Building on the theme of challenges leaders are facing in the post-pandemic landscape, today's episode tackles the topic of pain and doubting. Pastor Ed and Pastor Bob talk about the reality of the pain associated with serving God's people. On top of the pain, there is the constant onslaught of doubts that flood the leaders mind. There is hope. Listen in.
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Welcome to today's broadcast of lead to serve a leadership
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podcast with Ed Taylor, welcome again to this episode of the
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lead to serve podcast. We're on episode number 5 of
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season. Number four, and season, number
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four is a special Seasons doing something that we haven't done
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before. And that Is I have Pastor Bob
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Clay camp with me and there are the both of us are talking
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through things. So Pastor Bob, welcome back,
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great. It's good to be here again.
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Been very, very good and all the episodes and we're bouncing
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things off. And remember, the lead to serve
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podcast, is a podcast that originates here at Calvary
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Church in Aurora, Colorado, my name is Ed Taylor and I've been
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pastoring here for 22 years. Moved out here, to plant the
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church and been used of God, greatly and lots of ups and
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downs. Lot of good, a lot of bad I
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would even say leading into the topic today.
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Some of the greatest joys of ever experienced have been in
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this church and some of the worst or probably the worst pain
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I've ever experienced have been from this church and that's
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where that's one of the benefits and the consequence of
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longevity. When you're in one place for a
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long time, you're going to live a lot of life together.
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And we have lived a lot of life here, my family, and I and we I
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have a passion for leadership for developing men and women for
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the ministry. I've always been that way.
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I've take to heart the necessity of raising up men and women that
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phrase raising up. I taken in this set, I take to
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heart what Paul had told Timothy when he talked about.
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Committing things to Faithful Men.
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Remember what he said in second Timothy 2?
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He said, you therefore my son be strong in the grace, that is in
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Christ, Jesus. And the things that you have
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heard from me among many witnesses.
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Commit, these to Faithful Men Who will be able to teach others
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also, and I've taken that serious him all my entirety of
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ministry. So I've been here 22 years, but
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I also served in my previous church at Calvary Chapel and
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Downey for eight years in various places.
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Doing lots of different things. What a, what a school, I didn't
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get to go to school. I didn't get to go to Seminary,
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I didn't get to go. Even to Bible College even
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though I do have a Bible college degree.
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Most of it was just a little class on Tuesday and Thursday
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nights at Downey that they end up turning into at the Calvary
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Chapel. I came from, they turned it into
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the Bible College and I don't know 15, 16 years later, they
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gave finally gave me credit and gave me a Bible call his degree.
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But I didn't get to go there. Most of my Ministry, although I
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would have, I'm a student studying comes easy for me.
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I love learning, I love reading, I love writing papers.
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I mean II would it's hard to even say that?
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But if you think about it pastors, right?
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At least one, or two term papers every week, their whole life.
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That's right. Based on what they're studying
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in the scriptures. And and so I didn't get to do
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that. But a lot of the ministry that
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I've learned, I've learned just like this, talking things out
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learning it Doing it. I in this has been very
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important because not everybody's gonna be a pastor,
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not, everybody's going to be a person in leadership or Beyond a
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church staff, but everybody's going to be a servant of God,
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everybody's going to follow the footsteps of Jesus.
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So these principles, we want to place them in a simple.
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I want to take them and place them simply that that is
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important to me. I want them so simple that they
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sound so simple, so that you can apply them in your context.
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Whether you're a senior, pastor of a million member Church, Or
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you are teaching a Sunday school class with one child in your
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marriage and your singleness. You got a new job, you're a
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supervisor, maybe you're a CEO, these are Universal.
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These are Universal principles that would have different
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applications. So that's what lead the service
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were in season. Number for all of the archives
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are available wherever you get your podcast.
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We might have replaced season 1 by now.
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But most of them should be available.
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And we decided because we didn't script this to really talk about
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the post pandemic. First just really how all these
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things and then we went to change and communicating and
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then all this sense of an adequacy.
