Today on Lead2Serve, Pastor Ed and Pastor Bob discuss the importance of building trust among those you serve. It's important that confidentiality is maintained where necessary, so that trust is built and ministry flows. It's also important to remember that ministry is a 24/7 role, not a 9 to 5 role where you clock in and clock out. Ministry happens all the time and we must be ready to serve when the Lord needs us.
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Calvary Church, presents lead to serve a leadership, podcast with
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Ed Taylor. Hey, welcome to another edition
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of the lead to serve podcast. My name is Ed Taylor.
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I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado,
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Calvary Chapel, and been here for 22 years, and such a
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blessing to serve, we moved out the five of us, my wife, and
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three kids to be a part of what God wanted to do and planting a
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church. And we have been a part of the
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planting and now through the years, going through the
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different seasons of ministry and Have a heart to talk about
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my experience. I have a hard to talk about What
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the Lord Has Done, what he's doing, how I'm still growing.
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So that, you know, when we do this podcast, I have in my mind,
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you sitting across the table from me, or what we do in our
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staff meetings, a lot of our staff and team meetings here are
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just talking through things and listening to one another and and
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offering our points of view and and you have an opportunity to
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do the same thing. You can offer your input by
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emailing me at Ed. Ed R dot org.
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Ed at Ed Taylor dot org or text me directly 7206 0800 12 and
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we're in the middle of or toward the end of season 3 on this
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podcast, and this season. We've taken a resource that we
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produced here at Calvary. It's a book that we call sure
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and steady and the subtitle is learning and growing in pastoral
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Ministry. And it's a culmination of the
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years of discipleship. Here, I'm a big whiteboard guy.
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So I like to stand and, you know, in a staff meeting and
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write down things on the Whiteboard and wipe that right
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down the topics and such. And finally, we just said, we
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need to put this together in one and strangely enough.
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It was covid. And the pandemic that brought a
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lot of old projects off the shelf.
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And say, let's finish this finish this.
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Let's finish this and we finished it together with one
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final meeting. With our pastor, Team where we
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talked about it, we edited it, we gave input, and this is the
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resource. So I encourage you to pick it
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up. If you think it would be
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helpful, you can use it personal devotions, small group studies,
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you can use the principles and apply them in your own personal
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context as your discipling others.
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And I know that these topics, some of them are like, man, I
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already know that already know that so then it's good to be
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reminded but other things, maybe you've never talked about them,
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you've just had a assumptions. Is that everyone knows and
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thinks the same way you do or as your disciple Ian and don't, you
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know, that such a level of frustration that you can start
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talking about these topics and then discuss them and dialogue
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at them through the word, that's kind of the model of this third
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season. And today, again, for this
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episode, we are in episode 3, 0 9, we have Pastor Bob Clay camp
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with us Pastor. Bob, welcome again, great.
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Good to be here again. I'm glad that you're here.
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We had a great conversation last time.
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Just talking Ministry together. And, you know, it's fun.
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I like doing that. I like learning.
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I like, because we were talking about your 40 Years of minute,
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40 Years, celebration, with Calvary of Phoenix, Calvary,
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Chapel North fee, North Phoenix. And and of course you were there
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for twenty twenty-nine years launched off to plant, a church
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in Exeter England. You were there for almost seven,
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seven years, and then you've been back with us here in Aurora
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for two years. Yep.
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And we're so grateful. You're Or here, even though
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you're gone a lot. Yeah.
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So why are you gone a lot talk about that?
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What's God having to do right now?
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Well, right now, my wife and I are involved with coming
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alongside other pastors and wives and encouraging them.
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Assisting them in whatever way may be needed, whether it's to
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help set up a transition plan for the future, or to do maybe
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an assessment of the church from top to bottom, or just to fill
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in and give them a break. Because there's no one right
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now. That's really ready to take the
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services. Sometimes it's just to work out,
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you know, how do I deal with this?
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Just practical everyday things and so it's the calling is just
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use our ministerial experience to just encourage and be a safe
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place for them to unload, download or whatever and just to
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pray with them and and system. You're a pastor to pastors.
