Does Spiritual Formation Begin with Preaching?

[00:00:00] and I'll be joined by Kenneth Priest and just a moment on the topic of preaching and its

[00:00:16] influence on spiritual formation in our lives.

[00:00:21] But before we do, I want to invite you to the Calvary Global Network International Conference

[00:00:27] this year at Calvary Chapel Coast Amesa.

[00:00:30] June 23rd through the 26th.

[00:00:33] It's going to be awesome, we're studying first Peter, nine speakers, twelve workshops,

[00:00:39] children's ministry, dude.

[00:00:40] If you have children's ministry, needs it us up.

[00:00:43] We love it and there's much more.

[00:00:45] You can check that out at conference.calvarychapel.com.

[00:00:52] Also I would remind you that the STOKE IT UP podcast is a part of CG and media.

[00:00:58] Media that points to Christ, check us out at CG and media.org and now let's jump in

[00:01:06] to the conversation on how preaching influences us spiritually and forms us to live

[00:01:14] the Christian life.

[00:01:18] Well, alright Kenneth, good to see you again this week, how's everything going with

[00:01:22] you man?

[00:01:23] It's going well, how about you?

[00:01:25] Everything's good, I'm holding Texas up, you're holding up Georgia.

[00:01:30] I think the nation's in a good place.

[00:01:33] Ready to move forward.

[00:01:36] I was wondering if you would laugh at that.

[00:01:38] That's funny.

[00:01:39] Well, amen, well listen, we've been talking about spiritual formation and we're kind of

[00:01:46] entering through different topics.

[00:01:48] Today we're going to talk about spiritual formation and preaching.

[00:01:53] Next week we're going to talk about spiritual formation and small group life.

[00:02:00] Then after that, in light of I'm doing a new book and also just in general one-on-one

[00:02:07] or new believer follow up spiritual formation.

[00:02:11] By that we mean the things that form us into the image of Christ and disciple-making

[00:02:19] is involved in that.

[00:02:21] But let me set the conversation up with this and come out of the box with a question

[00:02:25] for you.

[00:02:26] I don't know if you remember this but I remember I told you years ago, but it's been

[00:02:32] a while.

[00:02:33] In my doctoral dissertation defense I went up there to Gordon Conwell, Haddon Robinson

[00:02:38] and Sid Buzzle from Colorado Christian University where my supervisors, and you know

[00:02:44] how you are with that man it's nerve-wracking.

[00:02:48] I remember making this statement.

[00:02:50] I said life change happens best in circles, not rose.

[00:02:58] And for those of you listening that don't know this already I apologize.

[00:03:01] I did my dissertation on reinforcing expository preaching using sermon-based small groups.

[00:03:08] I stumbled into that, we'll save that story for next week maybe.

[00:03:12] But I said there and said in a preaching track for a doctoral work with for doctoral

[00:03:20] work with Haddon Robinson I said life change best happens in circles not rose and you had to

[00:03:29] know and be around Robinson he kind of scowled in a very kind of like a general way like

[00:03:36] he's a general and the kingdom of God kind of way.

[00:03:39] He says tell that to the apostle Paul and what he meant was what are you talking about

[00:03:46] are you short-changing the role of preaching?

[00:03:49] And he went on to say yada don't forget about the book of Acts where preaching was

[00:03:56] a key part of disciple making and I then I've heard you mentioned it before.

[00:04:03] So today I wanted to explore the idea of preaching in the spiritual formation process.

[00:04:11] So let me jump right out of the box what do you think about this?

[00:04:15] I've heard you say can it disciple making begins in the pulpit I can't remember where

[00:04:20] I heard you say it but I know have heard you say it.

[00:04:23] What do you mean by that?

[00:04:25] You've heard me say it in more than one place because I've used that a lot.

[00:04:29] I just said it a couple of days ago so let's talk about someone.

