229. When Did Jesus Become God?

[00:00:08] Friends, welcome to another episode of Making Disciples. My name is Cris and I am your host. Lovely to have you with us. If you're a new listener, I'd love to invite you to subscribe. Subscribing and leaving a review on podcast episodes is really helpful for us. It just keeps the podcast kind of in those algorithms and just liking and subscribing makes a big deal to us. So I'd love to encourage you to do that.

[00:00:36] Now today's episode, today's episode is a question that's coming from a listener. And it's one that I don't want to take huge amounts of time because I just want to get to the point and actually be quite clear and helpful for you on this.

[00:00:53] A listener has been listening to some TikTok videos and some YouTube videos. And in these videos, the argument has been made that Jesus didn't become God until somewhere around the region of AD 300.

[00:01:09] somewhere that kind of region. At that point, Jesus became known as God. Before that, he was just known as a good religious teacher and that there was a switch around those 300s.

[00:01:22] And then Jesus became known as God. And from that point on, we've known him as God. And therefore, Christianity is not trustworthy because he was never God. He was just a good religious teacher.

[00:01:31] And these videos are on YouTube and they tend to base their arguments on two, two routes or two roads or two ways of thinking.

[00:01:43] They're going to share those with you and they're going to tell you why they're a load of gibberish, a load of rubbish.

[00:01:46] So I hope you find this really helpful. My reason for looking at this is I just think it gives us confidence.

[00:01:53] It gives us confidence in not only what the Bible says, it gives us confidence in what the archaeological evidence says as well.

[00:02:00] So you'll be like, oh yeah, I hope you'll find this interesting. Some episodes are hands episodes.

[00:02:05] You know, what do we do with our hands as disciples of Jesus? How do my hands serve?

[00:02:12] Some episodes are heart. How is my heart being restored? Sinfulness, behaviour, attitudes, that kind of stuff.

[00:02:20] Well, this is a head episode. So hopefully this will stimulate your mind and actually get you thinking and give you evidence that if anybody ever says to you,

[00:02:27] well, Jesus didn't become God until, you know, 300 years after his death, you could say, actually, that's not true and here's why.

[00:02:32] So, friends, I hope that you find this episode interesting as we jump in and talk about when did Jesus become God.

[00:02:51] So here we go. Friends, some people want to argue that Jesus didn't become God until Christianity was accepted by Constantine.

[00:03:06] So the primary argument for Jesus not becoming God until about AD 300 and just after that comes down to the argument that Constantine,

[00:03:20] who's the Roman emperor, he converted to Christianity and that he made Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire.

[00:03:27] So the argument is at that point, that's when Jesus became God.

[00:03:31] So let me just back this up. It's quite a cynical view of Constantine's conversion.

[00:03:37] So in 312, Constantine became the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.

[00:03:43] And scholars believe that Constantine's main goal was to gain the submission of all the classes,

[00:03:52] you know, the peasant classes, the working classes, the middle and the upper classes,

[00:03:56] that he wanted all of them to submit.

[00:03:59] And therefore, he decided the way to do that was actually through Christianity because it was the religion of the poor.

[00:04:04] At that time, predominant people coming to faith were the poor.

[00:04:10] And you could see that this would have intrigue in interest in the wealthy.

[00:04:15] So actually, Christianity, this could be a great way of pulling the Roman Empire together under one religion.

[00:04:22] So a cynical view is that Constantine's conversion in AD 312 was the moment when Jesus became God.

[00:04:31] See, the emperor, he was emperor from 306 to 337.

[00:04:37] So about 30 years was Constantine the emperor.

[00:04:41] And, you know, the argument is that about 10 years in, he ended up converting to Christianity.

[00:04:48] And then he saw this as a way of actually keeping power, but also unifying the Roman Empire.

[00:04:56] So that's the cynical view is that his conversion was down to power.

[00:05:01] Now, at the same time as all of this happening.

