201. Interview with Adrian Semerene On The Topic Of Humility

[00:00:00] Hi friends, welcome to another episode of Making Disciples. My name is Chris and I'm

[00:00:13] your host. In today's episode we are going to have an interview with Adrian Sermerini,

[00:00:20] great name, is from Gambling Gay Baptist Charge and a few months back at a conference

[00:00:28] across fresh dreams, an amazing conference and I just have so much fun, I was there speaking

[00:00:34] and he was also one of the speakers on the final day. He was talking about unity which is

[00:00:38] a topic I'd love to interview him on again in the future but I just thought he had

[00:00:43] a really interesting approach to discipleship and what it means for us to live our lives

[00:00:50] wholeheartedly for Jesus and wanted to talk to him really around humility and you know

[00:00:57] as disciples what does humility look like? How do we live out humility and it was just

[00:01:05] such a fantastic conversation so I hope that this interview with Adrian is such a blessing

[00:01:11] to you as it was to me to spend some time with him and talk about humility. So I'm not

[00:01:16] going to do a massive preamble, we'll jump in in a second but big thank you to you the

[00:01:20] listeners for joining and spending a bit of time with us today. If you've yet to subscribe

[00:01:26] then I'd love to encourage you to do that so we have so many people listen to this podcast

[00:01:31] who don't subscribe which means that you know you don't have it paying up on your phone

[00:01:36] when the next episode is out. I'd love you to do that and you know have the next addition

[00:01:42] appear on your device or whatever way you listen to this podcast so please do think

[00:01:46] about subscribing. Not so this for a little while but you know do recommend this podcast

[00:01:51] to friends as well, people don't just stumble upon podcasts they're recommended to them

[00:01:54] so I'd love to encourage you to recommend this podcast to people anybody who's growing

[00:01:58] as a disciple of Jesus do encourage them to listen in on this podcast. So let's jump

[00:02:04] in interview with Adrian Semarini and we're going to have a conversation around humility.

[00:02:10] Adrian thank you so much for spending some time with us on making

[00:02:24] these disciples. Now I heard you speak a few weeks ago at a conference I thought this

[00:02:28] guy has really got some interesting stuff to say around discipleship and then I emailed

[00:02:32] you and said you know what topics would you like to cover and you said well one would be

[00:02:38] on humility nobody has ever said to me let's talk about humility.

[00:02:44] Well I mean first of all thank you for having me but second of all yeah I'd imagine it's

[00:02:49] a topic that most of us don't like to talk about because as soon as we bring it up we're

[00:02:54] automatically considered as not humble or usually when people want to talk about it they

[00:02:59] talk about it. You know how I've achieved humility and you have to follow which is in

[00:03:03] itself a contradiction so but I do think humility is key to discipleship I do think humility

[00:03:10] is key to what we see in the life of Jesus what we see there were that we should be modeling

[00:03:17] out that we should be leading through that we should be following in but I don't I agree

[00:03:22] it's not something that there's a few books out there some people have written some you know

[00:03:28] Archie Kendall has one there's a recent one by a gentleman called Paul friend who's with

[00:03:32] swim and he's written one called freer humility and they're great but I don't think there's enough

[00:03:38] out there and I one of the things that really interests me is I don't think there's a real theological

[00:03:44] study of humility I think there's a lack of a theology of humility if you will which I think is key

[00:03:49] and I'd be interesting it'd be interesting to me to see what develops over the next kind of

[00:03:54] five ten years in that in the field because it's key I believe to being a disciple.

