230. Interview With Marie Aitken About How To Keep Talking About Jesus Simple.

[00:00:09] Hi friends, welcome to Making Disciples. My name is Cris Rogers and I am your host. I hope you had a good year. If you're listening to this in real time, it'll be early January. If you're listening to this in an ad hoc manner, I can't help you. Sorry, I don't know what time of year it is. But for those of us listening in real time, it's early January 2025. I hope you had a great Christmas and New Year. We are back for this new year. And I've got a couple of interviews the next couple of weeks, which I am super excited about.

[00:00:38] So Making Disciples is about exploring discipleship. We talk about it in terms of loving and obeying God with your head, your hands and your heart. So head is what we're learning, what we know about God. Heart is, yes, it's about compassion. Yes, it's about confession and sin. It's about what is shaping our internal life. Then you've got your hands, you know, how do you do the stuff that Jesus did?

[00:01:06] And today's episode is maybe you could say maybe a little bit of each, but definitely is leaning towards hands. How do we do the stuff? And Mari Aking, she's been on the podcast before, works for Alpha, works with Hillsong.

[00:01:22] And she's just an exceptional person. Noah through Spring Harvest. And she's been leading Alpha with us at Spring Harvest for the last number of years. We are so blessed for her and her ministry.

[00:01:34] She's brilliant. And she's written a book, Keep It Simple, How to Share Your Jesus Story with Clarity and Confidence.

[00:01:40] And when I saw her book, what she'd been writing about, I got so excited because many of us find sharing our faith so difficult.

[00:01:47] And what's so interesting is she doesn't talk about evangelism. She's talking about sharing your Jesus story.

[00:01:54] And you may say to yourself, look, I'm not an evangelist. That's not what my gifting is.

[00:01:58] I'm just, yes, you may not be an evangelist, but we're all told in Scripture that we need to be ready to share our story.

[00:02:06] Like, what has Jesus done for us? And some of us might think, well, I don't have much of a story.

[00:02:11] But you do. Every single one of us has a story which relates to Jesus.

[00:02:16] And you may have not been a drug dealer or a drug addict or spent time in prison.

[00:02:19] But trust me, if you have come to know Jesus as your Lord, as your Savior and as your friend, you have a story.

[00:02:25] You have a story to tell of what the difference he's making in your life.

[00:02:28] So she talked about that in the book. Brilliant book. I really want to encourage you.

[00:02:33] I'm going to put a link to it in the show notes because I do think it's worth really getting hold of a copy and have a look.

[00:02:38] It's not very long. When I say it's not very long, I don't mean sometimes be quite quality to length.

[00:02:46] And that really isn't the case at all.

[00:02:49] Some of my favorite books that I've ever written by Tom Wright, Rowan Williams, all very short.

[00:02:55] Very short, but to the point. And that's one of the great things about this book.

[00:02:58] It's nice and short, but it's to the point.

[00:03:00] So I'm going to interview Mari and just talk about the book and sharing faith and maybe how do we come to know what our story is.

[00:03:08] So I hope this is really a blessing for you as we start 2025.

[00:03:14] Friends, if there's anybody that you'd like to hear me interview, let us know.

[00:03:19] You know, sometimes if I can approach somebody and say, hey, one of our listeners would love me to interview you.

[00:03:23] People love that.

[00:03:24] So let me know if there's anybody you think you would like me to interview on the podcast.

[00:03:28] I'd love to hear. Anyway, let's jump in.

[00:03:30] A conversation with Mari about keeping it simple.

[00:03:43] Mari, welcome to Make Your Disciples for the second time.

[00:03:47] I know. What a privilege.

[00:03:48] You've had me back. Thank you.

[00:03:50] There's not many people that get back twice.

[00:03:53] Wow.

[00:03:53] Yeah.

[00:03:54] I'm on it.

[00:03:56] I was so keen to get you back after last time.

[00:04:01] Probably because you dropped some things that I never knew about you, like you were in EastEnders as a kid.

[00:04:06] I never knew that.

[00:04:07] But you've just put out a book, Keep It Simple.

[00:04:12] Yeah.

[00:04:13] And I just thought this was fab.

[00:04:16] And I'd love to talk to you about it because I don't like the word evangelism.

[00:04:21] Not because we don't believe in it.

[00:04:24] Because it just, it's had really bad PR.

[00:04:27] And most people go, oh, I can't do that.

[00:04:31] Yeah.

[00:04:31] What you've crafted here is a beautiful little book about how to share our story.

[00:04:36] What made you write it?

[00:04:38] I think, do you know, it comes back to actually, I don't like the word evangelism either.

[00:04:42] But I work in that world.

[00:04:44] And I think the minute you talk about evangelism, people opt in or opt out.

