Leadership Cohorts | Joe Tata & Kyle Curry

[00:00:00] This podcast is a part of CG and Media, a podcast network that points to Christ. We are supported by listeners like you, to help us create more great shows visit cgmedia.org slash support. Well, happy new year everyone and welcome to season 3 Episode 30 of the Leadership Collective Podcast.

[00:00:20] I'm Rob Subato and along with my cohost Ted Levinworth, we count it a privilege that you would take the time to join us on this podcast. The goal of this podcast is to serve pastors and leaders with practical insights into every area of your leadership journey.

[00:00:37] In our goal, this year is to bring you at least one episode every month, aimed at encouraging you and equipping you to lead well in 2024.

[00:00:49] Some of the episodes we have planned for 2024, really exciting, Rob, understanding your church's seasons of momentum and creating effective on ramps and off ramps. Man, there's a wealth of information in that one to explore another show where we're putting together finding the balance between pastoring and politics.

[00:01:12] Yeah, election year. So we'll take that mild issue. Another show which may or may not be related to that second show is Leadership Pain. We're going to be looking at the unique pains of leading in the ministry context.

[00:01:30] Another show we're going to be doing is creating a value-driven culture and we'll be exploring the nuts and bolts of that as well as developing leaders versus hiring leaders.

[00:01:41] Are we going to get people that assembly is required or we're going to get some people that are products that you can just plug in.

[00:01:48] And as well another show identifying the boundaries of your lane. This is where we identify what Hebrews 121 describes as the race marked out for us. Everyone of us has a race that's unique to us and so identifying those boundaries is tricky sometimes.

[00:02:07] Yeah, that's a huge topic and and had one episode that I'm super excited about will be on the subject of integrity and the life of a leader and one of our guests for that show is going to be Sean Morgan.

[00:02:20] Sean hosts the leaders in living room podcast, which is one of my favorite podcasts and he's also the president or the founder of the Ascent Leader and it's just completed a course with Kerry Newhough called the Art of Pastoral Succession.

[00:02:36] This guy is just huge in the way of leadership has a ton of you know great guests on his show all the time and so I'm super excited to have Sean as our guest on our show.

[00:02:45] And Sean was really the inspiration in the topic that we're discussing today, which is leadership cohorts.

[00:02:52] And leadership cohorts are really designed to bring together a small group of six to eight senior pastors several times a year for a few days at a time to strengthen and encourage one another through collaboration

[00:03:05] and discussion that are centered around areas that we're struggling in areas that we want to grow in and so it focuses on times of teaching times of it. Monishment times of waiting on the Lord and prayer and worship and times of just having fun and laughter together.

[00:03:24] So I'm excited today to be talking with you. I'm looking forward to coming to that cohorts and so I just recently finished my first cohort year with a group of guys and Ted is in the midst of his first cohort year with a group of guys.

[00:03:37] And so we've invited both of us one of the guys that are from our cohorts to join us today on the program. Well joining us today is Joe Tata, the pastor of Calvary Chapel Pomona Valley and Kyle Curry, the pastor of the table fellowship in Mervfriesboro, Tennessee.

[00:04:01] Welcome to the show guys. Thanks so much for having us. Hey, why don't you guys take a few minutes and just tell us a little bit about yourselves and if your ministry background where you're pastoring now and maybe how long you've been there.

[00:04:17] Joe, why don't you start for us. So I was born into a musical family. My dad was an evangelist slash singer and we were born in New Zealand, so we traveled around all of New Zealand.

[00:04:32] And then we kind of like gypsies, we traveled from New Zealand to Australia minister to Australia for a long time and then we landed in the States when I was about 11 years old.

[00:04:43] At about 21 years old, I started reconnecting with the Lord started attending Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, got involved with the worship ministry there.

[00:04:53] And then I was offered an invitation to come and be the staff worship leader at Calvary Chapel Pomona Valley in 2003 which was the same time you know around about the same month.

[00:05:11] I was offered that position and I think it started in August and I got married in July.

[00:05:20] And so it really was a cornerstone in my life because I became this fortunate leader for the stretch and I just met my you know me and my wife to speak in on journey together.

[00:05:30] And it was wonderful as I dream come true. I had a pleasure of of ministry at the same church for the last 20 plus years now I was the worship leader there for many years and then I became the lead pastor in 2012 and I've been that ever since and it's been a roller coaster but also a term then displacing.

[00:05:52] Very cool. But you Kyle. Well, yeah, I guess my ministry experience started back with Pastor Ted when he planted reliance church in 2007.

[00:06:09] My wife and I were high school sweet hearts and got married in 2007 and we started attending this home model study and I didn't realize that it was a church.

[00:06:19] I just figured it was like a home group or something and so we started going and that kind of what my palette if you were for ministry and so I started serving in the youth ministry.

[00:06:32] It was like four or five kids at the time and and then I got basically tricked into taking over the youth ministry and barely walking with the Lord, but you know as church plants go your warm body and you're in.

[00:06:48] So started serving in the youth ministry and then that was in 2008.

[00:06:53] And then I would came on staff, art time and then full time in 2011 with Ted at reliance and then I've got my wife and I've been married now for 16 years we've got three kids and then in the January of 2020.

[00:07:12] My family and I moved from to make it up where house pastor would tend to Murphy's Barrow Tennessee to plant a church and you know that was that's been spending exciting so we planted and.

[00:07:27] We've actually dodged a COVID bullet we didn't have to deal with all the stuff that you guys had to deal with during COVID because we didn't have a church.

