210. An Interview with Matt Britton About The Gospel of Mark

[00:00:09] Hi friends welcome to another episode of Making Disciples. My name is Chris and I am your host and it's so good to spend some time together as we explore

[00:00:16] More about discipleship now today

[00:00:19] Today is an interview with Matt Briton

[00:00:23] And I will be up front with you and say this is my second interview with Matt Briton

[00:00:27] We did one and the

[00:00:30] The program that we used to record failed and

[00:00:34] We lost the entire interview. Well, we at Luzolvett

[00:00:37] We we we kept three seconds of it. So

[00:00:41] Lessies cotton socks

[00:00:44] Matt

[00:00:45] gave me more time and

[00:00:47] We did another interview and it's somewhat the same

[00:00:51] But it's just different and

[00:00:53] We kind of focused on what I thought was some of the most interesting

[00:00:57] part of what we talked about the first time around now Matt as you'll see is

[00:01:02] Delivering presenting acting out the gospel of Mark and

[00:01:09] This gives him a unique

[00:01:12] Perspective on the gospel of Mark so he performs the entire gospel in one performance and

[00:01:19] He allows the the viewer to engage with this gospel in a very different way to if it was simply just being read and

[00:01:27] And it's entirety as well, so you see the rhythm you

[00:01:32] Understand kind of what recurs and what themes keep coming up and I just thought this would be so much fun to talk to him about

[00:01:39] His experience of

[00:01:42] preaching using the

[00:01:44] Gospel of Mark

[00:01:46] Delivering it performing it whatever you know whatever you want to call it because he'll spot things as

[00:01:52] An actor that we may not see so I thought let's let's get him on the podcast

[00:01:56] I'm telling you friends. I learnt some stuff

[00:02:00] So today's episode is an interview with Matt Britain

[00:02:03] If you're new to podcast and love me to subscribe or do all of that kind of stuff

[00:02:06] It's really lovely to have you with us today

[00:02:10] So welcome to making disciples let's jump in as we spend some time talking with Matt Britain about his experiences

[00:02:18] As somebody who performs the gospel of Mark

[00:02:30] Matt well welcome to making disciples. It's so lovely to have you with me

[00:02:35] Thank you for giving us a bit of your time

[00:02:37] Yes, great to be with the Chris thanks for inviting me on show we'd be open and honest and say we've already had this conversation once and it

[00:02:44] Record did it

[00:02:45] It's gonna be a better day

[00:02:47] Carvoco and I'll do it

[00:02:49] Yeah, and you know obviously you kind of know some of things I want to ask you about the dangerous now that we'll both forget

[00:02:55] What you've said and what you've not said depending on which

[00:02:59] Which episode we're talking about but Matt why don't you give us just a little

[00:03:04] snippet a window into what you do because I think you've got I think what you do is really interesting

[00:03:12] Yeah, well so I mean

[00:03:15] I guess I call myself a third to make a train does an upset in the

[00:03:21] The midnight is and then was working on an off-screen

[00:03:26] Theatre

[00:03:27] Since then as an actor and then for a good 15 years I

[00:03:31] Had you do a bit of company called in your face, which looked at

[00:03:36] Using theatre and drama to ask some of the bigger questions in life and from a safe perspective

[00:03:46] And for the last kind of 12 months

[00:03:49] I've been doing it kind of I don't like calling a one-man show, but I got thinking of another way to call it

[00:03:56] Performing or delivering Mark's gospel. I guess using the skills of

[00:04:01] Act to

[00:04:04] Put the scripture or put it's feet and animator I guess

[00:04:08] I think this sounds so interesting. I was at New wine last year and you were performing this won't you every morning

[00:04:15] And I'm just there is sponsor that people gave you know how are people responded to you and what you're doing

[00:04:21] Do you know what I mean by a good example of new if new wine because um rather than have

[00:04:28] Kind of traditional

[00:04:30] Speaker slot we we kind of had me be by been the mornings or peach morning into four chapters of Mark and we just kind of

[00:04:40] Went for it and then at the end of it people kind of spoke

[00:04:44] I've had a discussion off the back of it and I just think there was something really really powerful about that