[00:04:34] In reality the approach that I've taken and of course this was a part of my spiritual journey

[00:04:41] because I wasn't there 20 years ago but the journey that I was on in leading this process

[00:04:48] I just kind of came to this realization that if we're going to be serious about the

[00:04:54] disciple making it has to originate from the pulpit meaning the pastor is the one that begins

[00:05:02] to set the stage for disciple making in the church and I based mine off of your dissertation

[00:05:11] and my dissertation which I took mine as a spin-off of yours and I kind of focused more on

[00:05:20] focused on

[00:05:22] revitalization through mine but what I did was taking neomyachapter eight

[00:05:30] as well as going over look at the gospels it what Christ did and just kind of said makes it let's look at

[00:05:35] what was taken place you know you look at neomyachapter eight and Ezra opens they built them a pulpit

[00:05:42] right they built a platform for them to stand on in order to read the scriptures from

[00:05:49] and the entire people stand while he reads this is the proclamation of the word of God this is

[00:05:56] reaching and then if you read that text you go on through you know you're beginning their

[00:06:02] inverses one through ten it says that he names twelve men and he says and the Levites

[00:06:09] and they took and they broke the group's up and they went around and explained what was met by

[00:06:15] what was read and so you went from this proclamation to a crowd to a conversation that was in

[00:06:23] community and so this is where this kind of leading into next weeks you know the the sermon-based

[00:06:30] small group methodology and then from there they moved into a core because as you study

[00:06:36] on through neomyach you see that they actually began to celebrate a feast the had not been

[00:06:42] celebrating one there's actually a couple of feast a couple of minor feast that went with the

[00:06:46] major feast it was kind of back to back there and for the people of God at that time feasts originated

[00:06:54] out of the family context and so they were a familial setting for that and so it would have been

[00:07:00] the core which would have originated out of the family just due to feast and see in this crowd

[00:07:06] community core but it originated from the crowd it originates from the pulpit so it originates

[00:07:12] from the proclamation from the preaching and then it has to flow from there and so if discipleship

[00:07:19] were disciple making comes out of the pulpit it is the pastor setting the stage of this week

[00:07:28] here's what we're going to talk about here's what our theme is going to be here's what our text

[00:07:32] for the week is going to be and now what we do is a church body flows out of that in our small

[00:07:39] groups and our core groups and other discussions whatever we do is going to originate from this

[00:07:46] primary proclamation whether you're at a Saturday night or Sunday morning Sunday night

[00:07:52] the primary preaching opportunity of the church that's where it starts for our entire week of

[00:07:59] looking at this theme or text related to God's work. I love it I would say amen to that and

[00:08:11] I would say a couple things one what the question would be why why why does God choose to put

[00:08:19] preaching as a primary the primary place to originate disciple making in spiritual formation

[00:08:30] why then I would be going how in the world can you say that you're a religious education guy

[00:08:38] and first time I heard you say that I was taking it back I was in public somewhere and I was

[00:08:43] sitting over on the side and I was like did he just say that and I was like he said that

[00:08:49] and I was I was blown away I was I was taken it back and so I got me thinking about it

[00:08:55] and then I think of a number that Darrell Eldergees to put out he said 90% of pastors are not in a

[00:09:02] small group I asked him about a year ago I said is that number still the same Darrell and he said

[00:09:11] it's changed it's gotten better but he said not a lot better now the reason why I'm saying this I think

[00:09:16] the Lord wants to let me say it right I think the Lord wants to preface prioritize preaching

[00:09:25] through a God called man of God that came out wrong a God called man and he wants that person

[00:09:35] to have character first then I think you got to pay attention to preaching because preaching

[00:09:44] really models what we want people to see and do so if the preacher is character doesn't

[00:09:53] align up then the people are at some point are not going to respect it or if the preacher is not a

[00:10:00] good preacher or let's say the preachers and okay preacher but I think we need good preaching

[00:10:07] I don't think we need excellent preaching only God can do that but we don't be just okay preaching

[00:10:15] because it models through that person the gospel and a commitment to the word

[00:10:24] that the person will receive so let me switch it up a little bit let me ask you what what preachers

[00:10:33] have in your past when you think about your own spiritual journey and spiritual formation which

[00:10:39] preachers form due spiritually formed your Christianity the most or in unique ways well that's

