Closed doors can be painful and challenging. Sometimes they will move a person into deep discouragement or even depression. On today's episode of Lead2Serve, Pastor Ed Taylor and Pastor Bob Claycamp remind us of the importance of knowing that both closed doors and open doors for ministry and life come from God. God uses closed doors (a NO) as much as He uses open doors (a YES) in our lives. You'll hear of a couple of examples in their lives to see God moves us where He wants us. Be sure to subscribe and share this episode. It helps a lot.
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This is Lee to serve with Ed Taylor a leadership podcast.
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Hey, welcome again to another episode of the lead to serve
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podcast. We produce it right here at
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Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.
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My name is Ed Taylor. I have the privilege of
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pastoring here at Calvary. Church.
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And the podcast has been designed to have a discussion
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about servanthood and Leadership talking about easy topics,
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difficult topics, and then the conversation will go in a
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variety of different ways. Because on this season, we have
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a special guest. So we decided this season for
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our time to be a dialogue and our guests with over 50 years of
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experience in ministries. Pastor, Bob, Clay Camp, welcome
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again. It's great.
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Great to be a part of this podcast.
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It's been good to have a discussion even though we are
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one some of it was in the studio, some of its on phone,
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like it is here because of timing and scheduling, but it's
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really good to have a dialogue and discussion about Ministry
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and we purposely and you might as might you guys might even
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listen as you're listening, we purposely do not script it.
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We want to talk about it, so it could go in a variety of
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different directions. How just as we begin Bob, Bob
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this being unscripted. What do you think about it?
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You like, it don't like it. What are your thoughts about
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that? I really like it actually
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because sometimes it can be so formalized and you have to go
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abcb and that's fine for those who are really into linear
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thinking. But there are times, when you're
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also wanting to be impacted by how the holy spirit is moving in
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a particular conversation, because You never know who's
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listening and how can you be sufficient to know more than me?
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That might be addressed in something like this.
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I'm one of those linear guys. So preffer, if it was my
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preference and I had all the time in the world, I'd probably
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outline this. I think of our mutual friend
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Bill Holdridge. When I was a guest on his poem
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and podcast, he sent me of one page or maybe it was two pages
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outline of exactly where we were headed and I mean, I loved it.
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I loved it personally. I actually pulled it out in the
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early days of our podcast to use it as a template and I think I
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used it once and I just can't, I can't do it.
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I don't have the time to do it, first of all, but I do like this
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dialogue because this is what it's like in my office if you
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and I are talking this is what it's like if we're talking after
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a service, this is what it's like.
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If we're striking up a conversation in the sanctuary or
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were grabbing a burger together and to me that really does
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reflect real dialogue in Ministry because you just Know
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which direction things are going to go.
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That's right. Yeah, so last in our last
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episode, we had this Rhema word, this real specific prophetic
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word about the effects of ministry and the topic was
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calling, but at the end as we were just looking at, maybe a
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couple of insights, there was this sense of hey, you know
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you're thinking about you're just telling God to take your
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wife, it's too hard. And I'm like, whoa, that was
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that was Heavy, we explained If you missed it, you should go
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back and listen to last week's episode as we talked about the
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calling of God, how do you discover the call of God?
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How do you live out? What is God use faithfulness?
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I mean, it was a rich episode and today in our episode today
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building again on our time last time we want to talk about
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closed, doors and open doors. And first of all that's that's
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Christian speak. That's Church speak.
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We use it. We use the phrase all the time.
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I'll look for God to open. Hours and look for God to close
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doors. But Bob, maybe you can give us
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Insight that you can unpack that Christian phrase for someone who
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may not be familiar with it. Yes, open doors is a phrase that
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Paul used an Open Door of opportunity.
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A door of opportunity has been open to me and it has to do with
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progress of the gospel and in that context and then you use
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that principle. And you're going to open door is
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a door of opportunity for me to go hear or speak to this person
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here, closed, or is when all the sudden, the opportunity shuts
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down and you can't go any further.
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You might be through a circumstance or a very strong
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impression on your heart, to keep your mouth shut and not
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approach that situation because self-control is one of the
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fruits of the Holy Spirit and there's a purpose in God saying,
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no, keep your mouth shut because it it it may get you into more
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deep weeds that you need to be in.
