Joy Metzger currently serves with her husband Phil at CalvarySD in San Deigo California. She has been serving in ministry since she was a young adult and has served in various capacities. She has helped raise up the next generation of church planters and missionaries while serving at Calvary Chapel Bible College Europe. She and Phil have taken part in a radical movement of God in Eastern Europe, where they helped plant several churches and ultimately handed over a church in Budapest Hungary to local leadership which still serves the community with great success. She has a valid and vital voice in the space of church planting and missions, and I am so blessed to have her on the podcast.
Email me: temporarytenant@calvarychapel.com
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[00:00:15] I definitely see guys grace. I definitely don't we were not emotionally developed or mature
[00:00:20] We didn't have the verbage that we have now. We didn't know like what it really looked like
[00:00:25] The be like authentically vulnerable and like that healthy sense of the word. I'm saying it was
[00:00:30] It was God's grace and what to see that you used like the honesty
[00:00:34] And I found this face that in being a woman who's in desperate and old,
[00:00:39] God in my marriage
[00:00:41] I had huge opportunity to be able to minister to other women
[00:00:45] To be a mother and desperate need of God's wisdom and raising for children
[00:00:52] I have huge open doors to share with people
[00:00:55] Not as a person who has it all finished and done
[00:00:59] It was someone like man I need I need God would you come with me?
[00:01:09] Alright well our guests on the podcast today is joy,
[00:01:26] Metzker, joy has been a missionary, has been a church planter
[00:01:30] A mother, a women's ministry leader just she wears a ton of different hats
[00:01:35] She's an amazing person I am honored to have her on the podcast
[00:01:40] So joy thank you so much for being on
[00:01:43] Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
[00:01:46] I am excited for our conversation
[00:01:49] This conversation is going to revolve around your story around women in church planting
[00:01:55] In church planting I think that is highlighted enough, especially in our circle of you know, Calvary Chapel
[00:02:03] And of just church planting in general
[00:02:08] I think that the stories of church planters
[00:02:11] Is missed as far as women in church planting
[00:02:15] So I'm excited to get your perspective
[00:02:17] I told you before that I was going to ask you a question
[00:02:21] But how did you get involved in church planting and missions in ministry? What was the spark?
[00:02:27] Yeah, okay. So well there's so many sparks
[00:02:31] But I feel super validated to be asked this question
[00:02:34] And even to be invited into the space as a woman as a wife
[00:02:38] Yeah, I think that there needs to be more platforms for this
[00:02:41] So thank you for letting me be one of many I hope that will be like joined in this conversation
[00:02:47] But yeah, for me I think back in the day I was young. I was 15 on my first mission trip
[00:02:54] I was in high school and my first missionary trip opportunity with Turese
[00:02:59] And first time like really like overseas out of the country
[00:03:04] First I'm ever really getting to share my feet
[00:03:06] First time ever just being in an opportunity to kind of build like
[00:03:12] You know, would there be a place like that would God use me?
[00:03:16] You know I wasn't I had no ambition and I think in a lot of ways is just the way I'm wired
[00:03:22] But also the way I was disciple I feel like as a woman as a girl
[00:03:29] I wasn't a woman at that point. I was 15 years old. I definitely like had great
[00:03:35] For example, is of people who like were surrendered and sold out for cries and giving all for him
[00:03:42] But it definitely was always highlighted at least through my scope like as a wife
[00:03:48] Or as maybe like there are those you know, a token like single women who are just chargers and I just respect
[00:03:55] I respect and appreciate them so much. So there's like there's a handful of like single
[00:04:02] Missionary women who've gone out but as for the rest and like for me and my understanding of
[00:04:08] Emissions it was always in the aspect of like as a wife or as a mom
[00:04:14] And so when I went on my first mission trip obviously I wasn't a wife. I wasn't a mom
[00:04:19] And I was just thinking like what does that look like like we could God ever use me you know could that ever
[00:04:25] Could that happen you know and but with long the same year that I went on that trip was really we're dating
[00:04:32] And he had already graduated from high school and he was an on a longer term trip to Russia
[00:04:38] I was just on the two-weeker
[00:04:40] And we like often now on broke up more times and we got there obviously we finally got back together
[00:04:49] And we got and like it was that was kind of the crux of like marrying Phil it was clear that this person was different
[00:04:59] Even back then like he was someone that was like yeah, he's gonna he's gonna go he's gonna charge like whatever that's gonna look like
[00:05:06] But for me and the way that I'm wired and the way that I understood my Bible back then or even understood my place
[00:05:14] It was just kind of in the shadows
[00:05:17] I was just like to blindly follow and that was never something that Phil put on me. I think I put it on myself
[00:05:25] I was like yeah, all follow you and all go where you go kind of attitude
[00:05:30] But it was actually Phil who's in a lot of ways been the one of like I'm not it's not that way
[00:05:37] We go together we we need to be in agreement together and we're he invited me into that space initially even
[00:05:43] And my age and the way that my family and the way I was raised it was like I just have to blindly kind of just step into like my dad
[00:05:52] Or my husband shadow
[00:05:54] And then learning like actually know actually like I can hear from the Lord and I could actually have a call into missions and into church planning and I have a place
[00:06:06] And I think now I mean yeah, I'm not that young. I use a little girl anymore
[00:06:11] I'm and such a different stage of life, but I'm still like unraveling some of those thoughts
[00:06:16] And you've been like being invited onto this podcast is like church planting and mission like as a woman
[00:06:22] What is my view? You know it's like it's very like encouraging and validating and I I work keep pressing into that for like the next generation of women
[00:06:33] And whether single or married or whatever it looks like
[00:06:37] Let's let's do better. Let's keep pressing into it
[00:06:40] So yeah, I don't know if I totally veered off of the question until he went too far, but that was my first step into missions was when I was 15 and then when I was 21 is when we moved to Hungary
[00:06:52] Being married and having a one year old baby so I stepped into like missions and church planting as a wife and as a mom
[00:07:02] So when you when you talk about having to because it sounds like you kind of have to go through this process of unlearning a lot
[00:07:11] In that in that beginning stage of, okay, you've gone out as a 15 year old
[00:07:17] You know experiencing something that's so vastly different than you know Southern California life, which I'll say
[00:07:25] Join I know each other we we are very familiar with each other and we've been around each other for many many years her mother was my second grade teacher
[00:07:34] I have known about her and Phil in their adventures and their ventures of faith and they were they were what encouraged
[00:07:42] Currican I
[00:07:43] To step out and faith and go into church planting. There's a lot of emotion that will come up
[00:07:48] I'm sure in this podcast over a lot of different things, but
[00:07:53] Growing up in Southern California going to Russia right after the iron curtain felt right after these major world events are happening
[00:08:02] I have to imagine that your your world is kind of exploding at that point not only is that happening, but you're also dating a person who's who's like I'm ready to turn the world upside down
[00:08:15] So what was that like it was super attractive and it was super exciting
[00:08:20] I was definitely still like stepping into my own identity and my own relationship with Christ, but like meeting someone like Phil and he's always been a goofball
[00:08:30] And just like he's still the same person that he was back in the day, but there was something like he was outside the box and my viewpoint outside of our box that we
[00:08:38] You know even in the Orange County California
[00:08:42] Calvary Chapel even like I feel like
[00:08:45] And my you know Phil was so outside the box and the way that he worked and the way that he functioned the way that he thought the way he was raised
[00:08:52] And so there was something super attractive and but it was confusing and we we definitely like that was a hot mess like our full dating life
[00:09:01] You know, but I'm so grateful for it now like it was a life that's clear visual and it's like easy scripture memory and like oh you know
[00:09:08] A choir singing in our background. It was like a mess and we had to like fight through it and process it and hear from God and
[00:09:15] And know what is it that God's calling us into and now I can look back and be like man I'm so thankful at the time I felt so so fickle so naive so unsure of myself so insecure you know
[00:09:27] But if it wasn't for that I don't know I would be as confident right in what God did now
[00:09:33] I'm still insecure and naive and fickle, but I feel more clear of the Lord than ever and
[00:09:40] I think for me
[00:09:42] I think I had this image of when you get married and when you have kids
[00:09:47] It's like a separate entity as like a mission so I was I had gone on a short term mission trip as a single person. I got in the summer mission trip to England
[00:09:56] When I was a junior and again like getting to experience the single
