Theology: What is the Nature of Sin? | Brian Higgins & Aaron Salvato

[00:00:00] As we grapple with big questions of faith, scripture and what it means to follow Jesus

[00:00:08] in today's world, every single one of us will find ourselves venturing into a topic that

[00:00:13] says ancient as humanity itself. And that is the nature of sin. What is sin? Where did

[00:00:21] it come from? What does it do? What is its nature and essence? What is its purpose? What

[00:00:27] are its dangers and why does it even exist? How does understanding its true nature affect

[00:00:33] our relationship with God and with others? Today Brian and I will explore how this ancient concept

[00:00:40] is still shaping our lives and our faith today. We're glad you're here with us. Let's dive into

[00:00:46] our episode on the nature of sin. Here we go. Hey everybody, welcome to The GoodLion Podcast.

[00:00:55] I am Aaron Salvato and I'm Brian Higgins. And we are jumping into the first part of a series on

[00:01:03] all of the deep dark things. Sin, hell, why are we doing this, Brian? Because these are

[00:01:13] important overlooked aspects of the Christian faith. We are very quick to talk about

[00:01:20] we are saved by Jesus. We are part of His kingdom. We are free from the bondage of slavery and we

[00:01:28] use all of these different positive attributes to describe what we have in Christ. But if you were freed

[00:01:37] from a room full of puppies and sour patch kids, being freed from that isn't exactly a great thing

[00:01:45] versus if you were being freed from a room filled with snakes and carrot top. That's the room

[00:01:51] you want to get out of. We want to talk about what exactly is the dark in the picture of God's light.

[00:01:59] Wow, that I just want you guys to know that was completely unscripted. I just threw Brian

[00:02:07] the opportunity to craft the intro for us and that's a gift. That's talent. That all just came

[00:02:12] straight from your head man. Well done. I agree. I think we've grown up in the church and I think

[00:02:18] when you grow up in the church, you hear words like sin, you hear words like hell. And a lot of times

[00:02:24] you're asking the question, what do these actually mean? And a lot of times were passed down weird

[00:02:29] baggage about what that stuff means that isn't actually biblical or true. And honestly our

[00:02:37] faith around that issue can be really shallow at times. We can have a really overtly simplistic

[00:02:43] view of sin and of hell and of darkness and of spiritual forces. And so this is a series we've

[00:02:50] been wanting to do for years. The question of just, hey, let's start with sin. What is sin?

[00:03:07] So let's go ahead and start with that question. What is sin? What is it actually? How can we move it

[00:03:22] out of theory and into tangible reality? Brian, let me ask you when you were growing up as a young

[00:03:29] Christian in the church, what was your view of sin? To me, sin was pretty much exactly the same

[00:03:38] as doing the things your parents told you not to do. Only Jesus was the parent. That was kind

[00:03:45] of the way that I framed it in my mind. And I want to run with that analogy for a second because

[00:03:52] when you think of just doing what your parents tell you, for the most part,

[00:03:58] you don't really think about is what they're telling me to do good or not. You don't see an

[00:04:05] intrinsic link between cleaning my room is a good thing for me as a person. Or making sure I don't

[00:04:14] eat on the couch is a good thing for me as a person. That link just isn't there even though there are

[00:04:20] a lot of helpful principles that are sitting behind all of that. I'm not saying that what that's

[00:04:25] what actually was happening, but what felt was happening was my parents have a bunch of things they

[00:04:30] like and a bunch of things they don't like. And they're more powerful than me. Yeah, and they're

[00:04:36] bigger and they can take away my phone. So I guess I just kind of have to go with whatever it is

[00:04:42] they're giving to me. So I kind of grew up with the thought of God has a bunch of stuff that he

[00:04:48] likes and thinks is good and how things should go. And a bunch of stuff that he doesn't like.