[00:07:33] We just started a bobble study and like you know I didn't have to deal with you know clothes open all that stuff and it wasn't until September of 20 that we actually started meeting in our own and then. December Christmas Eve 2021 with our first official service.

[00:07:51] Could we been going just over two years now and yeah it's been going good. That's awesome. Yeah so.

[00:08:00] And you know another cool thing like a potential church merger going on with you right now and at the very least blessing another struggling church in your community and they've reached out to you and you've been able to.

[00:08:13] Provides some leadership for them and kind of studying that church so anyway doing a great job there in Murphy's Barrow. And it's been a while to get it. Thanks. So Rob this whole idea about a cohort where how did you cook that up where did that come from.

[00:08:29] Well one of my favorite podcasts besides this one is leaders in living rooms hosted by Sean Morgan who I'm so excited is going to be on our podcast this year.

[00:08:43] But Sean leads he's the founder of a group called the Ascent leader and they do these things called leadership cohorts. And so they would advertise these all the time on the episodes and I remember listening several times and thinking.

[00:08:58] And I want to go to one of those and but then I kind of put it out of my mind and and then I listen to another episode a month or so later and they'd advertise it again.

[00:09:08] And I feel like I really want to go to one of those and a couple times I even checked into you know where it was going to be and who was leading it and just didn't feel like it was right fit for me.

[00:09:18] And then about maybe six months went by and I was driving down the freeway listening to the episode the ad came on.

[00:09:25] And I thought to myself, man I really want to go to one of those and it was right at that moment that wasn't audible but it was one of those very strong gods speaking to my heart and he just said,

[00:09:37] I don't want you to go to one of those, I want you to do one of those and I thought I have no idea. You know what that means or what that looks like or how I would even do it.

[00:09:48] But I called a few of my friends and I just threw the idea out to them. I said, Do you guys think I'm crazy or do you think anybody would be interested in doing this?

[00:09:57] And they all encourage me like man pastors need this and so that was the birth of it in it.

[00:10:05] It was in I think the maybe the fall of 2021 that got put that on my heart and then we had our first group meeting with the guys that I met with in September of 2022.

[00:10:24] Yeah, so I remember when you told me about it when you started that and for me instantaneously I thought that's brilliant that's amazing.

[00:10:33] And because you know I remember in my early days as as a younger pastor and actually it doesn't even have to be that but when I was a young pastor I had a profound hunger for and I need some mentors, you know.

[00:10:51] And I would have jumped into chance to have something like that and then even when you get older I mean we're fortunate enough to have you know our relationship and a network of relationships where we have people we can reach out to and we actually spend you know you are you know geographically close enough together we can spend time together.

[00:11:11] And that's so valuable as well regardless of how long you've been in the ministry and have those kind of relationships.

[00:11:16] Yeah, you know when I when I passed it in Oregon one of the neatest things I had a chance to be a part of was this thing that John Corson did every year where he would bring about 30 guys to the church for about three days.

[00:11:32] And it was just a small group of senior pastors a lot of us were in kind of the same place in our ministry we had just you know maybe four three four years into it.

[00:11:43] And I just loved being in that smaller group setting the fellowship that came out of it some of those guys became some of my dear friends and there was just a connection that you have with.

[00:11:57] Other senior pastors that maybe is more difficult to have at a bigger type of conference and I love the idea in these you know cohorts being more like six to eight guys it's even more smaller and intimate right and you know I just I just loved it.

[00:12:16] I'm curious and I want to I want to ask both you Joe and Kyle about your initial apprehension to joining the cohort when when you were both invited or your initial thoughts but before I get there Rob for you maybe you could do a little bit of service for the person who's listening right now who might say I'm really not quite sure what a cohort it like what is a cohort what does it do like what's it look like.

[00:12:42] Yeah maybe you can you color that in yeah so a cohort is the idea of taking somewhere between six to eight senior pastors and that was something I think both you and I felt very very strongly about was that you know there's something that.

[00:13:02] happens when you can get together with other guys who are dealing with the same type of thing that you're struggling with and I think. You know senior pastors deal with a unique challenges unique warfare and so when you can get together with.

[00:13:17] A group of guys who speak your language they know your struggle and so in the one that I did we decided. And committed that we were going to meet together this group of guys there were seven of us including myself that we would meet together.

[00:13:34] Four times over the course of a year for three times three days at a time and we were going to meet in different locations and it was a time of just really pouring into one another.

[00:13:50] Talking about the things that we were struggling with there was teaching involved but then the teaching would just open up into.

[00:13:58] Conversations that would just last hours but it also created this safe space for all the guys involved to really share their hearts and really share the things that they were you know struggling with and going through and in this particular group that.

[00:14:16] That I did a lot of these guys didn't know each other ahead of time but there was a bond that was created that has continued now for going on a year and a half where almost weekly we are texting with one another encouraging one another if one of us has something that is going on you know we can reach out and ask for prayer and the guys respond.

[00:14:39] I mean I did this recently I was going into a meeting I texted all these guys and just I was so blessed that within minutes almost every single one of them texted me back praying for you, you know.

[00:14:54] And then a day later hey how that go you know and just having that type of care and encouragement for one another but really really aimed at helping pastors.

[00:15:07] You know have it a platform an opportunity to be able to talk through some things to learn from one another to grow together to stir up and it managed one another.

