203. Is the Bible Out of Date?

[00:00:00] Welcome friends to another episode of Making Disciples. My name is Chris Rogers and I'm

[00:00:13] your host, it's really lovely to you have some time if you today. I hope you're doing

[00:00:18] alright and I hope that you are blessed and encouraged and if you're not encouraged

[00:00:23] I hope this episode today will encourage you so we've been looking at questions from listeners

[00:00:29] and as I've been covering more of these questions that the listeners send in, I seem to get

[00:00:35] more you know listeners go oh well answer me this question then so that's what we're

[00:00:39] going to do today. We can ask another question, another question that comes from you guys

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[00:01:15] though that we'll get through to the team and then that will make it to me. Now today's

[00:01:18] question I loved this, I just want to solve this, it says this, I was asked the question

[00:01:22] is the Bible out of date, why should I follow it? Even follow it even the bits that are

[00:01:28] horrible, even the bits that are horrible. And I thought what a great question let's try

[00:01:36] handling that one today so is the Bible out of date so that's what we're going to look

[00:01:40] at, that's what we're going to explore so we'll dive in in a minute. More warm welcome

[00:01:47] to you if you are one of our new listeners that have joined recently. Warm, warm welcome

[00:01:53] to you is so good to have you with us. Now let me just tell you about this podcast, this

[00:01:56] podcast is a discipleship podcast. We look at topics of discipleship things that will help

[00:02:00] us follow Jesus, Jesus being the blueprint of our lives and sometimes his disciples

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[00:02:22] areas that we might say this is important to our discipleship, our heads, our hands and

[00:02:27] our heart. So different episodes will explore different topics. I guess today you could

[00:02:31] say that this topic of is the Bible out of date yes it's going to be definitely head

[00:02:37] as we think about learning some stuff but I also think it's about your heart coming

[00:02:42] to this place of going wow I do need to let God's book really speaking to my life and

[00:02:48] transform me. So I really hope that that is something that you you find encouraged by today.

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[00:03:31] this is Easter 2024 if you want to listen to this in order that is more than fine Jill.

[00:03:36] Spring Harvest with the largest Bible conferences in the week it's coming up this Easter and that

[00:03:41] means that my full attention is on what God is doing there in preparation for that do hold

[00:03:46] us in prayers we approach it and then I'm going to have a few weeks off after Easter as well

[00:03:51] so we're going to hold back the podcast then until kind of post Easter and then we'll come back

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[00:04:02] in for the summer Tim then we will have time now to prepare for some of those so if you would like

[00:04:07] to ask a question like the one we've got today send it in ASAP and we can have a look at taking on

[00:04:13] some of those questions for the term after Easter into the summer term. So for those time being as

[00:04:18] we talk about is the Bible out of date why should I follow it even the bits that are horrible

[00:04:32] let's dive in friends and explore this question about the Bible and I think it's a really good one

[00:04:38] because I do do sometimes myself read sessions you know parts of the Bible and you think to yourself

[00:04:46] what the heck am I really meant to do something with this is this is this not just so archaic

[00:04:55] that actually it's got no relationship or bearing on my life and then the next question from

[00:05:00] that is well if this Bible passage here is out of date then it's the whole thing out of date

[00:05:05] and therefore do you abandon the whole thing and it's a really good question and I want to speak

[00:05:10] into that because I think I want to give us confidence that the word of God is not out of date

[00:05:20] but has to be handled in a certain way to help us understand how to engage with it

[00:05:25] because I think the danger is sometimes we approach the Bible as if it's like a dictionary

[00:05:32] you know with a dictionary the first word in that dictionary has a definition and then you

[00:05:39] know that definition at the beginning of the book is factually correct and therefore that's how you

[00:05:44] you now use that word in light of that definition in the same way as the last word in the book

[00:05:50] you would be reading oh well that's a fact because that's the definition of that word

[00:05:55] and well the Bible doesn't work like that because the Bible essentially is like a dictionary

[00:06:01] over time say and that you have the Old Testament and New Testament so you've got a sense of time

[00:06:08] and over that time you and I know that the use of words change and over time the definition of

[00:06:16] words would change and therefore if we were to read a dictionary from the 1800s a dictionary

