How Should we Handle Spiritual Warfare?

[00:00:02] Welcome to the When She Leads podcast with Brenda Leavenworth.

[00:00:06] Tune in as Brenda and her team explore thought-provoking topics designed especially for women in ministry.

[00:00:12] We're delighted to have you here today.

[00:00:16] Well, we have Kelly Bell and Rosemary Katie here today. Hi, girls.

[00:00:22] Hi. Hi there.

[00:00:23] Always a pleasure. So we have another light topic today.

[00:00:27] Light? Yeah, it's light. Light topic.

[00:00:30] How should we handle spiritual warfare? And Kelly and Rosemary are going to give you all the answers.

[00:00:35] Yeah.

[00:00:36] And I will moderate.

[00:00:37] Yeah, right. This light topic.

[00:00:39] Yeah, I'll just moderate. Spiritual warfare, you know, it just comes in all shapes and sizes.

[00:00:44] It has different forms. We've experienced it in marriage, actually any relationship, really.

[00:00:52] Our health, stress, anxiety.

[00:00:55] I don't know about you guys, but I've had torment in my mind when I'm about to go do something.

[00:01:00] Like, I'm just like, feel like I'm tormented all night. Fear, doubt, distractions, conflict.

[00:01:06] The enemy whispering to me, quit quite often. Like, that's it. You're done.

[00:01:11] You know, forget this. Quit my marriage. Quit work. Quit ministry.

[00:01:16] Run.

[00:01:16] Just run.

[00:01:17] Yeah.

[00:01:24] All kinds of things that the enemy uses because all the enemy has to do is get us to quit.

[00:01:30] And that's the goal, right? Just knocking people out of ministry.

[00:01:34] I think I heard a statistic that said that by the time pastors are 60, 9 out of 10 of them have left the ministry.

[00:01:43] Which is quite shocking if you think about it.

[00:01:47] Right.

[00:01:47] But he really loves it. The enemy really loves it when Christians walk away from Christ.

[00:01:53] Right.

[00:01:53] Not just the ministry.

[00:01:54] Right. I was going to say all people. Yeah.

[00:01:57] So if you think about all of what's going on of late, all the dismantling and everything that's going on, God's not...

[00:02:05] I don't think it's that God's scared of our questions or our doubts or...

[00:02:10] But I think we need to lean into the subject and think about, okay, how can we lean in and search for answers in how are we to handle spiritual warfare?

[00:02:23] Yeah.

[00:02:24] And so we would ask the question, why do we need to discuss this today?

[00:02:30] Okay. And Jesus promised in John 16, 33, that in this world we will have trouble.

[00:02:37] He said, I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace.

[00:02:42] In the world you will have trouble and suffering.

[00:02:44] But take courage, he says.

[00:02:46] I have conquered the world.

[00:02:49] So we have to have perspective.

[00:02:51] We have to go about our lives knowing that this is what is to be expected.

[00:02:56] This is normal.

[00:02:57] I think that perspective helps us when we struggle so that we don't just give up and say, this is not what I thought walking with Jesus would be like.

[00:03:08] And another thing, another reason that this is important is it gives us a proper biblical view.

[00:03:16] It gives us a biblical worldview of how we should go about our lives.

[00:03:21] It helps us see our own personal experiences, our daily lives in a biblical lens.

[00:03:28] I think that's so important that we see things the way the Bible explains them.

[00:03:34] We know that the spiritual realm is real.

[00:03:36] And in a lot of ways it's more real than our physical world.

[00:03:39] It's everlasting.

[00:03:41] And this one won't last.

[00:03:42] And we have to have an understanding in the spiritual realm that there's God and his angels and there's demons working with the devil.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:52] I think, I mean, if you look at Ephesians 6, 12, and then like 2 Corinthians 10, 3 through 5, it really gives us a good definition of what warfare is.

[00:04:03] And Rosemary is so true because it affects all of us all the time.

[00:04:06] And we just like, I think there's two categories and we need to be in the middle.

[00:04:10] There's the, I'm going to deny it's happening and I'm not going to talk about it and it's not real.

[00:04:15] Or I'm going to look for warfare and the demons under every rock, you know, and almost follow that in order to fight, which I don't think we're called to do.

[00:04:24] So I think that balance of like Brenda, all those things you said, not being ignorant of his devices, scripture tells us,

[00:04:32] and acknowledging that, but yet understanding that greater is he who's in us and he's who's in the world.

[00:04:37] And we have been given certain armor and talk about that and how to fight it.

[00:04:46] We're supposed to stand and fight, but yet our whole, I read this yesterday, it really ministered to me that our life is more than just, let's just stand and fight.

[00:04:55] We're supposed to be following Jesus.