[00:15:18] That's really been what the folks of it has been and what I've discovered too is that each one that you do each cohort has its its own kind of niche like your first one was guys ten years of ministry was that kind of.

[00:15:33] Yeah that was the focus that God put on my heart was that I wanted to have guys who this was the criteria that they would be pastoring.

[00:15:42] Had only been pastoring the current church that they were at right for ten years or less and so you know Joe he was on your 10. Some of the guys were in year two right one of the guys was in year one.

[00:15:58] And so that was the the focus was you know it was all guys younger than me and guys who had been senior pastors out there current church like we had one guy who.

[00:16:09] I'm not sure if you have a lot of people who have been a pastor on the mission field and he took over a church but the current church that he was that was much different than any church he had been at much bigger and he had only been there for about a year and a half.

[00:16:21] I am still currently taking through in fact we're scheduled to meet in February of this year but. There are all two years or less yeah and and so and we you know it was funny just the way that the Holy Spirit sort of led in that right.

[00:16:38] So guys getting back to the question of thought like what immediately went through your minds when you were invited. To be part of this cohort. Kyle let's start with you.

[00:16:54] I was excited there was no apprehension on my end I knew all the guys in the cohort anyways you know I not had a relationship with each of them and so.

[00:17:05] I'm being around people is what I enjoy you know and so the opportunity to get together with like minded.

[00:17:14] Men that are all dealing with the same as Rob said dealing with the same issues and struggles and scenarios was was going to be awesome and also can forward to it and so when we met.

[00:17:26] I was one of the biggest one was an August it was awesome we just had a great time and there was no agenda which I personally loved we literally just sat around and we talked.

[00:17:34] And some of you let a little devotion and we talked to ministry practical things.

[00:17:40] It wasn't like structured in the sense of like okay open your battles to loop chapter five I'm going to give you a 20 minute sermon and what do you thoughts on the sermon it was like hey there's this situation going on in my church.

[00:17:51] I'm going to go to the end of it you know so it's very very practical hands on and I that was awesome. How about you Joe. Yeah that's you know it's interesting because for me I was probably at the other end of a spectrum where I had.

[00:18:09] I'm better anxious about doing it and it's just simple things like time.

[00:18:15] I had become a bit of a workaholic and so and I think I think all of us passage know what it looks like to be unbalanced at times and I was definitely unbalanced before I came into the cohort. And so for me the idea of taking you know.

[00:18:32] I was a hard thing to wrap my mind around because I always just felt like I was playing for me. And so there was the time piece to it but also. I was just going to really bad place at that time.

[00:18:54] I felt very isolated when I stepped into the role of being the pastor it was it was out of crisis and so I didn't really feel like I was trained for it.

[00:19:04] And and the you know the senior pastor at the time he was definitely my mentor but when he stepped out it was because of. Because of very heavy circumstances and so I felt like I lost him as a mentor in.

[00:19:18] In 2012 and I just had to be in this shepherd that I didn't feel like I was ready to to be and so that led to a lot of on the job training which is good and fun if you're working it in and out again.

[00:19:34] And so I was talking about being the shepherd of people's souls that it was a heavy thing. And it definitely came with a great measure of me feeling isolated and and the truth is because I didn't have a personal mentor.

[00:19:48] I felt like the only thing I had to fall back on was just being mentored by the culture of coverage. And the culture was you know we it's a Moses structure and so we want to lead in a strong way.

[00:20:00] We we teach all the time and we just kind of stayed busy and. And it really kind of broke me from the inside and it led to. It led to a really hard ministry year.

[00:20:14] And so I was a year of the cohort was at this two years ago. And externally I think we were very fruitful, but internally I felt like I was dying on this side.

[00:20:24] And so when I when Rob reached out to me and he talked to me about it, I think my initial thoughts were yeah that sounds good but I'm probably not going to have time to do it.

[00:20:35] But a few things happened a couple months before the cohort where I realized like whoa I am. And not in a good place and I am bleeding I'm bleeding everywhere and I need I need to go.

[00:20:47] I need to go to this thing because it seems like it'd be your I really needed time for me and so that's what happened I ended up going.

[00:20:56] Lay my apprehension aside and ended up being one of the greatest things I was ever part of man can you maybe just give just give us a couple of details of when you say it was the greatest thing that you'd ever been a part of like.

[00:21:10] You know what Joe before you answer that because I think this would be a good lead in.

[00:21:23] Tell them about the very first night because I didn't plan this but I ended up as we were getting together on the very first night and it was sort of like a meet and greet and I chose to show first I said Joe, why don't you start tell us about yourself.

[00:21:39] So so why should you tell the guys about tell everybody is listening about that night. Yeah, it's funny looking back at it.

[00:21:46] Me and Rob had a conversation about what made it so sweet and we decided that the recipe to making a great cohort was to have five pastors and bring in one train wreck.

[00:22:01] And so I was coming in I was coming I lived into the cohort and and so. I didn't know these pastors the only only way I think these pastors is from their highlights on Instagram you know and so I was I had been a district admirer of.

[00:22:26] And in Zach Vasning and even Cody King just some of these guys that I had you know I listened to podcasts that they had given just the wisdom that they had and so I had the steep admiration from them but I felt like I had.

[00:22:42] I felt we're the last 10 years it's just me playing from behind you know learning through failure, but never really just kind of being up there with.

[00:22:51] You know not having the wisdom of the experience of these other guys, so I came in with a ton of apprehension that night but I also said deeply broken.

