Reading and Preaching the Psalms Chronologically and Canonically with Wyatt Graham

[00:00:00] I think it's more about just understanding what media is and how to use it, but for me God wrote a book

[00:00:07] and he thinks that it's good for us to read that book. And it's a long one that requires contemplative

[00:00:13] reflection. By contemplation I mean like you know like in someone you meditate it, meditate on it

[00:00:19] day and night. So contemplation for me is kind of like when someone talks about meditation on the word

[00:00:24] of God, it's thinking deeply about the things of God and conversing with Him through prayer. And

[00:00:30] no, not just that, it's also your mind thinking about it. So remember in Psalm, is a Psalm

[00:00:34] 41 and 42 where Psalm says, you know why are you so downcast my soul? You're allowed to have

[00:00:40] internal self-reflection that's not unholy to do that. So it's thinking deeply

[00:00:46] often that can turn into that can turn into prayer should say, but it's just deeply reflective

[00:00:51] about God and things that are connected to Him.

[00:00:54] Hey, welcome to the expositors collective podcast episode 321. I'm your host Mike Neglia.

[00:01:00] The voice you heard is our guest for this week, Dr. Wyatt Graham. Wyatt Graham is currently

[00:01:08] serving as the executive director of the gospel coalition Canada. He regularly speaks at various

[00:01:16] church settings and academic settings. He is a writer on the gospel coalition,

[00:01:23] Canada site and has done a lot of doctoral work on how the Psalms work, how the individual

[00:01:33] chapters of the book of Psalms intertwine together and he believes that the book of Psalms

[00:01:40] should be read and understood as an integrated poetic unit. I think that he can do a much better

[00:01:49] job explaining this than I could. And so in the middle of the conversation, I ask some questions

[00:01:55] and some follow-up questions about how we should understand the book of Psalms and then how should

[00:02:02] we preach from individual Psalms in light of an awareness of the whole. So, Wyatt's book is called

[00:02:10] The Promised Dividac King. Psalm 108's canonical placement and use of earlier Psalms. It's part

[00:02:18] of the studies in scripture and biblical theology put out by our friends at Lexum academic.

[00:02:25] And if you are listening to this and you're thinking man I want to know more. Well, you can actually

[00:02:32] follow the link in our show notes or you can just go directly to LexumPress.com slash expositors

[00:02:42] and you'll be able to find this book at a nice discounted rate for the end of March and for

[00:02:50] the month of April. Once again, we're just so thankful for our friends at Lexum Press for

[00:02:58] working with us for quite a while on LexumPress.com slash expositors. You'll actually see the

[00:03:05] variety of authors that have come through this show. So feel free to cruise through the back catalog

[00:03:14] of Lexum authors that have been on the show and also while you're online, make sure you head over

[00:03:20] to expositorscollective.com because we have our next in-person training event coming up

[00:03:26] in the San Francisco Bay Area. May 24th and 25th we're coming to Valley Community Church

[00:03:36] and we're going to be doing a two-day training event. How can we study the Bible responsibly

[00:03:42] and then preach faithfully and communicate well? This is a great event for younger, newer,

[00:03:50] less experienced Bible teachers or even for seasoned professionals. There's various groups

[00:03:58] and coaches that will be suited for each age and stage of attendees. So come along, bring your team,

[00:04:08] bring someone you're mentoring. I'd love to see you in person May 24th and 25th in Pleasanton, California.

[00:04:18] All right, now I'm going to let you hear my encouraging, stimulating, stretching conversation

[00:04:27] with Y-8Gram.

[00:04:34] All right, hey, welcome to the expositors collective podcast,

[00:04:37] honored to be speaking with Dr. Y-8Gram. Good morning. How are you doing?

[00:04:41] It is my morning, that's right and I'm doing well. I'm slightly still not fully woken up but

[00:04:46] give me about 10 minutes, I'm sure it'll come. Well, no one listens to this anyway so

[00:04:51] no pressure. Okay good. Listen to by dozens of Bible nerds across the world.

[00:04:57] Love it. Well hey, so I always love to just dive straight in. Yeah, can you talk to us about your

[00:05:05] first time teaching the Bible in public? That's kind of a nice way to get to know you and your

[00:05:10] context or at least your early context. So when did you first preach a sermon?

[00:05:15] My first sermon, that's in so the first time I taught the Bible in public might have been more like

[00:05:18] a small group setting. The first time I preached from the Bible, I was probably, I'll give you two.

[00:05:24] Yeah, what's the more interesting one? What's the most interesting story?

[00:05:28] Yeah, the other one will feel real. First one is probably at 18 I preached or 19 in college because

[00:05:34] I took a homoletics class in college. So those are like 12 minute sermons or whatever they were

[00:05:41] but probably so I don't know if that I mean, it does count. Don't get me wrong but it's a bit different

[00:05:46] but probably about 19 or 20 is when I would have preached in a church almost I've memory serves

[00:05:52] that would have been in Calgary, Alberta and it was at a church plant or a young church

[00:05:59] and it was in the summer so sometimes in the summer they let people who are not the main person

[00:06:02] preach. Yeah as a gift to them and as a gift to the regular preacher. As a gift to the regular

[00:06:09] preacher, well yeah and I think there's a ministry to like letting people preach who don't yet have

[00:06:15] the skill because you can't get the skill without practice. And I know I've heard, I had one guy

[00:06:24] I remember you know say like oh I can hear someone preach once and I know if they have it or they

[00:06:28] don't have it. And at first it's like oh you must be right but then I thought not as it make any

[00:06:34] sense like I kind of feel like that's a bit too judgmental because if you're 20 or 25 and you've

[00:06:38] never done preaching before you're almost always going to be terrible. Sometimes if you're 35

[00:06:44] and you're in the business world and you do presentations that will help don't get me wrong but

[00:06:48] what you almost don't do is there's a sort of minister I think to helping to letting young people

[00:06:52] have opportunities and then you know to encourage them afterwards in ways that would be not deflating

[00:06:58] but like hey you did great here are the five things that could really improve your preaching so

[00:07:03] I don't remember the text I preach is probably a new testament text I think at that time

[00:07:08] I would have been less used to the old like I really love the old testament that was a thing

[00:07:11] that I was really passionate about and actually in particular the Psalms but I don't remember I

[00:07:17] probably it probably like Luke or probably Paul Paul seemed really easy when you were when I was

[00:07:21] younger because at first I had a little paragraph we're almost with the opposite now I think

[00:07:27] I think narratives are easier than Paul but that's after years of you know maybe practice.