[00:09:59] But the idea of being a wife and a mom
[00:10:03] It was like I have to pick one of the other
[00:10:06] You know like you and then so it was like okay, so fills the missionary
[00:10:11] He's the church planner and I'm the wife and a mom and I really helped that for a while like an I almost found like comfort and security in that and
[00:10:21] I don't have any disregard to that at all, but I do identify as a missionary and as a
[00:10:28] Fanter and a mom and a wife, but it all correlates together
[00:10:33] And I have friends who they have been a part of missions, but their sole purpose was to be at home as a wife and a mom
[00:10:40] Total respect respect 100% but I think there's a place for women that it doesn't have to be air like one of the other
[00:10:49] There's ice rate can be both in the spirit in the Lord like by kids
[00:10:55] We're like such a springboard into our church planting
[00:10:59] Our marriage and most of it was rough, especially the early days was the bickering and the fighting those that was the playground
[00:11:08] That was our Bible College. That's like fight it out and learn what does it mean to be church planners
[00:11:15] Like now looking back like I think I would have counted. Oh, I was just a wife. I was just a mom in the background
[00:11:20] And Phil was always the one I was like, no step up be here. You're with that we're a team. He's always he's always made me part of the team
[00:11:28] And that I was leading the women and he was leading the men it was like we were we were charging together, you know
[00:11:37] And I think that's so important and I'm so grateful for that, you know
[00:11:41] So when you talk about it and you think retrospectively about your early time in Hungary and the church the different church plans
[00:11:50] Because I mean honestly when as a child of your guys as history of what you guys have done and what you guys accomplished
[00:12:00] And I say you guys intentionally right
[00:12:05] When you look at that retrospectively now having a better understanding of your essential
[00:12:14] Position within those movements of Eastern Europe hungry Ukraine, you know, Romania like so many different things happened
[00:12:28] Because of not only your willingness to just be present but your willingness to step in to
[00:12:36] Calling as well as you know
[00:12:40] Be a mother to people maybe who didn't have mothers
[00:12:45] And so retrospectively when you look at that and you're saying now like maybe then I wouldn't identify that I was a church planter
[00:12:55] But now retrospectively looking at it. I can see the areas where I was a church planter why I'm saying this right is because I want to
[00:13:05] What what I'm hoping you can do with looking at it retrospectively is give some of our listeners who I'm not sure if there's women
[00:13:14] I'm not sure but I know there's men and I know there's husbands and I know that those husbands need to encourage their wives
[00:13:21] And saying hey this is how you are a church planter
[00:13:26] Yeah, that's
[00:13:28] Thank you. I mean thank you for letting me that. I mean that's that honor and that is my heart
[00:13:33] 100% I mean we first moved to copish far hungry southern part of Hungary
[00:13:37] We were very young. We were very young and married. We're very young and parenting
[00:13:42] We are very young in the ministry. We'd served like short-term. We'd you know, we'd served in youth ministry
[00:13:48] But as a church planter, we were very young and it was said that we learn together fill an eye
[00:13:54] You know, and he definitely is much more confident. He's much more decisive
[00:14:00] He's much more like a thwartier. Regardless how to develop and end that calling and he developed it in both of us
[00:14:07] And I think that's always such a
[00:14:10] A dangerous thing dangerous thing that when we look at people's temperament or personality types
[00:14:15] It's so easy to look at oh, well, they're super like he's super decisive
[00:14:20] And he's a strong leader and joys pretty like passive and pretty insecure
[00:14:25] So that's kind of like a nice little package deal
[00:14:28] And it's that's where we have to be really careful because I think in a lot of ways
[00:14:33] I felt like even wanting to step into my calling of like just supporting fill
[00:14:38] Like stepping into like yes, I want to I had that instinct of mother
[00:14:42] I wanted to be a mother not like bossing people around
[00:14:46] But just like caring and nurturing people and there was a space for that in those early days
[00:14:51] Even though I didn't have a lot of like life experience or worldly wisdom
[00:14:57] Even like really solid Bible knowledge
[00:15:00] I you know, I was still in like that development growing like I still him to the stay
[00:15:05] You know, but God gave me a space to like be friends
[00:15:09] I had friendship and relationship
[00:15:12] And I was allowed to be in that and it wasn't about roles or titles or are you this or are you that?
[00:15:18] And I remember the challenge would be more when we would go back on furlough
[00:15:22] And it would be like, oh so what do you do?
[00:15:25] I know what all does but what do you do?
[00:15:27] And honestly there was like the reality of life of
[00:15:30] I do laundry, I hang my clothes and a line.
[00:15:34] I learn how to take the bus.
[00:15:36] I'm language, I'm learning language and I am taking care of a small child
[00:15:41] You know like that was like I could do that really anywhere
[00:15:44] And it would be a lot easier in California at least I'd have a drug
[00:15:48] I would have like family members helping with my baby, you know
[00:15:52] For there was like that but I had to like find that
[00:15:55] I'm doing something I'm a part of something I didn't always feel like I was
[00:15:59] I don't like I was part of anything great
[00:16:01] I just felt like I you know is just doing what we were doing
[00:16:05] But we always saw like man this is such a owner
[00:16:09] But the first four years, four and a half years that we were in
[00:16:12] Coppice Fire was challenging, we struggled in our marriage, we struggled in
[00:16:16] Our parenting but we invited people into the struggle
[00:16:20] And that was really a part of so much of like those early days in
[00:16:24] Coppice Fire.
[00:16:25] And then when we moved and we joined the team and Vita the Bible
[00:16:29] College that's when things turned for us again
[00:16:33] We were super young, super inexperienced
[00:16:35] We had this kind of experience of church planting in
[00:16:38] Coppice Fire, we hadn't had experience with Bible College at all
[00:16:42] We'd never been to Bible College, it never studied the Bible College class ever
[00:16:46] And here we were with students like that we were in love with
[00:16:50] Like that's our heart is young people
[00:16:52] And it was about discipleship and a friendship level
[00:16:56] And then I met the ultimate girl boss of all girl bosses
[00:16:59] I mean Pam Markey is the woman of all women
[00:17:02] If you want to talk about her planner you want to talk about missions
[00:17:05] I talk about every stereotype that I had and my little naive mind of my role as a wife
[00:17:10] And a mother and she free, more than anything someone who moved
[00:17:14] Down the mission go with eight children and she was a church planter
[00:17:18] She didn't just grow over as like I'm going to relocate my children
[00:17:22] I'm going to locate my marriage and I'm going to just like let my husband go
[00:17:26] It's hard to church, he joined the team and that's where I was like
[00:17:31] I began to grow on my understanding of the word of God
[00:17:34] I started studying my Bible like I'd never done
[00:17:36] Because these students were like hard course study and I was like
[00:17:38] Dude, I got to pick it up and I'm just you know
[00:17:41] I'm married to one of the teachers that I don't know my Bible
[00:17:44] Think about that because guess what Bible knowledge doesn't just pass over to the wise
[00:17:50] This because the husband studying 12 hours a day of the Bible
[00:17:53] It doesn't mean that by default I have knowledge of the word
[00:17:56] I have this Bible
[00:17:59] And I had to pick an open truth for myself
[00:18:02] And then in with like ultimate girl boss like Pam Marky
[00:18:05] Like she just broke open things
[00:18:08] Here's a woman who's super gentle
[00:18:11] Super soft, super like just nurturing and tender
[00:18:15] Yet she is like charging
[00:18:18] Because in my mind I'm so black and white you think of like a woman
[00:18:21] She's got to be super aggressive
[00:18:23] She's got to be super decisive, super leading
[00:18:26] So I thought I had to be filled
[00:18:28] I didn't have to be filled, I just had to be myself
[00:18:31] And like that's when I learned to step into my own
[00:18:34] And that's when like the word just began to open doors
[00:18:37] And I mean that's what I still feel
[00:18:40] I'm still trying to step into my own
[00:18:42] Just be who I am
[00:18:43] I can't be anyone but myself
[00:18:45] I can't force my husband to be anyone but he ate who he is
[00:18:48] I can't force my kids to be anyone but who they are
[00:18:51] No matter how hard I try
[00:18:53] I could be everybody else and anybody else
[00:18:56] And they won't, they refuse to
[00:18:58] Every parenting book I told Chris of this morning
[00:19:01] Every parenting book I ever read
[00:19:03] My kids never fit into any of those books
[00:19:05] I tried to shove them into those books
[00:19:08] And they could not fit
[00:19:09] And I created some of the tips and tricks
[00:19:12] But the rest I just had to kind of like
[00:19:14] Okay, God, what's your heart from my kids?
[00:19:16] What's your heart from my marriage?
[00:19:18] What's your heart for our calling?
[00:19:20] And that's when there's this place for this podcast
[00:19:23] Or let's talk about different people's experiences
[00:19:26] But ultimately we all have to discern from God
[00:19:28] And we have to be our own, you know?
[00:19:31] And it's tricky thinking thing, you know?
