211. An Interview with Joy Blundell on Discipleship and the Kingdom of God

[00:00:10] I hope that you are doing well, life is treating you well.

[00:00:17] Today's episode is an interview with Joy Blundell.

[00:00:23] Joy is a location pastor of a live church in Lincoln.

[00:00:28] I've known the live network of churches and different people who have led up in a part of them

[00:00:34] for a long time. I went to a conference that they used to lead.

[00:00:39] It was like 16, 17 years old called Great Fine and that changed name and the network

[00:00:46] of changed name but these guys are doing an amazing work in and around Lincoln.

[00:00:51] I met Joy at a conference earlier this year and I thought Gosh, we need to get her on the podcast

[00:00:56] because the way that she talks about faith, unity, the Kingdom of God, the assumption was that this is great

[00:01:02] need to get her on the podcast. I'm going to be interviewing Joy on the topic of discipleship

[00:01:09] Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Living and that whole topic because we are not building

[00:01:15] congregations, we are not building denominations, it's about the Kingdom of God

[00:01:21] expanding across the UK people and countering the Kingdom of God.

[00:01:25] I wanted to really explore that with Joy today. That's what we're going to be doing

[00:01:29] with Joy. It so happens that there is connections as well from where I grow up

[00:01:36] I think there's a lot of people at the time in my home church in Norman's

[00:01:42] and Joy attended and I don't know if it's a truth because I've asked this but

[00:01:47] somebody told me that she grew up in home birth which if you know the TV show

[00:01:53] last to the summer line, that's home birth.

[00:01:57] There are many connections going back to where I grew up and Joy.

[00:02:02] It interview with Joy Blundell, she's fantastic.

[00:02:05] Do check out the charity that she leads and do check out the church that she leads

[00:02:10] as well because I think they're doing some really, really interesting and fun stuff

[00:02:15] serving God through those things.

[00:02:17] So let's jump in. It was an interview with Joy today as we explored

[00:02:21] discipleship and the Kingdom.

[00:02:23] Thank you so much for spending time with us on making disciples today.

[00:02:35] It's such a joy to have you in us.

[00:02:38] I didn't mean to say twice that was a clunky but welcome.

[00:02:41] Thank you. We're all close to be here.

[00:02:43] Tell us a bit about yourself, where are you in the country?

[00:02:46] What do you do? Just so those that don't know who you are might feel like they

[00:02:50] kind of, oh yeah, I know where this person is and I know what they do.

[00:02:53] Yep, so I live in Lincoln which is in between Sheffield and Skegnes.

[00:02:58] Those people don't know where Lincoln is but it's in the middle to the east of it

[00:03:03] and I church leader.

[00:03:06] I also direct to charity so I found it a charity about 18 years ago

[00:03:12] and lead that as well.

[00:03:14] So all about how we serve and the people in our city really.

[00:03:19] So what is the charity?

[00:03:21] It's called Actress and it is just about being active in our city.

[00:03:28] Serving people in all different ways walks of life.

[00:03:32] Amazing.

[00:03:33] So tell us a bit about your own discipleship.

[00:03:35] How did you grow as a disciple? Who are the people that disciple do you?

[00:03:39] What did it look like for you as you grew in faith?

[00:03:42] Well, I think my parents really were probably my most foundational kind of

[00:03:49] of teachers on what it looks like to follow Jesus and be like him.

[00:03:55] They would express their Christianity definitely in terms of justice

[00:04:00] and kind of action and so I learned a lot from them about what it meant,

[00:04:05] how we spend our money, how that affects how we relate to God,

[00:04:11] how we care for the people in our community, how we relate to the people.

[00:04:15] And then when I came to university in Lincoln,

[00:04:20] I joined a completely different type of expression of church and learn a lot more about

[00:04:27] kind of the inward connection with Jesus and how I relate to Holy Spirit as well.