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So, on this episode, we want to build on this an adequacy
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inability and talk about pain and doubting pain and doubting
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in the context of serving others.
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Because when you are bounced around, And and you are just in
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the mix and you are doing exactly what God called you to
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do. You are going to experience.
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Significant pain, mostly spiritual and emotional pain.
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Mostly on occasion. There may be physical pain, but
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you can even see Bob, by the way, did I welcome you already?
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Welcome. That's good to be here.
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I know you're already here, but welcome Bob for another episode,
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but we're just talking, like, it's all But thinking, even in
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some cases, Bob, the kind of pain that's been experienced in
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churches, emotional. And spiritual has turned into
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abuse, right? And the people are being abused,
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under the guise of Christianity, being abused by leadership and a
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lot of folks, there's trying to find out that the reason why
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I'll tell you the reason why men are sinful and many men get put
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into positions of leadership and women based on on their Charisma
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and all their our characteristics without
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character. Yeah.
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And I'll tell you pain and the they backing off on that topic.
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Abusive, for a moment. When you experience pain serving
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Jesus, it will be a revelation of your character.
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Absolutely. It's like bumping a cup that has
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a little dirt in the bottom. That's been sitting there for a
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while. It looks clear until you bump
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the cup and then you blame the bump for causing the dirt.
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Well, the dirt was already They're the bump just started
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out. It's really just stirred it up.
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I think it's important that you express.
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I believe it's important to you that it's expressed at the
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beginning here that you will be hurt in the church that you're
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in right now, maybe like the church you came from.
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And if you end up in another church because whenever you get
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people together, Hurting people, hurt people and if Ministry and
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the in your church is done correctly, then hurting people
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be attracted to the gospel, they'll be attracted to the
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Savior. Who's the Good Shepherd?
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And I would say, if you went to church, this sent this weekend
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or this Sunday and look around you by the countenance alone,
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just looking in people's eyes, body language posture, you will
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see hurting people. Mmm, And hurting people have a
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tendency to hurt people. If someone told you along the
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way that going to church would be almost like heaven and you
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won't be hurt like you were in the world and you won't be hurt.
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Like you are at work and you won't be hurt.
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Like you are in your dysfunctional family.
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They didn't tell you the truth, Jesus told us the truth.
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He said in this world you will suffer tribulation but be of
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good cheer. I have overcome the world and
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pain and doubting and LT are a part of the package of serving
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Jesus, to the capacity of the people that you serve will be to
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the capacity of the risk as we've talked about earlier,
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right? The risk of being hurt.
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What are your thoughts ball? Well the deepest hurt come from
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the people closest to you the Betrayal, the slander the half
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Stories being falsely charged that hurts worse than I'd rather
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suffer a broken arm because then it can heal and you can get on
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with it. But sometimes of the hurt from
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someone closest to you, is really hard to get over it and
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Satan uses it. To put you in jail, emotionally
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spiritually through, it starts with offense, bitterness
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resentment. And as you think about that
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person, or those people that caused the offense, you just
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even when they come to mind, your reaction tells you that.
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First of all, you're not over it.
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And second thing is, if you don't forgive them, as Christ
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has forgiven you, then you continually suffer it and it,
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and then there's this part of us, that Embellishes, even what
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has happened to make to almost become the victim mentality.
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And man, that's a trap that the enemy just uses us.
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I mean, I think Cain was in that trap and that's what it ended up
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killing Abel his brother. He got offended there when they
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offer their offerings and and it just he didn't, he didn't deal
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with it. He didn't follow the pattern of
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forgiveness as God forgave. Of Adam and Eve.
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He just it just created a monster in him and because we
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open up ourselves so much to people that we work with or were
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around. Maybe it's your spouse your
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children when they, when they turn it hurts, the deepest
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because you've become the most vulnerable with them.
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I really believe that you used a word that in that, that segment.
