212. How Do We Forgive Ourselves?

[00:00:08] Hi friends welcome to another episode of Making Disciples. My name is Chris and I am your host.

[00:00:14] Chris Rogers is my name, I lead a church here in East London and lead on this

[00:00:20] minister of home making disciples. Welcome to the podcast it's really good to have you

[00:00:24] with us. Well welcome if you're on a new listener if you're a long-term listener

[00:00:29] well, welcome to you as well. Today we are going to answer one of our listeners

[00:00:35] questions. We've been doing a mixture of interviews, questions and other bits of

[00:00:40] pieces in this club term and this one is answering a question that has been asked by a

[00:00:47] listener somewhat following a previous episode that we've done but the essential topic

[00:00:53] is around forgiveness of forgiving yourself and it's a great question it's really nicely

[00:00:59] posed as a question so thought right that's it let's cover this topic how do we forgive

[00:01:04] ourselves because in a previous episode we have looked at you know how do we love ourselves

[00:01:09] and they're kind of linked together you know the ability to forgive and the ability

[00:01:14] to love ourselves are very neatly tied together like they but there are two separate

[00:01:21] issues as well so I thought we would explore this listeners question it's great. Now in doing

[00:01:25] this I have reminded myself of a book that I wrote many many years ago in a way talking

[00:01:33] I think about 13, 14 maybe 15 gosh no it's going to be maybe even 17 years ago

[00:01:40] I should look it up really shouldn't I should know when I wrote a book but I don't really

[00:01:43] remember and it is a long time ago it's one of the early books that I wrote and it was a book

[00:01:48] called a monkey's orientation a book about holiness and just kind of doing it a bit of research

[00:01:55] for this episode I remember to book it I've gone a couple of things in that I thought was really

[00:02:00] interesting it's really good isn't it I like what I wrote there you know funny because you

[00:02:03] I'm on my own reading back on something as if it's somebody else that wrote it because it's so long

[00:02:08] ago when I wrote it the book is basically about holiness and about how holiness is not about

[00:02:13] performance it's about what you already intake your life towards but in it it talks about sin

[00:02:18] and it talks about how to deal with with sin in a really good way life giving way and there's a

[00:02:25] couple of ideas in that book I just thought really so I just you know if you find this episode

[00:02:32] somewhat interesting you might want to pick up a copy of this now it's been out for so long

[00:02:37] that I doubt that you can still buy a new copy I'll be very doubtful but you might be able

[00:02:42] to get yourself a second-hand copy so it's called a monkey's orientation a book about holiness

[00:02:47] it's got a really creepy looking monkey on the front and it's all about performances and

[00:02:54] when I was a kid I used to see people in the street with these performing monkeys and

[00:03:00] inspired me to think about this opportunity of a different way and holiness in a different way so

[00:03:04] you might want to check out on monkeys orientation but anyway we're going to look at this question

[00:03:07] today about forgiveness and how to forgive ourselves so let's jump in and explore this topic together

[00:03:16] quick at a quick google while that jingle was playing 2008 the book was written friends 2008 so

[00:03:32] just over 15 years ago right let's jump in so I'm going to read you the question that I've been sent

[00:03:39] from a listener basis as a high crisp I really appreciate it your recent episode on loving yourself

[00:03:47] I wonder if you could help further I struggle to not only love myself but also forgive myself

[00:03:53] sin I beat myself up almost daily for letting others down in such significant ways others

[00:03:59] have forgiven me but I can't forgive myself how do I forgive myself lie me what a great question

[00:04:08] forgiving ourselves how do we go about forgiving ourselves thank you for sending this in it's really

[00:04:13] not you know really great question and you know I beat myself up almost daily I don't know

[00:04:19] I don't know what you've done this I'm now speaking to the listener feel like I'm

[00:04:24] agony and I don't know specifically what you've done you've not given the example of what it is

[00:04:29] that you do so we're kind of working in the dark but you put here I beat myself up almost daily my

[00:04:35] feeling here would be this wasn't a small thing this was a significant thing this was a big