[00:04:57] So it's a defensive thing, but yet we're given the, you know, in Ephesians that talks about the armor, the gospel of peace, the shoes and the gospel of peace to continue on, to follow Christ, to keep running and to stand on the gospel and to follow him close, love our enemies, you know, love our communities, stuff like that.

[00:05:17] And yes, we're fighting at the same time, but it's more than just standing at defense.

[00:05:22] It's moving forward with our shoes of peace and the gospel of peace.

[00:05:27] So I don't know.

[00:05:28] I kind of liked what got questions.

[00:05:32] I was kind of just reading some things and I was thinking, well, you know, we should define spiritual warfare because what is it?

[00:05:40] What isn't it?

[00:05:41] And they described it as that it refers to the battle in the spiritual realm between God's kingdom and Satan's kingdom.

[00:05:49] And it refers to the conflict between light and darkness, good and evil for a Christian.

[00:05:55] It is the fight against principalities, rulers of darkness, powers, spiritual wickedness in high places.

[00:06:01] So you think through that and you think, well, not everything is spiritual warfare.

[00:06:07] You know, we have consequences of skin, of sin, skin, sin.

[00:06:11] And people will say like, oh, you know, it's spiritual warfare.

[00:06:16] And that's not true.

[00:06:17] And I loved this quote that I read.

[00:06:19] It said, there are two primary errors when it comes to spiritual warfare, overemphasis or an under emphasis.

[00:06:25] Yeah, that's what I meant.

[00:06:26] They say it better than I do.

[00:06:27] Some blame every sin, every conflict, every problem on demons that need to be cast out.

[00:06:35] Others completely ignore the spiritual realm and the fact that the Bible tells us that our battle is against spiritual powers.

[00:06:42] The key to successful spiritual warfare is finding the biblical balance.

[00:06:47] And I thought, wow, that is it right there, right?

[00:06:50] Just finding that biblical balance of what do we call spiritual warfare?

[00:06:55] We can't, not every trial is spiritual warfare, but there are some very practical ways that the enemy has attacked us.

[00:07:06] And I know, Rosemary, you've said, you've brought up that you've had experiences where just in like every day where God will, or God, Satan will use something against us.

[00:07:17] And it's usually when we're going to teach or when we're going to speak somewhere or just even in everyday life, even if he can get us distracted from the little things.

[00:07:29] So Rosemary, tell me about that a little bit.

[00:07:31] I think we should talk about Ephesians 6.

[00:07:34] I love what Kelly brought up already.

[00:07:37] It says that our job is to stand, that there's this enemy.

[00:07:44] And in verse 13, it says that you may be able to stand your ground.

[00:07:53] And after you have done everything to stand.

[00:07:56] So I love that, that it is a picture of us being active, but our job is to stand and to stand upon the rock, to stand upon Christ, make sure that we're actively seeking him.

[00:08:08] And none of this can be done in our power.

[00:08:10] So I think that's just so important.

[00:08:12] And we have to know that this fight has already been won by Christ.

[00:08:19] So I think that's something important to point out is that this is a defeated enemy, but he's here.

[00:08:25] He's been hurled out of heaven.

[00:08:27] He's on the earth active and he's trying to destroy as much as he can of God's kingdom and God's people and the work of God here on earth.

[00:08:38] But here in Ephesians 6, it starts out in verse 12 and it talks about, or in verse 10, and then it goes on to talk about verse 12.

[00:08:50] Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm.

[00:09:03] So I always have to remember, and I think all of us do, who our enemy is.

[00:09:07] I like to say, remember, your enemy is not your husband and it's not your children and it's not the people who are in your congregation or it's not the traffic and the drivers.

[00:09:19] It's not the weather that ruined your day or something like that, that our enemy is spiritual.

[00:09:26] Yeah, that's good.

[00:09:27] And to what you said, I mean, in scripture, we're promised that we're going to have trials, tribulations, you know, hardships.

[00:09:34] And to me, that is the, shows you the difference between spiritual warfare, you know, and I know that he uses our mind and our mental space as his battlefield, right?

[00:09:44] And you guys have kind of touched on that.

[00:09:47] He makes us doubt.

[00:09:49] He makes us doubt God.

[00:09:51] He makes us doubt his word.

[00:09:53] He makes us doubt his promises, God's goodness, his faithfulness.

[00:09:58] He gets us, he can bring discouragement or denial.

[00:10:01] The enemy, I think, hates integrity.

[00:10:03] So if he can attack you there, he uses false teachers to get us confused when we don't know the word of God.

[00:10:12] He tries to tell us God's not real.

[00:10:15] He uses our, he can use our business, our entertaining or anything to distract us because I think distraction is a big tool of his, like to do what you said, get us away from Christ.

[00:10:29] He can make us start to help us think that we are the king of our own lives.