[00:19:33] Yeah, I mean honestly I think the space for this podcast
[00:19:37] Isn't so much of like
[00:19:39] Ah ha
[00:19:41] This is how they did it
[00:19:43] So we can do it that way
[00:19:46] And I want to highlight the stories of success
[00:19:49] But I also want to highlight the stories of failure
[00:19:52] And in the show we've had a couple different episodes
[00:19:58] Of pastors, one in particular
[00:20:01] His name was Dr. Stephen Stallard
[00:20:03] Admitted that after he left his church plant
[00:20:05] The church closed
[00:20:06] And so we got to talk about that
[00:20:08] Talk about the emotions of that
[00:20:10] Talk about the repercussions of that
[00:20:12] Talk about the blessings of that
[00:20:14] The fact that believers went out into other areas
[00:20:17] And planted new churches and new work
[00:20:19] Sprung out
[00:20:21] And so I think that the space for talking about church planting
[00:20:25] And talking about ministry and missions
[00:20:27] And all these different things
[00:20:28] Is not so much, I can mimic them
[00:20:32] But man, I can learn from them
[00:20:35] In their successes and their failures
[00:20:38] Not that I'm going to carbon copy
[00:20:40] Because man, so wish I could
[00:20:42] So wish I could carbon copy so many different people
[00:20:45] But the reality is that
[00:20:47] I'm not them and God's not going to use me
[00:20:50] In the same way that he used them
[00:20:53] And if he was going to do that
[00:20:55] Man, it would make ministry so much easier
[00:20:59] If God was just like, hey
[00:21:01] I brought my son Jesus
[00:21:03] He did it perfectly
[00:21:05] Now you're following him, guess what?
[00:21:06] Carbon copy
[00:21:07] You're going to do it perfect too
[00:21:09] You're going to have a great ministry
[00:21:11] Thousands are going to get saved
[00:21:13] And they're going to plant churches all over the world
[00:21:15] And then they're going to say your disciples
[00:21:17] Turn the world upside down
[00:21:18] And we're just going to repeat this pattern over and over
[00:21:20] How wonderful would that be
[00:21:22] But
[00:21:25] Man, I mean so I want to talk a bit
[00:21:28] Because
[00:21:30] There's emotion in all of this
[00:21:33] Right?
[00:21:34] Because the realization
[00:21:36] Number one of almost
[00:21:38] Feeling suppressed
[00:21:40] And I have to fit the mold that has been given to me
[00:21:44] Of
[00:21:46] Maybe this isn't my giftings, these aren't my callings
[00:21:48] But this is what I have to do
[00:21:50] Because it's what is expected of me
[00:21:52] Right?
[00:21:53] And I think that that can go for male or female
[00:21:56] Pastor, pastor's wife
[00:21:58] Church planter
[00:21:59] Also church planter
[00:22:01] I think it goes both ways
[00:22:03] So how
[00:22:05] How is that?
[00:22:06] Because you talked a bit about the first four years of view
[00:22:09] And it's married
[00:22:10] And it's being difficult
[00:22:12] And struggling through it
[00:22:14] And different things
[00:22:15] And you said you invited people in
[00:22:17] I'm curious
[00:22:18] As to if that was people in
[00:22:21] Copper Swar
[00:22:22] Or is that
[00:22:23] People outside
[00:22:25] And speaking into your relationship
[00:22:28] And kind of encouraging you both
[00:22:30] That's a great question
[00:22:34] Yeah, for us at that time
[00:22:36] We didn't have people on the outside
[00:22:38] I definitely didn't
[00:22:40] As a woman
[00:22:41] As a wife I definitely didn't
[00:22:42] And that's on a bash
[00:22:43] It wasn't a bit
[00:22:44] It wasn't
[00:22:45] We weren't set up that way
[00:22:47] So the people that really came in
[00:22:49] It was our Hungarian people
[00:22:51] That we were ministering to
[00:22:53] And what people that we were ministering with
[00:22:55] You know that came and supported us
[00:22:58] And so many ways
[00:22:59] They became family
[00:23:01] You know, we needed help
[00:23:03] We needed people
[00:23:04] That was the early days with when
[00:23:06] Odd he was a brand new
[00:23:08] Believeery
[00:23:09] She's one of she was our nurse
[00:23:10] And invites her
[00:23:11] But she was a brand new
[00:23:12] Believeery and
[00:23:13] Copper Swar
[00:23:14] And she stepped into a space
[00:23:16] And she really connected with
[00:23:17] Karina
[00:23:18] Karina was just a little tiny baby
[00:23:20] And that was a huge help
[00:23:22] That was a huge help
[00:23:23] That's like in a lot of ways
[00:23:24] They could have been like
[00:23:26] Oh no, this is my job
[00:23:27] I'm the mother
[00:23:28] You know, and again
[00:23:30] Not taking advantage or taking for granted
[00:23:32] You know, people coming in
[00:23:34] We're not there to use people
[00:23:36] We're not there to try to like get people
[00:23:38] To do our work
[00:23:40] That's a balance as well
[00:23:41] But there was
[00:23:42] That time like a really authentic
[00:23:44] Sweet
[00:23:45] Since airplanes we were serving
[00:23:46] What you're doing
[00:23:47] It's too
[00:23:48] Our class mecloth
[00:23:49] This guys are amazing
[00:23:50] They're 10 years older than us
[00:23:51] So they had a lot more
[00:23:52] Wised up and it came to marriage
[00:23:54] And we were able to
[00:23:55] Glean from them
[00:23:56] And receive from them
[00:23:57] It was humbling
[00:23:58] You know, and then they had a baby
[00:24:00] They had a little boy the same age as Krona
[00:24:02] We tried for over 10 years to get pregnant
[00:24:04] And we weren't able to
[00:24:05] And then by chance
[00:24:06] Which I know is God's divine
[00:24:08] Time me that keep
[00:24:10] Prepared us up with the Hungarian
[00:24:12] Serbian couple
[00:24:13] That were 10 years older than us
[00:24:15] But they had a child the same age as ours
[00:24:18] And so it was just such a sweet thing
[00:24:20] Like man, god like
[00:24:22] But I think in my own insecurity
[00:24:23] Or pride, it could have pushed those people out
[00:24:25] Thinking like, oh no, or the leaders
[00:24:27] Where this word we need to have it
[00:24:28] But together
[00:24:29] We need to be really
[00:24:30] And when we were able just to be like, yeah
[00:24:32] We need you
[00:24:33] You need us
[00:24:35] We need you and we became like a
[00:24:37] Forming body
[00:24:38] Right out with that
[00:24:39] Of people like even though we are
[00:24:41] Just this total dysfunctional
[00:24:42] A little group
[00:24:43] But it was like we're going to work together
[00:24:45] You know, and we could give and receive
[00:24:48] And that's been sort of kind of the model
[00:24:50] That how we look the fight for and serve
[00:24:53] Is about giving and receiving
[00:24:55] From people within the church
[00:24:57] So the fact that it's just a one way
[00:24:59] You know, one sided thing
[00:25:01] Absolutely
[00:25:02] And my my my my question would be
[00:25:07] How how was that?
[00:25:10] Because it can be I mean
[00:25:12] When you're in a different culture
[00:25:13] And you're doing a church plant
[00:25:15] And you're supposed to be having this hat of authority
[00:25:18] Right for you and Phil
[00:25:20] Transparency is hard to come by
[00:25:22] And it's hard to be
[00:25:25] Especially with co-labours
[00:25:27] Because it almost is if you are
[00:25:31] Disrobing your self-righteousness
[00:25:35] And showing your skin
[00:25:37] And saying here's the flesh that you have
[00:25:40] The option to put ointment on and heal
[00:25:44] Or inflict wounds
[00:25:46] And so
[00:25:49] Was that a point of vulnerability
[00:25:52] That you recognized
[00:25:54] Or is that something that you look back on
[00:25:56] Are like wow, God was gracious in that
[00:25:59] Because
[00:26:00] You know
[00:26:01] Yeah, I mean I definitely see God's grace
[00:26:03] I definitely don't we were not emotionally developed
[00:26:06] Or mature
[00:26:07] We didn't have the verbiage that we have now
[00:26:09] Or we didn't know like what it really looked like
[00:26:12] To be like authentically vulnerable
[00:26:14] And like that healthy sense of the word
[00:26:16] I'm saying like it was it was God's grace
[00:26:18] And what I see that he used like the honesty
[00:26:21] And I found the space that in being a woman
[00:26:24] Who's in desperate mood of God and my marriage
[00:26:28] I had huge opportunity to be able to minister to other women
[00:26:32] To be a mother
[00:26:34] And desperate need of God's wisdom
[00:26:36] And raising for children
[00:26:38] I have huge open doors
[00:26:40] To share with people
[00:26:42] Not as a person who has it all finished and done
[00:26:46] It was someone like
[00:26:47] Man, I need I need God
[00:26:50] Would you come with me?
