On today's episode, Pastor Ed and Bob talk about the recent death of Pastor Jeff Johnson, Calvary Chapel of Downey and how important the role pastors play in our lives. God chooses the pastor that you need, and it's important you submit to that choice. Church hopping and undermining good godly leadership is neither biblical nor helpful.
[00:00:00] Calvary Church presents Lead2Serve, a leadership podcast with Ed Taylor.
[00:00:12] Welcome again to another episode of the Lead2Serve podcast.
[00:00:16] My name is Ed Taylor.
[00:00:17] I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.
[00:00:21] I've been married for 35 years this year.
[00:00:28] 35 years this year, I have three kids.
[00:00:32] They're all grown.
[00:00:33] My oldest son Eddie went home to be with the Lord 10 years ago, almost 11 years ago now.
[00:00:40] And I also have another son Josh, serves here at the church, one of our administrative pastors
[00:00:46] and he has excelled in ministry in ways that I could never excel.
[00:00:52] Proud of him while God's doing in his life, and my daughter, she also is an expert with
[00:00:57] communications and social media and so many different things and grateful to be alive.
[00:01:05] Really it's the grace of God to be alive and to have a life that is live for the Lord.
[00:01:16] And today I want to spring a brand new topic.
[00:01:21] It's not on our notes.
[00:01:23] It's just going to, we're going to talk as if I pull brother in my office and we're going
[00:01:27] to talk about this.
[00:01:29] It's kind of like how the podcast is to begin with except that I didn't tell Bob I was
[00:01:35] going to do this.
[00:01:36] I'm just going to do it.
[00:01:37] So first of all, I want to welcome Bob into our studio today.
[00:01:40] Welcome again for another episode.
[00:01:42] Yeah.
[00:01:43] It should be interesting.
[00:01:44] Are you ready for the surprise?
[00:01:45] Yeah, let's do it.
[00:01:46] Yeah, I don't think it's going to be as big a surprise as you want but I do think I do
[00:01:49] need to talk about it.
[00:01:50] I do want to talk about it.
[00:01:52] So before we get to it, I want to remind you that the lead to serve podcast is designed
[00:01:57] to help you grow in your servant leadership.
[00:02:01] Of course we're coming to you from the perspective of pastors at who we are.
[00:02:04] That's how we spend and invest our lives in pastoral ministry.
[00:02:09] But don't let that throw you.
[00:02:11] We're not merely pastors.
[00:02:12] It's like that's not the only.
[00:02:14] We have all kinds of roles in society and before we were ever a pastor, we were believers.
[00:02:21] So you can think of it just as a brother's, couple brothers talking to you about life
[00:02:26] and ministry and how to serve well because I know that's why you are attracted to this
[00:02:30] podcast.
[00:02:31] You want to serve well.
[00:02:32] So if you're a pastor, going to be helpful as a pastor, a dad, mom, single, as a boss,
[00:02:38] as an employee across the board, pastor Bob Claycamp.
[00:02:42] He has 50 plus years of pastoral ministry experience.
[00:02:46] I'm in the 30 year range of pastoral ministry experience.
[00:02:50] So combined 80 years, but that's not where the power is.
[00:02:53] The power is not in our experience.
[00:02:55] The power is in the word of God and being yielded to the Holy Spirit in these conversations.
[00:02:59] And that what they are, they're not scripted.
[00:03:02] Although we do have some, we do have some thoughts of how to, you know, what direction we're
[00:03:09] going for sure.
[00:03:10] It's seeing a theme develop.
[00:03:11] The theme for this season developing is growing into deeper effectiveness, skills to be
[00:03:17] more usable.
[00:03:18] Like you're just asking the question, how can I be more usable?
[00:03:21] Or I feel stuck in a rut.
[00:03:24] How can I move forward?
[00:03:25] That seems to be what this season is.
[00:03:27] So welcome aboard.
[00:03:28] Remember, give us your feedback.
[00:03:30] Put a good review on Spotify or Apple podcasts or Google podcasts.
[00:03:34] However, you get it because that helps the algorithm.
[00:03:37] Any feedback, any input, any appreciation, any topics that you want us to cover, text
[00:03:43] to me 720608 0012.
[00:03:48] That'll ping my phone 720608 0012 or email me ed ed Taylor dot org.
[00:03:57] That's Ed T. A Y of a war dot org.