[00:04:42] thing and it's and therefore it's something you're struggling to allow yourself to move forward

[00:04:48] through and so it's obviously something is significant so we're not talking about here

[00:04:52] that you've simply called somebody in name you know sounds to me in the light there's been

[00:04:57] significant relationship breakdown because of it or something like that but you know I beat myself

[00:05:01] up almost daily for letting others down in such an insignificant ways others are forgiven me but I

[00:05:06] can't forgive myself I wonder how many of us feel like that there is something in our lives

[00:05:13] where we just come up and give ourselves now for some of us it might simply be that there's just

[00:05:20] history you know we've we've lived life and there's something a certain point in my life

[00:05:25] that we've shown by us by and we just find it we know why did I do that how foolish how stupid I was

[00:05:30] why would I do that and you know you struggle to move on from that one thing some of us may have

[00:05:35] done significant things and therefore moving forward through them means an entirely wiring of our lives

[00:05:43] changing our lives because of that thing you know it might be an affair it might be some significant

[00:05:50] you know financial crime or something that you you know addicted behaviors that led you

[00:05:58] to a particular place in your life where you had really damaged the relationship with people

[00:06:02] so you know some really big significant things in it therefore it becomes really hard to move forward

[00:06:05] because it's like you are living daily with consequences of yourself

[00:06:12] consequences of your behavior and therefore it becomes really hard to forgive yourself and move on

[00:06:16] so let's just explore this a little bit I've put couple of biblical examples I just

[00:06:21] fantastically helpful you may think of things yourself but then I want I want to talk

[00:06:25] through I've got eight little thoughts that I have about how we mind end up forgiving ourselves

[00:06:30] firstly I'd say this forgive itself forgiveness is not actually in the Bible as a term

[00:06:36] this idea of forgiving yourself we're told to figure others as we would forgive ourselves

[00:06:40] or love others as we love ourselves but actually we not told for self love that you know not

[00:06:46] self forgiveness that is a mentioned but it is in the sense that it's a thread that runs through

[00:06:54] a lot of what we find in scripture and let me just take you to a couple of examples my first will be

[00:07:00] a parable so in Luke 15 Jesus tells the story of the product called son the product called

[00:07:05] son wishes his father was dead it takes the inheritance and he goes away to a distant land where

[00:07:13] he squanders that money and a wild living and then eventually he runs out he's wasted all of

[00:07:20] that inheritance and then he gets the point where he's in a field and he is feeding the pigs

[00:07:28] and then this is moment where he really realizes that the life that he's living and the life

[00:07:32] that his father's servants are living is radically different you know servants who are in a better

[00:07:37] position than he is and the boy decides to go home while going home the father then runs towards

[00:07:45] him welcome sin with open harms and the dopsing back into family what strikes me is the

[00:07:52] political son returning turning around to go home returning to his family there is a moment there

[00:08:01] where I think he has to have an act of self forgiveness and so it will be very easy for him to just stay away

[00:08:12] but easy for him to avoid going back to the people that he has hurt but he knows that he needs

[00:08:21] to return he's returned because actually he recognizes that those that back home are living life

[00:08:28] in a way that's more fulfilling or healthy than the needs of the moment they've got you know not only

[00:08:33] got more he's also recognizing he's left something behind that he needs to go back to in terms

[00:08:37] of his family and his father and I think there's this moment where he returns home and in that

[00:08:42] moment I think there's a moment of forgiveness of himself that he's recognizing that he's going to

[00:08:48] need to go back and he's going to need to live out the consequences of those actions he can't avoid

[00:08:53] it any longer I think that returning that that is an act of forgiveness I think he's the something

[00:08:59] going on there in the boy that makes him go I can be turned I can go home let's just map this

[00:09:04] onto Philippians 3 13 and 14 just says this brothers I do not consider that I have it's brothers I

[00:09:12] do not consider that I have made it my home but one thing I do forgetting what lies behind

[00:09:20] and straining forward to what lies ahead I press on towards the goal for the prize of the

[00:09:27] upward call of God in Christ Jesus I great just a little passage here do you consider that's how