[00:10:49] the difficulty right because again like I said you know 20 years ago I wasn't there

[00:10:56] and so you know if you would ask me 20 years ago I would have been like not a lot of preachers

[00:11:01] have been the model for me for spiritual formation and a lot of it had to do with the the model

[00:11:11] the style their way of preaching was just not something that you know fed me so to speak

[00:11:18] later in life I can look to the text and look to the preaching models and say okay you know

[00:11:24] clean something from this person and something from that person and it begins to have impact on

[00:11:29] spiritual formation so I can answer that today and say men like kin hymn pill right who is really

[00:11:38] solid in his theology stays focused on the word looks at original languages to make sure that

[00:11:47] that's the driving principle does not allow other people's interpretations to override translating

[00:12:00] the text right and what I mean about that is there's there's a lot of guys out there that you

[00:12:05] listen to that they want to quote others in their sermon and they're always telling you what

[00:12:14] someone else has said about the text instead of saying this is what the text says and so I

[00:12:23] appreciate that kin hymn pill says what you're supposed to text says you can add commentators

[00:12:30] in later you can say you know hey this is validated and backed up by men such as this but

[00:12:37] here's what the text says and so I've looked for people like that I've always appreciated that

[00:12:44] time thing and and you know there's you can clean things from from the late Charles Stanley

[00:12:50] Adrian Rogers these were great men that in their in their time have really delivered some

[00:12:59] great messages that we can get something from and hear from and have learned from them

[00:13:05] and their style of connecting with their congregation and with their people and their abilities

[00:13:11] to communicate effectively so those are all but even just you know the the pastor that nobody's ever heard of

[00:13:20] I really enjoyed the enjoy listening to these guys that are simply good solid

[00:13:27] expositional text driven preachers of God's word that again they're not spending a lot of

[00:13:33] time quoting others there's spending time really translating scripture and coming out and

[00:13:38] saying here's you know thus set the Lord here's what the Bible says and they've got the research to

[00:13:44] back up why that what they've they've translated is is the best translation but it's not

[00:13:54] them sitting up there and telling you what everybody else had to say about this text because quite

[00:14:00] honestly that just kind of gets a little confusing anyway when you start telling me what this

[00:14:05] person said and that person said and why this person disagrees with that person you've just kind

[00:14:11] of started chasing rabbits and it's not edifying for the congregation and you know I got a pause writing

[00:14:19] and pause like look the very first proclamation he was dealing with with speaking in tongues but his

[00:14:26] his life application for speaking in tongues is applicable for just speaking right the first

[00:14:33] proclamation of the word of God is the most important so don't tell me what all these other people are

[00:14:39] saying or or counter positioning tell me what the Bible says let that be the first proclamation

[00:14:46] and let's hear that and go from there so so that's the type of person that I'll look for the

[00:14:52] type of pastors that I prefer to hear from in order to to develop me to encourage me

[00:14:59] and to help me develop spiritually even on my journey today you know interesting one of the

[00:15:08] things going around the Calgary Chapel movement is you know if you don't have it an AW tozer quote

[00:15:15] you're not Calgary Chapel and then there's a there is a real simplicity Chuck Smith started it he basically

[00:15:25] said simply teach the Bible simply yeah I listened to a message the other day on first Samuel 14

[00:15:33] and I listened to it three times Chuck Smith was just anointed in this thing he he had a way of simply

[00:15:40] teaching the Bible simply he rarely used quotes he just would go down through the Bible the guy was

[00:15:48] excellent and I'll say this about you know here you got Ken Hempill what people don't say about

[00:15:56] Dr. Hempill very much is that he was a homiletician he really knows homiletics they're in his brain

[00:16:03] he just didn't talk about it a lot and it's not his knee-city chose but so was Chuck Smith

[00:16:10] I tell my Calvary brothers you know they tried to go well I'm just going to be like Chuck Smith and

[00:16:15] I'm just going to kind of go down the text if they call it Read and Rambal and basically we're saying

[00:16:22] these days Read and Rambal is not the way to do it Chuck Smith did it and he made it look right

[00:16:28] the rest of us are not Chuck Smith we're not Ken Hempill we're not

[00:16:34] B.U. I like what you saying and let me ask you this when you think now here we are

[00:16:41] get to get this a little controversy man not really controversy just interesting

[00:16:47] What kind of preaching best works for spiritual formation now this good sound like I'm

[00:16:54] I'm I have an agenda I really don't everybody I don't have an agenda but I'm wondering what you're thinking

[00:17:01] 20 some odd years later and the ministry what do you think, Ken?

