Prioritizing New Believer Follow-Up

[00:00:01] Welcome to the STOKE IT UP podcast everybody. A podcast encouraging you and your journey with God. I'm Alan Stoddard and I'm your host and I'll be joined by my co-host in just a moment kin of three to talk to you about new believer disciple making.

[00:00:16] I've got a new book coming out on July 12th. I'm very excited about that. And so we're going to dialogue some about the content of that book and the movement to help churches develop new believer, follow up.

[00:00:30] By the time you listen to this, I'll be at the Calvary Global Networks International Conference for pastors and leaders. We're going to be studying first Peter, Stunning tomorrow night. And if you're in the neighborhood, we would love to have you.

[00:00:46] You still might be able to go to conference.calvarychampol.com and register but if you can't come on by anyway and we can register you on this spot. Well, I'm excited about the conversation today. I would like to know what you think about this topic. Let us know.

[00:01:03] I'll meet you also next week where we're going to have these topics come in at you and in the near future. We're going to have an interview with Dr. Wayne Cooper. He graduated with a doctoral degree from Talbot Seminary on spiritual formation in the

[00:01:20] black church that is a very interesting conversation. And then after that, we'll be coming at you with a conversation with Dr. Shelby hazard on forced termination in churches and he did research within this other Baptist convention which we will apply to everybody.

[00:01:41] But then I've got another guest coming from another denominational well, not denominational okay, I'm giving it away. I asked Bill Holder to be with you and he said yes. I just got to get a plan out.

[00:01:51] We're going to have a cavalry chapel perspective on what it looks to be forced terminated. Well, all of that's coming your way. But let's jump into the conversation today on new believer follow up. Well, alright guys here we are another week here with Kenneth Priest, what's happening? Kenneth?

[00:02:15] Oh, not too much could be with you today, Alan as we soak it up again. Yeah man, well I'm glad we were able to recover the previous podcast and we've been recording some things in advance so that we can have something to post when we're traveling

[00:02:35] and not able to record. So we've let everybody know about that. But we're jumping in and following up on a three part series, had a two week break in and a two part series on spiritual formation from preaching small groups last week.

[00:02:53] And this week of course, I want to pick your brain and then promote a new book that I'm just now getting out July 12th will be the release day called new believer how to disciple new believers excited about that to say the least. Yeah.

[00:03:12] So what won't be your response to this statistic only one in ten new believers gets disciple after they're saved and baptized after the person crosses the line of eight only one in ten gets disciple. What would be your response to that? Just talk to talk to your head.

[00:03:31] Well, off the top of the head it would not be shocking for that to be the case because most churches do not know what to do with new believers. In fact, when you actually go do some some research for resources for what to use with

[00:03:49] new believers over the years it's kind of they they've fallen away. We used to have a material that was called, you know, next steps and it was just kind of a follow up a two week follow-up once someone was saved where he's supposed to do with them.

[00:04:06] But you know, with the loss of crusade of angelism work or the decline of crusade type of angelism work, next steps types of resources just do endowed and churches no longer had a plan or a strategy of what they needed to do.

[00:04:26] And so now it's kind of the, you know, oh, you get a new believer and we thaw them in Sunday school class and we say that's that's good enough. Let's we're done. We did what we're supposed to do.

[00:04:40] And so there's no strategy or too much now they said, you know, one in 10 would not be a shocking statistics to me. I always tell people if you run that number in any group in a church it will come out to prove itself true.

[00:04:57] There may be two or three more. I think the highest of ever seen was maybe 40 or 50, but even if you hit 60%. It's a terrible number still and that's what motivated me to write this book and go, let me get something out there that will help people.

[00:05:22] I've been doing it for 10 years now and I was discipling pastors and Zoom calls for the last year and a half. And I realized, wow, this is a big need. Pastors want to fill the need if you talk to them they want to fill it. Yeah.

[00:05:40] But they for some reason they just have not why do you think? Why do you, and I'm just asking me this, you didn't know this was coming. Why do you think churches and pastors do not have a strategy for new believer discipleship?

