510. The Daily Grind. What Advice Do You Have

[00:00:04] Welcome to today's broadcast of Lead2Serve, a leadership podcast with Ed Taylor.

[00:00:10] Welcome again to another episode here in season five of the Lead2Serve podcast.

[00:00:16] My name is Ed Taylor. I'm the pastor of Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:00:20] I'm your host. Lead2Serve, the podcast started in my heart.

[00:00:24] Like, I wanted to invite people into a conversation about ministry.

[00:00:28] I have a passion about developing servants and leaders, pouring into pastors,

[00:00:33] and elders, and just anybody really.

[00:00:35] Discipleship is a privilege that God has given to me that I really like doing in a variety of different ways.

[00:00:42] Leadership development in particular.

[00:00:44] So thank you guys for tuning in, for sharing the podcast, for your feedback, for your ideas.

[00:00:51] Actually today is an episode where we're using an idea that was sent into us in particular.

[00:00:59] And we're going to read through some of the questions that this brother gave to us so we can talk through them.

[00:01:04] You know our goal, our goal is to help you grow in your servant leadership,

[00:01:08] so that you will glorify God in everything that you do.

[00:01:11] And you know the tag it says, the better servant you are, the better leader you'll become.

[00:01:16] And the better leader you'll become will broaden and deepen your ability to serve the Lord and others.

[00:01:23] You know so much better, right?

[00:01:24] You love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind.

[00:01:27] And you love your neighbor as yourself.

[00:01:30] So we design these times like as if you were, well we literally are sitting across the table with two microphones in front of us.

[00:01:37] Talking like you would if you were in my office or at our staff meeting or at a pastor's meeting.

[00:01:43] Talking ministry, drawing from the word of God, giving practical principles.

[00:01:49] And that's where we are today. For season five, one of the big pieces of feedback we had is to have someone in studio with me.

[00:01:56] So the whole season up into this episode, we have Pastor Bob Claycamp with us.

[00:02:01] Welcome again, Bob.

[00:02:02] Great. It's privilege to be here.

[00:02:04] Appreciate you being here every week to have these topics discussed and prayerfully considered.

[00:02:10] And let's just jump right into today's episode to spend some time on it.

[00:02:15] I got a text from a friend of mine not too long ago just wanting, hey, I got an idea for your podcast and I go, send it my way.

[00:02:23] And so let me read what he said in an edited form.

[00:02:27] He said the common question is what would you tell your younger self?

[00:02:32] Which is, you know, I'm a little bit older now, so I would tell my younger self a few things.

[00:02:37] It seems it's often intended to help the younger pastor who's just starting out or early in his ministry.

[00:02:43] And I can see that perspective for sure.

[00:02:45] How about the same question asked to a pastor who's been doing it for 30 or 40 years with the pastor who's near about that 20 year mark?

[00:02:55] The one who's slowing down and grinding a bit without all the standard answers of endurance and perseverance, although we will give those answers.

[00:03:06] How do you keep leading with passion, vision and keep being an example in spirit, keeping the flame burning bright since it's been burning so long?

[00:03:16] Not using delegation to hide the fact that you that the leader may just not feel like doing things anymore.

[00:03:23] I'm like, wow, there's quite a bit in this question, Bob talking to your younger self, but the perspective is a little different.

[00:03:34] Not trying to help a young guy get ready for what's up ahead, but for a guy like this, like my friend describes here that's slowing down, grinding a bit without any clarification, right?

[00:03:48] Because I didn't clarify what grinding means and not using delegation to hide the fact that he doesn't want to.

[00:03:54] He may not feel like doing things anymore.

[00:03:56] So you got a guy.

[00:03:58] Here you are.

[00:03:59] You and I have been doing it for a few years.

[00:04:01] You've definitely been doing it for 30 to 40 years.

[00:04:03] I haven't.

[00:04:04] So my perspective would be 25 years.

[00:04:06] But what do you tell a guy?

[00:04:11] What do you tell your younger self?

[00:04:13] What do you tell the younger pastor that's 20 years into it that is slowing down and grinding a bit?