[00:17:08] Well I come out of the thought of text driven preaching now if you say that you got to

[00:17:14] you know align when people say expository preaching oftentimes they want it to be text driven

[00:17:21] but even topical preaching can be text driven preaching

[00:17:26] The whole point of the text is you keep the text within context right and so this is not necessarily

[00:17:35] pulling two verses out of a paragraph and just preaching on those two verses

[00:17:40] You know that one of the things that draws me crazy is listening to a guy preaching on two verses

[00:17:45] and he's asking questions that are answered in the third verse that he hasn't read yet and he's not

[00:17:50] going to deal with it until next week right I'm like you're asking the question that's actually answered

[00:17:56] in the paragraph and everybody's going ahead and read that next verse they don't skip past it if

[00:18:02] they've got their bibles they've going ahead and read it they know it's sitting in front of them

[00:18:06] but you're not even touching it and so text true text driven preaching is you're preaching the

[00:18:11] sections the paragraphs and really dealing with that entirety of that text and not just pulling

[00:18:19] three words out of this one verse and spending 45 minutes on three words you're really dealing

[00:18:25] with that text within context and so that's what I mean by what I think is the the effective

[00:18:33] type of preaching for spiritual formation and you can you get exposition out of it you get top

[00:18:39] you can get topical out of it but it maintains a text driven perspective what are your thoughts

[00:18:45] your your all-for-team got enough of it I do have a answer but I want to I want to move us in

[00:18:54] and get us thinking for a minute because having not preached for two years I've been able to

[00:18:59] really listen I think the Lord has carved out a listening in me which has been good I agree with

[00:19:08] an expository approach and what I mean by that is what the Calvary Global Network guys would say

[00:19:13] a systematic approach through books of the Bible primarily doesn't mean there's never a textual

[00:19:19] sermon or it doesn't mean there's not a topical sermon there are times to do that I do think

[00:19:25] there are times to do that I wouldn't do that all the time I question I think systematic expository

[00:19:33] verse by verse now I would follow had in Robinson's idea of verse by verse which we asked

[00:19:40] had in Robinson one time what would John MacArthur say about what you do and he said

[00:19:45] John MacArthur wouldn't say I go verse by verse but it was interesting it was very interesting

[00:19:53] so this is a question and I've thought about this here we are now when we went to seminary

[00:19:58] really finished had us a read Rick Warren I like Rick Warren let me say that out front I like Rick

[00:20:06] I like Rick Warren this is not an anti-Rick Warren however Rick Warren and Bill

[00:20:12] Highibles were probably the two biggest topical preachers when we went into seminary

[00:20:20] I want to ask you this do I don't think topical preaching drives people

[00:20:27] to their own Bibles I think it's easy to sit and listen to the practical things but it does not

[00:20:34] leave I don't even at the brain my Bible to church I look back on it 20 some odd years later and

[00:20:41] I go I'm not I can't I don't think it formed me much if it did it was because I came to my seat with a

[00:20:49] prop excuse me with a yeah proposition that I believe the Bible and I had nothing to do with the

[00:21:00] whether the preacher use it or not but what I think where I've been formed the most is when I've

[00:21:05] gone to churches that were expository systematic or at the very least textual and what I mean by

[00:21:13] that is when you leave church if it's a topical textual sermon you're not saying this man they didn't

[00:21:20] use the Bible there wasn't enough Bible in that sermon yeah if if I say that I just go oh I hate

[00:21:28] that what do you think about what I'm saying the topical teaching has not driven people

[00:21:34] I don't think it's spiritually formed people well right yeah I hear what's in so the way

