In today's episode, Pastor Ed Taylor and Pastor Bob Claycamp discuss the ongoing challenge of serving well while hurting. Serving can be one of the most painful things a person chooses to do, but will that hurt stop you? It's essential to learn to endure hardships like slander, gossip, betrayal, dishonesty, and a whole host of other challenging scenarios you will encounter. God will give you the strength to limp along while still serving well. The limp is not a good reason to stop serving. Listen in and share.
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Welcome to today's broadcast of lead to serve a leadership
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podcast with Ed Taylor. We welcome again to another
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edition of the lead to serve podcast.
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My name is Ed Taylor. And I Pastor here at Calvary
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Church in Aurora, Colorado and we have the privilege of putting
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this podcast together every week to talk about leadership.
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And Servanthood how they go together.
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You know, we want to learn how to serve.
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Well then we're going to lead well and then if we lead, well,
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we're going to absolutely serve well and on this particular
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season, I've had in studio with me and I want to welcome again,
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Pastor. Bob Clay Camp, welcome, Bob.
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Hey, it's great to be with you again, you can hear the, the
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technology or his voice. Sounds a little bit different
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because we haven't been able to be in studio.
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We're doing this by telephone on this episode and the next one at
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the least because Pastor Bob has been on assignment and we didn't
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anticipate necessarily the assignment how long it would be
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and we didn't know how long it would be.
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And so, he still on assignment and I think as we step Today's
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episode Bob we've got the topic of leading with a limp and
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before we get into the topic, though, why don't you fill us in
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very briefly of what On Assignment means?
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What's the ministry? You are a part of, I mean, I
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know you're on our team here and you're a phenomenal addition to
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our team, but you are also in a Ministry.
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You also have a Ministry that you do.
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Why don't you tell everyone listening?
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A little bit about that and what your assignment is right now,
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sure. I pastored for about twenty,
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nine years in Phoenix, in the north part of Phoenix and then
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turn that church over to our Second Son.
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The board voted for him to take the church and so, that freed up
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my wife and I to go around and be able to help out other
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pastors and wives all around the world.
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Actually, at how it ended up and the ministry that were a part of
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it's called pointman Ministries, and the word pointman is, Angela
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sighs, Greek word Point, may know which means to Shepherd or
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pastor and our there's about 13 pastors and wives that are
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longtime Calvary. Chapel pastors that are hard is
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to go around and to assist other pastors and wives.
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Whether it's to just provide encouragement, or maybe a set of
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fresh eyes coming into their Church, to see what things can
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be freshened up and changed and the Station goes only to the
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senior pastor and other times we step into a situation where
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there's a transition that needs to be done for various reasons
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and that kind of transition is what my wife and I are involved
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in up here in Northern Colorado, in a community called Windsor
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Colorado, the pastor and his wife died in a tragic car,
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accident back in July and we were asked to step in and see
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the church. Each through the healing process
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and help them in the establishment of finding their
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next Pastor. So that's part of what we do and
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it's a very fulfilling, very challenging outside our comfort
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zone so many times but we're up here in the area of Greeley
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Windsor. Loveland Fort Collins to see how
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the Lord is going to see us through it.
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And just, by way of reminder, Bob, how many total years have
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you been in Ministry, including pastoral Ministry?
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Ever, since I became a Believer, he jumped right into things back
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in 1969. That's when we encountered
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Calvary Chapel, they came up to Oregon.
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So watching the Jesus Revolution movie just brought brought back
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memories. So, you know, those days of
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laying hands on the car to get it started and all that.
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Yeah. Maybe you lived in one of those
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communal Ministry houses than you.
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Yeah, yeah. Yeah I ran I was in charge of
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two of them one in Portland. Oregon one in Richmond Virginia.
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We planted. Yeah.
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Amazing Days. Lots of stories.
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Yeah. I think before we end this
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season we're going to have a Jesus Revolution conversation on
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this. I think I think many people
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would love to hear your perspective.
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Okay. Yeah, good.
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We got it just came to mind but today, so thanks for that
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Insight your up in Northern Colorado.
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And I know that you're bringing you and Jeanie your wife or
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bringing a solid state. Stability.
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That's the word I think of all. We were studying this week about
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Moses and Aaron and Hur. And one of the words that that
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stuck out in Exodus 17 to me, which will be our next episode
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actually. But one of the words that stood
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out to me was steady and I think you brought an are bringing
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currently a steadiness to a church.
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That was deeply deeply hurt, which brings us to our topic
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today, be the church was hurt by the sudden it was sudden.