[00:04:00] Bob also has an email and a website bobclaycamp.com or you can email them at bob at bobclaycamp.com
[00:04:08] but anything that comes into me that references Bob, I'll make sure to get to them as well.
[00:04:15] So here's the topic my pastor died, Jeff Johnson.
[00:04:19] And I don't know what we're going to end up titanling this, but it's recent.
[00:04:23] It's fresh on my mind.
[00:04:25] And I want to talk about a few things related to losing your pastor or watching your pastor
[00:04:30] die or seeing him suffer or what the future holds.
[00:04:35] The first one is, is how much God has put pastors in our lives more than we get to pick
[00:04:44] our pastor.
[00:04:46] I think there's a sense in our culture, this emphasis on independence, this emphasis on
[00:04:51] my choice and my that I can go to this church and I don't like this church and I can't
[00:04:55] be fed so I'm going to go and find me a pastor on YouTube or whatever.
[00:05:00] I don't believe and I'm speaking from personal experience.
[00:05:04] I don't believe that really is God's heart.
[00:05:10] Like I do believe you can go to another church and God could use that obviously, but pastor
[00:05:15] Jeff Johnson who passed her faithfully for 50 years at Calvary Chapel in Downey, God
[00:05:22] chose this man for me and I'll tell you how I'm lost, could care less about church.
[00:05:29] I don't know anything about Calvary Chapel, neither do I care anything.
[00:05:33] Like church is like as far as you can think in my life, get invited to church, I get saved.
[00:05:43] And I believe that if God called me there and I didn't have this concept like I wasn't,
[00:05:48] didn't even read the Bible yet.
[00:05:50] I didn't even own a Bible when I got saved.
[00:05:52] I had to go to the store and buy one, but now looking back and looking at some of the
[00:05:56] struggles I had in that church and wanting to leave because I was upset about something
[00:06:00] like we all do, that God affirmed to me that he chose Jeff Johnson for me not the other
[00:06:06] way around.
[00:06:07] Do you have any initial thoughts on that topic or that thought?
[00:06:11] Well, I think that especially in those beginning days of walking with the Lord, the Lord uses
[00:06:18] those men in your life to help lay a foundation.
[00:06:22] The shock is you initially hold them to such a high standard because they know all about
[00:06:28] the Bible and you don't.
[00:06:30] And then, the longer you're with them, you find that they are human and that maybe they
[00:06:36] responded in the flesh one time.
[00:06:38] And it shocked you and you go, well, how can they be anointed by God and look what they
[00:06:43] did?
[00:06:44] And you focus on the error instead of the overall.
[00:06:48] I realize that there are abuses.
[00:06:52] There have been spiritual abuses of leaders, but you can't throw them all under the bus
[00:06:59] because a few of them have not behaved well and have not been faithful.
[00:07:07] And I think that I look back on my life and the people that God put in the first eight
[00:07:12] and a half years of my life.
[00:07:15] Some of them was pretty challenging.
[00:07:18] We were in a Christian youth ministry that I mean, it was a pretty high self, a pretty
[00:07:26] high sacrifice environment.
[00:07:29] And sometimes there were things that were done that were just harsh and I didn't understand
[00:07:35] it at the time, but now looking back on it given what they had to deal with.
[00:07:41] That's how they responded and God used it.
[00:07:45] And I think we need to step back for a second and make some assumptions, no abuse, no
[00:07:49] sin, no obviously there are times when you got to leave a church.
[00:07:55] I'm talking about this sense of the minor things.
[00:08:01] I don't like his jokes.
[00:08:03] I don't like his teaching style.
[00:08:07] I don't like the preference.
[00:08:10] We talked about this when it came to worship a couple of years ago, how we elevate preferences
[00:08:16] to something other than what they really need to be where we live in a day and age,
[00:08:22] where certainly where the Bible says that in the last days with our itching years are
[00:08:27] going to heap up teachers for ourselves.
[00:08:29] But that happens in this consumer culture to begin with where God put a pastor in your
[00:08:34] life.
[00:08:35] He put that pastor in your life.
[00:08:37] Again, no abuse.
[00:08:38] Obviously if there's abuse, you're not do not submit to that.
[00:08:42] That is not the heart of God.
[00:08:43] We're just talking normal men like you said, normal mistakes and things that I believe
[00:08:48] God would put you under the leadership of a particular pastor so that you could see
[00:08:52] those mistakes and learn from them.
