[00:00:00] Welcome to The Good Voice Collective, the show where we talk about culture, discuss theology, learn new perspectives.
[00:00:09] And grow in Christ. Each one of us has unique voice, a unique perspective and we want to use our voices for good.
[00:00:16] We're the GoodLion Interns.
[00:00:17] And you're listening to The Good Voice Collective.
[00:00:20] Hey everybody, thanks for joining our collective as we have a discussion about racial reconciliation and social justice.
[00:00:43] Today we're just going to have a little talk. We have some questions that we want to ask each other and just to be open and honest about what we're feeling about this time period.
[00:00:52] And what we as a church can do to bring unity and to fight segregation.
[00:00:58] So guys, thanks so much for joining me in this conversation. I'm so excited.
[00:01:09] So with all this stuff that's been going on, what are some of the feelings that you guys are getting and what are some of the things that you've been experiencing that you haven't really
[00:01:18] noticed before. I know just some of the stuff that happened with George Floyd and just a mod, our very and Brianna Taylor, like some of these like really big things have happened that have really opened a lot of people's eyes to kind of just seeing this for the first time.
[00:01:33] And so I'm really interested just to hear like what your perspective has been on all of this and like how you seem this effect the church.
[00:01:41] I think that's a really great point. I've found that just seeing all the stuff going down. There's a part of me that finds it really discouraging, but I think I mainly find it really enlightening because my heart does break for the whole of the black community having to still fight this battle.
[00:01:58] And I've found that it's been a really great time to sit down and just be educated and speak with a community that's hurting and learn more about how I can help.
[00:02:09] And not just be not racist, but be anti-racism and join the fight and be in an ally in the best way that I can.
[00:02:16] I think it's been really interesting for me just because this podcast is kind of my main outlet for interacting with that situation because I'm not in the US right now.
[00:02:27] I think it's really interesting to see how it's affecting your guy in those lives and how you guys are happy to process it. And I think I'm kind of like curiously processing it through you guys, so that's been interesting for me.
[00:02:39] I think it's just been really enlightening because it's something I hadn't just thought about a lot before or something that's not talked a lot about in the church.
[00:02:46] And it's interesting, especially with the coming up now in this time of life and it's seasoned with the pandemic and quarantine and everything.
[00:02:54] We're kind of just locked up with ourselves, so it's something I've been thinking a lot about with myself, but it's going to hard.
[00:02:59] It's been good with this podcast, being able to talk about it with you guys and having conversations about it, but at the same time like there's not we can't just gather the church and talk about it in that way.
[00:03:09] I'm really like talking about it with the people that I normally balance things off of in life.
[00:03:14] I'm definitely glad that it's something that was been brought up and that's been brought to my attention.
[00:03:19] And today it's an opportunity to know the church, but it's also just been difficult and interesting trying to work through that during this time with the lack of communication.
[00:03:27] It's just processing that kind of all my own.
[00:03:30] It's really good.
[00:03:31] So this time period for me has not been super easy. It's actually been really difficult.
[00:03:42] I'm feeling very raw right now and I think a lot of it is just some of the fear and the things that I'm personally having to do with, just being an African American myself.
[00:03:54] And I think a lot of this is fear of just my family of you know, this affecting us and just the fear of like potential pain and things that like even just the just dealing with past pains and things just coming back to mind that you know,
[00:04:11] I've been through and just in hurts and stuff. And so it's just been a really interesting process.
[00:04:17] I think I've also just been really feeling so sad lately as a Christian, just the thought of even having a second where I haven't been thinking about where people's hearts might be at right now.
[00:04:30] And I think a lot of the responses, these people that we're seeing is responsive just to fear and pain and like hurt on both sides.
[00:04:40] And I just, I'm really like, I'm just heartbroken by this thing that we've covered up for years, you know, in our society.
[00:04:49] But I'm also really excited about talking about it. I'm excited that the conversation is coming up and I'm ready for, you know, I'm ready for change.
[00:04:57] And so I'm sad, but I'm also excited. So I'm kind of all over the place right now, but I'm really thankful for the people around me who've been comforting me in my sad moments.
[00:05:06] And those who have been encouraging me in the moments when I get excited about, you know, what God's going to be doing in our nation and stuff. So yeah.
[00:05:14] Victoria, it's interesting that you say that you're both sad and excited. I think that was kind of my response as well to this.
[00:05:23] But maybe for different reasons, I grew up in a metropolitan area outside of the US. And I grew up with a lot of black kids and so for me, like, I just did not have that concept of racism so much in my little mind growing up.
[00:05:40] And so this whole situation in me has kind of been like discovering that the bubonic plague is back or something. You know, like something that you thought was locked away in history has kind of come back to life.
[00:05:52] You know, I mean, which is kind of hilarious considering the pandemic situation. You know, it's like those things that you think would never happen again, or have been solved once and for all. It's like, you hear about stuff and you're like, okay, that's, you know, far away maybe in the world somewhere in some dark corner or somewhere.
[00:06:09] In the past, but just to hear to have this kind of come out and be this this rising issue just it is so sad. It's just it's like we think okay we're over this, but the reality is that the heart of the world is so dark without Jesus and it's never going to be over until he makes everything new again.
[00:06:30] And then as for excitement, I think the other thing that I thought was it's almost like, you know, a night steps off the pages of history and tells you there's dragons to slay again. Like, I grew up admiring the heroes of the emancipation and civil rights movement era people just like they were amazing and so noble and I feel like there's something that matters for us to do that we can stand up and we can be like those people we can, you know, use our words in our minds.
[00:06:59] And I just, that's what makes me excited about this situation.
[00:07:29] The whole topic and online I've been asked how I feel about all this since I'm part of a minority group.
[00:07:36] I am Mexican American and I don't really know what to say except that I always thought that you can't generalize everybody.
[00:07:44] I've had a handful of maybe that experiences or feeling like somebody is discriminating me for me in Mexican, but it's even a handful of times and I know that not everybody's that way.
[00:07:59] My stance is usually fresh up the haters and just hold on to the good people that respect me.
[00:08:05] I definitely feel heavy right now. I'm someone who tends to take a little while of process things so it's taking me a few days to kind of just take in everything that's going on and get a handle on how I feel better all.
[00:08:17] So aside from obviously just feeling you know heavy sad and angry over everything that's going on, it has taken me a little bit to kind of just understand how I'm feeling.
[00:08:27] Especially with the conflicting stories in the media and events and things being told different ways, you know play different ways for the further you know the agenda is all that it's been hard for me to really you know cash out what's real and what's true.
[00:08:42] I think I've definitely felt a lot of confusion or just about how I should be feeling or how you know how some people would tell me that I should be feeling but I think ultimately I'm just trying to take everything in rationally because the fact is that people are hurting people are being hurt.
[00:08:56] And I just want to be able to understand where they're coming from, you know understand and empathize and just better educate myself to know what I can do, how I can help bring a change in this time.
[00:09:09] Yeah, I think this family kind of like I don't think I've grown up with people talking about it a lot. It's been more like something you learn in history.
[00:09:17] And so I think it's just facing the reality that we still have it today and just trying to process it and just trying to learn and listen.
[00:09:24] But I was going to ask Holly, it made me curious of how how does racism like play out in the UK? Like it's at the same as the US or yeah.