[00:04:54] And if I do the good things, that is righteousness, that was in my mind. And that will make him happy

[00:05:01] with me. And if I do the bad stuff that is sin and then he'll be mad at me. That was my general

[00:05:08] framework. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, totally. I feel like I had that exact same framework and it was

[00:05:13] almost like, you know, your view of God is, you know, Santa at the North Pole. And he's making

[00:05:19] goodness, you know, in the goodness workshop, the angels or the elves. And then there's this rival

[00:05:25] workshop downtown, you know, that's Satan's workshop. And he's like, oh, God's going to make good

[00:05:30] deeds. I'm going to make bad deeds. I'm going to make the deeds that are not what God likes. And it's

[00:05:36] just this very clear cut list, a very deeds based. And that's, that's the question I want to wrestle

[00:05:43] with is, you know, what is sin? Is it, is it merely a bunch of deeds? Is it merely a list of

[00:05:49] deeds that we're not supposed to commit or is it something different? Is it something more like a

[00:05:54] force, a dark destructive force or a military power? Or is it something like a poison, something

[00:06:01] that corrupts humanity from the inside out and corrupts creation itself? Is it a weapon? Is it a

[00:06:07] military strategy? Is it something that Satan and the forces of evil wield against us? I want to

[00:06:14] go deeper into this question. I think very often our typical understanding is sin is a verb,

[00:06:26] right? Sin is something that you do. Wrong deeds that you do disobedience rebellion. And that's

[00:06:32] really the extent of it. Would you say that a lot of people, I mean, you are a youth pastor just

[00:06:36] like me. Do you feel like a lot of people grow up with that mentality? I think they do and I think

[00:06:41] this is the primary use we have of the word sin. I mean, just think about the way that it gets

[00:06:47] thrown around. It's don't sin, avoid sin. Make sure you, you know, if you do that, that will be sin,

[00:06:55] something along those lines. It's always seemingly linked to a specific action that we're assigning

[00:07:05] moral badness to in the sense of what you're saying of some kind of disobedience or some kind of

[00:07:10] rebellion. Yeah, and I get why people believe that because to an extent it is very biblical like you've

[00:07:18] got the 10 commandments, right? You've got Bible verses that say, you know, do not lie to each other

[00:07:23] since you have taken off your old self with its practices, Colossians 3.9 or, you know, stealing,

[00:07:29] let the thief no longer steal but rather let him labor doing honest work with his own hands.

[00:07:33] That's just there's there's imperatives all over the Bible that tell you not to sin.

[00:07:39] We're not trying to start off this series by saying that you should just not care about not sinning,

[00:07:46] but I just I want to get to the deeper roots of this. So let's let's take a moment and jump into

[00:07:52] the source of sin, the roots of sin.

[00:08:02] So like we said, sin is often viewed as a verb, but I think we have to talk about sin as a noun.

[00:08:08] Sin as an entity. You can't fully understand sin without knowing where it came from just like you

[00:08:16] can't fully understand Star Wars if you don't watch the prequels, even if you hate the prequels,

[00:08:21] even if they're annoying, even if you know, Anakin, Hayden, Christian, since acting is so bad

[00:08:27] as Anakin Skywalker, you still have to wrap your head around those if you're going to understand

[00:08:32] the original trilogy and the sequel trilogy. And so the story that we have talked about often on

[00:08:38] the show, but it's central to understanding who we are as humans where we came from what life

[00:08:43] in existence and humanity is all about. You have to talk about the war in heaven. You have to

[00:08:49] talk about how at one point you had Yahweh, a god who created spiritual beings, angels as his

[00:08:56] servants, and then he has a plan to create humans and love them and make them a part of his

[00:09:02] family and care for them. And then there's a rebellion. You have some angels who go, hey,

[00:09:08] we don't like what Yahweh is doing. We could do it better. We should be in power. And then you

[00:09:15] have this great rebellion. And a sin is something that is connected intrinsically to this rebellion.

[00:09:23] It is a dark force. It is a corrupting disease when Adam and Eve eat that fruit in the garden.

[00:09:31] It's not God saying, hey, you broke my rule. How dare you? Now I'm going to make everyone's life

[00:09:37] miserable. I believe that in accepting the fruit from the serpent who wasn't just a snake, it's

[00:09:45] a demonic being. It's a part of the enemy's military forces by accepting his offer of not just

[00:09:54] fruit, but saying, hey, define good and evil on your own terms. Listen to us instead of Yahweh.