[00:08:54] So you could respond to that personality and learn from them so that you could learn
[00:08:58] submission.
[00:08:59] You can learn honor.
[00:09:01] You can learn obedience even the Bible.
[00:09:03] Our Bible says to obey your leaders and learn how to live life outside of yourself.
[00:09:13] And one of the primary tools that God uses in our lives are pastors.
[00:09:18] And while we may have preferences, it's important that we accept that God puts pastors
[00:09:24] in our lives on purpose.
[00:09:26] That's true.
[00:09:27] I think that I grew so much under my first pastor who was John Higgins.
[00:09:34] Yes.
[00:09:35] And while he has his own way of doing things and his own personality and all that, there
[00:09:43] were lessons of discipleship and endurance and focus that I don't know if I would have
[00:09:50] picked up from anybody else because I watched it.
[00:09:54] I watched him live and out.
[00:09:55] I watched the fruit of it.
[00:09:59] And God puts those models like Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ.
[00:10:05] Yeah.
[00:10:06] One of the things that I like to teach in terms of ministry is where Moses has Aaron
[00:10:11] and her holding up his arms and what an uncomfortable place that must have been for Aaron
[00:10:17] and her to be out on a hot day on the armpits of Moses knowing that as they position
[00:10:23] themselves in such a way where his arms were up, there was victory.
[00:10:27] And when they fell, there was defeat and they wanted victory so they did whatever it needed
[00:10:31] to.
[00:10:32] And I refer to that as the armpit ministry.
[00:10:35] And really if you think about it, a lot of ministries that way, like you're dealing with
[00:10:40] the reality.
[00:10:41] If I'm around Bob long enough, I'm going to see weaknesses in Bob and Bob's around Ed
[00:10:45] long enough were humans.
[00:10:47] And I want you guys listening right now, even if you're a pastor or a leader, God put
[00:10:52] you in someone's life to minister to them.
[00:10:55] And one of the reasons it hurts when somebody leaves or bales or quits on you is that
[00:11:01] you value that relationship.
[00:11:03] Now let's talk relationship real quick.
[00:11:05] And then I want to talk about my love for Pastor Jeff for a second, but Pastor Jeff and
[00:11:10] I were not close.
[00:11:13] He wasn't that kind of man.
[00:11:14] Pastor Jeff was about the age of my dad.
[00:11:17] And you are as well.
[00:11:18] You're probably a little bit younger than my dad.
[00:11:21] Like Pastor Jeff was a little bit younger than my dad.
[00:11:23] And he came from a generation, you put your head down, you work.
[00:11:26] That's how I express that's how my dad expressed love.
[00:11:29] He worked to care the family didn't have to worry about anything.
[00:11:33] He worked overtime and just go, go, go.
[00:11:35] If he was sick, he went to work.
[00:11:36] If it like that's just how he was and that he wasn't super affectionate.
[00:11:41] There wasn't a lot of hugging in my life.
[00:11:43] But I knew he loved me because I figured it out somehow.
[00:11:46] That's how he expresses his love for me.
[00:11:48] So Pastor Jeff very similar.
[00:11:50] I was there for eight years.
[00:11:52] And in eight years, I probably spoke to the man three times.
[00:11:56] And it wasn't very substantive because he was fulfilling his call.
[00:12:02] And if you don't understand that, you'll be offended.
[00:12:04] But he wasn't mean spirited at all.
[00:12:06] He was a great guy.
[00:12:07] Very affable, very fun, very funny.
[00:12:11] He just had a call to Pastor Church of 6,000,000 people.
[00:12:17] And he was surrounded by, I don't know, 1213 pastors of which those are the ones I did
[00:12:23] serve with.
[00:12:24] One man in particular Rudy Cardenas who was the children's ministry pastor.
[00:12:29] He's the one I got a lot of time with.
[00:12:30] Although the time I got up with him wasn't like hanging out buddy, buddy going fishing because
[00:12:36] guess what?
[00:12:37] He had a call too to take care of those kids.
[00:12:40] I mean, the scope of the ministry at Downey when I was serving there on Wednesday night we
[00:12:44] served over 300 kids, not including junior high and high school.
[00:12:49] I mean the place was rocket man.
[00:12:50] It was it was unbelievable what we were a part of and it was amazing.
[00:12:54] But Pastor Rudy also he had his own calling.