[00:04:00] Right that's where I want to start so yeah this is a podcast all about discipleship

[00:04:05] you just said it's key to discipleship why why why is this an important issue and particularly

[00:04:13] from the aspects of you know what is your understanding of discipleship you know how do you talk

[00:04:19] about what this is yeah no so I think discipleship ultimately comes down to being formed in the

[00:04:28] likeness of Jesus to essentially follow him you know he is our leader he is the example obviously

[00:04:36] he's the rabbi to those actual disciples to start with and so I think discipleship is really

[00:04:44] teaching or learning depending on if we're the disciple or the discipleer right depending on the

[00:04:49] but it's it's being taught or learning how to live a life like that of Jesus and the reason I think

[00:04:55] humility is key is because I think you know when Jesus walked the earth he has got embodied he knows

[00:05:01] everything he you know he has every answer beginning in the end yet the way he approaches

[00:05:05] every conversation the way he approaches the woman at the well the way he approaches his own 12

[00:05:10] the way he approaches you know those absolutely stuck in in in seeing those who are possessed across

[00:05:17] the board he never approaches them even though he is God and even though there are moments in scripture

[00:05:21] where he goes hey I am he who you are speaking of he always comes out in such a humble servant loving

[00:05:29] way one of the reasons you know that many of the Jews at the time did not recognize Jesus as the

[00:05:34] Messiah was because they were expecting this you know big powerful leader to come with all my tongue

[00:05:40] you know and take down the empire and he comes subverging all of that so in this kind of subversive

[00:05:47] calm humble way and I think part of that is one of the reasons that people didn't recognize it he's

[00:05:51] too humble he's too that he's not the one he's not the guy but actually in I mean you know we see him

[00:05:58] washing the disciples feet and oftentimes that that accountant scripture is so looked at and spoken of

[00:06:06] as a you know how we should be serving one another it's all about service and yes there is that

[00:06:12] obviously very clearly there but I also think there's a sense of Jesus humbling himself

[00:06:19] you know lowering himself before his disciples and saying hey as I serve you

[00:06:23] I'm going to humble myself and he did so even to the one who would betray him like you know even to

[00:06:30] those who are perhaps seen as against him he's like I'm going to serve and I'm going to do it in a humble

[00:06:34] way and so I think when we talk about what it looks like for us to walk like Jesus talk like Jesus

[00:06:40] love like Jesus serve like Jesus humility has to be a big part of that and when you look at

[00:06:47] the flip side of perhaps where there are most tensions among brothers and sisters you know

[00:06:52] denominational divides theological divides I might disagree with you on some theological topics

[00:07:00] you know we might agree perfectly on things but but if we can come add a conversation humbly

[00:07:05] recognizing that there are potentially some non-negotiables for me you know that who Jesus is

[00:07:10] is a pretty non-negotiable but then there's other things throughout history that perhaps we have

[00:07:14] disagreed on which come down to interpretation and can I humbly come to a table and have a

[00:07:21] conversation with you in my discipleship in your discipleship and recognizing that we're not

[00:07:26] fully formed here we're not fully there go okay well how can we have these conversations and

[00:07:32] move forward in a way that we are united and so it links in with unity it links in with discipleship

[00:07:36] and all these things but I'm rambling a bit so there you go no it's good I I have been grown up in

[00:07:41] a charismatic slightly more conservative background discipleship for me was always a kid was

[00:07:50] always about doing the stuff that Jesus did so we learned a lot about prayer ministry we learned a

[00:07:56] lot about serving like the washing of the feet but when it came to character there was less

[00:08:05] interest in that and it seems to me that actually the character stuff feeds into the start of all

[00:08:14] the other things you know jeez the way that Jesus approaches the woman at the well like you just said

[00:08:19] and so it's we're talking about character here character formation into the likeness of Jesus not

[00:08:24] just theological formation or practice formation but actually at the start if our character isn't

[00:08:32] centered around Jesus we could be doing all the right stuff in terms of prayer ministry and

[00:08:36] and serving the poor but if our character is not right we can be arrogant in our serving arrogance

[00:08:45] in our prayer and then we get arrogant in time people what they shouldn't do because we know best

[00:08:51] yeah and you know yes part part of that confidence but actually it's character isn't it that

[00:08:56] 100% I think 100% and I think more and more we see you know part of people's ministerial