[00:04:48] They kind of associate it with a gift.

[00:04:51] And it's like, I either have it or I don't.

[00:04:53] And it's actually everyone's commission to go and share the good news and make disciples, as we all know.

[00:04:59] And part of that comes with how do we relationally talk about our faith?

[00:05:03] And I think I created it for a couple of reasons, Chris.

[00:05:06] So let me share them.

[00:05:07] I mean, obviously, I've been working in the world of evangelism for coming up to a decade now.

[00:05:14] A little bit longer with other organizations.

[00:05:16] And I have seen people really struggle with getting from A to B, getting from I really want to see my friends and my family, you know, know Jesus the way I do.

[00:05:27] But I just don't know how to do it.

[00:05:30] And I don't know what to say.

[00:05:31] And then it's getting over this big barrier of fear.

[00:05:35] And then you throw the word evangelism in the mix.

[00:05:38] And it's like, well, totally opting out.

[00:05:39] Other people are just better than me at doing this.

[00:05:42] And I think I've always had an itch to want to put something in that space to really equip people.

[00:05:49] But then kind of post-COVID, people's world's really shrunk.

[00:05:54] People's confidence really took a hit.

[00:05:57] And I think churches, particularly, again, kind of with the work that I do, I get to see that kind of national scale of what the church is up to.

[00:06:06] They kind of had to go really kind of back to basics again and really teach people just how to do rhythm in life, how to kind of be back in community, how to, you know, pray, how to worship, how to be in each other's homes and spaces.

[00:06:21] That just the idea of even sharing Jesus kind of went on the back burner.

[00:06:26] And every church leader I speak to, they're spending their time and their really precious time that they have in front of their congregations doing other things.

[00:06:38] And I wanted to provide a resource that would really be a gift to a church leader to say, hey, put this in the hands of your congregation.

[00:06:47] This takes care of the how.

[00:06:49] So you can really cast the vision of the why.

[00:06:53] You can spend your precious time in front of your congregation, you know, talking about why we do what we do.

[00:06:59] And this takes care of the how we do it.

[00:07:02] So it kind of came in two directions.

[00:07:04] I've kind of seen the need for it for a while.

[00:07:06] And then I felt like the time was right now just to help really build the confidence.

[00:07:11] And it is, it's everybody's role, everyone's responsibility to be able to share Jesus in a way that is natural, authentic and real.

[00:07:20] And so my hope is that this becomes a real gift to church leaders where they're able to really roll it out to their congregation so that every single person feels like they can say, this is why I believe in Jesus because this is how he changed my life.

[00:07:36] Yeah.

[00:07:37] And I wish I'd got this four months ago.

[00:07:40] We just did a whole thing with our small groups at church where people were invited to share their testimonies.

[00:07:46] Oh, amazing.

[00:07:47] And we kind of gave them a bit of an outline.

[00:07:49] So, you know, share your testimony because if you can share it with your small group, then you'll be able to practice sharing it then with someone else.

[00:07:55] And it was so simple, isn't it?

[00:07:58] Sharing our stories.

[00:07:59] But we make it, we think evangelism is more about debating faith than we do sharing faith.

[00:08:09] And I think when we debate, we feel like we need to know the answers because I'm going to get quizzed on what I say.

[00:08:15] And then we panic.

[00:08:16] Like, it's actually what we're saying.

[00:08:18] It really comes out of Acts, isn't it?

[00:08:20] Where Jesus says, you will be my witness.

[00:08:22] Yes.

[00:08:22] The whole thing about being a witness is we're just going to tell what we'd seen.

[00:08:26] We're not going to make it up.

[00:08:27] We're not going to try and argue with somebody's corner.

[00:08:29] We're just going to tell people this is what I've seen.

[00:08:32] And therefore, it is as simple as telling stories.

[00:08:36] Yeah, it is.

[00:08:36] And that's why the third chapter is called You Know The Answer.

[00:08:41] It's because I'm trying to address this idea of you don't know every answer, but you know the answer.

[00:08:45] You know Jesus.

[00:08:46] Yeah.

[00:08:46] And our job is really to signpost people to him.

[00:08:50] And that's why the story is rooted in the narrative of the woman at the well who basically signposts everybody from her village, her town, back to Jesus.

[00:09:01] You know, through her story, her transformation.

[00:09:05] And that's kind of the direction I take people on when they read the book is that actually you don't need to know everything.

[00:09:12] You just need to know your story, know it well, back to front, you know, sideways so you can tell it and retell it over and over again.

[00:09:19] But you know Jesus.

[00:09:20] You know the answer.

[00:09:22] And that's all you need to signpost people to.

[00:09:24] And that's why I love the story of the woman at the well.