[00:21:39] I've looked at that in the past is there's there's the foundational forming of people and then

[00:21:46] there's the ongoing disciple making and so I won't name any names but having served on staff at a

[00:21:53] church where I was responsible for educational ministry and in the context of the community we had a

[00:22:03] secret driven church very much like a saddleback or will a great model very large church that was

[00:22:10] reaching people and they did that more topical approach and you know that's kind of that you know

[00:22:18] same thing you're saying you're like you know do they even use the Bible and there's you know

[00:22:21] they're starting with a text but do they even get to reading that text or they just talk about the text

[00:22:29] what I discovered was we had people that would end up within two or three years of receiving

[00:22:35] Christ and being a part of that church they would end up coming and joining our church because

[00:22:41] they got to a point in their journey where they said I need more and so with that having experiential

[00:22:49] background there what I learned was there is spiritual formation happening in those other churches

[00:22:56] but this is what Paul dealt with in the Bible of you're still drinking milk and you should be on the meat

[00:23:03] right and so questions have got to move beyond that at some point it is a foundational spiritual

[00:23:12] formation for you to be introduced to Christ and so a secret driven church serves a purpose

[00:23:19] in the spiritual journey for some people to get engaged with Christ that never would have gotten

[00:23:26] introduced to Christ in the other way but for them to stay in that context for 15 to 20 years

[00:23:34] they're likely not going any deeper if they've not learned been disciple been taught

[00:23:41] to go to God's word on their own in small group and community and core whatever methodology you're

[00:23:48] using to study it deeper and further and to know more and that's that that difficulty of knowing

[00:23:58] how effective is that church being at developing disciples for the future are they just developing

[00:24:09] a lot of you know that you hear it said you know some malwad and an inch deep has usually been

[00:24:15] the criticism and so figuring that pathway out from being an inch deep to go in even deeper is

[00:24:23] what the difficulty is in that context in my opinion hey I liked that I'm glad you said that

[00:24:31] spiritual formation happens into textual topical we don't mean to imply nothing's happening

[00:24:38] but I just looked back after all these years and I go I'm not sure that the topical method

[00:24:44] was based on people can't take you know heavy teaching or whatever I agree with that there's

[00:24:51] some expository teaching that's boring is all good out and it's too heavy I get that

[00:24:56] and then people aren't engaging the word they're either but I do think there's a good middle

[00:25:02] ground that you can find by being creative by I think you ought to drive people to the Bible because

[00:25:10] I how do I know if the preachers not using the Bible and the pulpit and when I say use it I mean

[00:25:17] actually this is what I love about the Calvary guys one of the things coming out of Southern

[00:25:21] Badrists like becoming a Calvary guy is I realized okay I'm probably more preaching than I am teaching

[00:25:29] and there's an element of that that I've had to learn and become comfortable with without losing

[00:25:35] myself because I know teachers that's all they do and they never preach the gospel and I want to go

[00:25:40] hello we're in charge it's an open it's an open church service there and it's a might have

[00:25:47] walked in here and these Jesus anyway sorry that's my soapbox I'm just thinking out loud about

[00:25:55] the kind of preaching that might work best in spiritual formation we do believe preaching forms people

[00:26:02] spiritually and we want to live our lives and have our ministry directed in such a way that

[00:26:09] the fruit of the ministry can be evident so speaking of that what kind of

[00:26:16] what kind of fruit would there be I've mentioned one I guess that there will be

[00:26:23] the sense of people will bring their Bibles I get concerned when I see people don't have to get a Bible out

[00:26:29] I just I don't know maybe I may be overthinking it or maybe I'm high per something

[00:26:35] what do you think was that fruit of knowing when when the pulpits mean effective forget the

[00:26:40] style when the pulpits mean effective what will be the fruit kind of yeah you know I kind of

[00:26:46] I'm kind of in that line where I really struggle with people not bringing God's word and opening it

[00:26:52] you know we rely too much on technology oh the verses on the screen I'm not going to open the Bible

[00:26:58] and you know the level of biblical illiteracy that that we get confronted with and it's in