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Idiot tragic loss. And it really hit the church
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hard. I mean, I hit our community
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hard, it's cotton Nancy were. Yes.
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Wonderful. Wonderful pillars.
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Within the calvary family throughout Colorado and they
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have been almost. I think I've known him almost
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since when I moved here and he was serving in Colorado Springs.
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And and so right, I share a little bit of that and I think
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it's important for you to give us a little perspective because
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Limping implies a permanent pain.
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That limping is a, is adjustment to some type of pain or previous
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injury. And I think that you guys
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listening in right now words like hurt, bruised, battered
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worn-out, hindered, you could think of the ways, it was it's
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happened. Lied, lied about Slandered
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families coming and going, you know, especially as we have this
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kind of sub-theme of ministering post.
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Pandemic. Ministering to others is
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difficult. It's hard.
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It's challenging. And because of that, we get
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injured as leaders and servants and this is both Pat from the
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Pastoral level to overseeing a life group, or a homegroup, we
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get hurt. We get battered and bruised.
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I love that word, but we still need to move forward.
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Because of what God has called us to do.
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And so just as we begin any initial thoughts on the topic
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like you've been doing this a long time Bob.
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So I'm going to, I'm going to just go out on a limb and say
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that you have you have led with a limp?
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Can you talk about that? Yeah.
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When I when I think of that topic I think of David who
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became king later but When he first came into the picture with
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the Goliath scene and the armies of Israel, his rationale was he
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fought with a lion and a bear as a as a little guy watching his
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father's sheep and he put his life at risk to rescue that
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sheep and he says that he grabbed it by the beard to take
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the lamb out of its mouth. Mean, I can't even do that with
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my dogs and take something out of its mouth, that it was.
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And so I'm wondering what kind of scars were on David with a
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close encounter of the seventh kind of went, he's ripping out a
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lamb out of the mouth of a lion or out of a bear.
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And so those scars to David, were Victory scars because those
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scars remind In the name of God's Victory and they became
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his, they became a testimony to him that no matter how big the
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enemy he could win. And God has this way of taking
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our scars and turn them into Victory scars and our limps like
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Jacob had and turning them into Victory scars as well.
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I was thinking it would be counterintuitive to think that
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leadership would be a attached to two limping.
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Like it's counterintuitive to think that through our
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weaknesses. We're going to lead better the
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world teaches just the opposite. Yes.
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I mean it was preparation per day that for later on and going
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through times of Brokenness which is kind of a the name of
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the umbrella that maybe all this falls into is a is a preparation
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that the Lord allows to be able to bring empathy to be able to
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bring humility to be able to bring perspective in what you're
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doing because you're not dealing with car engines, where you're
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just trying to fix it. You're dealing with people and
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it's all fluid and you never know.
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I mean, it's worse than a like Forrest Gump said, it's worse
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than a box of chocolates. You never know what you're going
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to get. So, Many times you're trying to
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help somebody and all of a sudden all this other stuff
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comes out. And and but the holy spirit is
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sufficient, I mean, God's grace is sufficient to be able to help
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us when we are shocked with what is unfolding in front of us, you
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know, in this episode comes what you and I are talking about
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right now comes on the heels of our, our last episode doubting
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wondering if we should be in the ministry or not or whether Sir,
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we should lead or not and it really does these blows these
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hardships. These difficulties, these this,
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these attacks, these, you know, I think of I think of within the
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church. There are people issues there
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are money issues, there are Vision issues, there's
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insecurities, there are fears and anxieties.
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And we're if we're not careful, we try to spend our whole life
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to get out from under them, instead of Embracing the this
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fact and David said, this in Psalm 34 Verse 18, the Lord is
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near to those who have a broken heart and save such as have a
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contrite spirit that The Nearness of the Lord comes
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through these broken situations. And here's the thing and I'm
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good, I've been guilty of this and I wonder if you have as
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well. I won't speak for you but I've
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absolutely been guilty. Of trying to get as far away
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from Brokenness and pain as I possibly can.
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And I've done it by getting trying to trying to get back.
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I've done it by going on vacation.
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I've done it by burying myself in a book.
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I've done it by silent treatment.
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I've done it in so many different fleshly ways.
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It's when the Lord's almost saying but Ed this is a gift I'm
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giving to you. That's going to draw you.
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Dear to me. And when you draw near to me I
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draw near to you have you found yourself trying to run away from
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Brokenness? Oh yes.
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Absolutely, absolutely. I mean I want to finish well,
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I've made a lot of mistakes in my life and I don't have much
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time to make any more mistakes and to recover from them.