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And so and so as we know, we're so used to christianese and and
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yet we have to break it down because we have to understand
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that the majority of people we minister to may not be Believers
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at all, matter of fact. T' Bible Bible believing
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Christians are in the minority in the great minority and so
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just to say can we how can I break this down and bring it
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down to the bottom shelf, don't know, how can I share this so
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that it connects maybe use a illustration or a word picture
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or something because some people are just visual Learners.
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I think it's a great picture to it's something that we do all
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the time a closed. Or like a door in your house.
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A closed door means that access has been limited.
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It means that the the passageway is not open at the present time.
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And if, if we think of it, let's go to someone else's house.
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If I go to your house, Bob, and your door is closed and locked
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and I knock on on it, and there is no reply.
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Then that tells me a few things. That tells me, you're probably
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not home, or if you are home, you probably don't want to see
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me or talk to me. Me and you're telling Genie and
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hide Ed's here, Hide. I see him on the camera and,
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but, but the closed door says, I don't have access to anything in
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the house. I don't, you haven't given me a
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key to your house because if you gave me a key to your house,
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then I could put that key in the door with your permission
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because that's why you gave it to me.
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I can open the door and then the door.
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Now the doorway or access is open.
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So we use this all the time and you know, it's too bad that it
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became. A Christian cliche because
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people ignore Christian cliches. But what I have found is that
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the Christian, the popular Christian cliches actually are
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pregnant and filled with meaning.
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If we can just get to the bottom line and actually explain them
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closed doors, can't go in open doors you can go in and when it
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comes to the call of God, the reality of the call of God, is
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that one of the ways you will discover where God wants you in
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the body of Christ where he wants you in the world, what
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your ultimate It purpose is how he wants to use you in each
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season is through opened and closed doors, there will be
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opportunities that are given and there will be opportunities
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taken away. And, you know, I think the open
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doors are you know opportunities and will you do this and can you
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do this for me? And would you try this?
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And can you teach this Bible study?
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We all love open doors but we're not big fans of the closed
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doors. I think I think the thought of
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God using Cold things in your life is is hard.
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Like like, I know we're talking to people right now that have
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faced closed doors. Maybe even listening to this,
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like I can't believe this. I don't know it.
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God's ever going to use me again?
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I thought I was going to do this but now I can't do that because
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my leader said no, or I bombed or, you know, I made a big
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mistake and the the door is closed.
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Is there a? Is there a couple things Bob?
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Number one. Can you can you elaborate on the
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pain of closed doors? And, and secondly, do you have
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one? I am memory in your life of a
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closed door that was hard and God users are, do you have any
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feedback on that? Yeah, well first of all, what
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comes to mind is there is a 100% open door to the throne room of
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God. If you're a believer that door
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is never closed, you may feel like your prayers are bouncing
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off the sale. But I just want to tell you by
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the word of God, there is an open door to the throne room and
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you are never closed out and our feelings, sometimes get paid
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otherwise and that's where you have to press through and
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believe by faith, the truth of God's word, instead of your
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feelings and that he hears everyone hears every single call
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and plea I think closed. Doors are sometimes it shock
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you. It just seemed so obvious.
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Everything was speeding to a hasty quick blessed end and all
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of a sudden slam. And, you know, your nose is
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laying on the side of your faith face because you ran into the
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wall and you're going, what, what happened here?
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I'm dealing with a congregation now up and links or back in
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July, their long-term, pastor and wife. and pastor of the
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church was killed in a tragic car, accident back in July and
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all of a sudden the church was thrown into a huge closed-door
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of having their pastor and Perspective gets rocked, people
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process lost control closed or can represent loss as well and
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people process it different sometimes.
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They process it quickly, sometimes they process it over
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months and months. And some people just use that as
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an anger against God and they just lose perspective of the
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whole thing. I would say, losing your pastor
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and losing your posture. Sirs wife like suddenly and
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tragically like that was a sudden closed door for all the
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future Ministry that they were talking about all the future
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goals that God had laid before them through that leadership
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there and isn't the isn't one of the first responses to a closed
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doors to try to slam through it? Yeah, absolutely.