[00:27:07] churches where the text is on the screen nobody's opening their Bible though and so they don't

[00:27:14] know where to find it in the Bible they don't know what's around in the Bible that's a real concern

[00:27:19] for me and the work that I've done in church revitalization I'm going to these churches that are

[00:27:26] like this and you know I'll find out the previous pastor never said open your Bible never

[00:27:31] encourage you to bring your Bible he's gonna put it on the screen he wants to make it easy for you

[00:27:36] it's it's been a real difficulty for me because when I try to do say look you should bring your Bible

[00:27:42] in fact Paul said only one or two people should speak everyone else should sit in judgment of

[00:27:48] what's being said and my assessment of that is you're supposed to open your word

[00:27:54] and be evaluating what I'm preaching so that if I say something that is erroneous

[00:27:59] that is mistaken that is out of line that doesn't make sense you've read the text yourself

[00:28:04] and you can come up afterwards and say hang on a second preacher this is what my Bible says now

[00:28:09] you tell me where you got that because your text stopped right there and you preached on that

[00:28:15] but right below there it says this you know let's deal with this and it's so hard it's a

[00:28:21] culture issue a church that that's been around for 25 years that it's existed with a pastor

[00:28:28] that never had you open your Bibles just put it on the screen and then someone going be

[00:28:35] yeah it's a culture shift and so and then you try to change you and somebody gets upset

[00:28:42] right and so you know I don't mind putting the text on the screen but I also want you to open

[00:28:47] your Bible and read it and be a part of that and I'm not trying to be hard knows and I'll

[00:28:50] try to be lead but I just believe that it's a part of your role as the person listening to the

[00:28:56] Proclamation to also have your Bible open and be reading and keeping up with and looking

[00:29:03] around before it and after it what was before this text and what was after this text

[00:29:08] that I may not have covered to make sure that you understand the text within context yourself.

[00:29:13] I think that's so important and accomplishing the disciple making process and spiritual

[00:29:20] formation in the life of the church and so what we're dealing with is how I can

[00:29:26] is what we're going back to this and we've been doing this this has been over the course of

[00:29:31] decades we're going back to a completely oratory culture in church which is where we were before

[00:29:42] the Gutenberg press right it was completely worth sorry and so the whole point of the press and

[00:29:50] you know the reference all this let's get the Bible in people's hands so that they can see

[00:29:56] for themselves and now we're kind of moving our society to go back and saying you don't need

[00:30:01] to read the Bible it's okay just let me tell you what it says and that's where pastoral abuse

[00:30:08] comes in spiritual abuse and you know that's a lack of spiritual formation in the life of the

[00:30:15] the pastor as well as the life of the congregation when that's taking place.

[00:30:20] I'm pretty sure that my philosophy these days follows North Coast church in Carl's Bay

[00:30:28] California they do not put put scripture on the screen now there are big outline church I don't

[00:30:35] know if you've watched them I mean they're big on outlined and they put the outline on the text

[00:30:41] but they expect people are going to get their Bibles out I've heard Larry Osmore and say we're not

[00:30:45] going to put it up there because we want you to have a Bible I really like that it also

[00:30:50] said it's a great example for the people around you and a worship gathering that they see you

[00:30:56] getting your Bible out then you know it may be one of those sermons but it's not required but

[00:31:01] you know what do it anyway another thing is the lighting may not be appropriate well that's where

[00:31:07] and I don't think we say this enough get your phone out turn your notifications off

[00:31:13] and just use your Bible turn the brightness down and actually use your phone I think when

[00:31:24] plant this church and get the preaching again I want to put a QR code up that says if you do

[00:31:29] not have the Bible out please I want to use language like pull your phone out get this

[00:31:34] get this app scan this if you're if you're someone that doesn't even know what a QR code is somebody

[00:31:39] around you will help you let's just take a moment to get this right because I want to value digital too

[00:31:44] yeah so I'm not doing that not do that yeah definitely it's not made that all the time she's like hey

[00:31:50] you're talking about just over your Bible but tell people to turn their devices on I mean

[00:31:54] you know I don't see it now I do think you ought to say turning your notifications off