[00:04:51] Not because I am doing anything special. I recognize that an acto and have got a bit of craft and a bit of experience to

[00:04:58] Make it a bit more palatable

[00:05:00] But the real power is not coming from me or the performance the real power is coming through

[00:05:07] Mark's gospel the word is God especially here in it. I think in

[00:05:12] One long chunk or one long narrative because we don't often do that there we will you know

[00:05:17] sermons and stuff or

[00:05:20] Journals and stuff we we kind of take a chapter half a chapter or sometimes a verse

[00:05:26] Which is definitely merit in that but we don't often just have but whole thing in one go and I think

[00:05:32] Part of the power that what I've been seeing with Mark's gospel is seen the whole narrative in an hour and a half

[00:05:40] Things start to fit together in the start something. Oh, yeah when it's taken out of excited

[00:05:45] Moment it actually takes on a little bit of new depth a little bit more richness

[00:05:52] I'm gonna talk to you more about that a bit because that you know that I I find your approach to

[00:05:58] Are you perform it but also your approach maybe is a drama. I think really interesting

[00:06:03] I'm just going back to something else. You're just you flew by you mentioned in your face and

[00:06:10] You know some of the work that you've done is taking

[00:06:13] Dramatic performances into prisons. I'm okay

[00:06:17] You know just give us a you know what what was that like and how did you see people respond you know in my head

[00:06:23] Reason is full of real hard nuts and the last thing they won is

[00:06:30] Something dramatic you know, but that's not true is it you know you experienced people really responding

[00:06:37] So just give us a bit of an idea of what you were doing in the prison and how people will respond to that?

[00:06:43] Yeah, well

[00:06:43] I'm with the funny thing is when you said about prisons full of hard nuts is that

[00:06:48] There's been more than one occasion where the the guards come in and they do the head count and this counts it to me as well

[00:06:56] And it is but sometimes we think no please don't take me and lock me up behind bars

[00:07:01] But yeah some of the things that I think in prison is

[00:07:06] I think if you do things well and you treat people with respect and you don't go in with all the solutions

[00:07:12] But you're kind of

[00:07:13] Poosing questions and you're kind of um

[00:07:17] I don't give in people to think about that on pace. I think people do respond

[00:07:22] And I think I've just been kind of thinking about this over the last week as well

[00:07:28] So prison the say

[00:07:30] In terms of like the way people think and learn

[00:07:34] They've often had quite a bad experience of education and they say that over 50% of inmates in prison have a reading game

[00:07:43] Which kind of matches about that over

[00:07:47] Under the age of 11 so they're not so they're not necessarily gonna engage with the written works

[00:07:52] And then we were posed with a problem with when it comes to like

[00:07:56] Scripture because if you know if they're not gonna read it how they're gonna access

[00:07:59] So it's not like as I own where we can just plug YouTube on because

[00:08:04] You've not got like mobile devices in prison

[00:08:07] So I think what they're an acting can do is it can kind of retell these stories

[00:08:13] So like the mask gospel and literally just telling it but verbating however in the past of also

[00:08:20] Recreated I guess that in my own words a contemporary version of the

[00:08:25] The story of the prodigal son and we kind of reset it in a prison context

[00:08:31] But actually the heart of what the story about is still complete with the saying

[00:08:36] People respond in a

[00:08:39] The end of that particular play is an example

[00:08:42] We kind of had this moment, you know, so in the story of the prodigal son you have the

[00:08:46] The father see in the son in the distance and then he runs off any kind of embraces him

[00:08:51] Well in the prison concept we kind of added where the son invites

[00:08:56] He's

[00:08:57] Estranged father into a prison visit and they just kind of I guess reconnect and you know

[00:09:05] The father kind of to give him for some of the things that he's done and we saw off the back of that

[00:09:13] You know as you said like hard and people like wiping it here from their eye on the front row of it

[00:09:20] And off the back of that we heard from the prison work is that they were actually doing that thing

[00:09:24] We're writing to the families in the mind to when

[00:09:28] Prison visits so I do think that

[00:09:31] Story can unlock things in people that maybe other things can not I guess we asked you that

[00:09:39] In general, I think music and songs and art does it as well and especially if literacies not your big thing

[00:09:46] It's definitely a good way to communicate and I think that is why so may a

[00:09:51] Keep revisiting prisons like a in style prison this women's prison

[00:09:56] Used to go in week and we call help and then create their own theater so it was a way of kind of getting

[00:10:03] Their stories their experiences their things that they want to say the way that they look at the world

[00:10:09] In a way that's easy because you just put it on your feet rather than having to have those

[00:10:15] Skills have been able to read and write does I make sense?

