Quitting. It's a popular choice when things are challenging, complicated, and hard. The choice to stop is always before the Servant Leader. How do you know when it's time to move on? When do you agree that one season is over and another is beginning? These questions and more will be addressed on today's episode of the Lead2Serve podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share this podcast. It helps a lot.
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Welcome to today's broadcast of lead to serve a leadership
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podcast with Ed Taylor, welcome again, to another addition to
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today's edition of the lead to serve podcast.
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My name is Ed Taylor. I'm the pastor here at Calvary
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Church in Aurora, Colorado have the privilege of serving with
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many wonderful women and men in Ministry to this community and
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Beyond. This is season number four of
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our podcast and four season. Number four, we have had a
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guest. I have had a guest with us as we
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talk through things 50. Yes, you heard that correctly,
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50, 50 years of ministry, experience, much of them.
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Most of them as a senior pastor as a lead pastor, but almost all
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of them in some sort of pastoral type Ministry, if you would
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welcome again. And we want to welcome you
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again, Bob. Clay Camp.
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Welcome, brother. Hey, it's a joy to be a part of
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this is just glorious. Yeah.
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The feedback on this season has been really good, especially in
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this dialogue of talking things through your point of view, my
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point of view, our point of view, and it's been really good
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to have you and the mindset that we have with the podcast is
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exactly what the name means lead to serve.
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I guess we could have called it serve to lead as well, but But
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it flowed better with lead to ideas.
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This be a good servant under the Lord, we're using biblical
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principles that is our tool. We're not the type of podcast,
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it's going to bring in all these kind of business philosophies or
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any things like that. Not that they're good or bad,
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that's just not the purpose of our podcast.
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The purpose of our podcast is to distill from the word to distill
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from, maybe some successes that we've had, certainly from
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failures that we had to talk about what will make us better.
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Servants, that will make us better leaders, that will make
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us better servants. And on that cycle goes, and
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that's a good cycle to be in. In our last episode, we talked
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about closed doors and open doors, because just felt like
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the flow of these episodes that we needed to really affirm to
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you listening in that. Yes, open doors are great.
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But closed doors are great too even though they are extremely
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painful. So if you're just dropping into
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the podcast right now, Because somebody recommended it to you.
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I'd encourage you, we still have, I don't know how long
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we're going to have them up, but we still have all the episodes
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up and you can listen from season 1, but eventually we're
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going to take down the seasons and redo them, I think.
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But they're all up there. Now, take advantage of them.
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They're really. I have about, I have 23 years
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experience here. I'm learning a lot like not.
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I don't come to you, like, I got it all together, but I have
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learned a lot and I have made some significant mistakes.
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In serving God, in the context of this church in the context of
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my previous church. And if you can learn from my
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successes or failures, and you can avoid the failures yourself,
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I'd say that's a good deal. Make sure that before we jump
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into today's topic which is the topic of quitting, we're just
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going to say, we're going to use the word.
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Some of you listening in have considered quitting recently,
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especially post pandemic. Coming out of some of the
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hardest years of of ministry in our generation and the thought
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of quitting. I mean, we could always pull out
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the statistics, whatever the numbers are pastors are
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quitting, passers acquitting. If it was thousands of pastors
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or just one quitting in the flesh is never.
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Okay. Quitting in the flesh is never
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okay, but we'll talk a little bit about that but again before
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we jump into the topic, I want to remind you that your topics
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if you have something you want to hear us talk about.
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Email me at Ed at Ed Taylor dot, o-- r-- g--, it has to be
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dot-org. Ed Ed Ed Taylor dot org?
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Or you can always text in 720, 60 80 0, 1 2, 7, 2 0, 6, 0 8, 0
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0, 1 2, or the website. For our church here.
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I'm sure you've already downloaded.
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Our app is Calvary Co dot Church.
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Calvary Co dot Church. You should download the app.
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Stay in stay in. Touch with us, especially.
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Turn on notifications because I send something out every morning
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Monday through Saturday every morning and encouragement of
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some sort. We send out reminders, we send
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out encouragement so get the app turn on notifications.
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Okay, Bob, here we go quitting. All right, there's a lot of
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different angles to take with quitting but let's just go ahead
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and I had the definition up here a minute ago.
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I wanted to have to look it up again so let me just look it up
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again and let's talk About this definition of quitting.
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According to the New Oxford dictionary, quitting means to
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leave a place. Usually permanently also means
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to resign as a job or another another definition which doesn't
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matter is to behave in a specified way but that's not our
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purpose. So I like this Leaf from a
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place, usually permanently quitting.
