Sharing the Teaching Ministry | Rob Salvato & Ted Leavenworth

[00:00:03] Hello and welcome to the Leadership Collective Podcast around table discussion with proven leaders designed to bring you access and insights into the nuts and bolts of Church Leadership.

[00:00:16] One thing I look for is looking for guys that I can tell really have a heart for our body, and it's not just somebody who wants to talk, and even though they might be gifted at it, you know. They might really have something to say,

[00:00:32] but they're just looking for a platform. I'm looking for somebody who I see yes has something to say, but who really has a heart and a passion for our body, and it's seen in the way that they engage.

[00:00:47] Well today on the Leadership Collective Ted and I are flying solo again for a bonus episode on sharing the Teaching Ministry with our Ministry teams. And Ted and I have both seen the value in sharing the Teaching responsibilities with capable men on our Ministry teams,

[00:01:07] but sharing the pulpit is not something that has been modeled that much in our Calvary Chapel movement.

[00:01:13] And so today Ted and I are going to talk about how the housing wise of Team Teaching and the benefits that we've seen in our Church and in our staff in doing this. Ted, how excited are you about this conversation today?

[00:01:29] I'm actually excited about it. Rob, it has been an interesting year for me. I mean leading up to this, we've always valued having varied voices in the pulpit and by varied voices. I'm talking specifically about the elders of our Church that you know,

[00:01:53] as most Calvary Chapel, so I think I do the majority of the Teaching here. But we've always valued that there's a wisdom and a multitude of counselors,

[00:02:03] and it's healthy to have different guys. You know, your congregation, no, especially you have multiple pastors on staff is both you and I do.

[00:02:14] And we recognize too there's a lot of churches that don't have multiple pastors on staff, but I think it's important the congregation gets us to know the guys that they are fed by the pastors

[00:02:28] and that it informs so many other things. You know when when you're being fed by somebody, I know you deal with this people call the Church office. They're going through some crisis. They want counseling and who do they want to talk to? They want to talk to you.

[00:02:42] You know, and it helps when they get to know the other pastors on staff that they realize, oh there's other people who actually know Jesus and have wisdom and discernment and they're open to the reason.

[00:02:55] There's a lot of benefits from that, but yeah this year especially, you know, I start off the year with an illness and you know,

[00:03:03] COVID got me, you know, it was in the hospital for extended period time and so you know I missed the first seven weeks of the year. Longest consecutive time I've ever been out of the pulpit in the Church group.

[00:03:18] And the Church group, right? People are like, well finally we've got some good teas and we can. Yeah but yeah the subject definitely excites me. You know when we talk about this and you know for as long as as, you know,

[00:03:32] I've been you know sharing the pulpit here and in, you know this church, you've actually been doing it longer. You know so yeah what did you learn? Well it's here about that.

[00:03:43] Yeah well you know it's interesting because I think I've been the lead pastor at Calrevisse enough for 26 years and I'd say for probably the first 10 years

[00:03:54] I did what most Calre Chapel pastors would do whenever I was going to be gone whether it was on a mission trip or speaking somewhere else

[00:04:02] Or even you know taking a vacation, I would have somebody come in, you know I'd get another pastor to come in from another church and somebody that I knew was really going to be a blessing to, you know, our body.

[00:04:18] And they would always do a really, really great job and that was you know kind of the norm. I think that's what a lot of the guys you know 10 to do

[00:04:28] But it was interesting because about 13 years ago I had a guy on my staff that some of our listeners I think would recognize his name as name is Charlie Campbell

[00:04:39] And he was leading our young adults ministry in our school of ministry at that time and Charlie just has an incredible heart for evangelism, or excuse me for apologetics.

[00:04:53] And he is, has an apologetics ministry now but he did these incredible just a apologetic talk so anytime I was gone I would have Charlie step in and he would do one of his you know talks on something

[00:05:07] And it was so different from what I was doing and teaching expositionally and just even his style and approach and it was so informative you know that our church loved it.

[00:05:18] And in fact I started having guys that would ask me, I'm going to be gone I need somebody to feel the public can you recommend somebody and I'd recommend Charlie and it's turned into a full time gig for me now, you know he's in about 45 pulpits a year every single Sunday

[00:05:37] We had him out here not to go just doesn't an incredible job so it started with with Charlie but then about nine or ten years ago I made a shift when I saw on the calendar there were going to be some Sundays that I was going to miss and so I decided you know what I've been listening to some of my youth guys in our staff meetings share and they really just had great

[00:06:05] things to say and and I thought you know our body needs to hear these guys and still I started putting you know given those guys an opportunity to teach on a Sunday

[00:06:20] And there were two things that happened one our body just really really appreciated the fact that you know they were hearing from these guys and I remember parents would come to me and go I can't believe that these are the guys that are teaching

[00:06:34] I'm not a kid you know and so it created this you know a sense of man I want my kids to be in youth group I want my kids to be hearing and listening you know to that guy

[00:06:46] And it also I think really bolstered our sense of team you know in the sense that it wasn't just me you know caring the ball here