[00:06:22] from today we would know that word has changed and therefore we would know that word from the 1800s

[00:06:29] that may not be the most helpful dictionary definition of that time because time has changed

[00:06:35] culture has changed use of words have changed and in the same way with the Bible the Bible is set

[00:06:41] over time and because it's over periods of time and it's speaking into the cultures of those times

[00:06:48] the thing is we've got to understand those cultures and understand what the Bible is saying

[00:06:52] and although it's factually correct from the beginning to end and it is truth

[00:06:57] we must understand that in the context of that period of time it might have meant something specific

[00:07:03] that culture has now changed and we understand it differently so anyway I want to explore this

[00:07:07] because is the Bible out of date? See out of date isn't really interesting phrase that we might

[00:07:16] use the Bible is out of date in the same way you might see that that tin of baked beans there

[00:07:21] that tin is out of date you say it's no longer good for consumption because it's out of date if

[00:07:30] you consume that bit of beans it will make you sick in the same way some people would approach the

[00:07:35] Bible and say well actually the Bible is out of date therefore if you consume it it's going to make

[00:07:40] you sick you you are going to have twisted views of humanity because you're reading that text

[00:07:47] and I'll say no I took the phrase out of date is not helpful at all the Bible is definitely an old book

[00:08:00] okay but it is still as relevant today as it was the day that it was first written or the sections

[00:08:07] of each part of it were written it is not out of date but it has great present value

[00:08:15] what we have to do is understand what it was saying at the time it was saying it and understand

[00:08:23] is that thing there now meant to be applied today exactly the way it was then or

[00:08:31] is there something that's changed it so for example the Old Testament will talk about not eating

[00:08:36] meat from animals with cleft hooves pig but actually then by the New Testament the book of Acts

[00:08:43] Peter is told what God has made holy can be consumed so we know there was a change so if you were

[00:08:49] to take that Bible passage in the Old Testament but you are not to eat an animal with cleft hooves

[00:08:54] you would go this is definitely out of date the bacon like we you know the fact this passage

[00:08:59] you can't eat bacon is out of date well actually we've took therefore we have to understand what he

[00:09:04] said when and where it plays its part in the big god story because scripture is what I would

[00:09:11] describe as the liberating truth scripture is moving us from one liberated moment to the next

[00:09:18] liberating moment from sin to freedom okay from a place of oppression to a place of liberation so

[00:09:27] we've got to understand what is being said when it's being said as anything further been said on

[00:09:32] this topic than what I have just read for us to then come to some conclusions on what I now do with

[00:09:37] this so is he out of date no not at all it has great present value can have confidence in that the

[00:09:45] word of God isn't changing but sometimes we do need to understand what is being said when so

[00:09:51] let's just explore a few examples so you can we can get ahead around this a little bit so these are

[00:09:56] examples I have been given in the last year or so where people have said come on Chris

[00:10:01] liberate because 19 so some bits of Leviticus 19 don't seem to make much sense for us today for

[00:10:10] example it says in Leviticus that if you have a tent with mold on it then you are to burn

[00:10:18] that that tent with mold on and we'd go well actually can't I just spray it down with some

[00:10:24] antibacteria cleaner can I not spray with anti-mold and clean it up well yes we can at the time they

[00:10:32] didn't have that so that's why it says this is scripture you know if you've got a tent molding

[00:10:36] your tent so therefore for instance we make a judgment of some passages and we say hang on

[00:10:41] is this something that's no longer noteworthy we've moved on things are a bit different

[00:10:46] or is it still apply today now what what is the fundamental message that that passage is talking

[00:10:52] about that passage was being written to a group of people that lived in the wilderness if you've

[00:10:56] got molding your tent your tent got damp a mold grew it would grow or flood around the entire

[00:11:03] tent your tent before you would know it is covered in mold so you had to do something about it some

[00:11:08] things need to be dealt with and they need to be dealt with fast because if not it will take over

[00:11:16] so the question with some of these things is what's the application what was it trying to communicate

[00:11:22] even though that exact exact example no longer exists for us what is the truth that we can apply

[00:11:28] another example that it looks often out of date says in Psalm 137 verse 9 happy is the one who