[00:09:34] I've made it my home but one thing I do forgetting what lies behind and straining forward for what lies

[00:09:41] ahead I think what I see here in Paul in terms of forgetting the past dronolindland and ether

[00:09:48] and choosing to go forwards I think there's an act of forgiveness happening here I'm choosing not

[00:09:55] to allow the past to keep defining me and I am choosing to look forward I would say friends here

[00:10:02] they possible Paul is giving a example of putting their past behind him and then pressing forward

[00:10:08] in terms of his spiritual journey and calling in Jesus Christ he's looking forward I think this is

[00:10:13] this is what we're talking about here in terms of forgiveness since Paul had to forgive himself

[00:10:20] you know he had killed Christians he had murdered in the street Christian upon Christian

[00:10:28] upon Christian this is when he was known as Saul and he comes to faith and he sees who Jesus is

[00:10:36] and he reassesses his life and I think there's a moment here where Paul is particularly articulating

[00:10:42] in Philippians there's a moment where he has to put behind him the things of the past

[00:10:46] and he has to look forward to things of the future and this is what it means to forgive ourselves it's

[00:10:51] choosing to draw a line and say I'm not going backwards I'm not going to keep going there I'm recognizing

[00:11:00] the past is the past and I'm now press on into the future and that's what we've seen Paul talking

[00:11:06] about here and you know we go back into the probably called son I think there's a moment here isn't

[00:11:10] there where the product called son says the past is the past I'm not going to draw a line

[00:11:13] underneath it there's consequences I'm going to go home and he's not going to be the same

[00:11:18] but I'm going to have to draw a line to look forward I think that is within the scope of this sense

[00:11:25] of self forgiveness so just a couple of biblical examples there so I want to give us some tips

[00:11:31] I'm not sure I can give as much more than tips but I would say here are some tips on how to help

[00:11:38] yourself to forgive yourself and to do move forward so here's some thoughts I'm not you know it

[00:11:45] be really dangerous but I think these are some thoughts that I'm having around how might we

[00:11:51] go about forgiving ourselves particularly for those of us that get really if you've got ADHD it's

[00:11:57] really possible to just get stuck in something and you just will not let it go and it's like you

[00:12:02] are there well yourself punishing yourself and you just keep going back to the same old wound

[00:12:08] and picking it again and picking it again and there was a danger here with this inability to forgive ourselves

[00:12:15] can almost be like you just can't let it go it's something that you are stewing on it's also

[00:12:26] the dangerous it becomes about punishment you know I punish myself why not forgive

[00:12:30] my every else is forgiven me but I can't forgive myself because I'm going to punish myself

[00:12:34] God's forgiven me and the else is around me forgive me but I'm not going to forgive me because

[00:12:39] that's one way of me punishing myself and so I think be aware why is it that you are not able to

[00:12:48] forgive yourself what is it that's stopping you from forgiving yourself so the first thing I would say

[00:12:53] is this friends self forgiveness is a moment where you have to make a choice to forgive yourself there's

[00:13:00] a moment where you're going to choose are you going to choose to forgive yourself or you're going

[00:13:06] to choose to wall or oh in the self pity of what you've done so friends we have to make a choice

[00:13:13] to forgive ourselves and I would say it's an intentional decision without intentionally forgiving

[00:13:21] ourselves you will essentially I think either ignore it stewing it or lock yourself in guilt so

[00:13:31] to ignore it you know if you don't make a choice to forgive yourself and the only thing you're doing

[00:13:35] then is ignoring the fact that you've done that you know you're doing this thing that's so damaging

[00:13:39] you're just end up ignoring it and pretending it's not there well that's not forgiveness ignoring

[00:13:45] it stewing on it is where you kind of just like do that ADHD I'm not going to let this guy

[00:13:50] I'm just going to keep brewing on the fact I've done this how bad am I and you're just stuck in a

[00:13:54] cycle of how bad am I that the next junction from that would be that you actually just permanently

[00:14:01] lock yourself in guilt you make yourself feel guilty for what you've done and you are not going