[00:10:35] You got this.

[00:10:36] We're, you know, he just can exploit our suffering to make us question God's care for us.

[00:10:41] You know, God, this wouldn't be happening to me if you really loved me.

[00:10:46] I just feel like he uses that mind and our heart, you know, to, and just to divide, divide our own hearts, to divide relationships, to divide churches.

[00:10:56] I mean, anything to cause division and strife, he likes.

[00:11:03] Yes, he was there in the garden.

[00:11:05] Yeah.

[00:11:06] Genesis 3.

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:07] We see him almost right away.

[00:11:09] Yeah.

[00:11:09] So creation happens.

[00:11:11] Adam and Eve are there and I'm not sure exactly when, but we know that he shows up right there in chapter 3.

[00:11:17] He tempts us to disobey just as he did with Adam and Eve.

[00:11:22] And he tempts not to trust God, not to trust his word.

[00:11:25] And that's just the first action he does in the Bible.

[00:11:28] That's amazing too.

[00:11:30] 1 Peter 5.8 says, be sober minded, be watchful.

[00:11:33] Your adversary, the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

[00:11:38] I don't think he sleeps.

[00:11:39] He's ferocious.

[00:11:40] Yeah.

[00:11:41] And we often tend to think that he's only attacking us in our weaknesses.

[00:11:46] And I read, which I'll refer to the book later, but Warren Wiersbe wrote a book on what to wear to the war, studies from Ephesians 6.

[00:11:55] And I just thought it was so interesting because he said, have you ever noticed that when the great men and women of the Bible sinned, they always seem to fall in the areas of the greatest strength.

[00:12:06] Abraham's greatest strength was his faith.

[00:12:08] And that's where he failed.

[00:12:09] He lied about his wife, Moses's greatest strength.

[00:12:12] He was the meekest man on earth, yet he lost his temper and smote the rock.

[00:12:16] Likewise, Peter failed in his greatest area of strength, his courage.

[00:12:21] What was David's greatest strength?

[00:12:23] His integrity.

[00:12:24] He was a man after God's own heart, and that's where he failed.

[00:12:28] And so we look at that, and sometimes we think, oh, we're only going to protect our weaknesses, but we need to protect every single part of us and our heart and never let pride come in with our strength.

[00:12:40] So as soon as we say we would never fall like that way, we would never do that, you know that's where it happens.

[00:12:46] So he attacks anywhere, which is why when we read over that armor, every part of it, we need to recognize that we need and stay protected and stay armed and not relax in that sense.

[00:13:03] Just always be aware of that and not let him have any foothold or any influence.

[00:13:09] Yes, I think it says, 1 Corinthians 10, take heed lest you fall.

[00:13:14] We need to keep humble.

[00:13:16] We need to remember who we are.

[00:13:18] We need to remember that this is all by the grace of God, and we just need to keep our perspective.

[00:13:24] Right.

[00:13:25] And, you know, James said in 4, 7 through 8, submit to God and he will flee from us.

[00:13:30] And so really, that's our answer.

[00:13:32] So when we talk about how to handle warfare, even how we handle trials, like it's submitting to God, surrendering, and the enemy will flee from us.

[00:13:42] And so that's an amazing power that we have because it's the name of Jesus.

[00:13:47] It's him fighting for us.

[00:13:50] God fights for us.

[00:13:52] We need only to be still, it says in Exodus, as they're about to cross the Red Sea.

[00:13:57] And we have to keep that perspective that it's not me stomping on the head of the devil.

[00:14:03] It's not the strength of my prayers, the length or the passion of my prayer, but it's going to be God doing this for us.

[00:14:11] And so I love that.

[00:14:13] And I feel like what Ephesians says, to stand there is my part.

[00:14:18] So the wind can blow, the storm can rage, and it can try to knock me down.

[00:14:24] But I need to stand there.

[00:14:26] Yeah.

[00:14:27] In Ephesians, in the Lord, it says a few times, right?

[00:14:29] In the power and might of the Lord, like you said, it's not our power at all.

[00:14:33] Right.

[00:14:34] But that name of Jesus is powerful.

[00:14:37] And, you know, that's something that we can, in the moments of temptation or just trial, just ask, in the name of Jesus, just Satan flee from me and leave me alone.

[00:14:50] And there is power in that.

[00:14:53] It's not like magic, but there's, you know, something about invoking, like asking Jesus to help us.

[00:15:00] Well, look at John 10, 10.

[00:15:01] You know, the thief comes to steal and kill and destroy.

[00:15:06] That's his motive.

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:07] That's his job.

[00:15:08] Only job.

[00:15:08] To destroy us, to destroy our reputations, to destroy our lives, to destroy our marriages, our parenting, and to kill us.