[00:04:34] So some friends in my community, in my student group really taught me a lot about what that looks like

[00:04:42] how to connect with the person of Holy Spirit and God.

[00:04:46] So really for discipleship for you, yes it's about the practical stuff there.

[00:04:51] Well, you talked about your post kind of distilled into your injustice,

[00:04:56] but also it's the work of the Holy Spirit and got at work in those powerful ways.

[00:05:01] Both of these things isn't it?

[00:05:03] Yeah.

[00:05:04] You were filled with the Holy Spirit.

[00:05:05] How did all the stuff that your parents had kind of put into you,

[00:05:10] invested into you, how did that come alive when you started to receive the Holy Spirit?

[00:05:16] Did something happen with that as well?

[00:05:18] When we see the Spirit, we just receive something and that's it.

[00:05:20] It affects everything, doesn't it?

[00:05:22] Yeah, that's really good question.

[00:05:24] I feel like the thing that happened for me was it was like the lights went on.

[00:05:29] So the kind of essence of power or feeling empowered to be more of Spos engaged in active

[00:05:39] and also helps me as Spos with love.

[00:05:44] So I think we can do all sorts of service and I think for me particularly seeing,

[00:05:50] I could see injustice everywhere without trying.

[00:05:54] And if you look at that just from a kind of lack point of view or looking at what's wrong with the world

[00:06:01] without a sense of love, deep love for the people or then it just becomes Spos.

[00:06:08] I suppose what the Bible says, like a noisy, climbing symbol.

[00:06:12] And so I learnt with those two things coming together what it looks like for me to be much more rounded

[00:06:22] and loving in my action unless shouting maybe.

[00:06:27] Yeah, a compassionate care.

[00:06:30] I love that. I love that. I think that's been my experience that as the Holy Spirit's been working me,

[00:06:37] what is ended up, I've actually become more gentle and caring whilst at the same time more precise.

[00:06:44] I know what the Lord wants from us for the same time, which is more compassionate and caring for those that you see right in front of you as well.

[00:06:53] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:55] So as you've got in a disciple, your understanding of discipleship, what does it look like in your mind to be disciple in the local church?

[00:07:04] You know, what does that look like for us to live out our faith through the local church to transform our local communities?

[00:07:14] Well, I think it looks like so many things and it's like expressive itself in so many different ways.

[00:07:22] For me, it's really important that kind of being amongst people and in community.

[00:07:27] And kind of chipping off the roof edges off each other so that we can become more like Jesus.

[00:07:34] My experience of growing up in a different kind of church to the church I am in and lead now was that it was just kind of a service to go to

[00:07:44] or something that happens on Sunday.

[00:07:47] And for me, the what I read of in the Bible and my experience and try and live out although you know it's easier said than done is being in relationship with people all the way through the week

[00:08:00] and being really open and sharing life with people that meals, tanned together ups, downs like all of the good the buddley and the ugly.

[00:08:09] And seeing having people speak into my life so that when I'm doing something that's not really live in or maybe being a bit show your reality.

[00:08:20] I've got people who can say, oh that's not quite like you all like you live in the for Jesus or where they show me what it looks like for the as they live for Jesus and that for me that's the most important bit.

[00:08:35] And that can be in any context where wherever God's put us so whatever our Monday looks like if you're a bank I've got friends who are bankers or work at the university or working the corner shop and I suppose that's where there will be hits the road that are like connection and community with each other.

[00:08:54] And kind of propels us into whatever else we're doing where we get to live that out be more like Jesus and do the things Jesus did wherever we are tomorrow or this evening.

[00:09:07] Yeah, so what you're talking about there is church is a place that is equipping us for life.

[00:09:15] Yeah church isn't the main event it's not like that this thing that we go to is the main event what you're talking about is a place of community where we encounter each other in catacod and it changes us for.

[00:09:30] The stocking of the shelves yeah, it equips us for the life stuff doesn't it.