[00:07:35] Yeah especially when you think that the main point of the Bible is to tell you what to do

[00:07:41] it seems as if Paul is more direct in telling you what to do and that's what a sermon's all about

[00:07:46] telling people what to do or what to believe so Paul will help but maybe that's not the point

[00:07:51] of preaching after all not always unless the passage is about what

[00:07:59] yes I agree I just think I think it's them the Bible is pretty diverse and it's you know you have

[00:08:04] stories you have a book like James which I would say is pretty practical you have

[00:08:11] gospel books that are about the life of Jesus I think they invite you to imitate like I'm

[00:08:17] preaching through a mark right now at a church and I think that you know mark is saying here's

[00:08:23] what Jesus does but he always does what he asks us to do so if he says take it your cross and follow

[00:08:28] me it's because he goes with the cross first first and if he says be baptized it's because he was

[00:08:33] baptized so there's a sense of like the way in which mark is telling us what to do is by following

[00:08:40] Jesus in a pretty tangible way yeah so yeah I think that's all that works I don't remember the exact

[00:08:46] text that I preached for I'm sure was Paul or something yeah well then of course like then the

[00:08:50] follow on question from that is like so what are some moments of growth that have taken place

[00:08:56] from there like you appreciate like letting young people have an opportunity as you said so you had

[00:09:00] that opportunity did somebody pull you aside and then give you five tips like like you suggested

[00:09:07] or essentially like how have you gone from from that 2019 year old to the competent preacher who's

[00:09:15] going through mark right now I'm learning to be competent um yeah I had a lot of help so I really

[00:09:22] early on I so in my 18 19 20 I was part of like a church plant and so during the summers because

[00:09:28] I was in school and maybe winters and I passed her there who would help but in particular I was

[00:09:35] also on staff at a church in my early 20s as a pastoral intern that had one fellow there who's

[00:09:40] still kind of a mentor to me who just would just give me like tips like hey you shouldn't put your

[00:09:44] hands out like this and you preach because it looks dumb you know like but like as a friend right yeah

[00:09:50] all those little small things you never think about um but probably for me to be honest the most

[00:09:56] eye opening moment in preaching was realizing that you should just be yourself in other words like

[00:10:04] I had learned like these preaching methods where he have like a story three points conclusion

[00:10:09] I had seen preachers that were really good communicators that we probably all like

[00:10:15] and they're on you know podcast or a conference isn't and that's great but at the end of the day

[00:10:20] like I'm the best communicator when I'm the same person I am with you and the pulpit I might be a

[00:10:25] bit elevated in a pulpit because I have to be a bit louder yeah we're a bit more engaging than

[00:10:29] a standard conversation but I but like one of the things that people say now which I think

[00:10:34] they mean as a compliment is that you sound like the same person in both cases like I said it might

[00:10:40] be a bit louder it might be a bit more animated but the same kind of thing and that's freeing

[00:10:45] and then sometimes I just found you know the structure of preaching um when you learn the

[00:10:51] homeletic method is really like training wheels and later on you just kind of realize I have one

[00:10:56] thing I want to communicate what's the best way to do it and then you just let your brain go and

[00:11:00] pray it out and for me that's been real helpful um practically there's some small things like I learned

[00:11:07] like from Tim Keller to end a sermon with the gospel however you do it has to be contextual

[00:11:14] and use the language of the text don't get me wrong but that's yeah you can't end without

[00:11:19] the crawl I mean you can't preach a sermon without Jesus it's sort of well you can

[00:11:25] and it happens it happens a lot it doesn't really make sense to do that yeah um I found that

[00:11:32] education for me personally helped because it made me a clearer thinker and sometimes in

[00:11:37] preaching you hear a sermon there's like there are 17 things said I have no idea what the point was

[00:11:43] by education I know that not everyone can do it but if you can it gave it made my mind a bit

[00:11:49] more discipline so that I could think I have one thing I want to say let's just do it so the whole

[00:11:53] shotgun versus rifle approach so that helped me a lot but honestly I think learning my own

[00:12:01] communication style one thing that really helped me was also like just speaking in another avenue

[00:12:06] so teaching a small group teaching a class setting teaching a Sunday school setting you just kind

[00:12:12] of learn different kinds of communication then you realize oh I'm actually better at that more

[00:12:17] this style and then when you come to preaching I think you can apply that where you're successful

[00:12:21] the preaching because not like you can't imitate these like a Greg Lora or John Piper who have their

[00:12:28] own they're really really great communicators but they have their own style and their own background

[00:12:34] and if you try to you'll probably fail to be honest your fail to be a great let to be the best

[00:12:40] communicator you can be not fail in total yeah so that's kind of what I learned um well well I did

[00:12:47] fail once because I visited London uh John Piper was actually was there he did kind of a one day

[00:12:54] kind of many conference where he he talked through a lot of content all day long and it was you

[00:13:00] know stirring it was great I really benefited from it and then I was preaching at a friend's church

[00:13:08] the following day and I thought you know monkey see monkey do let's write this a shot I'm sick at

[00:13:15] preaching like Mike Neglia I want to preach like John Piper and and the thought of like well this

[00:13:20] isn't even my my my church so they don't they don't know me so maybe I could they could pull it off

[00:13:25] maybe I could like exults um in such a way that I've just seen and why it just didn't really work

[00:13:32] really well it really fell flat yeah that's that's so true um you can't imitate someone like I

[00:13:41] I think I I don't know if I've consciously done it quite that way as you explain but I think

[00:13:44] when I've tried to be someone else it's just that that's not who God called me to be so like

[00:13:50] you know John Piper is really intelligent has like a PhD from somewhere and he kind of go

[00:13:56] he's hands are everywhere but you just you don't need to be him you need to be who God called

[00:14:01] called you to be I mean that's going to be more important than trying to be someone else every

[00:14:06] day of the week and at the end of the day I think I'll say one thing that has really helped me

[00:14:11] that I just remembered or that was remembering I think just being open to learning new things

[00:14:17] makes you a better preacher because you have the stories come out the illustrations come out the

[00:14:21] cross references come out and like if you can get to the point where you don't really look at your

[00:14:26] notes because you've been thinking like you just regularly are thinking like that could be through

[00:14:30] conversation it could be through book reading could be through podcast and however you find and learn

[00:14:36] the best for me I prefer books there's reasons for that but I get that not ones in that situation

[00:14:42] it just make that a regular pattern of your life and then you're there's always something fresh one

[00:14:45] of the and not to be like too controversial but I think sometimes people stop learning you can kind

[00:14:51] of tell on their teaching or preaching how can you tell well they're not excited about it anymore

[00:14:59] for one and you often are catching what people are passionate about which is like I know John

[00:15:06] Piper like I'm using him but he is passionate because he's it's always fresh for him the Bible

[00:15:12] is something new to him every day he loves it reads it it's a thrill for him but if you feel it

[00:15:18] when you hear him preach even though he's like 72 or whatever he is yeah but I think a lot of guys

[00:15:23] you know preach the same sermon they preach 22 years ago they have two commentaries they're

[00:15:29] bought in 1984 they read the same thing and it just kind of it comes across as like

[00:15:36] okay they got the job done and I think everyone knows or yeah we'll learn to know eventually

[00:15:42] yeah same with a teacher like a professor it's the same you always gotta read it's not about reading