[00:15:19] And then the second half of that verse is what Jesus says, I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

[00:15:27] That's God's motive for our life, right?

[00:15:30] Amen.

[00:15:30] And it's not, that's our God.

[00:15:33] You're saying it's so powerful, that he's so powerful in our lives.

[00:15:37] And look at his goal for our lives, that we would have life and it would be abundant.

[00:15:42] But the enemy, so we have to know, you know what I mean?

[00:15:45] Like you've got to know the difference.

[00:15:47] And sometimes we walk right into it, don't we?

[00:15:49] I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I've had situations where I just like become powerless because I'm not looking to Jesus.

[00:15:59] I'm caught off guard.

[00:16:01] Maybe I'm discouraged.

[00:16:02] So he piles on, right?

[00:16:04] You get discouraged and then in comes, you know, a health issue.

[00:16:09] Like I remember just listening to Corrie ten Boom once and I've struggled with, I think it's an autoimmune disease, but Epstein-Barr for many, many years.

[00:16:21] I don't talk about that often, but I would struggle.

[00:16:26] Like when I'd go to teach, I would, you know, all of a sudden I would like get fatigued or be sick or stress brings it on sometimes.

[00:16:33] And I never thought of that even as a spiritual warfare tactic, but then I heard Corrie ten Boom talk about her health issues.

[00:16:42] And it was interesting because those things, you know, you guys have heard, I've had people come in and go, oh my gosh, I just keep getting migraines on Sunday and I can't come to church.

[00:16:53] And so you kind of wonder if those things like, is this the enemy playing with us?

[00:16:57] Is this, you know, and you don't want to give in, but yet it's sometimes hard to figure out, you know, and the Bible does tell us, hey, test every spirit.

[00:17:07] You know what I mean?

[00:17:08] Like figure out whether it's from God or from the enemy.

[00:17:13] Right.

[00:17:13] That's, and that, I think that discernment, it goes back to knowing him, having that belt of truth, knowing him, staying on his word.

[00:17:20] Because the better we know him, we're in prayer, which is one of the weapons, right?

[00:17:25] The better we know him, the better we can discern that.

[00:17:28] Still, it's confusing.

[00:17:30] Yeah.

[00:17:30] Is this a consequence?

[00:17:31] Is this me?

[00:17:32] Because it can be.

[00:17:33] Did my sin bring this on?

[00:17:34] And so you're always self, you know, evaluating and repenting if need be.

[00:17:40] But, you know, and I think whatever it is, sometimes we handle it the same.

[00:17:45] We do all that.

[00:17:46] We pray, we praise, we be watchful, we can fast, we worship through it.

[00:17:52] You know, Jesus said to watch and pray so we don't enter in temptation.

[00:17:55] He said that in the garden, but I think that still applies to us today, watch and pray.

[00:17:59] And so we still continue to seek the Lord, even if we don't know if it's warfare, a consequence, like whatever, you know, we do the same kind of things.

[00:18:11] So, and I really like in the weapons of war, Paul says, above all, take up the shield of faith.

[00:18:19] Our faith is so important.

[00:18:21] Above it, you know, our faith in God, our faith in his word, our faith in his promises, you know, we need that.

[00:18:28] And if we don't know the truth well, we are not holding up our, you know, our faith.

[00:18:33] In the other part of that verse, he talks about, you know, that the shield of faith is what extinguishes the fiery darts, right?

[00:18:40] Right.

[00:18:40] From the enemy.

[00:18:42] In all directions.

[00:18:43] And if you don't cover your backside, they come to the backside, like you just have to be aware.

[00:18:49] I think Job is an interesting book that gives a little peek into what happens in the spiritual realm.

[00:18:58] I think it's the only place in the Bible that does that apart from revelation.

[00:19:02] And in the book of Job, it shows what Satan is doing, that he's wandering about on the earth.

[00:19:10] He's studying people.

[00:19:11] He's observing.

[00:19:12] And it's like he's going back and forth, thoroughly observing and studying how he can attack.

[00:19:20] He's looking for weaknesses.

[00:19:21] He wants to undermine our faith.

[00:19:24] And he wants to destroy our lives, destroy our families, destroy our marriages.

[00:19:30] But Job 1 is really interesting.

[00:19:33] God engages with him and says, have you seen my servant Job?

[00:19:38] Yeah.

[00:19:38] He's amazing.

[00:19:39] And so the attacks that come against Job in chapter 1 are pretty interesting.

[00:19:45] They come from a variety of places that Satan attacks him through the weather where the wind blows so much that it destroys the roof and it falls and kills his entire family of children.

[00:20:00] He inspires people.

[00:20:30] He consumed his wealth and what he had.

[00:20:33] And I just think that's so interesting to just see how Satan is able to work here in our world.

