In today’s class I ask the men in the class, what would you want to tell your sisters in Christ that they could do to help you fight the battle against objectification. I ask the women in the class the same thing about the men. It’s a great discussion with a lot of fantastic input from the students, and we hope it gives you a lot to think about.
Stay tuned for next week’s episode where we contrast the culture of Heaven and the Culture of the World as it pertains to sexual objectification, and dive into the reality that following Jesus is not just a mere belief system but actually an entirely new way to be human.
[00:00:00] My name is Scott Wilberg. My name is Lindsay Chase. My name is Michael Riley. My name is Kayle Llan.
[00:00:07] And I am Erin Savato. Welcome to The GoodLion PodClass, a show where we get a small group of students together with the teacher to learn and discuss theology and the Christian life and then we share those conversations with all of you.
[00:00:20] Today we're diving in to part 5 of our current class, Fighting Sexual Objectification Together. Today's episode is titled, Ways Men and Women Can Help One Another Fight. In today's episode I ask the girls in the class what would you want to tell your brothers and
[00:00:37] Christ that they could do to help you fight the battle against objectification? And I ask the men the same thing about the women. It's a great discussion with a lot of fantastic input from the students and we hope it gives you a lot to think about.
[00:00:52] We hope you enjoy the discussion thanks so much for listening. Here's the podcast.
[00:00:58] So I just want to ask, I want you guys to go and just explain from a guys perspective and a girls perspective. What could members of the opposite sex do better to help you fight the battle against less in objectification?
[00:01:11] That's a tough question. When I taught this at Bible College, I let everyone like anonymously text in their questions to an app that I had but let's just have a hard conversation.
[00:01:24] Anybody want to go first. Let's have a girl go first. What what what are ways that guys could help you in that struggle of less to objectification? Like what are ways that guys could do better to not be temptations?
[00:01:40] I the first I came to my computer and I was like speak up, but then I read the question again. That was the question.
[00:01:46] But it could be the same thing and like that when we do speak up that the guys need to listen and not just listen for the tenants that you're talking to them.
[00:01:58] Because it's like girls are said to be more emotional, but not every girl is emotional so it's like when somebody like when I open up to people, it takes a lot to open up to people and so it's when I when I do I've like
[00:02:16] picked the person I'm like something that sounds weird. No, the person that I trust enough to like tell this. Absolutely. And so just like listening and
[00:02:27] like listening and then like asking questions that will help like meet get better and stick to what I've like what I've just told you to what I've just confessed that in that sense like to help yeah help me get better and help me get on the track to where I need to go and not
[00:02:43] keep me and keep into keeping accountable. It's like the same thing with like what Kayla was saying, oh I'll go that. Like if a brother struggles with less I'm going to wear a bigger shirt.
[00:02:57] Like if I struggle with less I'm going to the guys not going to know unless I speak up and so if I say hey I struggle with this I need you to do this right or could you do this instead of just telling them would be important.
[00:03:09] Yeah, here's the sad reality. So even sometimes like in Christian circles if a guy finds out that a girl struggles with less because a lot of guys just thinking, oh it's just guys but I mean the reality is men and women are all sexual beings a lot of women struggle with that temptation as well.
[00:03:26] When a guy finds out instead of thinking, oh I need to do whatever I can to protect her his mind goes to oh well she's easy like she's tempted like oh man I need to get on that because I have an opportunity there. There's a window.
[00:03:39] And so I think what you're getting at is so huge the reality that like men do need to protect their sisters. So like actually look after them and not see a weakness as an opening, but to see a weakness is that's my sister and she's being oppressed by the enemy just as I'm oppressed by the enemy. Like I need to do whatever I can to protect her purity and her heart and her intentions. So I make sense. Yeah anybody else? It's the tough one.
[00:04:11] Kayla what do you think? Oh yeah. I'm thinking. Um, do you more time to think? No I have something on my mind that I said not to say. I would say just because like humans are human beings both. Oh sorry.
[00:04:30] Both brothers and sisters need to do a good job at like okay for example in high school. I had a guy friend who was my friends and it's like eight great all the way up through high school. So never did I see him as anything more than a friend and we could like.
[00:04:49] We could sit in the living room and watch movies for hours and hours and there was no temptation or anything like that.
[00:04:56] And we could write in a car for hours and there was no temptation where we could like sometimes he would even go on family vacation with me just because that's how it was.
[00:05:04] It wasn't weird. But this is for the boys and the girls to just take note and take notice of like even if you don't think there's anything there with somebody and even if there's not like the temptation could still pop up if you were by yourself with them.