[00:09:03] formation includes that of you know character building and things like that but I think

[00:09:07] historically it's probably not being our big focus um the big focus has been have you have you

[00:09:13] gone and studied your scriptures do you know them do you have your you know doctrine of this doctrine

[00:09:18] of that whatever maybe that's what we've formed our leadership on and our discipleship on

[00:09:23] um and I think so often again you know I love Jesus greatest commandment is to love God with all

[00:09:29] of our heart mind soul and strength and we tend to pick that apart I think I think we tend to

[00:09:35] find the things that we like uh and maybe agree with and hold on to this so when those of us who

[00:09:40] are more academically minded love God with all of your mind great I can I can study him and I could

[00:09:45] go for it and I can go all there well all of my strength well those of us who have energy and will

[00:09:50] give it and will serve and will serve and will serve and all of our art right what does that look

[00:09:55] like what what does it look like to actually emotionally love God and be able to humble myself

[00:10:00] emotionally to others all of our soul that spiritual side of things where actually there is a call

[00:10:04] to to inner prayer ministry love God and then all of these things I think you know Francis Chan

[00:10:10] years and years ago wrote a book called Erasing Hell so nothing about what we're talking about now

[00:10:16] but before he wrote the book and he was writing it kind of to maybe maybe almost as a counter to a

[00:10:22] book that was written by somebody else that was kind of theologically questioned at the time

[00:10:26] and you know you can dig into more than if you want but he released this video because he obviously

[00:10:30] has a you know big following and people and and this video was him simply asking people to pray for

[00:10:37] him and and he very visually kind of said hey you know what as I'm approaching my study of this

[00:10:43] view of what comes next after life what comes you know past our death I am approaching it with a

[00:10:49] certain level of understanding you know place my hand at my eye level for example I am there

[00:10:55] but God's understanding will always be heads and heads and heads miles above my head

[00:11:01] and I want you an a's like I'm praying I ask you would pray for me that as my understanding

[00:11:05] gets closer and grows closer to that of God's that I would never think I have it so figured out

[00:11:10] that my understanding is that above God that I've fluctuated that he is knows less than I do

[00:11:17] and I think so often in some of our understandings whether it be theological or how to serve

[00:11:23] how to pray we get to the point where we're like oh right I've cracked it this is the way we do it

[00:11:28] this is it's my way I've finally had it whether it be through divine revelation or through teaching

[00:11:33] and so my way is the only way we're actually I think we need to recognize that God's way is the

[00:11:39] only way and how God connects with all of us from different cultures from different backgrounds

[00:11:45] all of us his people made in his image though we look physically different that we actually you know

[00:11:51] emotionally different we're all his that he's made so somehow we have to recognize that he is

[00:11:56] above all and that I'm still trying to play catch up to that and will be until the day I die I'm

[00:12:01] past that you know I'm never going to be more I have more understanding than God and if I can

[00:12:06] have that mentality in my conversation with someone who's just come to faith or someone who's

[00:12:10] got three PhDs or someone who's been preaching from platforms across the world whatever situation I'm

[00:12:18] in if I can have that mentality of God's God's got it and I think this is where I'm at now this

[00:12:22] is a revelation my understanding my journeying thus far however there's a chance I've got some of

[00:12:28] this wrong there's a chance that maybe I've still got to learn some stuff so let me hold that

[00:12:34] with this with a sense of God of saying God you do with me what you want but let's go forward

[00:12:40] I like that I like that the opposite of humility is pride yeah pride is so subtle

[00:12:52] and I've I've seen in others because it's always easy to point out in others so it must also be in

[00:13:00] me but I've seen those who think they are being humble but in their humility there's pride in

[00:13:10] their humility yeah and there's there's pride in how they you know I may come humbly at something

[00:13:21] but I know what I know this is right and it's pride is subtle isn't it it's so subtle and it's

[00:13:29] almost like little weeds in the garden that really hard to pull out absolutely you pull one