[00:06:57] It's funny when my son taught for me when he was on staff I literally had people come up to me and go you can retire now

[00:07:06] They were just so impressed with him because he has a great you know teaching gift but you know and I would just say this as well, you know you mentioned the guys that might be listening this that don't have a staff

[00:07:21] I would venture to say though you probably have some capable elders, you know who could who could step in and fill in and I have just come to really see the value of an appreciate and I think our body has come to see the value on appreciate

[00:07:38] The idea that there can be multiple voices. Yeah, what's your experience been like yeah well I you know as you had talked about the congregations reaction

[00:07:51] That's part of the experience is that it's healthy it's beneficial for the congregation to see into here the pastors the other pastors of the church teaching It's a good it's good for us to develop our guys and you know for those that have folks that

[00:08:16] Maybe they're not ready for Sunday morning. Okay, you can you can begin developing guys in home Bible studies you can begin developing them if you have a midweek study and you know maybe some of these lower threshold issues

[00:08:34] My experience is that the you know we part of the discipleship process is teaching teaching guys how to teach to be able to take the time to be able to listen to their messages maybe even

[00:08:49] Be able to review with them. It's gotten harder for me now to review my guys messages when they're preaching when I'm out and so

[00:08:57] You know, I've I've reached out to Mike Meiglia from the expositors collective and and you know he and I've been friends for a long time So I said hey look

[00:09:07] You know he knows the guys on staff here. I said would you would you actually make a point of listening to their messages and giving them feedback

[00:09:14] And because I think that's important too that these these guy because we're not only are they gifted but we want to help them grow in their gifting. Yeah, so leaning into that you know I would say on that though too I would put this reservation because

[00:09:33] I was taught You know the pulpit is a sacred place, right and it needs to be guarded. Oh, yeah, so you know I'm not going to just throw anybody in there and I'm not going to experiment with

[00:09:47] Somebody either, especially on a Sunday morning right. No, let's just let's see if this guy can teach now. Right. You know, I think that is just not not the right way to approach it on any level right. No

[00:09:58] I don't I encourage you know my youth guys when they want to give somebody opportunity to teach I tell them don't don't do that at one of your main

[00:10:08] You know gatherings that that you're going to have but so for me, you know, I'll do that. I'll experiment at a staff meeting

[00:10:16] You know our staff is usually working through something together and so I'll I'll chart out, you know this guy's going to share on this particular day

[00:10:26] And you know maybe the next step if I see like oh, something this guy has something to say, you know, I might have him do a Sunday night Or choose me a Wednesday night with me. You should do Sunday nights a lot

[00:10:38] With guys when we were doing Sunday night service and just giving them you know the the opportunity to grow in that and I also I love giving him a time frame. Yeah

[00:10:50] You know like I'll say okay, I want you to teach on this day. You've got 30 minutes and you know sometimes that's a struggle right you know, but it's learning it's learning that Yeah, that is part of the process and you know like for us

[00:11:08] We have made the distinction here at Reliance Church that Sunday is reserved for the elders of the church. Yeah, the teaching This is this is primarily when the elders of the church are teaching doctrine and authoritatively leading and teaching the flock

[00:11:31] So you're not going to you know see you know at least here in practice You're not going to see you know somebody who's you know just beginning in ministry. You're not going to see anybody who's not an elder preaching

[00:11:43] Right from the pulpit on Sunday and that and so that's the distinction for us, but like you said there's great opportunity And you know a staff meeting a prayer meeting a midweek, you know prayer gathering or what

[00:11:58] Your ship gathering you know there's there's multitude of events where we can go hey this is so we just recently done that with with the guy on staff who's not one of our pastors not an elders not

[00:12:12] You know paid in a teaching role, but we recognize that the Lord's hand is on him and so Give him the opportunity and one of those other events where it's not going to be You know the role of an elder, it's not going to be

[00:12:28] Before all the congregation would have you you know youth events things like that Ted what do you think the reluctance is in some guys to not want to do this? Oh man there's a lot of things one of the things people are worried about I think is that

[00:12:44] You know I have to do this sometimes guys are worried like well gosh if if I'm not the one who's there if I'm not the one who's leading The people aren't going to come you know we recently did an episode With a couple of church planners and and

[00:13:07] You know one of them was mentioning the the the pressure you know of Performance and success and you know what was going to define the you know the how quality played such a profound role in everything that he did

[00:13:24] And you'll recall his his testimony was that through the You know the washing machine that is COVID he kind of came away from it's not so much about the quality It's about the faithfulness and some about the fruit, you know, it's not about the numbers

[00:13:40] And so I think maybe that's sometimes people who can get to the place where they think no it's got to be me and it's got to be good And guys put a lot of pressure on themselves and you know how that is like you preach

[00:13:53] You want to you want to preach a grand slam message And then you preach a message and it's like wow that was a grand slam and then you're like all next week's got to be a grand slam to you know

[00:14:04] This is this treadmill you can and you just can't do it. You can hit a grand slam every time you're going to strike out sometimes You know it's interesting I remember hearing from a pastor who