[00:10:02] Let us influence you. Let us speak into your life. What happens is I believe the very foundation

[00:10:10] of the earth, you know, the human genome, like the DNA structure of humans, everything becomes

[00:10:16] corrupted. And so I look at sin not just as a verb, something that you do. It's an entity, a dark

[00:10:23] force, a corrupting disease, a military strategy. And that bleeds into the verb. It bleeds into what

[00:10:30] we do because of the source, because of the dark forces, it leads to us doing wrong actions. It

[00:10:37] leads to disobedience and rebellion, but that disobedience and rebellion does not just exist in a

[00:10:42] vacuum. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. And so this is kind of a big shift in thinking for a lot

[00:10:48] of people. Can we point to places in scripture where sin is discussed as some kind of entity? I would

[00:11:00] say yes. One verse in particular that stands out to me where it speaks of sin as a corrupting force

[00:11:08] that is looking to advance in somebody's life, is the story of Cain and Abel where in Genesis chapter 4

[00:11:15] both of them present offerings to the Lord and Abel's is pleasing to God. And it says that the Lord

[00:11:21] looked with favor, unable and his offering but did not look that way on Cain's. And so Cain is very

[00:11:29] angry because of that. And God in verse 6 says it says the Lord said to Cain, why are you angry?

[00:11:36] Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not

[00:11:42] do what is right, sin is crouching at your door. It desires to have you but you must rule over it.

[00:11:52] That's not the way you would talk about in action. You wouldn't say, be careful, Cain.

[00:11:59] Murder is crouching at your door. That's not how you would normally talk about any kind of

[00:12:04] particular deed but rather the idea is there is a malevolent force that wants to have control over

[00:12:14] you and you must deny that force. You must push that away. So that's one place in particular I can

[00:12:20] think of where the Bible talks about sin in this way of not just you better decide not to sin Cain.

[00:12:28] I mean, obviously it doesn't say like I just do what you want. It's very clearly anti-sin in

[00:12:32] this passage but it speaks of sin as more than just a wrong thing he might do but speaks of a

[00:12:38] wrong way of thinking, a wrong spiritual force that sits under these wrong deeds that might come

[00:12:46] later and that is also what needs to be pushed away. It's not you must avoid its deeds, it's you

[00:12:54] must rule over it. You must put that force in submission to living a righteous and acceptable life

[00:13:02] before God. Yeah, no, that's really good. That's the perfect verse to go to and I think it's

[00:13:08] interesting because there's other parts of scripture where we get a description of the enemy,

[00:13:14] and this is something that I've learned from my seminary professor Gary Rochiers. He talks about

[00:13:21] when we talk about the enemy, we always think of this one guy named Satan or his name's actually

[00:13:28] Lucifer and Gary points out, actually his name biblically you're not going to find Lucifer as

[00:13:33] his name and Satan isn't his name either. It's actually just a title. The hilarious thing is that

[00:13:39] Satan doesn't actually get a name. The enemy, the chief demon, the guy who started the rebellion,

[00:13:44] you won't ever really find his name in scripture which Gary says is probably a dis by God,

[00:13:50] saying he's not important enough to give him a name but you'll find descriptions of the enemy

[00:13:56] right either the chief demon or the demonic forces as a whole and he'll say the enemy is like a

[00:14:03] roaring lion seeking who he will devour. So it's personifying the demons right but then the scripture

[00:14:11] also goes on to personify sin itself like you just read saying hey it's not just the enemy,

[00:14:16] it's not just the demons that crouch at the door like a lion it's sin itself waiting to devour you

[00:14:24] and the place that my brain goes to Brian honestly in this I feel like sometimes the way that we

[00:14:30] talk about scripture can be so rigid and systematic because we're afraid of saying anything that is

[00:14:37] kind of outside of the the bounds of what we know but the thing I've said over and over again

[00:14:42] is if you're a Christian you're literally a mortal trying to understand spirit beings from another

[00:14:48] dimension you know. And so in that when I think of sin I think I think of all of the classic movies

[00:14:56] where basically you have like a good kingdom right and you have a good king and his family

[00:15:02] and everything's great and then you have an evil enemy like a dark wizard and then they use