[00:09:27] That's why it captured me so much to write this and kind of do it through her narrative.

[00:09:32] So tell us a little bit more about that.

[00:09:35] When you say, you know, you loved her story, you wanted to use it as narrative.

[00:09:39] Tell us, you know, some people might not know her story.

[00:09:42] Yeah, sure.

[00:09:43] So give us an idea of her story and actually how then you, how did you use it?

[00:09:47] Yeah.

[00:09:48] So John Form, beautiful encounter where the woman at the well, she's coming midday to get her water.

[00:09:54] She's going midday because she's been rejected and isolated by her community because of her lifestyle.

[00:10:00] And there at the well, there is Jesus.

[00:10:03] He's done a detour, but we know nothing's a detour with Jesus.

[00:10:06] And they have this incredible conversation where Jesus kind of tells her everything about her world, about her life.

[00:10:14] And I can almost imagine it's kind of this moment of like, you know, the walls being pulled off her eyes.

[00:10:20] She can see clearly in front of her, you know, you are the son of God.

[00:10:23] And she has this incredible encounter.

[00:10:26] And I think what really gripped me and what really kind of made me start to love this story even more is there's a moment where she's had this realization that she's speaking to the son of God.

[00:10:36] And the disciples come back to the well and they say, like, why is Jesus talking to this woman?

[00:10:43] And Jesus goes and Jesus is like, you know, leave me to it.

[00:10:47] And she runs back to her village.

[00:10:49] And it was this realization that stood around the well was the son of God.

[00:10:55] Men who are used to being articulate and talking about Jesus and her.

[00:11:00] But she realized that in that moment, there was no better person to talk to her people other than her.

[00:11:07] She didn't ask Jesus to go into her village.

[00:11:10] She didn't ask these men to go back to her people.

[00:11:13] She dropped her water jar and she ran back to her people and she told her story.

[00:11:18] And I think that moment was what really gripped me to kind of unpack like every verse, because it just made me realize that nobody is better at telling your story than you, regardless of your circumstances.

[00:11:32] You know, she was isolated.

[00:11:34] She wasn't light.

[00:11:35] You know, people didn't listen to her.

[00:11:36] But none of that mattered because she had a radical encounter with Jesus.

[00:11:40] And, you know, she's a woman in that era.

[00:11:43] We know that that carries no authority yet because she had spiritual authority because she met the son of God.

[00:11:49] She knew she was the right person to talk like it.

[00:11:51] I think it just captured me.

[00:11:53] And it made me realize if she can drop her water jars in the presence of Jesus and men who are, you know, speakers and teachers and run to her people,

[00:12:03] then we can all drop our water jars and run to our people, too, and talk about our encounters.

[00:12:09] And, yeah, from there, I was hooked, absolutely hooked.

[00:12:13] And I kind of unpacked the whole story kind of verse by verse, you know, and really kind of look at how did she respond?

[00:12:20] What did she say?

[00:12:21] How did she react?

[00:12:22] You know, what does she do to signpost people?

[00:12:26] And actually really kind of get under the skin of the story.

[00:12:29] And I end it.

[00:12:31] I mean, I'm giving all of this away now.

[00:12:33] But I end it with the fact that it says many people believed, not all people believed, you know,

[00:12:39] and I think we kind of think we're going to go back to our people and tell this radical story and everybody's going to be, you know, transformed.

[00:12:46] And actually they're not.

[00:12:47] And she had to still live in that village after this.

[00:12:51] She had to still live with this maybe kind of brand new community of believers, but still some people that didn't.

[00:12:56] And actually the tension that she lived in in that space with a new faith.

[00:13:01] I think we can all take that to heart.

[00:13:04] You know, I've been guilty of going abroad and doing a missions trip and believing it's so much easier to talk to people about Jesus 2000 miles away.

[00:13:12] But actually we've got friends and family who only we are uniquely positioned to reach.

[00:13:19] No one else is.

[00:13:21] And we're responsible for talking to them.

[00:13:23] No one else is.

[00:13:24] I love that.

[00:13:26] Now you aren't giving it all away.

[00:13:28] I know.

[00:13:29] I'll stop.

[00:13:29] But I'd love to just explore with you.

[00:13:35] You talk about it in the book here as how to craft your story.

[00:13:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:13:40] And I think this is what I would love to hear from you on a little bit.

[00:13:43] You know, for many of us, we just don't know where to start.

[00:13:47] We don't know what the meat of the conversation should be.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:52] We do worry that we've got to try and get the entire Nicene Creed in there or the Apostles Creed or something.

[00:14:00] Yeah.

[00:14:00] And we've heard that we ought to be praying prayers with people at the end.