[00:06:00] Honestly, I just had this conversation with the director of missions this morning. I think the number one reason they don't have a strategy for it is because they don't have a strategy for reaching lost people.

[00:06:15] Why do I need new believer material if I don't plan on reaching someone with the gospel of Jesus Christ? Or if I do reach someone, it's a child and of course there's children's material out there.

[00:06:30] You know, life way and a number of people put together the new believers for kids. That's still around. But for as far as adults go, most pastors do not plan on reaching an adult for Christ.

[00:06:45] Therefore, why do they need a new believer strategy to use when reaching an adult? All right, so you're saying a lack of evangelism and that means I think I hear you saying because you're not going to evangelize. Why would you think about discipling people?

[00:07:07] So we're almost teaching people so full and I want, now let me make an admission. For 24 years I had no strategy for discipling new believers. Now when I say that, I don't mean there wasn't any relationship happening.

[00:07:29] I'm not saying that we brought babies home from the hospital and left them in the crib by themselves. I'm not saying that. We had, you know, we did what we could. Now, I guess the caveat though is

[00:07:44] say you and I, I know we're passionate about such things and I'm not trying to hate on anybody and I'm not trying to prop us up but we've had more influence in evangelism and discipleship than

[00:07:56] your average pastor. Absolutely. And I know that when we did these things and had no plan that followed what happened. And then relationship food Sunday school, hey look, the small groups, all of that counts. So so the premise is not that nothing is happening at all.

[00:08:22] Right. But the idea goes, go with that right. So you reach somebody and you put them where you have them or where you have a place that doesn't mean you actually have a strategy but you do have a place.

[00:08:37] And that's what you and I both have done for years is we found a place to put them. Because there was no other strategy. Again, we didn't have the resources available. We didn't

[00:08:49] take the time to develop our own until you developed this several years ago. And so that becomes the the the weight behind. In fact, that became the weight behind what you have done.

[00:09:02] This new book that you've got coming out in July for New Believer follow up what you've been coaching pastors do for the past couple of years via Zoom and even some in-person training you've

[00:09:12] been doing has been focused on this but it's because you looked and you were like way to second if I'm going to take the cycle making seriously then I've got to start with that baby and say what is

[00:09:25] that baby knee right. And so you went back to the drum board and you can discuss your strategy. I was just kind of mentioned from what I know about it but you know you're looking at what crude

[00:09:36] does, you're looking at what other organizations do and you're saying how can I meld this together to create a plan that Alan Stoddard can use? And then Alan that you're like man, if I can do it

[00:09:51] I can teach another guy to do it so why don't I put this together and help others when you started teaching guys to do it and all of a sudden they're eating it up because their desperate

[00:10:03] forth they're hungry for it because it is a need it's meaning a need and you're like okay I need to write this in a book and need to get this out there. And so you're meeting the need

[00:10:15] by doing that but that's what we've had a need that was an unmet need. There is a gap in our strat in our plan again it wasn't a strategy we just had a placeholder since we don't have a strategy

[00:10:29] let's put them in our small groups because at least we know they're going to be cared for. They're going to be ministered too they're not going to fall out and as low as they don't fall

[00:10:38] out they're getting something and we've talked about that in our in our other small group conversations when there's no strategy getting them into Sunday score small groups they're being fed something

[00:10:48] so it's better than nothing but the whole idea of what you're trying to do we've used this word before intentionality and so you want to take the intentionality for new believers and you're trying to take that to a new level that's what you've done in this resource.

[00:11:08] Yeah it's interesting pastors want to fill the need and you're right a lot has been co-related one challenge is that is to shorten the gap between desire and making it happen

[00:11:31] and I had heard this before but I had never given it much time in my mind and it's this pair of church ministries do certain things outside of the church because they can't do them inside

[00:11:47] the church. I used to hear that phrase and I would kind of kick back on it because I was like no you need to be running it through the local church and we need to be very loyal to the local

[00:11:59] church. I still believe that of course but now I have a renewed sense of appreciation for what they were saying because it is difficult to get churches and leaders and pastors to embrace the fact

[00:12:14] that they're not we're not doing anything for new believers or the other part okay let's make it easy let's go beyond the new members class and let's go beyond the discovery class those are good

