Prodigals

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[00:00:11] We trained him up the way he should go. He's not going that way. I thought you said God that he would go this way if I did all these things. And what happened? Did I not follow? Did I miss something on my checklist of raising these kids?

[00:00:27] Like we talked with the Proverbs, that's just a probability. That's not really helped me when I understood what that really meant is that I did my best. But I could and my sinful absolutely, but I have to ask my kids for forgiveness for many things I've done yes.

[00:00:41] But I did the best and you added what I could do. And I did it with God and I tried to be faithful in that. And when I realized like they have a saying this, the kids do. They have free will and that's on them.

[00:00:58] And that really freed me from that initial guilt of failure and judgment that I had in condemnation really that I had. Today our topic on the show is Chronicles. And we have all heard the story of the Chronicles son or the parable of the last son in Luke.

[00:01:18] It's a story of God's love, a story of repentance and forgiveness and redemption. And today we're going to take a little bit of a turn as I interview one of our team members. Christfox, hey Christfox and her son, eight in Hayden. Hello.

[00:01:35] As we just kind of take a look through this interview. As we can just see the perspective and hear your perspective not only as a parent but you too,

[00:01:49] Aden, just the stuff that you suffered and you've gone through during this sort of far from God season of life and experience. So welcome. I'm so glad you guys are here.

[00:02:00] So even let's start out with you and just tell me a little bit about like how you grew up. Yeah, I think since I was about ten years old around that my dad has been a pastor since that.

[00:02:14] So always been in and around the church, Christian schools, Bible College. So I've always been around the church and around other believers, you know, from Sunday school to school to my friends. I was pretty much constantly around, you know, other believers.

[00:02:36] And then we became missionary so you know, just even more so, but in another country. Right. So how old were you when you guys went to Brazil? I was, I believe I turned 12 like that same month we got there. I was around 12 years old.

[00:02:52] And then I left there when I was 18. So just saturated in God's word, Sunday school and church friends and ministry parents home school like just saturated in the world in the world. Not the world. We'll get to that. Yeah.

[00:03:13] And Chris this year a little bit about that experience for you just like raising your voice and the hopes you had for them. Yeah, it was so different than how I grew up because I didn't grow up in a Christian home.

[00:03:26] You know, we tried to get the church sometimes but I didn't have a relationship with Christ so I was in my early to mid 20s. So when we had our kids and we, I got saved and my husband went back to the Lord.

[00:03:38] Aiden was already a couple years old. Liam was a baby and we didn't really know how to do it. You know, we didn't know how to navigate in a biblical way. And so we did what we saw people around us doing.

[00:03:53] And then you know, a Kyle became a pastor and then we decided to home school. I was like, you know, I'm checking all the boxes. You know, you know, they're going to the parenting classes. I'm going with parenting classes.

[00:04:04] You know, all of the stuff Sunday school church involvement. I mean, anything you could think of we were doing it. Not just because that's what we wanted to do first but we just thought that was a good thing and it is a good thing. Right.

[00:04:23] And then did you think that you think when you were when you're raising your voice? Did you think that that was going to be this sure proof way? Because we always hear that scripture in Proverbs about, you know, raise your kids and then

[00:04:36] In the way they should go and they'll walk in it. And you think that it's like a promise which yes, I have some content with that because it's just a general. It's wisdom. Yeah, the probability. Yeah. But not a guarantee. Yeah.

[00:04:50] And so but sometimes we're raised in like that in the Christian circles of like, oh, this is a guarantee. Yeah. But you got to find out like this is not an opportunity. And I was shocked, honestly, when I found that out because I was like that.

[00:05:03] I was, I did think we're going to do all these things. It's so different than my testimony in Kyle's testimony where we were way in the world during our whole, you know, growing up. That we're completely different.

[00:05:15] These are boys had a completely different upbringing than we did and how could it not, you know, work out? And I remember when Eden was in, I think, it and you were in fourth grade. Maybe around there.

[00:05:29] He had this, I guess a little, a crisis of faith even, even then. I don't know if you remember, tell me, you know, I'll explain anything.

[00:05:37] Tell me if you remember or not, but we just started homeschooling and he was active in the youth group at the time and we had to help hunt this church.

[00:05:47] And one day he came to me, we were talking and it has always been really good about sharing emotions and talking. He's really just talked to that way and he was like, you know, I don't know if I believe in God. And this was in fourth grade.

[00:05:59] And I remember feeling heartbroken at the time and just like shocked. Like, how can you not? You know, like, oh, yes, you do. We have divisions. You've been baptized of your choice. You chose to be about it. You know, you're in Sunday's school.