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Yeah. And it's a really great ministry
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and he can serve your church if you On to get in contact with
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them. Just call us here at the church
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30 3628. 7200. Ask for Pastor Bob or you can
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email him at Bob. See at Calvary Co dot Church.
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Bob, see the letter c at Calvary Co church and connect with him.
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He, you know, according to a schedule and how it all works
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out, he can come out and encourage.
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You could fill the pulpit for you if you're a pastor listening
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in. He can do discipleship, he can
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teach at a leaders Gathering, he can do them, you just got back
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from Arizona. You guys, did you guys do a
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marriage thing in Arizona? My wife did a women's retreat
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that we have about two weeks before that.
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So in their latter years, one of the prayers that Pastor Bob
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bashara with me and one of the words that God gave them is that
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his latter years would be more fruitful than his earlier years,
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is that coming to pass looks like it.
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And then you know the little addendum was don't figure.
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Figure it out, just walk by faith.
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Yeah, so we're going to go right into the format that we've been
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whole, we've been using in season 3 and Pastor Bob.
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And I were going to be talking through these topics.
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The first topic is confidentiality and having the
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confidence of others, and here's the, the subtitle
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confidentiality is an essential component of a pastor or a
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servant trustworthiness in Ministry.
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And so a pastor or spiritual leader understands that Things
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in confidence is essential when you breach confidentiality you
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lose that important place of trust and Authority in someone's
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life. You must be true.
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You want to be a better servant and leader.
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Listen, you must be trustworthy with the information that you
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see here and with what people share with you, confidentiality
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speaks of the confidence that someone has put in you to trust
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you with their life and when we respond by Holding things in
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confidence, it protects the rights and the Dignity of
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others. The opposite gossip destroys
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people, including you and and we talked about Bob confidentiality
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or trust being the currency of ministry.
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Yes where you know somebody comes right now if somebody
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calls somebody comes to the church right now they have a
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they have a bucket I guess if you will of trust they already
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have some level of trust that otherwise they wouldn't be
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looking for us to help them. So they come to the property,
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they have expectations, they have trust.
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What are some ways that you have found that you can build trust
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in a person that comes to you for help?
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I think that excuse me, trust is it's built slowly.
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Trust is built line by line and trust is built by listening more
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than you talk. And by asking questions to let
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them. And let them know that you
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actually heard what they were saying.
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I think that goes a long ways because if you're just the Bible
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answer, man, then people go away and have a sense that you never
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really heard them at all. Didn't hear their heart and
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answering back what, you know and saying here's what I heard
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you say. And it tell me if I'm on the
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right track then I think that's big in building trust I think
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when Just breaks down, sometimes, you can't even recoup
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after that. And this is something that we
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have to really pay attention to, because it's inexcusable sin in
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our lives. We think that?
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Well, if I talked to Bob about something that I really
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shouldn't be talking to him about, but he is a pastor and we
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start processing this and I'm like, well Bob I if I do share
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something with you, it might be better to be general, not give
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any names, not give any situation that is going to be
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identical. Definable or you know I talk
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with you and then you go back and circle around and said well
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maybe I can help so and so but I really never asked for you to
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help them and you go over around because you love him and indigo.
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How did you know? Well, you know and I were
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talking and now now we've got this mess of know.
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The relationship is with me and that brother or me and that
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sister my wife and I in that sister, perhaps it's ministering
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to them and I need to understand that my obligation is to Person
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that I'm serving over and above any type of counsel.
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I might need like breaking breaking confidence is super
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common in the church and it is extremely painful and if you've
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ever lost someone's trust, you know that it's extremely hard to
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get it back. If you ever do this, right?
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And and really, you're spreading the burden of forgiveness, when
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a person comes to you and tells you that this person here is is
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Is living in sin over here, and then you tell someone else that,
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you know, this is what's happening.
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And then they tell somebody else and all the sudden it goes
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around 2 5 10, 20 different people.
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And then the person who was initially living in, sin, comes
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to you and repents all of a sudden.
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You've spread the burden of forgiveness, all the way around,
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and you've just said a wildfire and it should be reflective, and
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this is important for you listening in like it should be
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reflected. If that that demonstrates a lack
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in your life that God's wanting to deal with it, I mean, I'm
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certain we've all made that mistake.