[00:10:19] Hopefully and actually I would say this is more authentic isn't it because this idea that we read the gospels is actually a modern idea

[00:10:26] You know, we've only had

[00:10:28] The gospels in English for a short period of time in reality

[00:10:32] It's only a number of hundred years whereas performing and reading out a community engagement

[00:10:38] With the text is actually how the the church you know for 15 you know hundred years

[00:10:43] That's how you know how they were doing in many areas now the gospel is red and you hear it

[00:10:47] People don't necessarily have a copy of their own so there's something more authentic isn't there about listening to the story be performed

[00:10:54] Kind of in music and I think if you go back to that

[00:10:58] Famous verse from the letter of James where he says what we do is of the word and not here is only

[00:11:04] He's not saying but we do is of the word and not read as only same here is because he knows that people

[00:11:11] I'm going to be listening to these letters and I don't know how historically true this is but in my

[00:11:17] I imagine in these house churches of the early church, you know the latest letter from

[00:11:23] Paul from prison the old got there round and the read it out and the kind and Paul's dealing with some quite

[00:11:30] Complex theological thoughts and that they're all wrestling it together and say I'll read that bit back again

[00:11:36] What's he saying here?

[00:11:39] You know I've had you know I've had similar experiences like years ago. I

[00:11:44] I was invited to

[00:11:48] For this television job to be a scriptwriter it was an interview and I was really really

[00:11:54] Excited and then I kind of read the letter to me. Why friends are the rest of this family and we all kind of

[00:11:59] Just double checking what the letter was saying there's something different about reading all that a yourself and

[00:12:05] Read and it's a gather you get different perspectives and I think that's what happens with scripture

[00:12:10] And I think that's that's one of things that I've been experiencing with Mark Scott's school that when you're in a room full of people

[00:12:17] You can just feel that we're on a journey together and different people are getting different things from it

[00:12:24] And then the conversations at the end of the performance people have made me think because I've been thinking

[00:12:31] I've been doing this but I don't know how many months and I have not seen that so it's

[00:12:36] I think there's definitely something in my community experience

[00:12:42] Hmm

[00:12:42] Brilliant and that pivot is quite nice. He too

[00:12:46] I want to ask you why did you choose the gospel of Mark you know your four options

[00:12:50] You could choose any of them and

[00:12:53] You know you could even say that some of them like like John the way that it maybe

[00:12:58] Structure around all the signs the miracle you could that would be a good one to do but you chose Mark like why did you choose Mark?

[00:13:06] I wish there was a whole year answer what the answer is because it's the shortest so um, you know

[00:13:12] I was I have decided here if

[00:13:17] Let's see if I can kind of

[00:13:19] Learn the scripture and perform it and I want to kind of perform it in I knew I didn't probably go into churches

[00:13:24] But I like to perform it in prisons and pubs and stuff like that so I knew that I'd need you to be able to know this

[00:13:31] Script in a way

[00:13:34] Really really well because those kind of those kind of audiences are not your traditional host

[00:13:39] There, rodents is so you're gonna have to be really focused

[00:13:43] So Mark got us both all of that

[00:13:45] Probably gonna be the best bet because it's the shortest it's only 16 chapters

[00:13:50] But as I've then got into it, I thought I think the exact I think there is more to this than a first thought that

[00:13:57] That Mark's gospel goes read of it like a

[00:14:00] Ducky of drama

[00:14:02] Because it's kind of like short snippets of stories and we get a little snack cheese of conversations

[00:14:07] Where is with John's gospel we get these long beautiful

[00:14:12] Speaks and conversations and sermons

[00:14:16] We don't really get that with Mark's gospel we get and this up and then this up and then suddenly this up and then immediately this happened