[00:09:35] I think that's a really good question and I wanted to look into that with my Black Pastor friends here because I think that would be really neat.
[00:09:46] At the same time it's kind of a huge thing and I'm like kind of don't want to dig into it, you know what I mean? Like it's kind of, it can be kind of a mine field.
[00:09:54] And I think those guys would be the best people to talk it out with and at the same time, I don't even know if I know the right questions to ask, you know.
[00:10:01] It's an interesting topic I think. I don't know that Andre has told me the Black Lives Matter activity in the States has also sparked more racial awareness in the Netherlands for sure.
[00:10:12] They deal with kind of tense racial relations because the Netherlands has colonies in Indonesia, back to me.
[00:10:20] I'm pretty sure that's where it is. And so there are a lot of people of color in the Netherlands as well.
[00:10:27] And they definitely experience a divide there on that stuff, especially because a lot of those people of color grow up in cultural communities that have really strong cultural heritage.
[00:10:39] And so even I met a girl actually when I was on my trip there these last few weeks.
[00:10:44] And she said she grew up in one of those communities, so she would say that she grew up in the Netherlands but she's not Dutch.
[00:10:51] And that's really crazy because I mean that's what it says on our passport like culturally though. She has a really strong identity as being an islander.
[00:11:00] And so it's really interesting to see that play out there. I'm sure there is something like that here because of England's relationship with Jamaica.
[00:11:09] We have lots of people of Jamaican heritage, especially around the London area.
[00:11:13] So it would be really interesting to ask them, but yeah, I don't think it's very volatile here right now, like it is in the States.
[00:11:20] I think there is probably some level where that is an issue, but at the same time race relations are a little bit older here as well. There's a lot more history and it's not quite the same as the States where you have a lot less history overall to deal with.
[00:11:36] A lot more has been compacted into a short history of the US and your puzzle, a lot deeper roots. So it's kind of a different question. I feel like thanks for sharing.
[00:11:45] Yeah, that was really cool. It is really interesting to see just like the contrast that you get when it comes to having the time and just yeah because like the US really like 200 and something years old like 240 years and something like that.
[00:12:00] And so it's just like yeah, it's like a lot of this is very, very new. Like I remember talking to my mom about my grandparents and like my grandparents never learned how to read or write. They didn't know how to do it. They always signed exes for their names just because like their parents before them were more than likely probably still like they're from the south, but like more than likely they were probably slaves or maybe their grandparents were slaves and they just didn't have those things passed down to them.
[00:12:27] And it's just crazy to think like how recent that was like, you know, that is just it's not that many generations long that all that stuff happened. So like yeah, it's just really interesting how it's still very much around but it hasn't been that long at the same time. Like we feel like it's just like so long ago.
[00:12:43] But like my mom was talking about how when she was a kid that was when all the silver right stuff was happening. Like she was alive during that time period. She's the same age as like some of the kids who were a part of like this church bombing that happened and like a bunch of little black girls, you know, got affected by that.
[00:13:00] It's just crazy to think about like it's very much like some of these people were still around when people like when there was deep segregation where you can use certain toilets and like strength out of sinks. And you know, it's like yeah, it would make sense that we still have some stuff going on because it's very it's still very recent. It's not it hasn't been that long. So a real quick this goes with the last question slavery was abolishing England in 1833 and the foundation of the United States was 1776.
[00:13:29] So you know, you do the math and you think that's kind of relatively it's just kind of weird to think about anyway we can move on.
[00:13:36] Yeah, that is really interesting. It's good to know that and kind of have a reference for when everything happened because then I don't know just like when you think about people like getting through like healing through things or like people like changing mindsets like when you know the time period.
[00:13:49] I kind of helped you better understand like why some of the stuff is going on that is you know, it's good.
[00:13:54] I want to ask has anything in this cultural moment that we're living through right now caused you to learn something new or to change or to grow in any way.
[00:14:15] So something that I feel like I've grown in specifically and it's not easy to say these words out of my mouth, but I just I feel like I've grown in the way that I have cared and loved people.
[00:14:28] Like I for some reason before all of the stuff was going on, I didn't realize how self focused I was and so I just I felt like in these last few days.
[00:14:43] I was able to encounter people and love people unconditionally, love them despite the fact that they don't agree with me.
[00:14:49] Love them despite the fact that they're saying things that I think are absolutely ridiculous.
[00:14:55] And I think that that is something that a lot of people don't really have the chance to always think of and go through.
[00:15:03] I've been so thankful for it like it's been such a precious time of just listening to the voice of God and like praying and reading his word and just really saturating myself in the word of God just so that I am able and prepared to be able to encounter these people well.
[00:15:19] And so yeah, I just I feel like I have grown in that a lot and in my relationships with people who I've actually had pretty damage relationships with before hand and so I feel like this has been a really awesome opportunity to grow in the way that I do life with community and how just being more vulnerable being more open being bold and ways that are wise and just just things like that.
[00:15:54] Shobby brought up that you know, you think about this as history like of course like slavery was a thing segregation was a thing racism was a thing but like I've never really thought of it as being a modern thing because I'm not really experienced it in my life and you know the black people I've known throughout my life growing up like they've never seemed any different to me than other people.
[00:16:18] I see a lot of just on social media and things.
[00:16:22] Like, you can't be color blind.
[00:16:23] You have to be aware that the black community is like,
[00:16:26] what we're focusing on now,
[00:16:27] and I don't, I'm so confused about everything
[00:16:30] that's going on because I'm really assuming
[00:16:32] that that is kind of like how I grow up
[00:16:34] as what people call color blind,
[00:16:36] like not seeing color at all.
[00:16:38] Because when I'm, like if I'm introduced
[00:16:40] to a black individual, that's not my first impression
[00:16:43] of them.
[00:16:43] I probably won't even cross my mind
[00:16:45] that they're different skin tone than I am.
[00:16:47] And it's been really interesting to me
[00:16:49] because I was very confused about how I felt
[00:16:52] when it was really big at the beginning
[00:16:54] like a beginning of June.
[00:16:56] And I didn't know what was going on.
[00:16:58] And I realized that I was so confused
[00:17:00] because I didn't understand the culture
[00:17:05] of the black community,
[00:17:07] because when George Floyd was killed,
[00:17:10] and that was a horrible, horrible thing.
[00:17:12] Like I thought it was, you know,
[00:17:13] it's a horrific how this person was unjustly murdered.
[00:17:19] But I remember realizing that I had been so confused
[00:17:23] because like for me,
[00:17:24] I felt like I was kind of observing
[00:17:26] and it doesn't outside her
[00:17:27] because I'm not part of the black community.
[00:17:29] And when he was killed,
[00:17:31] the black community kind of rose up
[00:17:32] and everyone was very mad
[00:17:34] and everyone was getting loud.
[00:17:36] And I realized that it was kind of weird for me
[00:17:38] because for me that would be like if, like,
[00:17:41] so I have blonde hair.
[00:17:43] And for me it was kind of like,
[00:17:45] if a person with blonde hair had been killed,
[00:17:48] like I wouldn't get mad about that
[00:17:50] because I don't like actually connect like,
[00:17:53] you know, I don't make like a physical connection with that.
[00:17:56] But I mean, that's obviously like a not good example
[00:17:58] because there's no blonde community.
[00:18:01] There's no history and culture within that.