[00:15:09] their evil magic to like curse the land and oppress people and again magic is not real but I think

[00:15:18] it's it's an analogy even just think of the lion king like when scar takes over the pride lands

[00:15:24] what happens the the rain stops and everything withers up and dies and there's bones and skeletons

[00:15:31] everywhere because everything is dying off nothing's growing and and that analogy scars not even

[00:15:37] doing it it just happens but what I'm trying to say is did you get when I'm getting with like that

[00:15:41] magical analogy like a wizard saying I'm going to use my power to create something evil that will

[00:15:48] oppress you. I think there's something going on behind the scenes in the spiritual realm when

[00:15:53] it comes to sin where sin is much more tangible. It's this evil oppressive dark side star wars

[00:16:00] style force that is doing something to humanity that's that's my theory. Well it's interesting

[00:16:06] to make this comparison I think when we think about being faithful followers of Jesus and promoting

[00:16:15] his righteousness in the world. The Bible talks about how we are called to be his image bearers

[00:16:20] and we're talked about as being ambassadors of reconciliation you know that we we are promoting

[00:16:29] the person of Jesus and the character of Jesus. What we are bringing forward into the world

[00:16:36] is examples of who Jesus is and what he is like versus what we talk about when we talk about

[00:16:45] sin is not just Satan's character like it's not that sin flows out of him like he is the inventor

[00:16:54] of it yeah but it's rather a cause that he has gotten behind. I've got a verse on that so first

[00:17:04] John 3.8 he who does what is sinful is of the devil because the devil has been sinning from the

[00:17:12] beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work so that and that

[00:17:19] that's a strange passage to me in the sense of we know that there was a fallen angel so when we

[00:17:26] talk about from the beginning what do we mean from from the moment God created him or

[00:17:32] from the moment he chose to first rebel and then did that rebellion just cause some dark destructive

[00:17:39] cosmic force to enter into our reality that's the mysterious questions I I wonder about.

[00:17:45] It seems to me like sin is something Satan joins in on not something that he invents goodness

[00:17:56] is who God is and that's why it's very easy to point like we often point to Jesus as our example

[00:18:04] because if it is like Jesus it is good because Jesus is creating good Jesus is making good and all he

[00:18:13] is is good and he is the owner of good if that makes sense yeah sin kind of the concept of rebelling

[00:18:22] Satan may have been the first one to do it but he didn't create it he's simply twisting and

[00:18:29] corrupting and that kind of bent towards corruption is what he's joining in on not something he

[00:18:39] is inventing and then pushing out into the world does that idea make sense yeah it's not the analogy

[00:18:44] that we talked about of you know the the sin factory where he's coming up with you know like like

[00:18:50] Satan's not inventing new forms of sin it's it's the effect of that dark destructive force that

[00:18:56] is corrupting humanity leading them to new ways to sin you know there's ways that you can

[00:19:01] send with a smartphone that you couldn't you couldn't do a thousand years ago it wasn't like

[00:19:05] Satan you know got the the demon marketing team together saying hey kind of like how Steve

[00:19:10] Jobs you know has Apple it's not like Satan has these meetings where it's like hey let's develop

[00:19:15] new methods of how to sin it's more of humans have been corrupted to the core by this dark

[00:19:23] destructive force and the enemy is constantly leaning into that and manipulating that and

[00:19:28] working it into his military strategy is how that's how I put it because the whole reality like

[00:19:36] everything we experience is it is in the middle of a giant cosmic battle four souls and between

[00:19:46] good and evil you know and that's why most of our movies and stories are based on that very concept

[00:19:51] you know the epic battle between good and evil they're you know they're aping

[00:19:56] what is actually going on behind the scenes

[00:20:07] let's talk for a minute about some prime examples of sin there is a list of sins called the

[00:20:21] seven deadly sins and it's not actually like a biblical list where god says hey here's the

[00:20:27] seven sins to watch out for this is actually a church history thing people throughout the centuries

[00:20:33] of Christianity have looked to these sins and identified and said hey these are the sins that

[00:20:37] seem to mess you up the most and actually cover the widest range of types of sins so you've got