[00:26:52] You know, it was like it was a partnership
[00:26:55] Everything that we got to do
[00:26:56] And ministering to people
[00:26:57] It was always like we're in need of God
[00:26:59] We might be a few steps ahead
[00:27:02] And some things of like we never break open the scripture
[00:27:05] We're going to lead you in scripture
[00:27:06] But we're also on our knees meeting God
[00:27:09] There was never a season in our life
[00:27:11] And I'm still on the mission field
[00:27:13] I still say the San Diego as our mission field
[00:27:15] To I don't feel like we've retired
[00:27:17] Or that we've moved back
[00:27:19] It's like we're just moved relocated
[00:27:22] And I'm so desperate for God
[00:27:26] I'm so I'm so in need of God
[00:27:28] You know, in my marriage
[00:27:30] With my kids, with my grandkids
[00:27:33] You know, and I hope that that will
[00:27:35] Be, I mean, at least for my personality
[00:27:38] And the way I am, the week I was wired
[00:27:40] And you're like, God's greatly used to be able to be an instrument
[00:27:45] To like, let's go to the Lord
[00:27:47] Because I need the Lord
[00:27:49] And if you're coming to me
[00:27:50] Because you need me
[00:27:51] I'm going to support you so fast
[00:27:53] So fast
[00:27:54] And I want to be a, I want to represent Christ
[00:27:57] I want to be a good example
[00:27:59] But my greatest example
[00:28:01] I believe is someone who is in need of God
[00:28:04] And that I think is something that
[00:28:06] We can often struggle with
[00:28:08] When we have done great things
[00:28:11] And the thing is
[00:28:13] Is that no one can, no one can deny the fact
[00:28:16] That what has happened in Hungary
[00:28:19] As far as the movement of God's spirit
[00:28:23] And the churches that were planted
[00:28:25] And the mission that has been capable
[00:28:28] Even even to, to now
[00:28:30] To wartime, you know, in Ukraine
[00:28:33] Having it be effective
[00:28:35] Even for such a time as this
[00:28:37] No one can say that great things weren't done
[00:28:40] And that you guys weren't a major major part of it
[00:28:43] But to then say, hey, look, it doesn't matter
[00:28:46] If you look to me
[00:28:48] I'm going to sorely disappoint you
[00:28:50] Because I was desperately in need of Jesus
[00:28:53] And I still am
[00:28:55] Exactly
[00:28:56] The full time
[00:28:57] Because I think, because when we touch the glory
[00:28:59] And trust me, we touch the glory a lot
[00:29:01] And we love the attention
[00:29:03] Especially when the church was really going off
[00:29:06] But what happens when you, when you're glorified
[00:29:09] And you're lifted up and you're respected
[00:29:11] And you're honored
[00:29:13] People love you, they honor you
[00:29:15] But at a drop of the hat they hate you
[00:29:17] That's how quick the glory can be
[00:29:21] Steifolded when it's about yourself
[00:29:23] And we've had to learn that the hard way
[00:29:25] Trust me, trust me we have
[00:29:27] We definitely touch the glory
[00:29:29] We tried to claim it for ourselves
[00:29:31] That we got to be a part of something great
[00:29:33] And I'm forever forever
[00:29:35] Greatful to God
[00:29:37] For letting us be a part of an amazing
[00:29:39] I'm a part of the spirit and hungry
[00:29:41] I don't take glory for it
[00:29:43] And the minute we try to touch the glory
[00:29:45] And like, yeah, we were really charged
[00:29:47] And we really like made it impact
[00:29:49] And it's like
[00:29:51] It's like the same people who like love does
[00:29:53] They hate us now
[00:29:55] And that's what happens when you try to take the glory
[00:29:57] And so it's a danger
[00:29:59] It's a scary thing
[00:30:01] We've had to learn it for give us forever
[00:30:03] Trying to take the glory
[00:30:05] It's always been because of what you did
[00:30:07] Hmm, that's beautiful
[00:30:24] That's good
[00:30:26] So now you guys are in San Diego
[00:30:28] I just want to close that loop of
[00:30:32] You guys were in hungry
[00:30:34] Amazing things happened
[00:30:36] You handed over the church to Hungarians
[00:30:38] You're in San Diego now
[00:30:42] And God kind of put you guys in a position
[00:30:44] In San Diego
[00:30:46] Not as a church plant
[00:30:48] But almost as a church replant
[00:30:50] Correct
[00:30:52] That's it, good way of putting that helps us
[00:30:54] Because I think if we don't see it like that
[00:30:56] We can be super discouraged
[00:30:58] Because taking over the Buddha Pest church
[00:31:00] Was like the sweetest gift that was ever handed to our hands
[00:31:02] Greg
[00:31:04] Greg handed something to us
[00:31:06] Like we were just so honored
[00:31:08] And like what we got to experience for those 10 years in Buddha Pest
[00:31:10] Was just a gift
[00:31:12] And when Yani when it was time
[00:31:14] It was just such a sweet hand-off to Yani
[00:31:16] And like it was just like a
[00:31:18] Like your cherished like a little baby
[00:31:20] That you're handed into someone that you know
[00:31:22] It's gonna love them even better
[00:31:24] And do you know we had to charge 100
[00:31:26] You know he's gonna go for it
[00:31:28] And that's what's happening in Buddha Pest
[00:31:30] And we're so thankful
[00:31:32] But we knew we were coming into a place
[00:31:34] That was dysfunctional and hurting and broken
[00:31:38] And so yeah taking over a church
[00:31:40] It's been very difficult
[00:31:42] And it's very humbling
[00:31:44] But we've had to kind of continue to like have in the Fartherna Lermaine that
[00:31:48] We're missionaries
[00:31:50] We're coming to do a replay
[00:31:52] Let's go do something fresh
[00:31:54] It's not about like pulling down all the old you know
[00:31:57] And just for the sake of you know
[00:31:59] Terran the old down
[00:32:00] It's just like for everyone to allow you to do something fresh
[00:32:03] So for example for me it like
[00:32:05] We came into a church that had a women's ministry for
[00:32:08] 3 years
[00:32:09] We ended women's ministry
[00:32:12] And like culturally speaking
[00:32:14] In America like I did the ultimate you know thing
[00:32:18] And I'm still getting pushed back for it
[00:32:20] But it's like we're not trying to do things just to cause trouble
[00:32:24] We really aren't
[00:32:25] But we do see ourselves as a missionaries
[00:32:27] One of the super Lord just said
[00:32:28] You know and something fresh
[00:32:30] And that just like he had to tear things down in hungry
[00:32:32] And each and Europe
[00:32:33] They all had to be torn down in order for us to experience
[00:32:36] And we'll move the spirit
[00:32:38] And that was something that we did he did it
[00:32:40] We know
[00:32:41] But there is that level of like having to be obedient
[00:32:44] Walk in obedience in the spirit counter cultural sometimes
[00:32:47] Just you want it's your own culture
[00:32:49] You know
[00:32:50] Well and it's almost as if you guys were
[00:32:53] You guys were gone from American culture for so long
[00:32:56] It's almost as if we talk about this podcast a lot
[00:33:00] For people who do cross cultural ministry
[00:33:02] You learn that that culture
[00:33:05] And if you're in that culture long enough
[00:33:07] It's no longer something you've learned
[00:33:09] It's something you live
[00:33:11] You live that culture
[00:33:12] That culture is your culture you identify with it
[00:33:15] And then when you leave that culture
[00:33:17] And you go back to your home culture
[00:33:19] Your beginning culture
[00:33:21] You then are relearning something that you should know
[00:33:24] But don't anymore
[00:33:26] So you feel like you don't fit in fully in your home culture
[00:33:29] And so you're relearning that
[00:33:31] And you're trying to understand why
[00:33:33] Americans do things the way that Americans do things
[00:33:36] When you've been doing life in another country
[00:33:39] And so it's that whole shift
[00:33:41] So you guys are not only dealing with
[00:33:43] Trying to reformat
[00:33:47] Who you guys are as Americans
[00:33:50] In America when you've been so long in Hungary
[00:33:54] And are almost identified more as Hungarians
[00:33:57] Than you do Americans
[00:33:59] As well as figure out
[00:34:02] You know what is church culture
[00:34:04] Like in America right now
[00:34:06] We get glimpses of it as far as social media is concerned
[00:34:09] And stuff but that's usually pretty skewed
[00:34:12] So how was that process for you guys?