[00:18:04] But I realized that's kind of where my mindset was
[00:18:06] that I was just so, my mindset was so different
[00:18:10] when it comes to physical appearance.
[00:18:12] Like I just really didn't have any kind of perspective
[00:18:15] on the black community and black culture
[00:18:18] because like I don't wake up in the morning thinking
[00:18:20] that I'm white.
[00:18:21] Like it's not part of my identity at all.
[00:18:23] Like I know it, I'm aware of the fact
[00:18:27] and I like just like I'm aware of the fact
[00:18:29] that my name is Corey or that I have blonde hair
[00:18:31] or my favorite color's green.
[00:18:33] I don't know, it's just something about me
[00:18:34] but it's not part of my identity.
[00:18:36] So it was really kind of eye-opening for me
[00:18:38] when I realized that my mindset is so different
[00:18:41] from other people's mindsets
[00:18:43] and that for some people, like that really does matter to them.
[00:18:47] And like these people, their feelings are real
[00:18:49] and they're grief and they're hurt is real.
[00:18:52] And it was just something that I really hadn't understood
[00:18:54] up to that point because I had been so outside of that.
[00:18:57] And so it's been something just for me to consider
[00:18:59] just people's different viewpoints
[00:19:01] and people's different histories.
[00:19:02] And it really was kind of like a culture shock for me
[00:19:05] because I don't think of them as different cultures.
[00:19:07] I think of as a American and all this human,
[00:19:09] I never really took skin tone into consideration.
[00:19:13] But that's been eye-opening for me
[00:19:15] that it's more important to a lot of people
[00:19:18] than I would have thought
[00:19:19] because I've grown up not thinking
[00:19:21] that it is important to what human being is
[00:19:24] or just the value of individual.
[00:19:27] So that was really interesting for me to discover
[00:19:30] that there's just such a cultural difference
[00:19:33] between the black and white communities
[00:19:35] that I just didn't realize was there.
[00:19:37] I think that's really interesting when you say
[00:19:39] that it's not part of your cultural background
[00:19:43] to see color because that's what it is, right?
[00:19:46] That's part of white culture, some white culture
[00:19:49] is to be colorblind.
[00:19:50] Like I think it's such a good thing
[00:19:52] that when the United States was founded
[00:19:55] that they had so many immigrants coming from Europe, right?
[00:19:58] Because the whole idea was,
[00:19:59] it doesn't matter who you were in the old world.
[00:20:02] You can be whoever you want to be in the new world.
[00:20:04] And I think for a lot of white people,
[00:20:07] that's something that we've kind of like taken for granted.
[00:20:10] And that's just part of the worldview.
[00:20:12] It doesn't matter who you are.
[00:20:14] Or it doesn't matter where you come from
[00:20:16] or what you look like or what your background is
[00:20:18] but matters who you want to be
[00:20:19] and it matters who you are on the inside.
[00:20:21] And it matters what you do
[00:20:23] because you're kind of in control
[00:20:25] of your destiny sort of thing.
[00:20:27] And the problem with that is that then there's another group
[00:20:31] of people who don't think that way
[00:20:33] and we have to take that into account.
[00:20:34] We can't just be like, well, this is my worldview.
[00:20:36] So I'm just going to believe
[00:20:38] keep believing this until it's true kind of.
[00:20:40] You have to be aware of people who have a racist worldview
[00:20:44] and people who have a worldview
[00:20:46] where they see injustice based on the color of skin.
[00:20:50] Because that is a relevant view.
[00:20:53] You know, I can't just say,
[00:20:54] because this is how I want the world to be.
[00:20:56] This is how it is.
[00:20:58] I have to say, show me what you see through your eyes.
[00:21:01] You know, show me what is going on in your world
[00:21:04] so that hopefully we can have the same dream
[00:21:07] of like nobody gets judged by the color of their skin
[00:21:10] but by the quality of their character right
[00:21:12] and what they want to do in the world.
[00:21:14] It's hard to step outside of your own worldview
[00:21:17] because sometimes you can't even see it.
[00:21:19] You know, like you're saying, Corey,
[00:21:21] like my worldview as I don't even think about
[00:21:23] the color of my skin, right?
[00:21:25] It's hard to step outside of that
[00:21:27] and step into somebody's shoes
[00:21:28] who has to think about that every single day.
[00:21:31] I think that's such a really good point too
[00:21:33] about just kind of clashing worldviews
[00:21:35] because that's going to happen no matter the topic.
[00:21:37] Like, not even just in the topic of race,
[00:21:40] but it's going to happen with every individual you meet
[00:21:43] because every individual is individual
[00:21:46] and has their own individual worldviews
[00:21:48] and what they've grown up believing.
[00:21:49] And that isn't that what's so important
[00:21:52] about communication is to understand.
[00:21:55] I mean, whether or not someone is right or wrong,
[00:21:59] whether one worldview is, you know, it's right
[00:22:01] in the other's wrong.
[00:22:02] That doesn't matter when it comes to communication
[00:22:06] because I can hold my own opinions,
[00:22:09] but I can still listen to yours.
[00:22:11] And that's, I think that's a really important thing
[00:22:13] that we need to, it's a skill that we need
[00:22:15] to learn to develop as humans and especially as Christians
[00:22:18] to be able to just communicate and connect with people
[00:22:22] without, you know, without clashing
[00:22:24] because worldviews are going to be clashing wherever you go.
[00:22:27] So I think it's really great that we do get to talk
[00:22:30] about these kind of things right now.
[00:22:32] I think it's good that we're all thinking
[00:22:33] about these kinds of things because whether or not
[00:22:36] it pertains to race, whether or not it pertains to,
[00:22:38] you know, something as deep and painful
[00:22:42] and hard to navigate as this topic.
[00:22:44] It's important to be able to connect with each other
[00:22:46] like we're doing now and to realize that just to be aware
[00:22:50] of that there are other mindsets out there
[00:22:53] and there are other individuals and other feelings
[00:22:55] out there and we really need to take that into account,
[00:22:57] you know, because we want to treat everyone with respect.
[00:22:59] And we want to respect everyone's worldviews
[00:23:01] even if we don't agree with them.
[00:23:03] So that's been, I've just been doing a lot of listening
[00:23:06] and learning in this time because a lot of it
[00:23:08] I really had no experience with it all.
[00:23:10] But I am glad that we're able to talk about this right now
[00:23:13] because I've learned a lot over the past two months.
[00:23:15] I was gonna take a tangent and talk about how
[00:23:19] that kind of pertains to Christian life in general
[00:23:21] because really we have to be able to step outside of ourselves
[00:23:25] and connect with people like that's what God's made us to do.
[00:23:27] And it's kind of what we need to do
[00:23:28] to fulfill the great commission as well.
[00:23:30] I don't want to do you realize
[00:23:31] so let's just move on to the next question.
[00:23:33] I was just gonna say something to that effect
[00:23:35] so like what you're not hauling, Corey, what you guys were saying.
[00:23:38] I definitely, I feel what you were saying, Corey,
[00:23:41] just like, growing up, I didn't see my sinkler as a problem
[00:23:44] because I was unaware of it because I didn't need to be.
[00:23:47] Like I didn't cause any problems for me.
[00:23:49] There wasn't any issues
[00:23:49] and that's our worldview
[00:23:52] and other people's worldviews are different from that.