[00:14:07] to allow yourself out of that guilt so you essentially create your own prison to lock yourself

[00:14:12] in where you end up just making yourself feel guilty so I think we have to make a choice to forgive

[00:14:18] ourselves with to choose to say I am going to forgive myself I'm going to forgive myself so how

[00:14:27] do we do that you know what to send it looking like well some of the thoughts my second part would be

[00:14:32] this we need to acknowledge our mistakes I was so friends that we have to recognize accept

[00:14:39] that we have made a mistake and that we have committed a sin and that we have to be honest with

[00:14:45] ourselves about what has happened what has taken place and what is my responsibility

[00:14:51] and and recognizing what is your responsibility some of us are carrying false burdens

[00:14:56] or false guilt the things that so for example I spoke to somebody very recently whose parents

[00:15:03] had divorced and when I spoke to them they basically it was my fault I was such a bad child my

[00:15:10] behavior caused my parents to separate us actually no I don't believe any child's behavior so bad

[00:15:17] is the consequences old cause parents to divorce there's some other issues going on there's

[00:15:23] not your fault but that person was carrying guilt and they're carrying this burden and they felt

[00:15:29] so burdened and so guilty they could almost not let themselves be free from that because it was

[00:15:35] a way it was just the way that they were trapped in like what the scenario what they'd done

[00:15:42] what I'm talking about here acknowledging your mistakes is recognizing what you what is your

[00:15:47] part in this and some of us we aren't actually recognize that we don't actually have a part

[00:15:51] the thing that happened cannot be mindful I was a seven year old at that time for example so

[00:15:56] trying to give some of us permission to stop holding ourselves accountable for something that

[00:16:03] was not our responsibility but if it was your responsibility acknowledge your mistake

[00:16:07] acknowledge it to yourself this is what I did and then the third thing I'll say is this

[00:16:12] I have to seek forgiveness and I think we seek forgiveness of God of others and of ourselves

[00:16:22] and one of the ways that we forgive ourselves is allowing God to minister into us his forgiveness

[00:16:30] and allowing others to minister into us their forgiveness so the question that we had here

[00:16:34] others have forgiven me but I can't forgive myself actually a key part to forgive yourself is allowing

[00:16:40] yourself to receive the forgiveness others have given you so it's possible for something to say

[00:16:47] I forgive you but yet use some how bat it back as if you can't receive that forgiveness because

[00:16:53] how could they possibly mean it to seek forgiveness I think we we we we have to receive it

[00:17:00] from God from others and then we can receive it from ourselves so if you're not receiving

[00:17:05] it from yourself have you actually received it from others and they may be saying I forgive you

[00:17:11] or God may be saying I forgive you but if you've not received it so there's an element

[00:17:15] I'm having to say I I'm gonna seek forgiveness from you and I'm going to receive the forgiveness

[00:17:21] so that one of the ways that we can then the punishment that punishing ourselves is not allowing

[00:17:25] other people's forgiveness to penetrate so even though some of the keeps saying you are forgiven

[00:17:30] you're forgiven you're not allowed to penetrate because it's a way of keeping yourself punished

[00:17:36] so seek forgiveness of God of people and of us and accepting it

[00:17:41] the fourth thing I would say is that we need to learn from our mistakes and peace of forgiveness

[00:17:48] is learning from our mistakes if you want to forgive yourself then it is about allowing yourself

[00:17:54] to learn and say I'm not going there again and sometimes once you've recognized what you've done

[00:17:59] the mistake that you've made and that you're not gonna do that again that is a part of the journey

[00:18:03] of self forgiveness so be aware that but forgiving yourself is also about you recognizing what

[00:18:10] you've done reflecting on what led you to commit that crime that sin that thing what led you to this

[00:18:16] point what led you to make that decision and then consider what you can learn from that experience how

[00:18:22] you can use this knowledge of yourself that you know how you behave to make better choices in the

[00:18:28] future so learning from your mistakes not just saying well that happened but actually allowing

[00:18:33] that mistake to change how you would act in the future. Fifthly I'd say make a men's it's possible