[00:05:22] Like even if there's never been anything, if you aren't like a boy in a girl in a room by yourself like something could happen. You know what I mean?
[00:05:31] Yeah. So just boys be adamant about watching where you are with these girls and then girls do the same thing. The guys. So not necessarily like the physical looking boys where differently they differently but even just being conscious about that.
[00:05:47] Like being mindful of that. Yeah and yeah, that's the satirality again for a lot of men. They see being alone with a girl as just like open door opportunity. Like they're they're working to make those situations happen and I think, I mean,
[00:06:04] I've spent a lot of time with high school boys and I've seen them do things that are so silly sometimes like you know on group retreats, you know sitting with a girl off in the corner and just like running their hands through their hair or something and it's like they're not even dating like,
[00:06:19] the girls got a boyfriend back home or something but it's like they're, it's not wisdom on their part. It's just doing whatever feels good in the moment and not caring about how it actually affects somebody or how it could stir up temptations and somebody.
[00:06:31] A lot of guys just don't think that girls really have those temptations and so recognizing that it is very easy for those temptations to happen and not putting your sister in a situation that causes those temptations.
[00:06:44] The huge and girls like girls do the same thing. Yeah, they think the same thing or just probably not as confident to make the first move I guess. Right.
[00:06:53] The society is like ingrained it into their heads that men make the first move. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay guys, what do you think? You've been silent too long for the talk. It's tough because it's tough because it's like, because if it's been hitting on the nail it's like,
[00:07:10] dress more modestly. Yeah, like that was that was the first one like the Bible college like they texted in questions this app and they could like all up though. And one of the ones was where some dang clothes and that had like like 50 up votes from the guys.
[00:07:25] Like, I hate I hate saying that one because I feel like it's just like textbook. Yeah, but it's it's not like where some dang clothes and I'm not asking head to toe in like a tune it or whatever. But whatever.
[00:07:43] Or whatever. But like what I'm saying is like just be mindful that we live in a society now that that is one tap away and that is one click away and that is I can go on Facebook or Instagram or whatever.
[00:08:00] Yeah. And it's right there and then if I go to an area of my life whether it's church or community group or something like that and that's just another trigger or another fuel added to the fire that personally I I start with and I'm not the only man.
[00:08:16] Yeah, that feels that way. I think I think most men would agree they feel that way and it's something that again if a woman dresses and modestly and a guy objectifies her.
[00:08:29] It's not like the fault of the woman of whatever the guy did he still has to take responsibility.
[00:08:35] But I think I think I'm not nervous to say this in the company of the girls that we have sitting right here because you've made it very clear that you guys have this heart.
[00:08:43] To look out for your brothers and say, I don't want to do anything that stumbles them that's huge that you guys are there like I didn't know going to this conversation like what it was going to be and where you guys were at on things thought you know it's just like whatever it's going to be it's refreshing to hear your guys is perspective on it.
[00:08:58] But yeah, I mean I've had to personally unfollow some people that I've known or people I'm friends with on Instagram because of the way that they dress and and post and it's sometimes overtly in a sexual way where it's just like you would never look at that post and not think they were trying to sexualize themselves.
[00:09:16] And as a guy who's married, I've had to unfollow people and it sucks you know because I know a lot of people have those ads where they can see you know who's unfollowing who people are probably like why are they unfollowing me.
[00:09:26] But for me as a husband and I would say the same thing the single guys like we don't want to put ourselves in a place where where the door is easily open for us to objectify girls just because somebody is there dressing in that way does not give us the license and the permission to say oh like all look there objectifying themselves therefore now I can I can go and do it because they're basically
[00:09:45] asking for it. So I think what you're saying I think there are a lot of Christian guys who would say to the girls around them who maybe are dressing in a way that's in modest.
[00:09:55] Please help us we're not saying that it's your fault we're not saying because some girls do it and they don't even know that they're doing it like to them they're just going with what's the most fashionable what's the most comfortable like they're not trying to stumble anybody but.
[00:10:09] Yeah it's just one of those things where there are a lot of guys who are kind of crying for helping this and saying like it would really bless me if the women in my life would be mindful of my struggle and this kind of like the same thing you were saying Lindsay about the other side of the coin for for men to be mindful of the struggle that women have.
[00:10:29] I just want to just want to just want to just say one more thing like in a sense of like understanding our role as men in this too like and I'm saying this.