[00:04:20] Well, first of all, I would affirm the fact that as we get older, we don't have the necessary energy or strength that we had when we were in our 30s or so.

[00:04:34] And that's how does the Lord see that?

[00:04:36] Does He understand our frame?

[00:04:38] The Bible says He does understand our frame.

[00:04:40] He knows our frame.

[00:04:42] He knows we're just dust.

[00:04:45] And going over the initial call and asking questions, what was it that was so exciting about when you first started?

[00:04:59] What were the expectations?

[00:05:01] What were the dreams?

[00:05:02] What were the things that just seemed to stir you and your wife in the midst of it?

[00:05:08] And so now here you are 20, 25 years later.

[00:05:13] And you look back and when did you notice things felt like they were slowing down?

[00:05:22] And so just questions because I'm walking into a story that I don't know.

[00:05:29] And because the surface story is not necessarily the real story.

[00:05:34] So through the questions, and Jesus used questions all the time as he was ministering to disciples and others.

[00:05:43] And I've learned this from you being here these four and a half years as well,

[00:05:47] because you're a good one to ask questions.

[00:05:49] Yeah, forcing answers.

[00:05:53] But then just to say where did things change?

[00:05:58] And many times because of the pain, because of the hurt,

[00:06:05] because of the shock or disappointment, all of a sudden a new layer of guardedness came in.

[00:06:16] And thinking like, I'm not sure how long I can keep doing this.

[00:06:22] And those kind of thoughts start rolling around.

[00:06:24] And if you don't deal with them right there, you just leave them alone, they take root.

[00:06:29] And then they lead to bigger things.

[00:06:33] And so although in our family of churches, taking time off is not something that's really encouraged

[00:06:44] because we had such a strong leader in Pastor Chuck who had such a work ethic and such an intense focus.

[00:06:54] He did take a time off, but it was a lot of it was ministry related time off,

[00:07:00] which really isn't time off. It's not quite the same thing as my wife continually reminds me.

[00:07:06] My wife also reminds me it's not the same. I mean, really is.

[00:07:10] But in thinking how Paul dealt with Timothy in his last letter,

[00:07:15] Timothy had been in Ephesus for quite some time.

[00:07:19] And Paul's the thing that stands out.

[00:07:22] He says, therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of hands of my hands.

[00:07:32] And the question is, what's that look like?

[00:07:36] What does it what does he mean stir up the gift of God, which is in you?

[00:07:43] What does that mean?

[00:07:45] Is there is there a need to take some time away to stir up the gift of God, which really when you look at Jesus first letter to the seven churches of Asia,

[00:07:58] they had all the work down, but they left their first love.

[00:08:02] And it's out of that love passion that work flows.

[00:08:09] And when that becomes secondary or like a side issues like like peas in your main entree,

[00:08:17] you know, then then you're headed for trouble.

[00:08:21] You don't like peas. I'm sorry.

[00:08:23] I know you don't like to mix your food. I've eaten. I've eaten dinner with you.

[00:08:27] I know you like it all separate on your plate.

[00:08:31] So but time away is something that's essential for the long game.

[00:08:37] Yes.

[00:08:38] And if you don't take that time away, I mean, I know the arguments and I know the mindsets.

[00:08:49] I've been there. I've lived it.

[00:08:53] And and there's could be some bell and reason I've got nobody to take my church and but you know,

[00:08:59] you've been there 20, 25 years and you still have 50 people.

[00:09:02] And so I know it's tough, but find someone that can fill in because you for the long game,

[00:09:11] you're in it for the long game.

[00:09:13] You need to get away just you and the Lord or maybe you and your wife and the Lord and just reconnect with those basics.

[00:09:22] I'm not talking so much about perseverance and endurance and all that, but I'm talking about revitalizing your relationship with the Lord because it's a living relationship like it is with any person.

[00:09:36] It's a it's a personal relationship with the Lord, not vocation or your high school counselor said you'd be good at this.

[00:09:45] No, it's a it's a relationship with the person of Jesus Christ and God the Father.

[00:09:50] And if that doesn't, if that's not kindling the flame, stir up the gift of God, which is in you by the laying out of my hands.