[00:15:47] new things learning it's not like oh you're just spending your day learning new things like an axe

[00:15:50] and it's bad but it is being encouraged day by day in the word being encouraged day by day by

[00:15:57] the fellowship of believers whether that's Christian podcast or the book writers friends in your

[00:16:01] local church your pastor himself wherever it is that keeps you kind of buoyed up and so that

[00:16:08] your ideas are always new fresh exciting Jesus is never old he is the same yesterday today and forever

[00:16:17] but the way that you're seeing him today is new and fresh and so you're excited to talk to him

[00:16:21] you know I bet you if you watch the Super Bowl on Sunday you don't want to tell everyone about it

[00:16:25] on Monday but yeah you should that should be the equivalent in the Christian life you know

[00:16:30] regularly at least on Sundays and Mondays and Tuesdays that you're excited about something in the

[00:16:33] word or about God or whatever yeah yeah I think of yes Mary Magdalene you know discovering the empty

[00:16:42] tomb been running and then she says I have you know she has some news to say and we can't

[00:16:49] it can't be Easter Sunday every day but the the microcosm of like I've looked I've seen this I can't

[00:16:55] wait for it to explain this to you to express this to you yeah I think that's it and it's a hard

[00:17:01] thing to say because it makes it sound like oh you need to be like a bookish nerd but it's not what

[00:17:05] I mean I think you could be a person who reads six books a year but the point is just to be fresh

[00:17:10] like it isn't it's not the volume like you could read 10 pages a day or two it doesn't that's not

[00:17:15] the point but to be renewed it could be through prayer conversation Bible reading in particular

[00:17:23] book reading I think is also helpful with this kind of podcast whatever it is that boys you up and makes

[00:17:29] you encouraged I think in a good church setting a lot of that will happen through relationships

[00:17:35] but realistically a lot of us are in places where we don't have maybe a strong church locally or

[00:17:41] it's a small community or everyone works 60 hours a week because they're young so you you leave

[00:17:46] to commute at 6 a.m. you get back at 5 30 have dinner but your kids to bed in its eight o'clock

[00:17:52] like back to bed and then on Saturday you do your side gig with Uber in order to afford feeding

[00:17:57] your kids and then on Sunday morning you're at church and so realistically I know we all wish

[00:18:02] we lived in 1742 when we could do morning and evening prayer but for most young people who are

[00:18:08] struggling to survive and they are you have a few hours on Sunday morning and then you probably

[00:18:15] have if you're on a train for commute you have time to read a book or listen to a podcast

[00:18:19] or phone call that's just the way it is and it's not great it just is yeah so I think it's tougher

[00:18:27] to find it in your local church than it used to be especially if you're younger because of the

[00:18:32] necessity of the cost of life and the requirement for most people to work a full-time job plus a

[00:18:37] side gig simply to feed their kids or to enroll them in soccer or whatever yeah I've heard you say

[00:18:45] you mentioned it actually twice in the past few moments like your preference for books over other

[00:18:54] ways to take in information like your acknowledging that not everyone's able to do that and there's

[00:18:59] different capacities but like but why do you think that books particularly do it for you?

[00:19:05] yeah I think anything that gets you into a reflective conversation is best so a book

[00:19:11] you have a pencil with you is you listening to an author communicate and you might have a

[00:19:17] no-patter notes and you're writing your thoughts you can pause look at it refer to a Bible text

[00:19:24] pull another book off your shelf it's a reflective conversation I know that the author is not

[00:19:29] literally there to talk to you so but there is a sense in which that's true podcast can do that

[00:19:35] if they like but you have you're listening like us which is two people doing like a let's say

[00:19:40] a disputation like a you're on a topic and you're going back and forth on it but you're overhearing

[00:19:46] that you're not participating in the full way so it's good yeah and I can be or you could be an

[00:19:51] avatar for someone so you're in their place by asking questions but it's still similar to the book

[00:19:57] format and a lot of times a podcast by its nature is more ad hoc for the moment yeah that's right

[00:20:05] where a book is usually like multi years of thinking and editing and proofreading and so it gives

[00:20:12] you a more ordered and reflective conversation it forces you into that whereas I think if you look

[00:20:18] at the different kinds of media out there there are great things I mean you can watch a one-minute

[00:20:23] TikTok on some Bible thing but again usually that'll be relatively ad hoc for the person doing

[00:20:28] it's kind of a short term the the length of that will be not long enough for a long term thought

[00:20:37] so it's good for what it is I'm not saying it's bad to do a one-minute TikTok on the Bible go for

[00:20:41] it but there's but you have to know all the media so there's the TikTok reel to long three-hour

[00:20:48] podcast of like a Joe Rogan or whatever to 45-minute podcasts like this kind of one you have that

[00:20:55] genre you have YouTube videos that have that are really short YouTube is really long that have

[00:21:00] all sorts of media in them to keep your attention you have YouTube videos that are just someone's

[00:21:05] face for eight minutes or whatever discussing a topic you have books you have short books you have

[00:21:10] academic books you have popular books you have encyclopedia type books so I think it's more about

[00:21:16] just understanding what media is and how to use it but for me God wrote a book

[00:21:24] and he thinks that it's good for us to read that book and it's a long one that requires

[00:21:30] contemplative reflection by contemplation I mean like you know like in someone you meditate

[00:21:36] meditate on it day and night so contemplation for me is kind of like when someone talks about meditation

[00:21:41] on the word of God it's thinking deeply about the things of God and communing with conversing

[00:21:47] with him through prayer you know and no no not just that it's also your mind thinking about it so

[00:21:52] remember in Psalm is a Psalm's 41-42 where Psalm says you know why are you so downcast my soul

[00:21:58] you're allowed to you're allowed to have internal self-reflection that's not unholy to do that so

[00:22:05] it's thinking deeply often that can turn into that can turn into prayer I should say

[00:22:10] but it's just deeply reflective thing about God and things that are connected to him so book God

[00:22:15] wrote a book good enough for him good enough for me is that the simplest argument yeah I mean

[00:22:22] it's hard to hard to argue with and I appreciate that you're yet you're acknowledging it as other

[00:22:26] ways and then even yeah conversations that you're having or listening in on can be useful but

[00:22:33] yeah that this structure to long form thinking we just do all all the ones that are available to you

[00:22:38] and that are possible like someone could be a taxi driver's not gonna read a book or a bus driver

[00:22:44] right but maybe they can find time for podcasts I don't know like so it's just you've got to do what

[00:22:50] you can do with what word God has placed you yeah and and to have your standard the standard of a

[00:22:55] guy is a full-time pastor and can read a book a day not always by the way you can't do that by the

[00:23:01] I can't but if you see someone like that yeah like that's just an absurd standard to measure yourself by

[00:23:06] yeah well and shout out to the taxi driver who's listening to this conversation like we are

[00:23:11] like so excited for you and we we hope this helps that's it no I think that that truly isn't it so