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I think we have to Define our terms.
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Terms. It's never okay to quit In the
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Flesh. What are your thoughts on that
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general statement? Well, I believe that there are
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seasons where we are very discouraged.
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What we had hoped would happen is not happening, and it's
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coming, it's becoming less, and less.
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And a lot of times people quit because they just don't see any
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hope and Be behind the quitting is a loss of hope that I think
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is a core issue discouragement there, their picture of what it
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looks like or what it was supposed to look like is not
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happening and where culture that likes to run from things.
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We like to cancel things out and many times we think that just
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leaving and running is going to settle it.
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But the problem is an internal problems to start with.
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And so before we do that, knee-jerk reaction, well, I'm
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just going to quit that'll show them.
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Well, you're going to be, you know, at the end of the day A
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year later and you're there on food stamps and and you thinkin,
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you know, was it really was that really spirit-led or was I just
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in frustration, trying to trying to punish them by me living
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leaving. And so who's being punished
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though and and, and so there's It's quitting in the flash means
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that you're just doing things on an emotional reaction and not
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really thinking it through and taking time for the Holy Spirit
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to lead you through the internal changes that seem to be going
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on. Yeah, I think that I was.
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I know that I've watched people quit in times of great
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discouragement, whether it's pastoring a church, Ouch?
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Whether it is difficult, a Ministry in the church, whether
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it's a job and related to the season that they're in.
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And one of the things that God has blessed me with moving, a
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Colorado is Seasons, you know, Southern California, you don't
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really experience Seasons. All that much, except for
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beautiful and cold, and beautiful, and warm.
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I mean in, maybe rainy, every once in a while.
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But moving here to Colorado, there are four distinct Seasons
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the seasons come and they go. And for me, the season that I
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have to learn to endure of of the for is winter.
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I'm not a big fan of winter or the snow or shoveling or the ice
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driving on ice and you, you can make a lot of bad decisions in
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winter seasons, instead of saying, no, just understand
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this. Season's going to Mass, it will
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warm up again. I mean today it's 83 degrees so
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we're heading out, I'm I'm unbelievable.
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I didn't actually get to go out much today but I'm happy that
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it's the season of winter seems to be passing with these warmer
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days in the sunnier days. But one of the a couple, a
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couple things, you know, thinking this through, first of
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all, I want to talk about Elijah because I think Elijah typifies.
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The feelings that we have that can overtake us, you know, the
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pandemics really messed with us, whether we realize it or not,
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it's changed. Our thinking, we're tired more
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often, maybe we re maybe the division that's still ongoing.
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I mean, it's now we got a whole new wave of division with the
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political climate and the difficult moral climate.
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And it's just so polarizing and divisive, but Barna.
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As I've mentioned before, does a lot of different surveys, a lot
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of different, a lot of different insights that they provide
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statistically and I want to give you the five reasons that
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pastors are giving these days. This was something in 2022, tour
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March. So about a year ago and this
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these are the top five reasons why pastors want to quit.
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Number one, the immense stress of the job.
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Number two, I feel lonely and isolated number three, current
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political divisions. Number four, I'm unhappy with
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the effect, this role has on my family and five.
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I'm not optimistic about the future of my church.
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Let me pop a couple ever other ones in there.
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My vision for the church conflicts with the church's
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Vision, so he can't lead. And then my church is steadily
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declining which it is happening all over.
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So there are bona fide reasons but you can see that they're
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very negative and that's what we're talking about here.
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Not, we're not talking about those times when it's time to
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move on number, what we were talking about last time closed
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doors, God is leading you in a new direction that the season is
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over and although it might be hard.
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You know. It's time to move on.
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It's time to try something else. It's God is closing one door so
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you can open another. We're not talking about that.
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Early. But what we're talking about is
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getting to that place of deep, like you said, Bob deep
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discouragement deep difficulty. And the example, in First Kings
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chapter 19, the example that God gives us a something like, this
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is Elijah, great Victory, on Mount Carmel, leads to Great,
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defeat in a cave. What are your thoughts about
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that? Well, I think after the
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emotional, No, involvement of what happened on Mount Carmel.