[00:14:19] You know I think somebody that a lot of us would look up to I'm not going to say it's his name, but We're up salt bottom. No, but but this guy he preached at his church on a Wednesday night

[00:14:34] On Thursday he jumped on a plane flew to Europe Which got him there on Friday He landed Friday morning and did a whole Day of teaching at a conference there and then on Saturday morning jumped back on a plane and flew all the way back home

[00:14:59] Just so he could be at church on Sunday morning. Yeah, and I remember the first time that you know when I heard that I thought you know how heroic

[00:15:06] You know, I mean that was like like I mean, it's all I thought back then like wow you know, that's amazing And I remember I tried that once where I was scheduled to fly back from Russia

[00:15:17] And the problem with me is I cannot sleep on airplanes so you know that 20 hour 25 hour 30 hour of travel I'm going to be awake the whole time, but I was landing in San Diego on a Wednesday at like four o'clock in the afternoon

[00:15:35] And I thought perfect. I'll just you know grab something eat. I'll go straight to church and I'll do the evening service that night Which I did and I guarantee you I preached some heresy that night because I had no idea I was so delirious

[00:15:48] I had no idea and I remember stepping away from that and going, that was so stupid right why did I do that when there are capable guys here who could have

[00:15:59] Done a fantastic job of delivering but but I had that sense. Well this is what I'm just supposed to do

[00:16:06] And then if I can't be here, I've got to get you know some heavy hitter to come in and you know give the message and just do a great job for our body

[00:16:15] And it'll be a great blessing to our body, but I think that you know nine times out of ten at our church now if I'm going to miss a Sunday or even a Wednesday

[00:16:27] I'm having one of our guys do it and it's on a rare occasion that I'll have a guest come in and it's usually only a guest that I feel like has something really really unique to say

[00:16:39] Right, you know or if it's just somebody who's in because maybe we're having a conference and he's going to be a part of it and it just makes sense to have him do Sunday because he was here on Saturday anyway Right

[00:16:53] But nine times out of ten I'm having one of you know my guys do it and Yeah, just as you say that I'm curious

[00:17:05] About the lead the amount of lead time you give you guys to prepare because I remember when I was when I was an executive pastor and my senior pastor, you know what he graciously basically gave me the option that when he was going to be gone he basically said

[00:17:22] You can either teach or you can get someone to fill it and you know if I have a particular person might I'll let you know but otherwise

[00:17:28] You get the prerogative you can either teach or you can get somebody to fill it and I appreciate it that because man, you know, it's not like my job stopped

[00:17:36] Right, you know when he was going to be out of town and so some weeks I could juggle some stuff around and I could put a message together but some weeks

[00:17:44] I just had too much on my plate. There's no way I was going to be able to preach and so having that luxury to be able to do that but And you know here at my own church I take that I brought that into

[00:17:58] The way I operate now where I recognize you know my guys on staff They got they got work to do, you know and it's not like their work just stops so as much as I would love for us in the way that I study

[00:18:13] I don't know how you are I admire these guys who have preaching calendars that they're a year out and they can tell you what they're going to be teaching

[00:18:20] And I admire guys who have you know, they've they've got their study done like two weeks in advance or three weeks in advance No idea how people do that. I don't know either

[00:18:30] You know, I prepare my messages typically Monday Tuesday for preaching the following Sunday and so for me I would love like when we're teaching you know through we just finished We will this Sunday finish the book a second Timothy. I would have loved

[00:18:47] When I had my guy step in For them to just pick up right where I left off I think it's since such a wonderful message to the congregation that you know, no this isn't this isn't the B team

[00:18:59] This is this is one of the pastors who's going to beat that's how I introduce myself to the church You know if you knew here I'm dead. I'm one of the pastors So and I would love to be able to do that but I just know that

[00:19:13] From my own experience You know, I tell the guys okay look if you want to pick it up or I left it off You're welcome to do that But chances are they're going to need more than five days to prepare the message

[00:19:31] Because they're not preaching every week right and so I since I'm not going to give them more than five day There, you know or you know theoretically they could know by Sunday afternoon So that's seven and a half days of prayer right

[00:19:46] But you know I just give them the option say you can pick up where I left off or you can do you know something outside of that So you know that's a great question. Yeah, what all do is this is usually I will give them

[00:20:02] As far as a heads up that they're going to be teaching on this particular day I'll give them a heads up of anywhere from on the shortest stand it would be two weeks but usually it's like a month Sometimes even more But When I'm having them

[00:20:25] Share in the realm of like we're in the book of Acts right now Yeah, and so I was able to say I know I'm going to be somewhere in this vicinity

[00:20:38] Right, I don't know the exact person I'm going to end on but I know it's going to be in chapter three Right, and this is what I would like you to do and if I'm If I'm wanting them to

[00:20:50] Pick up where I left off I do try to give them you know more of a lead time If if I'm if they're not going to pick up where I left off I'll tell them this what I want you to do Rather than just doing something random

[00:21:06] Is I want you these are some things I'm going to be sharing on and I want you to drill down on one of these

[00:21:13] So you know if I'm going to be talking on the subject let's say of repentance and it's going to be one of my points one of my four points. Let's say Right in the message this week and they're going to be teaching next week