[00:23:18] yeah so so speaking of of books and even edited books um I'm I'm holding in my hand uh the

[00:23:24] promise Davidic King Psalm 108 canonical placement and use of earlier Psalms

[00:23:30] by Wyatt A Graham that's you isn't it that's me yep I have the book too um yes I wrote a book

[00:23:38] I had some other stuff that I published in like chapters and books but this is the full first

[00:23:43] I'm the single author of the book yeah yeah and and it looks beautiful man like everything Lexan

[00:23:48] puts out is like is so well it's it's beautiful and you can't put together yeah you can't judge

[00:23:54] a book by its cover but like Lexan books are always just like I actually store them together

[00:23:59] because they all look so good on myself but anyway I love them yeah as for the content of it um

[00:24:05] so so you were even just saying earlier on like you know podcast versus books you know books are

[00:24:11] the product of a long thought process that go through editing and there's that final product um it

[00:24:19] seems like you can correct me if I'm wrong uh it seems that you also say that like the Psalms

[00:24:24] the Psalter as a book is something that also is like intentionally arranged possibly even edited

[00:24:32] but that there's like a point and a purpose to the Psalms oftentimes people think of them as

[00:24:38] 150 songs you know on a playlist you can shuffle through it doesn't matter the order

[00:24:44] but uh is your one of your contentions that uh actually there is an order and a thoughtfulness

[00:24:49] to the arranging of those 150 Psalms yeah so I think anyone can distinguish like if you have a

[00:24:55] term paper that's due the next morning you write it at 11 p.m. and hand it in 59 minutes later

[00:25:02] that it's it's chaos i just did that i just did it on Thursday nice perfect i finished it at

[00:25:10] 255 a.m. and yeah well maybe it could have been chaos and um it was but people kind of read that

[00:25:18] know that there's there's something wrong like it's not this beautiful coherent beginning to end

[00:25:24] thing hopefully hopefully nobody knows this hopefully no one knows it yet but anyone you

[00:25:28] writes a book yeah it takes a number of years and sends it to friends gets feedback it's entered

[00:25:34] you know that it has its coherent its whole and makes sense so i think when you so that's just

[00:25:40] important to think about books i think sometimes where if you're not a publisher published person

[00:25:44] you don't think about that just because it's not on your day-to-day but whenever you're reading like

[00:25:48] a gospel book you just know there's a beginning and an end like like there's the birth of Jesus

[00:25:54] the good it just it actually just makes sense to you there might be pieces you don't fully

[00:25:57] understand but it makes sense as a story so i think the Psalms are actually a little bit like that

[00:26:03] they're obviously not a story like the gospels are or the book of acts are or first and second

[00:26:09] Samuel are but they do seem to have um there does seem to be something said there they seem to be

[00:26:17] organized there's certain Psalms that seem to be clumped together because they have the same author

[00:26:23] the same title and you can read them like Psalms 22 23 and 24 and they all seem pretty similar in theme

[00:26:31] they are all there are also internal signs that the the book of the Psalms is divided into five big parts

[00:26:38] you can see that through at the end of certain Psalms or really well here's an easy example the

[00:26:45] end of Psalm 72 says i think of verse 20 or so these the end these are the ends this is the end

[00:26:51] of the Psalms of day of the son of Jesse you know yeah so there's just stuff like that you can see

[00:26:55] and people over time have observed that and by over time i mean it's it's ancient there's a this guy

[00:27:02] my bookshelf right there Gregory of Nissa with little circle above his head yeah he wrote a book on

[00:27:09] the Psalm titles um he says yeah it's pretty obvious they're divided into into five books

[00:27:16] i don't remember if you go if you're a Jewish person even before him you would say they're into

[00:27:20] five books like the five books of Moses Gregory of Nissa thinks it's maybe five books that you kind

[00:27:26] of walk up tell you get to the kingdom of God which sort of fits contextually because book five has

[00:27:33] a lot of praise things about the kingdom the Messiah and the return from exile or in exile or hoping

[00:27:41] for return maybe it's more accurate so there they're these there doesn't even enough signs in the

[00:27:46] book of Psalms themselves that suggests that we should probably read it as more like

[00:27:51] there's a mind behind the the organization not in a weird like this is like the book of Samuel kind

[00:27:56] of way but just you know it's it's like if you're ready if you read a collection of poems a lot of

[00:28:00] times they are organized by theme there's an author behind it they make sense to be read together

[00:28:07] uh the Psalter the book of Psalms seems to be like that and a lot of people have recognized it over time

[00:28:13] but for whatever reason in recent history we haven't talked about that as much yeah and one reason

[00:28:19] could just be when there was academic study of the Psalms in the 19th and 20th century we really

[00:28:26] got excited about the different genres in the Psalms and comparing them to the ancient world

[00:28:33] and we kind of forgot to talk about the order sequence and meaning of the Psalms

[00:28:38] and then a lot of times your seminary books emphasize the thing that's very exciting to people

[00:28:43] and so on and so on so i think the the Psalms as a book is a very very traditional idea

[00:28:52] cross Judaism and Christianity then in recent years has not been emphasized and therefore

[00:28:58] probably the average Christian is not quite aware of it but if you read if you read like the

[00:29:03] ESV or Bible translations today you'll see it says book one book two book three book in the Psalms

[00:29:09] they're getting it from somewhere yeah it's a very traditional way to to divide it into five parts

[00:29:14] or five books yeah and while yeah it might not be a popular way of looking at it the stuff just

[00:29:21] keeps coming across my my reading or my thinking or my hearing about this structure so maybe there

[00:29:28] is kind of an uptick or maybe i'm just reading really niche things well i think people are remembering

[00:29:35] the past more like we live in a world where nothing is stable where the old denominations aren't

[00:29:41] the same as they used to be and everyone's like hey wait what are we as Christians again what's a

[00:29:46] Protestant anyway okay and then you go back and you realize wait a minute we thought all this stuff

[00:29:51] i thought we were just sort of like i thought Billy Graham started the church you know yeah so i

[00:29:55] think that's an effective by the way Billy Graham my uncle great guy just kidding it's not my uncle

[00:30:02] always have the same last name i just said it as a joke sometimes i was like i did some pre-reading on

[00:30:07] you i never came up with that we have the same last name it grams my last name so just

[00:30:12] i say that sometimes as a joke but of course not seriously although i i mean i respect him

[00:30:16] it's great i i'm not you know james has mercy trounce over judgment and i'm i get so

[00:30:24] disturbed by Christians who think that judgment triumphs over mercy because i think there's things

[00:30:29] that i disagree with with Billy Graham and but like okay but he preached Jesus you know if Paul

[00:30:34] can say in philippians one that even if you do it for bad reasons i see a a glory that you're preaching

[00:30:38] the gospel i think Billy Graham did it for good reasons like me glory even more yeah i mean

[00:30:43] yeah minor disagreements and in particular maybe the way that he connected with churches but