[00:20:44] pride or vain glory you've got greed or covetousness you've got lust or you know wrongly ordered

[00:20:53] sexual desire you've got envy gluttony wrath sloth these are the sins that have been identified

[00:21:02] as ones that are very destructive and I look at that list and I go yeah I can look at how each of

[00:21:08] these things in my life have caused massive hurt and pain to myself and the people around me

[00:21:16] and I think it's so helpful to recognize again these it's not just a list of hey here's seven

[00:21:21] deeds you shouldn't do or seven types of deeds you shouldn't do it's here's seven different

[00:21:28] symptoms of a really deadly disease if you see these symptoms in your life you need a doctor

[00:21:37] don't just go oh yeah I'm lasting boys will be boys it's just a part of you know it's just a

[00:21:42] part of human nature yeah that's the point human nature is corrupted by a disease we need a doctor

[00:21:51] yeah the broadness of those categories helps a lot in terms of being able to see how we can

[00:22:01] sin in new specific ways but not in new general ways I think about the idea of catching it just

[00:22:09] to catch something you can catch a ball in a ton of different ways you can use two hands you

[00:22:16] can have one arm way out but if you catch it in a new kind of like interesting position like

[00:22:21] you didn't invent the idea of catching you know and so it's like one thing can be done in a bunch

[00:22:26] of different ways and you use the example of there are all these ways we can sin with smartphones

[00:22:33] now new specific ways like people 200 years ago could not be prideful on social media yeah but they

[00:22:44] were certainly prideful we just have new outlets for doing those same things they couldn't be lustful

[00:22:51] on a porn website but today we can but they certainly were lustful and like in that way when

[00:22:58] Solomon says there's nothing new under the sun there's no new wrongdoing or anything like that

[00:23:05] we we found all sorts of new specific ways but the heart of man has remained the same and we've

[00:23:11] been bent and broken in the same direction for all of human history right you're you're never going

[00:23:18] to encounter you know you're reading the news and you'll see some horrible sin and go whoa that's a

[00:23:23] new sin you know that's that's something I've never seen before no you'll be able to trace the roots

[00:23:29] probably to one of these seven things and so I think that's interesting that sin seems to have

[00:23:33] limitations but within those limitations I mean just so many of those things I mean I'm just

[00:23:40] going through the list like lust oh my gosh the sex trafficking trade you know child sex trafficking

[00:23:46] like that that is such a gnarly manifestation of lust you look at greed you know just exploitation

[00:23:52] of people and and and and just robbing from people and and you know greedy corporations and CEOs

[00:24:00] like just just putting people down because of their own greed you know pride like just the the

[00:24:07] original sin as many say you know that the the idea was that the the demon you know the the angel

[00:24:15] that rebelled had a thought of I can do this better than Yahweh it's it was his pride that literally

[00:24:23] started everything and you know wrath and anger you look at that and that's that's where wars come

[00:24:29] from it's it's people not being able to move past their differences but instead just boiling over

[00:24:37] to the point of rage and then to the point of violence and death um I think for a minute let's talk

[00:24:44] about sin as rebellion and and you know Brian why don't you give us a quick recap in that framework

[00:24:51] of what happened in the Garden of Eden yeah when we think about the Garden of Eden we think about

[00:24:58] humanity being created in a perfect state with perfect relationship with God

[00:25:05] with seemingly boundless opportunity just every arrow is pointing up like things are great

[00:25:13] work is fun relationships are unencumbered with lies and shame and confusion and misunderstandings

[00:25:22] like everything is just lights out perfect 10 out of 10 no notes would eat at Eden again

[00:25:29] like they just have that kind of perfect five star rating going on yeah in everything

[00:25:35] and part of what God creates is what we refer to as the tree of the knowledge of good evil

[00:25:42] and in part what it seems that God is doing with that is he is giving something of an opportunity

[00:25:53] to opt in or opt out of life with God as uninterrupted king yeah so though the only rule that God

[00:26:03] gives to Adam and Eve is do not take from this tree and it seems that what he is saying when God

[00:26:11] says don't partake of the fruit of this tree is hey let me be the one who remains rightful king

[00:26:20] let me be the one who remains in charge and look because I'm extremely generous and because