[00:13:36] out here and there's another one over there how do we deal with that when it's just riddled within

[00:13:44] our makeup how do we root it out well I think in part you you started kind of answering your own

[00:13:55] question and which is hey it's really it's easy to point it out in others and it's harder to

[00:13:59] point it out in oneself and so part of the way we root it out is we journey with those that are

[00:14:06] part of our tribe you know I love that Jesus had his 12 and from his 12 he had his 3 and from his

[00:14:10] 3 and the one and you know but within that you know we as as disciples ourselves as we disciple

[00:14:17] others need to have people that we give permission to that we journey with that if they say hey you

[00:14:23] know what someone you know there's a few in in my tribe if you will that if they pull this I go

[00:14:27] Adrian let's have a real chat like I love you love that you love Jesus but you've gotten this

[00:14:31] wrong you're building yourself up this isn't about the kingdom this is about you this isn't about

[00:14:35] others I need to be able there are people in my life that I need that if they say that I almost

[00:14:40] don't question it almost got to take it yes okay right we are journeying this together unless I

[00:14:46] fully think on like oh my goodness there's something then now I'm not there might be some pushback

[00:14:50] but we have to journey these things together we have to go hold on there's somebody else

[00:14:54] is seeing in me something that isn't of Jesus I need to humble myself enough to say okay what is

[00:15:02] it you're not seeing and then saying how did I get here you know I think that's part of part of

[00:15:07] that analysis of going you know one of the one of the greatest quotes is that you know the the

[00:15:13] the enemy doesn't always lie 100% he'll give you 99% truth and 1% lie and that that little

[00:15:20] 1% buys you in you know you buy into that 1% of a line and you it's this little from there

[00:15:24] you've suddenly gone way off of where you want it to and I think being able to reflect back and go

[00:15:29] okay well what was it that led me down this I thought I was being humble I thought I was serving

[00:15:34] as I was called to and now suddenly I'm not but I think in in everything I think not only is it

[00:15:41] journeying with people it's also just having a posture change um you know we see Jesus as this

[00:15:47] servant leader and we talk of him as a servant leader but I think that that servant can almost be

[00:15:53] replaced with humble leader um we often talk about you know the leaders that we have and

[00:15:59] and who were called to be and how were called to lead but if in our leadership we don't have

[00:16:03] that posture change to be able to lower ourselves on a regular basis um and have people around us

[00:16:10] you know to lower us then again I think we're missing something if we go down 10 15 years down the

[00:16:16] line of whether it be ministry or family life or whatever as disciples were everywhere and whatever

[00:16:21] workplace were in and whatever um church that we're serving in if we go down all this time and

[00:16:26] and we're never seeing ourselves changed and challenged then something's wrong um one of the

[00:16:32] questions I ask in of our church on a regular basis is do you look more like Jesus today than

[00:16:37] you did yesterday um you might not be able to see the change from yesterday to today but okay what

[00:16:42] about last year are you more like Jesus today than you were last year have you humbly walked in

[00:16:47] forgiveness to those who you've really struggled to forgive have you humbly walked in service to

[00:16:52] those who you don't really want to serve have you humbly um allowed someone else to speak into your

[00:16:57] life and call you out on your sin on your addictions on your journeys um and have you been honest with

[00:17:03] yourself have you humbled yourself before God and let him speak into your situations um one of the

[00:17:10] things that I battle with and those who are listening won't be able to know because but you see me

[00:17:14] I'm a big guy I'm a really not just tall guy I'm a you know hugable larger than life kind of guy um

[00:17:22] but one of the things I talk about is that you know I didn't get to this size um just by chance you

[00:17:27] know one of the sins that I battle on a regular basis is out of gluttony um and that's one of the

[00:17:35] sins that for some reason our culture doesn't call out it's it's okay so it's almost taboo to

[00:17:39] speak of it and I've walked into churches I've walked into places where they're like oh you're just