[00:20:38] We don't have a lot of other pictures except for when Jesus was walking around.

[00:20:43] And it was just full.

[00:20:45] And it's full in the Gospels of all the healings, of all the times he prays over the demoniacs and casts out demons.

[00:20:53] I mean, he's very active.

[00:20:55] And so we see some in the book of Acts.

[00:20:59] We see just in different places some of these different activities in the spiritual realm.

[00:21:05] But I think we mentioned in the very beginning 2 Corinthians 10.

[00:21:10] And it talks a lot about the mind.

[00:21:14] Yeah.

[00:21:14] I find that.

[00:21:15] Did we read that?

[00:21:16] Let me read that.

[00:21:17] I find that scripture so important that we have that understanding.

[00:21:23] So it's 2 Corinthians 10, 4.

[00:21:26] And it says,

[00:21:37] And so it goes on to talk about the mind.

[00:21:41] It says,

[00:21:51] So I think a lot of time the battle is in our thought life.

[00:21:56] And most of the time, I feel like.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:21:59] And it can come in so many ways.

[00:22:01] You know, I didn't even mention Job also is inflicted physically.

[00:22:05] Like we were just talking about that.

[00:22:07] And his bad friends.

[00:22:08] Yeah, that too.

[00:22:09] And the wife.

[00:22:10] Yeah.

[00:22:11] Oh, the wife.

[00:22:11] She tempts him too.

[00:22:12] Goodness gracious.

[00:22:13] The enemy can inspire all of them.

[00:22:14] People come to us.

[00:22:15] He's like, just kill yourself.

[00:22:17] Just die.

[00:22:17] Just curse God and die.

[00:22:18] Curse God and die.

[00:22:20] Yeah.

[00:22:20] Such good, terrible advice.

[00:22:21] But it's such an important part of what you're saying in Job, though, to understand so that

[00:22:26] we don't fear that God allowed the enemy to do that.

[00:22:29] He allowed Satan to attack Job like that.

[00:22:32] And so when we're experiencing warfare, he's allowing it for our growth, for all the things.

[00:22:40] But Job couldn't attack.

[00:22:43] I mean, the enemy couldn't attack Job unless God said, gave him permission to.

[00:22:48] There were parameters that were put on Job.

[00:22:51] Yeah, there's parameters.

[00:22:51] And so we need to remember that.

[00:22:52] But even so, if you think about it, it wasn't that Satan came and said, hey, let me go after Job.

[00:23:02] God suggested it.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:04] He said, have you considered my servant Job?

[00:23:07] Right.

[00:23:08] And I think it's to prove a very important point because Satan is saying, well, look at this guy.

[00:23:14] The only reason he follows you is because you bless him.

[00:23:18] You gave him wealth.

[00:23:19] He's so wealthy.

[00:23:20] Why wouldn't he follow?

[00:23:21] Like, why wouldn't he follow you?

[00:23:23] And God proves that Job, through it all, does not curse God, does not turn his back on God.

[00:23:31] He struggles all throughout the book with his friends.

[00:23:33] But at the end, God says, Job has not sinned against me.

[00:23:37] And he proves that you can remove everything he has and inflict his body.

[00:23:43] But his faith is real.

[00:23:45] Right.

[00:23:46] This thing is real, Satan.

[00:23:47] This love that these people, this loving relationship, the faith these people have in me is a real thing.

[00:23:53] And God didn't curse.

[00:23:54] Like you said, he said, he hasn't sinned against me.

[00:23:57] And we do know that Job struggled.

[00:23:59] You could tell in some of the things he said.

[00:24:01] But yet in the struggle of his questioning and calling out to the Lord, he didn't sin, which is important for us to understand, too.

[00:24:08] We don't want to question God sometimes.

[00:24:10] Well, you know what I mean.

[00:24:11] Good questioning.

[00:24:12] Our struggle.

[00:24:14] We struggle.

[00:24:15] No, you're right.

[00:24:15] You're right.

[00:24:16] It's okay to struggle.

[00:24:17] Yeah.

[00:24:18] It's okay to ask questions.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:20] But we shouldn't move into disbelief.

[00:24:23] Right.

[00:24:23] Right.

[00:24:23] And he didn't.

[00:24:24] It's actually important that we struggle through these big trials in life, these questions.

[00:24:29] Yeah.

[00:24:29] And God's big that he can handle all of these questions, Brenda said in the beginning of this podcast.

[00:24:35] Yeah.

[00:24:36] But, you know, going on, I think I really love this talk about the mind, the verse in Ephesians that we already mentioned, that we put up the shield of faith and we need to distinguish.

[00:24:51] We need to put out all the flaming arrows of the evil one.

[00:24:54] He's shooting those at us.