[00:26:25] I'm extremely loving if you don't want that arrangement anymore you don't have to have it

[00:26:32] this tree will stand here as the opt out button tech stop to unsubscribe you can do all of that with

[00:26:38] this tree if you so choose but know that if you do opt out of my leadership what you are bringing

[00:26:47] into your world is death and destruction and chaos so he he lovingly creates the option because

[00:26:55] he is not one that purely forces are obedience and forces our relationship with him yeah but also in

[00:27:04] love he tells us if you do decide to walk away from me here is what is going to happen and not like

[00:27:11] a spooky like who kind of like big like scary show but just here are the cold heart facts this is

[00:27:17] what you will get if you choose to rebel against my leadership and what we end up seeing the story

[00:27:25] that we very famously know Adam and Eve choose rebellion and choose to be the definers of good

[00:27:31] and evil on their own yeah man it's a great breakdown yeah when you were talking through that it got

[00:27:37] me thinking about again how easy it is to go back to that framework of rules and breaking rules

[00:27:46] and and it can almost seem to a lot of people growing up in the church like God is petty I think of

[00:27:53] this one math teacher I had he's a great guy now but he was young and he was the assistant math

[00:28:00] teacher I don't know how normal that was but he he was so like I was like a power trip thing you

[00:28:06] know where these freshman high school kids and he was like obsessed with make sure you bring your

[00:28:12] ruler make sure you bring your protractor and if we forgot one of those things he would be like

[00:28:17] you broke my rule you get marked down you're gonna lose points your grades going down

[00:28:22] and that that kind of pettiness is how we can view the tree of the knowledge of good and evil God

[00:28:27] just being like I'm gonna make this perfect paradise but then I'm gonna just have this rule and

[00:28:32] if they if I swear if they break my rule I will destroy the world to the point that I have to

[00:28:40] go and die to fix it like that that's just so strange right to frame it in that way but that's

[00:28:45] how that's how a lot of people think of that that's how for one that's how atheist think of it

[00:28:50] you know you'll go on Reddit and read through threads of people making fun of Christians

[00:28:56] because that's how stupid they view it as like why would God even do that and

[00:29:01] I view it as if I have a seller and I know that there's like wolves with rabies in the seller

[00:29:09] my rule to not open the seller isn't me being petty it's me saying I know what will happen

[00:29:16] if you open that door and that's that I think is the proper framing God knew what would happen

[00:29:24] and you can get into the ethical and moral question of why would God allow the tree to be in the

[00:29:29] garden and we're not gonna touch that here but it's a very good question to ask but it does beg

[00:29:38] one misreading to be cast away one of the things that happens is we read the book of Genesis

[00:29:48] and because it begins with the literal words in the beginning we assume that everything in Genesis

[00:29:57] happened before everything else in the Bible and that kind of chronology isn't necessarily true

[00:30:05] and it's not the best way to view the book of Genesis or really to view many books of the Bible there's

[00:30:10] a lot of interlocking that's happening of the timing of different things if you read the Bible

[00:30:17] from beginning to end the way that we currently have it here in America or here in modern day is

[00:30:23] maybe a better way to say it we are that would not be reading chronologically that doesn't get

[00:30:30] you from beginning to end in that order so it is very much worth pointing out that when we get to

[00:30:36] Genesis chapter three which is what contains the story of Adam and Eve choosing against the

[00:30:41] leadership of God the rebellion of Satan and the other angels that have fallen with him has

[00:30:49] previously happened to that point so rebellion is already a thing very much in motion on the spiritual

[00:30:59] level by the time we get to Adam and Eve choosing rebellion opting out of God's leadership so to speak

[00:31:08] that is not the beginning of rebellion we read about that in our structure of the Bible much earlier

[00:31:15] than we seem to get indications of angels choosing to turn away from God when exactly before

[00:31:23] the fall of man that happens very much up for debate but very clearly there is already a serpent

[00:31:31] yeah who is not not quite a serpent not quite a serpent but standing in some kind of demonic

[00:31:38] representation who is saying join the rebellion come be against God with us so to speak

[00:31:46] so they're not the ones inventing the concept of rebelling they're joining something very much in