[00:23:54] But I think we need to be able to widen our worldview
[00:23:57] to contain the fact that it is an issue for other people
[00:24:01] and like you were saying, holy,
[00:24:02] I think that does speak to broader issues
[00:24:05] in Christian culture and the modern church
[00:24:07] is that the fact that we just kind of take our worldview as our own
[00:24:11] and we just kind of live in the ignorance as bliss
[00:24:14] kind of mindset.
[00:24:15] Never tamed so a lot of things like really any group of people
[00:24:19] who are in a minority,
[00:24:21] who are different than the majority of people.
[00:24:23] If we're not aware of it,
[00:24:25] I don't think the church is a good enough job
[00:24:26] at making itself aware of it
[00:24:28] and keeping that at the forefront of our minds
[00:24:31] and our thoughts and just like not just acknowledging it
[00:24:35] for just one day of an international awareness
[00:24:38] and then forgetting about it and moving on.
[00:24:40] Yeah, I think that's all great stuff to be aware of
[00:24:43] and think about but I kind of wanted to bring it back
[00:24:46] a little bit to what Victoria was saying about how
[00:24:50] this is all still very new and just like in recent events,
[00:24:55] we see that there's still a battle at hand.
[00:24:58] And I feel like at this moment in time
[00:25:00] there's so many different opinions
[00:25:01] just like you were saying kind
[00:25:03] and everything in social justice can become highly politicized
[00:25:07] but stripping this down
[00:25:08] and just sort of viewing this through the eyes of Christians.
[00:25:12] Wholehearted Jesus lovers and Bible believers,
[00:25:15] how can we continue to fight for justice
[00:25:27] for minorities here in America?
[00:25:34] Victoria, this specifically is a question for you
[00:25:36] but do you believe that the church is too silent
[00:25:38] about these issues or can even be told
[00:25:41] structively learn and fight for this out of respect for black cultures.
[00:25:46] What is the next step? Like what have you seen from churches that have left you feeling empowered
[00:25:53] and proud of the church and how they're handling these issues?
[00:25:56] Yeah, I think that's a really cool question because in the church like there's just
[00:26:01] tends to be this like I don't know. We sometimes I think people in general just make social justice
[00:26:06] sometimes look up the little thing and I really don't believe it should be political.
[00:26:10] Like I think we should fight for social justice because you know we want justice and we want to see
[00:26:15] justice happen in general and that should be the heart of every man, you know and especially every
[00:26:19] Christian like to fight you know to bring justice and to bring peace. And there have been times in my life
[00:26:26] like I remember being a kid and there was a kid in my school and went to a private Christian school
[00:26:31] and the kid had called me the in-word and I was like so hardbroken like that really really like
[00:26:36] destroyed me. He was saying in a way that was just really hurtful and just basically saying like you
[00:26:41] know black people are always like this and like why are you being such an inward and all this stuff
[00:26:46] and I told the teacher about it and like she didn't do anything about it. She talked to him one time
[00:26:51] but like he just got kept saying things to me that were super hurtful and and I talked to them
[00:26:56] multiple times about it and they just like really didn't stand up for me and they're like well this is an
[00:27:00] issue between him and his parents and they get all this stuff and like if he keeps saying that we don't
[00:27:04] really have anything we can do and and that was really painful like that really hurt because they just
[00:27:09] felt like they were just opening the score to allow him to just continue to bully you know that was
[00:27:13] awful and something I would never forget was like one of the girls in the school like literally
[00:27:18] went up to choose like if you ever say this about her ever again I'm gonna beat you up and like you
[00:27:23] know like kind of kind of threatening it. No it was a very nice thing was kind of bad but at the same time
[00:27:27] I was so thankful for it like after that all my friends worked like together they were just like yeah
[00:27:31] we're not gonna stand for him doing this if he ever does just do it again like like we're
[00:27:35] gonna be really upset and something's gonna happen like we're gonna fight that was like okay let's not
[00:27:39] fight but thank you so really thankful and he never bullied me again after that just because my friends
[00:27:45] and the people around me who saw just this one person coming and attacking me like they stood up
[00:27:50] for me and they stood beside me and I remember just that's always been my picture the picture in my
[00:27:55] head when I'm seeing people standing up for justice I'm seeing people walking hand in hand with
[00:27:59] people who are so broken in hurt because people are coming after them you know and that's
[00:28:04] something I would like to see in the church more often is that we just become like this I don't
[00:28:09] know like the hand that people can grab onto and just walk with and like we tell them our struggles
[00:28:14] and we say when you're going through this I'm gonna be next to you and we're going to help you walk
[00:28:19] through this and help you get the healing that you need and we're gonna we're gonna love like you
[00:28:24] and that's just something though I think we're getting better out kind of seeing this experience
[00:28:27] just seeing people going out and praying and you know just on the streets and talking about
[00:28:31] health declaring peace and talking about how they want to be there for the African American community
[00:28:36] or the black community right now during this time that's been that's been really impactful for me
[00:28:41] like that just like made my heart so happy to see people in the church stepping out and doing that
[00:28:47] and that brought me a lot of feeling and I've been working on this like a long time you know there's
[00:28:51] just been things that happen that have been so hurtful but when you're walking hand in hand with
[00:28:56] people like that I don't know to me that that seems like the thing that the church needs to do is
[00:29:01] to show these people like they got curious about you and you cares about the things that have hurt
[00:29:06] you and your life and I don't know to me that's just the best thing that we could do right now
[00:29:10] it's just be your representation of Christ to those people and like do what we can so bring them closer
[00:29:15] to the Lord so that way the Lord can heal those wounds and their hearts and that way that these
[00:29:19] people can live and feel free and it's kind of going back to what you guys were saying just given
[00:29:24] them the opportunity to be able to feel like they can live and not have to be worried constantly
[00:29:29] about their skin tone when they when they walk in places and when they go into a church it's
[00:29:34] intimidating to go into a church as a black person with a majority being white people that's scary
[00:29:40] and when you come to a church that's open arms and welcoming and you know when you tell them
[00:29:44] about what's from going on your life and they love when you that just that heal something in your heart
[00:29:49] that I can't explain it it totally changes your mind's end stuff but yeah I think it's early
[00:29:54] hit the nail on the head Victoria because the answer to racism is an anti-racism right it's the
[00:30:00] gospel because people are always going to be messed up and there's always going to be racism
[00:30:04] somewhere in the world but God's kingdom is the place where that is also and real Christianity
[00:30:11] is just like the Lord where you know it says in where's it relations 3 26 and through
[00:30:18] 28 it says for you were all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus for all of you who are
[00:30:24] baptized into Christ have slowed yourselves with Christ there is neither June or Greek there is
[00:30:29] neither slave nor free man there's neither male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus
[00:30:35] and that's where that healing is going to come from and that love right like you said people just
[00:30:40] taking your hand and listening to you and it's in the kingdom of of Christ is in it's in God's kingdom
[00:30:46] and it is kingdom coming on through the church that's where the solution for racism is.