[00:18:44] to forgive yourself in trying to make a men's now the gospel is that forgiveness comes through Christ

[00:18:53] Jesus, Christ Jesus alone and then we work out that forgiveness daily in our lives so God's forgiveness

[00:19:02] is not there's no strings attached but for some of us to forgive ourselves it's not only an act

[00:19:09] of allowing ourselves to forgive ourselves a choice sometimes we know that the way we forgive ourselves

[00:19:17] is to actually make a men's what we've done to put right what you have damaged essentially

[00:19:22] as a way of saying it so taking steps to make a men's for your actions this may involve apologizing

[00:19:30] offering restitution or committing to positive change in some behavior and a lot of to leave

[00:19:38] you so this is the book that monkey's orientation I'll book about holding a song writing in here

[00:19:42] about about forgiveness of sins and the thing we talk about in here is about how we might go

[00:19:48] about forgiving ourselves it's chapter seven it's chapter is called missobote missobote mit zv

[00:19:56] a h h so Jewish ideas not a Christian idea it's a Jewish idea but I really love this because it allows

[00:20:04] us to make right or make a men's what we have done this is not for God's benefit it's almost

[00:20:11] for our benefits I'm just let me read this out to you my friend jude and i were debating the

[00:20:18] Jewish understanding of forgiveness it was telling me about how his son had broken the command to

[00:20:24] honor your mother and father by telling a lie to put things right his son had to recognize his sin

[00:20:31] he had to confess it to his parents and he had to do mits of old missobote is a word used

[00:20:37] within jews deersum to refer to the 613 commands found in the Torah the term missobote

[00:20:45] in modern Judaism has also come to express any act that makes a men's for your sin essentially

[00:20:51] the world is broken because of your sin and God is looking for people to help him put it back together again

[00:20:58] you could argue that Christ's death and resurrection is a form of mits of oats in that is

[00:21:06] making a men's for the sin that humanity is caused but it missobote is the entire idea of the

[00:21:12] criminal making the events or Christ becomes the criminal for us in the cross doesn't he?

[00:21:17] so there's some level of what Jesus does in the cross would be argued as making the world right

[00:21:22] again putting right with what is broken it goes on let me treat it a bit further jude uh

[00:21:29] understands mits of oats the threefold response to our sin firstly we need to admit the sin and

[00:21:34] name it secondly we need to confess the sin to the person we have sinned against and finally

[00:21:40] need to try and make things right for example if I broke something to make things right i might

[00:21:46] repair or replace it if i said something bad about somebody i might need to publicly commit an act

[00:21:52] of kindness so others saw me putting things right with the person and it kind of goes on so

[00:21:57] this idea is not traditionally a Christian idea at all but it is this idea of if you've taken

[00:22:07] something out of the world that's positive you're going to put something back into the world that's

[00:22:12] positive to make a men's and and i like this now this is not for God's benefit this is for my

[00:22:19] benefit i'm somebody who has hurt somebody else and i'm particularly struggling to set myself

[00:22:28] free from that they've forgiven me obviously then actually a part of that making a men's could be

[00:22:32] quite helpful so doing something to make this right and you're going to be careful when you do this

[00:22:40] because sometimes people might do this to try and forgiveness from someone else this isn't about

[00:22:45] that this is about you putting something back right into the world but you might have taken out so

[00:22:51] if possible take steps to make a men's for your actions this may involve apologising

[00:22:56] of a restitution or committing to a positive change in your behaviour or doing something for somebody

[00:23:04] to make things right so for some of us to forgive ourselves we might find it helpful to do

[00:23:10] something kind for someone that we know we have done something against doesn't mean they have to forgive

[00:23:15] us does it mean that it means there'll be any change in the relationship but it just means

[00:23:20] that you are trying to positive back into the world so others might find that particularly helpful

[00:23:26] at number six i would say practice self compassion treating yourself with kindness and

[00:23:32] understanding recognising that others make mistakes as well as you and that you are not defined by

[00:23:39] your past actions be gentle on yourself as you work through the process of forgiveness so self forgiveness

[00:23:49] i think it is about practicing self compassion having compassion on yourself