[00:10:02] That's the Holy Spirit coming upon you and just lighting the fire.

[00:10:07] It'll look different as you get older.

[00:10:09] I mean, you need to work smarter, not harder as you get older because your physical strength isn't going to be there.

[00:10:15] It's a great question.

[00:10:16] I've thought about it since it was sent to me, you know, if I'm 25 years into it, what would I tell a guy at the 20 year mark, you know where he's at right now?

[00:10:25] A couple of things I think number one, this what you're feeling right now is normal.

[00:10:30] This is a normal result of grinding away, faithfully enduring persevering in ministry already.

[00:10:39] So where you have arrived is not necessarily a place of weakness.

[00:10:44] It's not necessarily a place of failure.

[00:10:47] It's not necessarily any reflection upon the quality of your ministry.

[00:10:52] It's a season and these seasons come and go.

[00:10:55] If I was telling you that the same pastor day one, the very first time, the day he's excited, the days he's putting out the signs, the days that I'll put the chairs up and then I'll go do the sound board and then I'll go do the sound check and I'll teach you.

[00:11:08] I'll play the drums and whatever I'll do, it's like just pace yourself because not every Sunday is going to feel like this.

[00:11:17] Not every month is going to feel like this.

[00:11:19] Not every year is going to feel like this.

[00:11:22] So learn how to pace yourself, whether that means you take regular breaks along the way, whether that means you get to the place where you not only take regular breaks but you have specific vacation times or whatever.

[00:11:37] Rest is a big part of it. Pacing is a big part of it.

[00:11:40] But also this is normal.

[00:11:42] Feeling like you don't want to do it anymore.

[00:11:45] Totally normal.

[00:11:47] You know, I think sometimes when I'm giving advice, the response will be, well, you have a big church and you have a big staff and you have...

[00:11:54] And there's a lack of understanding that a larger church or even a team that's coming along, it just means more, not less.

[00:12:03] So if I was tired when we were 100 people, then I'm going to be really tired when I have X amount of people because now it's more, not less.

[00:12:12] So more help means more work, more discipleship, more accountability.

[00:12:16] More...

[00:12:18] That's how every pastor's dream is. More, more, more.

[00:12:21] And maybe God's will is more.

[00:12:23] But the reality is more means more.

[00:12:27] More of everything.

[00:12:28] More problems.

[00:12:29] More difficulties.

[00:12:31] More discipleship. More people quitting. More people leaving.

[00:12:35] And so when you're listening to this as a pastor or a leader, I just want you to remember this is proportionate.

[00:12:42] So as your smaller church or medium sized church compared to a large church, whatever that looks like,

[00:12:47] remember the problems we all feel the same exact problems.

[00:12:51] They're just proportionate.

[00:12:53] And some guys, you might look at him and go, well, that guy, you know, he has a different...

[00:12:56] I never hear anything. Well, he's just not sharing it.

[00:12:59] It doesn't mean he doesn't feel it. He's just not sharing it.

[00:13:02] You know, I've... I know so-and-so he's just feel like it a grind.

[00:13:05] Well, you know, he's just not telling you, but I'm sure that he feels the same way.

[00:13:10] And I appreciate this.

[00:13:12] You know, don't give the standard answers of endurance and perseverance.

[00:13:16] And maybe again, this is like, you know, when I do the live radio here and I have a live call-in show,

[00:13:21] sometimes people will text questions in and I'll say, you know what?

[00:13:24] That's a better question to talk about because I don't know where you want me to go with it,

[00:13:28] like specifically.

[00:13:29] And I think this is one of those questions where I don't know where you want me to go with it

[00:13:33] because endurance and perseverance, do you mean that you got advice once?

[00:13:38] So just put your head down. It's no big deal. We all get tired.

[00:13:41] Well, well, that's not true endurance and perseverance actually,

[00:13:45] because true biblical endurance and perseverance would be an empowering of the Lord.

[00:13:49] Like we spoke about in an earlier episode, God both works to will and to do.

[00:13:54] And that there, I think it was Warren, I know it was Warren Worsby, but I can't remember the exact title.