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There was this last indication as he's running ahead of ahab's
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Chariot. That finally, finally, there is
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Revival that's going to spark and Israel and he gets down at
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the bottom of the hill and he hears this threat from Jezebel
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saying by tomorrow I'll have your head and all the sudden the
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whole expectation collapses and he goes on the run out of fear
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and he takes his servant, he takes a serpent with And, and he
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drops a mop and like Beersheba, the the end of it while he think
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stay here, I'm out of here and he never comes back to that
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server and again, so this guy's is waiting forever and so that,
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that depression that disappointment that deep
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sadness, so overwhelmed him. It affected his servant to.
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And when we forget about, who else is affected in the fall out
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of it all. Yeah.
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I like how you mention Emotional because there are facts about
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God's call upon our life. As all these episodes are
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building one another, we are affirming God's call.
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We're seeing fruit in the ministry and then something
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happens and it can happen in our family.
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It can happen in our church. It seems like the emphasis and
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these top five things has been culturally the pressures been
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too much. It's been super hard although
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they do mention the family. Is challenging and the the
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desire to quit and we have to remember, maybe you're listening
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in right now and you're wanting to quit.
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And we want you to quit in a way that it's not from God.
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It's you personally can't do it anymore.
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You can't take it anymore. You don't want to do it anymore.
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I want to say that. I hope it's a season.
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I hope it's a season and I hope you don't make a drastic
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decision. I like to say don't make big
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decisions on bad days or make big decisions in Bad seasons
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that you would talk it through with someone.
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And get through the difficult. Especially, if you're the your
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categories, I feel alone and isolated.
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I mean, it's, that's a bummer, we shouldn't be alone.
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And isolated, this whole, there is a there, is this philosophy
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business philosophy, I learned it when I was in the corporate
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world and I think it it might be swirling around in the church
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world to, but that's the phrase, It's Lonely at the Top and and I
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get it. There is some sense where you
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have unique responsibilities and not a lot of people Oh, around
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you. But if you're lonely at the top,
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that's your fault in many ways. When you are, are serving in a
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level of leadership, we have to take the kingdom mindset.
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Jesus said that the Way Up Is Down and if I'm ascending to
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some role or position, that puts me in an isolated lonely place
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where I don't have bona fide friends in my life and, you
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know, starting with my spouse and then my children and then
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some Pastors are leaders in my life.
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I can just talk things through. Then part of that is on you, you
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know, and I would say that if we were to exegete this passage in
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First Kings, 19 with Elijah, why is he, why is he alone in the
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cave? Because he went there, he chose
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that he ran away, and sure it's hard and it's challenging, it's
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emotional, it's overwhelming, but let's be sure.
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And let's be clear that we can make things harder for ourselves
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and not easier. By making fleshly decisions upon
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fleshly decisions. It's not Lonely at the Top.
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If you ask for help and it's not Lonely at the Top.
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If you are shepherding, the flock of God that's among you.
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And you're like, wow, this is a people that I'm among that are
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causing me in the most pain will avoid them and find people that
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won't cause pain that love you and support you.
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I have a card here. I think of this precious Saint.
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I have a card right here on my desk in front of me.
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It's Those things where I leave things on my desk to remind me
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on bad days, but I have a card here from Sister Jeanette and
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that's how she signed it. And I'm not going to read the
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whole thing on the podcast, but I'm just, she's a thank you for
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what you both have done for this church.
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And it's a card to me and Marie. And she goes on to talk about
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just how God has used this little church in her life.
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And I know Sister suggested sister Jeanette, I know where
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she sits, I know where she's at. I know what service she came up
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after Easter. Gave me a big hug to, and, And I
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could just say that they're always sister, Jeanette's in
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your church, and there are always just, she's just an
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encouragement, she is a precious st.
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That God has sent to our church. That I know that if I feel like
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I'm taking in a Bible study, all I need to do is learn turn to
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the left and sister. Jeanette is going to be a
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mening. Me she her hand is going to be
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up affirming the message because she just she's that kind of
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she's the one to lock into her head.
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Don't worry about blowing. It lock in.
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Her you get back on track and you know, I'm using you and and
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I just I felt I felt like, you know, that that's your listening
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in and you feel lonely. And I'm not saying that there
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aren't those times where we do feel alone but you don't need to
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stay there. What are your thoughts?
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Have you ever had a season where you felt like that?
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And how did you handle it? Bob, sure.
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Absolutely. I think that there's a core
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issue of losing perspective. Mmm.
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Yeah. Because I was just like, Elijah
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Elijah lost perspective because he felt, he was the only one and
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the Lord said I've got 5. That haven't bowed the knee to
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Baal. I've got them reserved.