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So this isn't something that we're going to live a perfect
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life and we've all made this mistake.
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I have broke confidence before I have gossiped and it's painful,
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it's painful for the people, I've sinned against and it's
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painful for me as I deal with the consequences of my sin.
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And I think that the emphasis in discipleship here is that if you
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want to serve well you've got to be Us worthy and being
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trustworthy also means that you're worthy of trust that your
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behavior is such that someone can trust you and it ends with
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you. I think that one of the
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predominant sends in the body of Christ today, but also among us
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as spiritual leaders is Gossip. Yeah, and, and it's covered by
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the word. Hey, I've got a serious prayer
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request and it's more of imparting a juicy nugget rather
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than having Art to run a sea change.
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And when it comes to confidentiality, of course,
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there are a few things that we don't keep in confidence.
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We don't have this false vow of silence, like those in the
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man-made Roman Catholicism. You know, how a priest has to
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have this vow of silence or whatever it is.
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Do you know what the vowel is? Where you, the priest will not
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tell anybody, like, we don't have that that and I don't know
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that that's biblical because if there's any harm to a child or
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any sus, Any suspicion of abuse or any confession of a crime or
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like we're not going to keep that to ourselves.
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We in here in Colorado, like many states were mandatory
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reporters, but even if we weren't mandatory reporters, I
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believe God is a mandatory reporter and although the Bible
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does instruct that love covers sin, the instruction is not
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covering it to the point where we're making excuses and
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approving of sin, right? It's working out through things
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and Is like the lubricant of our friction, not not covering those
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things. And of course, another another
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thing that that we say here with confidentiality is that you
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never hide anything from your spouse, no, of course, you got
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to be careful what you share with your spouse.
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But there's no hiding ever, any instruction of hiding things
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from your spouse and, you know, so you don't come home, I go
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out, I can't tell you honey because it's confidential and
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then you just give the, you give the enemy, all this room to
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divide you in your marriage because you're one, yeah, I'm
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confident. In charity.
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So important like Luke chapter 12.
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It says in verse 2, there is nothing covered that will not be
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revealed nor hidden that will not be known.
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So whatever you spoken in the dark will be heard in the light
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and what you spoken in the ear, in the inner rooms of would be
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proclaimed on the housetops and you know, Jesus is giving that
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instruction of their that the truth will come out and let the
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if you walk in the truth things that are covered, they'll be
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revealed thing. That are hidden, they'll be
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known but we're not to break someone's confidentiality and
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their trust or Proverbs 11 13, a talebearer revealeth Secrets,
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but he who is of a faithful Spirit conceals a matter.
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And then I already mentioned that in Proverbs 18, 19, a
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brother offended is harder to win than a strong City.
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And contentions are like the bars of a castle.
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And and so as you're serving confidentiality is of utmost
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importance, there's just no way around it.
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This is the currency and I know it's a hard word to use to
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describe but like if you look at it as currency that you're
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depositing you're depositing trust, you're depositing trust
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because unfortunately there may be a time where you have to make
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it to withdrawal or you make a withdrawal by a mistake and only
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the bridge of the depth of trust is going to help you get through
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that mistake. It's going to help smooth the
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waters. It's going to keep relationships
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because relationships as you were mentioning in Last podcast
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in our last episode, you know, the, the relationships that we
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have the Pastoral Ministry is of utmost importance, and it is
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relational. And the, there aren't different
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rules for us because we're pastors than we are for anywhere
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else. Where sheep first?
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Yeah, it's right sheep among sheep.
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Sheep among sheep. Let's go to the next one.
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The next one we want to share is that Ministry is a 24/7
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commitment. Astrea's a 24/7 commitment, a
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pastor, a spiritual leader, is a pastor or spiritual leader, 24
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hours a day 7 days a week. This is another one that's
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misunderstood. We talked on a previous episode
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about counting the cost and the cost that's necessary to make a
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commitment to serve. And so, when the 24/7 commitment
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comes, it's often a challenge because this commitment means
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that a pastor or spiritual leader is ready to serve.