[00:14:04] And, you know, it becomes so laden.

[00:14:06] We worry about what, you know, how do we do this?

[00:14:08] Actually, we don't do anything.

[00:14:10] And, yeah.

[00:14:11] So, you know, would you just talk us through, you know, how do we go about crafting our story?

[00:14:16] Yeah.

[00:14:17] Yeah.

[00:14:17] And I use the framework of past, present, future or past, present invitation where we really kind of touch on, you know, what was your life like before Jesus?

[00:14:29] What, what's it like in your present?

[00:14:31] And then what could their potential future be the invitation?

[00:14:34] And using the example of when we talk about a past, paint a picture, it doesn't necessarily have to be detailed.

[00:14:43] You know, you don't have to talk about substance, like what you were addicted to.

[00:14:49] You can say I had addictions, you know, or how many relationships you were in.

[00:14:54] You can talk about inappropriate relationships.

[00:14:55] I kind of give some language in that space.

[00:14:58] But basically kind of what does it look like painting a picture of what your life like was like before Jesus?

[00:15:05] And then here's the most important bit, because I think we've heard many testimonies and I'm sure those who are listening have heard many, many testimonies.

[00:15:12] You have to talk about your present, because I think where where testimonies fall down is when people go 20 years ago, I said yes to Jesus.

[00:15:20] And now I think you should too.

[00:15:22] I think he would do wonders for your life.

[00:15:25] And actually, people who are listening want to know what's the impact Jesus is making in your life today?

[00:15:30] You know, are you are you still following Jesus?

[00:15:34] Are you someone who is still growing in your faith?

[00:15:36] So I use this idea of using your past.

[00:15:39] I actually talk about my story in the book as well.

[00:15:41] And I use the example of how I craft it.

[00:15:44] So, you know, before I knew Jesus, I had inappropriate relationships.

[00:15:48] I did have addictions.

[00:15:50] All of those things were kind of who I was.

[00:15:52] And I felt alone and I felt empty.

[00:15:55] But then I met Christ.

[00:15:56] And, you know, all of a sudden this love of rush came into me.

[00:15:59] And now 20 years has passed.

[00:16:01] And since then that love has never left me.

[00:16:03] You know, my faith has grown.

[00:16:05] Things have come our way.

[00:16:07] But I know that I'm loved by God and he is in my present day.

[00:16:10] And I know that my future and my trust is in him.

[00:16:12] And it's kind of that language that really helps people go.

[00:16:16] It doesn't need to be detailed.

[00:16:19] It doesn't need to have every single sin you've ever done in your life, you know, outlined.

[00:16:24] And it isn't about you.

[00:16:26] It's about the difference that Jesus has made in your life.

[00:16:30] So I use the analogy of paint a picture with Jesus is the center of it, you know.

[00:16:35] And then your present is talking about what have you grown?

[00:16:39] You know, how do you know you're loved now?

[00:16:41] What is Jesus making, you know, in your life different?

[00:16:45] Because people are listening to that.

[00:16:47] They're listening to, you know, not just your past and the transformation that you had decades ago or a few years ago.

[00:16:56] They want to know today how does your faith affect who you are?

[00:17:01] And then I talk about the future or the possible invitation, you know, how can you then extend their next step?

[00:17:08] And I think, again, this is where a lot of people lack confidence.

[00:17:12] Like you said, they feel like they should kind of outline, you know, the whole salvation prayer.

[00:17:17] And if they don't know it, they won't say it.

[00:17:18] But actually, it could be as simple as inviting them into, you know, a service or an alpha or a small group or a community or anything that's going on where they can encounter people who know Jesus.

[00:17:34] Or if you're feeling brave in that moment, inviting them into, I'd love to pray for you.

[00:17:40] Is that OK?

[00:17:41] And if they say no, that's fine.

[00:17:44] But just inviting them into their possible next step.

[00:17:48] That's kind of where I take people that it doesn't have to be this big, massive thing.

[00:17:54] It's natural.

[00:17:55] It's your story.

[00:17:56] And their next step can be as simple as I'd love you to come to this with me or I'd love to pray for you or I'd love to meet up with you next week and hear your story or something like that.

[00:18:07] Just something.

[00:18:09] I love it.

[00:18:10] So you talk about the past, the present and the invite.

[00:18:12] Yeah.

[00:18:12] It's so simple.

[00:18:13] I'd love to ask you some of the questions that I get asked and see how you might answer this.

[00:18:19] So one of the questions that I get is that that's fine, Chris, for you if you've got an interesting story.

[00:18:25] Yeah.

[00:18:26] But I have a really boring story.

[00:18:29] And, you know, there was no drugs.

[00:18:32] There was no relationships.