[00:11:34] sees is your infants and dashes them against the rocks what happy sometimes translated as blessed

[00:11:43] blessed is the one who sees is your children and smashes their heads against the rocks like surely

[00:11:48] that doesn't make any sense friends that example 137 it's a Psalm written by somebody

[00:11:55] who has been taken from Jerusalem their spirits are broken and they feel like the world is falling

[00:12:02] apart and they're speaking about the cruel methods that had been used by other humans to destroy

[00:12:08] somebody else's world and sometimes what would happen is if you came and you terrorised a village

[00:12:16] what you might do is kill the husbands in front their wives and their infants or the children

[00:12:21] or you might kill the wife in front of the husband or the mum and dad in front of the child

[00:12:27] and sometimes what they would do is they'd take a helpless infant and they'd remove it from the

[00:12:32] nursing mother and they would hold each feet and dash its head against the rocks and kill it

[00:12:37] in front of the mum what that was about was about human beings who use horrendous mechanisms and

[00:12:44] means to spread vengeance and hate against other human beings so what the psalmist is doing is using

[00:12:51] an example of something that happened at the time and he says you know these people this is how they

[00:12:56] behave happy is the one you know who sees as your infants as smashes against the rock because that's

[00:13:02] what it looks like if you are somebody who's having everything taken away from you it looks

[00:13:07] like the person that's taken it away that they're thoroughly enjoying themselves and they're using

[00:13:12] this to control you so to understand some of these passages we need to understand the context what

[00:13:17] was happening and how that phrase theology why is it being used in that way why is the right to

[00:13:22] using that phraseology in that that way we need to understand these things give you another example

[00:13:27] I'm going to give you a bunch of examples so what about Genesis 22 when in Genesis 22 we told

[00:13:32] Abraham and Sarah have a little boy called Isaac when Isaac grows slightly older we told that

[00:13:41] in Genesis 22 that God tells Abraham to take his son and to sacrifice him to God as an act of worship

[00:13:52] we told that Abraham takes his son up to the top of the mountain and on the stone goes to sacrifice

[00:14:00] his son but in the moment just moments before the sacrifice that actually a lamb comes along and

[00:14:09] that Abraham uses that animal as the sacrifice God's God provided the sacrifice rather than the son

[00:14:17] now we read that and go how could Abraham have done that how could Abraham have treated his son

[00:14:25] such a way that is abuse now we read that that is abuse now to understand the passage we need to

[00:14:32] understand that every other God around at that time in some shape or form had entertained the idea of

[00:14:40] child sacrifice and there were specific gods at that time that loved child sacrifice and what we see

[00:14:49] here is Yahweh says to Abraham like all the gods that around when you take your son sacrifice your

[00:14:57] son to me as an act of dedication and worship and Abraham falls go through with it why would he

[00:15:03] go through it because that's what the king and I gods expected at that moment it's time that's

[00:15:09] what God did so Abraham doesn't even question it and we get to this point where Abraham is about

[00:15:14] to make the sacrifice and God says hang on I'm going to give a sacrifice myself I'm going to give you

[00:15:22] a sacrifice so you don't give your son I will provide for the sacrifice now we know that's

[00:15:27] no no no no we went to Jesus but I think what is happening here is it's like the teaching of Yahweh

[00:15:34] of God is that everybody else is doing this child sacrifice I'm going to pull things forward

[00:15:41] and I'm going to become the God who provides the sacrifice you don't need to provide your child

[00:15:46] I will provide the sacrifice so you can imagine it's like God's pulling things forward

[00:15:52] so God's moving away from this child sacrifice system that the other gods had and he's moving to

[00:16:00] now a sacrifice system that involved an animal as time goes by we then end up with Jesus as

[00:16:06] the perfect sacrifice so to understand Abraham we need to understand the context what was happening

[00:16:12] and why this is liberating in that culture why is this now more liberating than what was there before

[00:16:21] couple more examples of difficult passages Matthew 5 38 42 talks about Jesus' teaching and Jesus

[00:16:28] says if somebody slaps you on your right cheek turns them off for them on your left cheek and we

[00:16:32] can read that go what Jesus this is so like old school um what is this and actually to understand

[00:16:39] some of Jesus' teaching we need to understand why Jesus' teaching was radical in the moment