[00:21:27] I'd say so why don't you plan on doing like a topical But in starting here in our our passage and acts and just drill down on repentance And all purposely

[00:21:41] You know not cover it as in detail as you know the other four points. Let's say so I kind of approach it in that type of way I have found this and I think that's a really great question brought up because

[00:21:55] I found especially with the youth guys that they had a tendency to be really really good If I just let them preach on whatever they wanted right because they had their

[00:22:08] You know certain messages that they've done at a camp or they've done here there that they just knew were home runs Right and every now and then

[00:22:17] You know I love to just have them do that like even I'll even ask them like you know hey give me three things that maybe this coming year that you

[00:22:28] You feel like would be great words for our body and sometimes I just love to take a break in the midst of maybe a book that we're in

[00:22:37] Just to say hey I want you next week or two weeks from now to do that message that you had told me about on this

[00:22:44] But most of the time I am wanting them to you know be where we're at what I found is this is a lot of them are still needing to grow

[00:22:55] Exposition you know they're great because even especially like in youth and maybe sometimes and you know even if they're teaching expositionally

[00:23:04] It might even be a little bit different or look a little bit different than how we would do it in the sense that they're just taking certain passages maybe Right maybe and so part of it and I do this maybe more on a Wednesday night where

[00:23:18] Like we're gonna do first desolony ends in second desolony ends in the new year and I've already laid out because I know we're doing a chapter a week And I've laid out who's gonna teach which What chapter and I'm telling them now

[00:23:34] But I want them to teach the whole chapter because I want them to grow in their expositional Teachings all approach it in both of those ways, but I try to give them You know I had up

[00:23:49] But I will also tell them this you know every now and then I'll say hey I just want you guys to always be ready Where you know if something comes up, you know, if I get sick or right you know

[00:24:03] I constantly say it's kind of amazing. I've only missed one Sunday and 26 years for being sick Aside from like when I had hip surgery and the end of this, but actually I was sick and

[00:24:14] Yeah, but and so I've told them you know I want you guys to always be ready that I can call on one of you guys But in that I would just say you know just teach whatever God puts on your right

[00:24:26] I think I'd so smart I would do the same thing with my guys where I challenge them all you have to have a message in your hip pocket You got to have a message that you're ready to preach

[00:24:35] And you know because you don't know when when some of my emergency's gonna come up some cracks is gonna come up

[00:24:42] So having having your guys ready is in your high school pastors are usually you know you can sit and watch by them having some sort of message because they're preaching every week So that's healthy and beneficial

[00:24:55] But and and you know the idea too of I love your your talking about what you're doing when you guys for your midweek

[00:25:02] And what you're doing in person second that's the lonings because in the new year because you you're able to say it's a different type of teaching Right, and I think that's so important because it's not just The fact that we're sharing our pulpit

[00:25:15] It's not just how we're you know the psychology that gets us to that place But I think it's also an important part of it is is intentional development of your people and you know what you're mentioning is that

[00:25:30] There are different there are different types of studies that you're doing I mean you know midweek service or a Sunday service that both you know monologue kind of services not dialogue kind of But it's important to recognize that not every service is the same

[00:25:50] And you know how you approach that and that you have to think about that when you're preparing the study because it looks different and it's delivered differently Like for us a Sunday morning is always more of a preaching moment I would call it more of a sermon

[00:26:07] You know it's going to have three or four points There's going to be sort of a theme Right, whereas our midweek you know we're committed on our Wednesday night study of going through the Bible And so we're in the New Testament working our way through

[00:26:23] And it's just it's more of a teaching We're less sermon more teaching Right, and we're we're going to cover a large section of ground We're not going to go super deep on anything It's you know I wouldn't call it an overview but it's definitely not in depth

[00:26:37] Sunday morning would be much more in depth I mean we're going teaching through the book of Acts right now and it's very very in depth But each message is a little bit more of a sermon There's a preaching aspect to it There's a recognition that there's unbelievers here

[00:26:54] You know, and so we're going to bring the gospel you know into it every single time Right, you know figuring out where Jesus fits into this you know application and all of that And so yeah, it is it's completely different and and that's part of the training

[00:27:10] Right, I was like I'm wanting them to be good at both one of the things I've found In the early aspects of training and even We don't even have to limit to early aspects but

[00:27:23] One of the things we do in our home Bible studies is we are and we're passionate about this We're demanding about this We do not want our home Bible studies to be a monologue format so many guys they get the opportunity to go there

[00:27:37] And they see it as their mini pulpit This is where I'm going to I've got the you captive and I'm going to be preaching it all of you and and we're like No, you're not that this is a dialogue

[00:27:49] But in not only insisting that they run it in a dialogue format but really training them to do that It informs the way they ultimately preach right because what happens is when when you learn to facilitate conversation Then if you're paying attention

[00:28:08] What you start seeing is that part of that conversation are questions that are coming out And and what are you and I doing when we're putting together a sermon we're anticipating what are questions going to be

[00:28:18] That as we're going through this and so to have that person go through that exercise in home Bible study It informs how they're going to approach the the homilitic

[00:28:31] Exercise of putting together a message because then they're asking the they're asking and answering the questions in a different format We're going to pause here from a minute and hear about cultivate a church planting initiative by C. G. N.