[00:30:48] come on like give me a break yeah and there's that famous what do you

[00:30:53] do moody quotes you know someone disagreed with his evangelism and he said well i i

[00:30:58] prefer my way of doing evangelism over your way of not doing evangelism right oh okay yeah

[00:31:04] was that this conversation someone maybe yesterday like yes it was there's no technology where a lot

[00:31:09] of people are are tumors or blackpilled on technology and there's good reason for it but what

[00:31:15] i have found is a lot of people who say there's lots of deleterious effects or sorry there's lots of

[00:31:19] bad things that happen when you use technology addiction all those various means don't worry okay

[00:31:26] what ends up happening is they either they they use as an excuse to retreat

[00:31:33] and but they don't realize that whether the likener not everybody in their local church who works

[00:31:38] 60 hours a week he is engaged at work or in the train or whatever in technology all day so

[00:31:44] they retreat from that or they essentially become nealists so Frederick Nietzsche's critique or

[00:31:51] Christianity was that it was it was nealism a nealism meaning that you hate the world now the bible

[00:31:57] says that we're not of the world and we hate worldliness but we're for the world because God says

[00:32:03] for God so love the world that he sent his only begotten son so we don't want to be nealists

[00:32:09] we don't want to hate everyone in the world but don't want to be worldly we don't hate everyone

[00:32:13] and so I think you just need I don't know I don't know why we're on this topic by the way but

[00:32:17] there is oh Billy Graham yeah you've got to have a charitable judgment to people it's absurd

[00:32:23] I mean you start somewhere like when I was 20 I was a lot meaner and dumber and unkind than

[00:32:28] I was today yeah and if I were to pigeonhole myself at 20 to where I am today at 36 it would be

[00:32:35] like I would I would never have made it to where I was if someone treated me if people treated me

[00:32:39] that way totally so I think we need to be way more charitable not only with Christian figures

[00:32:45] who are growing just like we are and are often incorrect and we're often incorrect

[00:32:50] but also with the way that we think about technology speaking of the song

[00:32:56] yeah so regarding yeah uncle Billy and everyone else I appreciate your open-heartedness

[00:33:02] well let me let me use this old technology of a book and I'm gonna I'm gonna quote you you kind of

[00:33:06] summarize there's three undergarden assumptions number one the Psalter is a book number two

[00:33:12] individual Psalms should be read in sequence and then number three the Psalter progressively tells

[00:33:18] a story along redemptive historical lines yep how did you arrive I guess I'm obviously the quick

[00:33:25] I know that you spent years of your life researching this and looking into this but um particularly

[00:33:30] like that that second point that the Psalms should be read in in sequence earlier in this conversation

[00:33:36] you referenced Psalm 41 and 42 and that's kind of a famous one that like they are connected there are

[00:33:42] repeated phrases from the 41 into 42 but but you think they all should be that way

[00:33:51] yeah I'll give you so I remember being in college reading the Psalms in a class not paying attention

[00:33:56] reading the the Bible and reading the Psalms and just finding them really really interesting I knew

[00:34:04] some of them talked about Jesus but not at all understanding what was going on it's almost just a

[00:34:10] collection of ancient words and ideas thrown about and then you got to Psalm 22 and you're like okay

[00:34:17] cool and yet when you begin to read the Psalms one to one 50 you kind of begin to see these patterns

[00:34:27] that emerge just naturally from your reading so books so basically the first 89 or so Psalms

[00:34:34] really really really have a lot of David as the author and I believe was a Psalm 89 Solomon the author

[00:34:40] was that I don't know I know 90 is Moses no no it's yes Ethan yeah and then 90s Moses yeah so you

[00:34:49] begin to see that and that's really interesting and then once you get the Psalms like 90 to 106 which

[00:34:55] is traditionally called the fourth book you have a lot of Moses type stuff and a lot of stuff that

[00:35:01] goes back to the law and that's strange so why would that be but you begin to read and you see

[00:35:07] well at the end of this like Psalm 106 you have Moses again mentioned but there's the sense in that

[00:35:15] Psalm that people are are an exile they're waiting for something more and then once you get into

[00:35:20] what is traditionally book five Psalms 107 to 150 if all these Messianic Psalms all these Psalms

[00:35:28] what returning all these Psalms out praising God and it makes you think oh well maybe there's

[00:35:36] there's something more for David's line there's something there's something more to come so kind of

[00:35:42] begin to see that sort of pattern which is very general you begin to see things like the first

[00:35:49] bit of the Psalter has a lot of laments in it and then ends with a lot of praises in it

[00:35:54] begin to see patterns like that and then sometimes you just begin to read Psalms you're like I

[00:35:59] kind of think that maybe these two are really thematically similar like Psalms one and two

[00:36:04] of course yeah the Psalm one opens with how blessed is the one so in someone and then some two

[00:36:10] verse 12 ends with those who take refuge in him are blessed or happy so it's the same word

[00:36:15] and then begin to read and you're like oh there's a lot of other words that are really really

[00:36:18] similar or other ideas and it begins to make you think well some ones this general idea that

[00:36:23] you should delight in God's law and some two is this more specific idea that you delight in God

[00:36:29] through his son and that's how that's the means by what you're blessed and then you look at

[00:36:35] him more closely you're like if I look at Psalm three above the first verse which is actually in

[00:36:40] the it's in the it's in the Hebrew Bible there's things like oh it's a Psalm of David when he fled

[00:36:44] from his son Absalom but Psalms one and two don't have any of that kind of title stuff yeah so

[00:36:50] make you think oh maybe they're kind of they're kind of tied together a little bit as an introduction

[00:36:55] a general thing about how to follow God and it's specific way to follow God through his Messiah

[00:37:00] and then you read the rest of the Psalms you're like man the rest of the Psalms really talk about

[00:37:03] like Psalm 118 his word you know and then other ones like Psalm 110 or 118 or it's like or was it

[00:37:10] Psalm 45 I think really talk about this coming king this Messiah that I want I should take refuge in

[00:37:17] and I should kiss the son and so on so maybe Psalms one and two are really thematically big picture

[00:37:24] introductions to everything and I think you know if you read it it actually does kind of fit

[00:37:30] then maybe you get to Psalms like I don't know Psalm 22 and 23 are famous so Psalm 22 is virtually

[00:37:38] every verses cited in the New Testament about Jesus the first verse of Psalm 22 is my God my God

[00:37:43] why have you forsaken me but it almost every verses not maybe not almost every verse actually

[00:37:49] I would say the majority of them are cited in the New Testament or at least alluded to like when

[00:37:52] people walk by the cross and they wag their heads at him and that's in there it's about the

[00:37:57] crucifixions or his hands and feet are pierced all that kind of stuff you look at that and again you

[00:38:03] look at the title oh it's a Psalm by David oh Psalm 23 is a Psalm of David oh Psalm 24 is a Psalm of David

[00:38:10] that's the title and you're like oh maybe there's something connected to them and you read Psalm 22