[00:09:37] Where is that gone wrong like where do you see that go wrong in churches where the church becomes more about gathering than it does about the sending.

[00:09:47] I think as a church leader it's really easy to pull into the trap of well we've just got to pull something off on a Sunday that makes Sunday work and so we need to talk about how we fill our kids teams in our coffee rotors and all of that and we're the ones that microphone so we're the ones that get to kind of have our agenda.

[00:10:10] And I think it's gone wrong when we're trying to create something that is just a club on a Sunday and I think.

[00:10:18] We forget what our real purpose is and we forget what our story is that we're living in and so I think.

[00:10:28] I just think it's easy with us all being having our own we want a bit of successful people or we want to do everything really really well and then.

[00:10:37] We perhaps just get confused about what success looks like and so success looks like some we think sometimes success looks like having more people come in to be part of our club and less about what it looks like to fill the whole earth with God's love and to go.

[00:10:56] And I guess no, come.

[00:10:58] Now so let's say what you're talking about there is that the difference between congregation and kingdom.

[00:11:02] Yeah.

[00:11:03] And if you're building a congregation then you're interested in the gathering when you're building the kingdom of God you're interested in the equipping for the Sunday.

[00:11:12] Yeah, that's right.

[00:11:13] Yeah.

[00:11:14] And I think you know so many of us has church leaders start off being kingdom but then so deviate towards congregation A because it gets busy pastoral things.

[00:11:24] Financers, buildings you know all of these things that kind of pulls back to congregation.

[00:11:29] But really what we're doing is we're equipping the saints for kingdom work.

[00:11:34] Can't we in the reality of life not in our church buildings?

[00:11:38] Yeah and knowing that kingdom life so so many times I have conversations with Christians and when and ask for example where do you get to build the kingdom and they might have amazing things that they're doing a lot of Monday.

[00:11:52] But they think about what they're doing on a Sunday so they you know there might be a teacher and in my head they can build the kingdoms in so many brilliant ways in a school.

[00:12:03] But then they'd say oh well when I'm on kids team on a Sunday and I think we've just got to change the story and the narrative to remember and it starts with people who have the microphone on a Sunday really to help with that.

[00:12:17] But so that we don't have this divide between.

[00:12:21] And what we think of is our thing that we do for God and the rest of our life but it's everything.

[00:12:27] Yeah and I think congregations play a really important role in that to inspire each other and to kind of be equipped like a bit like him you go to the gym.

[00:12:37] I've got to go to gym to work muscles.

[00:12:40] I think being in coming and being part of a church community is like being in a gym or can be but then we've got to then go and put that into practice somewhere.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:53] Can I just push you more on this because I think how do we live out our faith in the whole of our lives?

[00:13:05] And you know we know it's about the kingdom of God.

[00:13:08] God the kingdom of God is at work and the kingdom is you're Jesus here there, everything's all around.

[00:13:14] God is at work. How do we as disciples take the responsibility to be people who are living out that kingdom?

[00:13:23] You talk about school.

[00:13:25] You know if you're stuck in the shelves, if you're at the bus stop.

[00:13:28] If you work in an office block or that you are, you know, the guy that empties the bins in the street, you just know what we're doing.

[00:13:36] How do we live out that kingdom? What is that?

[00:13:39] What should we be thinking about as disciples as we live out our faith in the everyday?

[00:13:45] Yeah. Well, I like to use the passage in Isaiah 61 that Jesus quotes in Luke 4 when he announces his ministry and he says spirit of the sovereign Lord is upon me because he's anointed me blah blah blah blah.

[00:14:00] And like I think in there you can find different elements of what we would I am in our church team call the signs of the kingdom.

[00:14:09] So we talk about well, when the kingdom comes there's comfort and joy and deliverance and freedom and this healing and this peace.