[00:14:23] Which actually lends itself quite well to an acting out because

[00:14:28] I so for me I cut my acting jobs on

[00:14:32] sketch there so when I first became the bushelacto is kind of doing like short comedy sketches that are about three minutes

[00:14:41] And you know if you don't get a laughing one comedy sketch it doesn't particularly matter because you've got another one

[00:14:45] Coming along soon

[00:14:47] But this is the same with Mark's gospel that you know you jump into one miracle or one parable to another

[00:14:53] And if one's not kind of like floating you know don't worry because there's another one coming very soon and I think for

[00:15:00] Kind of the audiences that I've been going to all the groups or congregations that often have short attention spans

[00:15:08] This is the golf ball for them because it really

[00:15:11] suits a short

[00:15:13] attention span I think you're right

[00:15:17] You know when we look at the gospels the gospel of Mark, you know, we believe it was Peter who dictated it to Mark and

[00:15:24] The host which means the whole thing has a much more working class feel to it and

[00:15:29] The other thing is I think Peter probably had a GHD

[00:15:33] And you know the way that Peter behaves and the way that's a you know, you actually that got you know

[00:15:38] Immediately runs to the tomb and I think I think there's an amigio situ in that we you know

[00:15:43] That often a middle class person is oh, yeah, you know is very immediate now he's got ADHD I think and we see that don't we mark?

[00:15:49] You know, it's it's telling you a story it lasts six verses and then he's telling you with another story

[00:15:55] And this is five verses and the next one's only seven and you think actually he's

[00:16:00] It's almost like he's is giving it

[00:16:04] Speaking pace and the poor lad Mark who's right in this town is trying to keep up with him

[00:16:10] Because it does an amigio see and a directness in the gospel isn't there so I can see how Mark connects

[00:16:16] Yeah, we

[00:16:18] Even with the talk about the mean is that even with with the way it ends it just ends so abruptly so we've been

[00:16:25] Journeying with the gospel for 16 chapters and then all of a sudden

[00:16:30] We meet this guy in the tomb that's saying you're looking for Jesus the Nazarene is not areas

[00:16:37] You know he's basically resurrecting and then the women leave the tomb right and then it just finishes

[00:16:43] Again, it's almost like an ADHD way of finishing an epic story

[00:16:51] It does I mean just for listeners just so they know you know it ends with chapter 16 which is the resurrection

[00:16:57] And you have Mary and Martha they go to the tomb

[00:17:00] They see that the tomb is empty

[00:17:02] They're fear you know the trembling bewildered and then it just stops and we we've ended up with an extra

[00:17:10] I think about 10 verses added on maybe about a hundred years later

[00:17:15] Because a scribe or somebody was like this just needs a better ending and they've kind of cobbled a little quick

[00:17:22] Ending from the other gospels possibly to just land it so that it's got it's got a bit of a great commissiony bit at the end

[00:17:30] So it just directly finished doesn't it it just stops I mean do you do the entire thing in your performance right to the very end

[00:17:37] Do you stop where the choice of my name is?

[00:17:39] Yes, I stop where I believe that

[00:17:42] Originally it stopped because because I do think that is an added but on and why I think that is you know for

[00:17:52] When you rehearse in it which is basically just

[00:17:55] Meditating and she winner over you had again and again trying to let it sink into your memory

[00:18:01] You start to

[00:18:03] Get the rhythms of how it's been kind of written this this story tell us its own rhythms

[00:18:08] You get to midway through chapter six stage and the rhythms feel completely different the word

[00:18:14] Feel completely different in your mouth so in terms of like

[00:18:19] Performing it that

[00:18:21] poses a problem because it feels like oh well I'm just watching the rhythms it feels like I'm telling a different story here

[00:18:29] And also theologically it makes me think

[00:18:32] Perhaps this has been an added bit on so let's so I'm gonna wind it where

[00:18:38] Where I believe it was originally and did and I have kind of since then you know because you'd give it into commentary

[00:18:44] Still you have a sense of that people say that perhaps it ends like that because it's kind of

[00:18:50] There's an abruptness that the Peter or Mark wants us to kind of realize and now the mission starts

[00:18:57] But you what are you gonna do you help your immediate say?