[00:17:43] big bone Adrian I'm like with respect my gut is not a bone you know so so we have to have again

[00:17:52] people now if everybody walked up to me and said Adrian your fat get on it I'm like whoa okay hold on

[00:17:56] there's a way there's a but that is it's not just a it's not just a healthy though it does affect

[00:18:02] my health it's not just a lifestyle thing though it is part of that it's a it's a sin thing

[00:18:06] it's a spiritual formation thing that actually I need to recognize that is one of the things I

[00:18:11] battle and one of my sins so I need to give people permission to call me on it and it needs to

[00:18:15] people to walk alongside me and when I have been in quotes my fittest is when I've had those people

[00:18:22] walk alongside me um and almost hold my hand it almost treat me like a child when it comes to

[00:18:27] Adrian you don't need to eat that come on get out for a walk come on jump on your bike because

[00:18:31] actually that's perhaps part of my walk of faith where I'm still a bit of a baby Christian you

[00:18:36] know my that that sin still has deep roots in me and I've had people pray and I've had people

[00:18:40] but we're journeying it I have to be humble enough uh and again talking about humility here I

[00:18:45] am giving an example we're perhaps you know it's it's such a contradictory don't hear this in a

[00:18:49] prideful way but I have to be humble enough to let those around me say Adrian mate this is not

[00:18:55] you're not hungry you don't need this with your body doesn't need it this is an act of

[00:18:59] gluttony this is this is you stepping into sin step away and I need to allow people to do that

[00:19:05] and whether your sin is gluttony or whether it's addictions to alcohol or pornography or any other

[00:19:10] thing we need to just allow people to speak into our lives and hold our hands do it if we need to

[00:19:17] yeah have you do you know how to Adam Savage Mythbusters yeah yeah yeah so evens a YouTube

[00:19:23] channel called tested and I'm you know I'm a paid up subscriber you know he does these interviews

[00:19:30] you can ask questions and one of the um one of the subscribers asked the question of him of them

[00:19:36] I was watching a episode of Mythbusters from about 17 years ago and you were smoking in the

[00:19:41] episode do you still smoke uh and you think it's a good idea to be seen in the public to smoke

[00:19:47] you know I love your thoughts and that kind of thing and Adam said well actually for years I was on

[00:19:51] off on off on off smoker until 15 years ago when I stopped he said the the reason I stopped

[00:19:58] was for years I'd been trying to be a person who was stopping smoking I was just trying to stop

[00:20:03] smoking and I realized 15 years ago I had to to stop being somebody who's trying to stop smoking

[00:20:09] and I had to be somebody who was now a non-smoker so he said 15 years ago I became a non-smoker

[00:20:16] and that radically changed because I was no longer trying to stop something I was becoming something

[00:20:21] and I love that really struck me I was like wow all says take off greed take off ride take off take

[00:20:31] all these you take off and then he says put on Christ you know saying Christ that's shorthand

[00:20:37] isn't it for the attributes of Jesus Christ and I love that Adam Savage has just preached something

[00:20:43] I just thought he's wonderful so I'm listening to you and I'm thinking yeah we could be saying to

[00:20:48] people now you need to be less prideful but actually the approach is we need to become more humble

[00:20:55] yeah and that's what we see that's what we see in scriptures well I mean you talk about Paul

[00:21:01] but it's over and over and I put some of the scriptures up just to kind of quickly refer to them

[00:21:04] but in Ephesians 4 you know as a president of the Lord I urge you to live a life worthy of the

[00:21:09] calling you have received be completely humble and gentle be patient airing with one another in love

[00:21:15] make every effort to keep you in the spirit through the bond of peace like over and over he talks

[00:21:21] about humility in philipians he says the same thing do nothing out of selfish ambition of

[00:21:26] Enchanteed rather in humility value others above yourselves not looking to your own interests but

[00:21:32] each of you to the interest of the others like repeatedly we all again often times like you