[00:06:15] I'm like, I had to go through a whole life of all this and you're raised in like how. And it really for a little bit just kind of crushed me until I had to mentor out the time,

[00:06:26] I just said well, I meant for different things I was doing and countenize lives. And he was like, you know, if you break down and you just feel destroyed, that's the God image that your son is going to have.

[00:06:37] It's got not big enough to, you know, reach your son even at this young age. And so at that time, I was like, yeah, that's your of course God can't. And I remember very clearly praying, dropping to my knees and saying, okay, Lord, this is your kid.

[00:06:51] I'm going to put him on the altar, like Abraham did with Isaac and I'm going to take my hands off. You know, I put my hands back on and took him off the altar many times since then.

[00:07:00] And I do remember praying, like if it's four months, four years, four years, whatever, Lord, I'll keep praying. And not, and I also prayed. The person who was mentoring us had said, you know, pray with Adon.

[00:07:14] Lord showed me that your real and a way that Adon can understand. And so I prayed that and I talked to Adon about it and I prayed with Adon about it. Just with no guarantee, you know, when that would happen.

[00:07:28] And it wasn't very long after when he came to me and he was like, okay, I believe in God. And I prayed and like, what did you pray? And I've asked him so many times.

[00:07:36] And like, what happened? What did you pray? Like he was fourth grade, nine years old, ten years old. That he was like, I prayed, God showed me and I don't know what he prayed. He didn't remember. I don't know if you remember now.

[00:07:49] But something changed. And so he seemed good. He was like, okay, God showed me, I prayed for something. He showed me he was real. And then we just carried on. And I thought, all right, Lord, that wasn't as long as I thought.

[00:08:05] Yeah. Well, then it came back around in a different way. So Adon, when you're thinking about like, you know, just reflecting back on your life and do you feel like in those far away from God moments?

[00:08:20] Do you feel like there was a point where you didn't believe or did you always feel like I know he's real, but I'm just choosing to live this way? No, I definitely aside from that, which I'd hear remember in fourth grade.

[00:08:35] You do? Yeah, I remember that. I don't remember what I prayed. I remember, I always asked him. Yeah. And like, God didn't move a mountain and he did. But no, I've never doubted.

[00:08:49] I mean, we all struggled out now and again, I think I do, but now I never thought for a second, like God's definitely not real, so I can do whatever I want. It was more, yeah, I was just, I didn't care really if I'm being frank about it.

[00:09:09] I didn't, I had gone through things and didn't always start out with me being in God, but that is something that happened later on. And that probably contributed, but I think the bigger thing was I just didn't put much care to it.

[00:09:25] Right. So it'd become apathetic and then so if I don't care, then I'm not accountable. Right. If I did fight the care less, then I don't have to think about it.

[00:09:34] Yeah, and the more you go down that road, the easier it is to not feel any sort of conviction or bad about it. Like when you first start out, you're like, um, you know, I shouldn't have done that.

[00:09:47] And then the next few days are like, I shouldn't do that, but after a few weeks that feeling starts to go away,

[00:09:53] and then you don't even think about how, you know, any of the consequences or the fact that, you know, this probably frown upon, you know, that goes away.

[00:10:02] And then it paves the way if like bigger and worse things to happen, and then you start to not care about that. And it's a slow progression in the enemy uses it really well. I think when you get comfortable, yeah, he's really good about pushing you farther.

[00:10:18] My dad told me this one quote, it's, um, sin makes you stay longer than you ever wanted to and makes you go farther than you wanted to, which is true because, you know, when you start out, it would just be this this time or, yeah.

[00:10:30] And then, you know, that's what I'm on through to and like that whole thing is out the window and now it's like something new and worse and you're an even bigger hole, right? And you were, you wanted to go.

[00:10:41] Yeah, I think the end of that quote doesn't go on to say something like, and it's going to cost you more than you ever did. Because you don't realize like the cost of what that's like to walk away from God and walk into the enemy territory.

[00:10:57] Was there anything that like you can pinpoint that was like that turning point for you or was it more of like just that slow progression? It was mostly a slow progression, but no, there definitely was a time when everything started to go from bad to worse.

[00:11:16] And it's before this had happened and I'll get into this like before that had happened, you know, I was probably what most people would think is like a normal teenager, you know.

[00:11:28] I had gone into some trouble, you know, but I'll actually probably a little more trouble than most teenagers would have at that point, but I wasn't crazy, you know, yet per se, you know, I really want to use that word, but um.

[00:11:44] There was a point probably about a year into it as probably 19 maybe. Yeah, I think 19. I had lost my cousin, we grew up with her, I mean, I grew up with her, mostly, my brother was, you know, he's part of it.

[00:12:00] And then as we grew up, we sort of grew apart especially me going to Brazil, but you know, as I came back to the States, we, you know, started to reconnect, we got close. She's probably a year younger than me.