[00:22:59] I had just come from a season of huge burnout and so we're all sitting there and we're all extending pleasant trees and and it was time to kind of sit down and talk and.

[00:23:10] And so now we're introducing us else one another in garage like such a tell us about what's. You know what's going on with you, what do you expect from this night and I just I broke in that moment because I realized.

[00:23:26] I realized I needed a place to bleed but I had not have placed the truly bleed in front of other like minded shepherd's before.

[00:23:36] Whether I wanted to bleed or not, like with because I deeply cared about what these guys thought about me, but I was just so broken that it was coming out of the way and I started and a week and being that you know I began to say things that.

[00:23:51] I'm actually I can barely remember the things I said other than like guys I just feel like. I feel like I'm in pieces right now and I feel like the word is.

[00:24:01] He's broken me because I just come off of a time of burnout where I did you know we had to go with the leadership and I had to.

[00:24:10] I just kind of can fast just my narcissism and my in my work a hall like kind of tendencies and so all of that I was in the middle of and so I just said guys like I'm.

[00:24:21] I'm a broken mess right now I feel like what's going to be part and I think this is a part of him like this cohort is going to be a part of him piecing me back together and so with you know essentially like whether you guys like are not you're going to become my friends.

[00:24:39] But it was a it you know it's wonderful because I think sometimes all it takes is.

[00:24:47] Is a few people being brutally honest for about 60 seconds about their failures and about their struggles for a bunch of healing to start happening in and I do feel like that's that's a part of what happened at night is.

[00:25:01] I think my brokenness allowed these other guys to realize that they can share their brokenness and it became just a deep communion a deep fellowship of suffering.

[00:25:10] I felt like it was so it was great you know it's interesting to me about that Joe is I think we've all been in settings where somebody might share something heavy like that and then.

[00:25:21] Like there's a silence and everybody just kind of sits there and no one knows how to respond but I loved how much you know in that moment the guys didn't repel from you but they leaned into you and I think that was really the start.

[00:25:37] In the beginning of you know the got what God did and why it was so special and so as I'm planning a new cohort for this year I'm looking for the train wreck. God. You probably won't have to look very far.

[00:25:55] Yeah actually I was going to say that that's one of the things you know people are people wherever you go you know when you're on the mission field and you're meeting people of other cultures and you realize we.

[00:26:04] We have so much more in common than not and as senior pastors we are unique culture certainly and I think anytime somebody really honestly shares where they're going through I'm like how who of us can't relate to various things like that yeah not compassion.

[00:26:21] The people least for me and it sounds like this was true for you but you don't realize that you need it until you have it. Yeah.

[00:26:30] And then you're like oh okay this is what I was missing or this is this is what I have been praying for but not in those words you know I've been asking for community I've been asking for a place to let you said bleed.

[00:26:44] Safe place to bleed you know and we don't know how to pray those things you know and Romans eight tells us that you know hopefully still intercede in our behalf.

[00:26:52] And I feel like those cohorts can be that it always very interceiving and praying in those utterances that we can't even understand and it's when you get around with people but know that. They've all gone through are going through similar things and they can.

[00:27:07] Just that they're with you you know when we in our cohort we had a guy it was going through really rough time with various leaders and a church kind of burning him you know and him and his wife we're just broken and they said.

[00:27:19] We didn't know that we needed this and now now we know what we needed you know and so who's very encouraging to them.

[00:27:26] So anyone who is listening that maybe thinking about joining one but you're like I don't know I would say go for it you know Joe I know idea you needed it and then you got it and then man what do you think was a school.

[00:27:39] And you know I'd love for both you to kind of drill down on this a little bit because you know Kyle you said something to me really interesting when when when you said you didn't know that you needed it.

[00:27:51] And I think as pastors you know we've heard so many times over the years how being a pastor especially a senior pastor you know what's a lonely profession.

[00:28:03] And I think there's a sense in us where we just kind of accept that like this is the way it's supposed to be and and so it's really really hard I think to you know find those key relationships.

[00:28:17] In your life but then at the same time sometimes I think it's easy just accept it's not going to happen and yet there's that yearning inside of your heart for it so.

[00:28:29] Can you guys expand on that just a little bit more on you know that idea of you know feeling like you know I didn't know that I needed this by new I needed something or however you would say that.

[00:28:40] Yeah, I think for you know I think a general rule is that our our brokenness needs demands to be attended to. And we're going to get you know we're going to try and tend to it in numerous ways.

[00:28:57] But for me I felt like I and you know I think a lot of it is just the individual themselves you know I see a listen to Kyle and you know I think the Lord for tad and for Kyle they had this great relationship.

[00:29:11] Deep relationship before deep friends deep friendships before but I felt the way I came into what the way I came to ministry. I you know the only kind of fellowship I really knew with these like one chance that we should have.

[00:29:26] Once a quarter where I that's the a bunch of you know bunch of wounded dudes who.

[00:29:32] Who wouldn't really said they're wounded and I once again I felt like I was kind of lipping into those things but it's hard to get it's hard and it's actually really weird to get deep. Over 15 to 20 minute lunch.

[00:29:46] Yeah, you know, we know what it's like when people get super deep in those short conversations that we have it's like oh is that guy okay. I felt like the lunches and the past those conferences that I was attending over that decade of ministry.

[00:30:04] I didn't I never really felt safe sharing just deep struggles about like you know the kind of things that it takes a time around.