[00:38:16] which is universally New Testament about the cross and then the end of Psalm 22 is about the redemption

[00:38:21] from the cross and the salvation of people that are no longer they're now called brothers who

[00:38:26] were not you think okay well Psalm 22 is about the suffering of the cross with Psalm 23 about well

[00:38:34] maybe it's about the Lord who's the shepherd who goes to the valley of the shadow of death

[00:38:39] and then is rewarded for that by having a table in a kingdom and then you look at Psalm 24 and it's

[00:38:46] oh it's the Lord of glory same Lord who's identified as Yahweh himself who ascends presumably from

[00:38:53] earth up the mountain of God into heaven or into the city of the city which isn't heaven

[00:39:00] which seems to be if you look at the very last verse of Psalm 23 the Psalmist says David says

[00:39:05] only goodness in faithful love will pursue me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house

[00:39:09] of the Lord as long as I live and Psalm 24 is about going up to that house okay so yes they are

[00:39:16] different Psalms and also yes they do seem to be connected and I've preached Psalms 22, 23,

[00:39:24] 24 and 1 sermon as three moments of Jesus's life one would be the sort of the cross one would be

[00:39:32] the sort of the burial and death of Christ that walk into the valley yeah then the sent would be

[00:39:38] chapter it would be Psalm 24 wow now you gotta be careful I mean there's original context yes these

[00:39:44] are written in by David and then hundreds of years later possibly you know what Howard is maybe

[00:39:51] like 600 years later someone organizes the Psalms into a book right and that reordering of the

[00:39:58] put them into the book creates additional meaning because the author of the Psalms is the

[00:40:04] whoever put the Psalms together and so there's there's a new kind of relation to them that doesn't

[00:40:10] mean that David didn't organize but by the way because remember remember the end of Psalm whatever I

[00:40:14] said was at Psalm 78 or whatever 72 says this ends the books of David sons of Jesse yeah so it's

[00:40:20] very possible that these were organized by David early on don't get me wrong okay because if you

[00:40:24] read Chronicles and so on it talks about you know David organizing worship and all that kind of

[00:40:28] stuff but then there were still put into this book and some of the Psalms in the book of Psalter

[00:40:34] are easily from the exile Psalm 137 talks about being in the in Babylon Babylon in exile so you know

[00:40:42] that the Psalms are written across a thousand years because Moses is also an author so whenever

[00:40:47] this is put together there's a sense in what we can kind of read them together at a at a at a

[00:40:53] in a big picture way but anyways I think Psalms 22 23 24 it was an example of how you can see

[00:40:59] how this could be useful to see a sort of sequence that's intentional and speaks beyond itself

[00:41:05] yeah and to think of yeah that that editing process because you're right to point out obviously

[00:41:12] it was not written in one generation nor by one person so there was a compiler um I've heard

[00:41:19] people suggest that Ezra had a role or a contemporary of Ezra had a role in that do you put your

[00:41:24] thoughts on that really quick oh I think that is the like a Jewish tradition but I just think

[00:41:28] that nobody actually knows but sure why not yeah at the end of the day it's still unspoken yeah yeah

[00:41:34] yeah and it's going to be done by presumably godly people that the Lord used but you know there has

[00:41:41] it has a double as a double kind of double oddness to it one is primarily written by David and others

[00:41:49] yes and second Samuel 23 uniquely identifies David as a prophet who has a spirit of god in his mouth

[00:41:56] because also someone who does sacrifices yeah so he's uniquely a prophet someone who does sacrifices

[00:42:01] like a priest it's also a king so he's a really really unique figure and I think that's primarily

[00:42:07] why it's a and it does most of the Psalms I believe or great deal with them and so that's why

[00:42:12] he's kind of viewed there but then whoever compiled the Psalter into a finished book obviously thought

[00:42:19] during the exile because that's some like Psalm 137's in the Excel for sure other ones are too

[00:42:25] that these earlier Psalms of David were still useful though written from that point of view like

[00:42:30] 600 years earlier and the mosaic Psalms a thousand millennium earlier were still useful

[00:42:36] so in the Psalter Psalm 9 which is a Psalm of Moses was never

[00:42:44] when included in the Psalter intended for its original audience in whatever like 1400 BC yeah

[00:42:50] it was always intended for the Psalter's audience which would be an exilic people and by the way

[00:42:56] you have a group of people who knew god were exiled from god lived in a land that was not their

[00:43:03] own and were sojourners and exiles they're waiting for their return of their Messiah to bring them

[00:43:08] home to their kingdom which is precisely the analogies the Bible uses for us that we are exiles

[00:43:14] here on earth below or citizenship is in heaven or waiting for our Messiah this like in coming not

[00:43:17] the first the second coming to return to bring us home to the kingdom so I would also argue

[00:43:21] that the Psalms are one of the easiest Old Testament passages to apply because god so intended them

[00:43:27] that the situation of the ancient Israelites for the first coming is precisely same for us

[00:43:33] for the second coming that's awesome you've yeah you've really raised the I don't want to say

[00:43:39] raise the relevance of them that's impossible but you've shown the urgency and the immediacy of

[00:43:46] the Psalms so kind of a question that I'd love to ask from that is that like well then how you know

[00:43:52] to paraphrase to paraphrase shaffer like how then shall we preach how if that's true and it is

[00:44:00] like how how should somebody preach one of those Psalms or you kind of mentioned

[00:44:05] you know way back to the beginning this conversation that it's good for younger preachers to get a

[00:44:11] chance to preach maybe during the summer and I don't know how many times I've seen it why but church

[00:44:17] just have a summer of the Psalms because they do they do because it's a chance oftentimes for

[00:44:25] there to be you know more more preachers or guest preachers than usual and then oftentimes it's

[00:44:31] just kind of preach your favorite song because they know that people are in and out preachers to

[00:44:35] in and out and the idea is well since these are all just totally individualized atomized Psalms

[00:44:42] they could be a one-soft sermon so kind of my my question is like can you give us advice on

[00:44:48] how can I preach one Psalm on its own I would say there are there two simple ways if you're really

[00:44:58] new find a Psalm the New Testament sites a bunch like Psalm 22 and just preach Jesus from it

[00:45:05] because there you don't have to do a lot this like you should do a lot of this paperwork don't get me

[00:45:09] wrong but it's gonna simplify your life if you're new to the Psalms second one is I would pick a

[00:45:15] Psalm like Psalm 73 that is intensely emotional intensely about issues like jealousy and greed

[00:45:24] the song of Absalon or no no it's not Absalon it's um yes so I'm going to envy and arrogance

[00:45:34] talks about seeing people with wealth and you don't have it how you feel about that

[00:45:39] and then realize and then it ends with this reversal that when he saw God a changed everything

[00:45:48] so what you're doing is you're preaching all like all the sinful ways that we desire and see the world

[00:45:53] all the the wrong thinking ways and then you end with a gospel coming to see God so find a Psalm