[00:12:30] but there is simulation tools they're not discipling new believers right and then you can stretch it into a class could you do a new believers class now when I first became a Christian I remember somebody

[00:12:44] gave me a little book called Survival Kit and I actually saw one of those the other day of friend you mind had it and he was given it out to some new believers I was like oh man I've seen

[00:12:55] that thing before this is great and there's one or two other things that are kind of out there but really there's not a lot and what we found out is that most people are not going to do

[00:13:11] those workbooks but let's say they do let's say you put it in a class and you go we're going to do a four week okay maybe eight maybe eight week class room now I used to I've done this before actually

[00:13:27] but my point is this people need relationship and they meet it more decentralized than a classroom and I think that's one of the big reasons why we don't have anything because we're trying to treat

[00:13:43] it as an event in a classroom event atmosphere and the problem for a small church is you don't have enough newer younger believers to take through your strategy if you have a strategy and so

[00:13:59] you get demoralized because your classes are working when if you would break it down to just going okay we're going to do three people at a time and we're going to disciple them for four to eight months

[00:14:11] yeah and that's what I encourage people to do take it take it less people longer time now you've got a lot of fruit that can come out of that instead of oh we did our monthly class we didn't have

[00:14:25] enough people who came to know the Lord and get baptized or even prospects we don't have that and so now it looks like we're a failure yeah you're I just said a lot no you're absolutely right

[00:14:35] the classroom model it's not that it's bad but again you're you're talking a place to do something and not a strategy to engage with the person right and so when you're talking about it it's really

[00:14:50] an apples and oranges approach to disciple making and I you know and I talked about this in previous episodes you know the university model there's nothing wrong with the university model the model of disciple making we need that you do need classroom experiences to take place to help

[00:15:11] people develop their knowledge of the Bible but when we're talking about the cycle making it's not just knowledge of the Bible it's the the Clingania of the Bible and so that relational side that

[00:15:26] needs to engage and so when we start looking at that and looking at a true genuine intent and the original strategy then it has to move beyond the classroom has to move beyond the place

[00:15:40] to be the experience that goes along with disciple making and so and really and you know this it gets to be difficult to balance you know you start talking about experiencing God Henry Black of the experiential and some you know well meaning Christians get a little scared

[00:16:02] and they're saying oh you just you know you just talk about experiencing experiencing and you're not really dealing with the Bible when you talk about experiencing the Bible but the Bible is something to be experienced and something to know we know Jesus by studying the Bible

[00:16:18] but we experience the presence of God in our daily lives and we do this by reading the Bible and the spirit moving in our lives and you know we give a little some of us give a little

[00:16:29] scared of dealing with that whole experiencing the spirit and I know you and are going to do a series on spiritual gifts and we're going to bring in maybe an expert or two to talk about this whole

[00:16:41] true spiritual gifts what it means and understanding the the Greek there with that and and that is something we have to know how to experience the spirit in our life to experiences genuine coin and the a to experience genuine disciple making in God's word and so moving from

[00:17:00] place to intentional strategy takes us down that path and that's what we've got to be able to do and so yeah if I'm in a small church where you know bless us if we you know if we reach

[00:17:13] six or eight new people in a year that's something to celebrate because there's just not a lot of new people in our community and so to think that I can offer every month or every three months

[00:17:27] a class that's going to last six weeks or eight weeks and I'm going to be able to get all of those people saved at the same time and God wouldn't believe this class yeah it's it's not

[00:17:38] it's going to feel like a failure but if you approach it to say look I'm looking for one to three people to walk through this journey of disciple making over the next six months then when you reach that

[00:17:53] one or two you've got up and so then it's just about coordinating our calendars to say okay we're going to meet once a week twice a month whatever the model we put together that works for us

[00:18:08] and we're going to live life together during this journey to help you be a better disciple just like Jesus live life would 12 guys for three years so that they could be better disciples I mean

[00:18:23] that that's what we're talking about we're talking about really experiencing God in a unique way aside from we still look you're not saying be disciple about just going through this new believer