[00:18:35] And, you know, life is just kind of tinkled along and there's been no big traumas.

[00:18:40] And, you know, what do you say to somebody who approaches their life from a position of actually it's just really boring?

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:48] There's there's a story that really transformed my life.

[00:18:52] And it's the one that really signposted me towards Jesus.

[00:18:56] And just to kind of give everyone listening a little bit of a picture as to what life used to be like.

[00:19:04] Every single week, my youth leaders would do this big, massive altar call and I could see the side eyes on me.

[00:19:10] I could see them being like, is this the week she says yes?

[00:19:13] And I'm like, no.

[00:19:14] And people would like share these big stories and I'd be like, that's great for you.

[00:19:20] And then it was a friend who came alongside me who, you know, very plainly said, Mari, my life is nothing like yours.

[00:19:30] I don't want to rebel.

[00:19:32] I'm loved.

[00:19:33] My family are great.

[00:19:34] We go to church every Sunday.

[00:19:37] And I know that I'm loved.

[00:19:39] And I just wish you knew that you were loved too by God.

[00:19:42] And it was just this this beautiful authenticity of her story.

[00:19:49] You know, boring.

[00:19:51] If you want to kind of put a label on it.

[00:19:53] Absolutely nothing.

[00:19:54] She was a straight A student.

[00:19:55] She was perfect, you know.

[00:19:57] And I wasn't.

[00:19:58] And I realized that that was everything I wanted in life.

[00:20:01] I wanted to be loved.

[00:20:03] I wanted to have stability.

[00:20:06] I wanted to have security.

[00:20:07] I wanted to have community.

[00:20:09] And that's the story that signposted me to Jesus.

[00:20:13] And actually, that's that's the story that most people do have.

[00:20:18] And when we look at our church congregations, you know, many people have grown up in secure homes or they've grown up within the church and they've known God all their life.

[00:20:28] Or I appreciate that is everyone.

[00:20:30] Yeah.

[00:20:30] That is the majority of people I'm talking to, at least.

[00:20:33] And their story, they've got no idea the impact their story can have.

[00:20:39] That was the story that transformed my life.

[00:20:42] Yeah.

[00:20:42] You just don't know what people need to hear.

[00:20:45] You just don't know what people are craving.

[00:20:48] You know, the longings of their heart.

[00:20:51] What you say could be exactly what they need to hear to signpost them to Jesus.

[00:20:56] So as long as we make nothing up, we give our real truth of what, you know, our life is like and we share it well.

[00:21:06] Yeah.

[00:21:07] Every story has massive impact.

[00:21:09] Yeah.

[00:21:10] We forget, don't we, that so often we think that everybody's life is filled full of these major highs and major lows.

[00:21:17] There are many people who are living in the UK and in Europe and further afield whose lives are just, you get up, you go to work.

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:26] You do what you need to do.

[00:21:27] You come home.

[00:21:28] You look after your family.

[00:21:30] You go to school.

[00:21:31] Whatever it is, you just get on.

[00:21:34] That's where most people are living their lives.

[00:21:36] And, you know, I've got friends who have got amazing testimonies that involve shotguns and dealers and robberies.

[00:21:42] And, you know, actually when I hear their stories, they're great, but that's not, that's not my life.

[00:21:48] No.

[00:21:48] No, at all.

[00:21:50] So actually the normal mundane is really important.

[00:21:54] The one thing I say to people is just dig a little deeper because your story does have those moments where you've cried out to God,

[00:22:03] those moments where you've said, God, you know, I'm praying to you now for something.

[00:22:06] And, you know, if you would just pause and reflect a little bit, there probably is some moments where you've said, Lord, show up.

[00:22:13] I need you to show up.

[00:22:15] So it's, you know, it's the whole witnessing thing, isn't it?

[00:22:18] And you might think that your story is boring, but that moment when you prayed for somebody and that miracle happened,

[00:22:25] or just that little thing happened, they're the things we're witnessing to.

[00:22:30] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:22:31] So we don't need the big.

[00:22:32] Actually, we just need where God showed up in our story.

[00:22:35] And also your present, you know, like the fact that you know that you have a hope and a future,

[00:22:41] the fact that you know that you're never alone because God is with you,

[00:22:44] the fact that you know, you know, your eternity is secure,

[00:22:48] like all of these things that you know, that you forget that you know,

[00:22:54] they really speak into people that are lost, that are lonely, you know,

[00:22:58] that are worried about what's happening in their life, that feel hopeless,

[00:23:05] that feel purposeless.

[00:23:06] Like you just don't know what is going on in someone's heart.

[00:23:11] And you know more than you do, I think is what I really wanted to kind of get to in this book,

[00:23:18] is that you really do.