[00:14:00] But he talked about ministry and he used the word plotting sometimes.

[00:14:05] Praise of plotters is the book.

[00:14:06] What is it?

[00:14:07] In praise of plotters, Warren Worsby.

[00:14:10] And that is ministry sometimes and plotting needs a man. I don't want to do this.

[00:14:15] This is too hard. It's challenging and how can I get over it?

[00:14:22] Sometimes you don't get over it. You get through it.

[00:14:25] And when I spoke on my taught at a conference once on difficulties in ministry,

[00:14:30] I used this illustration of seasons because in Colorado we have four distinct seasons.

[00:14:36] They see them and they're all distinct.

[00:14:38] So you got winter and then you got spring and then you have summer and then you have fall

[00:14:43] and winter comes up again. And each one of them leads into the next.

[00:14:47] And what is described here from my brother right now sounds like a winter season,

[00:14:52] a challenging season, probably not completely like I'm done and I'm giving up,

[00:14:57] but it's one of those challenging seasons and winters you really do need to learn how to endure,

[00:15:02] especially when you don't like them.

[00:15:04] Like you just like, okay, is it winter?

[00:15:06] Like I was even so hopeful because we got this heavy snow recently that's like the snow

[00:15:11] you usually get at the end of the season and like, oh, maybe it's going to end early.

[00:15:15] And there he was no, no.

[00:15:17] And so you just like, okay, going to shovel some more, put gas in my snow blower and freeze

[00:15:23] and hopefully I don't slip on ice.

[00:15:26] And then I just know one day it's not going to snow anymore.

[00:15:29] Like yes. And spring time comes right after a winter time.

[00:15:33] You're, it doesn't even have to be enduring as much as it is waiting.

[00:15:37] And then you know spring's coming and you're looking for the trees, you're looking from the sprout.

[00:15:42] You're looking for a green in your grass because you know, once the first color comes,

[00:15:47] it's just going to explode. The colors are going to be colorful again.

[00:15:50] And you get to enjoy the spring time.

[00:15:52] Spring is a fun time and ministry has fun time.

[00:15:56] That's when people get saved again and baptized and churches grow in their springtime

[00:16:02] winds down. I mean, actually accelerates up into summertime,

[00:16:06] which is kind of euphemistic for the best of the best summertime is beautiful.

[00:16:10] And then summertime's wind down into the fall, everything starts to die again.

[00:16:14] The leaves fall off the tree and another winter.

[00:16:17] And so if I was telling someone that's earlier on in ministry,

[00:16:20] the number one thing is this is normal and it's going to pass.

[00:16:26] And I would say if it doesn't pass, then you really have to consider whether this is what God wants you to do.

[00:16:33] And it doesn't mean necessarily that you have to stop pastoring.

[00:16:38] But if you're a senior pastor, maybe the Lord's showing you that senior pastor,

[00:16:43] lead pastor isn't for you.

[00:16:44] Maybe you'd do better as an assistant and a support or maybe you do better.

[00:16:47] What you're doing right now traveling, encouraging other churches, providing.

[00:16:52] Maybe I've seen some of my friends go back into the business world and then they go back to their career.

[00:16:57] And that's not necessarily quitting, like because we associate everything.

[00:17:02] You got the call and you're going to do this.

[00:17:04] And if you do anything other than this, you're a quitter.

[00:17:06] No, you're following the leading of the Lord.

[00:17:09] It's a sidestep, not a back step.

[00:17:11] Not necessarily.

[00:17:12] I mean, it depends on the situation.

[00:17:15] But I mean for some people when the leaves fall off the trees,

[00:17:21] it's like disaster.

[00:17:23] My ministry is done.

[00:17:25] Well, wintertime, okay, there's no proof of life, but the roots are going deeper.

[00:17:31] Right.

[00:17:32] It's all underground.

[00:17:33] Yeah.

[00:17:34] And so you have to ask the question for somebody 20, 30 years pastoring,

[00:17:39] what season are you in?

[00:17:41] What do you see?

[00:17:44] Is it winter?

[00:17:45] Is it fall?

[00:17:46] And just those questions are so important because you're in it for the long haul.