[00:14:20] And so if those things are absent in our work or our world, in our families, in our neighborhoods then our job as people that have been kind of co-opted with God, called into partnership with them recruited onto his team is to

[00:14:38] work with him to see what is absent in our present. So if there's a lack of hope then what does it look like for us to bring hope to something or if there's a lack of peace, what's it look like for us to work to bring peace or joy or freedom and so it looks very different in every context but I think as we start to think about those things and pray and ask God,

[00:15:06] we know that it's his desire that those things happen. How do we follow him into what he's already doing there and join him to see more comfort or to see more peace or hope.

[00:15:20] That's a bit abstract but I guess in a like I've got a few stories of I've got a friend who's a teacher who does an amazing job at in her she leads schools so she got quite senior role in a multi academy trust and she kind of goes and helps fail in schools turn around and where there's no hope where children have been really neglected.

[00:15:47] She worked really hard to support the teachers to know that telling stories of when they've done it before and they've managed to help children who have

[00:15:58] feel like they've got no hope to bring in lots of different agencies and people who can support them and volunteers to show them that there is the can be hope and to raise aspirations and I think that's the sign of the kingdom when that happens and when a school flourishes or a neighborhood flourishes or a business starts to grow and do good things.

[00:16:22] I think that's the kingdom's coming.

[00:17:52] When there are any batteries in the brew when there are any sick when there are anybody in domestic violent relationship and they become the signs of the kingdom.

[00:18:02] And in the most stories I think it's really helpful for people when we see our hears stories of that set.

[00:18:09] In fact when we name it and go that's the kingdom there isn't it that's the kingdom there.

[00:18:13] Have you got you the examples of where you're seeing regular disciples of Jesus living out their faith and seeing the kingdom coming maybe in a workplace as during their homes or in their streets?

[00:18:28] I think loads I think every Sunday are church we do this thing where we ask people to talk about the signs of the kingdom.

[00:18:35] So we say whenever you see in YouTube's one of the signs and then you tell us where have you seen that and then we'll pray for you.

[00:18:44] So there's a guy called Josh who works and supports he works in the county council he's bought organizations working with young people who are being at risk of incredible like what disadvantaged and traffic in a county lines kind of drug stuff.

[00:19:07] He described a couple of Sundays ago just about how he would sit with in really putting in himself like in a quiet feels quite depressing and exhausting work listening to some of the stories and do some of the interventions.

[00:19:25] But a bit like Jesus did pour in himself out so that he can bring joy and hope into these workers lives who are supporting these children.

[00:19:36] And then I heard a story a couple of weeks ago a woman who works on a ward in the hospital in Lincoln and just sitting with people and their families as they have in some really tricky diagnoses and.

[00:19:54] And just you know like not necessarily saying because she can't kind of pray for you, but just saying.

[00:20:03] I like I want to be a comforting presence here with you so I'm going to sit and hold your hand and I'm going to empathize and hear you.

[00:20:16] And then there's like some stories of some businesses in our church you have something it's easy to see like as the how a nurse could do it or how a teacher could do it because it's also like tearing you know and.

[00:20:29] But this there's different a business guy who works in retail and he has happens consultancy to connect the people who sell their clothes or make the clothes in light and pull with.

[00:20:46] The people big corporations that buy the t-shirts and to reconnect those like people to people to remember that was a face behind the maker and that actually as they do that remember there's an individual it just made these clothes.

[00:21:03] We want to work for justice for them so that we can give them the kind of conditions we would give if they live next door to us and so.

[00:21:11] I those stories of sometimes we can like try and change a system but when that's a faceless system.

[00:21:19] It doesn't have as much power as when you put a face to it and say that's a person and we want to make it fair for that person.

[00:21:26] You're what you're talking about reminds me of Romans 12 and I've just kind of pulled the appeal on my phone it's a new live on the message I was actually is a really nice way of putting this as here's what I want you to do.

[00:21:37] God help you take your everyday ordinary life you're sleeping you're eating you're going to work and you're walking around life and place it before God is an offering.