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Whenever Ministry needs are present and this is the key that
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we really want. Its Ministry is not a
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nine-to-five job, it is not like any, I mean, actually it's not a
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job at all. It's God's call upon your life
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and you can't schedule when Paine enters into a family's
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life. You can't clock out and no one,
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no longer care. You can't relegate people's
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issues. I mean, just a few years ago, we
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all were awakened in the middle of the night because of the
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theater shooting that was right up the street.
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Meet you. We aren't going to answer the
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phone ago. I'm sorry, my day doesn't begin
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until 8:00 and I know it's a crisis.
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It's the biggest crisis, our city has seen since Columbine
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but we're well I'll be there soon enough.
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Nope, we put a hat on, put some clothes on, and get to where the
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need is, and some seasons of pastoral Ministry.
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Some seasoned a Ministry or more challenging than others, more
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demanding but there are also times when Is restful times, but
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we are always a pastor everywhere anywhere.
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And, and then we clarify that, if you're a clock watcher, then
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pastoral Ministry commitment with leader.
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Spiritual leadership is just not for you.
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If you're a clock-watcher, you know, if that's if it's all
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about the bare minimum and it's unfortunate, but I have served
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with men that they just tried to put in the bare minimum.
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Yeah. And it's It's self-focus more
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than others oriented. And it's like, well, you know,
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my time is my time and and I'll help people.
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And you think on, and I've worked real hard and I deserve a
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break here, and there's other people that can take care of it
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and it still ends up being more self-focused, a pastor is like a
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doctor on call at all times and the family needs to understand
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it. There are it's not a simple.
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Okay, I'll spend two hours. With you, and then, two hours
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with you and two hours with you. It is, is sometimes it's all in
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for three days and then you have to really communicate with your
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family. That, you know, there's going to
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be seasons and, you know, our balance has to do with Seasons,
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not ours. And so you have to learn to be
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flexible. This is what Ministries all
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about. For those that never worked 24/7
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job. It's hard to adjust to God put
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me into a business early on the ambulance business that was
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24/7. My hours were always all over
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the place. I didn't have any control over
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it. If my relief, if the person that
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was supposed to come in and relieve, me didn't come in.
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I worked another shift. Had to make a phone call.
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I worked all the holidays because that's where the
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overtime was. So we learned as a family, we
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could celebrate the holiday later.
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It doesn't have to be traditional and we can do
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something extra and to make up for the fact that dad's not
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here. A few hours and and I find
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Ministry to be very similar where it's not a nine-to-five
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job. It's not when even when we leave
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the property we don't stop being a servant.
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We're not we're still a servant at Safeway we're the body of
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Christ but it when you when you step in to take a position of
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leadership or even wanting to grow in being faithful in
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serving Jesus, you have to deal with this mentality that your
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time is not your time. It you You have been bought with
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a price and that's the, the blood of Jesus Christ, and he's
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worthy of all that we give to him.
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However, 24/7 doesn't mean that you're away 24 hours a day 7
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days, a week. It doesn't mean that you need to
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be. I mean, we've had, you know,
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been here 22 years and we've had, I don't know, maybe I can
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count four or five times where there's been super super heavy
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stuff that required us all to be somewhere midnight or overnight
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or stay late or But but it is demanding, and I think that's an
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important word. If you think of demanding,
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what's another word that you could think of Bob, that would
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reflect 24/7. That could help somebody grasp
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that. Well, I think Paul said to be
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instant in season and out of season or you're just ready.
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And I also think of what Jesus said, where the servant comes in
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from the field and prepares for his master and they're just I
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say, you know, we're on profitable servants, we've done
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what that witch was at the least and just keeping the mindset
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that You know, we were on our way to hell.
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Right? And he chased us down, right?
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And he brought us into the family and we are forever
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indebted to him. It's so good.
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I we also included. If you're the type of person
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that likes to learn the system and offer to God and your
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church, the least amount of effort or the bare minimum then
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Ministries, not for you. Or I would even say you could
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even say Ministries not for you yet.
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It that like the Lord's going to have to work out of you, this
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life. You know, meant I think the
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thing that I've learned the most and I'm still learning is
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Ministry and servanthood is self-sacrifice.
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Yes it's not just Jesus saying if you want to follow me die to
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yourself, okay. Lord ideas of I'll give up my
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drugs I'll give I'll give up a few things to follow you but
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then you begin to live with him and you begin to serve him even
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in a serving his church and you find out.