[00:21:38] were saying we would look at oh well scripture says don't be prideful it it does but more often

[00:21:43] than not we see the encouragement to be humble then we do don't be proud don't be okay yes but

[00:21:50] actually be humble step into that and I think we love to we love to step into so many of the other

[00:21:55] things love your neighbor serve this do that but humility because it's hard it's hard to step into

[00:22:02] humility it's not something that that people want to do um and and the thing is oftentimes you

[00:22:07] confuse humility with putting ourselves down right we like if I'm going to be humble oh I'm so

[00:22:12] rubbish I'm so not worth it I'm so no no no you are still a child that got made in the image of

[00:22:18] Christ like gifted poured out the spirit poured out for you poured into you like oh my goodness you are

[00:22:23] flipping awesome yet you are called to be humble um yeah there's no one else like you Chris

[00:22:31] there's no one else like you there is only one Chris Rogers I say there's only one eight to like

[00:22:36] we can we can talk about how unique we are how beautifully crafted we are how different we are

[00:22:40] how special and the less we are because it's all true and that can easily become something

[00:22:46] that we boast about that we're proud pride pride filled about though we're overly proud about

[00:22:52] but the reality is as well those things are true we are called to just simply be humble

[00:22:55] to win the humility value others above us to humbly serve and humbly love and I think that's

[00:23:02] that's key it's becoming humble let me ask a question then so I've got lots of friends who in

[00:23:08] their workplaces the game is not humility the game is to push yourself above others to step on others

[00:23:16] to to use others to get where you are going and there'll be some people listening to this going

[00:23:22] yeah this sounds amazing but actually where I work if I manifested humility all that will happen

[00:23:29] to me as I get trud upon and seen as somebody who's weak now we know the kingdom is upside down

[00:23:35] upside down kingdom and the kingdom of God what we see as weakness is strength we know that but

[00:23:41] practicing that Monday through Friday in your workplace can't be very difficult do you have any

[00:23:47] thoughts on how somebody who's in a stressful work environment where humility is used as a weapon

[00:23:55] to hold people back how do we act humbly in those places whilst at the same time not

[00:24:04] becoming somebody that's walked upon yeah I mean that's a great question and I think there's no

[00:24:11] one answer that one size fiddle answer um I think one of the things that we have to be reminded

[00:24:18] of on a regular basis regardless of where we work or what our our life placement is is that following

[00:24:25] Jesus is costly um I think so often we have talked about a a gospel that is amazing and we've

[00:24:33] talked about this grace you know Bonhoeffer talks about this cheap grace I think that that we've

[00:24:37] almost been sold where you can just receive it and that's it and I but the reality is is that

[00:24:43] following Jesus isn't cheap it is costly and it is difficult and painful and it is also counter

[00:24:49] cultural and so the first thing I say if you're in a place where you know you you're stuck in the

[00:24:56] rat race perhaps your job is one of those where you can't actually seek humility you can't actually

[00:25:01] be like that because it's in his weakness the first thing I'd ask is to maybe just take a step back

[00:25:06] and ask yourself what is your priority in your workplace um if your priority in your workplace

[00:25:12] is to be number one and it's to make money and whatever it may be dot dot dot then following the

[00:25:18] way of Jesus being a disciple in that place is gonna be incredibly difficult and you might almost

[00:25:23] disregard everything we're saying but if your priority in your workplace is to love God with all

[00:25:28] of your heart minds all in strength um to love your neighbors yourself if if our priorities in

[00:25:32] our workplaces are the same as they are in a Sunday morning in church if our priority is the same

[00:25:37] from Monday through Sunday then and this is gonna be hard to say and hard to you know hard to listen

[00:25:43] to but then actually for priorities out of Jesus then we have to recognize that that might come

[00:25:48] with challenge and difficulty so actually it might be uncomfortable to step in humility

[00:25:53] and again humility isn't putting yourself down it is it is essentially walking humbling going hey