[00:45:58] a lot of Psalms move from lament to praise so preach the lament as the problem

[00:46:03] and the praise namely encountering God as the solute I know solution sounds down but the

[00:46:07] solution yeah you're preaching the gospel and in particular it's useful to remember that if the

[00:46:13] Holy Spirit inspired the Psalms and the Psalms portray us as both Kelvin and Athanasius

[00:46:23] recount the full spectrum of the human condition of emotions and feelings it's the only book in

[00:46:28] the Bible that is particularly inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach us to feel Christianly wow

[00:46:33] and in particular it's also a book that the Holy Spirit what's right what he Holy Spirit gives us words

[00:46:42] to complain to speak of our suffering to be grumpy and jealous

[00:46:52] so but not he gives us these words to say back to him so that we might overcome those things

[00:46:59] meaning not to stay there of course but when you read a Psalm like a saff you see that his emotions

[00:47:05] affections and loves were disordered so that they were affixed to things on earth and not

[00:47:11] to to heaven above what do I have an earth except you know nothing except for you

[00:47:16] and therefore the Holy Spirit gives us words as Augustine says Augustine Vipo

[00:47:21] to I'll use his language which was weird to say to unscrew what's twisted in us

[00:47:26] straightened it out yeah yeah and it's by the Holy Spirit for us and it helps you to overcome this

[00:47:33] weird thing was like I can't talk about how people actually feel in their sin or how they

[00:47:37] actually complain because we have this sort of like we're too holy for that actually talk about

[00:47:42] real sin but if you read the Psalms they often complain towards God says God you're unjust

[00:47:48] will you fail be God yeah but we don't actually want to say that but the Holy Spirit gives us the

[00:47:52] words to actually say those words so that we can see who God really is and to readjust our thinking

[00:47:59] our affections our loves or actions in a way that would make us blessed as Psalms 1 and 2 say

[00:48:06] blessed being in particular the not just blessed like good thing happens to you but let's try

[00:48:15] to put this in the Bible the word blessed that that whole group at least the well there's two

[00:48:20] words for blessed the ones and Psalms is about leaving a full life that at the end of your life you

[00:48:26] can say God was with me all along and I will live the good life despite all my sins but there are

[00:48:32] sacrifices for sins in the old covenant and in the new covenant there's Jesus Christ so at the end

[00:48:37] of the day you say I had I lived a good life that's what that word is it's the same in the sermon

[00:48:40] in the mount when Jesus talks about blessed or happier those it's not like some it some individual

[00:48:46] blessing it's at the end of your life you did it with God God did it through you yeah so I

[00:48:52] would pick those two kinds of Psalms ones that start with lamenting go to praise some 73s are really

[00:48:56] easy one to preach because it's all about stuff that we deal with today all about the envy arrogance

[00:49:04] wrath and then all about it takes seeing God to make your restless heart find rest in him as a

[00:49:11] gust and would say or the Jesus passage or the Jesus Psalms which are a little bit easier yeah

[00:49:17] and if someone were to preach say Psalm 22 as you know one of the most famous Jesus passages do

[00:49:24] you think they're doing injustice to the text if they don't include 23 and 24 that that movement

[00:49:31] that collection that you see that kind of compilation no okay and the reason why I think I think

[00:49:37] I think how should I put this I think preaching is preaching is applied wisdom so you could

[00:49:46] preach one word in Paul yeah one book of Paul the whole New Testament in a sermon one Psalm

[00:49:54] one word in a Psalm preaching is is wisdom applied and so I don't know I don't go like that I

[00:50:01] mean I would say by preference I would maybe preach all those over three weeks because they connect

[00:50:06] together yeah or in one sermon if you but I could do it in one sermon maybe because I thought about

[00:50:11] the Psalms for a really really long time first yeah so I just think because what's gonna end up

[00:50:16] happening is if you have the confidence to connect original context so David sultry christ

[00:50:25] us yeah if you have the confidence that go for it but but if you're new to the Psalms it'll just be

[00:50:30] too hard to do that and you'll stumble when you're preaching so just do something really really simple

[00:50:35] yeah just do one Psalm and you know Psalm 22 nobody's gonna like question your exegesis because the

[00:50:41] New Testament does it already it's authorized yeah yeah so if you go to Psalm 23 and you preach it

[00:50:46] about the the the basically the death and then burial of christ people will be like are you sure

[00:50:55] so just get there through the obvious ones and then show people why that's more obvious than

[00:51:01] it sounds yeah and I appreciate your pushback on that you know because yeah maybe I I phrase it

[00:51:07] in an unhelpful way you know that unless you do this and this then you're doing an injustice to the

[00:51:12] text when in reality like there's always more to say there's always like dept to plunge and things

[00:51:19] to pull in but it's yeah being faithful to this part of it to help these people there's a reason why

[00:51:27] I mean I think Christians have always done forms of expository preaching but if you read a lot

[00:51:33] of the church fathers or the medievals who are doing Bible preaching they don't always do it

[00:51:38] perfectly sequential like we do but they're still expository because they're getting to the heart

[00:51:43] of the text but there's wisdom applied yeah from the text you know so what you do the extent of

[00:51:48] it the narrowness of it etc and I think that's still true today you look at martin Lloyd Jones he

[00:51:53] would be like a theological preacher will preach on like the word but in Ephesians to God yeah

[00:51:58] like okay yeah for like eight weeks yeah for him that maybe works I personally I couldn't handle

[00:52:05] that but yeah it comes a point when you kind of you're you stop expositing you know if the

[00:52:10] prick of these two narrow then you're actually kind of missing out but anyway who might a critique

[00:52:15] martin Lloyd Jones well um but hey listen we're like we're like out of time I wanted to talk more

[00:52:20] about like Psalm 108 and how it incorporates other things but maybe what a great sales pitch for

[00:52:26] people to go to lexam.com and just buy the book um so I wrote this it must have been dissertation

[00:52:32] but I always wanted to publish it so I wrote it to be publishable meaning I wrote it I you I

[00:52:38] intentionally use simple words that were not inside our academic jargon of course the footnodes

[00:52:45] have stuff. So that most people could read it and understand who were invested in Bible study

[00:52:54] some academic maybe undergrad or like you're like a deacon or elder to church who'd like

[00:53:00] theology you could read it if you're a new believer I would probably wait on this for like five

[00:53:05] years it's just it's too much too soon. Just read something simpler on the Psalms yes but this is

[00:53:10] someone who wants to maybe preach think about the Psalms carefully it gives you an example of Psalms

[00:53:14] 108 109 and 110 of how to do it in the context the whole book of the Psalter so that you can do that

[00:53:21] with other Psalms one of the chapters I cut out was I had another other other sets of Psalms I

[00:53:25] was doing as well but I maybe I'll publish that in some other place but you it's just it's going

[00:53:30] to give you the examples and motivation to do it elsewhere. Okay yeah yeah actually was what like