[00:31:53] progress so when I bring that up simply to say the way that I often hear it phrased a very common

[00:31:59] criticism I hear of Christianity is God is doing to me what he did to Adam and Eve

[00:32:08] he made us foolish finite dumb curious tells us not to eat this one thing and then expects us not

[00:32:18] to eat it and then we fast forward to today and it's you made me this way and then I go off and do

[00:32:23] all of these bad things and now you're going to be mad at me forever and it's not that God purely

[00:32:30] created humans in this place of rebellion has never existed and now you might be the one that

[00:32:38] starts it it's rather that there is this destructive force moving as an undercurrent throughout all

[00:32:46] of human history stretching back all the way to Adam and Eve yeah that that is a very very good

[00:32:55] assessment and a really good reminder because I agree with everything you said I think it's easy

[00:33:02] to almost view it as Adam and Eve were the ones that broke everything instead of seeing them as

[00:33:10] victims of this war that was going on before they ate that fruit you know and that's not to minimize

[00:33:17] our responsibility when it comes to sin that's not to just say oh the devil made me do it

[00:33:22] we we play a part in our sins a massive part that we make our choices absolutely but we have to

[00:33:31] especially this is helpful when it comes to judging others when you see others sinning

[00:33:37] when you see others making horrible horrible choices when it comes to their family or their marriage

[00:33:44] or their addictions it's so easy to just see them as a sinner right and I I think going all the

[00:33:53] way back to Genesis three we need to see humanity as a victim of the true enemy people are not the

[00:34:01] enemy they're victims of the true enemy and it's important it's important to remember that

[00:34:16] I do think I want to harp on that idea of personal responsibility for a second I know that when I

[00:34:32] give gospel presentations of here is what it means to believe the gospel will you choose to believe

[00:34:39] that today or not one of the things that I like to say that I think is a helpful way to frame it

[00:34:45] is that Adam and Eve have chosen rebellion and we have all ratified their decision

[00:34:54] that our rebellion is kind of agreeing with Adam and even saying yes you were right

[00:35:01] it was good for us to push away the leadership of God and that's ultimately I know we're going

[00:35:08] to talk about this more as the series goes on but that's one of the things we need to grapple with

[00:35:15] when it comes to our sinfulness and it's why this idea of sinfulness is worth exploring on a

[00:35:22] deeper level because if sin is just did you do the bad things or not then that can feel very petty

[00:35:29] that can feel very simplistic that can feel like God is just kind of mean sometimes but if we view

[00:35:36] our sin as deciding we don't want God's leadership and proving that decision by opting to become

[00:35:46] our own leaders now it begins to make a little more sense why God deals with sin so sternly and why he

[00:35:57] makes such a big deal out of whether or not we move towards sin because once you're in the category

[00:36:04] of rebellion rebellion is an extremely tricky thing to manage and a really really difficult thing to stop

[00:36:17] and that brings us to the end of today's episode I'm Aaron Savado I've been here with my co-host

[00:36:22] Brian Higgins and it's been a privilege to explore the depths of sin and grace with you all

[00:36:27] I really hope today's discussion not only provided a deeper theological understanding but also

[00:36:32] a personal reflection on how this impacts your daily walk with Christ as we part ways I encourage

[00:36:38] you to think on the profound need for grace in our lives and how understanding our fallen nature

[00:36:45] can actually draw us closer to God's love and redemption remember theology isn't just about knowledge

[00:36:51] it's about transformation of our lives and relationships thank you for joining us on the Goodline

[00:36:57] podcast if you found this episode enlightening or insightful or helpful don't forget to share it with

[00:37:02] friends or hey leave a review that would help so much and also if you listen on Spotify you can

[00:37:09] actually leave a comment on this episode man we would love to hear from you guys we would love

[00:37:15] to hear how this episode blessed you or spoke to you or if you've got pushback or follow up questions

[00:37:20] man we would love that stuff so even if you don't listen on Spotify you can go over to Spotify find

[00:37:26] the episode and drop your comment there until next time keep seeking keep questioning and keep

[00:37:32] growing in your faith in Jesus Christ God bless