[00:32:01] that way don't don't get on to anything don't get onto anything else how about this can it the first

[00:32:09] I think within the first 30 seconds to one minute of teaching I think the first 30 seconds you

[00:32:14] need to hear these words and churches open your Bible yeah yeah I just think you need to hear open

[00:32:21] your Bible sooner than later yeah even even when I try to say that pretty early we're going to be

[00:32:27] in loop 24 if you want to go ahead and open your Bible's to that and then I move into my illustration

[00:32:33] even if it's a three minute or four minute illustration I'm not going to read the text just yet

[00:32:38] but I've told them we're going to be I want them to go and open up to that text I try to remember

[00:32:43] to do that early on in the sermon because I do think it's important to get them ready to read

[00:32:51] let's let's take a minute or two and go just into a minute or two of over time here and give

[00:32:57] some advice to listeners just off the top of our head about what they can do

[00:33:03] either preaching or I'm a preacher but I sit under preaching almost every week now and what can we do

[00:33:10] so so what would what advice won't be one thing you would give a piece of advice to a person

[00:33:15] well the first piece of advice other than opening your Bible is is to pay attention to

[00:33:25] the major theme that is trying to be communicated through this so whether it's the title that's

[00:33:32] given it to you or the pastor said let my thesis today is this understand where he's going

[00:33:39] from the the major topic and make sure that you understand what he's trying to do today

[00:33:44] so that your heart is prepared and expecting to receive the right message for the day

[00:33:50] I like it I'll piggyback on that and say pray when you sit down to listen to your pastor teach

[00:33:57] the Bible and preach the gospel start praying and the more you get in that habit the better

[00:34:03] off you'll be what else can it give me give me one more well the the next one that I would give

[00:34:08] other than knowing where your text is going or know where the topic is going and praying

[00:34:17] is to whether you do it intentionally by writing it out or you're keeping track of it

[00:34:24] about what you do in your mind is you know track the outline if you can can rehearse that outline

[00:34:32] in your mind as well so you have the thesis statement and you have that outline going in your

[00:34:37] mind then that's going to be reinforced by the text as it's read when you're really listening

[00:34:44] to somebody's doing an expositional text driven preaching yeah that's excellent I was going to

[00:34:50] ask you if you take note do you take notes in church I typically don't my mind if I'm taking

[00:34:57] notes I have this problem at just educational developmentally if our taking notes

[00:35:03] I didn't have a clue what was actually being set up there I'm just writing down like I'm a

[00:35:09] tape recorder that's you know just recording everything's being said and so oftentimes I'm writing

[00:35:14] stuff down that's not even important I go back to what I want to ask you how about this when

[00:35:20] I'm not when someone's preaching are you working on your own message somewhere else in your mind

[00:35:25] I tell you I can't him pill he said this one time he said you know sometimes you're sitting there

[00:35:31] listening to somebody preach and you're like man I could do this better than this guy

[00:35:36] you gotta make sure you don't become guilty of that right yeah I agree you need to

[00:35:41] listen to what's being set up there Ken would laugh about it he's like sometimes you just

[00:35:47] gonna make yourself stop and pay attention to what this guy say and not worry about if you

[00:35:52] can preach it better than him you need to be right listening to say God what do you want me to

[00:35:59] get out of this message today and so that's what you want to do you want to focus on what is

[00:36:04] God want you to get out of the message you're hearing today. Name in name in well let's put a

[00:36:12] pen in it we'll pick it back up next week with small group life as the as an agent of spiritual

[00:36:19] formation of course this is a Calvary Global Network podcast follow CGM media and I'll put that

[00:36:27] in the show notes but you definitely want to follow the expositors collected we're going to be in

[00:36:33] Northern California and Pleasanton California on May 23rd in 24 and we would love to have you be

[00:36:42] a part of that if you haven't signed up yet it's so worth it you get 10 topics in about 24 hour

[00:36:48] period some of the best people are coming to teach we would love to see you there until next week

[00:36:55] God bless and Kenneth I'll see you soon brother we'll see you next week have a great week

[00:37:00] okay man