[00:12:58] And so the time the most time that I spent with him was serving with him being alongside
[00:13:02] of them and going to funerals with him or right being in proximity so that I could learn
[00:13:09] and grow and he could speak into my life.
[00:13:12] So sometimes there's these expectations that men and women place on pastors that are
[00:13:18] just unfair and unreal where we want to be your friend and can you come to our house
[00:13:26] and have dinner.
[00:13:27] I would love to come to your house and have dinner but if I accepted every invitation that
[00:13:32] I receive from the precious flock that I have even when the church was much smaller,
[00:13:37] I would never have dinner with my family.
[00:13:40] And so I have to schedule it or I have to say no more often than yes.
[00:13:43] And Jeff, Pastor Jeff was like that.
[00:13:46] So someone it texts me, I'm so sorry that you experienced the loss of Pastor Jeff.
[00:13:51] I know he was a mentor to you.
[00:13:54] I want to explain that too.
[00:13:55] I can say very definitively that he was a mentor to me.
[00:14:00] However not how people use that word.
[00:14:03] So he didn't sit me down and say, Ed this is how you're supposed to do this.
[00:14:06] You have to do what he did to what he did.
[00:14:08] How he mentored me is he taught me the Bible.
[00:14:12] That's what he did.
[00:14:13] He taught me the Bible Sunday mornings, taught me the Bible Wednesday nights, taught me
[00:14:17] the Bible.
[00:14:18] If he had a vacation or a mission trip, guess what?
[00:14:21] He had somebody there to teach me the Bible and from a distance I could watch and from
[00:14:26] the discipleship from the distance.
[00:14:28] Yes.
[00:14:29] And the episodes that he had if he did a leadership thing, then he taught us as a group.
[00:14:33] But over the years you begin to appreciate everybody's different roles so that you also
[00:14:40] give room for those that are in your life to be who they are without any unrealistic
[00:14:45] expectations because pastors, they die the death of unrealistic expectations.
[00:14:51] And so for Pastor Jeff I had to receive that this is the man and God put him my life and
[00:14:57] this is what God wants him to do in my life.
[00:15:00] He wants that man to pray, study and teach me the Bible.
[00:15:04] And that's what he did and helped me tremendously become a man, a husband, a dad, an employee,
[00:15:12] eventually a boss, a leader, an elder, a pastor, a church planner.
[00:15:17] And Jeff would sit down and he's like I didn't know what I did any of that.
[00:15:21] How did I do that?
[00:15:23] I was out surfing.
[00:15:24] And I was hanging with my grandkids.
[00:15:26] You know, I was living life not that in lieu of ministry like I'm being facetious in some
[00:15:33] regards although he did get days off but he's praying, studying, teaching and I'm in a mode
[00:15:41] of receiving.
[00:15:44] And I think it's important for everyone listening here to know and not underestimate that the
[00:15:51] systematic teaching of the Bible is discipleship.
[00:15:56] It is not replaced even what gets read into the life of Jesus.
[00:16:01] Jesus in his discipleship was unique.
[00:16:05] He was training men to save the world and we fall short, we obviously this is where people
[00:16:11] take things too far or you should disciple like Jesus.
[00:16:15] I know yes, I agree.
[00:16:17] However, you already begin to make exceptions when you're not willing to quit your job and
[00:16:22] live with me for three years.
[00:16:23] I mean that nobody does that because that's not realistic.
[00:16:27] So we approach a first century God in human flesh model with applications that might facilitate
[00:16:34] our growth.
[00:16:36] When you plant a church it's you and your family opening up your home or maybe you and
[00:16:41] the small team going to a town and the people that first come in and are with you.
[00:16:48] You have more intimate relationship with them because of just the size of things but when
[00:16:54] you step into a work that's large, you can't expect that same level of intimacy with
[00:17:03] the leader.
[00:17:04] It's not practical.
[00:17:08] It just doesn't work that way and it's not just about you, it's about what God is doing
[00:17:14] in that particular season of your life or the season of the church life.
[00:17:19] I mean I've pastored a medium sized church.
[00:17:23] I've pastored a very small church.
[00:17:25] The dynamics are different.
[00:17:27] I'm here and this is a larger church and there are more different strategy in diving
[00:17:36] in and getting to know people and clarifying your expectations.
[00:17:40] That word expectation keeps popping up because as a new believer, I had zero expectation.