[00:10:39] That only to the the men in this room but like also to anyone that hears this like understanding your role and realize that if you do like struggle with the justification and lust and you go on Instagram or you go on Facebook or you go on Snapchat and.
[00:10:55] You realize that those those vessels are not helping you you need to take it the next step and actually remove those from your life because that is only going to contribute further more to the justification and lust in your life and I only bring that up because I feel like that is.
[00:11:11] I think that's what's within our generation the primary vessel that that can lead to real life.
[00:11:18] Yeah, scenarios where a justification and lust can happen right so just I think that's where we can step into that also communicating with our sisters along the way but that's one avenue I know that.
[00:11:33] I'm not taking but also I know people in my life have taken to really remove that scenario for popping up in their life. It's great make it. She's a good. Sorry Scott. You're just trying to form it. I think.
[00:11:48] It's a pretty tough question. I'll give you that but I think it's just just asking the ladies to call us out.
[00:11:57] What whenever. Yeah, because there's a lot of times we're in it could be that we there's just in case by case like guys just have just individual like brokenness that they don't see and blind spots but there's also like stuff that like guys just don't see in general because they don't have the girls perspective.
[00:12:16] And so just having and just asking that they have willing to have the awkward conversation to say hey I'm feeling comfortable in the situation. Because there could be stuff like guys don't see it could be again case by case basis. That makes sense at all.
[00:12:32] Oh absolutely, I think that's a great point. Yeah, just I'm sure for the guys in the girl like just communication like Michael saying is like communication about and not not being afraid to step on toes in love.
[00:12:45] Yeah, and knowing that it's for the benefit of relationship and know that if each each person's sexuality. Yeah, the tentations that could happen from that. So okay so on that I'll just bring up an example that I think will kind of help what you're saying land.
[00:13:02] I think that a lot of times there's guys who struggle with not even really realizing what they're doing and that's not saying they're not to blame for what they're doing but sometimes.
[00:13:13] Guys can just be very flirtatious and not really even understand the impact is happening like I remember there was a guy in the youth group if any of you through kids are listening this could be any of you because there was many of you are many years so don't try to figure it out
[00:13:28] But there there was a guy at one point who was super flirty with the girls and I remember he would just be all over them and very handsy and very touchy and just often the corner with them all the time.
[00:13:42] And it was oftentimes like a lot of times with girls that had boyfriends and you know he just he knew they had boyfriends but in his mind he's like I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm just very friendly.
[00:13:52] But I think like what you're saying Scott is how great would it be if girls who are seeing that would like speak up in that guy's life and like not put up with this crap basically and say hey listen like she has a girlfriend what are you doing like cut that out like and and you know someone might get defensive
[00:14:09] But I think that again as if we're not Christians then a lot of this doesn't work but as Christians you know and people listen as podcast you know if you're a Christian
[00:14:18] We should be calling each other to follow Jesus and imitate Jesus and the call of Jesus is that we honor one another and love one another and respect one others made the image of God. So that means you know if there's a higher girl in your life and they're dating somebody and they're trying to be faithful
[00:14:34] their boyfriend or girlfriend and even remains sexually pure in that relationship to add fuel onto that fire and to to flirt and to not think about the implications of what it could mean for that person and what it's doing in their heart.
[00:14:47] It's a it's a dangerous path and so I think yeah, I think that's a great one Scott to ask the girls like in our groups of friends when they see that to be willing to like make that bold move and call it out is is huge is that what you're kind of getting it that kind of thing.
[00:15:01] Yeah, calling guys out on their craft. Yeah, that would be that's perfect. How do you girls have any have you had any bad experiences calling guys out on things? Yeah. Yeah, I have I've always had mainly guy friends and I am a very blunt person in the way.
[00:15:20] So eventually they like understood why I was doing it, but like right off the bat they were like like why are you saying that like I'm not doing that like being get a super defensive and I'm like you don't realize it but like imagine if like you saw my boyfriend doing that every occasion.
[00:15:41] They were like oh, that would not happen. There you go. Like the same thing. And so it just like it's just like you call them out and they don't get it for a second. You have to let them let it process. Yeah.
[00:15:56] Thanks for listening to episode five of this podcast stay tuned for next week's episode where we contrast the culture of heaven and the culture of the world as it pertains to sexual objectification.
[00:16:07] And we dive into the reality that following Jesus is not just a mere belief system but actually an entirely new way to be human.
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[00:16:28] Also, if this episode has stirred up any questions in you we'd love to do a Q&A episode responding to your questions in this series.
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[00:17:12] Thanks guys and remember never stop learning.