[00:05:03] So this is AD 325.

[00:05:06] So this is in the May of 325 after Jesus's death.

[00:05:11] There was a council called the Council of Nicaea.

[00:05:14] Now, the Council of Nicaea did a whole string of things.

[00:05:17] One of the things it did was it created a creed, the Nicene Creed, which actually is 1700 years old next year.

[00:05:27] The argument is that in that creedal statement, they were trying to clarify who this Jesus was.

[00:05:37] And the cynical view was they were doing that because Constantine was actually provocating that to happen.

[00:05:43] But actually the Council of Nicaea were meeting to work out what was heresy and what wasn't heresy.

[00:05:48] The other thing they did was they agreed on what the book should go in the New Testament.

[00:05:55] So until this point, there was general agreement on what would go in the New Testament.

[00:06:01] But it hadn't been formalized.

[00:06:03] This is the time it got formalized.

[00:06:05] They knew roughly what was in the Old Testament.

[00:06:07] Well, they knew what was in the Old Testament by this point.

[00:06:09] They kind of agreed by what was being used.

[00:06:11] The New Testament, people were using some texts.

[00:06:15] But other texts were starting to be developed that were written hundreds of years after Jesus and were written by people who've never met Jesus, never met anybody that met Jesus, not researched Jesus.

[00:06:27] And it's like extended universe stuff.

[00:06:28] So to clarify what was in and what was out, the Council of Nicaea met and they agreed what was going to be in the New Testament.

[00:06:34] So that's what happened at this Council.

[00:06:36] So the Council of Nicaea met in the May of 325.

[00:06:39] And they formalized the doctrines of the church.

[00:06:43] And they formalized that Jesus had this divine nature, both God and man.

[00:06:51] It did not create this belief.

[00:06:54] So some people would argue that the Council of Nicaea, at that point, this is when this was created and came up with.

[00:07:00] And this was a development of belief.

[00:07:02] And it wasn't.

[00:07:03] All they were doing were formalizing what they already knew.

[00:07:07] That's a complete misunderstanding of what was happening on Council of Nicaea.

[00:07:10] Instead, what was going on was they were codifying or understanding what had been developing over the last couple of hundred years in the early days of Christianity.

[00:07:21] So there are these two arguments that says, actually, Jesus didn't become God until Constantine made that.

[00:07:27] Jesus didn't become God until the Council of Nicaea met.

[00:07:31] And they formalized it.

[00:07:33] But actually, they didn't believe it before.

[00:07:34] Actually, this isn't correct.

[00:07:36] This isn't true.

[00:07:38] And to give you evidence for this, I'm going to go in two different directions.

[00:07:42] Number one, the Bible.

[00:07:44] But number two is I want to go to the archaeological evidence.

[00:07:46] And this is, I just think, really, really interesting.

[00:07:49] So I love archaeological evidence that collaborates and agrees with the Bible.

[00:07:58] I love it when you find evidence in Egypt that collaborates the Moses story.

[00:08:05] I love it when we find things in the Judean desert that collaborates evidence of what people were thinking at that time.

[00:08:14] Or, you know, you're finding a mosaic somewhere that collaborates what people believed at that point.

[00:08:22] It's so amazing going to Capernaum where Peter lived.

[00:08:27] You know, it's the house of Peter.

[00:08:28] And inscribed in the walls are phrases about Jesus being Lord and ichthystis fissures, you know, the fish shape, which is the early sign of Christianity.

[00:08:38] I love all this archaeological evidence because it just backs up the Bible so beautifully where the evidence is right there in front of your eyes.

[00:08:48] And I want to take you to some archaeological evidence today that's been talked about in the last five or six years, really.

[00:08:55] And it's in a place called Megiddo.

[00:08:58] Megiddo, no.

[00:08:59] Megiddo.

[00:09:00] Megiddo.

[00:09:01] There is a tell there, a mound.

[00:09:03] And you can dig through that mound, through that tell, and it shows you that people have lived in Megiddo for...