[00:21:45] You know what you're talking about there are people who are taking the everyday normal moments of their life and they're choosing to say where is God either present can I work with him already or where is the kingdom not at work yet.

[00:22:03] Where are those that need care and I can bring that as a part of who I am so it's the everyday normal.

[00:22:13] Walking around as it's the message translation walking around life you're sleeping life you're working out right where we're in all of this.

[00:22:23] Can I see the kingdom at work more clearly through me being there that that's it isn't it yeah and I think it's a really.

[00:22:32] Interesting type of balance to work of where can I go and partner with God and be humble and serve.

[00:22:41] Versus where can I go and be the answer to the like I'm like God's in a way we are God's gift to the world but you know there's a different like posture of thinking I'm going to rescue these people or I'm going to like be the solution to this versus I'm going to just be a conduit for God's presence and.

[00:22:59] In humility I'm going to serve and I think sometimes as questions we kind of.

[00:23:06] I've seen us I have done it as well like jumping with two feet and go I'm going to be the solution to this and.

[00:23:14] People spot that my love and I think that's there's some discipleships to first as we in our posture of how we serve that sometimes is not all about us and that's a really good well often it's not all about us and that's just a really good.

[00:23:28] Like knocking off the refuges as well as we go and do those things.

[00:23:35] The thing is both both these two things are true Jesus is the light of the world and Jesus says you are the light of the world like both those things are true Jesus is the answer.

[00:23:47] But also we are the light of the world you know we become the answer because Christ is shining through us so it is both those things is a tight road because.

[00:23:55] There's a danger when we think we could solve things on our own and we can't solve anything on our own it's only when he shines through.

[00:24:03] So we've got to be careful that we're not becoming our own version of the savior.

[00:24:06] Yeah, whilst at the same time Jesus wants to use our hands of feet he loves partnering with us doesn't he.

[00:24:13] And yeah, I've a lady church who works at quite almost real hospital and just as an amazing work with really vulnerable.

[00:24:21] El children and just the way she chooses the question to bring what is a lot of hope into what sometimes is very hopeless places it's just I see it and that's the king that is the kingdom of God.

[00:24:35] And it is just beautiful and sometimes she gets concerned you know I'm going to do this on my own on my own I do that right now like you're clearly.

[00:24:42] God is at work through you in this place.

[00:24:45] But it is a tight road like when am I doing this on my own steam when am I doing this for my own glory.

[00:24:51] When am I doing it actually Jesus is all over it I don't even see you know there's all of that kind of stuff that we have to check ourselves don't we.

[00:25:00] Well it's going to say anything that's like all the stuff on the server on the map where Jesus is always like it's like the topsy survey really it's only on the inside do we have know what our motives are and then like when we give do it in secret don't let you left on there what you write as doing all of that stuff is like really want you to give I want you to fast but just watching motives like watch how you do it that's probably the biggest discipleship call is.

[00:25:27] What's going on on the inside because we can look all really perfect on the outside but it's whether it's our worship to God.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:36] It's about what we want to go out of it is.

[00:25:38] It comes back to that kingdom thing doesn't need you know what is the kingdom we're building is it arcing to my his is it our glory house or his glory.

[00:25:46] And you know ultimately we end up looking foolish when we try to build our own.

[00:25:53] Yeah.

[00:25:54] Yeah.

[00:25:55] We'll clock it and they know what's going on today.

[00:25:58] So as somebody who.

[00:26:02] I don't know driving instructor how would how would I as a driving instructor start to ask the question how do I live this king what is this how do I start to work out for me.

[00:26:15] You know in a job that maybe doesn't it isn't in the care industry it's not with vulnerable people what how might I work out what it looks like for me to be the kingdom of God in a place that's somewhat like.

[00:26:30] It's not front line you know you might you might work in a print shop.

[00:26:35] Yeah.