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You go, wait a minute, you know, this one statement and and you
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want to, you want to spiritualize the whole thing and
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then just pull yourself through it.
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And You have to stop when there's a closed door and you
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have to think about what is true.
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And what is true, is that God is Sovereign over all things and
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nothing. So surprise to him and that's
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where you have to back up and go.
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Okay. Lord, I hadn't counted on this.
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But now you're looking to do something.
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I wouldn't have chosen. So I want to I'm asking for your
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grace because they're strengthen your grace and I need
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perspective, the perspective of heaven and see me through while
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I'm learning in real life is God is in control.
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That's real life, and he's in control of the good times.
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He's in control with the bad times and the the key that were
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learning even through these difficult times is to remain
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open to the Holy Spirit to follow the Holy Spirit.
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Wherever he leads us and then to yield ourselves to the Holy
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Spirit even as the psalmist cried out in Psalm 31, he says
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lead me and guide me for your namesake instead of taking
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things into our own hands, doing our things, our own way and
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ultimately it's his will is going to Prevail.
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The question is, how will we enjoy it or will we enjoy it?
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And yeah, I was thinking of a closed-door.
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I asked you to share one but one popped into my mind that I'm
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familiar with. So I think those Singing in
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especially when we're talking leadership and servanthood in
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Ministry, I can think of a closed door that you and Jeanie
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experience and that is you had a very thriving, wonderful
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Ministry and Exeter England. And it was, it was going
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exceptionally. Well you guys loved it there.
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We visit you a couple times serving there and it's amazing
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place to serve you had this. This this was an incredible
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Ministry, you and Jeanie had to the young people that were
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attending. Attending University in Exeter,
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you are gathering together with them, cooking meals with them
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talking Ministry and life with them becoming a mom and dad or
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even a grandfather and grandmother Li influence in
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their life and then tragedy Struck.
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It wasn't, it wasn't death, but it was it was tragedy.
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Why don't you lead us into the tragedy, the closed-door, that
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eventually had you leave Exeter. Well, what Is back in 2018.
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I was having some difficulty with I thought it was acid
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reflux and then as time went on it seemed to get worse and then
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one morning my wife said you know, you need to go to
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emergency. They call it a any accident and
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emergency and who wants to go to emergency room for five hours?
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Just for a couple of Gaviscon tablets.
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So I him hard around. So I drove myself to the
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Emergency room went to triage and they set me down and said
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this is not acid reflux you're having a heart attack and I'm
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going no you don't understand. I just did give me the tablet so
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I'm gone. No I'm never taking my shirt
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off. You know taping me all up and
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and shoot me with morphine. I'm going this way.
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It's acid reflux. You don't use more of me than
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acid people like and all the sudden While at the end of the
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day, I had a stent put in because my left anterior artery
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was almost 100% block, which was the Widowmaker artery.
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And it was a game-changer because I had no intention of
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leaving Exeter because we had just gotten a residency and all
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of a sudden I was so weak. I couldn't even visit with
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people without falling asleep for five minutes.
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Well, and I couldn't go to church for two months because I
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couldn't be around. People was so weak and the Lord
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began to speak to me and say just impress on lot upon my
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heart. It's time to make a change and
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the long term transition plan. We had in place now became a
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short term transition and I transitioned the church to a
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British Pastor who was my leader and I mean you can't control
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everything and I look back and I think well maybe the Lord had to
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allow that to happen to get me to change because I can I can
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plot along for years. I mean I can just keep on going
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and sometimes he says I need to step in Bob and do an
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intervention and because we're going to change things up and
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that was that was a closed door. But I looked back on Out and I
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thank the Lord for his sovereignty and control and
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doing things his way. I just it's Grace, it's absolute
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Grace. Was there any pushback from you?
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Was it? Emotionally hard?
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I mean, we look back now we're five years from that but what
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was it like that in the beginning or did you did you
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fight to stay? Did you try to manipulate this?
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I can't fight this day and we came back and bought a house to
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be a Remnant. So eventually, when we decided
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to come Back, we have a place to live but upon closing, I was
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planning on getting a property management company to find a
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renter and man, strong, strong witness from the Holy Spirit,
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saying you're not finding a renter.
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You are moving back to the US and both Jeannie, and I were not
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ready for that word and we fought with it.