[00:23:19] I love that.

[00:23:21] Can we talk about the present?

[00:23:22] Yes.

[00:23:23] I don't know what to pass a little bit, but the present.

[00:23:25] So in the present, you're talking about, you know, what's it like now with God?

[00:23:28] Yeah.

[00:23:30] And there are some people who do seem to still say,

[00:23:34] I just don't know what difference God has made in my life because he's always been there.

[00:23:38] I just don't know.

[00:23:40] Yeah.

[00:23:41] How would you, you know, how would you coach somebody who was maybe,

[00:23:45] oh, I don't really know, you know, I've always been a Christian.

[00:23:47] It's always been like this.

[00:23:48] How would you coach people to just unpick that a little bit so they can see what the difference God has made?

[00:23:55] Yeah.

[00:23:56] I think if it's someone that has kind of grown up with a faith all their life and is still kind of very active in their life,

[00:24:03] I would talk about, you know, what does it mean to you to have the rhythm of being in community?

[00:24:09] What does it mean to you to be in spaces where the presence of God is evident?

[00:24:15] You know, how do you feel that, you know, God has impacted your life?

[00:24:20] Maybe you're not hearing the voice of God.

[00:24:22] Maybe you're not seeing the manifestation of miracles.

[00:24:25] But you have this kind of silent, undercurrent rhythm of knowing God is present in your life.

[00:24:32] Like, what does that feel like knowing that?

[00:24:34] And a lot of people talk about, oh, it gives me peace.

[00:24:38] You know, oh, it gives me assurance.

[00:24:40] And I'm just and then I kind of say, what do you think it's like for someone that doesn't have that in their life?

[00:24:45] Yeah.

[00:24:46] And they kind of put themselves in the shoes of someone else and they go, oh, OK, I have something, if that makes sense.

[00:24:53] And, you know, again, like not everyone's story is seeing the healed, seeing people sick healed, you know, seeing things miraculously happen in front of them.

[00:25:03] But they can identify with what would it be like if everything was absent from their life.

[00:25:10] Yeah.

[00:25:10] And then place themselves in someone else's shoes and go, oh, OK, I have something.

[00:25:15] And because I think we really did kind of talk to our people and we said, you know, you do have a story to tell.

[00:25:22] And, you know, you may not feel like you're growing all the time in your faith, but you have a faith.

[00:25:29] And, you know, you are a child of God.

[00:25:31] What does that mean to know that you have a heavenly father?

[00:25:34] What does that mean when he speaks scriptures over your life to say that you have a hope and a future?

[00:25:39] How does that make you feel?

[00:25:41] OK, now everyone that doesn't know this feels the opposite.

[00:25:46] Yes.

[00:25:47] Go out and give them hope.

[00:25:50] And I think that's the direction I would take it in.

[00:25:53] And because I truly believe everyone does have a story and everyone has an experience.

[00:25:58] Everyone does have a past and a present in some capacity.

[00:26:02] And you just don't know what people need to hear.

[00:26:05] I was having coffee with a friend recently and she did say to me, Chris, I don't know what God's doing in my life.

[00:26:13] And I'm sat there going, how can you say that?

[00:26:16] This is somebody who went on the Alpha course years ago and actually came to faith.

[00:26:20] And, you know, comes from a background that is not Christian.

[00:26:25] I don't want to give too much away because it's not my story.

[00:26:27] But, you know, they're not from the UK.

[00:26:29] They do come from another global religion.

[00:26:34] And I don't really, you know, I can't see how Jesus is making much difference.

[00:26:38] And I had to slow her down and said, look, can I feedback a few things?

[00:26:42] Yeah.

[00:26:42] And I suddenly realised that actually sometimes we do need each other to, you know, actually this is the difference this is making.

[00:26:50] Can't you see this?

[00:26:51] Yeah.

[00:26:51] When we were doing our testimonies in our small groups, it filled me, you know, on the book cover you talk about clarity and confidence.

[00:27:00] Yeah.

[00:27:00] Actually, the more I heard others tell their story, the more it gave confidence to me as well.

[00:27:05] Oh, yeah.

[00:27:06] Your story is amazing.

[00:27:07] Your story is amazing.

[00:27:10] And actually, sometimes you need others to go, hang on, but don't, you didn't say this bit.

[00:27:14] Yeah.

[00:27:15] The members of my group who had forgotten some key bits of their story.

[00:27:19] And I was like, no, but you didn't mention this thing that I know about.

[00:27:22] Yeah.

[00:27:23] Absolutely.

[00:27:23] So maybe something around if you're wanting to work out how to tell your story and you think it's either boring or you can't see the difference Jesus is making, having somebody else reflect back to you can be really, really good, can't it?