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That we must emphasize and that's the word continually
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because we do think of forgiveness being at a point in
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time, and indeed it is. But when there is then
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repetitive send I think of within the church when there's
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not repentance on the other side then there's a continual
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repetitive repetitive sin, a repetitive situation where you
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if you aren't if you are continually being offended then
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you must respond with continual forgiveness.
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Absolutely. And that's a real important
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process to think because if your counseling someone and you know
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we're not counseling but biblically discipling them.
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And you this topic comes up, you explain to just the way you did
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I can almost hear the response and why did forgive them?
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Well then why are you so bitter right now?
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Like if you did forgive them, why?
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And and one of the possibilities could be is they just haven't
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continually? They haven't lived and walked in
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forgiveness. Yeah, they forgave because they
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believe that's what God told me. To do.
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But then, after forgiveness, I can just be angry the rest of my
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life because I did forgive but I'm still really nasty angry and
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what you're describing is, how how they'd fallen for the Trap.
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Yeah. And they, and they end up
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staying in the jail cell, but there's no lock on it, but they
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choose not to walk out because if they walk out, then the
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person has gotten away with it. And so they want to see the
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person punished before they walk out, but Christ has been
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punished. because their sin was born by him, it just as much as
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he bore your sin and so it's it's a release, it's a giving up
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the right to hurt back and and Seeing them as God sees them
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because the offense was probably just the symptom going on in
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their life and you became the recipient of their symptom
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rather than the core issue, you know, you weren't the core
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issue. It was what was going on in
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their life was the core issue. So how does pain?
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How does being hurt in the church be experiencing betrayal
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in the church or in life? You know, again, we're looking
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at servanthood here. And as you serve the Lord, you
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need to be ready for pain the Bible.
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It is Phil everybody that's ever been used of God has suffered
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and our savior was torturously illegally beaten and crucified
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this. We serve a crucified Savior and
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that will experience his victory in the future.
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But right now we have an enemy that's alive and well.
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And how does pain now deal with or how do You've got you've
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already got kind of building on a theme.
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I've got lots of changes going on.
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I'm stepping into something, I don't feel adequate and then the
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I step in because I felt like God want me to do it.
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And then I got hurt really bad. I got people and calling me
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names. Slandering lying about me, or
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even far, worse things. How does, how does someone
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respond with anything other than quitting?
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Sometimes, you have to get a Alone with the Lord and get a
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pen and a paper, and your Bible and just talk it out with the
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Lord and just write out everything.
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I mean, I was, but I've been brought to these kinds of times
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and you just no-holds-barred, you just write down everything.
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You think, every emotion, you have every person and you just
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write it all out, get it out. And it's during those times,
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when it's like, The Lord says now is is that it?
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I mean, is that everything? You sure you have everything
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down. Well now there's a few other
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things and and and so you get it all out on paper and you look at
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it and it's like is this is this kind of the summation and you
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go? Yeah. and and when you see it
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out here because you've gotten that out from stirring, it up
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inside all the sudden you start going, you know, how does the
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Lord see this and I mean, I've processed this before, and I've
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watched it happen in my life and there was just a release saying,
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you know, I'm bigger than this. I really am bigger than this and
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I died for this, just like I died for you.
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And And, you know, when I, when I get alone with the Lord, I
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know. He talks to me and he uses my
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name for me, it is, he doesn't call me Bobby, you know, Robert,
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no, he just, you know, he talks to me in his kindness and he
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says, you know, I want you to go forward and this is this is a
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roadblock or this is a stop sticks that the Satanist put
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down to to flatten your tires and and you know what, will get
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you new tires and and let's just go on, you know, I know these
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things are true and these things happen, but I already knew about
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those things and you're more important to me than this.
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So let's just take this. And let's Forward.
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And here's what I want you to do, and it kind of reminds me of
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Elijah going down to Mount Sinai because he was really bummed on
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the whole thing, falling apart with Ahab and Jezebel and the
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lord gave him New Vision when he poured out everything.