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But the blessing of the Lord is so kind, he gave me a scripture
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out of the end of Acts chapter 14 where Paul and Barnabas came
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back and the scripture was Paul and Barnabas return to Antioch
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from where they had been committed to the grace of God to
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do the work. They had now completed and that
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last phrase was the holy spirit's witness to me, that I
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had done what he had sent me there to do and it was now
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completed in God's own timing and it was time to come back for
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the next season. And I think it's so important to
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have scriptural affirmation when door is closed.
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You he speaks to you through his word and that was a definite
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word from the Lord. Using a text that may be applied
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to something else but was lifted out and applied to me and my
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life situation. I'm in Colorado here in Aurora
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specifically because of a closed door.
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We prayed for years about planning a church and we were we
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had a couple of couples with us ready on a church planting team.
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We just needed the location. We were pretty confident, 99.9
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percent confident that it wasn't going to be in Southern
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California where I grew up, where I was going to church and
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Downey California with my pastor Jeff Calvary Chapel there.
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And we had a large growing home Bible study that we could have
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easily We took and taken that group and Planet a church with
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that group and I'm sure if I would have asked Pastor Jeff, he
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would have said, yes, but we at the same, I never did ask him
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because I never did in that go in that direction because there
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was a higher truth, that was guiding my life and that is
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Paul's admonition not to build on another man's foundation.
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And we end up here are headed out of California, we know for
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sure and through a series of events, you know, I was looking
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primarily with my work. Where can I keep my job?
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Because we were also taught if you're planning a church.
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You should have a job. And I already had a job in
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California that happened to you have offices all around the
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country, I started knocking on doors, Georgia was one of the
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places, but the humidity and the bugs and all of that, wasn't the
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Lord close that door. Arizona was another Place
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Chandler. I remember in particular outside
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of Phoenix, because it was the fastest growing city Over
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250 back in 1998 99 and the Lord close that door too hot.
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I didn't want to melt like the asphalt when I first talked to
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you. If I the way that's when I first
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talked to you on the phone I was I was asking questions when I
00:20:00
was talking to people in Arizona saying, hey, what do you think?
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What do you think? I remember talking to Scott
00:20:04
Richards and hey, what do you think you're in Arizona, in
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Tucson? I he's I want to go to Chandler.
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He goes well then do it. Go ahead and it's like it was
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such an exciting time. I'm I ended up not going to
00:20:15
Arizona but became good friends with Scott.
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He's a great brother and and then we prayed about this city
00:20:23
in Southern Colorado, ended up taking a trip, there left from
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that trip, back to California, this is the city, resigning.
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All my positions, resigned my job because the place there
00:20:34
didn't have a job. For me, I had to, I would have
00:20:36
to find one, but I was so excited about Ministry.
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I was going to pump gas for Jesus, it didn't matter to me,
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we'd spend all our savings Things and it didn't matter.
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We were we were all in and yeah. And so I came back from that
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trip told, everybody told my wife and Marie says, well I want
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to see the city, I want to go and so did the other couple they
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wanted to see it, we drive in the middle of or in the
00:21:02
Christmas 98 between Christmas and New Year, we drove out to
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Colorado to rent a house. To I had a couple job
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interviews. And we were going to get our
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life going and the Holy Spirit spoke as we were driving into
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the City. And it was strange Bob because
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the holy spirit's voice sounded a lot like Maurice, my wife.
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It was a voice in The car said as we're driving into the city
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there's no way in the world add that I'm moving here and that's
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not a Right quote, but it's certainly how I heard it which
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began a series of events where that door was not just close.
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But it was slammed. Yeah, at my face and and and
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there's a lot to this story. The podcast isn't long enough
00:21:56
but there's a lot to the story but the summary with is this
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even though I didn't know it then what I was filled with
00:22:04
pride and eagerness and Zeal without knowledge perhaps on the
00:22:09
church planting front and I was going to move to Colorado to do
00:22:12
a Work for God. And God used that City.
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Not only to tell me. He doesn't want me there.
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That was clear. But also to tell me at, I don't
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need you to do a great work for God, just go home, I don't need
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you to do a great work for God just go home.