[00:23:58] you could keep trapping yourself in that place of punishment because it makes you feel like

[00:24:03] you deserve to be in that place i deserve to be imprisoned by this guilt because of what i have done

[00:24:13] and choosing to practice self compassion on yourself the same way that you might do that with so

[00:24:17] one else who themselves are going through you know somebody's doing something to you and you say

[00:24:23] look bless you go peace you know be set free from this it's not a big deal behaving in the same way to

[00:24:31] yourself seven focus on personal growth and i would say that apart for giving ourselves is focusing

[00:24:40] on how we may choose to grow through this particular situation using the experiences and

[00:24:47] opportunity for personal growth and development you know you know setting goals for yourself

[00:24:53] are working towards becoming the person that you want to be you know that's what i behave like in

[00:24:58] the past i'm going to press on forward now it's a little bit like what Paul was saying isn't it

[00:25:04] but one thing i do forgetting what lies behind a straining forward to what lies ahead

[00:25:10] something like personal growth is choosing to look i'm not going to keep looking back

[00:25:13] because but i am going to choose to look forwards i can't change what i've done that i can change

[00:25:18] how i do things going forwards so apart of forgiving ourselves maybe to say okay I've been foolish

[00:25:28] there's no amount of self pity is going to change what's happened and you may think you're

[00:25:34] despicable and you may think of yourself in a way that is there to burden yourself you know i'm

[00:25:41] I'm going to choose to draw a line under that because i want to make sure this pushes me forward

[00:25:46] and i become someone better because of it so choosing to choose the future rather than past

[00:25:53] choosing to live in the future rather than living in the past i think that's a key

[00:25:58] part of self forgiveness focusing on the growth of what is ahead of us then my eighth point

[00:26:04] would be this so you can support i think if you want to forgive yourself then the way to do that

[00:26:11] is in community and it's with the care and love others who may speak into that situation for

[00:26:19] you are catch you when you start to speak ill of yourself again so seek some support

[00:26:25] with friends family church members if you find it difficult to forgive yourself consider

[00:26:30] seeking support from a trusted friend family and about our mental health professional they can

[00:26:35] offer guidance and help you work through your emotions so six for and i think that's quite important

[00:26:40] in particular if you know that you have some mental health issue that doesn't allow you to move on

[00:26:46] you get trapped you know if you've got ADHD it's possible to become so um it's excited on something

[00:26:55] that you can't let yourself past it so you may need some outside voice to speak in

[00:27:02] to allow you to unlock yourself from the burden of what has happened so seeking support of friends

[00:27:09] family members professionals and like they can help unlock it sometimes when you can't do

[00:27:16] yourself because you're so wrapped up you're stewing in your you're you're locked in your own thoughts

[00:27:23] and you're just destroying yourself with negative thinking of yourself so allowing others to speak

[00:27:29] in so how to forgive yourself from passing well we're talking about the prodigal son and he

[00:27:35] had to make this decision to go home there's an act of other moment there is like i just need to

[00:27:39] turn back i need to go back to that place i love that the poor line stuff on choosing to draw

[00:27:45] a line under the pass of straining forward to go forward choosing to lean forward rather than back

[00:27:51] and my points where you know make a choice to forgive yourself at no as your mistakes seek forgiveness

[00:27:57] of god or people of yourself seek it learn from your mistakes making a men's practicing self

[00:28:05] compassion folks on personal growth and seeking support i think they're different ways that you can

[00:28:10] allow yourself to forgive yourself now at the end of all that i would also say of course it's prayer

[00:28:16] and it's a course the work of the Holy Spirit and allowing your heart to be transformed so yes

[00:28:22] the Holy Spirit is that's almost a given the work of the Holy Spirit is given the Bible is

[00:28:27] a given prayers always going to be a given with any christian answer that's always going to be a given

[00:28:32] those three things are essential to any life being disabled in the way of Jesus so friends i pray

[00:28:40] that you find that helpful as we explore how do i go about forgiving myself of my past friends

[00:28:48] until next time grace and peace and have a great week ahead