[00:19:00] I mean, I don't know the reason behind it but I do know that in terms of performing it

[00:19:05] It felt different if I added on that last final bit and it didn't feel right in my mouth

[00:19:15] I love um I love how you approach this text as a drama as a story and I would love to

[00:19:25] hear from you just some of your thoughts really on

[00:19:28] Because you know how stories are structured you know if you're writing a TV player you'd have a structure to it

[00:19:33] The believe moments that happen in the story where there's twist or something happens

[00:19:37] You know as you approach Mark what do you see as a story teller

[00:19:42] That might help us engage with the gospel of Mark yeah

[00:19:47] So you I mean when you're talking about

[00:19:50] The structure of scripts you're talking about like three acts and this all all kind of

[00:19:56] Contrace back to Aristotle and who all the way to eat it around politics and story

[00:20:02] But in the middle in the middle that's right at the center of a story and you know Hollywood

[00:20:08] Executive talk about this yeah, you have an a script something that you call the midpoint

[00:20:13] So in Mark's gospel that would happen in chapter eight because we've got 16 chapters

[00:20:18] But but they say in the structure of a story at the midpoint something happens

[00:20:23] That raises the state something very important happens in the middle of the story

[00:20:28] And normally you can kind of work out how the story is going to end by what happens in the midpoint

[00:20:34] Well, it's interesting in Mark's gospel what happens in the midpoint is we get to the point where

[00:20:40] The walking through sees a ray of fill up high and Jesus turns to them and says

[00:20:46] You'd a people say I am in the same world some say you jump about this some say your Elijah some say you're a prophet

[00:20:52] And then he turns to them and say what you do you say

[00:20:54] I am and Peter says you're the Messiah and

[00:20:58] That feels like a light bulb moment you can all my

[00:21:01] Doesn't say this in the script but you could almost imagine Jesus break dancing and praising is father at this point because

[00:21:08] It's kind of got it, but yes, he's the Messiah

[00:21:12] But then what happens directly after that?

[00:21:14] He tells them what kind of Messiah he's going to be because he tells them all about well

[00:21:19] I'm gonna be handed over to the Gentiles. I'm gonna be arrested

[00:21:22] I'm gonna be marked. I'm gonna be spat at I'm gonna be killed

[00:21:26] Well three days later I will rise and then he tells them about the way of the cross that this is my way of the cross

[00:21:33] Well this if you're gonna follow me that you're gonna have to do now yourself and take up the cross as well

[00:21:39] So what we get the midpoint which is where we raise the states which is always an important part of the story

[00:21:45] Is this his Jesus say in the amlam Messiah the suffering Savior and if you want to follow me

[00:21:50] You're gonna have to expect

[00:21:53] suffering yourself because you're denying yourself and taking up your cross and then we say that right at the end of the story

[00:22:01] Don't we we say again that the matching the other thing about story structure is the beginning and the end

[00:22:08] Probably mirror or each other and we get the beginning of the story

[00:22:13] Jesus taking into the wilderness and he's quite vulnerable because he's he's fasting

[00:22:19] He's not at he's not drank surrounded by wild animals is in a vulnerable state just under the care of his father

[00:22:28] Right at the end of the story what do we get we get Jesus vulnerable again hanging on the cross

[00:22:34] Left all alone

[00:22:35] deserted and him screaming out to which father why my god my god why have you forsaken me

[00:22:42] So what we get him here is a picture of I think

[00:22:47] What Mark wants us to tell us about this Messiah is not the Messiah that you're expecting he's gonna

[00:22:54] Lord it over here and be a bit like or maybe a bit like King David this political figure that kind of restores

[00:23:01] Is rail to the the center point of the world what he says this Messiah

[00:23:07] Take some the darkness and the suffering of this will the absorbs it into himself on the cross

[00:23:13] He deals with it and that's what he's gonna do with you as well is gonna invite you into the suffering of the world

[00:23:21] What what you see and envision you to deal with it as well. So, you know

[00:23:26] Well when we talk about the church in the past I think

[00:23:29] And present it always looks the most beautiful when it goes to the the hard and broken places and