[00:30:52] Yeah the first thing I want to say about that subject is Victoria I want to completely validate
[00:30:58] any way you felt when you experience waiting for a hand racism because it absolutely breaks my heart
[00:31:05] to see you spoken to in a derogatory way just because of the color of your skin tone and
[00:31:13] I was just talking to my sister about this her first friend that she ever made was black
[00:31:18] and my family they were on a cruise and my dad pulled my sister to the side and it was like
[00:31:24] hey do you see that little girl over there the one with the brown skin and she was like yeah
[00:31:29] and he was like isn't the color of her skin beautiful like have you ever seen anyone of that
[00:31:34] skin tone before she was like no I haven't and she thought it was the coolest thing ever
[00:31:38] and she just ran over to her and it was like your skin is beautiful I love your skin and they
[00:31:44] became friends and she would just be in awe of any other person that she saw with brown skin
[00:31:51] and I just in my brain cannot imagine going through hate because of that or hating someone
[00:31:59] if further skin tone it just doesn't it doesn't make sense to me and I hate that this is
[00:32:03] still an issue that we have to fight and it like actually makes me sick to my stomach and like you
[00:32:09] said Victoria there's nothing wrong with wanting justice and we see examples of justice throughout
[00:32:15] Bible to put this through a different lens if Jesus came to America in modern times how do
[00:32:31] you think that he would handle the social issues that we're facing wouldn't he handle it with love
[00:32:36] and wouldn't he be the first one exciting for love for all people? I think Jesus always put
[00:32:41] the kingdom of God first and so I think he cares about the issues of social justice but he was
[00:32:47] aware even in his time that the only way to bring justice on earth is to bring God's kingdom
[00:32:53] on earth and that's a kingdom that is not it's not of this world right he was talking to pilot
[00:32:58] at the very end and he was saying you know if my kingdom was of this world my followers would be
[00:33:04] fighting for my freedom right now they would be fighting because I am about to keep it to death
[00:33:09] but my kingdom is an of this world and I think in a similar way we can fight social injustice
[00:33:15] physically and in a really real way at the same time this is a fight that is an of this world
[00:33:21] right and so prayer is really important and also having a heavenly perspective and a holy perspective
[00:33:27] I think the Holy Spirit is really key to fighting social injustice as well right now I think
[00:33:33] that we can protest all we want but in the end it's still an earthly kingdom that we are
[00:33:37] working against and we have to be aware of the spiritual reality that's going on right now
[00:33:42] yeah I think that's really interesting like to look at Jesus' life and like the time period
[00:33:47] that he came in was literally like the Jewish people were being treated in just and justly
[00:33:53] during that time period like he literally came in and people were expecting him to come in and
[00:33:57] being like loud and leading this huge rebellion and like all these different things and you just
[00:34:03] see him just coming to the people individually just going to these towns like going through
[00:34:08] some area when the Americans didn't like the Jews and you know he put himself in a situation
[00:34:13] where he just surrounded himself with zealots and people who are crazy and all this stuff and
[00:34:17] he just taught them how to walk and love and how to walk and peace and I think that's such a great
[00:34:22] representation of what we should be doing right now that's why I have a problem like
[00:34:26] I get riots and stuff are bad but to me whenever I'm thinking of the riots I'm like man
[00:34:31] I want to be the person who's going amongst these rioters and just teaching them how to love you know
[00:34:36] and teaching them a better way like they're hurting people and some of them are taken advantage
[00:34:41] obviously but just like these people are all broken and missing the Lord and that's what they need
[00:34:46] we need to love and peace of God and so when I look at you just seeing what Jesus did he came
[00:34:51] and he went amongst like the dirtiest of the dirty and the the most disrespective people
[00:34:56] and he went and he taught them differently and he changed their hearts and a lot of those people
[00:35:01] were some of the people who were closest to him is disciples there was a few of them that
[00:35:05] were zealots a lot of them were just kind of like intense and crazy and then by the end of it
[00:35:10] they were lies were totally transformed so where there were some of them was loving people
[00:35:14] and that's insane to me just to think about that how these people were just very angry and bitter
[00:35:19] and he just changed their hearts and so yeah I think that's how Jesus would be walking this out just
[00:35:24] being amongst them loving them teaching them a better way and teaching them a kingdom perspective
[00:35:30] on how to look at this and how to see what's going on during this time and that's definitely
[00:35:36] something that I hope that all Christians will look at and be like oh I want to do that same thing
[00:35:41] I want to walk in the way where I'm teaching people and I'm showing people God's love throughout all of
[00:35:47] I think that's such a beautiful picture thinking we're painting in Victoria and like that's such a
[00:35:51] great just explanation of what Jesus was for and what he stood for and what he loved he loved
[00:35:58] people he came for people and you know we live in a broken world and there's no way to escape
[00:36:05] brokenness because even if we can be fighting in the midst of social justice we can be fighting
[00:36:11] for something that's good and something that's honorable we're still broken people and still
[00:36:15] mess and the relationships we have with people are always going to be broken because we were
[00:36:20] created for relationships humans were created for a relationship with God and a secondary
[00:36:25] relationship with others and that's a beautiful thing but we're always funny didn't it really
[00:36:31] that's something to add to that I think we pretty much covered it I think it's hard to shift
[00:36:36] your focus from an earthly perspective to I have only one I think that's a problem that a lot of
[00:36:41] people in the United States in the church in the United States have is that you know you can pull
[00:36:47] yourself up by your own bootstraps and God helps those that help themselves right and I think there's
[00:36:52] a real in some places there is a real blindness to the spiritual reality so shall we what do you say
[00:36:59] yeah I don't really feel like super informed or like my mind is blank but I'm learning
[00:37:06] and I like your perspective all you have just like how God or Jesus when He was on earth just
[00:37:13] like put the kingdom of God first and that just reminder of like we're trying to look for solutions
[00:37:18] but just how we're looking to the gospel for healing and Victoria how you were saying we should
[00:37:23] really like love on people and bring that gospel because God alone can heal those wounds and so
[00:37:29] yeah I think those were all like just good reminders I think it's kind of right and realize about
[00:37:34] the church as well you know because I grew up in a church that's super inclusive like seriously
[00:37:41] you count the nationalities there's more nationalities than people like a lot of
[00:37:45] multi-racial stuff going on and like we counted one time we had a Christmas party with people from our
[00:37:52] church and literally like I think everyone was a different national like set my family and we just had
[00:37:58] tons like we think we had like 60 nationalities around a table of you know 20 people or something
[00:38:03] like that so I think it's hard to generalize sometimes about the church with these questions like
[00:38:10] do you think the church is weakened areas of racial equality I would say no from my experience but
[00:38:14] that doesn't mean that that's true overall you know so it is really interesting depending on
[00:38:19] where you come from different churches are different I'm the Midwest there it's literally 3%
[00:38:24] black we have one kind of major African American church but then the rest of them are just
[00:38:30] basically a we have a lot of churches here actually so this is a Bible Belt so literally
[00:38:34] you throw a rock and you hit a church so it's not it's not hard to find a church around here and all
