Knowing Your Limits As A Pastor - Part 1 | Nate Holdridge

[00:00:00] This podcast is a part of CG and Media, a podcast network that points to Christ. We are supported by listeners like you to help us create more great shows visit cgmedia.org slash support. You're watching yourself versus being okay and comfortable in your own skin.

[00:00:35] That hey, this is the man that God has made me to be. He gave me to this church for a reason. He didn't give those other guys to this church and just being cool with that.

[00:00:45] Today on the Leadership Collective Ted and I are tackling a very important topic. How it's so important for you as a pastor or a leader to know what your limitations are.

[00:00:57] And you know we're not just talking about how important it is for us personally to know our limitations but as well as leaders. We need to know the limitations of our staff and the limitations of our church. Absolutely.

[00:01:11] And Ted, I'm so excited about this conversation and super stoked to have our good friend pastor, Nate Holdridge with us again, Nate's from Calvary Chapel Monore.

[00:01:21] And Nate's a great guy and I just know Ted and I, we both have great respect for you and your heart and your wisdom. The heart you have for other pastors and the heart you just have us a shepherd so welcome to the program Nate.

[00:01:39] Thanks guys it's awesome to be with you every opportunity I get. I love sitting in the room with you guys and I think I'm a great guy to have on this episode because I'm one of the most limited house. I'm going to help out.

[00:01:55] There we go man, I love that. Man and those in the cell. You know it's funny because we all have those pastors and role models that guys we look up to you know guys like Pastor Chuck Smith.

[00:02:10] Who just seemed to have it all together had this large capacity for ministry and a lot of times I've noticed people that we look up to or want to emulate their people who. Well, they're not people we can realistically keep up with all the time you know.

[00:02:29] And I'm just curious just to kind of get the conversation going wind it it dawn on you guys that you were limited in certain areas and you know how do you adjust what kind of adjustments did you have to make.

[00:02:42] Well I'll go ahead and start and I want to answer this in from two different perspectives and I'll do the first one first and that was from when I planted the church in Oregon and some things that I definitely saw early on there.

[00:02:57] And then I'd love to just hear from you guys and then I'll kind of circle back around to when I took over for Brian at Calre vista and you know quickly learn some things there but you know for me.

[00:03:09] When I first planted the church in Oregon in 1991 we went out with a skeleton crew it was me my wife and our two kids that were under three that was our team and.

[00:03:23] But I came from this administration at Calre vista that was just an incredible ministry and was doing so many things and so many things well and there was definitely.

[00:03:36] A heart toward excellence and so that was what I really desired to accomplish and do you know when I was starting the church and and so I started off kind of micro managing every single aspect of the church.

[00:03:51] I had my hands in everything and sort of you know assume that CEO type of role and I know pastors and our movement especially some of our first generation guys that seem like they were really good at that that they could you know lead a major corporation.

[00:04:07] But I quickly found out it was about three or four months into the church plant the Lord showed me that I wasn't wired that way and the Lord basically said to me like he was like like you can run the church and every aspect of it.

[00:04:20] Or you can be the main teacher and you can disciple and shepherd and meet with people but you can't do both.

[00:04:27] And that was a big big turning point for me to you know kind of come to that place where it's like I realized I just can't I'm not wired that way I would die and so have a cook to two is one of my life versus you know right the vision make it plain so that those who read it may run with it.

[00:04:48] And so from there I just had to learn in that moment to delegate to release things and trust things into you know different people even some of these you know early volunteers that the Lord brought around that he had called to be a part of our ministry and so.

[00:05:07] And I was like I'm not even with the children's ministry gallon saying okay here's the vision here's what you want to focus on but this baby's yours and then just take my hands off of it.

[00:05:16] And it was amazing it was so incredible because you know I I learned from that that you know God had brought these people to be a part of this but also.

[00:05:28] And I think that's the thing things and oftentimes I come to find out later that the way that they did it was better than I would have done it anyway.

[00:05:37] But that was a big test you know big challenging you know point for me and it was kind of humbling because.

[00:05:44] And our movement that just seemed to do that type of thing that CEO you know type of thing really really well and still be great phenomenal Bible teachers but God showed me very early that's not the way he's wired me. Yeah, what about you Nate.