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I know where they are just because you don't know where
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they are. Doesn't mean I don't know where
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they are and he had lost his perspective and I'm glad that's
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in the scripture because Elijah was a man that did these Mighty
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Deeds but by the spirit of God upon him and yet, even after it
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Mendes Victory. You can have a tremendous
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depression at because you lose perspective and it does, it's
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not all about you, it's about what the Lord is doing outside
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of you. Not just with you, I'm reminded
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of David and Goliath, right? That the interesting insights
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with all that battle, but one thing that David showed us as a
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young man is that he had the right perspective, we would look
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at David and think, oh, poor David, you're going to be wiped
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out your Gonna be crushed, you're going to, if we didn't
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know, the end of the story, we'd be all nervous and upset and and
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what's going to happen. But it wasn't poor David, it was
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poor Goliath because the battle wasn't between David and Goliath
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it was between Goliath and God. Yeah, perspective is so
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important. Because Fear Can quickly crowd
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out any kind of faith in our lives.
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It can quickly take us from You know, when we, when we lose true
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perspective, we're being set up for discouragement defeat and
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ultimately destruction and you're right.
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We, you know, in these times of Seasons, especially when you're
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thinking, you know, there's a silly joke, you know, we you've
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heard of Uganda, the same conferences that that I've been
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to over the years and there's always a pastor to goes up and
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says, well, you know, I wrote my resignation and it's in my
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drawer and it's ready to send in And I never really liked that
00:19:03
because it's not a step of Faith.
00:19:06
Don't write your resignation and have it ready to turn in when
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you're that doesn't speak of hoopa Monet, or endurance, or
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don't do that, don't speak. Don't, don't coddle your
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discouragement don't make provision for your flesh.
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That difficult time doesn't need a letter of resignation.
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It needs a brother to encourage you and to remind you of your
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calling and what God wants to do in your life.
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And that this is a Third season but you're going to get through
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it and you don't need to be prepared to quit because God
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doesn't want you to quit. I think of that word.
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Who Pomona right where Paul tells I believe Paul was the
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author of Hebrews but Paul tells him you have need of endurance
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and I mean which one of us hasn't come to that and go.
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Yep. That's exactly what I need.
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And here's what he says, Hebrews 10:36 for you have need of
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endurance Hoopa Monet so that you after you have Done the will
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of God, you'll receive the promise so he's not even like
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not even thinking about doing the will of God, you need
00:20:08
endurance. So that after you like it's
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already Beyond, you are going to accomplish God's will in your
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life. And I think the purpose of the
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podcast today is just for us to say, don't quit man ask for some
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help. Don't quit because you're upset
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or discouraged or beat up or some of those things that the
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Barna report shared. I like all Oh, that's me.
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That's me whether there's help you're not alone.
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Yes. And I look back over my years of
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ministry in those seasons were I wanted to quit because I have to
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confess, I've had those seasons and looking back on it now it's
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because I had lost the full perspective and I started seeing
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my own disappointment over in my accomplishments that because I'm
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kind of a perfectionist and And in my mind, I have this picture
00:21:04
of what success looks like. And so often it's just fashion
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by the world or by comparison with others and and you're not
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making the grade in your own mind and you're not resting in
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the Lord, you lose perspective and you think, well, somebody
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else should take this on because I'm, I've done everything I can
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and it and then you accuse people and you accuse yourself,
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and you accuse, your wife and your future kids.
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Kids. I mean, you're just, you're just
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in a bummer and there's no, there's no fruit.
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There's no lights out of that kind of a mindset.
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And if you don't pull out of it, it's going to get worse and
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worse. And then you start beating the
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Block in your messages because it's their fault that things
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aren't happening. Like, when you had mentioned
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here that the Klein, there's a vision different things like
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that. And sometimes you just got to go
00:22:02
take a nap, get some rest or step away a little bit.
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Get some perspective back because when you started you
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were excited, you didn't care. How many were there.
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You were, just excited that anybody showed up and that was
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life. And after I remember 15 being in
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Scotland and his brother coming up and said, tell me what I'm
00:22:28
doing wrong. I've been here 15 years and now
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I'm Back to square one. I'm doing everything myself
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people, I'm trying to raise up. They either move away or they
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get mad at me and, and it's a god.
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What am I doing wrong? You've been in the ministry long
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enough to tell me what I'm doing wrong.