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[00:30:18] If you're ready to take the next steps and learn more about our church planting program we invite you to visit our website at cultivatechurchplanting.com The last question, what are some things that you look for in someone that you're going to give an opportunity to fill your pulpit

[00:30:36] You know all the standard things I'm looking for somebody who's spiritually mature. I'm looking for somebody who is a student of the Bible I'm looking for somebody who is a good communicator

[00:30:52] And I want to see that they are faithful and so you know these are you know I want to see that That they handle the trust with the word you know and that there have been there's been involvement in

[00:31:15] In ministry as you know themselves being a student of the word right And so that they're practicing what they preach that they're part of the community of believers that that all of that is present and then obviously

[00:31:31] There's some red flags right that set them off. I've got lots of red flags that I look for in that process. What are some red flags you look for? Well, before I answer that question I would say to you know one thing I look for is

[00:31:47] Looking for guys that I can tell really have a heart for our body And it's not just somebody who wants to talk and even though they might be gifted at it. They might really have something to say

[00:32:02] But they're just looking for a platform. I'm looking for somebody who I see yes has something to say Right, but who really has a heart and a passion for our body and it's seen in the way that they engage

[00:32:15] You know with our body and are connected you know connected themselves to you know our body And I love for them to you know go into it with this mentality of

[00:32:28] You know it's not okay, I man Rob asked me to preach and so I've got to come up with something But no Rob asked me to preach and I've got something to say, you know, and so I'm looking for

[00:32:40] Guys that if I'm having coffee with them or if I'm having Lunch with them or if it's in a staff meeting or if I'm having meeting and I'm listening

[00:32:48] I'm going this guy has something to say right you know he's got something worthwhile to say and our body needs to hear him So there's a things that that I look for in guys that I'm considering you know have fill our pulpit

[00:33:02] Some of the things I think are red flags obviously is pride. You know you Look for You know guys that just maybe are a little bit You know, think too highly of themselves Right

[00:33:22] I hear themselves talk yeah, I've had guys literally tell me that they thought they were great preachers And and I kind of cringe I remember it's kind of a funny story but I was probably 23 years old the first time Brian

[00:33:41] Broderson when I served with him at Calre vista as a youth guy he let me preach on a Sunday morning And I remember this so vividly that we were standing outside of the church It was our old church it was a smaller church

[00:33:56] Then we're at now but there's a little walkway that you walked up everybody came in the same entrance And we're standing out there after the following Sunday Brian was gone I had preached and this lady walked up to him and just said

[00:34:09] Rob did so great you know last week and it was so amazing and Brian you can go away any time You know kind of thing and And he did not let me preach again for a year

[00:34:22] But I think what it was is he saw something in me in my reaction To what she was saying that it was I really do that it because I think I was kind of eating it up like wow you know

[00:34:34] And I think he saw that it was like Rob's not ready Yeah, you know and So I I Really a red flag for me is is pride. Yeah, that's a big one, you know when I see somebody that just

[00:34:49] You know things are a little bit better, you know, then they are also I think the person who This is a big red flag for me is somebody that I think comes across very very idealistic

[00:35:02] Where you know it just everything kind of just flows to you know they look at ministry They look at life and and they have just such an idealistic and not a realistic Point of view so what there's what they're going to say is going to come across

[00:35:21] You know in a way of almost like well I've got it all together And how many times that we seen you know young guys who maybe don't even have a kid or they barely have a kid

[00:35:32] Well they can tell you how to parents or they can tell you how to parent right exactly or they haven't been married More than a nickel and they think that they they want to teach the lesson on on marriage and

[00:35:45] And stuff so you know guys that just to me come across two idealistic and view point of things Our red flags for me and even sometimes I would say

[00:35:58] You know sometimes I'll catch guys that have come out of Bible college and they've got all this knowledge wealth of knowledge You know and and they just are so eager to want to share

[00:36:13] But it can come across to to lofty you know and I think one of the things that I always appreciated about pastor Chuck was he was a man who was so brilliant And who could really talk for hours about anything right he purposely in his preaching

[00:36:31] Stamed at the common man, you know and I think Jesus did that to me. Absolutely Well that's the highest compliment you could get is that somebody can come up up to you and say you helped me to understand the Bible

[00:36:44] You help me to understand the scripture like if somebody says that to me, I'm like hey, that's brilliant

[00:36:49] You know, let me just say this real good. Yeah, so if money I had a lady she was an educator in our church and and she she came up to me one Sunday and she said yeah pastor Rob, she was I just want to thank you

[00:37:02] She says you have such a great way of making complicated things sound simple I responded I said you know what I just have to dummy it down to where I understand that's what I'm basically sharing is like, you know, this is the way I understand

[00:37:22] Tell me like I'm five you tell me like I wear a mask alone in the car and I grab You know, you mentioned the compliment as people coming to oh man, you did great you know