[00:09:09] It's northern Israel.

[00:09:11] That people have lived in Megiddo for thousands of years.

[00:09:14] So there's evidence in Megiddo over thousands of years that people have lived there.

[00:09:18] The plain, the area of wide open space by the tell, is the plain of Megiddo.

[00:09:30] Now, in the New Testament, in the book of Revelation, we're told that Megiddo is the location of a final battle.

[00:09:38] That final battle at Megiddo is called the Battle of Armageddon.

[00:09:45] So the idea is that Armageddon is where the Battle of Armageddon, the words link, it's located.

[00:09:55] The Battle of Armageddon is in a place, the battle of a particular location called Megiddo.

[00:10:00] Now, if you were to go to Megiddo today, yes, you're at your tell.

[00:10:03] You've got this mound.

[00:10:04] You've got the plain.

[00:10:05] But also there, you have got a modern prison, the Megiddo prison.

[00:10:13] And a number of years ago, they wanted to do a building project.

[00:10:17] Now, if you're going to do a building project in Israel, you can't just build.

[00:10:20] You don't just have to go for planning permission.

[00:10:21] You have to get archaeologists to come.

[00:10:24] And you have to dig up where you want to build to make sure there's not any archaeological evidence underneath it.

[00:10:30] You're going to bury or build a property on.

[00:10:31] So you have to basically dig up any evidence, archaeological evidence, just make sure that you are not covering anything up.

[00:10:37] So the archaeologists came in.

[00:10:41] They went into this part of the prison that they wanted to develop.

[00:10:45] And as they dug, they found under the ground was an incredibly important find.

[00:10:53] Now, let me just talk you through what I mean by incredibly important.

[00:10:57] The most important archaeological find in the last hundred years were some biblical texts that are now known as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[00:11:08] The Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden in the mountainside.

[00:11:15] And a shepherd had thrown, so they're down near the Dead Sea.

[00:11:21] The shepherd had thrown some stones into a hole in the cliff.

[00:11:26] Rather than hearing the sound of stone hitting stone, he heard the sound of stone hitting clay and metal.

[00:11:34] Climbed up and found in that cave, the caves of Qumran,

[00:11:38] he found that there were manuscripts that were incredibly important.

[00:11:45] They're known as one of the most important archaeological finds in a hundred years.

[00:11:48] One of the things they found was an entire scroll of Isaiah,

[00:11:52] not on cloth, not on paper, but on a sheet of metal that was rolled.

[00:11:57] And it's from the oldest copies of Isaiah that we have.

[00:12:00] They also found other books from the New Testament as well as the Old Testament.

[00:12:05] So a super exciting thing to find.

[00:12:10] Well, this archaeological find is described as the most important find behind that one.

[00:12:16] This is one of the greatest finds in the last hundred years.

[00:12:20] The find is exciting because what it is, is a building,

[00:12:28] specifically a room, believed to be an early church,

[00:12:32] could have been the living room of a home,

[00:12:34] but certainly is a gathering place for a number of Christians.

[00:12:37] In the middle of the room, there is a table,

[00:12:40] and around that table are mosaics.

[00:12:43] And the mosaics, this room,

[00:12:47] believed to be dating back to 250 to 270 AD.

[00:12:52] So a couple of hundred years after Jesus,

[00:12:55] but before the Council of Nicaea,

[00:12:57] and before Constantine.

[00:12:59] So if the argument is that they didn't call Jesus God

[00:13:02] until Constantine and the Council of Nicaea,

[00:13:04] here we have evidence.

[00:13:06] Evidence of a building that existed pre that point.

[00:13:09] So you're going, what does it say on the evidence?

[00:13:12] Well, we'll get there.

[00:13:14] So, mosaic on the floor,

[00:13:17] communion table in the middle,

[00:13:20] and then you've got these Greek texts

[00:13:25] written in the mosaic on the ground.