[00:17:52] You're in it for not what you can get out of it, but what has the Lord directly called you to do?

[00:18:01] And feed my lambs, tend my sheep, feed my sheep.

[00:18:08] And so, yeah, but they're leaving.

[00:18:11] Well, feed my lambs, tend my sheep, feed my sheep because it's all about faithfulness to the one.

[00:18:20] And stop comparing yourself to the business models of the world or to your colleagues who outcome their church just got like a explodes and I've been at this for 20 years and I'm still back to, you know, 100 less than 100 people and is that just a sign I should quit?

[00:18:37] And by the way, I have heard it said at conferences that if your church is 50 or less, don't call yourself a church.

[00:18:44] You're just a home Bible study.

[00:18:46] So done.

[00:18:47] I mean, and the reverberation, the shock upon some of those with smaller churches that were there just to try to get some encouragement.

[00:19:00] It was not good.

[00:19:02] I like what you said here.

[00:19:04] If we're going to assess seasons, we lose perspective.

[00:19:09] I mean, I've been doing this for 25 years at least once a year.

[00:19:14] The ministry at this particular church that I serve gets so challenging that I don't want to do it anymore.

[00:19:21] It's a regular emotion.

[00:19:23] It's something that can be verbalized or processed in prayer or a conversation with my wife where it isn't a statement of quitting.

[00:19:34] And I have a feeling that's what this is in my friend's text.

[00:19:38] It's not a statement of quitting.

[00:19:40] It's just a statement of the present reality.

[00:19:43] And maybe it is a winter season.

[00:19:45] I just don't want to do this anymore.

[00:19:46] It's, you know, as I was reading through not using delegation to hide the fact.

[00:19:50] Well, I would never use delegation to hide anything.

[00:19:53] Delegation is a different tool.

[00:19:55] You know, delegation is not to hide something when I delegate.

[00:19:59] It's meant to multiply.

[00:20:01] It's not meant to subtract.

[00:20:03] It's meant to multiply.

[00:20:04] It's meant to share the burden.

[00:20:06] If I'm carrying a burden and I share it with you, it's 50% less.

[00:20:11] If you got half of it and I got half of it, and then we have a third person and a fourth person.

[00:20:16] The delegation in the discipleship is designed to help.

[00:20:20] But even then sometimes guys will get frustrated because they're like, I just can't find faithful men.

[00:20:26] I can't find faithful men.

[00:20:27] And that in one respect, that's true.

[00:20:30] But in another respect, we might have different expectations.

[00:20:33] You remember when Jesus, he talked about the numbers.

[00:20:38] And I want to, I want to hope I get their numbers.

[00:20:41] It was at 30, 60 and 100 fold, 30, 60 and 100.

[00:20:45] One of the, one sometimes what a leader is describing is I can't find any hundreds.

[00:20:51] There's a lot of 30s and a lot of 60s.

[00:20:53] But what I need is hundreds.

[00:20:55] And we all desire hundreds because a senior pastor or lead pastor is going to be a high hundred type of faithful man.

[00:21:04] But we have to remember that a 30, a 60 and 100 are all equal.

[00:21:11] And they're equal not in their capacity but in their faithfulness.

[00:21:17] So a 30 person that comes and produces 30 should be treated just as well as a hundred person is producing 100.

[00:21:25] And one thing I've learned over the years, and I had to learn the hard way because I understand the perspective here is sometimes you need 30,

[00:21:32] you need three 30s, three people that are 30 fold producers and faithful to match.

[00:21:38] And that doesn't even quite match the hundred.

[00:21:40] But you're not going to get a hundred but you can get three 30s or you can get a 60 and a third.

[00:21:44] Like there are a mixture of people as a pastor.

[00:21:48] And I like what pastor Skip Heitzegg taught us.

[00:21:52] He said that a pastor's role is sometimes best compared to a divine talent scout where we're looking for those to help and then putting him in the right place.

[00:22:02] Like if they're a right fielder, they shouldn't be a catcher.

[00:22:05] We should keep them in right field and put the catchers in the catchers.