[00:12:12] So I'm a 19, she's 18 and um, you know, we're at the time. Yeah, at the time. And we're friends, you know, we're getting back into it. We're like almost best friends at this far, we're super close. Just like three or four things. Yeah.

[00:12:25] And then unfortunately, she, she was headed down to college in New Orleans and um, she was involved in a crash where a drunk driver hit their car. And she was killed on that night.

[00:12:38] And um, yeah, it was tough. She was 18, you know, just so excited to start college. One thing I do remember is she was at the time, the only thing that I would mess around if he really was, you know, I smoke everyone's in a while.

[00:12:54] And something big that she told me was she was going to stop when she got to college. She was going to be completely done with, you know, we'd or whatever.

[00:13:02] And I was big to me because she was like way more into it than I was. And that was like a big step that I saw her take before she left.

[00:13:11] And I was like, that's really cool and got me to also want to stop because she tried to, you know, get me to not do any of that anymore.

[00:13:20] So she took that step and then she gets down to the stage. She doesn't even make it to the campus. And she passes away. And um, I go to her grave's gravesite, you know. And it's not far from where we're staying out like 20 minutes maybe.

[00:13:35] Um, um, up in the mountains, you know, like I said, not far from our hangout spots. Um, and yeah, I'm just saying, out of a grave and then I just remember telling God that I, you know, hated what he did.

[00:13:49] Even though, you know, it's not like he did that, you know, he allows free will. Right, but there's anger in both of that.

[00:13:55] I let it definitely take over and it told my aid to them. And then I walked away from the grave and um, sort of just left all of that stuff there.

[00:14:03] And from this point on like I didn't know there was a big change but there definitely was um, a lot more sadness that I didn't think about until I had to.

[00:14:12] Until it was like, you know, almost struggling with my face. You know, I just suppressed it until someone happened. But yeah, I left a lot there at that grave. And I picked up a lot extra baggage that wasn't, you know, helpful at all. But um, right.

[00:14:26] That was definitely the biggest turning point. Well, and I think when you, when you hate something, I think also that brings in like almost a destructive behavior. You know what I mean? Like, well, I'm having these feelings of hate. And so why do I care?

[00:14:42] Like you said you become apathetic and then, and then the destructive behavior almost feels like a payout. You know what I mean? Like, well, it'll just be destructive with myself because I don't, you know, I've lost this. And so now I don't care about anything.

[00:14:56] So Chris, what was it like for you as a parent to walk through this time? Yeah, it was shocking because it wasn't what we saw of him growing up when he was at home and with us, you know, in Brazil.

[00:15:16] We didn't, there was none of this stuff. And I started seeing it a few months after he left to go back to the states and what I saw from my perspective at the time, you know, at the beginning, I saw maybe curiosity to some things that he wasn't exposed to before.

[00:15:33] And he kept the dialogue pretty open about certain things in the beginning at least like, hey, why is this bad? And, you know,

[00:15:42] and I don't know if you remember, but you're like, why is, you know, pot bath at alcohols not an alcohols legal or illegal and pot's legal in the state where he was in then.

[00:15:52] And he was just questioning a lot of this stuff. So I could see curiosity and I could see him hanging out with different people when he was back in the states that kind of helped encourage that curiosity.

[00:16:05] And so from afar, I could see him beginning to go down that. But it was shocking because any just continued to be shocking each month for about four years, three years.

[00:16:20] Especially the last year that he's talking about where he'd, you know, we lost my knees two years ago. And it's interesting to hear him say, you know, he was angry at God because at her funeral, he gave an amazing energy,

[00:16:35] and he was complete opposite at the time of hating God, I mean, angry at God. That came later. And at that moment, he was like certain he's like, there is a God, God isn't control of everything he's telling this church full of hundreds of people.

[00:16:54] There is a God, he has a plan and only God can do that in the heart of somebody that's hurting so bad. And at that point, actually, I wanted to say something about it. Yes, the week, maybe two weeks, right after it happened,

[00:17:09] I mean, it was obviously just a horrible time. I didn't go to work that morning and so my boss he fired me because of that.

[00:17:16] And so it was just a terrible day. But, you know, I go back to Colorado and I don't remember exactly details about what I did, but now I knew that I wasn't going to probably make it through this by myself.

[00:17:30] I remember just sitting like in the bathroom praying and I got this crazy power from God the next week and a half, and that part just like peace, like that wasn't like tearing me apart.

[00:17:43] Because we were like, brother and sister, so it was really really hard, especially that first one week, two weeks, and he gave me that strength, I think to... Peace is, sir, that's our understanding. That's exactly what he did.

[00:17:55] Yes, and to share his faithfulness in the hardest time of our lives in front of publicly, in front of so many people, I mean, that is only... Yes, that was all we thought. I can't even take credit for praying for that because he...