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And, and I'm hearing this a lot from from people in my
00:22:49
appointment, Ministry going around, helping other pastors
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and and it's just coming back in and giving perspective on God's
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calling on their life. So, how does Jesus see you right
00:23:04
now? Is he disappointed in you?
00:23:07
Or is he is, he just full of joy that you're with him?
00:23:11
And let's take it step by step here and let's break this down
00:23:16
perspective. In my mind, is always a loss of
00:23:22
perspective. It's always the core issue of
00:23:25
starting those quitting conversations in your mind
00:23:28
talking to other people praying. Coming back to getting out of
00:23:33
your environment. I know that there's been a wave
00:23:38
of within our Calvary family. We were never taught this or
00:23:42
given this direction, but there's been a wave of
00:23:43
sabbaticals where guys have been running so hard for so many
00:23:47
years. They've never really taken a
00:23:49
break and getting that break is amazing.
00:23:53
It's an amazing thing to pull back and just refresh.
00:23:56
Reboot. I I've learned over the years
00:23:59
that I need to take My time throughout the year, I need to
00:24:03
take my time regularly, when my kids were young with my family,
00:24:09
even when my kids were young with my wife, just me and her
00:24:12
that I could get away, be unavailable, not check my phone,
00:24:16
a thousand times a day, unplug seek.
00:24:19
The Lord of focus on the people who are there in front of me and
00:24:23
people that are most in and I always come back refreshed, I
00:24:25
always come back. Strengthened taking a break is
00:24:28
super important. I mean if it is and if it
00:24:31
becomes a place where man I break his not enough or a simple
00:24:36
little bit of time away, then it would be good to step away for a
00:24:39
season, but guided, you know, I would, I would want you to step
00:24:43
away guy, it for a guided season.
00:24:47
So that you because a lot of times people would just get so
00:24:49
tired and burn out and they'll step away or quit and then never
00:24:52
come back and that's not good. That's not God's will, but maybe
00:24:57
have somebody help you with it, you know, guide you through it.
00:25:01
So that there is a sense where God can replenish you refocus,
00:25:06
you strengthen you and I was reading in that that poll that I
00:25:10
shared with you for Barna, we talked about the top reasons.
00:25:13
Why guys are want a right pastors are wanting to quit but
00:25:17
here's another list. Same poll, they describe it as
00:25:21
Ministry encouragement by pastors who have not considered
00:25:25
quitting. So here are those that haven't
00:25:27
considered it and then they say why why haven't you considered
00:25:30
It. And here's the top five, I
00:25:32
believe in the value of my Ministry. 83% said that I
00:25:37
believe in the value of my Ministry, and that's what you
00:25:40
said, Bob, that's how we started.
00:25:42
I believe that God is using me to make a difference that there
00:25:46
is value in what I'm doing. Secondly, I feel a duty to stay
00:25:52
and fulfill my calling into this ministry, which is what we
00:25:55
talked about a couple episodes ago, finding your call stirring
00:25:58
it up being obedient Thirdly postures did not and that was
00:26:03
75% used. Click that box.
00:26:07
Another one was I'm satisfied in my job 73%. 67% this is number
00:26:14
four said my family supports me well and I would have to say
00:26:19
that I have a family like that. Like all my kids.
00:26:21
Yeah. My wife that we realized that
00:26:24
the calling and maybe that's another episode, how many more
00:26:27
episodes were like, but the calling of God is on a family.
00:26:30
Lee. Not just the man it's a family
00:26:32
calling. Yeah I meant it's not you mango
00:26:34
do it at Emory Emory says you go do it and I'll go do my own
00:26:38
thing. We can't fulfill God's.
00:26:40
We we can't do it that way. It's us.
00:26:43
It's we or nothing. So that's a cool one.
00:26:46
And then the fifth one is this is important work.
00:26:48
I've not been able to accomplish.
00:26:50
There is important, work Ministry work that I haven't
00:26:52
been able to accomplish yet. And I know that if I had to add
00:26:57
1 to this list, I would say in the seasons.
00:27:00
I've wanted to quit because I have had a few times where I was
00:27:04
done, just done and directly related to some of the conflict
00:27:09
with my son's passing and all this.
00:27:12
The difficulties surrounding that, that still exist, part of
00:27:16
that. Just like, and I know that one
00:27:19
of the reasons that I didn't quit is that the Lord affirmed
00:27:24
to me, the seasons going to pass at you.
00:27:26
You're feeling like it right now but you'll get through this,
00:27:30
you'll get through this. This, this will pass and you
00:27:33
know, a lot of these same ones I believe there's value in God
00:27:36
using me, I want to fulfill the call of God on my life.