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Wow, there is still so much meat, so much of me that needs
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to Die daily and if I learn this System if Iris and really
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learning the system is a fancy way of just saying, you know,
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like because something changes. There is something that I've
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seen change where a man is serving.
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The lord Faithfully volunteering working full-time, you know, in
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the world even over time coming and serving Faithfully in the
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church. And then we recognize that and
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say, you know what, brother we I think the Lord has entrusted us
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resources. How about you take those 40
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hours that you're giving at your job and use them here?
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We will pay you, the Lord has given us Abundant Blessings.
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We will pay you those 40 hours and then before, you know, it
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they're they're they're doing less than 40 hours.
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They're not even doing the extra and something happens, when
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money is exchanged, if you don't guard your heart.
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Well yeah. And your look for the easy way.
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I mean that's just your flesh. Yeah, your flesh doesn't like to
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be crucified and I think that that's that really is the
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emphasis of What today's episode is all about God is calling you
00:21:55
to die to yourself and that's going to make you and me a more
00:21:58
effective servant, a more effective leader because
00:22:02
Ministry is labor, a labor of love.
00:22:06
Even though it's tremendously rewarding, it's also
00:22:08
tremendously demanding and you think of Jesus Jesus had a time
00:22:12
to sleep. Remember in Mark chapter 4 but
00:22:14
then he was woken up so that he could deal with the storm.
00:22:18
I thought that was so good. He had he was sleeping and then
00:22:21
there was an urgent need At least on the minds of the
00:22:23
disciples and he was woken up and I think that you find him
00:22:29
Jesus would often try to get a loan to have some time and he
00:22:32
would be interrupted. These are what has been taught
00:22:35
to us Divine interruptions? God using even things.
00:22:39
That we may not even considered Divine interruptions.
00:22:42
They can be a blessed by God as we serve as unto the Lord.
00:22:48
So amen, this brings us to the end of today's episode.
00:22:51
I'm so glad that you have Joined us, be sure to leave a positive
00:22:54
review. If it's negative, email.
00:22:56
Me, personally, I'll take care of that.
00:22:58
If there's any feedback, you have any questions even topics
00:23:02
that you would want us to answer.
00:23:04
You want me to answer in any future guests.
00:23:07
Please do thank you again, Bob for being here with the last
00:23:10
couple episodes solutely. Yeah, that's great.
00:23:12
If you want Bob to come out, you want him to serve.
00:23:15
Maybe you need the pulpit, Phil just call the church here, 30
00:23:18
3628 7200, or email him directly.
00:23:22
Bob see, the letter c is name is.
00:23:24
Bob Clay camp at Calvary Co dot church.
00:23:28
He serving with pointman Ministries.
00:23:29
Which again, is another great podcast to subscribe to PO ime.
00:23:34
N. Pastor Bill Holdridge covers a
00:23:38
lot of great topics with a lot of great different pastors for
00:23:42
us here. Email, me directly.
00:23:44
If you have any feedback, Ed, Ed, Ed Taylor dot org or text me
00:23:47
7206 0800 one. You can text me directly on that
00:23:53
but until then, so glad you joined us.
00:23:56
So glad that this podcast is a small part of what the huge work
00:24:00
that God is doing in your life. Stay strong.
00:24:03
Keep your eyes on the Lord until next time, God bless you.
00:24:05
God bless, thank you, for joining us.
00:24:08
For this episode of lead, to serve with Pastor Ed, Taylor, a
00:24:11
leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora.
00:24:14
Colorado, if you have a leadership question, you want to
00:24:17
hear answered on a future lead to serve podcast, please email
00:24:20
it to Pastor Ed at Mauricio dot church and if you like our
00:24:24
podcast, Please Subscribe rate or review us on iTunes and share
00:24:28
us with your friends on social media.
00:24:30
Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right
00:24:33
here on the lead to serve podcast.
00:24:22
Mauricio dot church and if you like our podcast, Please
00:24:25
Subscribe rate or review us on iTunes and share us with your
00:24:28
friends on social media. Thanks again for joining us and
00:24:32
we'll see you next time right here on the lead to serve
00:24:34
podcast.