[00:18:37] course you're saying hey I want you in worship I want you in a small group but I'm also wanting to disciple you as a new believer right so this is it giving something up this is saying I

[00:18:51] want you to do the place as well because the place is important but this third experiential thing we're going to do is also important and I want you to be a part of that yes one of the unique things

[00:19:09] that I ran into I ran into a guy named John Burton about 12 years ago a primal intent and he worked for Bill Brigh and I I met him and he could tell I was a small group's guy

[00:19:25] sermon based small groups you and I were on the scene with that yeah and then he he really didn't push at all me but I heard him talking about discipling and I thought okay and so they

[00:19:39] took me up the Albuquerque he and another brother and I watched a couple of pastors who put it on a whiteboard and they took what John Burton learned from Bill Brigh with campus crusade for Christ

[00:19:54] and they developed it into a disciple driven evangelism equipped for two things happened I never had to say it discipling evangelism and usually we go evangelism and then we'll do disciples right but this is different this is discipling evangelism so that you actually know how to

[00:20:18] disciple someone else so there's three components to it which is a whittledown of Robert Coleman's eight things in his book and relational intentional and reproducible we relate to people and then we have intentional content which we call the internals but then we expect the new

[00:20:40] believer to give it away that's the that's the different pieces we equip the person the new believer I say newer younger believer because if there not to be a brand new believer

[00:20:50] my back up had mature believers who said hey can I do this I was never disciple and I'm like yeah sure jump in let's go for it and most most other things do not expect reproduction so

[00:21:09] if you ask your average pastor hey what do you do for follow-up the pastor is going to go well there's many ways to do it I get so frustrating with that because I'm going we know that already

[00:21:20] I'm not pleased I just can't tell you how frustrating I get with that and I get it they don't have a plan so they're trying to formulate an answer and then what will we say we'll give the Billy Graham

[00:21:31] answer well get them in the book a job we'll get them the read the book a job I'm not against the book a job I would still recommend the book a job but who's ever gonna sit down with that person

[00:21:41] and do a one-on-one one-on-two or one-on-three Peter James and John who's gonna sit down with that person to make sure the person understands the book of John and can actually reproduce any of the

[00:21:54] book of John that never happens that part never happens and and then pastors we we think that we're going to get our pay docked or something I mean nobody's in trouble no one's in trouble no one's

[00:22:07] trying to steal anything I'm just going please I'm just we're just showing you a and some pastors they don't embrace it and the ones that do though I can tell you I'm dealing with the church right now

[00:22:22] in mineral wells Texas Indian Creek Baptist Church do you know those guys do you have the church I know the church yeah I think they they know of you from when you were with this other

[00:22:33] Baptist of Texas Convention yeah I was out there I'm I'm I'm showing them how to do this and I've shown other other pastors the ones that embrace new believer discipling it ends up revolutionizing the spirit of their church almost right away yeah but the pastor has to come

[00:22:55] to a place to where he says okay we want to work and I ask him this I tell him up front you got to make the decision we're going to do this we're going to learn it and we're going to implement it church

[00:23:07] why right no man bothering nobody gets grandfathered in right yeah you brought up a couple of great points you know the thing about the Billy Graham model and putting people in the book

[00:23:18] of John their decision guides that they use uh and and their connection point in the local church their entire they have a strategy and their strategy is that that church is going to grab that person

[00:23:34] and take them through their two week disciple god so that they're understanding what they're reading in the book of John you know just to turn a new believer loose I say this to pastors

[00:23:47] all the time I'm consulting when you turn a new believer loose in the book of John what you're turning and loose on what were the very first words in the beginning was the word and the word

[00:23:59] was with god and the word was god and in the beginning the word was created through him who created all that what does this mean so a new believer some I know is nothing about the Bible has just been

[00:24:17] given this complex theological framework and this is where we tell people to begin understanding how to be a new believer and it's confusing it doesn't make any sense to them unless someone is walking them through and that's the whole point of the Billy Graham model is someone's walking

[00:24:39] them through this they're meeting with a god and that god is talking to them about what they're reading and the book the workbook they give them is you know fill in the blank and asking questions so