[00:30:16] I feel like you even want to talk about these things like like deep things like a sense of inferiority to the old pastor who left like like I didn't want to.

[00:30:27] Those those things are hard things to say to the people that I barely met like hey can you pray for me because you know the old pastor who left is so good.

[00:30:35] Well these are the things and I just we get these things and and so you know what are those meetings looked like for me I was leading and paying and then somebody at a luncheon but that's we joy you do okay and all of them fine.

[00:30:50] Well that was that's that was pretty much our culture too totally right. And for all of us we had that similar culture.

[00:30:58] I said like relationships they don't happen by accident either you know and pastors are really bad at being shepherded you know they're they're good at shepherding and they'll insert themselves and other people's mess because they see the need in that person's mess but they don't allow themselves to have someone else be very concerned to their life, you know and so.

[00:31:21] Especially seeing your pastors and I don't speak with I speak to your experience right so.

[00:31:26] Hey that for what it's worth but I've been a ministry long enough to know that you need to let others in you know and it's I preach it from the pulpit a Garthry core values our church accountability community and discipleship.

[00:31:40] And so that's not just true of my people that's true of me you know and so I need to allow myself to be pastor but who's going to do that.

[00:31:45] The congregation no it's going to be other pastors you know and so cohorts and things like this are going to be the Avenue because they're going to be a community. Because we are different than the.

[00:32:04] The regular congregant you know we have to go seek out those relationships and oftentimes a lot of senior pastors really really really bad at that.

[00:32:22] And so yeah coming that Ted you so say to me is you don't know what you don't know and I was like what do you been talking about it's almost thing I've ever heard.

[00:32:29] You know and then like I didn't even make sense and then you you know start.

[00:32:33] Pastoring the church from the leap decision that you're like oh yeah I didn't you know I think I didn't realize I needed this you know or I didn't realize I didn't know this or I didn't know what I didn't know and I can't even put words completely around it but I understand it now.

[00:32:49] Much better than I did before I was in the position of senior leader. Well it's it's a little bit like pre marriage counseling right because you know we're we're just talking theory to people we can we we tell them all the stuff and it's just theory to them.

[00:33:03] And then you start doing it and then you realize oh I wish I were to pay close attention on this one or whatever it is but yeah.

[00:33:11] Every time I do pre-marital counseling I I still tell that the young couple you know that those times are coming when you know they're going to be.

[00:33:20] You know not on the same page and there you know be either irritated at one another and I've had some of them they just smile at me I know like I know what they're thinking like that's not going to be us you know and.

[00:33:32] I think the same thing happens with pastors right I'm going to go in I'm going to crush this I'm going to kill this you know and then they find themselves in the midst of something that they like you said what's the saying you don't know.

[00:33:44] You don't know what you don't know until you yeah you don't know what you don't know. Yeah so Rob. I'm curious structurally how you know you you organized your cohort with with four times and so on and now remind me because I don't want to forget.

[00:34:01] You know the conversation you had with your board and that whole dynamic up it but yeah. Okay. Yes so why did we meet four times I have no idea.

[00:34:13] But that was just really what I put on my heart I think the next time around we're going to I'm going to do three three times a year.

[00:34:21] But yeah we met four times and I didn't know what each one of the gatherings was going to be like until we after until after we had the first one but going into the first one as I had had conversations with all the guys who were going to be in it.

[00:34:39] One thing that kept coming up was that they you know all were struggling and dealing with leadership issues and just wanting to get insight on how to be a better leader and had a lot of leadership questions concerning their church and so I ended up asking you know one of my friends at Taylor who is just you know so great in leadership to come and join us.

[00:35:08] And that was one of the things that I wanted to do in mind was I wanted to each time except for the last time that we met have.

[00:35:17] Bring in another pastor who could share along with myself some insights and so the first one centered around that and and felt like you know each these guys really.

[00:35:32] You know we're struggling in that area and any thoughts Jo on how that you know that first time was with Ed.

[00:35:41] Oh yeah they were all like a godsend for me I felt like everything that we spoke on was every time we met it was exactly what I had been just longing to grow in and so the first one about practical leadership.

[00:35:59] I have certain gifts but the gift of leadership the gift of administration and how to be a good leader those things are so you're still growing in and so just spending time with Ed who.

[00:36:12] And so it was like he breathes out of God's wisdom you know it was so rich one of the things he said to me the first night. The truth is I'm like after crying.

[00:36:23] Just having that that space of healing and then getting the wisdom that I got from Ed the first time I could have been happy to go home and just be like alright.

[00:36:30] Good one of the things he said to me that has been quite quite game changing for our leadership culture is he said Jo give your best to those who are closest to you speaking of like being be a pastor to your pastors.

[00:36:45] And and that was he for me that's why it's going for me for me is to make sure that my pastors are well trained well loved and well taken care of and and and you know they can you know our effectiveness.

[00:36:59] Can can multiply through that and so that one was phenomenal for me I think the second one was the most uncomfortable for me because that's where.

[00:37:12] Pastor Rob brought in a wonderful wonderful guy but then he grew up for dying his very sensitive to the Holy Spirit and so the whole theme of that one was the Holy Spirit and being sensitive to the spirit which was.

[00:37:25] It comes so accustomed to being very schedule oriented and very very very text oriented and very message oriented outline oriented in my.

[00:37:35] And my pastor in that the whole idea of creating space for the spirit to move was was kind of a foreign concept and so that was it was really uncomfortable but it ended up being out of all of our gatherings.