[00:34:15] I'm sure that there's again just a ton of emotions
[00:34:19] For you and for Phil and for the kids
[00:34:21] And for everyone in the whole situation
[00:34:25] And so I'm just curious that first
[00:34:28] Year two years of that replant
[00:34:32] How was that dealing with pushback
[00:34:34] Feeling with you know again
[00:34:36] Cross cultural ministry of reaching
[00:34:38] Americans and all that kind of stuff
[00:34:41] Yeah
[00:34:43] It was difficult
[00:34:46] It was very very difficult
[00:34:48] The transition was much harder than we had expected
[00:34:51] Even though I think we tried to
[00:34:52] We had the conversation
[00:34:54] We knew it was going to be difficult
[00:34:55] But it was definitely more difficult
[00:34:57] Than we had anticipated
[00:35:00] And we're still in transition
[00:35:02] It's been five years that we've been in San Diego
[00:35:04] I still feel like I'm personally still in transition
[00:35:07] I think we're like the Lord sort of determined things
[00:35:10] And obviously having like my
[00:35:12] Weakly highlights with Karissa
[00:35:14] It's been so encouraging and so valid
[00:35:16] And to be able to still have contact with my missionary friends
[00:35:19] And be a support to them
[00:35:20] And actually it feels me that I
[00:35:23] I'm still on mission
[00:35:25] And what's happened is I think when we moved
[00:35:27] From Koppershwar to Vaita
[00:35:29] And then again from Vaita to the Budapest
[00:35:31] We guess we were Hungarian
[00:35:33] But more so God began to give us a heart for the world
[00:35:36] So especially Vaita
[00:35:37] Like even though like we definitely
[00:35:39] Identify his Hungarian
[00:35:40] But like God began to expand
[00:35:42] Even in those early days
[00:35:44] And I don't even know that we realized it
[00:35:46] But he began to give us like this world culture
[00:35:49] And even like in Budapest
[00:35:51] Even though like it was predominantly Hungarian
[00:35:53] Congregation but Budapest is pretty international
[00:35:56] And he even like these amazing opportunities
[00:35:58] Like you know around Europe
[00:36:00] And around and so it was like
[00:36:02] We weren't like God was like expanding us to not just Hungary
[00:36:05] And I don't think we fully realized that
[00:36:07] Why we are there because we were just trying to like
[00:36:09] Be you faithful to where he was leading us
[00:36:11] But he's definitely called us to something
[00:36:13] Like as the world
[00:36:15] And so I think as we found our feet
[00:36:18] And I'll go back to like this first two years
[00:36:20] For sure specifically
[00:36:21] But just really quick I wanted to say
[00:36:23] We've been able to like find our space
[00:36:25] And communicating to our church
[00:36:29] That God's called we love San Diego
[00:36:31] We're here we're 100% like invested
[00:36:33] But we want to give you a world perspective
[00:36:36] A global perspective
[00:36:38] That we don't have to have an American perspective
[00:36:40] Or your PNX perspective
[00:36:42] We want to have a global perspective
[00:36:44] And when you have a global perspective
[00:36:46] Connected to the gospel
[00:36:47] I think it's really what we're all craving
[00:36:49] It really is
[00:36:51] So I think like my first like cool
[00:36:53] I mean I had so many culture shocks
[00:36:55] When I first stepped into
[00:36:56] Cabri San Diego
[00:36:58] One of the first Sundays that we got there
[00:37:00] I had a lady approached me
[00:37:02] And asked me what my vision was for the women's lounge
[00:37:05] The women's bathroom
[00:37:06] I thought I'm going to decorate that
[00:37:08] And I was like
[00:37:10] I was so offended and I was so hurt
[00:37:12] Like because that was kind of the
[00:37:14] And that time like that's what the pastor's wife
[00:37:17] That was her thing
[00:37:19] She decorated the women's bathroom
[00:37:22] And the lounge and she had like
[00:37:23] And that's nothing against
[00:37:24] People who have a eye for design and decoration
[00:37:28] It's so not my it's not my way
[00:37:31] It's always like personally
[00:37:33] Like my personality was like offended
[00:37:35] And it was like well what's when's our next women's tea
[00:37:37] And you know I drink tea
[00:37:39] I'm all about tea
[00:37:40] I'm more of a coffee girl
[00:37:41] But I totally will drink tea
[00:37:43] But it was that whole tea party scene
[00:37:45] That I was like man
[00:37:46] Is this where it is?
[00:37:47] Is this what we've come back to?
[00:37:49] You know and just having to slowly steer that ship
[00:37:51] I think there was a lot of us
[00:37:53] We wanted just like just turn that ship as hard as we could
[00:37:57] And then everyone would have fallen out of the boat
[00:37:59] So we've had to learn to slowly steer things
[00:38:02] And it's been painful
[00:38:04] It's been hurtful in a lot of ways
[00:38:06] But it's been humbling
[00:38:07] Like where we've had to just like okay
[00:38:09] God what is your heart for the world
[00:38:12] And like what is that going to look like here in San Diego
[00:38:15] And that's when God's open doors
[00:38:17] Like in Mexico
[00:38:18] And like even with Ukraine
[00:38:19] And like so many things
[00:38:20] And I think the craziest thing is
[00:38:22] Like we were in a thriving ministry
[00:38:24] And put a press
[00:38:25] The church was like going off
[00:38:26] And our kids
[00:38:28] Most they didn't walk with the Lord
[00:38:30] You know
[00:38:31] And now we're in San Diego
[00:38:32] Well, we are feeling like we were in a sinking ship
[00:38:35] And all of us and our kids started like
[00:38:37] One by one give their life to the Lord
[00:38:39] And sort of to really commit their hearts to him
[00:38:41] And it's really fine their own place with the Lord
[00:38:44] And so it's been, it's been a trade-off
[00:38:47] I mean there's been highs and lows on both sides
[00:38:50] But that's why I really strongly feel this
[00:38:53] And I told this with Chris
[00:38:54] So this morning is like
[00:38:55] We have to see the whole picture of who we are
[00:38:58] So for myself as a wife
[00:39:00] As a mother, as a grandmother
[00:39:02] As a church planter, as a missionary
[00:39:04] It's all included
[00:39:06] It's not a separate entity of who I am
[00:39:09] And the struggles and like when my kids were little
[00:39:12] And I thought oh man, there's a distraction to my calling
[00:39:15] They weren't a distraction
[00:39:17] They weren't a distraction
[00:39:18] They were the tools that got needed to use in my life
[00:39:21] And even times when my kids were super like in rebellion
[00:39:25] And doing things that like nobody in the church were doing
[00:39:28] It wasn't to exploit their struggle
[00:39:30] But it was like they were showing their humanity and our humanity
[00:39:34] And that's when the gospel was being able to
[00:39:36] It was received in such a
[00:39:38] And then a credible way in Budapest
[00:39:40] Not so much in America
[00:39:42] It's a whole different culture of like struggle and weakness
[00:39:47] And then we've had to learn like
[00:39:49] Okay, God, what does it look like to be vulnerable
[00:39:52] And to be honest and to be real
[00:39:54] And a lot of people are not okay with your leaders
[00:39:57] Pulling off your righteous robe
[00:39:59] They're not okay with that
[00:40:00] And so it's been challenging
[00:40:02] To be like okay, God
[00:40:04] Like we've found our own and like serving people in humanity
[00:40:09] And our flesh and our and who we are by the spirit
[00:40:12] And it's a different culture in America
[00:40:15] Where they want you to put on the, you know
[00:40:18] Be a statue, be an image of God for us
[00:40:22] Be a leader, lead us, you know
[00:40:24] And I don't see that about everyone
[00:40:25] But there's a certain level of like
[00:40:28] They want that
[00:40:29] They want you to be that
[00:40:32] And again, we're having to like step into the culture of like
[00:40:36] But that's not what God's called me to be
[00:40:38] I'm gonna, I'm still, I want to be an example
[00:40:41] I'm not here to stumble people
[00:40:43] I'm not here to like try to be carnal and crass
[00:40:46] And you know, let's not our heart and all
[00:40:48] Sorry if I ramble a lot
[00:40:50] No, no, no, that was, no
[00:40:52] The thing is is that's beautiful
[00:40:55] And I actually want to, I actually want to pull back
[00:40:57] To something that you said that
[00:40:59] I think is important for church painters
[00:41:01] To hear
[00:41:03] Because we get so caught up
[00:41:07] And you know, oh I've got to do this for the church plan
[00:41:10] I've got to do that for the church plan
[00:41:12] There's so many things distracting me
[00:41:14] My kids, my wife, my home
[00:41:16] The laundry, the dishes, this thing
[00:41:18] That thing like, oh I just want to be about this
[00:41:21] This, the holy thing, right?