[00:24:51] that helps them understand what they're reading but you know pastors you know have kind of taken that through the years because again we've lost all of our resources we we we we we we we we're no longer

[00:25:03] supported resource wise for this and so pastors just remember oh Billy Graham uses the book of John that's what I'm gonna use you just got saved Alan go read John one and go to Sunday

[00:25:17] and you're like that does a help this person you're not walking them through the journey yeah what people we would agree and I say we because I wrote the book a much of the book is written

[00:25:31] with we yeah because I'm standing on the shoulders of people who have gone before me and the men and women who allowed us to disciple them primarily in New Mexico but not only there

[00:25:46] who I wanted their voices to be heard these are men and women that they gave us the time and it worked so so we we have this process of discipling what the most important thing is relationship

[00:26:02] we would agree with that people will say well there's many ways to do it I use Billy Sunday on him hey look what are you doing well you nothing that I'm gonna keep doing what we're doing because

[00:26:13] it's it's falling into our lab but you keep doing what you're doing and which is nothing and usually you know you remember Billy Sunday you know the lady came up and said

[00:26:24] I don't like the way you do evangelism and he said well how do you do it well I don't he goes well he did what I'm doing you keep doing what you're doing it's just it I found it very interesting

[00:26:37] that people will say there's many ways to do it when they have no strategy at all and it does nothing but help churches new believers they need relationship first that's what I'm trying to blah blah they do the relation and here's the thing and I want

[00:26:57] to admit this I did not pay attention to that for 20 plus years the way I should have it's not that I didn't pay attention to it it's the way that I should have I should have been way more decentralized

[00:27:10] way more relational thought smaller instead of trying to do it in a class and it would have help people actually faster it would have helped them get a lot further faster as new believers

[00:27:27] but but this the strategy that you've developed though is a natural progression of the overflow of the journey God has had you on it started with a sermon based small groups and really

[00:27:42] didn't start there it starts way back in seminary days with a focus on Sunday's rule moving into a desire for expositional preaching and your desire to get your doctor at there moving into a realization of the need to engage the sermon in the small group as a relational

[00:28:03] conversation together experientially participating in that at Car Stone where you start this young adult class and small group and do that if you look at it you you grew you had this natural progression

[00:28:19] that you can see happen the next logical step is to say wait a minute there's a piece of this puzzle that I've missed this entire top my entire journey and it goes all the way back to my point

[00:28:34] of of salvation who helped me you know who guided me in this process that's what's missing there needs to be a guide and so it's a natural progression of the journey that you've been on

[00:28:49] that moved you from from from big to bigger to small small smaller and it's really that whole idea of what I talk about in my model of sermon based small group is going from the crowd to the community

[00:29:02] to the core this is the journey you've been on as well we both been on this journey for decades and it's culminating now you know your your 60 years old you're sitting there going man

[00:29:16] God's have me on this journey for several decades and look at how all this is culminating coming together it makes sense and now you're the position to go help other pastors learn earlier from what you wish you would have known back then yeah amen any of yes

[00:29:35] and I'm sitting there thinking we don't intentionally not do it right exactly that's that is not what happens whatever's with a pastor and a lead leaders in the church is that we get busy with many many things and we're just trying to juggle those things and it

[00:29:53] becomes overwhelming and I'm very thankful for these days uh to come up with a strategy for new believer follow up and to get it out there want to encourage you uh listeners you don't have to just

[00:30:09] be a pastor to engage in this I'll tell you one of the best things to see is to see newer and or younger believers who who say I want to go through this what do you what do you do show me what you do

[00:30:23] and then they they see what we do and we tell them right up front this is not for you and they kind of give you this stare like what and we're like yeah this is for you but it's not

[00:30:32] for you it's for you yeah you're gonna grow but this is for you to give away we expect that you're gonna be able to disciple a new believer I asked the pastor one time I said could you

[00:30:45] disciple a new believer and he said that's a good question yeah and it's not an issue of could you cognitively we know that that's not the question what I'd ask and you know are you

[00:30:59] smarter than have to be a fifth grader we're asking do you have a strategy to where you could do it like off the top of your head that's kind of genius of this and and I'm only getting it all