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And then the lord gave me perspective and gave him New
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Vision. He says, here's what I want you
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to do. I want you to do these three
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things. I want you to go and and you
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know, step by step and so he did it.
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It and it got him back on track. I was thinking of a lie, Joe.
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As you're talking, I'm was also reminded of job that that New
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Perspective was painful to hear. He gave a real strong word to
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Elijah. And and one of the words, he
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gate was. What are you doing here?
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Yeah. Now I guess we could read into
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what the, what the tone of voice was but this is give it a
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neutral tone of those Elijah could say, but your god, what do
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you what do you mean? Why are you asking me this?
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This, you know what, I'm going through.
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You know, when I'm facing, you know what Jezebel did, you know
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her threats and the perspective that was given to lie.
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Joe's, very similar to given to job for different reasons, but
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it was job. I have experienced this whole
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thing from with I've watched this whole thing on violin,
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there you are and God says within exactly where were you,
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when everything was made. And I would say that there are
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times where we need someone, whether it's a time alone to get
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away and have a good, the Lord do it himself or someone in our
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life that can just look Us in the eye and say, are you?
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Do you hear yourself? Yeah.
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Do you or whatever it might be, it's going to be Spirit Led,
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right? But you have a trusted man or
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woman in your life to to talk to you.
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Talk you through or sometimes. We use the phrase talk you off
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the ledge. It's probably not the best
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illustration because I had that describes some real difficult
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scenarios but you do get to the ledge, right?
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You do get to the place where you ready, you're done.
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You, you already felt inadequate to begin with.
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You'd never expected to be hurt like this, or to be betrayed
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like this in the church, or for pastors in particular.
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They deal with this all day. Every day, all day every day,
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somebody's upset with them, for some reason.
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People think that they can just be really nasty with pastors
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more than they would be with their, but again, The spirit of
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nastiness now and our culture that it's even more.
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But for some reason and this is maybe I don't know if you've
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seen this is, if you can validate it, but I just for some
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reason, people think that they don't need any filters to just
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slam their password, like he's not even human anymore.
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I think social media has really fed into that and it's not the
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pastor is his wife now. His wife's not ever his kids.
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Yeah, I'm not whole genre of Pastor kids in such, it's far
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worse than it's ever been and it's not Not reflective of the
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grace of God or the Agape of God or the fruit of the spirit.
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And I just want to say if you're a pastor having to deal with all
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that drama. I'm sorry.
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It is hard and it and you're not the only one like so there you
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are sitting in just really licking your wounds right now
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and I'm going to listen to a podcast.
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And now we're just bringing your wounds up all over again.
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Well, for the sake just to let you know, you're not alone, it
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is not just you. There is there's just a spirit
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of nastiness that has overtaken so many and the The person that
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gets it, the most is the pastor or his wife, you know, his
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wife's doesn't do enough. She doesn't dress, right?
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She's not the right kind of mom if she's a homeschooling.
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Mom, she'd I'm in the public school.
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If not probably squeeze, I know, and look at your kids are acting
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like kids. It's I'm sorry, it's an added
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pain, because you want to serve the church, you want to give
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yourself in real pastoral Ministry and And there even is,
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we don't have, we're going to wind down here because we're
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almost done for this episode, but there's even a an added
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addition to pain as doubting and just all maybe this isn't, maybe
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this is not for me because if it was for me I wouldn't be going
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through all this. What do you think about that?
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Well, I what comes to mind is David Wright before King, Saul
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died, when he decided, you know, is there's nothing better for me
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than to go into the land of the Enemy.
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And I mean, it was only like maybe a week maybe two weeks at
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the most away from everything being over but he made a
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knee-jerk decision to to do it. And I mean, I mean he had been
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doing it for years. I mean you know all Saul King
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Saul ruined his 20s but you know, it's just eat.
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But God was even way ahead of him on that.