[00:13:29] And one of them, right by the table, says this,

[00:13:33] the loving Acipitus

[00:13:35] has offered this table to God, Jesus Christ,

[00:13:40] as a memorial.

[00:13:41] So Acipitus was the man that had paid for this table,

[00:13:47] and the mosaic is to let you know

[00:13:51] that this is the guy that paid for this table,

[00:13:55] and he has offered this as a table

[00:13:57] to God, Jesus Christ, as a memorial.

[00:14:03] So this table, this archaeological find,

[00:14:06] shows us that pre-Constantine, pre-Nicaea,

[00:14:10] they were calling Jesus Christ God.

[00:14:13] He was not a good man, he was not a prophet,

[00:14:16] but they were calling him God.

[00:14:19] So this is the most important archaeological find

[00:14:22] of the last hundred years.

[00:14:23] Why?

[00:14:24] Because it shows us

[00:14:26] that pre-this pointing time,

[00:14:29] whether the debate,

[00:14:30] was that the point where Jesus became God?

[00:14:32] Jesus was being called God

[00:14:34] by people pre-this date.

[00:14:37] So the archaeological evidence

[00:14:38] is pointing us,

[00:14:40] so there's other bits that's important here.

[00:14:42] There are other archaeological evidence

[00:14:45] where Jesus is called God like this.

[00:14:47] Our terminology is Jesus being the Messiah,

[00:14:50] the Son of God,

[00:14:51] it's used.

[00:14:52] But the thing is,

[00:14:54] this evidence has been buried

[00:14:55] for thousands of years.

[00:14:57] Some of that other evidence

[00:14:58] has not been buried,

[00:14:59] so the debate is,

[00:15:00] has it been tampered with?

[00:15:02] Here we have evidence

[00:15:03] of a mosaic

[00:15:04] in its entirety

[00:15:07] that has been buried

[00:15:08] that dates to 250

[00:15:10] that has not been tampered with.

[00:15:13] Nobody has played with it,

[00:15:14] so it is what was there

[00:15:15] at the time.

[00:15:17] So that gives us

[00:15:18] a clear point in time

[00:15:19] where somebody was calling him God.

[00:15:21] The archaeological evidence

[00:15:22] is great

[00:15:22] because it collaborates

[00:15:24] what the Bible says.

[00:15:25] Let me take this to the Bible

[00:15:26] then briefly.

[00:15:28] John 1.

[00:15:29] So the book of John

[00:15:29] was,

[00:15:32] well,

[00:15:32] let me put it like this.

[00:15:33] Some people argue

[00:15:34] that the book of John

[00:15:35] was written

[00:15:36] somewhere between

[00:15:37] 19 and 110 AD.

[00:15:41] And that's because

[00:15:42] that's the earliest

[00:15:43] we can try

[00:15:44] and get the copy

[00:15:45] of a manuscript going back.

[00:15:47] The problem thing is,

[00:15:47] it was written by John

[00:15:49] who lived in 70 years BC.

[00:15:52] So the belief is that

[00:15:53] it was written as early as 70,

[00:15:55] but we just haven't got the evidence

[00:15:56] because paper degrades.

[00:16:00] So the belief is

[00:16:02] 70 AD,

[00:16:03] but even if you are going to go

[00:16:05] with the most conservative view

[00:16:06] of 90 to 100 AD,

[00:16:10] John 1 says this,

[00:16:12] Jesus was the Word.

[00:16:13] And it says the Word

[00:16:14] was with God

[00:16:15] and the Word was God.

[00:16:17] So John 1.1 argues

[00:16:19] that Jesus was with God

[00:16:21] and Jesus was God.

[00:16:23] So in other words,

[00:16:24] somewhere around this 70 AD,

[00:16:28] people were calling

[00:16:29] Jesus God.

[00:16:30] It wasn't something

[00:16:31] that emerged later

[00:16:32] down the line.