[00:53:38] yeah I um it strikes me as yeah as pretty dang readable and so I was wondering if this was kind of

[00:53:44] more of a highly edited edited or simplified version of no it is sure work so I am persuaded

[00:53:53] that if a dissertation another some topics at a heart don't get me wrong but if a dissertation

[00:53:57] is not human readable to the average person and beautifully put it's like you didn't advance knowledge

[00:54:02] because it's it's in your head only yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:54:08] I know I don't want to like criticize someone who's just not so don't hear me wrong

[00:54:12] so I wrote it so that eventually I could give it to real to real people but of course you'll see

[00:54:18] in the footnotes and stuff it is it is heavily heavily academic and so it's not heavily edited

[00:54:24] because I um yeah I intentionally thought I want someone who's like a pastor

[00:54:31] who's interested enough to be able to benefit from it so it's the verbs are simple

[00:54:36] that like everything is I try to explain things without jargon why it's that's all so I there is jargon

[00:54:42] from time to time in it but mostly in the footnotes and I try to explain everything

[00:54:48] I would say it's probably written at a level of a commentary so it's elevated

[00:54:52] but it's not excessively elevated sure so I think I think elders could read I think Deacon's

[00:54:59] sending school teachers could if they're interested in sums already they would benefit

[00:55:03] and you don't have to be interested in someone to wait because it's written in such a way that

[00:55:07] you could apply this across the the can't this alter yeah to different sums yeah well yeah thanks

[00:55:13] very much um for yeah kind of yeah for writing it so that people like me can understand is

[00:55:20] the final question and we end nearly every interview with this uh so why we've heard about your

[00:55:25] first sermon but I'd like to hear about your your next sermon not not really what you're going

[00:55:31] to preach but like how would you want to preach next time that's a little bit better like what's

[00:55:36] an area that you're currently trying to do on Sunday yeah uh I'll tell you exactly how so I

[00:55:42] I preach a couple weeks on mark 13 which is like this yeah all of it discourse all of it discourse

[00:55:48] but it was it was practical in a sense but I just found it was for a lot of people like

[00:55:54] it's just it's just hard to understand so I'm preaching on the I want to just be really simple have

[00:55:59] great illustration stories practical and I'm preaching on the woman who had known

[00:56:03] Jesus his head called Mary elsewhere and Jesus says of her you have done a beautiful thing to me

[00:56:11] Greek word there's Kellos beautiful I just want to I want to be able to talk for a while

[00:56:15] what it means to do a beautiful thing and by contrast you just as an ugly thing

[00:56:21] and train him yeah and I think um although we use beauty and ugly almost as like our

[00:56:28] pejorative or like in a and sometimes like in the Instagram way those words are actually about

[00:56:35] attraction in general and about pushing away in general so Psalm 27 David says there's one

[00:56:42] thing that I long for let's say gaze at the Lord and the gaze of the beauty of the Lord

[00:56:47] and inquire after him and as to in his temple beauty attracts because it's good

[00:56:52] good Jesus I think is good and he attracts beautiful actions I think that's really important for us

[00:56:59] because whatever we do to another person we do into Jesus and Jesus is lovely and beautiful

[00:57:04] and good and therefore we are motivated to love our neighbor as ourself for example

[00:57:09] and we want to act beautifully so I'm going to give it to an illustrations and be really practical

[00:57:13] because I think my if I if I don't attempt to do that I am too detailed orientated

[00:57:21] where I'll give you a thousand like exegetical things yeah and I've come to realize

[00:57:29] I need to give sufficient exegetical detail to ensure that I've done my duty to explain the text

[00:57:34] to people but I need to give beyond that the most possible room to help what it means for you

[00:57:41] yeah yeah if you were to teach chapter 14 the way that you taught chapter 13 that would be

[00:57:48] dis yeah I wasn't doing injustice you wouldn't help anyone well yeah yeah if it's charts and if

[00:57:56] it's maps and if it's you know where does he does not do charts yeah well listen I grew up with

[00:58:02] charts all right I know you you're you're you're you're yes you you come by it honestly I get it

[00:58:07] yeah yeah but um but yeah there's there's certain ways to break down a complicated section like

[00:58:14] mark 13 that are necessary I think for those for those aspects of it but yeah you just want to

[00:58:21] yeah it's almost practical to explain it because it's so confusing where other passages it's more like

[00:58:27] practical to show how this works in practice absolutely yeah well thanks for yeah letting us in on

[00:58:33] that and um this this episode won't be released until you know uh down down the line so maybe we'll

[00:58:38] uh we'll include a link to your mark 14 to see to see if if you did it to see if you did a good job

[00:58:46] of highlighting the beauty and the ugliness uh that's present at that scene in that room

[00:58:53] sir good all right why it well uh thank you so much um in the links will be you know more

[00:58:58] ways people can connect with you um get this book look at your other stuff obviously we'll

[00:59:02] include a link to tgc canada and the great resources that you guys have been putting out that

[00:59:07] aren't only limited to Canadians um Irish Americans Senegal people all of everyone's able to get in on

[00:59:15] this and uh for the listeners of the podcast I hope that uh this episode and all that we do

[00:59:21] help you to grow in your personal study and public proclamation of God's word uh thanks again

[00:59:26] Wyatt thanks all right thanks for listening all the way to the end really appreciate it uh here's

[00:59:35] some follow ups that sermon that Wyatt preached on mark 14 you can find it in the link to the show

[00:59:42] notes if you want to hear how he eventually landed on communicating God's truth through mark 14

[00:59:49] the link of the show notes and then also maybe noticed it maybe you didn't we were speaking about a

[00:59:55] paper that I had to stay up until about 3 a.m. writing and uh I was hoping that the the greater

[01:00:02] wouldn't be able to tell and guess what I got an 88% on it so maybe you can celebrate with me

[01:00:10] maybe there's some fellow seminary students out there that know what it's like to pull an all-nighter

[01:00:18] and to get a semi-decent grade at the end so rejoice with me my fellow college students all right well

[01:00:27] if you've listened all the way to the end I really appreciate you uh this was a longer episode and

[01:00:34] I hope yeah whether it's a long episode or a short episode here at Expositors Collective

[01:00:39] that everything that we do would help you to grow in your personal study and public proclamation of

[01:00:46] God's word. I hope that you are subscribed because next Tuesday we've got a great panel discussion

[01:00:55] from our most recent California training event it was a lot of fun a lot of wisdom and if you're

[01:01:02] subscribed this will automatically show up to your phone or to your device also it helps us

[01:01:10] secure advertisers it would be a favor to me if you would subscribe to this podcast it costs you

[01:01:17] nothing but on the back end it really could help us to continue to get such great guests and even

[01:01:24] to be able to then cover some of our costs on the behind the scenes podcasting and then even the

[01:01:32] travel costs that are associated with these in-person training events all right thanks so much

[01:01:39] appreciate you see you next Tuesday this podcast is a part of CG and media a podcast network that

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