[00:18:13] But that he's just performing with us, and so I was able to stay strong for the family and give that ulogy, which God also probably just took over. I remember I wrote down a few notes, but I don't know, God gave me words when I got up there.

[00:18:28] And I'm... That's incredible. Unfortunately, let that go, you know, a few weeks after I just... Well, the enemy comes in and we're weak, right? Who does he pick off? Right. You know, it's the sheep that are sort of, you know, the stragglers at the end or isolated,

[00:18:43] or those little things that we're doing. And I think that's... Where it really got hard for aid into because after that, monumental trauma in our family, he did come back home with us to Brazil for the summer before he started university.

[00:18:57] And things were okay, there are things, you know, from what I could see, he might have... I don't know, maybe that's another thing. Maybe just a true confession.

[00:19:05] But he seemed to be doing okay and then went off to college, and then I noticed, I think, around his birthday, because their birthdays are within a week of each other, him and his cousin.

[00:19:15] And I think I noticed it, get very significantly bad about the time he's talking. And I think that's when you went to go visit our gravesite and then that anger and the self-destruction.

[00:19:28] It was like from a parent point of view, we were getting a phone call, it seemed like every other month. It was like labor pains almost like, there... Before that, you know, we'd hear a couple things here and there, we were concerned and alarmed.

[00:19:41] But when it got to this part, you know, that year, we were just in distracted, full of distracted mode. It was like these labor pains of okay, there's a couple months, you know, we'd get a phone call.

[00:19:53] It was not doing good, something's happening, and then it got closer together. Whereas, then we'd give you a phone call every month, every couple weeks from, you know, from the school, from his friends,

[00:20:04] from his girlfriend that, you know, serious things, you know, overdosing, suicide all thoughts and ideation. And things that were pulling us from Brazil to come back to be there for him. And it was very little relief in between, and it was scary. Unimaginable fear. Right.

[00:20:24] That's every time we answer the phone, every time I saw a message from somebody that knew him. What, you know, I just, you just pray like Lord don't take him. Right. So now what was the, what was the turning point for you?

[00:20:39] Eight and I don't know if it was like, it finally was like this, the biggest destruction that brought you back. But what, what was it? Was there something that brought you back to the Lord? Yeah, my U-turn. Oh, I'm in excellent. Good on you, turn. Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:56] At U-turn, um, it's a, for people who don't know, it's its Ministry of Restoration is what they call it. And, um, you know, you can go there for all sorts of different problems. And I went there obviously for addiction purposes.

[00:21:10] It's a two month commitment and it's not like other rehabs that have been to, um, it's completely different. Most rehabs you sit there in your, uh, sweatpants and you talk about drugs all day. And then you do some arts and crafts at the end.

[00:21:26] Um, and they also, you know, give you whatever meds you ask for, like pretty much. Um, here at this place, they won't give you a Tylenol at all.

[00:21:35] Like if, if you're really going through battle with drugs, a cold shower, and maybe you get an extra, uh, fourth day to rest. But after that, your two work at 5am, which sounds bad, but it was super helpful. It's been a few days. I keep it. They're struggling.

[00:21:49] Yeah. But anyways, like a place like that, and the person I was at the time that it didn't mix well. Because I was living such an undisciplined life, and this place is only discipline rules about everything. Right. Which is why it works. Yeah, you can't weigh yourself.

[00:22:04] You can't, um, you can't go into the kitchen. You really, there's nothing you can do besides exactly what they tell you. And so I was not having that all because I'm used to doing what I want when I want technically. You know what I mean? Right.

[00:22:16] I mean, that's how it all. It's all of our problems. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I was so efficient, whatnot. But I get to this place and like once a week, I'm taking off, like, men that are hot defense and try to leave.

[00:22:27] And it's in a Paris, California, which, um, sorry. Anyone live there? But, you know, it's not the greatest place. We're just in the desert. I mean, there's probably a, they got a dollar store like five miles into the desert or something. But other than that, nothing.

[00:22:43] And so, but still, it's not me. Yeah. We were still getting those phone calls. I thought for sure. Okay. Is that you turn now? You know, we're active in ministry. We're all over the place. You're not coming in. Yeah. And why, why do you not lock the door?

[00:22:58] And then we were getting calls in like every week. It was just closer and closer together and tell, you know, you came back to cry. Those guys at the end of the, really, really good people for trying to, not trying to keep me there.

[00:23:13] But also letting me come back afterward because, you know, that's what happens. It's the grace. Yeah. Grace upon grace upon grace. Because Aiden was at that point really with us of you are going back there or you have the streets.