[00:16:32] The scriptures

[00:16:34] were already

[00:16:35] being written

[00:16:36] and calling Jesus God.

[00:16:38] So that's what John says.

[00:16:39] So what does

[00:16:39] the disciples say?

[00:16:41] Well, John 20, 28,

[00:16:42] it says this,

[00:16:43] Thomas is talking

[00:16:44] to Jesus post-resurrection.

[00:16:46] And he says,

[00:16:47] Thomas said to Jesus,

[00:16:49] my Lord and my God.

[00:16:51] So in other words,

[00:16:52] at the resurrection,

[00:16:54] the disciples

[00:16:55] were already

[00:16:55] calling Jesus God.

[00:16:56] So this was not something

[00:16:58] that developed

[00:16:59] hundreds of years later.

[00:17:00] It was at the time

[00:17:02] Jesus was being called God.

[00:17:04] So what do others say?

[00:17:05] Well, Titus 2, 13 says this,

[00:17:08] while we wait

[00:17:10] for the blessed hope,

[00:17:11] the appearance

[00:17:12] of the glory

[00:17:13] of our great God

[00:17:14] and Saviour,

[00:17:15] Jesus Christ.

[00:17:16] In other words,

[00:17:17] Titus,

[00:17:18] well, he describes Jesus

[00:17:19] as God, Saviour,

[00:17:21] and Christ.

[00:17:22] So Titus,

[00:17:24] New Testament text,

[00:17:27] clearly believes

[00:17:28] that Jesus was the Messiah,

[00:17:30] he was the Saviour,

[00:17:31] and he was God.

[00:17:33] What about the book of Romans?

[00:17:34] Well, Romans,

[00:17:35] written by Paul,

[00:17:36] actually some people say

[00:17:37] that the book of Romans

[00:17:38] was possibly a sermon

[00:17:39] that was written down.

[00:17:40] Definitely Pauline teaching

[00:17:41] if Paul didn't even write it.

[00:17:45] But he says this,

[00:17:46] so theirs are the patriarchs

[00:17:49] and from them

[00:17:50] is trace the human ancestry

[00:17:52] of the Messiah,

[00:17:53] who is God over all,

[00:17:55] forever praised.

[00:17:56] Amen.

[00:17:57] So Paul,

[00:17:58] the ancestry of the Messiah,

[00:18:00] who is God.

[00:18:02] So Paul understood

[00:18:04] that Jesus was God.

[00:18:06] So the argument

[00:18:06] that Jesus didn't become God

[00:18:08] until the 300s,

[00:18:10] friends,

[00:18:10] there's way more evidence here,

[00:18:12] isn't there,

[00:18:13] that people were calling Jesus God

[00:18:14] right at the very beginning.

[00:18:17] Let's ask this question,

[00:18:18] what did Jesus claim

[00:18:19] then about himself?

[00:18:20] What did Jesus claim?

[00:18:21] Because what Jesus says

[00:18:22] about himself is really important.

[00:18:25] John 10,

[00:18:26] 33 says this,

[00:18:27] we are not stoning you

[00:18:29] for any good work,

[00:18:30] they replied,

[00:18:31] but for blasphemy

[00:18:32] because you and me,

[00:18:33] a man,

[00:18:34] claimed to be God.

[00:18:35] They didn't crucify Jesus

[00:18:37] because he was a good

[00:18:37] moral teacher.

[00:18:38] They didn't crucify Jesus

[00:18:42] because of his miracles,

[00:18:44] his signs,

[00:18:45] and his wonders.

[00:18:47] They crucified Jesus

[00:18:50] because of his blasphemy,

[00:18:52] because he claimed to be God.

[00:18:55] They did not agree with that

[00:18:57] and they crucified him.

[00:19:00] So Jesus claimed to be God,

[00:19:02] Paul claimed him to be God,

[00:19:04] Titus claimed him to be God,

[00:19:05] the disciples claimed him to be God.