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Yeah. And I did, I went home and
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plugged right back into church I had my job was still available
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so I ended up plugging it back into my job and all of that all
00:22:38
worked out and it was, you know, the stories much longer but the
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but the ultimate Part of it is seven months later through a
00:22:44
series of events. We moved to Aurora like not only
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did we move here but I took a job.
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I had a job. I got a raise, they packed our
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stuff and put it in a truck. They flew us out here.
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Rented an apartment for us, it was tremendously open door that
00:23:02
came from the devastation. I've only had two deep bouts
00:23:06
with depression in my life. I have a I have a bent toward
00:23:11
that to begin with. I always kind of been Leave for
00:23:14
different seasons and after the death of my son, that some real
00:23:18
deep deep depression issues over the last 10 years.
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Although it's been a few years since I've had a deep, some
00:23:26
light ones, but not a deep one. That's one.
00:23:28
The other one is after that closed door, I was that was the
00:23:32
most depressed I've ever been. At that point in my life just
00:23:36
thinking, what a loser. I am.
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I can't believe it. I can't even pick the right
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City, man. I almost ruined my fam, I mean,
00:23:41
on, and on, and on the list. Went.
00:23:43
And by the time we get to Aurora God was it was like God was
00:23:48
saying, I don't need you Ed to do a great work for me, but I'm
00:23:54
going to do a great work in Aurora and if you want to be a
00:23:56
part of it, then you here's your Open Door, go ahead and move.
00:24:01
Yeah. And I remember part of the, it
00:24:03
was such a devastating thing. Bob is so hurtful for us Marie
00:24:07
and I like we were, we were like Marie, especially her mom had
00:24:10
just gotten saved. It was a very exciting time in
00:24:12
her family. It was just a neat, it was just
00:24:15
wonderful. For, when this Open Door, came
00:24:19
this opportunity at work. Came in July, just seven months
00:24:23
later. I was, I call Marie and I said,
00:24:25
hey, they just offer me a job in Aurora, you know, do you still
00:24:28
want to go and I fully expected her to say something like are
00:24:32
you crazy? What are you thinking, Ed?
00:24:34
We just did this. Why are you, what are you out of
00:24:37
your mind? We already know we're not
00:24:39
supposed to be in Colorado, but she didn't, she didn't.
00:24:42
She said, well at put in an application if you get the job.
00:24:46
Let's Go. And I'm like, no, no, no, you
00:24:47
don't understand that. I already know I'm going to get
00:24:50
the job. I mean, what I didn't know is
00:24:52
that nobody else wanted the job, ha, ha.
00:24:57
I learned that when I got here, but but I was, I was pretty much
00:25:01
a shirt. I was going to get it and but
00:25:03
man, nobody else wanted it because our company was taking
00:25:06
at the time. And at any rate, it's such a
00:25:08
great story but it started with great pain and yeah closed doors
00:25:13
are just part of the package folks, you're going to have to
00:25:15
embrace them and And I'll know, I know you're there a part of
00:25:18
your heart still in Exeter Bob. It is we wind down here.
00:25:21
Could use, can you say? Now, five years later that the
00:25:24
closed door led to some really exciting open doors and what are
00:25:27
they? Absolutely.
00:25:28
Sometimes we're we're so locked into our limited perspective of
00:25:33
what it looks like for us to be fruitful and active and all.
00:25:37
And we have to remember that God is the Creator.
00:25:40
And he's got, he's got things planned for us that he doesn't
00:25:44
want to tell us about it. He doesn't want to shortcutting.
00:25:48
He just wants us to hang in with him and be led by him as the
00:25:52
shepherd. Again, I look back in.
00:25:56
It was the best thing we did. And now it's, I mean, it goes
00:26:01
in, with our prayer, Lord, make my latter years, more fruitful,
00:26:05
than our former years, whatever that looks like, I let go of it.
00:26:09
It's none of my business, you just do it your way.