[00:24:56] And I think of them as those thoughts that come to our minds that just try to defeat us and cripple us even so that we can't serve the Lord.

[00:25:05] We can't go on.

[00:25:06] And I've seen things like this, you know, where just thoughts come and this is just getting real using real examples, but against my husband.

[00:25:18] Oh, can you believe he just did that?

[00:25:21] What a terrible person.

[00:25:22] How can I be married to such a terrible person?

[00:25:25] He's so bad.

[00:25:26] He's so wrong.

[00:25:27] How can I stay here?

[00:25:28] And I'm like, you know, getting more and more riled up the more I let those thoughts come in and I let them roll with me.

[00:25:36] And I just, you know, get to the point where I'm just so mad.

[00:25:41] And I have to remember my enemy is not my husband.

[00:25:46] My enemy is the devil.

[00:25:47] And, you know, these arrows that come at us, they flame.

[00:25:51] They're out to destroy and to destroy marriages.

[00:25:54] And we need to put up that shield of faith and, you know, just have perspective and just keep these things real.

[00:26:04] You know that this happens every day.

[00:26:06] I think that it's important for us to really take a walk with and really realize that Satan is an opportunist.

[00:26:16] And he's going to take any opportunity.

[00:26:18] I was looking up the definition of what an opportunist is.

[00:26:21] And it's a person.

[00:26:22] Satan is a person who exploits circumstances to gain immediate advantage rather than being guided by consistent principles or plans.

[00:26:31] That's what he's trying to overthrow in us.

[00:26:34] And so I was thinking about this just a few minutes ago and I was thinking about a criminal.

[00:26:39] You know, they're opportunists.

[00:26:41] And so what do we need to be doing?

[00:26:44] Like when you're out late or you're walking down a street that you're not familiar with or you're in a different area, you're watchful, you're diligent, you have your head on a swivel.

[00:26:54] It's like those are the people who don't get attacked, right?

[00:26:58] It's the people who aren't paying attention or doing something else and they're leaving their expensive things out.

[00:27:06] That's when opportunity knocks and criminals will take that opportunity.

[00:27:12] And I feel like that with Satan.

[00:27:14] It's like if we give him opportunity, he's going to come in.

[00:27:17] He's going to try.

[00:27:18] We're an easy target.

[00:27:19] Yeah, if you're an easy target, he's going to come back.

[00:27:22] And so I think that's why when you brought up in the beginning, Rosemary, you know that we need to stand and we need to be diligent.

[00:27:30] We need to be mindful.

[00:27:31] We need to be watchful.

[00:27:32] All the things that the scripture tells us.

[00:27:35] The reason is because when we're watchful, then those opportunities aren't going to come.

[00:27:39] Or when we get through those opportunities, like, you know, gosh, you know, I keep getting attacked in this one area.

[00:27:45] Well, if I have some wins in that battle, then I guess I think what I'm trying to say is you guys will find like that sometimes then that goes away.

[00:27:57] Because the enemy can't win.

[00:27:59] And we see people being defeated because it's like over and over and over and over again.

[00:28:04] They just allow the opportunity to come in and to kill and to steal and destroy.

[00:28:09] And it's like, man, I don't want to be an easy target.

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:13] And I have a story about that.

[00:28:17] Actually, it's me telling the story of my son.

[00:28:22] But my son had, and this surprised me as a parent, just I would call it like a dark period in life.

[00:28:31] Just really struggling, trying to figure out who he is, his faith, like where he stands, all of these things.

[00:28:39] And that's, you know, just these growing up pains.

[00:28:41] But I started to realize that this wasn't like a normal kind of anger that he was having.

[00:28:50] He was angry with me, but like really angry.

[00:28:53] I sensed hatred.

[00:28:56] And I just, it just hurt, you know, the way he was so angry that I could tell he hated me.

[00:29:03] And I asked the Lord for wisdom.

[00:29:05] What is going on with my child?

[00:29:08] Give me discernment.

[00:29:09] Help me to see what I need to do and what is going on in his heart that is spurring on this hatred.

[00:29:16] And it was causing division and trying to destroy my son.

[00:29:20] And it was interesting because I just felt the Lord give me a word of knowledge.

[00:29:26] And he said, the devil is tempting him, feeding him words to get him to hate you and hate the rest of the family.

[00:29:34] And he's trying to drive this hatred as a wedge into your family to destroy you all.

[00:29:41] And it just was so heavy, you know, that I just realized this is a big spiritual battle in his life and for our family right now.

[00:29:50] My son was just being tempted to destroy.

[00:29:56] And I just started talking to him about the realities, giving him some truth.

[00:30:02] Because like when Jesus was tempted by the devil, we battle these things with truth and with gospel.