[00:37:46] And it was the most transformative one for me. Yeah, and I think that was the case for many of the guys and some of the guys used the term after that second one on. They felt like born again again. Yeah, right.

[00:38:01] And and there was a sense I think where. Many of them it felt like and their eyes were open that they had become a little bit too structured right and had gone away from what I think has been a part of our you know.

[00:38:15] The very, very interesting story.

[00:38:16] Chapel you know movement is that the two things were you know we teach the word of God but we're open to the Holy Spirit and so that was something that God was doing in my own life had been doing over a number of years and.

[00:38:31] I had just come from a conference that I spoke at up in Oregon that brought verdines church host and and had a chance to see him minister in that way and was really moved by it and then what was interesting. During that particular gathering.

[00:38:45] There was a lot of conversation that ended up centering around family and guys having questions about family and so one of the guys in the cohort Zach Vesney had a connection with. John Markcomer's dad.

[00:39:03] Phil Comer and Phil has a ministry that really centers around ministering to pastors and their families and so.

[00:39:11] We reached out to Phil and you know Phil came and joined us for that one and we had some great conversations around family and so it just kind of went on you know and then the only thing that really I think the Lord had put on my heart was for our very last one.

[00:39:30] We I did that one myself and the whole theme of it centered around the idea of finishing strong and that was kind of what I felt like I wanted to you know in part.

[00:39:42] I've been doing this now at the current church I'm at for 27 years just started my 28th year.

[00:39:50] I passed it another church for five years before that and I feel like I'm in the crux of you know probably have a good 10 years left and and aimed to finish strong and so.

[00:40:03] I had some some things on my heart that I want to do in part to you know these guys and have conversation. Yeah about so that was kind of the way we structured you know ours and. Geographically where where what's the rough.

[00:40:19] Yeah, so where your guys were in this last group. We had three guys that were from Southern California. We had one guy from Northern California one guy from Nevada and one guy who started in Colorado and then.

[00:40:36] Five months after our first meeting he ended up transitioning out of his church and is now going to be planting a church in Florida and so we had Nevada Colorado Florida and then. Northern California and then Southern. Right.

[00:40:55] And it's interesting because because you had was that six guys in your group and it was just exclusively the guys did you ever get a chance to get the what the wives together we are going to do that this year.

[00:41:07] That's one of the things that we've talked about is that we want to have a gathering this year where we bring all the wives together I know you're doing that on your next one.

[00:41:15] We're doing it on everyone so like with our group it's the husbands and the wives and it's a little tricky we got a couple of guys from Tennessee. One guy from Georgia one guy from Kansas. And so and their kids.

[00:41:31] Wow we tell because and Texas oh you're right we got we got a couple from Texas so that's our group and so you know originally the idea was let's.

[00:41:42] meet central US because these are all you know again this and it it's the different ingredients like you know this wouldn't be the case with you for guys that have been. In ministry for the most part.

[00:41:55] They they have they're settled enough that they're able to carve out time to get away. Yeah. And I'm getting ahead of myself here because I want because I want to come back to this but how you structured.

[00:42:09] Being able to provide the venue for the guys that's that's we'll come back to that but so anyway so yeah we were from my group it was.

[00:42:20] Young families young church planners not a lot of means and so you know our thought was okay let's provide the place that's centrally located. So so we did that although we're bringing them to California for our next one and everybody's excited about coming out for that.

[00:42:40] But yeah I guess that would be a good good point to because I kind of took a page from you several pages from you in in terms of the cohort our cohort structure.

[00:42:51] And so yeah my the difference is yours exclusively guys mine husband's wives and young kids and also bring your kids. And and it actually pulled it off and it worked out really good and we're going to do that next time as well so did did the.

[00:43:07] When you had your meetings so that the men and women together or did they really yeah husband someone's together. And super fruitful just amazingly fruitful so and you know again everyone's going to be a little bit different I got one I'm putting together currently in Spain.

[00:43:26] That's going to be one of my next ones and that's that also is going to be husbands and wives and then yeah. Sure call okay yeah right I've experienced you in your Spanish.

[00:43:41] So anyway yeah but let's explain Rob how you approached your board and that whole conversation about financing this yeah so one of the things that I felt like was I wanted to make it very very.

[00:44:03] Easy for these guys to be able to come and I know you know some of the guys were in churches where.

[00:44:10] You know they they would be able to afford to do this but there were other guys who it would have been a little bit more you know a struggle. And so I asked my leadership team our board if they would fund this and in the way of.

[00:44:30] If we had to rent a place so you know we did two Airbnb's that we met in and and then if they would fund all the food. And if they would also if I was going to bring in somebody you know would they help fund that as well.

[00:44:49] And then two of the times that we met was at the house of a guy in our church who has this.

[00:44:57] Vacation home on this private lake out in the desert and so that for me personally that was my most favorite place that we met it was just such a peaceful fun you know setting and.

[00:45:09] I wanted to have a fun component to what we were doing yeah every single day there'd be something that we could do and so that. You know the lake afforded opportunity for wave runners and paddle boarding and then also he had.

[00:45:26] You know, doom buggy and things like that Joe almost got killed by Cody King. On a doom buggy ride.

[00:45:35] But I basically said to them this I said guys here's what I want to do I want us to invest in six pastors and these six pastors if you were to take their all six of their congregations.

[00:45:48] It would amount to a group of people that they're ministering to that combined is over 4,000 people. And so the thought was is if we could pour into six guys and strengthen six guys we would be indirectly. Ministering and pouring into four or six different churches. Right.