[00:41:23] And something you said
[00:41:26] is not just an application, and I want to
[00:41:30] Emphasize this, it's not just an application for
[00:41:33] Wives of church painters
[00:41:35] I hate even saying wives of church painters
[00:41:39] Women who church plant, it's not just an application for them
[00:41:43] That is an application for every single church
[00:41:46] Plants are male or female
[00:41:49] Your children, your home, is your responsibility
[00:41:54] And is your blessing
[00:41:57] To serve the community and magnify the Lord in
[00:42:02] Period, full stop
[00:42:04] And that doesn't guarantee you that your children are going to walk with the Lord
[00:42:09] Like there's no guarantees in that game
[00:42:12] You know, we've watched it far too often in church culture
[00:42:16] Where we think just because the pastor is the pastor
[00:42:19] That the pastor's child is going to be the next pastor
[00:42:23] And it's just like sometimes that works out
[00:42:26] And God bless that
[00:42:27] But most of the time, a lot of the time
[00:42:30] You know, that's not how that works
[00:42:32] And it's usually, you know, the Lord coming
[00:42:35] And chasing those whom he loves
[00:42:37] And we hate to say it but we love to watch it happen
[00:42:41] Because it's beautiful at the end
[00:42:43] It's terrifyingly scary
[00:42:47] During the chase, but as soon as God wrapped his arms around them
[00:42:53] It's beautiful
[00:42:54] And that it reminds me of that line in the line in the which the Wardrobe
[00:43:00] About Aslan
[00:43:02] About he is not a tame lion
[00:43:05] And off when he captivates you
[00:43:07] When he gets you in his claws
[00:43:10] It's not painful in the sake for the sake of pain
[00:43:14] But it's painful for the sake of glorification
[00:43:17] And that's such a beautiful thing
[00:43:19] And so I wanted, I just needed to highlight that
[00:43:22] Because I think that that is can be missed
[00:43:25] Or as a man in this space
[00:43:29] That can be shifted
[00:43:31] To, oh, that's for her
[00:43:33] And no
[00:43:35] And I want to put my foot down firmly on that
[00:43:38] And say absolutely not
[00:43:40] Absolutely not
[00:43:42] It's not for her
[00:43:44] It's for us
[00:43:45] We are church planting
[00:43:47] Karissa is just as much
[00:43:49] If not more
[00:43:51] But more
[00:43:52] Church planting
[00:43:54] You know, she is essential
[00:43:57] Without her, there isn't
[00:43:59] Church planting
[00:44:01] And she would say vice versa
[00:44:03] The same thing
[00:44:04] And so
[00:44:06] That transition, I want to transition a bit
[00:44:10] Into for you to give
[00:44:13] Not advice to women
[00:44:15] I don't, I'm not asking you for advice for women
[00:44:18] I'm asking you for advice for church planters
[00:44:22] What advice would you give church planters
[00:44:25] And specifically church planters who might be stuck in it
[00:44:29] I don't, I hate the word archaic
[00:44:32] Because it has so much negative connotation
[00:44:35] Attached to it
[00:44:37] I don't mean this negatively
[00:44:39] But if you haven't progressed in your understanding of church planting
[00:44:44] Being both male and female
[00:44:47] Men and women
[00:44:49] Planting churches
[00:44:51] What would you, what advice would you give them
[00:44:55] What, what, what would you encourage them to think through
[00:44:58] And meditate on?
[00:45:01] Well, that's okay
[00:45:04] Well, I don't, I don't know if I have advice
[00:45:06] I definitely hope to be like an inspiration
[00:45:08] And encouragement to anyone who would be willing to listen to my voice
[00:45:12] But I, I, I, our, our invitation to missions
[00:45:16] Or to church plant
[00:45:18] It's such an incredible privilege
[00:45:20] And it's an opportunity to step into a place
[00:45:23] It doesn't make us better
[00:45:24] Or more holy than any other Christian
[00:45:26] But there's a, it's, it's an intense place
[00:45:29] Is step into and if we're willing
[00:45:31] God is going to meet us
[00:45:33] Like you're saying and he's going to
[00:45:35] He's going to develop us in the process
[00:45:37] In the journey
[00:45:39] And we're going to be changed
[00:45:41] And we need to let that happen
[00:45:43] And it's not about being changed
[00:45:45] And to like some kind of worldly philosophy
[00:45:47] Or, you know, being conformed to the, you know,
[00:45:49] Into the world
[00:45:50] We are, we are invited into a place
[00:45:52] To, to lead people
[00:45:54] To present the gospel to people
[00:45:56] And so we personally need to be allowing the gospel
[00:45:59] To be transforming us on the continuum
[00:46:01] It has to, it has to be together
[00:46:03] I mean, I feel so passionately about that
[00:46:05] Like no matter what we're doing
[00:46:07] We need to continually let the Lord
[00:46:09] By his spirit
[00:46:11] Be transforming us seeing what he's done
[00:46:14] And what he wants to do
[00:46:15] So I see like missions
[00:46:17] 2023 is so different than when we were first
[00:46:19] On the mission field back in 98
[00:46:21] You know?
[00:46:22] But that doesn't make me feel like
[00:46:23] Oh man, that was then
[00:46:25] It was like man, how do we learn
[00:46:27] How do we inspire?
[00:46:28] How do we encourage the next generation
[00:46:30] It's going to look different
[00:46:31] It's going to have different struggles
[00:46:32] It's going to have different adventures
[00:46:34] Even
[00:46:35] But just step into it and allow the Lord to meet you
[00:46:38] And go spaces
[00:46:39] Not just in the success
[00:46:40] Not just in the like the fruitful part of the ministry
[00:46:43] But in the, the waiting
[00:46:45] And the, the, the, the, the, the, the
[00:46:47] The times where you're going
[00:46:49] Why am I here?
[00:46:50] I could be doing this so much easier
[00:46:51] Back in my home country
[00:46:53] It's not true
[00:46:54] It's not true
[00:46:56] Everywhere we go
[00:46:57] There's going to be struggle
[00:46:58] And there's going to be difficulties
[00:47:00] But when you're leading
[00:47:01] When you're doing what God's called to do
[00:47:03] There is, there is something
[00:47:05] That is just such a, it's such a privilege
[00:47:07] And I think, you know, now
[00:47:09] Living back in my home country
[00:47:10] It's not that I'm like fantasizing of
[00:47:12] Oh, missions or that life
[00:47:14] I remember the struggle
[00:47:15] I do
[00:47:16] But the struggle or the privilege
[00:47:19] Of being able to serve
[00:47:21] God full time
[00:47:22] On the foreign field
[00:47:24] It's such a gift
[00:47:26] And it outweighs all the struggle
[00:47:28] And there's always going to be a struggle
[00:47:30] There's always going to be things that are painful and hard
[00:47:33] But doesn't it, isn't that not to sound cliché
[00:47:36] Or, but isn't that what the word teaches us
[00:47:38] Isn't that what, you know, Paul,
[00:47:40] You know, throughout the scripture
[00:47:42] We talk about it's the testing of our faith
[00:47:44] That produces true character in our life
[00:47:46] That's developing a maturity
[00:47:48] And completion and who we are
[00:47:50] So like why would we see that
[00:47:53] First hand is as leaders or pilgrims
[00:47:56] Or church planters or missionaries
[00:47:58] Or whatever we identify as
[00:48:01] Like, as like we're going to be the four runners
[00:48:04] Of the testing of our faith
[00:48:06] The challenges of the trials
[00:48:08] But it's for the greater good
[00:48:10] That we would be changed
[00:48:11] And that we would be developed
[00:48:12] And matured
[00:48:13] And that we wouldn't let those test
[00:48:15] And those trials
[00:48:16] You know
[00:48:18] Just slip us up
[00:48:21] And I know, I mean, it's easier said than done
[00:48:23] I'm all over the place
[00:48:24] I've been tripped up so much these past few years
[00:48:27] But I also see that God's changing me
[00:48:30] And he's developing me and he's maturing me
[00:48:33] And I need it
[00:48:37] I need it
[00:48:38] And I think if we approach life
[00:48:40] And the calling you'll got upon our life
[00:48:42] That man, God's called us
[00:48:44] But it doesn't mean that there's not character
[00:48:46] And development that needs to be
[00:48:49] Produced in the process
[00:48:51] You know, it's a beautiful journey
[00:48:53] If we'll just accept it
[00:48:55] Oh, you know
[00:48:56] Yeah, no, 100%