[00:30:10] And I started giving my son some scripture.

[00:30:14] And I started talking about love.

[00:30:16] And I started talking about the devil with him.

[00:30:19] And I said, is this what's happening?

[00:30:22] Like these thoughts coming in.

[00:30:24] And he, you know, started to see what was going on.

[00:30:28] And I could see that this was something I needed to equip my child for.

[00:30:34] And I said, when these thoughts are coming at you, God gives you spiritual armor in Ephesians 6.

[00:30:41] And you put up that shield of faith and you quote back scripture.

[00:30:45] You quote truth.

[00:30:47] And you just need to have your mind focused, like it says in Philippians 4, on what is good, what is real, what is true and kind, and all of those good things on the Lord.

[00:31:00] And so my son was fighting a battle in his mind.

[00:31:04] And he was learning to put up that shield of faith.

[00:31:07] And then we taught him to say, in the name of Jesus, you get out of here, devil, and you stop tempting me.

[00:31:15] You stop talking to me.

[00:31:17] And he came back and he said, it works.

[00:31:22] And he said, the darkest times of his day were when it was dark in his room and he was trying to fall asleep at night.

[00:31:31] And these thoughts would fill his mind.

[00:31:33] And he was drowning, he said.

[00:31:35] I was drowning in them.

[00:31:37] I felt powerless.

[00:31:39] I thought that it was the truth.

[00:31:42] I thought it was real.

[00:31:43] But these were lies of the enemy to destroy my son and destroy my family.

[00:31:49] And he started to use his weapons.

[00:31:52] And he said, Mom, at the end of this, he said, I realize that the devil is real.

[00:31:59] I know he hates me.

[00:32:01] I know he hates God's people.

[00:32:03] And he said, I looked at Satan in the face.

[00:32:08] And his goal was to hurt me and destroy my faith.

[00:32:12] He said, but actually my faith became real.

[00:32:14] And it became strong.

[00:32:16] And I don't want to be duped by him again.

[00:32:20] And that's his story, that he's wanted to walk with the Lord since that time.

[00:32:25] But it was so deep and so dark.

[00:32:28] And I had to have the Lord just work in my son's life.

[00:32:32] And he had like a mentor come and kind of work with him, coach him, encourage him.

[00:32:39] How to come out of this dark time.

[00:32:42] And he said, Mom, it works.

[00:32:45] Oh, that's so powerful.

[00:32:47] And I think so many good nuggets in that rosemary that people can take and practice just in their own lives.

[00:32:54] You know, the enemy doesn't want to give people up over to God.

[00:32:58] And he's going to try really hard to keep us in that dark, isolated, lonely place in the prison, really.

[00:33:06] Right?

[00:33:07] Where there's, we're slaves to sin.

[00:33:09] And he wanted to keep them enslaved.

[00:33:11] But God came and he wanted to set him free.

[00:33:14] And what, I mean, really great tip for parenting on how to disciple your child.

[00:33:22] So thanks for sharing that.

[00:33:24] That was so, so amazing.

[00:33:25] Yeah, I think.

[00:33:26] And we have all this.

[00:33:28] Oh, go ahead.

[00:33:28] No, go ahead.

[00:33:29] No, go ahead.

[00:33:29] We have all this talk, you know, about the devil.

[00:33:33] But honestly, I would say that our greatest enemy is our flesh.

[00:33:39] What, you know, what I know is that Romans 6 talks a lot about the flesh and how we, it's like we wage a war with our flesh and with our spirit.

[00:33:52] It's in Galatians 5, 17 to the flesh desires what is contrary to the spirit and the spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

[00:34:01] They are in conflict with each other so that you are not to do whatever you want.

[00:34:05] And it's so interesting because our flesh, like we can just be easily tempted by the devil with our strengths of who we are, our character.

[00:34:16] And like you said, Kelly, he found a way to get at King David and Peter and people who walked with Jesus.

[00:34:24] And so we're not any better than them.

[00:34:27] Right.

[00:34:27] And oddly, I'm comforted by their example.

[00:34:30] Yeah.

[00:34:30] No, that's true.

[00:34:32] I guess I would just say, too, after Paul talks about the armor, he makes that appeal for prayer, you know.

[00:34:38] And they say prayer is the power behind the armor.

[00:34:42] And, you know, that's just really true.

[00:34:45] And prayer is the means that we put on the armor and the power that makes the armor work.

[00:34:50] And how important it is for staying in prayer.

[00:34:53] And I just kept picturing when Moses was up there and every time, you know, during that battle and every time his arms fell, they were getting defeated.

[00:35:00] And I know it's a little different context, but when they kept his arm up, the battle was they were winning.

[00:35:06] And that just reminds me to keep my prayers up, you know, keep my arms up in prayer to the Lord so that we are making headway in the battle.