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God knew what it was going to happen.
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But it's written down. So we can learn as well.
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That will have those I'm kind of times.
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Yeah, the doubting is is a natural.
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Is a natural response but it's not a super natural response.
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So it is the human part. The human part is I'm
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inadequate, I'm not good enough, I am foolish, I'm not educated.
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Those are regular natural ways of responding and maybe there's
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some facts to it. May not be the truth.
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And there's a real distinction between facts and truth because
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facts they have to come to a conclusion.
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So that's how people can take the same facts and come to to
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different conclusions. Facts are facts but they may not
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necessarily be reflective of the truth.
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For example, give you a quick example.
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We're standing outside and a drop of water falls on our head.
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That's the fact and then I say, oh no, there's a storm coming.
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Well, that may not be the child. I don't like in you look around
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the blue skies are blue. There's not a cloud in the sky
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and and that water drop was actually just something from the
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roof of the building. You were standing under it.
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If so you have the right fact, but I didn't come to a truthful
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conclusion, right? And that's important for you as
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a follower of Christ and even as a servant of the Lord to know
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that you, you have to make a distinction between what our
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facts and what is truth because truth is isn't messed with by
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fax fax, will always see that? The truth will always support
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the facts that that that will be an Essence, but the facts won't
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always lead you to the truth. If you know what don't always
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lead people to the truth. You have to have Supernatural
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wisdom and and know that there is only one singular truth,
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right? Jesus said he's the way the
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truth and the life and but leading to the doubts that
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you're having the doubts are normal and their natural but
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they're not super natural and so you want to take those doubts
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you want to take those fears you want to take those anxieties and
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you want to get a loan with the Lord.
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You want to have a regular if you can't get along with the
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Lord. In any other way, make your car
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a sanctuary on the way to work make me.
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After I know for many many years, my schedule, I was
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working full-time, 12, 14 hours a day, had a lot of
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responsibility to church. So I responsibility at work is a
00:22:38
24 hour seven day a week job so I pagers and cell phones and it
00:22:42
was wild. So the place that I got my most
00:22:45
alone time was very late at night. 2:00 3:00 in the morning
00:22:49
that when my kids were all in bed and Marie was in bed and and
00:22:51
yes, I sacrificed a lot of sleep back then, but I think it got me
00:22:56
through a very challenging time and I know Oh, people listening
00:22:59
is like, well I want to sleep. I need my sleep, we'll find a
00:23:01
place. It doesn't matter.
00:23:02
It's not the only solution find a place so that you can be alone
00:23:06
with the Lord and really wrestle with your doubts.
00:23:09
But please don't Define Yourself by your doubts.
00:23:12
Please don't like I get really upset with you all doubting
00:23:14
Thomas. Well, I think there was more to
00:23:17
Thomas's life than doubting even though that's what's reserved
00:23:20
for us in the scriptures and take his doubting for a second
00:23:23
that maybe it wasn't so much doubting as it was inquisitive
00:23:27
or the kind of guy that just needs more information.
00:23:28
Mission before they make a decision.
00:23:30
I served with a guy like that. I can make a decision.
00:23:32
You tell me something. I'll make it right now.
00:23:34
He I need three confirmations and scriptures.
00:23:38
That's how he lived his life and it worked extremely well for
00:23:41
him. And most of the time, I can't
00:23:44
remember too many times I make. I'm trying to recollect one
00:23:48
where it didn't work for him. Yeah, you know me.
00:23:51
I'm like, okay, let's do it. Let's do it, let's do it.
00:23:54
You know, that has its own problems and it has its own
00:23:56
dangers, but there are People that just need a little extra
00:24:00
that that's how they're made in. And why would he's doubting
00:24:03
Thomas will? No, no, actually, he's not, he
00:24:06
just got, Jesus didn't calm doubting, you know, he didn't
00:24:09
tell him you're a horrible person.
00:24:12
That why do you doubt me? What's your problem?