[00:06:02] Yeah, for me I was thinking about this question you know when what was the first time you realize you're limited in certain areas and for me it probably goes all the way back to kindergarten and.

[00:06:15] When they were least us to the playground and I realized I couldn't be all the other boys to the playground equipment like okay.

[00:06:23] Or as I got older and I realized I couldn't dunk a basketball or I mean there's just so many times where obviously you come face to face with your limitations but. A big memory I have in ministry you know my senior pastor ministry.

[00:06:39] Dove tells timeline wise perfectly with the rise of the smartphone and the 2008 I became the lead pastor of our church and that was a year that I got the first iPhone. And I distinctly remember one morning at about five o'clock waking up to have some quiet time and.

[00:07:03] Sitting in my bathroom on the seat that is there in the bathroom. And I had my iPhone and I looked at my email and in my email inbox was this long scathing.

[00:07:22] Complaint from an older woman in the church and at that point I was very stressed already by the pressures of pastoral work. I was feeling like there's a lot that I was holding together, I felt like I was in over my head in a lot of ways.

[00:07:38] And I just remember sitting there thinking to myself, I cannot do this this way this is going to kill me.

[00:07:45] And so that kind of set me out on a mission of just trying to figure out like, what is it that I can do and what is it that I can't. And so I was like, what is it that I can do?

[00:08:00] There was a book that then came into my life right about that time called margin. My doctor Richard Swanson he's a Christian but an MD and he had just noticed in his practice that so many of his patients they were stressed out.

[00:08:18] They were late to their appointments their lives were just like the gas tank was on empty for so many of his people.

[00:08:24] And so I was we're at a time in human history where progress though it's awesome is creating this collision course with our own limitations we we have physical limitations mental limitations financial limitations and so on and so forth.

[00:08:42] Everything is moving so quickly and the options are like unlimited because of the way we're progressing that we've got to figure out our limits so that we can do well.

[00:08:56] And so I just started that was kind of like an exploratory season in my life where I started really asking the question, but kind of like you said Rob like what is it that I'm supposed to do what is it that I'm supposed to be good at.

[00:09:10] I can't be good at everything. I kind of came to that conclusion like you that I could be pretty crappy at a million things or it could be good at a smaller handful of things and then have to trust you know other people and that's what the body of Christ is.

[00:09:28] So that was kind of it for me, but it's been like millions of times since then. Oh, here's another there's another moment where I'm coming face to face with my limitations just given the design that God is as given to me so that's a little of my background.

[00:09:47] I'm thinking about it as I listen to both of you guys contemplate this question. So there's three things that stand out the first thing is is that all of us are aware you made the joke.

[00:09:59] And then we have the same thing that we have to do with the fact that we're limited. the fact that we're limited, right? And then we have those stand out incidences that happen where we become acutely aware of our inadequacies.

[00:10:28] And then the third thing and you both mentioned it, Rob, I wrote it down when you said it, I'm not wired that way. And understanding how your wired is so key when we come to the issue of limitations, you know? And I think about that incident

[00:10:44] when I think about one of the big incidents that I experienced that just brought this home for me. And it was as I was planting my second church and in that time, that was 2007. And you know, I had just come out of a context

[00:11:04] where, you know, for 15 years, I'd been operating in a much larger church. I mean, we didn't start much larger, but when I left it was much larger, very robust staff and so on. And then I went into this world where I had 75 people,

[00:11:21] and I was stressed to the gills. I was, I just couldn't, and I thought, why is this little church a 75 people kicking my butt so bad? You know, given what I've just come out of and then I realized because at least there,

[00:11:38] I had the opportunity to trust those areas where I'm not wired to somebody who was. And so I quickly just assessed my situation and said, all right, what is it that I need right now to get off my plate? And so that I can operate as you said,

[00:11:58] Robin, that area, because you can't do both. Right? You can't do it all. And so that's when, you know, I made the decision like, hey, the first person I hire here at this church and we were in a position where we could hire

[00:12:10] somebody part time at that time. Not everybody is, and until I just have to acknowledge that, that the first person I need to come alongside me, whether it's hired, whether it's volunteer, for me it was an admin. It was, you know, I operate great at 30,000 feet.