[00:17:45] Literally.
[00:17:47] I was just wanting to stay out of jail and maybe my wife won't leave me and I don't even
[00:17:54] know what I knew I was a bad person but really had no knowledge of how bad I really was until
[00:18:02] the word of God and not even in a negative way, just a reality way.
[00:18:07] I had no expectations.
[00:18:08] However, as things began to get cleaned up as I became a different man as a born-again
[00:18:14] believer as I began to know the Bible as I listened to the Bible Answer Man on the radio
[00:18:19] or whatever.
[00:18:20] All of a sudden I have these expectations.
[00:18:23] All of a sudden I approach Jeff when I first walked into that church.
[00:18:28] Is this what you guys do?
[00:18:29] Okay, I'm ready to do it.
[00:18:30] Is this what you guys do?
[00:18:31] Okay, I'm ready to do it.
[00:18:32] What is this?
[00:18:33] Communities?
[00:18:34] What you do?
[00:18:35] Okay.
[00:18:36] And somewhere subtly down the road, is this what you guys do?
[00:18:38] I don't like it.
[00:18:40] Is this what you guys do?
[00:18:41] I don't know.
[00:18:43] What happened to me?
[00:18:44] What happens to us where we go in wide-eyed and expectant from the Lord and now our expectations
[00:18:52] become very, very selfish and self-centered.
[00:18:56] And we blame the pastor for things.
[00:18:58] We blame the church for things that it's nothing to do with the pastor or the church.
[00:19:02] It's all you.
[00:19:03] But that's human relationships.
[00:19:04] Yeah.
[00:19:05] I mean, all of a sudden you meet this girl and it's just like, amazing.
[00:19:11] And then you spend time with her and she with you and after a while.
[00:19:16] You know, it's amazing that things that you first saw as enchanting and so cool after
[00:19:22] while become kind of different.
[00:19:25] And then even after a while, it's like they're so annoying.
[00:19:28] Those very same things.
[00:19:29] Yeah.
[00:19:30] Now they're annoying and they're like, you're ready to break relationship because how
[00:19:36] odd, you know, what kind of an odd bird is this?
[00:19:39] But those are the same things that drew you.
[00:19:41] I mean, is this human relationship?
[00:19:43] Of course.
[00:19:44] But when it comes to the church, maybe your pastor listening and your leader and you had
[00:19:48] somebody leave, you know, the Bible teaching church like ours.
[00:19:53] The thing that we hear the most is, oh yeah, I'm not being fed anymore.
[00:19:57] You know, that's like taking somebody to buffet and they sit at the table.
[00:20:02] Yeah, I'm hungry.
[00:20:03] I'm not being fed.
[00:20:04] The food's right there.
[00:20:05] It's all served for you.
[00:20:06] Like just pick it up and put it in your mouth.
[00:20:10] What's trying to be communicated is something completely different than not being fed.
[00:20:16] There's preferences and everything.
[00:20:18] But I just think back as I've been thinking about Pastor Jeff since his passing, just God
[00:20:23] chose that man for me.
[00:20:25] And I had to learn to appreciate that after I became so hotty and high-minded and prideful
[00:20:32] because it didn't start out that way.
[00:20:33] In the beginning, it was like, oh yes, oh yes.
[00:20:36] Something changed and I'm like, oh no, no.
[00:20:38] You know, you hear people too.
[00:20:39] You hear gossip.
[00:20:40] You hear complaining.
[00:20:41] You hear and like, oh I didn't know.
[00:20:44] Yeah, it's like what I warned our church.
[00:20:46] Like stop gossiping.
[00:20:47] You don't even, those folks were just living their life, like loving the Lord until you came
[00:20:52] and started soiling their mind with this stuff.
[00:20:55] Now they're upset like you are and they weren't upset before you showed up.
[00:20:58] So stop it.
[00:20:59] Stop sending.
[00:21:00] It's defiling.
[00:21:01] But I think back to those years and now 30 years later in the relationship that we
[00:21:05] did develop and the more I did get to understand him and his wife and the more I did get to
[00:21:11] serve, I mean, jeez.
[00:21:12] I got to serve alongside of them.
[00:21:14] I served at conferences with them.
[00:21:15] I taught him.
[00:21:16] I taught it as church while he's sitting there with his like to your own pastor.