[00:37:34] Somebody once said this to me, I think I agree with it that you know your the assistant pastor the you know the staff pastor they ought to do great Because they get weeks to prepare sometimes months to prepare

[00:37:50] If we had weeks and months to prepare right I mean you get it you get a chance to really hone and work

[00:37:56] And so you know, so yeah, I think that's good and that goes back to your question about you know why why don't why are guys reticent sometimes to do this I think another one is insecurities You know the guys afraid of being shown up for me

[00:38:11] Hey, you know if if one of my guys gets up and preach is a message that that is that is brilliant that's amazing that's better than me You know praise God, you know what praise God and and part of that goes to the fact that

[00:38:27] You and I we both have a heart for church planting and you know and so for me I've resigned myself to the fact that You know a good number of my guys are destined to be their pastors in their own right

[00:38:42] They're going to be pastoring their own churches some of them sooner than others, you know, and I and I need to I need to embrace that And not put them down, not not you know push them down

[00:38:52] But I but I really need to prepare them for that so the more pulpit time I can give these guys to prepare for that You know the better it's going to be and you can't be too generous with God because

[00:39:05] You know hey some of these guys I cry about the day that you know they'll be launching out on their own because I can't imagine you know who could

[00:39:13] Who could I have is better than them in the position that they're in but God's already you know showed me that that you know he's You know it's kind of like that old comedians line that you know disciplining his kids he's like I brought you into this world

[00:39:28] I'll take you out now make another one that looks just like it doesn't matter to me, you know And and I think you know God puts these guys in position he'll move them to their own ministry and you know and he'll provide behind them

[00:39:42] He's able to do all that so I think that that's that's good and you know to speak in about red flags I just got it yeah, we all can spot those guys in my all the way who basically are like you know one of you

[00:39:55] And I had a guy once tell me you know that hey I love to preach and you know why don't you let me

[00:40:00] Co pastor with you why don't you let me coat and I could just see right through him. He just loved the spotlight and wanted it and Somebody who loves the spotlight. That's a really bad. Yeah, it's a bad motivation to preach the word of God, you know

[00:40:15] You know it's interesting to what you said about When they do a great job how you rejoice in that and I would just take that one step further and I really try to

[00:40:25] To do this every time is that I make a point the the following week or whenever you know I get back in the pulpit to say You know didn't so and so do it right excellent job. I listened

[00:40:39] You know to his message this week and and man it was outstanding you know, I thought just such a you know a great job And I think that what that does is you know it communicates a couple of things one it communicates

[00:40:56] You know to the body how much how you're excited to be how much you're excited about to be working with and be a part of a team

[00:41:05] You know with these other guys, but at the same time it also communicates it's not about me. You know, and that was one of the things that

[00:41:12] You know, I really really you know just kind of grabbed a hold of you know about 10 years ago that I just want this to be so incredibly clear

[00:41:22] Right, you know that this is not about me because people tend to put the pastor on the pedestal right. You know and so I just see the wonderful value in doing this For the body, you know the body gets blessed By you know hearing different voices

[00:41:43] I think the body is encouraged You know, I have I actually have one of my guys that's teaching for me this coming Sunday because I'm going to be out of town and and he's teaching on a topic that I've taught on you know several times before

[00:42:04] And and I said I'm so excited for the body, you know to hear some similar things but hear it from somebody else And a different perspective and yeah and sometimes, you know what I'll do is as I'm looking through maybe whatever book or studying

[00:42:22] And I'll see a passage and I and I literally have been thinking this way, you know, I think this guy would actually do a better job than me

[00:42:33] At, you know, teaching this particular section of scripture so I'm just going to have him do it because I know this is something he's passionate about

[00:42:44] I know it's something that he's researched a lot about I've heard him, you know, I've heard him talk about this, you know before and just conversation and it's like he's got a lot to say

[00:42:55] Yeah, that's right why not, you know so I don't know this is something I was going to just mention too that You know, so I have guys teach for me When I'm gone

[00:43:10] For sure, guys in my body and my team or or sometimes it might be one of our elders who is not on staff and I think that is really really beneficial to you know that the body gets to see who the elders are you know and so I'll have some of those guys teach sometimes

[00:43:28] But I'll often not often I will sometimes have guys teach even when I'm there. Yeah, I think that's healthy. Yeah, it is healthy, you know, to do that we're doing it. And make a point to sit in the front row and let your congregation see you taking notes.

[00:43:46] Yeah, I think that's so good. Yeah, and you know we're doing a series we usually do this on Christmas, you know, we're doing Christmas series and we're doing a three-parter and you know I'm doing two of the weeks because one of them's on Christmas day

[00:44:02] And so I I bit the bullet said I'll be the guy that preaches on Christmas day because the other guys, you know they have younger kids and um but at a sort of three week and one guy is going to do one of the weeks

[00:44:16] But I will be there that week and to hear him. We're doing the exact same thing we did it we did a three and I think this informs something else that is helpful

[00:44:26] We will I will sit down with my pastors and we will strategically put together series together. I'll allow them to be part of the the you know the processing and the thinking through of what is this series going to be how are we going to present it.