[00:12:25] If I get into the micro, into the minutia, just kill me, you know, I just, that's when I start to be overwhelmed. And that's how I'm wired. So I got that person brought that person in, and man, once she was on board, I could breathe again, you know?

[00:12:41] And really start to best money we ever spent at the church. And she's still here. She's still here. Yeah. You know, I think it's interesting that, I mean, I think you're hitting on something here, Ted, that, I think is going to come up over and over again

[00:12:59] is that idea of having to let go, coming to the point of having to let go. And I remember when I left Oregon in 1996 and came down to Vista to take over for Pastor Brian. And at that particular time, our church had three Sunday morning services.

[00:13:16] We had a Sunday night service and a Wednesday night service and Brian was teaching three different books of the Bible out those three meetings. So he had three different preps, but because Brian just knows the words so well, he was actually able to do that really, really well.

[00:13:38] And he did a good job with those three different studies and those three different gatherings. But for me, I didn't have the handle on the word. I hadn't taught through the whole Bible at that particular time. And so I come in and doing Sunday morning,

[00:13:56] the three services, that wasn't difficult. Wednesday night was okay, but that Sunday night study just kicked my butt all the time. And I just felt like I wasn't doing that well, you know? But for the longest time, I think it was 10 years of her 10 years.

[00:14:16] I like pressed through and I was like, I gotta do this. Brian did this, chucked did this. These different guys, they could do this and I finally came to the point where I just had to be honest with myself and say, you know, I can't do this.

[00:14:35] Brian, I can't do this well. And I could probably do it now because I've taught through the Bible and I have a better handle on it after 27 years, I should, right? But back then, and so what I started to do

[00:14:51] to adjust was I started having some other guys teach on Sunday night, do the Sunday night gathering. And I'd maybe give, you know, three or four different guys a period of like five or six weeks. And while they were teaching theirs,

[00:15:06] I would be preparing for what I was gonna do next. It was the only way that I could survive. But then we came to a place where I just realized, you know, because we have this desire. This is one of our core values

[00:15:20] is that we wanna do everything in excellence, the best that we can. And I came to this place where I just realized that we're not doing Sunday night well. We're not doing it well for the teaching standpoint, we're not doing it well in children's ministry,

[00:15:32] we're not doing it well in our worship. I mean, because it was everything was like a skeleton crew. Yeah. And so we eventually, we let it go. Because it was like, you know, it just wasn't, you know, it was one of those things

[00:15:47] that we realized as a church, we were limited in. Yeah. I think of what Paul said to the Corinthians 2 Corinthians 10, 13. He said we will not boast about things done outside our area of authority. We will boast only about what God has,

[00:16:03] or about what has happened within the boundaries of the work that God has given to us. Right? And so that's, you know, there's a lot of wisdom there. What is God given to us to do? That's really good.

[00:16:20] I think you guys are both highlighting with those two stories in a system, a key person, like you mentioned it and canceling a service a Sunday night service, like you mentioned, or those are like two different pathways to letting go and establishing your boundaries.

[00:16:41] And I'm glad you mentioned that one, Rob, because for the average guy in the average size church, more staffing, especially these days, is the night time, bye. And if it's just, hey, we can't do all of these things well then sometimes that's the answer rather than, I mean,

[00:17:00] praise the Lord if we can bring someone in to do more. Yeah. But if we can't, then we do need to do less and do a better. I think that was great. Well said. Yeah, amen. And I think one of the problems that sometimes we have

[00:17:20] in our movement. And I think the younger guys that are kind of starting out now, they have a much better handle on this than maybe, you know, guys and my generation and Ted's generation is that, you know, I think sometimes we tend to look at the models

[00:17:43] that were ahead of us and that came before us and to think we need to do all of those things that they were doing. You know, and in reality that's not true. And I think that that's one of the most freeing things

[00:17:55] is when a guy can realize, I don't have to do all these things. Right. You know, I just have to do what God is calling me to do. A quick comment on that is that I am a little troubled

[00:18:09] that I am trying to think out of phrase this. There is something that I see creeping in where and this would be, you know, the Gen Z. You know, and I don't want to just paint them into it. But I see it a lot. Oh, let's get them.