[00:25:59] this is where I'm presenting this is what I'm doing I think this is the best way if others have

[00:26:03] another idea okay I'll walk with you but this is it so it's not shutting down your voice it's not

[00:26:07] not being heard but it's how we present those things but ultimately knowing that if you are again

[00:26:13] if you're being seen this week there is still a moment of not throwing in the face of what I

[00:26:17] like I'm humbly saying that this is you know because then that becomes a pride field but I think

[00:26:22] there's there's a space in actually how we how we step into that moment to say again I believe

[00:26:28] this is the best solution that you know quarter four sales are gonna be up because of this if we do

[00:26:32] do this this is the other I think you're wrong okay I respectfully disagree but if you're the one

[00:26:37] we're gonna follow then let's follow that but you know let's go that that itself is a humble thing

[00:26:42] to say hey I've made myself heard I've made myself known but I will follow another but but again

[00:26:49] humility and you gotta recognize that we're also talking about humility in terms of following

[00:26:52] that of Jesus and we're also talking about a worldly job perhaps which is not following that of Jesus

[00:26:57] so again where's the priority is our priority to be more Jesus like in that space which which will

[00:27:02] then be and hey we're gonna we're gonna get down on our knees and wash the feet of those around us

[00:27:07] or is it gonna be hey I'm just gonna I'm gonna leave for my own career a bit of and that's an

[00:27:11] unpopular statement and I get that and it's also very difficult statement and I get that

[00:27:16] and this is coming from a guy who works for the church so some people would be like oh you've

[00:27:19] got an easy Adrian like you know you don't have to face all those things and you're right in one

[00:27:24] sense I don't but I actually face them often enough through these kind of conversations with people

[00:27:30] where where I sit down across a coffee table with someone like man this is what I'm facing at work

[00:27:34] and I don't know what to do and I don't know how to process it and I don't know what my next steps

[00:27:38] are and in all of these things my answer is always gonna be well actually let's just look to Jesus

[00:27:43] you know how how would he humbly walk in this how would he serve in this and ultimately for anyone

[00:27:48] listening the decision is yours you know that is the beautiful thing about it you don't have to

[00:27:54] listen to some random guy in the middle of nowhere village called gambling gay you don't have to

[00:27:57] listen to Chris you don't have to and ultimately you don't even have to listen to Jesus we hope

[00:28:02] you do but he is gracious enough to give us that free will so we got we've got a few minutes left

[00:28:09] yeah so you said earlier to be really interesting when I'll come back to there's you know we said

[00:28:13] to what you don't really have much of a theology of humility like how would you how would you

[00:28:19] start to think about what a theology of humility is well so I guess one of the things I mean

[00:28:27] specifically around that is that we have kind of our doctrinal statements or direct doctrinal views

[00:28:32] around certain aspects of theology whether it be women in ministry or sexuality or salvation or

[00:28:38] you know baptism and things like that but none of us have a view of humility that we have unpacked

[00:28:46] enough that we have taken time I would say to really hold on to we just see humility as a good virtue

[00:28:53] as a good value to have so I think realistically to unpack a theology of humility we need to look at

[00:29:01] humility across that a scripture and recognizing that it is everywhere I think from Genesis

[00:29:07] through to Revelation there is the word humble or humility may not be in it but the way

[00:29:13] God speaks of our role of his people within that there is much in that so I think we have to start

[00:29:21] kind of tackling the study of hey what is it what is where what are we pulling out what are we seeing

[00:29:25] across the board and recognizing the tent the kind of the the links and the ties between them all

[00:29:30] and then I think from that formation coming to a point where we can say there's something really

[00:29:34] symbolic really key to our discipleship to our ministry to life in general that we I think have been

[00:29:42] missing for for bear I say millennia perhaps because we haven't really dug into it yeah I love looking

[00:29:50] back at Genesis one two and three when it comes to humility because I think a theology humility