[00:22:08] That way everybody can be who the God made them to be and we get to be used.

[00:22:12] And so sometimes where this frustration because again, every church is going through this.

[00:22:17] It doesn't matter what they post, what they look like on Facebook, Instagram, whatever.

[00:22:21] Every church goes through this where there is endurance, there is perseverance.

[00:22:26] But how do I lead with passion and vision?

[00:22:29] I really come back to that place where I first started.

[00:22:32] And that's what Elijah had to do when he lost his vision.

[00:22:37] You never hear of the servant again.

[00:22:44] I mean what kind of testimony is that?

[00:22:46] It's amazing.

[00:22:47] And he ends up over in Mount Sinai, you know, moaning and moaning.

[00:22:53] And what happened is the Lord gave him fresh vision, kind of dealt with him,

[00:22:58] gave him fresh vision, sent him on his way and he was effective.

[00:23:05] But he had to get that fresh vision, but he had to get away from the middle of what he was doing

[00:23:11] to catch the fresh vision.

[00:23:12] And so that's my take on, I mean even the land was told to rest after six years.

[00:23:20] They were to rest a seven years.

[00:23:21] So God understands that whole, because it's longevity that he's into.

[00:23:26] And so there are resources that you can draw upon to be able to take a break

[00:23:34] for the purpose of getting your vision renewed.

[00:23:37] You've mentioned that a couple of times and rest is not just ministry rest, but true, unplugged.

[00:23:45] That's a commitment that we've made, Marie and I, just for our marriage.

[00:23:49] I didn't even actually do it when I first started getting away just Marie and I with the church in mind at all.

[00:23:55] My marriage needed it.

[00:23:56] We wanted to celebrate an anniversary.

[00:23:59] And I am one of those guys that just applauded and plowed and didn't take a lot of time off.

[00:24:04] And I did take time off.

[00:24:05] It was ministry related.

[00:24:06] And then our anniversary came up and I'm like, we need to unplug.

[00:24:12] We need to be apart from the kids.

[00:24:14] We need to be apart from my responsibilities and it's just me and her.

[00:24:17] And it's been very beneficial and extremely fruitful over the years.

[00:24:22] We've tried to do it every year since and it's benefits the church.

[00:24:26] And I always like to come back and tell the church a happy pastor with a strong marriage is a very big benefit to the church.

[00:24:33] And you know, one of the things I lean into too, just kind of finishing up on this is there.

[00:24:40] I lean into my strengths and during these times, not my weaknesses.

[00:24:44] And so one of my strengths is leadership.

[00:24:47] So I pray for a fresh approach to leadership.

[00:24:50] I pray for a fresh word.

[00:24:52] I pray.

[00:24:53] I pray and God usually gives it to me in the beginning of the year.

[00:24:56] I don't like have a scripture verse.

[00:24:58] I've never been where I have a verse for the year, but typically God will give us a song that kind of becomes our anthem for that year or two and a direction in the word that first ministers to me.

[00:25:09] And then I share it with the church and then it gets stirred up where it starts like a catalyst.

[00:25:14] Once you start the ball rolling, it start it continues.

[00:25:17] And so that's been helpful.

[00:25:20] How do I lead with passion and vision?

[00:25:22] Sometimes I don't lead with passion and vision.

[00:25:24] I just lead or after my son passed away, I didn't lead at all.

[00:25:28] I didn't have any.

[00:25:30] I could barely show up for a couple years.

[00:25:32] I could barely show up and teach and the team around me, they carried a lot of the weight.

[00:25:38] But they're not gifted like me.

[00:25:40] So they got tired and it was hard and people left and it was challenging.

[00:25:46] And then over time and God's perfect timing, he awakened that gift again and it helped.

[00:25:52] But I'm not the leader I was before.

[00:25:54] I'm a different man.

[00:25:56] And that's not necessarily bad.

[00:25:59] I'm just learning to embrace the new person that God is.

[00:26:02] But sometimes I don't lead with passion or vision.

[00:26:04] I just lead and sometimes I don't lead with passion or vision or lead at all.

[00:26:08] I just keep taking one step forward.