[00:23:37] Unlooks to restore it, but in order to do that you have to

[00:23:42] Touch the suffering you have to meet it. You can't kind of it's not all about this

[00:23:46] This is the way that's what it opens the bones. It's not all about Mark's gospel

[00:23:50] It's not all about you pray the sinis prayer and then you twiddle your fingers until you die and then you get heaven thrown in

[00:23:57] I think Mark's gospel is inviting us know the kingdom starts now the kingdom isn't is near now the work starts now

[00:24:07] Hmm

[00:24:08] I love that and it is like the gospel's got two halves isn't it because like the first half is Jesus doing all his signs in his wonders

[00:24:15] And then you you write you have this moment where who do you say am and then you are the Messiah

[00:24:19] Pivotal moment with an invited into that could be across and follow me and then the next thing we know

[00:24:24] It's like a death it's like a downwards like the climbs the top of a hill and now it's this downward slope isn't it

[00:24:30] To Jerusalem and then we have the you know from what chapter 11 right away through to 16 then is all about it's last week

[00:24:38] So most of the gospel mark a third of it focuses on his last week in Jerusalem

[00:24:44] So it's it's it's interesting paste isn't it like as a drama as you're saying

[00:24:49] You're the first the first half is miracles

[00:24:52] Second half really is focused around his last week and the crucifixion

[00:24:57] Yeah, you're that paste as well when you do it so I'd argue it into halves chapter one to eight and then eight to 16 now

[00:25:05] Unum the clock the both 45 minutes

[00:25:07] But the second half till so much faster and I think it is because of the the pace of the storytelling of we need to take it to this

[00:25:14] Trust this is what this is what this is the heart of the story. This is the important thing

[00:25:18] So you feel that when you perform in it

[00:25:21] Hmm

[00:25:22] It is interesting as well. You think about the different gospels. You know we could ask the question you know who is Jesus in the gospel of Mark

[00:25:29] And you definitely come away with with Jesus who is this wandering teacher

[00:25:36] Science and wonders miracles, but it's all very grounded isn't it?

[00:25:40] It's it's soil base it's life base

[00:25:42] Whereas if you were to read the gospel of John

[00:25:45] You know it's very much the cosmic Jesus you know it starts with the word became flash and that you know the word there

[00:25:50] Logos you the best way of translating it for us would be would to be you know super man

[00:25:55] It's all about this supernatural divine

[00:25:59] God who comes from somewhere else to be with us. It's a very different Jesus. He's much more grounded isn't it real life gritty?

[00:26:08] opposed to the soup you know the marvel version you could say you know Johnny's like the marvel version of Jesus

[00:26:15] Whereas at mark is is like the

[00:26:18] State base Jesus

[00:26:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think to mark it you'll like you say John John's gospel with a marvel franchise

[00:26:27] Mark's probably the version directly by Ken Lochin it was here all the kind of

[00:26:33] The issues and the the doom and the gloom

[00:26:36] But I again it comes to just after the the midpoint

[00:26:42] Mark 945 or 1045

[00:26:45] Jesus says for even the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many

[00:26:53] And that's I guess that's your your your log line that's that's the the line that would appear on

[00:26:58] The billboard of the poster of the move because it tells you everything that this is the savior

[00:27:03] The um as not come to be served like some king and what is come to serve you and and to give his life

[00:27:10] What on the cross so that and the that many can be free I love that what you make of the beginning

[00:27:20] I mean because the gospel of Mark starts with not Jesus but John

[00:27:25] And then very quickly

[00:27:27] It moved to Jesus in his calling

[00:27:30] What do you what do you think about it because it's interesting intro isn't it it's almost like an intro before the title scene

[00:27:36] Before the film starts yeah, it again because it that would said before it ends really a book like

[00:27:42] Start in the middle and nowhere as well done

[00:27:45] That's a you know in Luke's gospel and and Matthew we get the this the birth of Jesus

[00:27:51] But for whatever reason Mark don't think that's important and actually yeah, like you say the start off

[00:27:57] We start off with this scripture don't we from I think it's kind of a bit of an amalgamation of that