[00:46:08] And so I decided that for that whole year I wasn't going to do anything on the mission field that this was going to be kind of my mission field and so with these you know what our church.

[00:46:20] And so over all I think it was around 13 grand that it took us to pull you know that off but it was well well worth the.

[00:46:33] Yeah, you know investment and you know the guys all were real eager to they sent the email to our leadership and shared their hearts on it and so it was wonderful in that way. And I we did the same thing.

[00:46:48] I you know we decided as a church that we were going to underwrite this and that we would provide the place the Airbnb.

[00:46:57] And and the food and then the guys just had to get themselves there right and so that so in that you know worked out tremendously it created because you know again in my group.

[00:47:14] They're all within first couple years of church planting you know and there's there's you know hey the places free the food we're going to feed you all you got to get there.

[00:47:24] And some of them are like yes please you know and and it was just perfect timing so so that worked out well but it also occurs to me. You know in terms of the replication of this.

[00:47:41] You could do you could do it on a on a budget there's a lot of cheaper ways that we could get people together as well doesn't have to be you know quite so elaborate right. Yeah absolutely.

[00:47:55] That Joe you're kind of this kind of spurred something in your heart to do something in your area with the youth pastors right. Yes yes so it's a lot more simple than then the things that we're speaking about but one of the things that the.

[00:48:13] That came from this was just that idea that that it seems like every pastor needs pastors including like youth workers and things like that.

[00:48:22] Like we have the benefit of having these leadership conferences and then you know back in the day we had these old past whose conferences but. Now area you know the Pomona area that the L. County area.

[00:48:35] The only time the youth workers get poured into right now is just you know with some spontaneous meetings that they set up themselves but there's nothing really. Official or intentional and so coming back from the cohort it made me realize that not only is like.

[00:48:54] Leadership care needed but it's also possible and I just began to pray and just ask a little bit the limited resources that we have.

[00:49:02] How can I how can we carry to the Monbelle less these youth workers with the kind of blessings that I experience in the cohort and so it's beginning just with a simple simple like gathering that we're doing at our church in June called the in getting gathering.

[00:49:21] Instead of it being like a big old conference kind of saying it's going to be a little more like a one day cohort fields here we're going to have a public time gathering.

[00:49:31] But then we're also just going to you know assign these guys to groups give them a small room and they're going to be up to me numerous times that day.

[00:49:39] So I'll be done one day but they're going to be up to me numerous times with the same people that day and hopefully just begin to stir up some.

[00:49:48] Relationships that hopefully some friendships that hopefully can turn into relationships that hopefully can turn into just like the you know arm and arm. You know brothers and sisters and Christ and so I like that's the beginning of it.

[00:50:02] That's what the youth workers and then for me another thing that that it sparked was just an urgent seat of minister to the pastors that are in my local area. There's there's a number of pastors who are in small churches that just need it's new friend.

[00:50:20] Then someone that they that is going to search out after them because you know I know what it's like to be a pastor in a church and busy and like I wish I had that desire to go and find discipleship but I didn't and so I'm you know after experience it and tasting of it.

[00:50:39] I've just become way more intentional about finding these other pastors in our local area of these small churches and going to meet with them. Going to minister to them and it's been just a really it's been a wonderful thing so.

[00:50:53] So yeah, I'm prayer for that youth workers gathering that's coming up would be greatly appreciated and now we're in the process of just praying about how this can be a launching board for more.

[00:51:04] That was one of the things that I know was on my heart. I'm sure yours is well Ted is that you know in doing this that it would spur some other guys and some of the guys like in the cohort to want to do this with others and you know we're seeing that already.

[00:51:20] Rob Verdine who came to ours he started one with some guys in Oregon and and I know some of these guys that weren't mine are thinking about praying about doing one as well.

[00:51:33] Before we kind of wrap up here, I would just love to go back to you know Ted's question that we didn't really answer in totality but.

[00:51:46] I love for both you to just share what were some of your biggest takeaways from being involved in this and you know how it was.

[00:51:57] I know you both have shared a little bit already, but if there was just a couple of key things that you wanted to share we'd love to hear that. Once you go first Kyle.

[00:52:08] I think you get I would build up by just hearing other people's stories say hearing what's going on with them and it was encouraging to see God working not only just in Tennessee but also in the Kenny Texas or in. I love to sound of that.

[00:52:28] We don't have to love that name. Yeah, I'm sure you heard it's really old there. Yeah, right. But yeah, I think just being encouraged by seeing what God's doing in other places and also.

[00:52:42] To Joe's point earlier it's like when people sharing their struggles and you're like okay I'm not I'm not. Not just normal.

[00:52:51] Yeah, I'm it's normal and so for for me that was really really good and then for our group in particular having our kids come and with the other ministry kids this oftentimes they can be thinking about a lot and they sacrifice a lot.

[00:53:08] And so for them to be included and not only included but thought of and this done things done specifically for them. I'm my kids are so excited to come to the next one.

[00:53:19] Yeah, yeah it's kind of like cousins you know they're you get cousins together haven't seen each other for years but they you know they get on thickest thieves and the ministry kids the same way you know they're just so grateful.

[00:53:31] And yeah, so we got a place that had a pool we're in McKinney, Texas and August it was incredible I'm like are we we hit our heads we're going to second oven here.