[00:26:10] I just take the next step, next step and I fall back on the things that I know God blesses.

[00:26:15] So if I can't lead or I can't correct or I can't even on a smaller scale,

[00:26:19] you know, I just can't deal with that tonight.

[00:26:21] Then I won't deal with it.

[00:26:22] But I will lean into the things I know he blesses.

[00:26:24] He blesses prayer.

[00:26:26] He blesses the teaching of his word.

[00:26:28] He blesses taking care of the flock, caring for them more than myself.

[00:26:32] And even if I don't see immediate benefits, it gets me through these seasons where right now

[00:26:37] I'm not in one of those seasons and I'm grateful for it.

[00:26:39] But it hasn't been too long where I'm just, I don't know if I want to do this anymore.

[00:26:43] And it's not a statement of quitting.

[00:26:46] I'm not interested in quitting.

[00:26:48] But I think I have to really answer that question.

[00:26:50] Well, what Ed, what are you dealing with?

[00:26:52] What is it?

[00:26:53] Like, are you just exhausted?

[00:26:55] Are you, you know, like whatever it may be, there's a variety of different things.

[00:26:59] But I hope this helps just talking it out and sometimes talking it out like this just helps.

[00:27:06] Like you're just like, oh, okay, okay, I'm not, you know, I'm not strange.

[00:27:10] You know, we're all feeling it.

[00:27:12] Yeah.

[00:27:13] And there's a lot of peer pressure.

[00:27:15] There's a lot of peer pressure over the years.

[00:27:20] I've felt it.

[00:27:21] I have yielded to it.

[00:27:24] I have, and that all that does is bring, it kicks the can down the road and creates interest.

[00:27:30] It comes back with interest.

[00:27:32] And I think moving out of the country to England was super healthy for me,

[00:27:38] giving me a much broader perspective of the body of Christ bigger than me.

[00:27:43] Yeah.

[00:27:44] Appreciate you guys giving us your requests.

[00:27:46] I hope it helps.

[00:27:48] It's a great question and it's worthy of a lot more time,

[00:27:51] but we've come to the end of the episode today.

[00:27:54] I know one more thing that I've been doing this year that I've never done before,

[00:28:00] and I shared this with the church last night that I, I've been,

[00:28:05] last year I was teaching and I felt I kept hearing the Ephesians post a note from Jesus.

[00:28:12] You know, remember from where you have fallen, repent and repeat.

[00:28:15] I kept sharing that with the church, sharing with the church.

[00:28:17] And you share that and you're like looking in the mirror like is that for you, Ed?

[00:28:21] And I sense like the Holy Spirit was saying that is for you,

[00:28:24] but not like I, not because I'm in sin or anything,

[00:28:28] but I needed refreshment and I didn't know it.

[00:28:32] I didn't know I needed refreshment.

[00:28:34] So I took that scripture and applied it very literally.

[00:28:37] I, and I went back to where when I was a new believer and I had a friend of mine

[00:28:43] and he and I together, we compiled a playlist of the music that for me as a new believer,

[00:28:49] taking me back to the nineties, the music that I listened to that my kids heard on the radio

[00:28:54] that really was formative in my life.

[00:28:57] And what out what the other thing was formative back then as I listened to the radio a lot.

[00:29:02] So I picked the five pastors that I listened to the most, which most of them I still do,

[00:29:07] but that's all I've been listening to.

[00:29:09] And I've committed myself to listen to those studies all year here, all year.

[00:29:14] So it's Pastor Jeff Johnson, Pastor Raul Rees, Pastor Skip Heidzig, Pastor Chuck Smith

[00:29:19] and Pastor Ray Bentley because I had these long commutes in California for many, many years.

[00:29:24] And radio was my discipleship.

[00:29:27] And so I've taken that and applied it in my life.

[00:29:30] Kind of what my brother here is talking about where I want to stir up passion.

[00:29:34] Some old songs have popped up that really speak to my heart like I haven't heard them in forever

[00:29:39] because you don't hear them.

[00:29:40] We're not singing them.

[00:29:41] They're not on the radio.

[00:29:43] And we've kind of moved on to more contemporary music, which is great.