[00:18:29] Let's get them right now. We're going to just lose about half of our listeners right now. We love you guys. No, they don't have the corner on this market. But there's a lot of Gen Zers in my church.

[00:18:44] And so one of the things that we have had to teach through, I'll put it that way. There you go. Is that when there is pain in the offering and when there's any sort of, you know, just sort of discomfort in something,

[00:19:00] there's a tendency to say, you know, well, you know, something's wrong and I should, I should not do that. And I think that it's important to be able to point out and maybe we can press into it in a little bit just the idea of, um,

[00:19:14] sometimes things are uncomfortable, awkward or painful and seem to be beyond our limitations and those are things that we like. Hey, yeah, I was watching recently a documentary on Tony Hawk's life, another prosecutor. Yeah. And he spent like decades trying to pull off a 900, you know,

[00:19:37] where he does a 900 degree rotation on a half pipe and then lands it. And I remember sitting there watching that just thinking like, if this guy can just break his body working this hard to pull off a 900, yeah, I hope is a pastor.

[00:19:59] I'm willing to do a little bit of tough work to preach a good sermon, to lead a church while so yeah, well said to Edwap. We're definitely not saying if it ever hurts, then that's a limit so you've got to pull back. Right.

[00:20:17] Yeah, but it is really, really smart when we can recognize what our limitations are. And I just wonder how hard or humbling has it been for you guys to admit your limitations to your staff or even the church as a whole, you know.

[00:20:35] And how have you, how have you tackled that or approached that? Or even do ourselves. Yeah, have to do ourselves exactly. Any thoughts? Yeah, I think that one to the self is like Ted said that's been the hardest one from, you know, personally.

[00:20:55] I tend to be pretty, you know, clear eyed about it with the church. I mean, for instance, intro to Cal Re class that we offer new cameras and that's one of the things I talk about is, hey, I'm limited.

[00:21:09] There's only so much that I can do, but we have a great last door to. There's other people. We want you to be in groups. I try to set a good expectation for them.

[00:21:18] I mean, one of the first things that we told the church when we, when Christina when I became the lead pastor, our kids were really little. And you know, I didn't want her to deal with the pressures of taking on like a full women's

[00:21:33] ministry and all that at that stage of her life and ministry. So we just clearly talked to them about that. That's never been like the harder part for me. For me, the harder part is comparison because I do feel very limited about a lot of things.

[00:21:50] But you know, I get overloaded by too much. I'm not financially like risky guy. I'm not comfortable there. I have a little bit of margin. Yeah. Too much information freaks me out and that's the pastors that don't seem to have those issues.

[00:22:09] You know, they're taking these huge steps of faith. Their schedules are like maxed out. They've got all these responsibilities. And they seem like they're just like cool as a cucumber as their crews and through all those responsibilities.

[00:22:25] And that's when it gets hard for me, because I feel like, oh man, I got to do more. I mean, Rob, you talked about like our heritage in Calpuch Apple and like the multiple service is each week.

[00:22:38] That's never been like the thing that I get stuck on the thing for me is we tell these stories of like, and then I went to Europe and I did this.

[00:22:47] And then I went to Africa and like for me, like a two week trip just stresses me out. Yeah, it's like two weeks before the two weeks of the two weeks after. I just feel like I'm dealing with everything. Right.

[00:23:00] And so I have to that's been the hardest one is talking to myself about like the healthy balance of stretching yourself versus being okay and comfortable in your own skin. That's the man that God has made me to be.

[00:23:14] He gave me to this church for a reason he didn't give those other guys to this church and just being cool with that. I think when we remember that everyone is limited that it makes it a lot easier to admit that we're limited. Yeah.

[00:23:28] And you know, we can't expect others and sometimes this is a good discipline when somebody is limited in area that we're not in the can we can get frustrated and then realizing, oh no they're limited in that area. So you know, understanding our own limitations is super important.