[00:31:11] comes from campus who say for Christ we don't use any books other than the Bible with new believers for the first year yeah we we don't want them to have to do any workbooks we don't want them to

[00:31:21] have to feel like they got to do homework we just say we're gonna stick with you for one year it may not take a year but by the time you travel and by the time holidays come up and listen that

[00:31:32] another topic's come up we wanted make sure that you can give it back and it's very basic form so that if God puts another new believer in your life the new believer is actually able to disciple

[00:31:45] these basics only the basics now but the basics into another another person which is part of the beauty this is is yeah if you're in a class format then you're expecting everyone to grow at the

[00:32:01] same pace but the beauty of this is you're helping people grow at their pace no that's right let me admit compassion for a lot of time I did not think like that I just thought come

[00:32:19] listen to me teach I'll teach you yeah and I did not do what you just described I did not have that sensitivity built into me as a pastor and as a Christian I just didn't know to do that I didn't

[00:32:34] know you could take one year and then I was like oh man I asked the guys one time can if I said how long when I first learned this on a they got on a whiteboard two and a half hours I took notes

[00:32:45] I said how long to take they said it takes a year I started laughing out loud I was like yeah it's funny y'all are funny and those serious how long to take and they were not laughing at all

[00:32:57] it was Dave and Rick Britain you know those and I was like why aren't y'all laughing what's wrong and they said it takes a year and then it hit me oh no I'm thinking like a pastor I'm thinking

[00:33:14] let's get six weeks get it off our plate and that way we can be better than we can say we did it that's kind of a course way of saying that but it's got a little truth to it it does yeah well my

[00:33:27] encouragement Allen for anybody that's listening is they need to grab your book and of course when this podcast release it will be just a couple weeks after this podcast release that the book would be available probably available for pre-order the day this podcast release it'll

[00:33:44] probably be available on Amazon to go in pre-order your copies but not just to get the book and read it but man consider putting together a group of pastors in your community and a group of

[00:33:56] leaders get Allen on a zoom call if you're at a position that you can bring him in you need to bring him in let him talk to your people you know don't keep it to yourself don't keep it to just

[00:34:09] your church man this this needs to be a regional deal that this is a need that has been lacking in churches across North America and we've got to return our churches to discipling people beginning

[00:34:24] at birth and taking them through this process so a disciple making evangelism strategies exactly what this is and what it needs to be yeah he meant I loved the way you just said that thank you

[00:34:41] promo the book and I'm excited you know very excited this is a great great season for this new believer follow up everybody we want you to just consider it and to give it a place of prayer

[00:34:55] and your heart in mind and see what's up you know in the fall I can tell you this I'm going to do two different zoom calls in the fall one is going to be for Christians who just want to go through

[00:35:06] it I'm going to be willing to do a zoom call this for Christians not not for pastors and then do another one for pastors for anybody that says I'll do this I can show you how to do it in a zoom call

[00:35:18] and about four months pastors pick up on it fast because they've already been through so many evangelism yeah and discipleship things that none of it's new to them it's only the nuance and strategy

[00:35:28] that's new and fresh the content itself we could talk about that maybe on another episode some other time what the content is but the content's not new yeah that's great well look thanks for

[00:35:43] the conversation on new believer follow up that's all really hot on my heart and I know it's always hot on years were present and thanks for interacting with me on it can absolutely any any final words

[00:35:56] before we come out I've already given my final word man get get the book engage with you make this a priority in the life of your church if you're if you're not reaching people

[00:36:07] this will help you to develop a strategy to reach people so that you can use it as well yeah and let me throw out for any church out there we we're willing to help you it doesn't

[00:36:21] even have to be that we but all into your business but anything with small groups and new believer follow up right now and there's other things even we're we're available if you'll reach out

[00:36:32] and ask for just some advice and wisdom advice on whatever we are totally available that's one of the reasons why we do this podcast is to encourage people in their ministry and absolutely

[00:36:44] like God well guys God bless we'll see you next week we've got some special episodes coming your way on spiritual formation you're going to be surprised I'm not going to tell you now you'll just have to wait but we'll see you next week God bless and great week