[00:23:25] You know, that's how it, how far it was. I wasn't alone home at all. Which is actually where I had my turning point for the better with God. I think the third and final time where I made my greatest cave.

[00:23:41] And um, you know, I found, so there's no phones. I've got a lot. Obviously, but I found my way home. It's like 30 minutes away and I've only been there once or twice. So that was a miracle. And so I found my way there. I got a bus.

[00:23:58] I got another bus and then I walked a lot. But um, I made it home. And I knew I wasn't welcome there. But I also knew that they were on vacation because someone had told me that they weren't going to be there.

[00:24:09] Just like, okay, if I get a few days at home, chill and then, you know, I didn't know how to go back. Yeah. I really have a plan. But um, right? Now, it's about to hear in the now.

[00:24:18] That's what most, um, I was surprised when he found it back to the house this couple of times because we just moved here from Brazil and he'd been there twice. So yeah. So I make it home.

[00:24:32] I didn't think it was there and so I'm trying to figure out a way to hurry again. And here. But then my brother finally lets me in and he doesn't let me in. He comes outside and he's like, you can't come in.

[00:24:41] And it was crazy to hear you a little brother say, you can't come in. I hear him like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I can't come in here. Um, it was good because I had just, I just had like a track that lasted 12 hours.

[00:24:53] Like, I'm taking buses and then walking. So I'm in no position to try to argue or fight or whatever something. All right. I'm just going to hang out on the back yard. But um, you know, we talk, you let's me in. We have dinner that night.

[00:25:05] Um, and I'm just praying there. I'm just laying there on the ground. Cause I'm not allowed to go to my room for some reason. But I'm not allowed to. I don't know how to go there. So I got a sleeping living room.

[00:25:17] He's sleeping over there and I'm like, you know, not obviously, I was sad. But, you know, I got myself in the position. So I wasn't like tearing myself up. Me and I probably should have been, you know. But um, I remember praying.

[00:25:30] I was like, God, why this keeps happening. I'm just going to a big huge circle and it's not like if it's up to me. I'm not doing, I'm not going back to you turn. I was 100% in my mind. That's another thing I forgot to say.

[00:25:43] When I got home, I was like, I don't care what they say or what they do. Like even if I'm not allowed home, okay, I'm not. I'm just not going back to you, sir. You know, they're talking about it. Trying to get me to go back.

[00:25:56] But, you know, I'm like, I don't want to. And so that night, I don't remember if it was before we went to bed or like, we were getting ready to do that. And I'm praying. I'm like, God, this is going to end really badly for me because

[00:26:08] you know, that's, I don't know. Every time you go back into the world after trying to get sober, it's like tenfold as bad as it was before. That's what they say. And so I knew that, you know, if I were to leave home and knock back to you,

[00:26:21] turn it doesn't mean it'd be pretty bad, you know, whatever happened, it would not be very good. And so, you know, I told them that, and I was scared of that. I really don't want this to happen. You know, I don't like being alone out there, you know,

[00:26:35] but it's hard to explain. I just felt like, you know, everyone talks with a few of the friends who have gotten, I really feel like I did, but what I felt was not fear, like as I'm scared and died, but like, fear, like he's so big

[00:26:52] and he, and I feel him around. Like, the fear was more, more like, I knew that everything that I had done in my life, you know, God was there and he saw it, you know. And he realizing that he was real in that moment

[00:27:11] meant like all the things I did before and he saw me doing what just so bad. It was a little bit scary because if God is real then, you know, he knows everything about me and things that people don't know about me.

[00:27:24] You know, his hands in the house and, you know, that scared me because I guess I had this part of me that was like, you know, maybe God isn't real at the end of the day. Maybe, you know, maybe he's not, but it was just a small part

[00:27:37] and then that kind of went away and like a split second and a scary to sort of sit there and be like, wow, he's huge. Like, every breath I take is only because he lets me. And like if you were to some for some reason

[00:27:48] stop letting me take breath right now, I'll just die. Right. And so it was very interesting to see how big he was but like also feel it because I never had that before. But it's so incredible that you're describing that because if you read the parable of the

[00:28:05] the prodigal son, that's what, that's the was the description right? He went out. He wasted his life and then he thought about God and in his immediate response and I love this said the son didn't feel worthy. He said, I'm not worthy to be your son.