[00:23:47] I hear both of you talking about an incredible level of introspection which I admire because, you know, for years I wasn't as introspective as I would like to be.

[00:23:59] And I hear guys like you talk about having a real clear grasp of who you are and how God's wired you. I think that's so wise and so important to spend time doing that.

[00:24:09] And so then when you do that and then as you were talking made about being candid with your staff to actually have that conversation and being willing to mention, you know, to just to be a fourth right with your limitations and and all.

[00:24:28] And so that's a big part of it.

[00:24:31] Yeah, I know for me our staff and I think I've struggled a little bit with this of the expectations, you know that there's expectations that, you know, our staff has had of me that I just had to be honest with them and say, I can't do that.

[00:24:49] You know, our media team they'd love for me to be three weeks ahead on all of my messages and just like guys I'm sorry I can't do that.

[00:24:59] I'm just not wired that way but, but even I was I was talking to our staff today about just the fact that you know, I study from home on Monday mornings on Wednesday mornings and on Thursday mornings.

[00:25:13] And and I told them I said one of the reasons why I do that is because if I was here the way I'm wired is I'm just drawn to everything that's going on and so I just would be in everybody's soup and all of you would hate me.

[00:25:28] So it's better for me to just not be here, you know, from my sake but also for your your sex, you know and but even sometimes you know with different guys who just would want more time and and you know.

[00:25:48] I tell my staff this, I tell my missionaries this and this is a limitation but I just say I'll say this to him I'll say you know guys I am a great responder.

[00:26:02] But I'm not the best initiator and it's not that I don't care but you know so many things going on that I can come in to the office with the intent that I'm going to meet with you know these three people today and I'm going to send five emails to these missionaries.

[00:26:19] And you know by the end of the day I've done one of those things because all the stuff that's happened so I tell him I say look if if you reach out if you have something you want to talk about you know I'm a great responder I'll totally make the time but I might not be the best initiator and I'm just being real with them.

[00:26:37] I think that's great but just from a personal observation I think you're a wonderful engineer. So I think you saw yourself a little short there. Well I have to see with you or else we'd never have a podcast. I mean see how managing your expectations run.

[00:26:55] Oh my gosh. Well. Do you guys think that because I was thinking about this question you know admitting your limitations how hard has that been.

[00:27:09] Do you guys think there's something to it makes it a little bit easier to do so by excelling at what you are doing you know in other words the people in your life they see the commitments that you make.

[00:27:24] And if you really are taking those seriously you're being really faithful with what you have said I feel that God has called me that these you know five things. Right.

[00:27:35] When you do really well with them doesn't that buy you a little bit of capital with people in those other areas that you can't get to or that you don't do. Yeah. Yeah. I would totally. Yeah that's a good observation and leaning into those.

[00:27:51] And those things change too. I mean they they don't all change but certain things change.

[00:27:56] I mean I think about right now when we in regards to limitations I'm I'm in my ninth week of recovery after triple bypass right now and so I've done practically nothing for the last nine weeks you know. And and so you know that's.

[00:28:15] In mitting your limitation talk about I mean when when we contemplate this question for me. I mean I almost need counseling because I think about the things that I've been limited in doing it the last nine weeks and striving me absolutely crazy.

[00:28:30] You know I can't you can't live more than five pounds while I can live more than five pounds yes but you're not supposed to don't live more than five pounds.

[00:28:37] I mean it's a silly example but it absolutely drives me crazy that here's the limitation that that frustrates me you know and and so yeah leaning into those things that that you actually can do.

[00:28:51] And doing them well I think that helps I think it helps the people around you who might get frustrated. Yeah. How you're limited in area where they're not. I think it definitely helps. Like in dealing with an inner acting with our with the staff you know for sure.

[00:29:11] I'm not so much sure. With some of the people in the body if in the you know in the church if it if it buys. You know anything with them just because some people just think like like when we get up and and you know get

[00:29:30] give our sermon that you know they think it took us like an hour to put that together.

[00:29:35] So you'll just don't have that don't have the rest they won't have any concept of you know the time that we put into you know that and so I know for me I've had to really learn to set boundaries and the right kind of boundaries like for instance.