[00:48:58] I can't say amen to that enough
[00:49:00] As far as, you know
[00:49:02] This is a beautiful journey
[00:49:04] If we're willing to
[00:49:05] If we're willing to accept the fact
[00:49:07] That we're imperfect
[00:49:09] And I think that that is where
[00:49:12] That's almost where
[00:49:14] When we're digging for gold
[00:49:17] We're not going to be a good man
[00:49:18] So, this is a great way
[00:49:20] You know, you don't stop at
[00:49:22] You know, the bedrock
[00:49:24] You go further, you go deeper
[00:49:27] You want to find the treasures
[00:49:29] Just because you found a little bit of
[00:49:31] Solidity
[00:49:32] Doesn't mean that you've hit
[00:49:34] The depths of treasure
[00:49:36] That you're searching for
[00:49:38] And that's man, that's so important
[00:49:41] Because that's what the world is looking for
[00:49:43] They find moments of solidity
[00:49:45] Those moments collapse
[00:49:47] And they're not solid enough
[00:49:49] They don't last long enough
[00:49:51] And we're the ones who are like
[00:49:53] Look, we're going down for gold
[00:49:55] We're not going down for a
[00:49:57] A temporary stable position
[00:50:01] We're going down for the most stable position
[00:50:05] And so yeah, I can't agree enough
[00:50:08] That's got glory
[00:50:10] Like that
[00:50:11] Let us always be pressing in
[00:50:13] I don't want to be that person that's like
[00:50:15] Live enough the good old days, the glory days
[00:50:17] And hungry, like we've
[00:50:18] We tapped in, we've experienced it
[00:50:21] I don't want my the rest of my life
[00:50:23] To be talking about what I experienced
[00:50:25] I wanted the rest of my life
[00:50:26] And it doesn't have to look the same
[00:50:28] But I want to keep pressing in
[00:50:29] Like to the glory of God
[00:50:31] Whatever that's going to look like
[00:50:32] It doesn't have to be revival
[00:50:33] I didn't have to be this major move
[00:50:35] Move the spirit like it wasn't put up
[00:50:37] But I want to keep like you're saying
[00:50:39] Like pressing in
[00:50:40] I'm not going to fully be in that
[00:50:42] Until we're in heaven
[00:50:43] And so why wouldn't we keep charging
[00:50:45] Until the end
[00:50:46] Why do we feel like we need to like
[00:50:48] Retire out like okay
[00:50:50] I've done this and that
[00:50:51] I've been you know
[00:50:52] I have these accomplishments on my belt
[00:50:54] Now I'm going to tap out
[00:50:55] No, like man
[00:50:57] I want to be in the game
[00:50:58] As long as God will let me
[00:50:59] I want to be actively a part of what he's doing
[00:51:02] Not from my glory
[00:51:03] But for God's glory
[00:51:05] Because that's what we like you're saying
[00:51:07] We're craving something more
[00:51:08] And that's what we're craving for
[00:51:10] We're craving the glory of God
[00:51:12] To be exemplified in and through our lives
[00:51:15] You know
[00:51:16] Yeah, yeah
[00:51:17] 100% and that can only be satisfied in one way
[00:51:21] And that is by pressing in
[00:51:23] That is by seeking
[00:51:24] That is by a willingness of
[00:51:26] A quarry ten boom
[00:51:29] Type of mentality of
[00:51:31] My hands are open place
[00:51:33] Or take what you will
[00:51:35] And having that beauty in in just a willingness
[00:51:40] I think is is so essential
[00:51:43] The last the last thing that I want to ask
[00:51:46] Is how can we
[00:51:50] As as people in this space
[00:51:53] As an infinite
[00:51:55] I'm not even going to go there
[00:51:57] I'm not an influencer in this space
[00:51:59] I'm not influential in this way
[00:52:00] But as as as for me
[00:52:03] Right, I host this show for CGN
[00:52:06] I want to
[00:52:09] I want to be intentional
[00:52:13] About women in church planting
[00:52:16] And
[00:52:18] I'm I'm sad to say that
[00:52:21] I don't see that
[00:52:22] Intentionality
[00:52:24] In a lot of areas
[00:52:26] In regards to this space
[00:52:28] How can we be better
[00:52:30] Because
[00:52:31] Women in this space
[00:52:33] Deserve a voice
[00:52:35] Not only
[00:52:37] You know, is it something that
[00:52:39] I believe
[00:52:41] Is required of us to give
[00:52:43] Because
[00:52:45] You are God's creation
[00:52:48] Who
[00:52:49] Is exemplifying him in
[00:52:52] Every breath
[00:52:54] And every willing
[00:52:55] Step that you've taken a faith
[00:52:57] To follow him
[00:52:59] But also
[00:53:01] You are an active participant
[00:53:03] Women are an active participant
[00:53:05] With interch�planting
[00:53:07] So how do we give
[00:53:09] Honor and
[00:53:11] And
[00:53:12] Exemplify
[00:53:15] And give them space
[00:53:17] For a conversation for their voice
[00:53:19] To be heard
[00:53:20] Yeah, well I think what you're doing
[00:53:22] Disphi normalizing
[00:53:24] And even allowing me to talk
[00:53:25] And like, you know, I'm still working
[00:53:27] Through my own
[00:53:28] Understanding of where that
[00:53:30] What does it look like as a woman
[00:53:32] And who to be, you know, in the calling
[00:53:34] That God has to remain
[00:53:36] I think what I think what
[00:53:38] What helps is
[00:53:40] When we can read a lot of books
[00:53:42] And you just quoted like a
[00:53:43] Quaritian Boone
[00:53:44] And I love her quote
[00:53:45] But I hate the actual
[00:53:47] Living out of that
[00:53:48] Of that quote
[00:53:49] So we all stand
[00:53:52] By certain strong convictions
[00:53:54] And theologies that we hold
[00:53:55] About women
[00:53:56] And that's okay
[00:53:57] We can have we can
[00:53:59] But even in our understanding
[00:54:01] Or the way things have been broken
[00:54:02] Of like where a woman's role is
[00:54:04] Was in the church
[00:54:05] With them church planting
[00:54:07] But us like keep
[00:54:09] Getting to know women
[00:54:11] And getting to know men
[00:54:12] And getting to know people
[00:54:13] And getting to hear people
[00:54:14] Just like you're
[00:54:15] Lowing on this podcast
[00:54:17] Of like we can see that man
[00:54:19] God is so loving
[00:54:21] And so gracious
[00:54:22] That he will use all of us
[00:54:24] And any of us
[00:54:26] And help me to never
[00:54:27] And I think
[00:54:28] I think other women do
[00:54:29] This to other women
[00:54:30] Is like
[00:54:31] We put out
[00:54:32] But my shortcomings on
[00:54:33] Other women
[00:54:34] Well you can't be
[00:54:35] Because I can't be
[00:54:36] And instead
[00:54:37] Let's learn to be
[00:54:38] A appreciative
[00:54:39] To the body of Christ
[00:54:40] And to the people that
[00:54:41] God's chosen to use
[00:54:42] And the different personalities
[00:54:44] And I think with an arm movement
[00:54:45] The handful of women
[00:54:46] That are in the front lines
[00:54:48] I feel so far from them
[00:54:51] Because I don't have their personalities
[00:54:53] And so I can put up a wedge between
[00:54:55] Me and whatever
[00:54:57] I'm not going to throw the names
[00:54:58] But you know like
[00:54:59] And feel like well I'm not like that
[00:55:00] But I'm not meant to be
[00:55:02] I'm just meant to be who
[00:55:03] God's made me to be
[00:55:04] And I'm not trying to
[00:55:06] To touch the glory
[00:55:07] I'm not trying to take
[00:55:08] Something away
[00:55:09] For myself
[00:55:10] And that goes for men
[00:55:11] Or women
[00:55:12] If we're doing something
[00:55:14] To try to
[00:55:15] To make a name for ourselves
[00:55:17] Or try to prove ourselves
[00:55:19] Then that's a check in our own
[00:55:20] Hearts
[00:55:21] That we need to allow the Lord to examine
[00:55:23] And to expose and to work through
[00:55:25] And if this is just a theological question
[00:55:27] About where is the place for a woman
[00:55:29] And it's like, and again I'm not trying to over simplify
[00:55:31] People's convictions
[00:55:32] And you know but
[00:55:33] I think there's just a place of like
[00:55:35] I just want to keep
[00:55:36] Skepping into what God's called
[00:55:38] Be To Do and called me to be
[00:55:40] And I want to be a person
[00:55:41] That's encouraging other women
[00:55:43] And men who are stepping into God's will
[00:55:45] And I hope I'm someone who's cheering
[00:55:47] them on
[00:55:48] Not like crossing the Tees
[00:55:49] And doubting the eyes
[00:55:50] But going man
[00:55:51] She's out there
[00:55:52] She's charged
[00:55:53] She learned how how how
[00:55:54] How can it be a part in prayer
[00:55:55] How can a partner with them
[00:55:56] And prayer?