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And so I want to finish well, and I asked the Lord, so often
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Lord just give me common sense. I need common sense because I
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don't want to make a foolish mistake and then I don't have
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much time to reap out out of it and so but you discover in those
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times of Brokenness and pain and and being way in over your head,
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Deuteronomy 33 says underneath are the Everlasting Arms and so
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how can we learn the depth of God's Comfort unless he allows
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deep trial and then he shows his Deeper comfort and restoration
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and and the grace and you get a heart knowledge of it and so
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those are necessary. I mean, any leader has to have
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times of Brokenness to be able to have a depth of ministry that
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were depth is super important because I think that the Jesus
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would teach us that the way up is down, if you want to be great
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in God's kingdom, you need to be the servant of all And when we
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speak of depth, you know, going down and let God doing deep deep
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work in us, I was reminded of another place that Hebrew word
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contrite is used in Isaiah, 57 in verse 15.
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It says for thus, says the high and lofty.
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One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy.
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I dwell in the high and holy place with him, who has a
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contrite in a humble spirit. And then he says, to revive the
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spirit. A humble and to revive the heart
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of the contrite ones. And and so the work of the Holy
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Spirit going, deep, that work of Revival comes from Brokenness.
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It comes from a depth directly acknowledging that this is what
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I'm doing, what? What I'm involved in, even my
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identity is in Christ to serve him well and not to hide, you
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know, one of the ways that we respond to Brokenness and and
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Limping. As we try to hide it, we try to
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downplay it, we try to deny it because we there's a sense and
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you guys listening in. Like I'm sure you felt this.
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Like if I show any sign of weakness then people won't
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follow me. If I show any sign of weakness
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then people won't trust me. I mean they're good they're good
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thoughts but not necessarily going to lead you.
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If you're not careful that they won't lead you to the right
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conclusion because of course people will follow you there.
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Broken two and Course people will trust you.
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I mean some won't but we're not going to we're not going to
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serve people by the some we're going to serve people by what's
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right before the Lord. We're going to have the fear of
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God, not the fear of man. And yes, let's go back to a
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moment. Let's go back.
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Bob in your thinking to Jacob for a second because
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commentators Bible teachers, they'll take the wrestling with
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God and draw out a lot of a lot of key expository.
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It's on them. But I want to suggest one to you
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and I want your thoughts on it. You haven't told you this yet.
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So I want you to think about this, they're the depth and the
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quality of life that was built into Jacob during that time of
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wrestling. I want you to consider this, it
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was in wrestling with God, that Jacob found his true identity
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because his name was changed. It was changed from supplanter
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to To being ruled by God and no longer trying to be enrolled
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under his own strength and doing his own thing.
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And although that was a part. If we would using New Covenant
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terms that would be a part of his flesh.
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The rest of his life, his identity came through the
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wrestling and also through the final, the final, you know, hip
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socket, God dealing with him and he's going to walk around with a
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limp the rest of his life. So his limp actually reminded
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him of It was a constant reminder of his true identity.
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What do you think about that? I believe that with all my heart
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because he was going to be facing some serious serious
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things in the future as he entered into the land, dealing
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with well, starting off dealing with Esau and, and then, coming
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into shechem with what happened with his daughter Dinah, and
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then everybody's against me, you know, about and how and then the
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the loss of Rachel and then the loss of Joseph and and all the
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rest of it. And so, all during that he had
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that limp and all they could do was fall back upon the fact.
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Like the only way I can win through this is to Prevail
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through prayer through intercession and we don't like
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to have Glimpse. We want to be looking very well
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and God brings things into our life, too.
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I guess their impact moments, where it changes, our
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perspective, for the rest of our life.
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In a good way. It's important to you guys
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listening in that. Alright, our identity, if we're
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looking at identity with relationship to Jacob or now,
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Israel is not in the limp and that's one of the mistakes I
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think is made that does not help leadership and servant is that
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some have taken the position of. Oh, I'm always going through it
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and they're attacking me again. And what their identity is in
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the limp. Their identity is in the plan
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that they're facing instead of no, no, no, that that's part of
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life. But your identity is to be ruled
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by God, your identity is to be that Mom at home, or to be that
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employee, or that leader that Ministry overseer, or that our
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identities, not in the limp, it's in who we are in Christ.
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But the limp reminds us and I've never, I've always had Ministry
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stuff happening in my life and you No normal everyday stuff.
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But when our son passed away 10 years ago that this, this was
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super challenging it transformed my life.
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The, the loss of my son was a transformative moment in time
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that has been ongoing for 10 years that intertwined with all
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these different Temptations and difficulties.