[00:21:20] But then I learned that although he is always my pastor, there wasn't semblance where I got
[00:21:26] to serve alongside of him when we were co-laborers together where I didn't just hold up his
[00:21:31] arms but I held up his arms by filling the pulpit that God entrusted to him.
[00:21:35] So it's a bummer when a good man dies.
[00:21:38] We had pastor Avan pass away here in our own church recently and when I shared at the
[00:21:44] memorial, I shared like when a good man dies with Isaiah when everything changed for Isaiah
[00:21:51] when King Ezekiah died.
[00:21:53] That's when everybody's eyes opened up and that's when Isaiah very well could have had
[00:21:58] his eyes on the king and when his eyes were off the king and back on the Lord, he saw
[00:22:03] the Lord high and lifted up.
[00:22:05] So it's hard.
[00:22:06] Have you ever lost a pastor in your life in the last few years like that?
[00:22:10] It's a death.
[00:22:12] Some friends, some colleagues, Charlie Johnson started almost.
[00:22:19] He was in Apache Junction, Arizona.
[00:22:24] Co-labored a long time there.
[00:22:26] He always had heart issues.
[00:22:30] I've had other people that they just since actually the Phil Pachonis over in England.
[00:22:38] That was a big blow.
[00:22:39] He was the one that, and I watched him go down.
[00:22:43] He had stomach cancer and then he had sepsis and I watched him go down and it was, you know,
[00:22:53] kind of rocked my world because he was quite a visionary on what could have happened
[00:22:57] in the southwestern part of England.
[00:23:00] And with that voice no longer there, I had to get my eyes back on the Lord and saying
[00:23:06] Lord it's you and me.
[00:23:08] And although I liked that, that he was there and spoke into my life and all was an inspiration,
[00:23:15] the Lord is my has to be my inspiration ultimately.
[00:23:18] And so it was a reminder for me, you know, we were over there when Pastor Chuck passed away.
[00:23:24] We knew that day was probably coming but then it's like a slap in the face.
[00:23:28] It does hurt.
[00:23:29] Oh yeah, yeah.
[00:23:30] And then a year later Phil went and so it was like boom, boom.
[00:23:34] And yeah, so I mean that's, but it's just the reality of life though.
[00:23:38] It is.
[00:23:39] And we have to be ready for it.
[00:23:41] I would even add to that that while our pastors are alive, we should remember them, encourage
[00:23:49] them, serve them like that.
[00:23:52] It's important.
[00:23:53] And even if you're a pastor listening right now and you're kind of like, hey man, hey
[00:23:56] man, even in your role as a brother, you have that opportunity to pour into your pastor
[00:24:02] or encourage them now.
[00:24:03] Of course, if you have lost your pastor because of abuse or something, then develop a real
[00:24:09] close relationship where you invite someone into your life to speak hard things to you
[00:24:13] or to give you direction because you also need you also need someone in your life like
[00:24:19] Paul that can speak forth the word of God into your life in a fresh way.
[00:24:23] Not one, you know, my pastor's on the radio or my pastors, that's not technically possible.
[00:24:29] Pastoral ministry and relationships are personal, not technological.
[00:24:33] So it has to come second.
[00:24:34] There's no accountability when you're just right online.
[00:24:38] Right.
[00:24:39] And God has designed that accountability and the body of Christ.
[00:24:42] And without that, you're kind of a loose cannon.
[00:24:46] Yeah.
[00:24:47] I want to thank God publicly for Pastor Jeff Johnson.
[00:24:50] He's happy, we're sad and as I remind, and really as we're talking about some of these
[00:24:56] difficulties, I really never had a problem with Pastor Jeff.
[00:25:00] I questioned a couple of his of his choices as pastor before where that's only because
[00:25:07] I was so desperate to be on staff.
[00:25:09] I wanted so desperately to be a staff pastor and he would bring up somebody that they got
[00:25:14] it and I didn't.
[00:25:15] They didn't bring up someone, they got it and I didn't.
[00:25:17] But that was not a pastor Jeff problem.
[00:25:20] That was an Ed problem.
[00:25:21] That was all me.
[00:25:22] And I had to learn that though.
[00:25:24] I had to learn that I'll give you a quick quiet.
[00:25:28] We're winding down today.
[00:25:29] I got two things to share on this episode.
[00:25:32] But on the last guy he brought up, he called him his Timothy and it was just I was so upset
[00:25:41] and I was like, doesn't he know who I am?