[00:29:47] But these songs formed me.

[00:29:49] So I'm not thinking we need to sing them.

[00:29:51] I need to sing them.

[00:29:52] Like I don't think our church needs to sing them.

[00:29:54] I need to sing them.

[00:29:55] And so I'm like, whoa.

[00:29:56] And I'm listening to this song that was written at my home church and I'm starting to cry

[00:30:00] because I remember like those days, like those days.

[00:30:06] I always tell Maria, I said, man, those were simpler days.

[00:30:09] And she goes, no, they weren't like she just toy.

[00:30:11] No, they weren't.

[00:30:12] They were just hard in a different way.

[00:30:13] I'm like, I know honey, but in ministry, they were simpler days.

[00:30:17] Those were the days I longed for what I am tired of today.

[00:30:21] Sure.

[00:30:22] And I'm like, what is Lord?

[00:30:24] You know, I want to get back to longing for more minister.

[00:30:28] I want to get back.

[00:30:29] I didn't know church was so hard.

[00:30:31] I didn't know ministry was so hard.

[00:30:32] I wanted it so badly now that I got it.

[00:30:35] I don't want it so badly anymore.

[00:30:37] But man, what God's stirring up is no, I do want it.

[00:30:40] But it's not, it's not a church and it's not size and it's not planning a church

[00:30:45] or having a name for myself or being a Calvary.

[00:30:47] None of the things that I thought I wanted do I want.

[00:30:51] I just want to please the Lord.

[00:30:52] I want to serve this precious group of people that he's entrusted to me.

[00:30:56] I want to do well.

[00:30:57] I want to serve the staff and the team and the lay leaders.

[00:31:00] And I can only do what I can do.

[00:31:02] Right.

[00:31:03] But going back like that, what he told that like, I didn't know.

[00:31:07] I don't really think I left my first love, but I sure did leave a lot of elements of my first love that God's adding back.

[00:31:15] And I'm like, yeah, there was a day when I was desperate for the things of the Lord.

[00:31:20] And now I'm tired and things of the Lord and it's normal.

[00:31:24] But I want the desperate back.

[00:31:26] Yeah.

[00:31:27] And that's part of getting back to basics in your life, keeping it simple but going deeper.

[00:31:33] And if it's simple doesn't mean you're weak or immature.

[00:31:38] I think it better word is to become more uncomplicated.

[00:31:43] I agree.

[00:31:44] Well, thanks again for joining us this episode.

[00:31:46] Maybe you have some ideas on these topics.

[00:31:48] Send them our way.

[00:31:49] Maybe you have a topic we'd like us to talk about or anything that that will you think would make this more helpful and more fruitful.

[00:31:56] We'd love to hear from you.

[00:31:57] This is the lead to serve broadcast.

[00:31:59] It's recorded live from the studios here at Grace FM at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:32:05] In studio for this season has been Pastor Bob Claycamp.

[00:32:08] My name is Ed Taylor.

[00:32:10] Love to hear from you.

[00:32:11] Text me 720-608-0012 or email me at edtaylor.org.

[00:32:19] You can get Bob at bobclaycamp, bob at bobclaycamp.com.

[00:32:24] Again, I know we're speaking fast.

[00:32:26] You can always rewind it, but just connect with us.

[00:32:28] We'll connect back with you.

[00:32:30] We would love to serve you, encourage you.

[00:32:32] And let me just say talking about these things together has been encouraging for us.

[00:32:37] Been ministering to us.

[00:32:39] It's been helpful to us.

[00:32:40] And our church here will benefit from these discussions because God will make us better men and better leaders as we talk these things out.

[00:32:48] So thank you guys very much for your collaborative effort in being a part of the lead to serve Calvary Church family.

[00:32:55] God bless you guys until next time.

[00:32:57] Thank you for joining us for this episode of lead to serve with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:33:05] If you have a leadership question you want to hear answered on a future lead to serve podcast, please email it to pastor ed at calvaryco.ch.

[00:33:13] And if you like our podcast, please subscribe, rate or review us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social media.

[00:33:20] Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right here on the lead to serve podcast.