[00:19:07] So any argument that Jesus

[00:19:10] didn't become God

[00:19:11] until post 300 AD

[00:19:13] is ridiculous.

[00:19:16] The archaeological evidence

[00:19:17] says different,

[00:19:18] the Bible says different.

[00:19:20] Therefore,

[00:19:20] right from early days,

[00:19:21] people were talking about Jesus

[00:19:24] as God.

[00:19:26] Why is this important?

[00:19:28] There are those that would want to argue

[00:19:31] that Jesus was a good man,

[00:19:33] good moral teacher.

[00:19:35] The problem is,

[00:19:36] Jesus doesn't allow you

[00:19:38] to see him as a good moral teacher.

[00:19:41] Jesus doesn't claim just to teach.

[00:19:43] He claims to be something.

[00:19:46] And if you accept his teaching,

[00:19:48] then you have to accept

[00:19:49] what he says about himself.

[00:19:51] And therefore,

[00:19:51] you can't just believe

[00:19:52] that he's a good man

[00:19:54] because he claims to be more.

[00:19:56] So he's more than a good man.

[00:19:57] Well,

[00:19:57] if he's not a good man,

[00:19:58] C.S. Lewis says

[00:19:59] he's then a bad man,

[00:20:00] he's a liar.

[00:20:01] So was Jesus lying?

[00:20:03] Well,

[00:20:03] actually,

[00:20:05] when you look at the life of Jesus,

[00:20:07] the evidence is in the resurrection,

[00:20:10] Jesus claiming to be something.

[00:20:13] And the resurrection backs up

[00:20:15] that evidence

[00:20:16] that actually the resurrection

[00:20:18] affirms who Jesus says he's to be.

[00:20:21] So Jesus is a good man,

[00:20:23] a bad man,

[00:20:24] or is he a God man?

[00:20:26] And actually,

[00:20:27] he claims to be God.

[00:20:28] The people around him

[00:20:29] claim him to be God.

[00:20:30] The archaeological evidence

[00:20:31] claims him to be God.

[00:20:32] And therefore,

[00:20:34] the argument is a strong one.

[00:20:36] And this is why

[00:20:37] it is a leap of faith

[00:20:39] for some of us.

[00:20:40] But the archaeological evidence,

[00:20:42] the historical evidence,

[00:20:43] would back up this argument

[00:20:44] that Jesus was more than

[00:20:46] a good man.

[00:20:48] He was certainly not a bad man.

[00:20:50] But he was God in flesh.

[00:20:52] So friends,

[00:20:53] do Google the Megiddo

[00:20:57] mosaic.

[00:20:57] The Megiddo mosaic.

[00:20:59] Check it out.

[00:21:01] Friends,

[00:21:01] there are other pieces of

[00:21:02] archaeological evidence.

[00:21:03] If any listeners are interested

[00:21:04] in this stuff,

[00:21:05] maybe I could do other episodes

[00:21:06] where I share with you

[00:21:07] some of the archaeological

[00:21:08] evidence that we have

[00:21:10] from the time of Christ.

[00:21:12] If you're interested,

[00:21:13] let me know.

[00:21:14] I'd love to cover that stuff more.

[00:21:16] Friends,

[00:21:16] until next time,

[00:21:16] grace and peace.

[00:21:20] Feel encouraged.

[00:21:23] Feel encouraged

[00:21:24] that when people say,

[00:21:25] but Jesus never claimed

[00:21:26] to be God,

[00:21:27] you can say,

[00:21:27] well actually,

[00:21:28] that's just not true.

[00:21:29] That's just not true.

[00:21:32] Have confidence

[00:21:32] that Jesus believed

[00:21:34] who he was

[00:21:35] as well as the disciples

[00:21:36] in the early church.

[00:21:38] Friends,

[00:21:38] until next time,

[00:21:38] grace and peace.

[00:21:39] Have a blessed week

[00:21:40] and I'll catch you with soon.