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And one of The Temptations was to identify with my loss because
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other people would then begin to identify, that's how it all
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started. I'm sad and it's hard, and it's
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challenging, and it's attacking my marriage, that attacking my
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kids, attacking my emotions, and I get back into church, and
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there's an identification. Now, that's been added to me.
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Now, I have a new limp and it's a pretty obvious limp.
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It's that's one thing about limps to guess if we would have
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taken some notes for this. We could have said, wow, you
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know, lips are pretty obvious to there, that's one of the things
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you notice about someone is the way they walk and if they walk
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with a limp and And in the Temptation though with something
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that's obvious is then to that becomes your identity and we do
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live in a culture that and whether we like it or not, that
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we're tempted to be the victim because it does, it does send,
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it does help us. I mean, it doesn't help.
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What am I trying to say it? Like, the victim mentality kind
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of caudill's that part of us that needs attention or wants
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attention, but the Lord's not in that.
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Yeah, we he's given us. The victory by the blood of
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Jesus Christ. And I don't want to pause just
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for a second and say I've seen this in pastures.
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Oh, my church, isn't this? And oh, I don't have these.
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Oh, I'm not. Yeah, and before, you know, it
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like that that's just something that God has allowed in your
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life to draw you near to him. So you can be more usable, not
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less. And so, the limp is in your
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identity, your identity is in the Victorious, work of the
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Cross and the blood that is forgiven, you of your sins and
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removed, your guilt and shame. And then it reminds me of that
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illustration of somebody stabbing a knife into your back.
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And then you want to make sure everybody sees the knife because
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how unjust, how unfair that was so wrong.
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Look what they did to me and the Lord wants to heal it, but you
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got to take the knife out, but to take the knife out, then
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nobody will see it. And so you want to keep the
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knife in and wonder why you're in such pain.
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But you're using the knife, as your identity, instead of the
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victory scar of the Lord healing it.
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And so sometimes we don't want to take the knife out because no
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one will know how badly we retreated.
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And that's never the testimony of God.
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It's how he comes in after those things, because look, what they
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did to the Lord Jesus. And yet he loved that father,
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forgive them for, they don't know what they do.
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And so, If any of you that are listening know that you have a
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knife in your back and you sense you're using it as your
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identity, you need to get alone with the Lord and say I need to
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take this out, don't ask him to remove it, you have to take a
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hold of the handle and pull it out through his strength so he
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can heal the wound. That's a real good point Bob
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because we, we can kind of collect our wounds.
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He's in a box and just just kind of.
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And then when you get together with other, guys, a, how are
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you? How's your, it's kind of like
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when you age and you're only talking about all your injuries,
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how's your, how's your angina? And how is your arthritis, and
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all the things that our bodies are falling apart.
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And I think the longevity and Ministry to is like, you know,
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how is this issue? And I was at issue and how is
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this issue and but there's another Edition, you know, as in
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learning our identity and I think this will be the final
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sub, you know, subtopic that we do on as we're getting close to
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time here, but I think of another thing that that leading
00:22:29
with a limp, really helps us with because the ministry and
00:22:34
serving and even places of leadership and oversight have a
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tendency to be co-opted and taken over by these desires for
00:22:45
a position, or a title, or some sort of Power Authority, a
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privilege, and even a sense of entitlement, and I have found
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over the years that the limping in my life.
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And I think, even when I stepped into the ministry here, back in
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1999, I there I am going back in 1999, Bob when I stepped into
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ministry here in Colorado. I was, I was stepping into a
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challenging situation with a taking over for another pass.
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That it had a bible study on this side of town and and I had
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a lot of issues to take care of in the wounds of this church
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started in the very first few months of my oversight, that was
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entrusted to me. And and, and they've collected
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over the years that they have the box would have.
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I'd have to have a storage unit. I think if we were looking to
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collect them but they because of those though, I would say that
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Brokenness and contrite necess and humility.
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A tea and a closeness to Christ. Has helped me deal with these
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Temptations of using positions wrongly or using a title wrong,
00:24:00
or using the power vested in me. That leading with the limp house
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helps me to to see that character and attitude are
00:24:12
forged in my life through these things.
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And yes, I'm I'm not there yet, but Paul would even say that.
00:24:20
He came to a place in his life which is unbelievable to me, but
00:24:23
he talked about boasting in his infirmities.