[00:16:44] that he was spoken now there is a podcast episode on that when we looked at the series on the

[00:16:50] sermon on the mount you might want to go earlier into 2023 and listen to that episode for about

[00:16:55] about Matthew 5 38 because what looks like Jesus endorsing if somebody hits you let them hit you

[00:17:02] again actually that's not what Jesus is endorsing at all he's talking about standing up for yourself

[00:17:08] but he doesn't look like that when we read it because we don't understand the context of what was

[00:17:12] happening at the time so sometimes we don't see the liberating truth we don't see the radicalness

[00:17:18] of that passage um why not just read this as well because this came to me recently was

[00:17:26] from Exodus 21 where it says this if anybody beats their male or female slave with a rod

[00:17:32] must be punished if the slave dies so if you have a slave and you beat them and they die

[00:17:37] then that you who beat them to death you should be beaten to death too but they are not to be

[00:17:43] punished if the slavery covers after a day or two since the slave is their property you read that

[00:17:48] go what how can the Bible be endorsing slavery how can that be true now we have to understand

[00:18:00] that scripture is always pulling us forwards at the time that Exodus 21 was returned slavery existed

[00:18:09] but what Exodus is telling the slave masters to do is if you have a slave and you beat them to death

[00:18:17] um like in the past that would have been alright because they're your slave but actually if you

[00:18:21] beat your slave to death then that's murder and for the first time it was announced that if you

[00:18:28] kill your slave then you two need to be killed because you've taken a man's life that was a liberating

[00:18:34] truth at the time previously if you could beat your slave to death we know consequence now there's

[00:18:39] now there's consequences of your behavior towards your slave now if you track with the Bible

[00:18:44] right through to the very end to Ephesians 6 we find in Ephesians 6 Paul writes about slaves and

[00:18:51] masters except when Paul writes about slaves and masters he says slaves you guys you have got

[00:18:57] to submit to your masters and work hard for them and then when it talks to the masters it says

[00:19:03] masters you do the same same for yourself in other words masters you must submit yourself to your

[00:19:09] slaves it does not give any permission in Ephesians 6 to beat them up it in fact cruelty is spoken

[00:19:15] against so there is this movement towards liberation so what we have to ask ourselves is when we read

[00:19:21] the Bible are we reading something from the Old Testament that now in the New Testament we find

[00:19:28] new teaching that shows us how we are moving forwards from oppression to justice

[00:19:36] from slavery to freedom so you cannot quote things from the Old Testament without also

[00:19:43] quoting from what is in the New Testament to get a picture of what actually is being said

[00:19:49] I so often have people quote things from the Old Testament at me is if that is the last word

[00:19:57] on that topic then I go well it's interesting isn't it what Jesus says in the sermon on the

[00:20:01] mail so is Jesus wrong or is Jesus moving us towards a new liberated future so that that is one

[00:20:09] of things I want to talk about is the Bible out of date depends on where you look depends on

[00:20:13] where you look and where you finish looking the people that tell me the Bible's out of date what

[00:20:17] they have often done is they've left it with one Bible passage and they've not looked at a number

[00:20:22] of Bible passages to see how there's a narrative forming and how there's this liberation happening

[00:20:28] across the whole of scripture so we need to remember that the Bible is a product of each time

[00:20:35] it's time but this does not mean its teachings cannot be applied that actually there is a narrative

[00:20:41] going on it's not a real see when people say Bible is a rule book then in a rule book the rules

[00:20:46] at the beginning and the rules at the end have the same weight don't they know rule book but actually

[00:20:52] if you have a narrative story then actually you've got to understand the end of the story to

[00:20:57] understand what we are doing with the rules that we find within it do these rules still apply

[00:21:03] has things changed or is there a new liberating truth that we've got to grab hold of here so

[00:21:08] we need to remember that the Bible is a product of its time this does not mean its teachings

[00:21:12] out of date at all it means that they still can be applied sometimes surface reading of scripture

[00:21:19] will lead us to a poor understanding so if you only read something from the Old Testament

[00:21:25] you may end up with a poor poor understanding of God's vision for something and to understand

[00:21:31] its context is key and to understand how we're to understand it within the time that it was said