[00:28:22] I will be like a hired servant and just the beauty of that and in that son coming and saying, I don't feel worthy. Like I can be your son. Can I just be your servant and just that humbleness to come back and just the to serve a God

[00:28:40] that calls us sons and daughters and you're saying like he's so big like to realize the vastness and the majesty of God like you're describing reverence you know that like you revered God as this authority in your life and that's exactly what the prodigal son is describing

[00:29:03] it just is really, really incredible. You know and it says in that scripture the father had compassion on him. So here was this thing here was him wasting his life and yet the father had compassion you know that he did and then the father says

[00:29:23] bring the best robe like you know you don't deserve that and then for someone to turn around and go I'm going to bring you the best robe we're going to have the best celebration I'm going to bring you like like a fatten calf

[00:29:38] as what they said in the story this was a worthy celebration and the other brother got a little bit irritated with that because he's like wait I've been doing all this stuff and he's like yes but my son was dead and now he's alive and that was enough

[00:29:54] like the fact that he went from death to life like that was enough to bring his best to you like how incredible is that that's awesome yeah that's really cool to think about it was so neat after that point with 8 and 2 everybody could see the difference

[00:30:10] and it wasn't like something he was trying to manipulate or fake just to get back into the program because you can't force yourself into submission especially in a place like you turn and have a heart of repentance that only comes from the Lord so they started seeing it

[00:30:32] they were telling us we started seeing it and we would go and visit 8 and he was just quoting scripture after scripture and it was just like this wealth of knowledge that was just flowing out of him and it was amazing so that homeschooling

[00:30:48] see it and you might not know math but you know you do know the Bible because the Christophe did you guys do in the way they because I think a lot of parents that are in the middle of this far away from God's season like where's the hope

[00:31:04] because at some point did you feel hopeless I was just like you're hanging on by a threat yeah all of that I felt all of that and it just kind of progressed each year because each even each month got worse and worse and worse and

[00:31:18] from where we were standing like this only leads and we've told they didn't this before like it ends in death or it ends in prison or you know both and so it was so hard there was a lot of things I had to fight through in the beginning

[00:31:35] fighting through you know feeling like a failure you know and because that was your fall yeah I didn't do something like yeah and I think that's very natural thing for parents to go to like what did I do wrong where did I mess up

[00:31:53] that you know he's out there and doing all this stuff and clearly something was wrong and you know that's not true but then you know that provost verse that you you quoted it gets misused all the time even in our own minds were like well

[00:32:08] we trained him up the way he's not going that way I thought you said God that he would go this way if I did all these things and what happened did I not follow did I miss something on my checklist of raising these kids and it was hurtful

[00:32:24] it was really hard because you would see you know families that were doing well and you know people would be like well they just did a great job with their kids not knowing the situation we were in but then thinking oh my gosh

[00:32:37] that mean I didn't do a great job and you know it's not about as but I learned a lot I learned first like we talked with the proverbs that's just probability that's that really helped me when I understood what that really meant is that I did my best

[00:32:51] that I could and my sinful absolutely so that I have to ask my kids for forgiveness for many things I've done yes but I did the best and you had it what I what I could do and I did it with God and I try to be faithful

[00:33:07] and don't I've heard of one or two 18 years I'm, you know, I've heard of one or two in 18 years. I must really be messed up, you know, miss something. But there's not a formula to go through. So kind of transition from feeling like a failure

[00:33:47] and guilty to just being terrified really about Kim Dine. Yeah. And then it came to a place where I was like, you know, this is your kid Lord. You love him more than I do. Am I going to trust you?

[00:34:07] And am I going to trust you no matter what you do? And I decided I'm going to trust God and I did. And I didn't know how it was going to go with Ada. And I knew it was going bad during that time.

[00:34:19] And I just trusted him and I prayed and I would pray and I would fast for him when he was in the U-turn. I think the first month is so I took a day week and would fast and pray for him. Oh, it's a good one.

[00:34:31] And but it didn't take away the feelings like I can't tell you the heartache. It really feels like someone's stabbing you in the heart when you get those phone calls. And like it's terrible. I don't wish that on anybody.

[00:34:44] But I do know lots of people are going through it and talking to people help too, knowing that I wasn't alone and that there's other people who have in leadership, pastors, kids, missionaries, kids, that have gone through it, that have done parented the best they could.

[00:35:05] As the Bible says and their kids still went through it, that really helped me too. I'm not alone. These kids are making these grown-up kids are making their own choices. But it didn't save me from the heartache. Like you can't get around that. No.

[00:35:21] And I mean, we all go through suffering and everybody goes through in different ways and different forms. God said we would suffer on this earth. We know that but going through it is so, especially when you're talking about your kids. It's just like so well hurtful.

[00:35:35] I also remember very vividly. I don't know if eight-end remembers this, but I remember telling him and just committee, I'm like, I'm not handing this kid over to Satan. He was 19 at the time, 18, 19 with things began to go off the track and I remember and I told him,

[00:35:52] I was like, I'm not handing you over without a fight. And so I decided very early, I'm gonna fight for him and with him as long as he wanted me to. You know, there comes a time in different people's life where the kids stopped listening or stopped talking.