[00:29:56] starts in before we even existed God was he's on in charge yeah we are made in his image not him in

[00:30:05] our image yeah we're called to tend dress and care for creation yet we ate the apple we did

[00:30:14] the very thing we were told not to do and at the heart of a theology of humility I wrote down this

[00:30:21] strategy you know is it is defining humility as total dependence on God yeah when we have a right

[00:30:29] understanding of the position of humanity in terms of God and creation then we can then understand

[00:30:38] how we are to be an act underneath that when you don't believe in that then there is no need for

[00:30:46] humanity because it's a it's the battle for the fittest it's you know winner takes it all

[00:30:53] but when we see ourselves as a part of God's plan in his image his creation to partner and

[00:31:01] tend creation with him actually our position is a very humbling position absolutely why would God

[00:31:10] ever want to work with us why would you but yet he does and that for me is at the heart of what

[00:31:18] somehow it in all of that that's where that the heart and theology of humility comes from

[00:31:24] it's from who we are designed to be like absolutely I think we're I think I think genuinely speaking

[00:31:31] one of the reasons it's so core to our discipleship is because it's like you're saying it is part

[00:31:36] of our creation it is part of what we were made to be you know a couple decades ago one of the most

[00:31:41] popular wristbands and little phrases was wjd you know what would Jesus do and I know it's cheesy

[00:31:47] and I know it's corny but I think actually if in if you know a day today decisions we

[00:31:54] thought of things and kind of turned our positioning our posture to go actually what would Jesus do

[00:32:00] because he is above me and his thinking is better than my thinking and his direction is better than mine

[00:32:05] so what would Jesus do how how you know what in that work environment what would Jesus do if he

[00:32:10] was stood right there what would Jesus do with my dad or with my mom or with my sisters or

[00:32:14] what would Jesus do because at that point we are not only valuing someone else's view and

[00:32:19] and and opinion above ours but we're valuing Jesus's above ours which there's no better right there's

[00:32:26] no better than his um but but it is a it is a reality of going I'm not right in everything

[00:32:33] and it's so counterculture because the society says hey if you believe it you are it

[00:32:36] you are right in whatever you hold on to it's fine you hold on to your truth your truth is your truth

[00:32:40] and that's fine you know but that's not a reality of the truth that's not the truth of life of

[00:32:47] the universe of you know the kingdom of God that's not something that we hold on to

[00:32:53] and it is difficult because now I've got three kids and all three of them are growing up in a

[00:32:57] world where you can genuinely believe anything you want to about absolutely everything

[00:33:04] yet somehow they have to also come to the recognition the recognition that actually has not true

[00:33:09] that that God is in control that he made it on and it's his way that we want to follow

[00:33:13] and that my emotions might tell me one thing but actually ultimately I want to submit to him above

[00:33:18] all else that's a great place to land Adrian thank you so much speaking into this it's amazing

[00:33:24] if you make some awesome little videos and things I've seen them online if people want to

[00:33:31] bother you hear what you have to say a little bit more in the way of Jesus how can they find you

[00:33:36] uh first of all thank you so much for having me it's been great love it uh yeah so I'm on

[00:33:39] socials and our church is on socials so I'm at a simarini that's a se e b re any it's funky and weird

[00:33:47] but then the church is at gb underscore church um we put up little shorts kind of just

[00:33:52] little thought provoking thing or praise always that if one person watches her here something that

[00:33:55] points him to Jesus then um it's a glorious moment for for the king's event for us so yeah that's

[00:34:00] about it but um yeah I'm on i'm on google just look me up and i'll put your instagram that you

[00:34:06] just mentioned in the show notes so people don't have to try and spell it's a joy it's a joy

[00:34:14] thank you so much for your time and I'd love to have you back on at some point soon

[00:34:19] and it's been really fun talking to you about humanity atop it we don't often kind of

[00:34:23] weighed into so thank you thanks for having me look to see you again uh grace and peace