[00:27:37] It's like coaching each other.

[00:27:39] Practising with one another is just the best thing to do, you know, because before you go and tell your story to someone else, definitely tell it to someone, you know, a friend first to get their feedback.

[00:27:50] And, you know, even time one another, like, ah, how long did that take?

[00:27:54] You know, because I think short and sweet is great.

[00:27:58] You know, people's attention spans are quite short these days.

[00:28:00] So if you can concisely tell your story well is brilliant.

[00:28:04] So even having a friend that isn't just kind of listening out for inconsistencies or actually, I know this about your story you didn't mention.

[00:28:12] Having someone there with a kind of stopwatch to be like, that took you 18 minutes.

[00:28:18] Let's bring it down.

[00:28:21] Um, that's super helpful.

[00:28:22] So yeah, that's the book and the series as well.

[00:28:26] Like they are designed to be standalone, but within community too.

[00:28:30] So within group settings as well, because I do think it, we sharpen each other.

[00:28:34] Iron sharpens iron.

[00:28:35] Like the minute we can get alongside one another and build confidence in each other.

[00:28:41] Um, you know, we're ready to go, aren't we?

[00:28:43] I'm going to ask you about the series in a minute.

[00:28:46] Hmm.

[00:28:46] Cause I want to know more.

[00:28:47] Can I ask you one last question about the invite?

[00:28:49] Right.

[00:28:50] So, um, it seems to me that the invite is the win.

[00:28:59] The win isn't if you invite and they show up.

[00:29:02] Not at all.

[00:29:03] And I think for many of us, the, the win is I invited that person.

[00:29:10] Yeah.

[00:29:11] It's up to them how they respond to that invite.

[00:29:13] Yeah.

[00:29:13] But I, I've done my bit.

[00:29:16] I've won because I broke past the barrier of fear and I have invited you either to an alpha

[00:29:23] or Christianity rediscovered.

[00:29:25] Cause there are other Christian evangelism courses out there.

[00:29:27] Uh, you know, to a carol service or to an Easter service or to a baptism, you know, it's the invite,

[00:29:34] isn't it?

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:35] How, you know, for you, have you any tips or maybe on how to do the invite?

[00:29:40] You know, is there a good way to invite people or could you say, is there a bad way of doing it?

[00:29:47] Yeah.

[00:29:48] I think if your own sole agenda in having a conversation with someone is to invite them,

[00:29:54] then that's bad.

[00:29:55] Um, you know, you don't, um, ask a friend out for coffee because you have an agenda.

[00:30:01] You ask a friend out for coffee because you want to spend time with them.

[00:30:03] Um, so I don't think there's any, I think there's many good ways to do it, but I think there is

[00:30:09] certainly a bad way.

[00:30:10] And that is to have the agenda.

[00:30:12] Um, that the whole purpose of me meeting with you today is to invite you to this.

[00:30:18] And actually, you know, we're talking about our friends.

[00:30:20] We're talking about our family.

[00:30:21] We're talking about people that we want to spend time with.

[00:30:24] Um, we're not commissioned to make decisions.

[00:30:26] We're commissioned to make disciples.

[00:30:28] And that doesn't always happen in one moment that happens over time.

[00:30:32] And, and we really need to invest in friendships and we need to invest in being alongside people.

[00:30:37] So the invite may be a no two years ago, but it might be a yes now.

[00:30:42] And if we're, if we're in it for the long haul, um, we will, we'll be ready to kind of

[00:30:48] talk again.

[00:30:48] But if we, if we're only going at people because we have an agenda to see a decision made in

[00:30:54] a moment, um, then we've got it wrong.

[00:30:56] Like we are there to, to do life alongside people.

[00:30:59] Um, so that's my only bit of advice when it comes to inviting.

[00:31:04] Well, I think you just need to have everything prepared.

[00:31:07] So if you know, you're going to invite someone to your church's carol service, when is it

[00:31:12] happening?

[00:31:13] Where is it happening?

[00:31:14] You know, do they have a physical invitation that you can put in their hands in that moment?

[00:31:18] Or if not, are you ready to send them a text with some info on it?

[00:31:21] Um, yes, you are thinking forward in terms of, okay, I do want to invite someone.

[00:31:27] So you are having an agenda, if that makes sense.

[00:31:30] You're, you're being prepared, um, but you're being prepared for natural conversations to

[00:31:34] take place.

[00:31:35] So I think it's really important if you've got to invite just to make sure you know what

[00:31:39] you're inviting them to, to when it's happening, where it's happening, is there a physical invite

[00:31:43] or can you send them something digital?

[00:31:45] Um, but always have in your back pocket.