[00:55:57] How can it be a part of that
[00:55:58] How can it be someone that just
[00:56:00] Like cheers them on
[00:56:01] Because that's what people did for us
[00:56:03] We were young
[00:56:04] We were inexperienced
[00:56:05] We had all the things
[00:56:06] We were all the things that people wanted
[00:56:07] That theologically put us on
[00:56:08] You know
[00:56:09] Disqualify us
[00:56:10] I wanted to disqualify myself
[00:56:12] There were many times that I could be
[00:56:13] Disqualify
[00:56:14] But guess what
[00:56:15] Is on our qualifications
[00:56:16] It's a grace and mercy of God
[00:56:18] That calls us into serving him
[00:56:20] I'm not saying that they're space for sin
[00:56:22] But I'm saying that as we step into
[00:56:24] What God's called is to in our frail
[00:56:26] Toe and our shortcomings
[00:56:27] And allow God to do what he wants to do
[00:56:29] She will
[00:56:30] He'll show up
[00:56:31] He'll do it
[00:56:32] Man our female
[00:56:33] Jesus is broken down
[00:56:34] Every barrier between male and female
[00:56:36] Between slave and slaveholder
[00:56:38] He's broken those barriers down
[00:56:40] And so I want to be
[00:56:41] I want to walk in that freedom
[00:56:42] I want to walk in that freedom
[00:56:43] I want my own relationship with Christ
[00:56:44] And I want to be a friend
[00:56:46] And who's like cheering on the next generation
[00:56:48] To walk in freedom
[00:56:50] So that God's name will be
[00:56:51] Will be known throughout this land
[00:56:53] Throughout the world
[00:56:54] It would be like the enemy who wants to
[00:56:57] Divide us
[00:56:59] So that nothing happens
[00:57:01] That we'll just sit back in our offices
[00:57:03] And break open theology
[00:57:05] And debate over these things
[00:57:06] And be divided
[00:57:07] And then we never do anything
[00:57:09] I want to be about it
[00:57:11] I want to be in it
[00:57:12] And then if there's things
[00:57:13] And if there's things that I need to like
[00:57:14] Corral
[00:57:15] The Lord still needn't to develop in me
[00:57:17] I'm ensuring me
[00:57:18] Okay, please do
[00:57:19] I acknowledge
[00:57:21] I need that
[00:57:22] But I hope I'm doing it
[00:57:24] I'm on the way
[00:57:25] And the Lord led me
[00:57:26] That's one of our favorite
[00:57:28] Versus in the disciples
[00:57:29] We're on the way
[00:57:30] And Jesus led them
[00:57:32] So let us be on our way
[00:57:33] And if we're off track on something
[00:57:35] If I'm as a woman
[00:57:36] That's supposed to be
[00:57:37] Okay God
[00:57:38] Just show me where it's supposed to be
[00:57:39] Show me my place
[00:57:40] I'm going towards you
[00:57:42] I'm not going towards a devalmination or a movement
[00:57:44] I'm not going towards my own
[00:57:46] Roll and position
[00:57:48] I'm just wanting to press and towards you
[00:57:50] And if I'm off, please stare me
[00:57:52] And trust me
[00:57:53] That's a whole other podcast
[00:57:54] If you want to see all the time
[00:57:55] We were veering off
[00:57:56] And God by his grace
[00:57:57] Let us back
[00:57:58] You know
[00:57:59] Absolutely
[00:58:02] I again
[00:58:03] Just
[00:58:04] You're killing it
[00:58:05] As far as
[00:58:06] Just tips and tricks
[00:58:07] And all of it
[00:58:08] I mean
[00:58:09] Like genuinely
[00:58:10] I think that we can over-complicate things
[00:58:11] And we can come up with
[00:58:13] These certain institutions that tell you how good you are
[00:58:17] And how qualified you are
[00:58:19] And how
[00:58:20] You know, abundantly gifted you are in this area
[00:58:22] Not gifted in that area
[00:58:24] And different things
[00:58:25] But
[00:58:26] Man to just say
[00:58:27] I just care about being close to Jesus
[00:58:30] And you watch when the disciples
[00:58:34] And when that's what they only care about
[00:58:36] I just want to be close to Jesus
[00:58:38] And then you watch them
[00:58:40] When they're like
[00:58:41] I want to do things too
[00:58:43] And that's when Jesus is like
[00:58:45] Well, now we've got a problem
[00:58:47] That's right
[00:58:48] When we start questioning
[00:58:49] Well, where's my position
[00:58:50] Am I going to the left or on the right
[00:58:51] The hand of Jesus
[00:58:52] Where do I fit?
[00:58:53] Where do I sit?
[00:58:54] And that's when we start to muddle
[00:58:55] The waters
[00:58:56] But when we're just focused on him
[00:58:58] We're just walking on the water
[00:58:59] Like man
[00:59:00] We're experiencing glory
[00:59:02] I'm so thankful
[00:59:04] What a gift
[00:59:05] You know
[00:59:06] Let us be a focus on those things
[00:59:08] And he'll make it clear
[00:59:09] He will
[00:59:10] Yeah
[00:59:11] Amen
[00:59:12] Amen
[00:59:13] We'll join
[00:59:14] Thank you so much for taking the time
[00:59:16] For this hour
[00:59:17] Long podcast
[00:59:18] I'm so glad it was this long
[00:59:20] I'm so glad that we could get into the conversation
[00:59:22] And there's so much more new ones
[00:59:24] And I genuinely
[00:59:26] I want to say this is definitely not covered
[00:59:28] The gambit
[00:59:29] That is women in church planting
[00:59:31] So
[00:59:32] If at all possible
[00:59:34] I would love to get you back on the podcast
[00:59:36] But I so appreciate it
[00:59:39] And I'm honored that you took the time to be on the show
[00:59:42] Thank you so much
[00:59:43] It's my pleasure
[00:59:44] It's such a privilege
[00:59:45] You get to talk about these things
[00:59:46] It's like the joy of my heart
[00:59:47] So thank you for giving me the opportunity
[00:59:49] Absolutely
[00:59:50] Absolutely
[00:59:51] Well, blessings
[00:59:52] Alright
[01:00:03] Well, I want to say
[01:00:04] Thank you
[01:00:05] To joy
[01:00:06] Again
[01:00:07] Just for her
[01:00:08] Character
[01:00:09] For her
[01:00:10] Wisdom
[01:00:11] For her humility
[01:00:12] In
[01:00:13] Talking about
[01:00:14] Some hard parts
[01:00:15] About her time
[01:00:17] As a
[01:00:18] Church planter in Hungary
[01:00:20] And a re-church planter
[01:00:22] In San Diego
[01:00:24] And I hope that we can learn some things
[01:00:26] From from joy's perspective
[01:00:28] And I hope to have her back on the podcast again
[01:00:32] And I really appreciated everything
[01:00:34] That she had to say
[01:00:35] I thought that there was some impactful conversation
[01:00:38] That I enjoyed as the host
[01:00:42] And I enjoyed just
[01:00:44] Just spending time with her
[01:00:46] And listening to what she had to say
[01:00:48] And hearing her
[01:00:49] Her wisdom in this space
[01:00:51] Which I think we need more of
[01:00:53] I think we need to invite
[01:00:55] More women
[01:00:56] Of Church planting
[01:00:58] Into this space
[01:00:59] To speak truth
[01:01:00] To give us insight
[01:01:02] Where we might be missing it
[01:01:04] And so I really enjoyed having joy
[01:01:06] On to joy
[01:01:07] Again, thank you so much
[01:01:08] You are
[01:01:09] Amazing
[01:01:10] You are a star
[01:01:11] And we love
[01:01:13] And appreciate everything
[01:01:14] That you said and everything that you
[01:01:16] Have done in the past
[01:01:18] And are doing now in San Diego
[01:01:31] Well, that wraps up
[01:01:33] Season 2 of temporary tenants
[01:01:35] I hope that you guys enjoyed this season
[01:01:37] As much as I did
[01:01:39] I feel like we covered so many different topics
[01:01:41] On Church planting on missions
[01:01:43] On cross-cultural ministry
[01:01:45] On women in church planting
[01:01:47] The different aspects of why church plants fail
[01:01:51] And how we can learn from them
[01:01:53] And how we don't have to be afraid of the conversation
[01:01:56] About church plants failing
[01:01:58] And looking at them and looking at that right in the face
[01:02:02] Thinking about Ray Orland
[01:02:04] You know, episode 1
[01:02:06] What is real church
[01:02:08] You know, an air-eric hope
[01:02:10] Talking about
[01:02:11] RIP church planting
[01:02:13] And Frank Wooden
[01:02:14] You need a mentor
[01:02:16] Why do you need a mentor
[01:02:17] As a church planter
[01:02:18] And Jordan Silva
[01:02:20] On unconventional church plants
[01:02:22] Doing church planting differently
[01:02:24] In a coffee shop
[01:02:25] And in a co-savo
[01:02:27] Missional church planting
[01:02:28] So many different things were covered
[01:02:30] And it was such a beautiful season
[01:02:31] So I hope that you guys enjoyed it
[01:02:33] As much as I did
[01:02:35] I am making a plan for next season
[01:02:38] I will be updating you guys
[01:02:41] Via social media
[01:02:42] And I might repost a few episodes
[01:02:45] From season 1
[01:02:46] That maybe some of our audience has missed
[01:02:49] But I am going to take the next
[01:02:51] Month and a half to pray
[01:02:54] And seek the Lord for what he wants
[01:02:56] Season 3 to look like
[01:02:58] I'm excited
[01:02:59] I've got a few ideas
[01:03:01] So be on the lookout for that
[01:03:03] I'll be updating you guys periodically
[01:03:05] But as always
[01:03:07] I hope that I pray
[01:03:09] That you continue to magnify
[01:03:12] And glorify the Lord
[01:03:13] In whatever season you find yourself in