[00:38:39] the churches are so different any church that you go to is gonna be really different but especially
[00:38:43] here just because there isn't a lot of diversity like 90 something percent white and so that's just
[00:38:49] like you're not gonna find a lot of diversity here growing up like we were one of the you black
[00:38:54] families that lived around here and even just the history that I know about this area it's just
[00:39:00] some of the stuff is very modern some of the history is very modern just even some of the
[00:39:04] public lynchings and stuff like that happened in the 70s and it was done by the whole like city
[00:39:09] like it's really bad and so just depending on where you live really depends on the kind of
[00:39:14] stuff that you're gonna encounter in the church and so yeah I just think it's really interesting
[00:39:19] yeah how it's how it could differ like that my mom was talking about how she went to a
[00:39:23] church that's called all nations when she was younger and literally it's just people from all
[00:39:27] of nations for in that church and it's just a totally different experience so but I think it is
[00:39:32] good to be aware of just socially how your churches if your church is very segregated you'll see
[00:39:38] that people just don't really have an understanding of black culture very often and people don't
[00:39:42] really have this idea of you know that black people might be considering their skin tone or you
[00:39:48] know every day of their life and like that's a factor that they have to deal with and that's
[00:39:52] I just think that's because we're not as exposed to living life with other people that's just
[00:39:57] segregation that just ends up and what I think is really interesting is it's more likely for
[00:40:02] people to be around people who are the same culture as they are there can be kind of natural sometimes
[00:40:07] right just naturally you kind of without realizing it are kind of just going with your crowd
[00:40:13] and then it's not really helping that crossover and both sides are guilty of kind of doing that
[00:40:18] what for different reasons maybe you know like you said earlier like there's a kind of a fear factor
[00:40:23] sometimes when you walk into a church I've just like what's this going to be like so that is a bit
[00:40:28] prohibitive to really getting into that close fellowship that's going to overcome that divide eventually
[00:40:33] for sure yeah and I think that is something that people just naturally do we just naturally
[00:40:38] divide ourselves and see each other divided but like that's not the kingdom of God we came to
[00:40:43] look God is so diverse and people look different and they act different and they you know they sound
[00:40:48] different and so yeah I just think it's important to be aware of it and just being like oh are we
[00:40:52] actually taking the time to kind of cross over and see people who are different than us and engage
[00:40:58] in love others besides just the people who look like ourselves I just think that's something that
[00:41:02] the whole church could do in general but I think some churches just don't do it as well and
[00:41:08] it's good to be aware like am I doing this well or not am I making an effort to go beyond just
[00:41:13] who I'm normally typically wanting to be around. I think some churches are better at creating
[00:41:18] a culture of self-awareness when it comes to kind of checking yourself about those things you know
[00:41:25] checking yourself on matters of fellowship and biblical authenticity you know it's a certain kind of
[00:41:31] accountability in some communities some communities or better at that than others I think so
[00:41:39] check your church. As you guys have been watching this all unfold what are the things that
[00:41:49] grieve you right now like the things that just grieve your spirit and how are you personally
[00:41:55] processing those things? Some of the things that grieve me at the same have been some of the stories
[00:42:00] that I've seen circulating in Instagram there's a if it isn't a pleasure that I follow and she
[00:42:07] shares story about a coworker she shares some of the DMs that she has received or that she
[00:42:13] regularly receives and it was people just making me comments just because she's African-American
[00:42:21] almost like putting her in her place and those are messages that she regularly receives and
[00:42:28] a lot of us we would have know about it but because of this focus on racial injustice we're able
[00:42:34] to know about these stories that otherwise would be untold and I think I just found that really
[00:42:40] sad that even though I don't deal with those things on a daily basis there's other people that do
[00:42:46] and I think personally just processing it makes me wake up and learn that it's not just enough
[00:42:52] to just ignore people but it's good that people have to confront all this and things that
[00:42:59] they don't even know are happening so there can be a real change and people take the time to
[00:43:04] to get in from form and learn and have compassion and are what other people go through so I think
[00:43:10] just taking the time to being into process to intentionally not be as late to all of this.
[00:43:15] So this is something that I just have really had to take step by step and unfold very slowly
[00:43:21] everything feels like it's going really fast so it's kind of hard to just take it all at once but I
[00:43:26] think for me the thing that I've been grieving the most is just like this the sad wound that is
[00:43:33] inside of our nation that is racism and disunity and it's inside the church as well you know
[00:43:40] and that breaks my heart like it breaks my heart to to think about this thing being a division
[00:43:49] between the body of Christ and there are so many people who are being affected by it
[00:43:55] as well in such a negative way and it's reflecting in the way that they're living it's reflecting
[00:44:01] in their reactions it's reflecting in everything like this wound is limiting people and it's
[00:44:08] bringing up a lot of pain in her and making reactions that are out of pain in her which is causing
[00:44:14] more pain in her and it's painful to watch I have been just praying and oh my knees crying and just
[00:44:23] just thinking about like these things and it's hard because also there's a lot of people out there who
[00:44:29] just don't you don't care about unity and don't care about each other's emotions each other's
[00:44:35] hearts and that also greets me like people in the church body just wouldn't rather just say things
[00:44:41] that are just so hurtful and so painful and and that bothers me a lot and that's not everybody I've
[00:44:47] actually had a lot of people messaging me and talking to me about it and just you know really
[00:44:52] take the effort too but I am great by those people because I feel like those people aren't walking
[00:44:57] in what the Lord is called as to and that's painful to watch and so I think between those two
[00:45:04] things just just the racism and then also just to see such neglect and out the feet towards
[00:45:11] the hearts of people that's just been that's been deep in my heart and that's even for me
[00:45:16] like if for years I just have not been thinking about other people's hearts I haven't been thinking
[00:45:22] about what can I do to see the Lord and walk in and be able to transform that person's life
[00:45:30] and I've not done that either and so I'm not saying it's just me but it's just I feel so
[00:45:36] convicted about it I feel so convicted at the fact that for years I just didn't I didn't look
[00:45:42] and I didn't try and it was painful and it still is and so yeah those are just a few of the things
[00:45:48] and I've been I just been praying and asking the Lord like what can I do? What are you going to
[00:45:54] do through me like what do you want to do through me and just being open to what he has and what he wants
[00:46:00] and his heart for this nation and his heart for the church and so yeah I like the way Victoria
[00:46:07] described what's happening as a wound and I see how this wound has been supposed and the
[00:46:13] scap has been lifted up again and we see that there's still a lot of things that need healing
[00:46:18] concerning racial injustice so I think as a church it would be good to also be willing to listen
[00:46:26] and learn and not jump to conclusions and to not think that these issues are behind us. What gives
[00:46:33] me hope is the willingness I see people to make a change how they are taking the time to pause
[00:46:40] and to listen and I think that's a good starting point for change.