[00:36:07] You know that never was the case with eight-end. He listened, didn't mean he did it things, but he was at least listening and talking to us. He's still had a relationship. We still had a good relationship because he wasn't re-bowing against us. He was re-bowing against God.

[00:36:22] And I just committed and just very clearly I was like, I'm not handing him over to Satan. I without a fight and I fought. Any way I could, I fought for him. Right, right. Because I thought, and without enabling because I walked through a portion of that one.

[00:36:38] You guys, and I remember you guys setting pretty clear boundaries like you're saying I wasn't allowed in the house. Like you guys set some pretty good guidelines and that's really hard too. I can imagine, and I'd like to ask, Adon was that helpful.

[00:36:54] Like the things that they did was that helpful to your recovery, like if you could talk to the parents of a protocol, like what advice would you give them and what they should be doing during that waiting time? I didn't like Adon time, but I'm sure, yeah,

[00:37:14] I'm a son of a century, it was helpful. If I had the choice not to be at you turn and go home, I definitely would not spend a second at you turn. So yeah, it was very helpful. And yet that was the turning point.

[00:37:30] So think about the enemy. Where did he not want you to be? Where are you we're gonna get help? Exactly. You had said to me earlier, and we were talking about this of letting the protocols and the people setting them up to have their own relationship with God.

[00:37:47] Yeah, that's something, one lines of that. But they have to figure this out on their own. That's the only thing, all the meetings and all the different things for addiction, I've been to the one thing I've learned. And I think it's pretty true is you have to,

[00:38:07] and it doesn't have to be addiction, I guess. I'm just whatever you may be struggling with. You have to want to change. It doesn't, it's pretty simple. You don't have to do much else besides at least want to change and that's a good start.

[00:38:22] You know, if parents can somehow set up a way where they can find God on their own, not through them, not through something their parents told them to do, or I said, you should do this, or do this, and you'll get this.

[00:38:38] But they should seek God out, like Devils says, if you knock, because they'll all be answered. They need to seek God so that he can draw near to them on their own without being, I think we're prompted, but without much more than that.

[00:38:59] They need to do that on their own. And also another thing piece of advice maybe from my side, because I only have my side, and I do have a daughter, but she's only seven months old. And so she might be the kid to sit on that.

[00:39:14] She's like, but from my side, the way that I was brought up and things in my parents did had pretty much nothing to do with the things I was doing. And all, in my opinion, it comes down to free will, and we all have this like, sin nature.

[00:39:32] And like very simply, I just wanted to do this. It made me feel good. I enjoyed it better than not doing that. Yeah, I enjoyed it better and I feel good. It was what I wanted to do. And so I was going to do it.

[00:39:48] You were not raising a Christian household and you where I will find your way to God. I was raised in a Christian household, one away came back. So there's all different types of ways, but God's going to get what he wants. And his word doesn't ever return void.

[00:40:05] He meant it that. Yeah, and so no matter what I'm doing or where I go, since I was little, I have this word in my head from my dad, in the back of the sanctuary probably just playing video games on my phone.

[00:40:18] But I still remember it, and it's stuff that comes to mind. And I can share with other people when people say, how do you change? Like, you're the guy who, you were in jail, right? Like, you were doing this stuff. You were this guy, right?

[00:40:31] And I was, and then maybe like, how'd you change? Like, give me the opportunity to share, like, I didn't do anything. It's a coolest part. Like, I didn't wait until I lost everything, which is what happens to most people,

[00:40:46] and they only want to change when they've lost everything. They lose their job kids, family, whatever. I didn't have to get there because God stepped in for me. And I didn't have to get to the end of the road where everything's gone.

[00:41:02] I was able to, you know, God let me put my faith in him because I didn't have much to begin with. But he really, when I think your parents put you in pools too that, you know, for lack of a better terminology,

[00:41:17] where you were hearing the word of God, faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. And so when you're hearing it, whether you want to hear it or not, like you said it doesn't return void, like those are the best places, you know,

[00:41:29] often we'll have people in the church that like don't bring their kids to church. They'll come to church or leave in their kids at home. And my question is always why, if God said his word doesn't return void, even if they don't want to be there,

[00:41:42] shouldn't they be somewhere where they're hearing the word of God? It's our best hope, you know? And that's what it comes down to is this hope, like as parents too, of kids who stray or whatever they're doing, like we have this hope in Jesus.

[00:41:57] And I was so blessed when I heard it and share his, just a little bit with a different family back in Colorado. And you know, he was just saying, well, maybe you could say it better, but he was explaining like those things,

[00:42:11] those seeds that they planted in their child, growing up because their child had gone far as well. Well, won't be without, you know, root of some kind. And he could hear it from a kid who literally was just getting out of jail, they picked him up from jail.