[00:31:48] If there's nothing happening, you know, if there's nothing happening within your life of

[00:31:53] your church in that moment, can I pray for you?

[00:31:56] And if it's a no, then okay.

[00:31:58] Thank you so much for listening.

[00:32:00] Carry on your conversation or ask them, Hey, tell me a little bit about your story that

[00:32:04] I don't know.

[00:32:05] Um, or, you know, if it's a, can we meet again next week?

[00:32:08] And if you've got any questions, I'd love to help answer them.

[00:32:11] Um, like just kind of have in your back pocket.

[00:32:15] What's the, um, alternative invitation if there isn't something that you can take them

[00:32:19] to?

[00:32:20] Um, and people are going to say no, by the way, it's being prepared for the invitation

[00:32:26] to be no, thank you, you know, and that's okay because there will be some that say yes.

[00:32:32] And the ones that say no, I, again, I talk about this in the sense of get ready for the no

[00:32:38] so that you can say, well, thank you so much for listening.

[00:32:41] Let's carry on what we were talking about before I shared, or I'd love to hear a bit

[00:32:46] more about you.

[00:32:47] These are your friends and your family.

[00:32:49] Like you just carry on a normal conversation with them.

[00:32:52] It's okay.

[00:32:53] They're not rejecting you.

[00:32:55] They're rejecting the invitation.

[00:32:58] Oh, I love that.

[00:32:59] So tell us about, uh, keep it simple on right now media.

[00:33:04] Yeah.

[00:33:06] It's super exciting.

[00:33:07] It's, um, oh, the team were amazing.

[00:33:10] Um, it was a really fun couple of days filming.

[00:33:13] Um, it's now on the global platform for right now media.

[00:33:16] So, um, anyone with an account can access it and, and through my link, they can access

[00:33:21] it for free as well, which is really cool.

[00:33:23] Um, it mirrors the book.

[00:33:25] It goes into a little bit more detail in terms of questions and scripture perhaps.

[00:33:29] Um, but it mirrors it in a way that you could listen to it to be the audio version of

[00:33:34] the book.

[00:33:35] Um, or you could watch it in a small group community, like as a, you know, as a Bible

[00:33:40] study that you're doing, um, in life group or in anything, whatever you call them.

[00:33:46] Um, and it's just, again, takes you through the narrative of the woman as well, but it

[00:33:51] really intentionally pauses for you to then share your story with those that you're kind

[00:33:55] of sat with watching it or, um, to really kind of action point going towards, um, you

[00:34:01] know, before you start episode three or session three X do this X, Y, and Z.

[00:34:06] Um, so really taking people through the process of how to craft your story, why we do it, what

[00:34:13] we say, um, and actually just really put encouraging to people to, to go and do the commission.

[00:34:20] So those that don't know what right now media is, it's basically Christian Netflix, isn't

[00:34:25] it?

[00:34:25] That's basically what it is.

[00:34:26] That's what I was going to say.

[00:34:27] Yeah.

[00:34:28] We've, we've had, um, a subscription to, uh, right now media numbers of different times.

[00:34:33] Um, I'm going to check this out.

[00:34:35] This, I mean, if it looks as good as your little flyer does, that is thoroughly.

[00:34:39] Beautiful.

[00:34:40] Thank you.

[00:34:40] Wonderful.

[00:34:41] Thank you so much for chatting to us.

[00:34:43] Just so openly about, about how do we share our stories?

[00:34:46] How do we tell, you know, God's story?

[00:34:48] The spring harvest theme for 2025.

[00:34:51] No greater story.

[00:34:52] I know.

[00:34:53] How good is that?

[00:34:54] How we tell our story within his big story.

[00:34:57] It's so important, isn't it?

[00:34:59] How we get to, how we get to do that.

[00:35:01] So, uh, there's a nice little, nice little plug there maybe for spring harvest to push this

[00:35:07] book as well.

[00:35:08] Uh, Mari, thank you so much.

[00:35:09] If people want to check out more and they want to get ahold of a copy, where can they?

[00:35:13] Yeah.

[00:35:13] So you can go to mariakin.com and, and then there's a page called keep it simple.

[00:35:19] So you can literally click on it and it will redirect you to where you can purchase the

[00:35:22] book and also watch the series on right now media.

[00:35:25] So best places to go straight to my website and take it from there.

[00:35:30] Amazing.

[00:35:30] Thank you so much for spending time with us.

[00:35:33] You're so welcome.

[00:35:34] Thanks so much for having me again.

[00:35:37] Let's see if we do it a third time.

[00:35:38] Grace and peace.

[00:35:39] See you soon.

[00:35:40] Bye.

[00:35:40] Bye.

[00:35:40] Bye.

[00:35:40] Bye.

[00:35:40] Bye.