[00:44:46] And that's you know part of me developing them and it's part of us collectively together as the shepherds of the flock. You know bringing different perspectives we've we've all got our fingers in the pulse of ministry right so we come together.

[00:45:02] We're doing that for Christmas we got three parts so Christmas new years and then the week after new years when it sounds like you're doing the same thing.

[00:45:09] So we're doing a special three parts series me and and two other of my pastors we approached it together just had a meeting yesterday to kind of confirm what we're talking about.

[00:45:18] Or each of us is taking a different part and it's and you know it's moving into the new year right you at Christmas you've got new years in the week after so. So it's a it's a many exagetical study but it's a it's topical exagetical study right.

[00:45:34] And then you know doing that another occasion throughout the year too to where you'll say and you had mentioned this earlier I can't remember if it was in in this podcast but you had mentioned about.

[00:45:46] You know taking like a commercial break calling an audible right in the middle of it you're in the middle of a series and you know maybe we're teaching through you know the book of Genesis and it's been it's been four months and we're still in Jen and it's like.

[00:46:00] We're going to call an audible and we're going to do we're going to do a four week series here in the middle of this right.

[00:46:07] And so I'll do that with my guys and and we'll put it all together so it's like every week one of us is teaching something. And you know I heard Larry Osborn once say this. That when we're developing.

[00:46:21] He calls them Eagles right we're developing people that have great potential. Right. Then we need to give them those those are opportunities which are like maybe even you know we're.

[00:46:37] Let's give them the Easter service let's give them a Christmas or whatever it is so we approach we come into doing an advent series this year each guys doing. Yeah different week.

[00:46:48] We do a holy week series leading up to Easter you know which includes a good Friday service. Yeah one of my guys is teaching that good Friday service you know the same thing yeah.

[00:46:58] One year a while back this was so fun we decided that within our youth ministries. That they were going to teach the exact same thing that I was teaching in in the sanctuary and in life of me I can't remember what book it was.

[00:47:16] But every single week we would get together the three of us and we invited our our worship pastor at the time because he's also really really great teacher to be a part of that so the four of us would go out.

[00:47:30] And we would just talk about the passage you know and there were a couple of times where I was like just listening to what got it put on you know they're hard and I thought you know what you should just. Just. I really good.

[00:47:42] And because I just felt like you know God really gave him something that I think not just the kids need to hear but you know why you just bring the kids in and and you know just teach that to the whole you know congregation and I just think it's so good and it's interesting.

[00:47:56] You bring up Larry Osborne because I know you know at that church it's right in my backyard.

[00:48:02] They've always had a two to three guys that would rotate in their teaching schedule for as long as I can remember and what was interesting is I looked at that and that was so foreign because that's not what we do in our Calvary you know chapel movement.

[00:48:22] But I came to discover that is what like most of the church world does do right and and it just got me to think a little bit more about you know that's really it really got me thinking a little bit about this whole idea of.

[00:48:40] You know team teaching letting you know which is a whole another subject but but you know the idea of being a little bit more.

[00:48:49] Open and even encouraging you know yeah I've we've got some great guys here who have things to say let's give them an opportunity right give them a platform it's beneficial you know to them it's beneficial to the church right and one of the ways that it's beneficial to the church is that.

[00:49:09] You know for both you and I hold the title of senior pastor and and you know that we've done episodes on this the burden of cultivating vision.

[00:49:21] Yeah and in order to be you know so many so many guys get so busy working in the church that they don't have time to work on the church. And for us being able to have the margin to work on the church.

[00:49:35] Well if we have a if we have a robust teaching schedule and people that we can rotate in that gives us sometimes you know you just need you just need a week. To work on the church.

[00:49:50] And so it is so being able to have guys that you can depend on it allows you to step back and maybe focus on you know some of the other areas not just in a reactionary way which.

[00:50:01] And let's be honest if we're preaching every Sunday then that kind of tends to be the default we're reacting to everything right horrible way to lead you know so so much better if we can if we can be a little bit proactive about it and and that's a that's a wonderful way to do it and I think that.

[00:50:19] You know being able to do that puts you in a place where you know you're sitting right up front or you know we've had some events where you know I put my guys and charge the whole thing. I make a point of coming.

[00:50:32] Yeah but I have nothing to do with all of the elements that are going on and I find it not only is it at a fine for me because it's isn't as so nice just to be able to come and be fed sometimes you know.

[00:50:43] What's funny that you say that we had a big concert this summer and Dominic Valley came in into the concert and I purposely did that I said look.

[00:50:53] You are in charge of this of that and I'm not going to do I'm going to be there right I'm not doing anything you know this is your baby you know I want you to.

[00:51:03] You know you know lead it do like you know what you don't do and I remember him you know right before saying you know don't you don't you don't you want to like do something.

[00:51:13] You want to like phrase you want to open I always said no I just want to be here right.

[00:51:17] You know and it was funny because there were some people who had driven down from Orange County and they wanted to hear Dominic Valley and they were sitting next to a couple in our church.

[00:51:29] And they met them and then they were asking so this guy that's teaching that's not the pastor who's the pastor and they pointed at me that's the pastor and they said and like he's not doing anything.