[00:46:55] I do have a question for you Victoria I'm still working there a lot of the things because I really
[00:47:00] don't know my feelings on a lot of the subject but going back to like the idea of color blindness
[00:47:06] and what we were just kind of talking about it like two questions ago and I wish I could remember
[00:47:11] like what made me think of it but it was just talking about how I mean I see a lot of things
[00:47:17] on color blindness and like recognizing the black community and not treating everyone as the same
[00:47:23] and so at first I was like wait they're pushing for segregation like now I'm racist dip on treating
[00:47:28] everyone the same like I can't win and I'm racist either way but I'm just I'm really confused
[00:47:34] because I feel like I grew up with a relatively diverse group of friends and I don't know
[00:47:40] just going back to what are we saying at the beginning I don't really see people as their skin tone
[00:47:46] you know like I have a friend this friend has read here and this friend has realized
[00:47:50] and this friend has brown skin you know it just feels like one of those things I just wanted to
[00:47:55] know like you're perspective in your opinion but you feel like there's a paradox there of like
[00:48:00] yeah but don't see my color or something like that right yeah this in segregation like how
[00:48:06] I do it on mega church like mega mega church so I mean it's hugely diverse I mean I would say
[00:48:12] there's definitely more white people there than black people but it's not like oh there's the
[00:48:16] one black person in the congregation because it's a huge church and there's a whole lot of just
[00:48:21] it's a very diverse congregation because I'm even living selling California so there's a lot of
[00:48:25] Hispanic roots and then there's a lot of like you see a lot of African-American people
[00:48:29] you see a lot of white people you see a lot of everybody so I kind of never felt like that was
[00:48:35] you know I just I really never had an experience with any kind of segregation partly because
[00:48:41] I grew up not like it I was taught you know people are you know that's not being made in the image
[00:48:47] of God doesn't mean we look like him it means we can think like him and act like him then it
[00:48:52] moved and loved like him so that was always just kind of different I don't think of a human as
[00:48:59] what they look like I think of a human as their personality and their mind so like when I said
[00:49:04] like if my friend introduced me to an African-American person they thought I don't know but I don't
[00:49:08] think probably wouldn't even think about their skin color I would only have how would we like
[00:49:14] I don't know see it and recognize if it would be like recognizing their hair color or their eye color
[00:49:19] like it's just so far away from what I'm thinking so I just I wondered if you had any kind of
[00:49:25] first story like just kind of to clear it up because there's something I've been thinking about
[00:49:29] the past weeks because I'm so confused with what I've been seeing and like I just I can tell that
[00:49:35] it's something that I don't quite have a grasp of and I haven't been quite able to work it out
[00:49:41] in my head like exactly what's going on and exactly what I can cause of that so yeah I'm
[00:49:47] I think I get what you're asking yeah whenever like I think when people say that they want to
[00:49:54] you to not see their skin tone it's not in a way that they're like hey act like I'm not black
[00:49:59] like you you're gonna see my skin tone and you're gonna know I'm a black person that's just
[00:50:03] that's reality and I'm gonna see your skin tone and I'm gonna know your white person that's
[00:50:07] reall me but I think what they're asking for really is that like you're not making your decisions
[00:50:12] based off of their skin tone and I think that's where the the color blind thing kind of comes in
[00:50:18] it's like personally when I'm asking someone to see me as being black and they're stand that
[00:50:22] your black but not yeah you can make decisions based on the fact that you're black right?
[00:50:27] well so like culturally even there's gonna be cultural differences and how our families are
[00:50:33] even just the fact that I'm from the Midwest and that you guys are from California most of you
[00:50:37] and then always in England but just like our backgrounds are definitely gonna make things different
[00:50:42] for us but over the years people have made the decision that someone is dangerous or that someone
[00:50:48] is it where they're time but someone might be poor that someone might try to steal from them
[00:50:53] just because they're black and I think that's where people are asking hey don't just see me
[00:50:57] because I'm black like see me for me being a person like I have word you know and culturally
[00:51:03] like I am black I have black culture because my skin tone is black and black people tend to get
[00:51:09] around other black people like that's just culturally we're gonna have things passed down from our
[00:51:14] ancestors that you guys have not because we're black and our ancestors went to different
[00:51:19] life than yours just like you know other people so it's like there will be cultural differences
[00:51:24] between us but we're all still Americans we all should be able to love each other we all should
[00:51:29] be able to live amongst each other and see each other as not people who are being who like you
[00:51:34] know I should you shouldn't see me and think that I might be more dangerous or that I'm more
[00:51:38] less than you and that's what racism is it racism is whenever I see someone and I immediately
[00:51:44] think that they're less than me because of their skin tone that's what that is and so being
[00:51:49] colorblind necessarily I don't think that's racism but it is kind of like living this life
[00:51:54] was you're just not really aware of cultural differences and there are going to be differences
[00:51:58] between me and me and we should be able to embrace those things and just like you were talking
[00:52:02] about we should be able to have different backgrounds and be able to be amongst each other and live
[00:52:07] in harmony even though our world music can be totally different I know that like going into
[00:52:12] a week or two majority white people within our church where I'm from and just growing up but then
[00:52:19] just like sometimes I'll tell them stories about seeing the stuff that's happened to be
[00:52:23] growing up there seem a lot of stuff happen just letting in the Midwest and they'll just be like
[00:52:27] no way like I never would have thought that you had done that how can you never said anything
[00:52:31] I was like oh this is because I just didn't think to talk about it because like no one seemed like
[00:52:35] they were interested in that and kind of then when I said that out loud I was like oh that actually
[00:52:39] is kind of sad that like people don't really know a good portion about my life and who I am and these
[00:52:44] are people that I feel really close to me and I was like I want them to recognize that I have
[00:52:48] these struggles and issues because my skin tone still and so it's like you know wanting to have
[00:52:53] but you should be able to recognize that I'm a black person and be able to realize that we're
[00:52:57] gonna have cultural differences but at the same time see me as a person who is a person and that
[00:53:02] I can live my life and I'm not some criminal or this horrible person or less than you because
[00:53:08] I am black you know I mean so I hope that makes sense if that kind of clears up the meaning of that
[00:53:13] so it's like see my skin tone see my culture and respect it but you don't have the rights to
[00:53:19] predestine who you think I am or who you think I'm going to be because of the color my skin.
[00:53:24] Yeah or not even the right or stay but don't judge. Right, right that's what I meant by like
[00:53:28] not by the right you cannot do something but like as in out of respect for someone and out of
[00:53:34] just like just seeing someone as rather in sister and price with a different
[00:53:38] different culture and different life than you it's not like a reason for I don't know
[00:53:43] I thought that to you come out of how I want to take their mind. It's like there are different
[00:53:46] cultures of white people right so like you know it's like Scottish and then like people from England
[00:53:52] are really different. I was trying to make but I couldn't put it into words like yeah
[00:53:59] we're all happy but we all have our cultures and like I don't know I don't know where we're
[00:54:03] on all always gonna understand each other but these right there's some other as as equals I'm
[00:54:08] not going to see you less because like just like yes black African person just as equal as me you
[00:54:14] know right as we're even though we're both black and it comes from very different types of backgrounds
[00:54:18] like we're different people and if I can recognize that they're culturally different than I am.