00:26:12
But the only way to have more fruit is to keep close to the
00:26:15
shepherd. Keep-keep abiding in the vine is
00:26:19
there. One part of coming back to the
00:26:21
states in these last five years? Is there anything maybe early on
00:26:26
in that first year that God used as an affirmation that it's
00:26:30
going to be okay? Bob I know you didn't want to
00:26:32
leave Exeter but here in the even in these early stages, is
00:26:36
there any kind of thing that you and Jeanie can remember and that
00:26:38
first year being back where God gave you a little bump of
00:26:42
encouragement? Well we had given up everything
00:26:45
to move to England. England and we gave away
00:26:48
everything. When we moved back and we had
00:26:50
nothing, we had some memorabilia from our family.
00:26:54
I had enough money to actually buy a car that was about it.
00:26:57
And so we're sitting on the floor in this house that we
00:27:01
bought, what time is it? And then the fellowship in
00:27:06
Aurora just rose up and all the sudden you know gave us their
00:27:12
this and that and this and that and the Lord peace, our life
00:27:16
back. Gather.
00:27:17
And here we are. Living in a house.
00:27:21
We don't deserve with furniture. That is, you know, it's good for
00:27:25
it your way, but we still don't deserve it.
00:27:27
It it we're in a Grace Place really.
00:27:31
Then at this part of our life be turning 72, next month.
00:27:37
I don't want to make any more mistakes.
00:27:38
I, I don't, I don't have time to recover and so I just want to
00:27:43
enjoy him and let him unfold things.
00:27:47
In his time. Yeah, I think the closed-door
00:27:49
represents Brokenness for a lot of you that are listening.
00:27:53
And that Brokenness is he essentially Because unless a
00:27:58
corn of wheat falls to the ground and that is it, is it a
00:28:01
bit abides alone? But if it dies, it will bear
00:28:04
much fruit and we want more fruit, but we don't want to be
00:28:08
cracked open. No, that's painful, isn't it?
00:28:11
That's the painful part will come to an end of another
00:28:14
podcast. That goes by super fast.
00:28:16
Fast. I know that the emphasis as we
00:28:20
were doing the previous podcast, I toward the end, I was just
00:28:23
thinking open doors, and close doors are an important is an
00:28:28
important topic to talk about. So I hope you enjoyed the
00:28:30
discussion. We want to hear your feedback as
00:28:33
we come to the close of today. Thanks again, Bob for being with
00:28:35
me. Absolutely.
00:28:38
And we truly appreciate this dialog, format of the podcast, a
00:28:41
lot of great feedback even while I'm while I'm here in front of
00:28:45
my computer and email came in feedback for the podcast.
00:28:48
So thank you guys for using an emailing us, Ed Ed Ed Taylor.
00:28:52
Dot-org comes directly to me as well as my website at Taylor.
00:28:57
Dot-org is how to contact me through the podcast.
00:29:02
We are we produce this lead to serve podcast here as a part of
00:29:06
a Pounding, Grace, media, and Outreach of Calvary Church in
00:29:10
Aurora, Colorado. A Calvary Chapel that we've been
00:29:13
here for 23 years serving the lord, ministering the gospel.
00:29:18
It's a privilege to do that. I hope that podcast has been
00:29:20
encouraging. You uplifting to you
00:29:24
strengthening to you. And I know that the, the enemy
00:29:27
of your soul would love to discourage you, especially
00:29:30
through closed doors. And then we, then the enemy
00:29:32
would love to us for us to take all the credit for the open
00:29:34
doors, and we just like know, God is Sovereign, we're gonna
00:29:38
trust him with our lives. We're not going to take credit
00:29:42
for something that isn't ours. And so until next time connect
00:29:47
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00:29:50
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00:29:53
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00:29:55
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00:29:56
So just click the Subscribe. You get it delivered to you.
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00:30:01
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00:30:05
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00:30:07
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00:30:09
Monday. So we do it on Tuesdays and we
00:30:12
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00:30:13
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00:30:15
If you have any questions or any show feedback you can text us
00:30:18
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00:30:27
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00:30:31
By the way, don't go to Doc cam because a professional Santa
00:30:34
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00:30:39
So at any rate at Taylor dot-org, God bless you, guys.
00:30:42
Until next time, leave the served podcast with Pastor Bob,
00:30:45
Clay Camp is our guest. Thank you for joining us for
00:30:49
this episode of lead to serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a
00:30:53
leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora.
00:30:55
Colorado, if you have a leadership question, you want to
00:30:58
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00:31:01
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00:31:11
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00:31:14
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