00:24:15
Yeah, he understood him. Yes.
00:24:16
And he gave him more evidence. Yeah, because I mean think about
00:24:20
it you you put your whole life in Jesus as the Messiah and then
00:24:25
they crucified him. I mean, I think he was going
00:24:28
through such Angst such, you know.
00:24:31
And then to hear these stories, she going, you know, I'm just
00:24:34
unless I unless I put my hand into a site and I mean I don't I
00:24:38
think it's kind of reasonable that because he's a reasonable
00:24:41
guy. He's processing.
00:24:43
And you know what he did? Jesus did say is, oh you of
00:24:46
little faith or that was to Peter, why did you doubt?
00:24:49
And then he goes on later and Matthew, assuredly, I say to
00:24:52
you. If you have faith and do not
00:24:53
doubt, you won't, you will not only do what was done to the
00:24:56
Fig, but to this mountain. Doubt did surround him but he
00:25:01
didn't make that the identity of people.
00:25:03
Yeah, and right, I think that's in.
00:25:05
So if you're a doubter or a fearful person or you need more
00:25:08
information, that's how God made you.
00:25:11
However, if these natural things started getting in the way of
00:25:15
your ministry of serving then you really want to bring them to
00:25:20
Lord because God doesn't want you to quit in the traditional
00:25:24
sense where you just get up and walk out or like Pastor Bob
00:25:27
Sheridan. I'm just going to write my
00:25:28
Resignation I've never done that before but I'm ready to quit.
00:25:31
That's basically what he was describing and grateful, he
00:25:35
thankful he didn't do that, he processed the Holy Spirit, led
00:25:37
him it was a different way that he left the ministry there.
00:25:41
Because there are times when it's time to move on, there are
00:25:44
times when there's new seasons is we've talked about but
00:25:47
quitting for the sake of quitting and then blaming God
00:25:51
for it. I guess I could be another
00:25:52
podcast all alone. People do all kinds of things.
00:25:54
Well, God told me to do it but everything about it doesn't look
00:25:57
like God doesn't sound like God. It doesn't feel like God doesn't
00:26:00
has no scriptural support, but God, did you know?
00:26:03
Yeah, he told me to abandon my wife and kids and I'm just going
00:26:06
to know I'm gonna quit this marriage.
00:26:07
No, no, no, so, not that, don't quit.
00:26:11
Just let that to be the final word.
00:26:13
Don't quit steady on ask for help.
00:26:16
If someone's thinking this will be our final thoughts.
00:26:18
Bob, if somebody's thinking about quitting and they call you
00:26:21
up, what are you going to tell him?
00:26:24
What I'm going to tell him, is tell me about how you first
00:26:28
entered the ministry. What were your reasonings?
00:26:31
What was going on in your heart? Were you excited about it?
00:26:35
What were you expecting? I think most of my Ministry to
00:26:39
other pastors has been perspective, just helping them
00:26:43
rethink. Helping them go back and Just
00:26:49
being an outside voice, a safe place for them to download.
00:26:52
And then say, here's here's what I'm hearing you say, is this,
00:26:57
really how you're feeling? And when you hear it from me,
00:27:01
what are your thoughts just to be a sounding board rather than
00:27:06
saying what are you saying, you know, you can't do that.
00:27:08
You know, what kind of Christian are you and that's not helpful,
00:27:11
right? And but just to help them
00:27:14
process, the thoughts and, and to get through Do it and be a
00:27:19
safe place for them to download and without climbing all over
00:27:22
him. Yeah, well if that's part of
00:27:24
where your ministry is right now, ask for help and it could
00:27:28
be from us, it could be for someone that you know, no longer
00:27:32
hide it. Don't press it down.
00:27:34
It's not going to go away. It's only going to Fester.
00:27:36
It's only going to get harder for the next issue.
00:27:39
You, you weren't you weren't designed to go through this
00:27:42
alone. You weren't designed to carry
00:27:44
the weight of the church on your own shoulders.