[00:54:22] Right and you know I'm mixed I'm half full of you know halfway so I totally know what it's like
[00:54:27] to have different cultures my Filipino family parties are so different than my white family
[00:54:33] parties and I I love things from both sides and both cultures but it is very different but it's
[00:54:39] not something that makes me think one side is better than the other. It's just both sides of me
[00:54:44] and my family tree that I love you know it's not something for separation or segregation or just
[00:54:50] I don't know it's I think I guess that's why it's so hard for me to understand how there are racist
[00:54:55] people and like just big of trees still happening because I am mixed and I come from a place that's
[00:55:02] that's very celebrated you know and I was very fortunate to have that so like Corey said a lot of it
[00:55:08] is me still wrapping my brain around how all of this is happening but it's just my heart is very
[00:55:13] broken for everything that's been happening and you know all I just think it's a very important
[00:55:19] discussion to have here. Understanding is a part of wisdom right so anytime you're in asking someone
[00:55:24] to understand as in understand my cultural difference and appreciate it you're asking them to be wise
[00:55:30] and unfortunately not everyone is and really most people aren't on a certain level you know
[00:55:36] and that's something that comes from spending more time with the Lord I mean you can develop wisdom
[00:55:41] just as a human being but eventually you're gonna figure out where it's coming from and that's
[00:55:45] from the Lord so good word. I fully love everything that you said and I really resonate a lot with what
[00:55:52] you said because I love culture just as a concept I love learning about different cultures. I lived
[00:55:58] in Europe when I was very young and it kind of like opened my eyes to the fact that people do
[00:56:02] things differently than I've grown up doing and when we visit different churches they do things
[00:56:07] differently than my church. The Nio always had such a fascinating with that and last year I lived
[00:56:12] a semester in the UK. We can't really be traveled around and I remember just soaking that up because
[00:56:18] I love learning about different cultures and different countries and languages but I think what's been
[00:56:24] so kind of jarring for me in this time and like what's been going on in the past few months is
[00:56:30] the fact that I'm kind of waking up to I didn't realize how big of a culture difference there was
[00:56:36] between Americans. You know like that never really crossed my mind because I never had experience with
[00:56:42] it and how we saw people is you know we're Americans. So I think it's been so confusing like
[00:56:48] my I said like to just wrap your head around it because like as I'm waking up to this you know
[00:56:53] on social media I'm here in like 20 plus different opinions all being yelled at me and it's kind of
[00:57:00] this really scary mentality of my opinion is right and therefore everyone else is opinion is wrong so
[00:57:05] listen to this and listen to this I really don't know what's happening at all because I have no
[00:57:10] personal experience with this. So I've been trying to watch it from just like through a lens
[00:57:16] of looking at a different culture just like how I loved learning about England's culture and I love
[00:57:21] or reading about different cultures and different countries because that's just something I'm
[00:57:25] very fascinated with. So it's been a really eye-opening experience for me this past few months because
[00:57:30] it's a culture shift that I just didn't realize was there and obviously I knew that there was
[00:57:35] differences because you know people's heritage and people's history but I just didn't realize just how
[00:57:40] much that carried through into modern day society because like we were talking about like I think
[00:57:44] of a lot of that is history as American history and of course it's something important to remember
[00:57:49] and something to know happened and there were terrible things that happened in our country
[00:57:54] and there were good things that rose out of those like the civil rights movement in the 60s
[00:57:58] and we're still trying to fix things and I'm just realizing now that you know it's it's not
[00:58:04] exactly as I could see it and it's been really interesting for me to see the culture difference
[00:58:09] and just to watch things as they're changing and watch my viewpoint as it's changing as well because
[00:58:15] like I said I had no experience with this prior to when it kind of exploded on social media for
[00:58:20] me but it's been really interesting for me to just see that culture difference because
[00:58:25] culture is something I really love and it was eye-opening for me because I just didn't realize
[00:58:29] that there was a different culture you know within my country within my social circles so
[00:58:34] I think it's been a really interesting experience for a lot of people and I do love that we're
[00:58:39] able to have discussions like this to like bring our world views together and to understand
[00:58:45] and connect across cultures and across different individuals just in our own experiences
[00:58:51] and that's I think that's what I love about culture and I love about humanity as that we're
[00:58:56] able to come together and we're able to communicate and then we can you know we can connect with
[00:59:00] each other and we can have empathy with each other and we can grow like Holly said wisdom
[00:59:05] part of wisdom is being able to understand being able to empathize. Being able to know
[00:59:10] what you're feeling and what you're thinking and what you're going through so I've really enjoyed
[00:59:15] this discussion and I really enjoyed watching just kind of how things unfold or suddenly
[00:59:20] and just this kind of culture shift but I've been experiencing.
[00:59:34] So yeah guys this discussion has been really good and I just kind of like in on this note like for
[00:59:39] you yourselves what are some things that you can think of not just as a church but just in general
[00:59:45] as people what can we do to just be better allies for the African American community or even
[00:59:51] just to be more aware of social justice issues and God's heart for it. What do you personally
[00:59:56] do and what do you feel like we can do to grow in that? That's something that I've been
[01:00:01] thinking about a lot for myself personally. I think we have some want to be aware of it and we
[01:00:06] actually will continually like kind of day by day make ourselves stay aware of it because things come
[01:00:12] and go in the cultural spotlight so quickly we'll have a big surge of awareness for
[01:00:19] and people are talking about it all over the place and then the next day it's gone because we've
[01:00:24] moved on something else. So I think it's just really important that we make ourselves aware of it
[01:00:29] daily and that's something that we're going on, praying about considering how each of us personally
[01:00:35] can stay aware. I think we're too quick to do one thing like listen to podcasts read a book,
[01:00:41] have one conversation with somebody about it and then just be satisfied with ourselves like we did
[01:00:46] our one thing to make a difference and that's it. We're going to move on and continue on for
[01:00:50] lives as usual and I think it's understanding that making steps to change and area like these
[01:00:57] it's going to take change in our lives and it's not really comfortable because it's not going
[01:01:01] to be how we've lived our lives typically in the past like he has our same a few minutes ago we
[01:01:07] tend to gravitate towards people I think that are like us that are that we're comfortable with
[01:01:12] people that are similar to us because that's comfortable but I think we just need to be willing
[01:01:17] to consistently be uncomfortable and so we become comfortable with the thing that makes us
[01:01:23] uncomfortable. I just think lasting change, change that really lasts permanently will only come
[01:01:29] if we're pursuing it in a persevering and just constant, constant manner. I totally agree with
[01:01:35] that Kai and one thing that does suck but we need to realize is that we do live in a fallen world
[01:01:42] with a fallen society that is always going to be subject to things that are harmful to those around
[01:01:48] us whether that the issues of racism or abuse or like any of those other things and I feel like
[01:01:56] the best we can do as the body of Christ is to take those that are hurting and take them by their
[01:02:02] hand and just fight with them and find our strengths and Christ and just work to be more like
[01:02:09] Jesus every day and just bringing it back to that simple fact of you know what Jesus loves everyone
[01:02:15] heaviness for everyone that loves him and gets to know him and chooses him so as the community
[01:02:22] that loves him we just need to continue to choose him. I think one thing that I am convicted about
[01:02:28] that I do not do enough is just pray for the situation you know and pray for the people who are
[01:02:34] in the forefront of everything the government, the administration of Black Lives Matter
[01:02:39] and the people who are participating in different events and protests people in the church who are
[01:02:46] figuring out how to deal with and participate in those events as well. I think prayer is so
[01:02:53] important and it's so easy to not do it and that's something I want to repent of I want to be
[01:02:59] better at that and just be faithful to with the people who are on the front lines of dealing with
[01:03:04] this situation. Well thank you guys for having this discussion it's very important one so
[01:03:15] I know that this specific discussion is going to be really impactful for some people and I can't
[01:03:21] wait to see what the Lord does with it and what He speaks to everyone who's just kind of
[01:03:26] tuning in and taking the time to listen so yeah thank you bye bye yay.
[01:03:36] Thanks for listening to The Good Voice Collective this show was put together by the Good Line
[01:03:40] interns and are edited her an executive producer is Erin Salvado we are a proud part of the Good
[01:03:46] Line podcast network in CGM. You can find all our episodes and more great podcasts content
[01:03:52] at their website go lie in.io we hope you enjoyed this episode and we hope it makes you think
[01:03:58] least you encourage and helps you walk closer with Jesus thanks for joining us it's our hope
[01:04:03] here are the Good Voice Collective that we can be a collective of Christ followers who use
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