[00:51:43] You know like they were they were actually blessed by it because they were saying that is like so not what we're used to seeing.

[00:51:49] Right you know where I guess in their experience the pastor always had to be the guy that was up front and always doing you know. And they just thought that is so cool that he's just here. Yeah and so I love I love that too.

[00:52:01] And it gives you that opportunity that sometimes you don't have because you know when you're teaching you've got other things going on somebody wants to come up and you know you've got some divine appointment with somebody.

[00:52:10] And you never really end up having to cut them off or whatever it is.

[00:52:14] I don't know it's just nice to be in a place that's had to find for you personally to let you know to let your guys let you know and it's had a fine for the body for them.

[00:52:22] You know just to be able to run the event and you know and it is I don't know it might freak somebody some people out if you get your staff to a place to where it's like.

[00:52:33] I could I could get hit by a bus that church should be fine and maybe you know that's freak freak out like gosh I want to be needed but.

[00:52:41] You know the truth is yeah none of us is really needed what yeah that's so true it's not about us right it's not about us and it's not even our church it's.

[00:52:51] It's just a church and and I can honestly say that you know early on when I first started doing this because it was so foreign to you know our church.

[00:53:01] You know our church it wasn't what they were used to you know our church had to men who primarily did all the teaching. You know between myself and Brian over the course of twenty three years.

[00:53:18] And so at first there were people who were like you know how can you not teach in today or you know gosh it's been a couple of weeks and we miss you or whatever you know type of.

[00:53:30] You know type of thing and and when they would ask me that you know how come you're not teaching today especially when I was there I would just say you know what.

[00:53:39] There are more voices here in our body that our body needs to hear from than just me and I'm excited to hear you know about what God's put on Aaron's heart today or what God's put on you know.

[00:53:54] Jamie's harder what God's put on Tyler's harder you know whoever is going to be filling the pulpit and all even sometimes. Preface it you know that week ahead of time by saying hey you know next week is going to be awesome.

[00:54:08] So when so's teaching and God's really put something on their heart you know for our our body and our body has caught that now where I rarely ever get asked that question.

[00:54:20] Yeah any more of how come you're not teaching or you know gosh it's been a few weeks. It's like it's become a part of our culture and a part of our DNA. Is it the same way here?

[00:54:31] It is and such an enjoyable fact to see the body get it like you mentioned you know that they that they start looking forward to it that you start getting the feedback from people about how the Lord has spoken to them through those things obviously.

[00:54:46] You know I were both a fan of this right we're a fan of having our guys teach we're fan of developing them and and see the overall benefit to the to the body and to the individual the to growth and the development of the of the pastors which is so important.

[00:55:07] And final thoughts, Rob. You know as I think about this I would just say you know I would I want to encourage guys to you know, prayfully consider this.

[00:55:22] To be looking for whether it's you know guys on their staff if they have guys who aren't staff or guys who are maybe in their leadership.

[00:55:31] You should like have something to say and and take that step of faith you know to be willing to do that and fight through the insecurity of you know thinking oh they're going to like them better than me or or you know that that type of thing I mean you know I actually co pastor for a series or it's definitely co taught but.

[00:56:00] For about four years with a guy named Jason Duff who I can honestly say there were a lot of people are shirts that did like him better than me and sometimes I like to better than me.

[00:56:10] Yeah, yeah, he's a phenomenal phenomenal teacher and he's being been a guest on our show. Very very gifted and but the thing when you realize it's like hey this is God's church right you know and it's not.

[00:56:26] You can rest in that right and it's it's very very free. It isn't so satisfying to when you see these guys that have been on staff with us and now now they're pastoring their own churches and and they're training you know their own guys and.

[00:56:43] I don't know there's just an immense fulfillment in that because that's really what I saw about right for 2000 years and so yeah. Yeah, and I know when I see.

[00:56:54] Especially when you have younger guys that are mature and their hearts are in the right place that they so appreciate that sense of trust and they get it like you are entrusting me with a really important.

[00:57:09] Big deal and you know it's an honor and they and when they treat it like that oh man it is just so.

[00:57:18] Beautiful and I think just really connects your heart with them and communicates you know the value and it communicates the sense of hey we're in this together.

[00:57:29] This is not my thing and you work for me, this is our thing and we're in this together and you know you have a voice you know you have you can say something better than I can.

[00:57:44] And this is going to be really, really good for the overall health of our church. It's wonderful. Amen amen and on. Good. Good talking about this subject. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:57:56] And so we wrap up this subject today and we just want to say once again that we really appreciate you tuning in and we would love for you to like and subscribe and reach out to us on Instagram.

[00:58:11] So your thoughts and if you have any questions or if there's a topic that you would like to hear us address on this podcast, you can reach out to us at leadership collective podcast at gmail.com again that's leadership collective podcast at gmail.com and we look forward to bringing you some more episodes.

[00:58:34] And on see you guys. Thank you for listening. Our goal with this podcast is to help you lead well through all seasons and challenges of ministry like so we'll see you next time on the leadership collective.