[00:25:43] What I do all of it.
[00:25:44] It was so bad.
[00:25:46] And I had decided we are going to another church.
[00:25:51] And I had all my reasons that were invalid completely.
[00:25:55] But on the way out, I had to tell my overseeing pastors.
[00:25:59] And so the first guy go to, he was overseeing me in a couple of ministries and I made an appointment
[00:26:05] with them and I went in and I'm out of here and he goes, where are you going?
[00:26:08] And I'm like, no, I'm serious.
[00:26:09] I'm leaving this church and I, you know because of so and so is a new pastor here and Jeff
[00:26:13] doesn't know me and he just lets me talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk
[00:26:19] and he pauses there in his office.
[00:26:20] I have a visual memory.
[00:26:22] So I remember it.
[00:26:23] And I don't remember the exact words but I got the whole visual sitting in his office
[00:26:27] there.
[00:26:28] He lets me talk and he says, okay.
[00:26:31] So where are you going?
[00:26:33] I don't know anywhere but here.
[00:26:34] I don't know yet.
[00:26:35] So, you know, your God's going to lead you out of the church and your family is going
[00:26:39] to be out there all by.
[00:26:40] You know, he's giving me great counsel but kind of being edgy about it because I was edgy
[00:26:43] about it.
[00:26:44] And then he told me something that he wasn't really known for these nuggets of truth but
[00:26:50] this was a nugget that I'll never forget.
[00:26:52] He looked at me after everything was said and done and we're pretty much wrapping up and
[00:26:56] he said, so Ed, you think your pastor is bigger than God?
[00:27:02] When you're talking about, yeah, it really sounds like you're giving pastor Jeff way
[00:27:07] more credit for what's going on than God because obviously God's doing a work here and
[00:27:14] he's doing a work with that guy that's up on the stage but look what he's doing with
[00:27:17] you.
[00:27:18] And I'm like, oh man, I didn't even make the appointment with the other pastor like I'm
[00:27:25] like you're so right.
[00:27:26] I'm so wrong.
[00:27:27] I mean, I'm tearing up thinking about it.
[00:27:28] I was so wrong.
[00:27:29] It had nothing to do with my pastor.
[00:27:32] It had everything to do with me and then God put one of his assistants in my life, Glenn
[00:27:38] who was just speaking for it like just talk, talk, talk.
[00:27:41] He's like you know, and really the word he wanted to tell me is God is bigger.
[00:27:45] You can trust God.
[00:27:47] God's doing something here.
[00:27:48] And now I look back.
[00:27:49] I can see a couple things he was doing and one of them was he didn't want me on stuff
[00:27:53] there.
[00:27:54] He wanted me to keep my job.
[00:27:56] Yeah.
[00:27:57] And there's probably a lot of reasons, but one of them is he wanted to keep my job because
[00:28:00] through a lot of those, that's how I moved to Colorado.
[00:28:03] That job.
[00:28:04] Yeah.
[00:28:05] He wanted me to be on that teaching that I still listen to Pastor Jeff almost every day.
[00:28:09] That's the man that God gave me of ear to hear his teaching and that's the man that God
[00:28:15] would surround him with and have these people pastor me and that's how I like I can go
[00:28:19] through it to run away because somebody even offered me in those early days an assistant
[00:28:24] pastor job.
[00:28:26] And I see the potential in you and you're going to be a great pastor one day, and I'm telling
[00:28:31] you man, I was so tempted because that's all I wanted was notoriety in the title.
[00:28:36] And I didn't want the Lord.
[00:28:38] And fortunately, I had enough sense and so did Marie to help me as my wife just in it
[00:28:43] was young.
[00:28:44] I was like a couple years on the Lord like I was all jacked up still I still like I
[00:28:48] need a lot of maturity.
[00:28:50] And maybe this pastor did see something in me.
[00:28:52] It's great, but it wasn't the will of the Lord.
[00:28:55] It wasn't God had worked for me to do and so I want to thank God for longevity.
[00:29:00] I thank you for the 29 years you gave to North Phoenix.
[00:29:05] I thanks God for the 50 years that Pastor Jeff gave to Downey.
[00:29:09] And I mean, he's one of those low key under the radar doesn't get a lot of attention pastors.
[00:29:15] But the proof of his ministry there are literally people around me.