[00:21:40] is really important okay I want to just help us understand this this sense of time and liberation

[00:21:48] as there's a line of theological thinking and the way I describe it as the forward pull of

[00:21:55] liberation and I want you to imagine for a second a line chart a vertical line chart so a line chart

[00:22:02] is on the left hand side you've got one set of markings no number say number one to ten across

[00:22:11] the bottom you've got maybe time so you know we set us zero on the left hand side as it travels

[00:22:19] across the chart you have the tracking of time what I see in scripture is Genesis chapter one

[00:22:27] is like it's on on the zero on time and it's on the zero of liberation women coming out of men

[00:22:37] daughters being owned by their fathers and as time goes by we see more liberation happening so

[00:22:47] as time goes by the line on the chart goes up on the liberation front so by the time we get to

[00:22:58] you know a number of thousand years into scripture what we find is girls can no longer be sold for pennies

[00:23:06] they now need to be sold for a proper price because they have a value then you later in scripture

[00:23:13] find that girls cannot be sold because they're not owned then you find women like Deborah who

[00:23:20] become leaders of God's people and then you find in the New Testament that Jesus has women at his

[00:23:26] feet learning as disciples then you find the first people to hear about the risen Christ is a

[00:23:33] woman the first evangelist is a woman then you find in Paul that Paul is endorsing women

[00:23:40] planting churches with Lydia such like so now women can plant churches and lead so you have this

[00:23:49] as time goes by liberation goes up so that the forward pull of liberation the Bible might seem

[00:23:58] out of date to us but to understand it we need to understand that over time there is a radical

[00:24:06] ness in scripture and the Bible's pulling us forward to the next liberating moment so there's

[00:24:13] like a trajectory that is created in scripture that we continue to live out that liberation okay

[00:24:21] so what do we need to remember about the Bible what do I want to say I want to say four things

[00:24:29] very briefly four things that we need to remember about the Bible number one the Bible is a timeless

[00:24:35] truth a timeless truth the Bible contains timeless principles and teachings about human nature

[00:24:42] morality in ethics and it crosses culture and it crosses generations so the Bible is timeless

[00:24:52] but the Bible does not help us with all the topics that we have to navigate so for example

[00:24:58] atomic bombs are not mentioned in the Bible hang on Christ I thought you said it was timeless

[00:25:04] well it is timeless because the Bible tells us that we have to seek justice that we seek mercy

[00:25:13] that we seek compassion and then we seek the sanctity of life we see Jesus when Peter cuts off

[00:25:21] the soldier's ear Jesus heals it because he's like no violence is not the way forward here Peter

[00:25:30] so the Bible doesn't mention atomic bombs but it does mention these timeless truths that we

[00:25:36] have to live by and therefore we can say to ourselves well actually is the atomic bomb what God

[00:25:43] wants for humanity because we know that it's about justice mercy compassion the sanctity of life

[00:25:49] and therefore is this a godly thing so the Bible is a timeless truth and we have to look to apply

[00:25:57] those timeless truths to the ever-changing culture that we find ourselves in second thing so

[00:26:04] timeless secondly it's a continuing relevance to our lives the Bible is a living text

[00:26:12] that has been interpreted and reinterpreted by scholars and theologians over thousands and

[00:26:20] thousands of years so we are able to interpret scripture and light of the culture that we are in now

[00:26:26] culture does not dictate how we interpret scripture but we imply scripture to culture

[00:26:36] and it can help us navigate the culture that we are in so the Bible has continuing relevance

[00:26:46] but it only has a continuing relevance if we continually apply it to our lives

[00:26:54] and to the contexts that we are in i'm going to just underline something really

[00:26:59] point i just said it i'm going to say again culture does not allow us to dictate scripture

[00:27:05] on what we take from it scripture isn't changing but to understand scripture yes we need our culture

[00:27:12] but we also need to make sure that scripture is informing us on how we navigate culture okay so

[00:27:20] as a continuing relevance but we have to continually interpret it for the culture that we are in

[00:27:29] timeless continuing friends it's historically accurate you know the archaeological evidence

[00:27:37] for scripture is incredible it's a historical document about historical people and places