[00:28:02] Isaiah and Mike here and then

[00:28:05] John the Baptist

[00:28:07] comes in and immediately

[00:28:09] Jesus is sent into the wilderness and and it is it isn't it is an odd decision for

[00:28:15] Hollywood script writer to make because normally you want to kind of show the the protagonist or the hero

[00:28:23] In a good light and show that strength

[00:28:26] But but what does Mark or Peter do

[00:28:30] Like to say take the teachings of sin into the wilderness and we see and be in kind of

[00:28:35] vulnerable don't I've also heard as well and I don't know how true they say as a carton and where if picked it up from

[00:28:42] But I've heard that maybe in in those very early days that that scripture would be on you know

[00:28:49] Grounds that would be attached to these I guess wooden poles and

[00:28:54] And that perhaps every time that these scrolls were opened it would always be the beginning and end

[00:28:59] That were attached to the poles that would wear out first and maybe there was a region like a different beginning and ending

[00:29:06] Perhaps it did you know have the the commission at the end perhaps it did after the the birth of Jesus

[00:29:12] But because those scrolls were worn out that that we've lost them and that's perhaps why it starts

[00:29:19] abruptly but I think I like your ADHD theory that I think it's just

[00:29:23] Right we're just starting here now because this is what's in my head that look this moment inside

[00:29:29] My my theory behind why

[00:29:34] It starts where it starts is the actually the gospel of Mark because it's Peter's story

[00:29:41] Peter does not tell what he's not seen

[00:29:44] Oh

[00:29:45] He only tells us it from really his perspective what he's seen

[00:29:51] So the story starts with the disciples being called not with everything that happened before that because he wasn't there

[00:29:58] He didn't see that that wasn't it that it's not his testimony. Yeah

[00:30:01] His testimony is Jesus walking into his life and his life been turned upside down by this Messiah

[00:30:08] So the gospel of Mark then becomes you know Peter's story and and it's his life

[00:30:14] Of what he saw Jesus do I think that's why we end up with

[00:30:20] We straight into the narrative because that's what Peter experienced it

[00:30:23] Jesus walked into his life and the story started

[00:30:28] And that then makes sense for me for the you know for the beginning the only reason I think he drops in the whole little bit about

[00:30:34] John at the beginning is to make sense of John being killed later on

[00:30:40] and kind of yeah, I think it's it's it's a bit that he he obviously knows needs to go in there about

[00:30:46] John because he was a bit John was a big deal but it's not part of his story

[00:30:50] So even the John bit feels a little bit

[00:30:54] Um

[00:30:55] Tacked on yeah

[00:30:56] It in some

[00:30:58] That's my theory anyway. It's Peter's story and therefore Peter tells us it as he experienced it

[00:31:02] I like that

[00:31:04] Goodbye

[00:31:05] That'd be my thought and

[00:31:07] What is there anything else that has you been performing this? It's just struck you as a disciple

[00:31:15] Is there anything that's that's kind of you know come through the story that has really moved you and

[00:31:20] Making you think oh wow that's an interesting bit of this story that I've never really noticed before

[00:31:24] I mean lots of different things and and every time I perform it something no

[00:31:31] We'll stand out for me and even I'll get

[00:31:35] Different ordinances sometimes the way I deliver something will come out

[00:31:41] differently and I'll think I've never delivered it like that before

[00:31:44] I think there's something very interesting you know this ain't the word is active and alive

[00:31:49] I think I experience like there's the word kind of almost changes within my mouth in that moment

[00:31:56] Without me not ever thinking or prepare or rehearse in like that in the past

[00:32:01] But I think in terms of like you know like you said that the podcast is about making disciples and I think discipleship

[00:32:07] Does stand out for me in it because it shows to me that

[00:32:12] The discipleships like a long process

[00:32:15] So we don't begin to what would Jesus and everything is funky dory by the end of the week because you look at

[00:32:23] Matt's gospel and how many times did the disciples get it wrong so that I love the moment where Jesus is

[00:32:30] Applied this real

[00:32:32] Significant teaching moment with them and it's almost like John Stung's up and into Ropsom and says

[00:32:38] Teacher we saw a man doing miracles in your name and so we stopped him for he's not one of us

[00:32:44] And it's almost like Jesus was thinking oh my word how long have I got to be with these people?