00:27:46
You weren't designed to take all the Sure that we've been talking
00:27:50
about but there are there is help so ask for help and you can
00:27:55
email me at edited Taylor dot-org.
00:27:58
Ed Ed Taylor dot or you can email me where resourcing
00:28:01
church? So if you looking for resources
00:28:03
or help you can do that there's I also ride mon a my website at
00:28:08
Taylor dot-org. It has to be dot-org if you go
00:28:11
to.com. The Santa Claus owns that quite
00:28:14
literally a professional. Santa Claus is named ed Taylor.
00:28:18
And he has my domain name and Santa's not very nice.
00:28:21
He won't give it away. I mean, not like he's a mean
00:28:23
person. He just won't give it away.
00:28:25
We've asked, and I think he wanted six figures for it, so he
00:28:29
thinks he's a, he's a pretty important Santa and he is the
00:28:34
pandemic. I know that you're not listening
00:28:36
to this podcast for that, but the pandemic gave him either a
00:28:39
doing soon calls with Santa for like 200 bucks, a pop for
00:28:43
parents with their kids. Like so anyway, Santa's got a
00:28:46
great website but he has my name.
00:28:48
And my website is dot o-- r-- g-- Ed Taylor dot-org.
00:28:52
Pastor Bob has a website as well Bob at clay Camp.com.
00:28:56
He's a part of the team here at Calvary but he's also a part of
00:28:59
pointman Ministries where he goes around ministering to
00:29:01
churches traveling and doing assessments and it you can
00:29:06
invite him to come to your church and do discipleship in.
00:29:09
He does discipleship with us all the time.
00:29:12
He can do an assessment of your church.
00:29:13
He can come and take you out to lunch but you got to contact him
00:29:17
for it. We don't what we don't know.
00:29:18
No, you know the Holy Spirit could share with us but you can
00:29:20
too. So let us know on.
00:29:22
Give us feedback on the podcast. This is the lead to serve
00:29:25
podcast. We've just finished our fifth
00:29:28
episode in the season for and we'd love to hear from you.
00:29:31
Of course, leave us reviews and give us high ratings on your
00:29:34
podcast provider. That helps people find it post
00:29:37
on your social media. Get the word out.
00:29:39
Tell your pastor, tell your church about it, tell your
00:29:42
leaders about it. I want I have a desire to
00:29:44
support them. We've got a couple books.
00:29:47
I have five books in And but two in particular about Ministry,
00:29:51
one is Ordinary Servant for that basic introductory step into
00:29:55
serving God. And then there's another for
00:29:57
like like level of leadership and oversight.
00:30:00
It's called sure and steady, you can get it at our store Calvary
00:30:04
Co dot store or wherever you get books, you there it's available
00:30:09
and we would want to encourage you and people are using it
00:30:12
disciple. I how I disciple the team here
00:30:15
as a staff. Our team is going to be going
00:30:16
through it. Not too long from now.
00:30:18
We just and their topics just to talk about because I'll tell you
00:30:22
what. One of the greatest sources of
00:30:27
difficulty in Ministry is making assumptions.
00:30:32
And so we try to just take away as many assumptions as we can,
00:30:35
and say, this is what's expected.
00:30:38
And that way, we have a meeting of the minds.
00:30:39
So, thanks for joining us, season 4, until next time, the
00:30:43
Lord bless you, and courage, you and strengthen you in him, thank
00:30:49
you for joining us. For this episode of lead, to
00:30:51
serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary
00:30:54
Church in Aurora. Colorado, if you have a
00:30:57
leadership question, you want to hear answered on a future lead
00:31:00
to serve podcast, please email it to pass.
00:31:02
At Calvary Co dot church and if you like our podcast, Please
00:31:06
Subscribe rate or review us on iTunes and share us with your
00:31:10
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00:31:13
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00:31:16
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00:31:05
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00:31:11
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00:31:14
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