[00:26:36] How do I work out the kingdom for me and my print shop.

[00:26:39] Yeah.

[00:26:40] I love the way some people put it like not you know that those wrist bands what would Jesus do but rather what would Jesus.

[00:26:49] What would Jesus do if he was me like what did look like if he lived my life if he was a driving instructor what might Jesus do as a driving instructor and the really simple kind of us pose.

[00:27:04] Kind of answer would be what's he saying and where's he leading you and where are the opportunities to kind of pray for the signs of the kingdom like when you teach and so on to drive and like they're not.

[00:27:18] And it feels very happy or they want them they need comfort or then you piece and it's just asking God.

[00:27:26] Would you show me like wherever you are working this person's life on how I partner with you.

[00:27:32] To do that and where were you leading me today but it's really I think it's just so unique because I'm not a driving instructor and so and actually as a church leader is so obvious what you know where God's at work because it's so explicitly Christian and I think the challenge we should be.

[00:27:53] I'm really really emphasizing all the time these are the people on the front line driving instructors and shopkeepers and artists how do we help them to think what Jesus how would Jesus do there so if he were me.

[00:28:08] And it's probably like you know how does how would he manage the books and how would he speak to the clients and how would he what would he do in secret.

[00:28:18] I love that another two questions you know what is the Lord saying what is he leading me to.

[00:28:24] I think that's a really good question.

[00:28:28] I have to say to people if you don't know what's happening right you know no don't know what you're going to do right in front of you then I asked the question you know who's to the side to feel like who are you with.

[00:28:38] And how do you just love him and how do you show them you know that love he doesn't you know you might not know who's in front of you but you might know actually I had to sign it this colleague every day.

[00:28:48] And how are you going to love him how are you going to show him love.

[00:28:51] And so start so start there it's the whole me and my thing you know do watch right in front of you until God tells you to do something and you know till you do be a cook bearer to the king just keep being a cook bearer.

[00:29:02] But God's something different.

[00:29:04] I think some people are like what you know what's my purpose where's we're calling and I think sometimes we just miss what Scott made you and what do you absolutely love like where what you talk about all the time and where do you find joy.

[00:29:16] And I think God so good that he made us like our purpose and so like it's not too hard find you know if you like cooking or you like talking to people or you can do that in your with the staff in your staff room or.

[00:29:32] serving the people that you serve yeah so just finding what she's sweet spot what the things that you could have.

[00:29:37] Yeah I love that I love that thank you that I was going to just ask him if somebody is listening to this and thinking do you know what I really want to work out how I use my Monday to Friday my Monday to Saturday.

[00:29:50] Just my ordinary life for him you know what have you come across any good books resources or anything that that is my like go to on this topic is there anything that you've come across.

[00:30:02] That could be helpful for somebody.

[00:30:04] Well I think London is to come temporary Christianity LICC website's got absolutely loads of resources on kind of what that would look like.

[00:30:16] I like books I don't know actually I'd like haven't particularly read a book that I think this is really helpful.

[00:30:25] There's a few different courses you can do and people that are offering like courses.

[00:30:32] I'm a friend of mine is a like coach and she has something called the purpose pursuit her name's how the Hanamila so you can Google her.

[00:30:41] But yeah I don't know that I don't know if we've really as a church got to that point where we're really helping people are you my no Chris but we do a few things in our church but it's not something that's like published or that people couldn't kind of you can come to my church and I can like.

[00:31:00] Help but yeah I don't have a straight answer.

[00:31:04] I can highly recommend Hanamila and the work that she does as well.

[00:31:08] She's she is an absolute legend and so yeah I need to get on the podcast.

[00:31:13] Yeah I think you're so much just spending a bit of time with us.

[00:31:19] I know your time is precious so really appreciate you just speaking into whole life discipleship with us.

[00:31:24] Yeah thank you.

[00:31:26] Bless you until next time. Grace and peace.