[00:32:50] They're just totally not getting it because it is Jesus trying to break down all the barriers and they're

[00:32:55] Putting up the barriers saying please not part of our elite lobby

[00:32:59] Join in with our mission but

[00:33:02] Time and time again. We just see the disciples getting it wrong. So you know the anointing of

[00:33:08] Jesus from the woman well what is the disciples reaction the rebuke?

[00:33:12] The children are coming for a blessing what do they do the rebuke the families?

[00:33:17] And we don't want these children here you don't get them out of the way

[00:33:20] Get so many of them. Oh Jesus is probably it is most vulnerable and he's asked something

[00:33:25] Of them is asked them to pray and what do they do they fall asleep, you know maybe the

[00:33:31] The winds gone to the red and the eyes are heavy and then finally when it comes to the cross

[00:33:36] You know discover when you need some the most

[00:33:39] But in a way I find that encouraging because I found that these are the disciples that

[00:33:46] His words

[00:33:48] face to face they've been living within they've seen all these miracles

[00:33:52] And yet at times they still behave

[00:33:56] Apallently and like they've just totally not got Jesus at all

[00:34:01] And that just gives me hope because I think while I'm a little bit

[00:34:04] Up and down with my own face, you know I can go to church on a Sunday morning and feel

[00:34:10] You know really really close to God and then by the afternoon and balling and shouting at the kids, you know

[00:34:16] I'm so flaky at times but

[00:34:19] That's encouraging because Jesus didn't lose patients with his 12 and he don't lose patients with me

[00:34:26] And the disciples even though they get it wrong, they don't really pretend to be anything that they're not

[00:34:33] So again, it encourages me to think that

[00:34:36] Jesus wants me the authentic me not me with me Christian mass pretending that I've got it all

[00:34:43] I'm mad thank you. I think you're you're really onto something there right here and this whole count in the

[00:34:50] Cost as well in the you know the cost of following Jesus you see that in in the disciples and now

[00:34:59] I'd love to ask if anybody wanted to see you perform this like what's the what's the options for them

[00:35:06] Because I know that you've just recorded it as a part of your your work with proximity

[00:35:12] You know if somebody wants to see you alive or they want to see it recording like how can they do that?

[00:35:17] Yeah, yeah to option so yeah first one is that I've got me

[00:35:20] Website which is mackwritten.co.uk

[00:35:25] So you can get in contact me with me there and I'll come to your church or I'll come to your local

[00:35:32] Care home or your local school or your local prison or wherever you want to do it I'll come in

[00:35:37] Perform it we can make something work

[00:35:40] Or alternatively if you just want to check it out first like you said I've just

[00:35:45] Liction last week filmed it for proximity which will be a new resource launching in June and

[00:35:53] If you go to proximity

[00:35:55] Hub.org

[00:35:58] You'll find a page where it's where you can watch it in its entirety and you can even find like a little

[00:36:04] Devotion or that I've written alongside it that you can kind of follow with it as well

[00:36:10] So yeah to two options but I'd love to um

[00:36:13] Partner with anyone who is up for it. I just think it sounds like a really

[00:36:17] Throiling way of getting people to hear the gospel. I just think it sounds brilliant. Mack thank you for taking that you know the

[00:36:24] The step to do this and to do something a bit different in performing the gospel in this way

[00:36:30] I think I think you're really on to something interesting

[00:36:35] So really want to encourage you with that and if they do I already listen as that you know as a church

[00:36:40] You want something where you can invite people to come along and see something just a bit different

[00:36:45] I think this could be this could be a real great mission or opportunity for local churches

[00:36:50] Not eating not even eating the church but to book out a local bathroom of a pub or something

[00:36:55] To take it into the neighborhood that's that'd be brilliant. Mack thank you so much for

[00:37:00] Spending this second time with me. I really appreciate it and

[00:37:06] I just know that the way that we've been talking about the gospel of Mark today will really encourage some folk who

[00:37:13] Just want to understand a bit more about how maybe these books are put together so massive thank you for

[00:37:18] Forgive me your time nice one thanks Chris until next time grace and peace