[00:53:41] But we had a pool there at the and it sounds glamorous it wasn't it actually was quite reasonable to get all the families together in this place.

[00:53:49] But the kids had a pool and we had a place to hang out and it was man it was identifying it was good.

[00:53:57] Yeah, I think one of my few of my big takeaways they're simple things but I think they're trying to true think the first one is that has to be passed through. Pastors need friends.

[00:54:11] The ministry can be it can be quite an isolating thing at times and and I don't know.

[00:54:18] I don't think that's the way Jesus intended it to be but I think that's how you have made it and and the pastoral culture can sometimes be quite isolating like a fishbowl where everyone sees you but no one really knows you and.

[00:54:31] And so yeah pastors need friends pastors need a place to have conversations that other people wouldn't understand high context conversations with other pastors you know.

[00:54:45] Pastors need a place to laugh one of one of the most joy giving things for me over these four gatherings was just the amount of laughter that we had.

[00:54:55] It's like it's like fuel for me and so to be with these guys and just be up to laugh at our own stupidity the last that are on ridiculous to make fun of one another to.

[00:55:06] It was just it was like being you know what was like for me guys it was like being back in like the old young adult groups where you just have a great time and just have a lot on and.

[00:55:18] And I I needed that felt my soul needed that because a lot of a lot of ministry is is very you know it's very crisis oriented and and your meter can go down quickly so just to be with a couple of guys what you can.

[00:55:33] You can bleed a little bit but then last that one another and you know that obviously takes a little bit of time and I'll see can't laugh with everyone.

[00:55:40] But, but to have that was incredibly good for my souls and so to bleed with the talk to the laugh with.

[00:55:48] To be honest with it was like these things it just reminded me that this is what every pastor needs and I needed it and I want to provide a place for other pastors to have that as well to be that.

[00:56:02] Big brother pastor to go alongside somebody and just say hey. You know you're not you're not a broken toy. The stuff that you're going through I've gone through before and that that's felt like what happened last year when the cohorts has just been around guys where we all.

[00:56:19] To share our comments struggles and it was very life giving one of the best things that has happened to me in my ministry life was being a part of the cohorts. And that's a strong statement. Yeah. I stand by it.

[00:56:33] Well and don't you find too rough I mean I'm as I'm here in Jotalk and Kyle talk and I'm thinking man I was personally identified by the time together. It was just so ministering to my heart.

[00:56:45] Big time it was so you know ministering to my heart I got so much you know out of it and you know some of the guys like I've known Joe for a long time and you know somebody other guys.

[00:56:56] I've known but I can honestly say that I view now you know these six guys as six of my closest friends in ministry and I find that you know whenever I'm going through something or need prayer for something.

[00:57:15] You know I turned to these guys you know and so it's been invaluable.

[00:57:23] You know for for me as well and that was and in some ways that was a little bit of a surprise you know I wasn't going into it thinking necessarily that that was going to be the case but.

[00:57:35] But it has been and that's been one of the things that I you know was really hoping after our first one that when I started and that was one of the reason why I did invite some guys to join us but because I wanted them to catch what was happening so that they would.

[00:57:51] And so that they would go do this in their regions because I think this is one of the things that you know every pastor should be doing and be a part of. And especially guys who have been you know pastoring for a long time like you and I.

[00:58:09] And I think that's the thing that we have made a lot of mistakes that we can learn from. That there's a wealth of you know information both you know mistakes and victories to be able to pass on and so.

[00:58:25] We need this like you when I when I was younger in ministry I so wish.

[00:58:32] And I think that's a part of something like this and I got a little taste of it with that you know a little bit bigger group of guys that I met with John Corson but. You know I just I think this is incredible.

[00:58:44] Yeah, and I think what Joe said earlier is is especially important to to you know to note which is the culture that he experienced where he didn't have. And I think that's a lot more common than people realize and so if nothing else and it's so much more.

[00:59:06] But if nothing else just being able to have a place where you actually can open up. Yeah, and you know that's. It's priceless and really kind of I see it as.

[00:59:21] Being something that's part of the way that it identified me was to create this culture where it's okay not to be okay and it's okay to open up.

[00:59:30] And this is precisely what we're called to do is to bear one another's burdens and thus fulfill the law of Christ. Amen. Amen to that.

[00:59:38] Well for anybody out there listening I'm going to be starting up another cohort in 2024 and again once again I'm going to tailor it towards.

[00:59:49] Senior pastors who have been pastoring their current church for 10 years or less so if that's something you'd be interested in you can email me at rob.

[01:00:02] Selvatto at calvrivissta.com and I'd love to talk with you about it and I just want to say thank you so much to Kyle and Joe for being on the show today.

[01:00:12] And love you guys and love what you guys are doing and the impact that you're making and pray that you guys would just find yourselves running hard and strong in 2024 for Jesus. Amen. Love you guys too thanks for everything you did to you guys are doing.

[01:00:32] Yeah, it's been awesome thanks for having us in the show and looking forward to our next cohort. I don't rather. Bless you guys. So once again, I want to thank you for joining us on the leadership collective podcast.

[01:00:46] It's always a joy to have you join us and if this podcast ministers to you would you please share it with a friend and we'd also love it if you would subscribe to it that just helps us in our algorithms and just helps us know that what we're doing is making a difference.

[01:01:07] And if you would like to reach out to us with any questions or ideas for shows or topics, you can do so by emailing leadership collective podcast at gmail.com. We look forward to hearing from you and have an awesome 2024.