[00:29:18] I was just texting or excuse me emailing with a brother Jeff and his wife Christina who
[00:29:22] serving in Georgia.
[00:29:23] They were the cutting edge families that planted all the churches and Vladimir, maybe even
[00:29:28] connected to when you lost your lost or left your wife in Siberia on purpose.
[00:29:39] But you know, I was just texting with Jeff and what God's doing here and his Jeff's brothers
[00:29:43] in Idaho doing a great work and twin falls.
[00:29:47] And on and on, I mean, there's so many people in Colorado that came out of Downey pastoring
[00:29:51] churches here as well.
[00:29:52] So just wanted to get that out.
[00:29:55] It's been on my mind kind of a spur of the moment topic, but God picks your pastor for
[00:30:00] you.
[00:30:01] And you should do what the Bible says.
[00:30:04] Remember your leaders who have taught you the word of God.
[00:30:07] Think of all the good is come from their lives and follow the example of their faith.
[00:30:13] Obey your spiritual leaders.
[00:30:15] Do what they say their work is to watch over your souls and they are accountable to God.
[00:30:21] Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow.
[00:30:26] That would certainly not be for your benefit.
[00:30:29] And finally, greet all your leaders and all the believers there, the believers from Italy
[00:30:34] send their greetings.
[00:30:36] So remember, obey, greet them, love them, serve your pastors.
[00:30:41] And if you're a pastor and you're really going through it right now, we're sorry.
[00:30:46] It is hard.
[00:30:47] Seen people leave the newest, latest thing.
[00:30:50] They got this youth group and you don't have a youth group and they got this and you
[00:30:53] don't got this and you but you be faithful because God has called you to a calling and you're
[00:30:59] right.
[00:31:00] You probably never have a youth group like that because that's not what God will for
[00:31:02] you is.
[00:31:03] They probably don't teach the Bible.
[00:31:05] So what is it that you want?
[00:31:07] You spend all that time teaching the Bible.
[00:31:10] They use the Bible but they don't teach the Bible and you know, I was thinking this
[00:31:14] too because we have people leaving the church here all the time for the latest and the
[00:31:18] greatest.
[00:31:19] There's always some new church, some new big things, some new popular thing, new building
[00:31:24] whatever.
[00:31:25] And one of the things many years ago that the Lord just reminded me of is you know,
[00:31:28] Ed, you were the new church once.
[00:31:30] It's okay.
[00:31:32] Let me do what I want to do with my sheep.
[00:31:34] Then let them make mistakes or what?
[00:31:36] Let me take care of the flock and you tend the flock that is under your care.
[00:31:42] And it's, you know, that's okay.
[00:31:44] That's okay.
[00:31:45] They're new things because new people are being reached and we just need to pray to be
[00:31:48] faithful in what we're doing.
[00:31:50] And I have a pastor, Jeff Johnson who's in the presence of the Lord.
[00:31:54] We're praying now for his wife Karen, Tara Christie, the grandkittos and everyone connected
[00:32:00] to them that the Lord would encourage them and strengthen them.
[00:32:03] And of course, blessed pastor art and all that God's doing in the new leadership because
[00:32:08] he had just handed it over to a young man to take this church and in the new generation.
[00:32:13] And may the Lord continue to do what he wants to do.
[00:32:15] Amen.
[00:32:16] Amen.
[00:32:17] All right.
[00:32:18] Well, thanks for sitting in through this impromptu session.
[00:32:21] But I want you to learn how to appreciate your pastor, love on them, serve them, tell
[00:32:25] them that, write them notes, text them, give them gifts, whatever it might be.
[00:32:30] Let God use you to be an encouragement to your pastor.
[00:32:33] Don't lop on them all these unrealistic expectations.
[00:32:37] It breaks relationship.
[00:32:39] Let the pastor be who God's calling them to be.
[00:32:41] This is another episode of lead to serve.
[00:32:43] You have any feedback?
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[00:33:01] You can text me directly 720608012 email me at edtaler.org.
[00:33:09] My website is edtaler.org or the church website calvaryco.church.
[00:33:14] So lots of information, but the Lord bless you, encourage you, strengthen you.
[00:33:19] And until next time, stay close and stay in the grace of Jesus.
[00:33:24] Thank you for joining us for this episode of lead to serve with pastor ed Taylor, a leadership
[00:33:29] podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.
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