[00:35:16] And then when your arms are tired, you ask your friends to help you.

[00:35:20] Yep.

[00:35:20] Right?

[00:35:21] Yeah.

[00:35:21] But that's awesome.

[00:35:23] I like the focus that you gave on the flesh because I think that so many times that we help the enemy out, you were talking about marriage.

[00:35:33] He doesn't have to do anything.

[00:35:35] Right.

[00:35:36] Or shoot one dart.

[00:35:37] We're suckers.

[00:35:38] We're suckers.

[00:35:38] Sorry.

[00:35:39] We bite the bait, right?

[00:35:40] Yes.

[00:35:40] And the bait comes along and we just like, you know, sometimes you can see it very clearly.

[00:35:45] And other times I think in marriage, it's really difficult because, you know, we're so quick to just like believe those lies about our husband.

[00:35:54] And sometimes I'll even ask myself like, you know, if I have a thought about my husband and then it'll be like, is that really true?

[00:36:02] Yeah.

[00:36:03] And then I'll have a follow up question.

[00:36:05] Well, are you any better?

[00:36:06] Yeah.

[00:36:06] You know, when it's like, okay, we're human.

[00:36:10] We all know.

[00:36:11] We're all bad.

[00:36:12] Jesus good.

[00:36:12] Like we get that.

[00:36:14] But yeah, our flesh can get in the way and the enemy can use that even like as part of spiritual warfare against our husbands.

[00:36:22] You know, he's using us as a tactic to discourage them to, you know, make them want to quit.

[00:36:30] I mean, I can't tell you how many times like in 32 years of ministry where my husband and I maybe have been in a fight where he's like, I'll just quit because I, our relationship has to be okay.

[00:36:44] And if we're not doing well, then it's hard to do ministry when you're fractured in that way.

[00:36:52] And there have been times where I've had to settle that and how we've seen it, how many people have fallen in ministry because of their marriage.

[00:37:02] Their marriage needed attention or they needed to, you know, get out of ministry so they can concentrate on their marriage.

[00:37:10] And Satan goes after that union.

[00:37:13] One of the first things that happened in the garden is that Satan questioned for Eve, you know, you deserve this.

[00:37:24] You need this fruit.

[00:37:26] You need to eat of it and take it in.

[00:37:29] God doesn't want good things for you.

[00:37:31] And, you know, he tempted her with the lust of her flesh and the lust of her eyes and, and the pride of life that you can have better if you follow me and do what I'm suggesting.

[00:37:44] Yeah.

[00:37:45] I think of the question, you know, did God really say?

[00:37:48] Did God know?

[00:37:49] Yeah, the doubt.

[00:37:50] Oh my.

[00:37:51] Well, as we're wrapping this conversation up, we could talk about it for a few hours.

[00:37:56] But, um, Kelly, you had a book that you recommended.

[00:38:00] Why don't you just give that?

[00:38:01] And then I'll ask Rosemary if she had any recommendations.

[00:38:04] It's called What to Wear to the War by Warren Wiersbe.

[00:38:08] And it's studies from Ephesians 6.

[00:38:11] And I find it's a very small book, so it's easy to read.

[00:38:14] But, like, sometimes we think, oh, we know the armor and the pieces.

[00:38:18] He just has a different perspective.

[00:38:19] And he's one of my favorites anyways, writer.

[00:38:22] But it's really good.

[00:38:23] Very encouraging.

[00:38:24] So that's my recommendation.

[00:38:27] That's a good one.

[00:38:28] Anything Rosemary?

[00:38:29] And, you know, besides the Bible, of course, I actually enjoy the book by Brian Broderson.

[00:38:35] It's called The Powers of Darkness and the People of God.

[00:38:39] And it's on spiritual warfare.

[00:38:41] So it's been, it's concise and covers a lot of ground.

[00:38:47] I go through it.

[00:38:49] And he even brings up bitterness, unforgiveness, and how those are holdouts for the devil in our hearts.

[00:38:55] And just some really good material here.

[00:38:58] Wow.

[00:38:58] That's good.

[00:38:59] That, like, encouragement.

[00:39:01] Now I want to read both of those.

[00:39:02] All right.

[00:39:04] Well, thanks, Rosemary Kelly.

[00:39:05] Great conversation today on a very needed topic.

[00:39:09] Well, stay watchful, guys.

[00:39:11] Yes.

[00:39:12] Amen.

[00:39:13] Thank you for joining us today.

[00:39:15] At When She Leads, our mission is to equip, connect, and uplift women in ministry.

[00:39:21] To stay informed about upcoming conferences, events, and online gatherings, visit us at whensheleads.org.

[00:39:27] Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram to be part of the ongoing conversation.