00:24:26
Yeah, it reminds me of bad tools that you can buy on the internet
00:24:32
that are super cheap but they haven't been forged and and how
00:24:36
they're forged is that steel that material has to be heated
00:24:41
up, red-hot and smashed. And that's and then it over and
00:24:47
over and over again. And that's what bill It's up a
00:24:50
high quality tool is that it's gone through forging in an
00:24:54
intense process especially those that are doing like torque and
00:25:00
you're relying upon that to have a certain pressure that has to
00:25:05
be put up on a bolt yet. You don't want crummy tool
00:25:10
because it will break under the pressure.
00:25:12
As we look at how God is fashioning and molding us and
00:25:16
forging us through these difficulties.
00:25:19
Super important for you guys listening in as we wind down
00:25:22
today that you get your life and your identity and your worth
00:25:27
from Christ, and not from Ministry.
00:25:30
And these little episodes along the way.
00:25:33
I think of things that are surrounding us right now, not
00:25:36
me, personally, although I can add my own personal things, but
00:25:39
I think of prodigal kids, I think of financial challenges.
00:25:43
I think of cultural pressures. I think for some denominational
00:25:48
pressures, I Think of the reality of inflation hitting
00:25:53
homes. And so that's bringing a lot of
00:25:55
stress into the home. So, moms and dads are fighting,
00:25:59
kids are caught in the middle. I think of the social media
00:26:02
issues that are upon us, I think of the culture, you know, the
00:26:06
the the approach that we take here, it has to be from a place
00:26:11
of humility and Brokenness, it has to be from a place of
00:26:15
knowing who we are in Christ, knowing the calling of God Upon
00:26:19
Our Lives. That we can move forward and I
00:26:22
guess the, the title here, I'm not even sure.
00:26:25
How many people stuck with us all the way to the end but if
00:26:28
you're limping that's normal and we maybe could have led with
00:26:31
that. But if you're limping right now
00:26:33
because you've been wounded serving God or wounded in life
00:26:37
because of the sinfulness of man or your own sinfulness, that is
00:26:41
normal and it actually can not can but it can if you allow it.
00:26:46
So it actually can work for your advantage if you allow it.
00:26:49
Any final thoughts on that. Bob, I think it's part of not my
00:26:53
will, but thine be done and it's been said that worship is that
00:27:03
the meaning of worship is to bow down or to kiss the feet and
00:27:08
really, it has to do with surrendering the will to the one
00:27:12
that you're worshiping. And you have to let the Lord
00:27:17
paint his own picture with you because You are his workmanship,
00:27:21
you're not your own workmanship, the so good.
00:27:24
Bob, we've come to the end of this episode.
00:27:27
I thank you guys for tuning in listening in Sharing.
00:27:32
We've seen an overwhelming response to this season.
00:27:35
I think we're tapping in to something at least.
00:27:37
This is what's happened mean really the podcast episodes are
00:27:40
just life. What we're going through here,
00:27:42
what we're facing and even the interesting content, the
00:27:45
interesting part of where Bob serving up North, I'm serving
00:27:49
down here. South in the Denver metro area
00:27:51
and so he's got a different context of what he's been
00:27:54
working through. I've got a context.
00:27:56
What I've been working through and leading with a limp is
00:27:58
normal. It is part of the process and
00:28:02
you can even see that. It's God is using it to draw.
00:28:05
You near to him. We are at the end of today's
00:28:09
episode, this is the lead to serve podcast, please leave a
00:28:12
review positive review, post it on your social media and helps
00:28:16
all the algorithms work out. So this pops up When people are
00:28:20
looking for leadership or servant type podcasts, you can
00:28:24
contact me. Directly, Ed Taylor dot.
00:28:27
O-- r-- g-- Ed Taylor dot, o--, r-- g--?
00:28:31
Or you can text me anytime at this number if you have an idea
00:28:35
for a podcast or you have a prayer request.
00:28:38
We you can text me at seven two zero, six zero, eight zero, zero
00:28:44
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00:28:47
to my website. Ed Taylor dot, o-- r-- g-- you
00:28:49
An email me through there as well, don't go to.com.
00:28:53
You'll if you do go to Ed Taylor.com, you'll see a
00:28:55
professional Santa Claus and that's not me.
00:29:00
It is another guy that is super successful as a Santa Claus but
00:29:06
my website is dot-org. Ed Taylor dot-org.
00:29:08
Until next time, bless you guys, thanks again.
00:29:10
For being with us Bob, it's been great until next time.
00:29:14
God bless you guys. Thank you for joining us.
00:29:17
For this episode of lead, to serve with Pastor Ed Taylor.
00:29:19
Taylor a leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora.
00:29:23
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00:29:25
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00:29:39
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