[00:42:29] Actually, and they say he stayed the night there and he just got a chance to talk. And it was such a blessing for us as parents to get a message from them to say listen, well, he's welcome here any time whereas the last couple years he had

[00:42:43] and been welcome in many places and to offer encouragement to that family like, you know, they she's hearing you, you know, your daughter or your son's hearing you. And we don't know what they're hearing, what, you know, what is growing in their heart.

[00:42:59] But like you said, Brenda, like we need to keep doing it and have hope that God will change things. You know, as parents, we never knew how long this was gonna go. You know, we didn't, we had no idea.

[00:43:16] But we had hope that one way or the other God was going to have his way in Aden. And we pray that it wouldn't be through death and, you know, we wanted to see it here and that's a hard prayer. Yeah, that's a hard thing. Yeah.

[00:43:32] But some of the hope is just if your child knows like you knew the Lord, you have the Holy Spirit within you so in that sealed and so salvation wise, there's nothing we could do to be separated from God and what a hope

[00:43:47] that brings to people like no I know my kid accepted the Lord at seven. Then we have that hope, like no matter what else, like you belong to God. And I talked to a lot of protocols that have said in the past, like even in their farthest moment,

[00:44:01] the Holy Spirit still there, like providing, you know, we can turn it off and you were saying you're apathetic to it, you don't care. But the Holy Spirit still there, like, a glimpse of the Word of God or a passage or something.

[00:44:15] Did you experience that the whole time? Yeah, that's what most people say. Yeah, I experienced that for sure. For parents who are going through something like this, something that my hope is, you know, like for me, it was always, and I look back on this

[00:44:33] and that's how I know this. But if it had gone in the other way, like if I don't know, this was God's plan and the only way for me to be where I am now and like sober and working towards, you know,

[00:44:46] getting married and being with my daughter and all this stuff, the only reason I'm here is because of how everything went exactly the way it did because God's plan, I think, was so perfect. I needed to be humble, I needed to go through

[00:44:58] a bunch of different things to get to where I am and it all happened like so perfectly. It didn't seem like it then, but it's not like anyone else's job to save me, you know what I mean? It's the only God can do that

[00:45:11] and he will do that, like I said, God's gonna win no matter what. And this was his plan and not that if someone had jumped in and tried to help or something that it would have not worked, but God's plan is so perfect to get me here

[00:45:23] and it's the same with everyone else who's like, straying right now. They need to go through all this stuff they're going through because I think there's a big lesson for them to learn. Like I learned huge things every time something bad happened that brought me back

[00:45:40] and I still use this day as a reference or something that I know like God did for me that I can share with other people. Right. He uses it all, it might not be his perfect will for us to go through those things,

[00:45:54] but he definitely can use that to encourage any of your people. You know, for parents too, like as the protocol walks through this, you learn a lot about your spiritual life as well as a parent walking through this. I know for me for a long time,

[00:46:08] I was praying for Aiden. I was praying for him to be sober and healthy and relationship with God that then when things got really bad, the Lord just revealed like he's like, are you really praying for his relationship with me or are you praying for it?

[00:46:23] You just do not feel so hurt. And is it just gonna be easier for you if Aiden is clean and you know, that's easier for you. You're the mom-old child. Yeah, it's easier for you. If he looks like this because then it doesn't hurt you so bad.

[00:46:36] So in actuality it was a super selfish prayer and I had to really confront them like, yeah, of course he's hearing this, but the Lord's like you're not praying in the right way for him. And I was praying just to alleviate my pain because it hurt so bad.

[00:46:51] Then just, but it wasn't praying really as I needed to be for his soul. Yeah, for his soul. Like just help the behavior and help me, I don't, cause honestly I didn't wanna feel that pain anymore. And the Lord changed that and I was just realized, wow,

[00:47:11] you can be even selfish and somewhat else's issues. And yeah, well thank you so much for just sharing your story. Yeah, would you have a life first that you haven't had love for you to share that? Yeah. That is what we close up.

[00:47:29] Okay, so yeah, I found this life first in U-turn and for me it kind of sums up what God did. It's Ephesians 2, a star set, verse 3. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts.

[00:47:51] Like the rest we were by nature, deserving of wrath, but God because of his great love for us, whose rich and mercy made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our transgressions as by grace that he had been saved. Amen to that.

[00:48:06] And while I want a great verse, yeah. That's a great life first and one that you'll carry with you for ever and share with your daughter. Is it so well? Your other children beyond that? I can't wait. Yeah, and so thank you so much, Aiden.

[00:48:20] For being so vulnerable and honest and YouTube Christa, I'm sure this is just going to bring hope too. I have a lot of different people. So thanks for sharing. All right, well thanks for joining us today. We hope that this content is helpful.

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