[00:27:47] and the figures and the people and the places mentioned the Bible can be found with archaeological

[00:27:55] evidence that helps us realize that the the Bible is historically accurate it accounts for God's story

[00:28:05] beautifully okay so we have to realize that yes the Bible is timeless yes it's continually

[00:28:12] needing to be interpreted but it's historically correct there's there's enough evidence in archaeology

[00:28:19] that helps us see that the scripture is right now scripture has its way of interpreting events

[00:28:26] and interpreting events in a particular way but it's still factually correct in the sense of

[00:28:32] what it is trying to communicate timeless continuing it's historical and then it's a revelation

[00:28:41] God speaks through this book you know it is a lump to my feet friends it tells us who we are

[00:28:49] we're sinless saved by grace it tells us who's we are we are here's the kings it tells us what we are

[00:28:57] we are forgiven and it tells us what we are for partnership with God so this book has continued

[00:29:05] revelation to us in who's we are sorry it tells us who we are who's we are what we are and what

[00:29:17] we are for that's what this book does with sinless saved by grace we belong to the king we are

[00:29:23] forgiven we're in partnership with him the Bible is crying out that truth so it's a book that has

[00:29:30] revelation for us in who we are so even if you sat there and said christian but it's all

[00:29:36] historically correct you know there's there's everything there there's contradictions in there

[00:29:41] I would still say yes but God still reveals himself through this text God hasn't written this text

[00:29:47] off therefore we shouldn't now hang on christ you say there's contradictions in the Bible no I am not

[00:29:52] saying there's contradictions sometimes what it's perceived to be a contradiction is because over time

[00:29:58] something changed and therefore it looks like something from the beginning or something from

[00:30:02] the end is a contradiction sometimes it's simply that a writer like the gospel writer has made

[00:30:07] tell us something in a slightly different order because of the story mechanism that they're using so

[00:30:12] just Jesus wise it's writing to Jerusalem the beginning of his ministry or like John does he

[00:30:17] writing to Jerusalem at the end of his ministry what we're not meant to do is I think ask for

[00:30:23] self-aware did he write in which is factually correct I think they're both right as a telling us

[00:30:27] something from their perspective and the fact that Jesus wise in Jerusalem at a particular point

[00:30:31] the story is about their narrative it's not a contradiction we need to understand the writing

[00:30:36] style that it's speaking from so timeless continuing historical revelation is the Bible out of date

[00:30:45] no not at all it's not out of date if we're able to interpret it and understand its meaning

[00:30:52] to help us navigate life better it is not a rule book whenever people say the Bible is a rule but

[00:30:58] I'm like seriously you have misunderstood the Bible it's the Bible is a narrative story of God's

[00:31:05] people having revealed to them the goodness of God and him showing them their part in the creative

[00:31:11] story of God and that we're reading this story working out how we now play the next part of

[00:31:18] that script even though we don't have the script is the Bible out of date no so we approach

[00:31:25] the scriptures as a liberating truth that he's setting up a particular time that we're

[00:31:32] gleaning wisdom from that helps us now navigate the future of what it means to be a disciple of Jesus

[00:31:38] in light of what we have been told God wants from us in light of what Jesus tells us what he wants

[00:31:45] and in the center what the spirit is saying and doing through his church in it and therefore

[00:31:52] we can now navigate the world ahead of us because we know the story we know the plot we know

[00:31:58] God desires and therefore we're living it out so he's out of date not at all is it an old book

[00:32:06] yes it is is it filled with old stories absolutely it is but they are timeless

[00:32:14] truths and it's the story of God's liberation so if we want to know what it looks like for the

[00:32:20] liberating truth of God the gospel to get working our lives today we need to go back and see

[00:32:25] what the liberation this gospel was doing two thousand years ago to understand what it now does

[00:32:31] for us today so I hope that makes some sense to us because there's quite a lot in there

[00:32:38] I'd love to hear your thoughts on that as well if there is anything that you would like to add

[00:32:43] into that I would be really really interested do find me on twitter or instagram as at rabbi

[00:32:49] rogers friends until next time grace and peace and I encourage you pick up the scriptures read

[00:32:57] the Bible it really will feed your soul be a lamp to your feet grace a piece

[00:33:13] you