00:27:39
I want to finish. That's another way of saying I
00:27:42
want to finish. Well I don't want to fall to the
00:27:45
Wayside. I don't want to trip along the
00:27:47
way but we're out of time again. Bob what a great conversation.
00:27:51
Wow. Okay good any final things that
00:27:54
yes I think that many leaders and pastors are afraid to take
00:28:00
us. Radical because they're afraid
00:28:02
that they won't be let back in. Yeah.
00:28:05
And fear fear becomes a major factor in and that's where you
00:28:09
need some outside. Help to help navigate that and
00:28:12
point in, you could share real quick info about your role
00:28:15
employment and maybe give some contact information about what
00:28:19
how to get ahold of how to contact you directly.
00:28:22
Yeah. The Pastor said apart
00:28:25
appointment Ministry at our long long time, Calgary pastors.
00:28:28
And we just want to come alongside side and assist in and
00:28:32
help. And if you're considering taking
00:28:36
a sabbatical because of how many years you've been doing this,
00:28:40
then we'd like to help you set up some parameters and
00:28:43
guidelines and also communicate healthy boundaries.
00:28:47
And so you can contact us at pointman ministries.com.
00:28:52
Po ime n ministries.com and one of the pointman pastors or
00:28:58
myself can begin. Conversation and see where it
00:29:02
can go. And if you're in Ministry, just
00:29:04
serving, maybe you're a mom that's fed up at home or you're
00:29:08
a CEO or I mean, any role that's where the family of God comes
00:29:13
in, there is a uniqueness with pastors and there's a
00:29:15
uniqueness, especially with leadership, senior pastor even
00:29:19
within an elder run churches, there's a pressure put upon the
00:29:23
elders that maybe you feel inadequate for you're the one
00:29:25
that keeps having to deal with everything that's where the body
00:29:29
of Christ comes in. And if you Really have no one
00:29:31
that you think that you can ask for help, you can just contact
00:29:34
us will serve you pray with you. We probably don't have all the
00:29:38
answers you're looking for but we can encourage you, we can
00:29:41
strengthen you, we can pray with you, we can be available to you.
00:29:45
We're a big resourcing church so we can resource you and point
00:29:49
you in the right direction books to read or studies to listen to.
00:29:53
But I am grateful for the longevity of the ministry that
00:29:58
we've been called to and the the longevity Of, you know, the
00:30:01
leading in the the strength of the holy spirit.
00:30:04
So whether you're a senior pastor pointed Ministries,
00:30:06
Pastor Bob in the team, they're truly trustworthy super helpful
00:30:11
or within the context of your church family asked for help.
00:30:16
That's the key you may and if you don't know where to ask for
00:30:19
help email us you can email me, email me directly.
00:30:22
Ed Ed Ed Taylor dot-org? It has to be dot-org Ed at Ed
00:30:27
Taylor dot org or website Calvary.
00:30:30
Co dot church. That's the website for the
00:30:33
podcast as well. And then you can always text
00:30:36
7206, 0800 127 2060 80012. I hope you are encouraged by the
00:30:47
lead to serve podcast. Leave us a route, positive
00:30:50
review, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe.
00:30:53
And then forward this on to somebody, if everybody just
00:30:56
forwarded on to one person exponentially, the audience
00:31:00
would Oh, and just forward it on.
00:31:02
I was I was listening to something.
00:31:03
Well, actually wasn't a podcast. I was listening to a Bible.
00:31:06
I was podcasting a Bible study and I was driving and I just
00:31:10
said, Hey Siri, send this to so and so and and he, and it sent
00:31:14
it amazingly, so it's that easy forward it on.
00:31:19
So some folks can be encouraged again.
00:31:21
Thanks Bob for being with us, you bet, you listening to the
00:31:24
lead to sort of podcast, connect with us until next time.
00:31:27
The Lord bless you. Encourage you in.
00:31:30
And by his spirit, thank you for joining us for this episode of
00:31:34
lead to serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a leadership podcast
00:31:37
from Calvary Church in Aurora. Colorado, if you have a
00:31:40
leadership question, you want to hear answered on a future lead
00:31:43
to serve podcast, please email it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co
00:31:47
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00:31:51
review us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social
00:31:54
media. Thanks again for joining us and
00:31:57
we'll see you next time right here on the lead to serve
00:31:59
podcast.