[00:29:53] One of the boundaries I've set up in my life is I don't do any morning meetings with people you know you say have guys that would.

[00:30:01] You know that they would be like you know hey I work and I can't come in I can't do lunch but I could meet you at six o'clock in the morning you know are you're available

[00:30:09] It's just a clock in the morning and I used to do that you know and I didn't up happen you know three or four meetings you know every morning at six o'clock in the morning with different guys and well.

[00:30:19] You know it it affected my own devotional life because you know usually from six to seven every day that's my devotional time and then I usually start my day at seven a.m.

[00:30:30] And you know I'm doing my best time of the days from like six to one and so that's the time that I want to study and I want to focus and so I had to to make a boundary and just say you know I'm limited in that way.

[00:30:46] I'm better in the morning so I would just tell people hey I have an appointment already tomorrow morning at six a.m.

[00:30:53] And I wouldn't tell them it was with Jesus but I would be like I have an appointment and but what I will do is I'll meet with guys after work you know I'll meet a guy at five or five thirty or six o'clock and and that's a sacrifice that you know my wife is okay with me making.

[00:31:11] And that this season in our life our kids are all grown and so I'll do that you know I'm having me with those meetings today right and but I had to set that boundary of you know that keeping that morning time.

[00:31:26] Sacred and I like the way you phrased it earlier because you said I'm limited yeah and and I can't remember who's you are but somebody had made the comment to me they don't tell people their busy they tell them they're limited and I've passed that advice on to other people because I thought wow that's fantastic because you know I am busy.

[00:31:45] I don't have time for you but no I'm limited I can only give my time you know just to so many people and so many things and I'm limited yeah. Well let's talk about a good Nate.

[00:31:59] It's just going to say that your story reminds me of a story that Pastor Drew Zachary tells all the time about a time early on in his ministry life when he needed to make an appointment with his doctor.

[00:32:12] And he called the office and you know he's like I can't come in before five I need to come in after hours and the you know whoever was there on the phone just kept saying no he works nine to five.

[00:32:24] He's got any any just discovered like oh people do this they they're jobs to go meet with the the doctor they won't do that for me for the best.

[00:32:37] I'm sorry things about God you know so yeah I've in the same way you know that it was a W.A. Well who's the pastor first Baptist Dallas for like 50 years back in the day.

[00:32:52] His whole standard rule was mornings, belonged to God afternoons belong to the church and evenings belong to my family.

[00:33:04] It was just kind of his general guideline for the way that he would do quite a time certain prep staff you know leadership counseling and then you know family time in the evening.

[00:33:15] I think that's a great analogy or great outline mornings to God afternoons to the church evenings to family that's awesome.

[00:33:23] Well hey let's talk about how pivotal coming to this conclusion has been you know for each of us in the following areas as far as like your church your own personal health. Your family life what would have been the benefits for you guys in those three areas.

[00:33:40] By coming to this place of recognizing I have limitations I can't do everything what what what's been the benefit for you guys.

[00:33:48] I'll talk about my church and ironically I set this in place prior to the episode that we did with Wayne Cordero and Wesley Town on burnout yeah which you know.

[00:34:05] It was in the midst of that episode and reading Wayne's book in preparation for that episode that I realized that I was about 25 years overdue for a sabbatical right and that I was burning out.

[00:34:21] And so I had set this in motion beforehand and it was really helpful because I had ex I was limited and I had exceeded my limitations for a long time.

[00:34:31] And so I was paying the price my church was paying the price which is very very common yeah for pastors.

[00:34:38] Yeah it was it was you know and you know I I still the story that for me I had three strikes against me because number one I'm a boomer so we lived to work.

[00:34:50] Number two I came from the fire department so we were trained where the guys that run in when everybody else is running out and then number three. I was raising Calvary Chapel which says serve and serve some more and when you're tired serve some more.

[00:35:03] And so that those three things just drove me drove me drove me but I had set up department structure so coming to the conclusion. That I was limited and that I had to embrace my limitations allowed me to set up a department structure.

[00:35:21] And again, I'm coming from the context of a larger church where we have several staff paid staff lots of full time and part time staff. But I could have done this with a volunteer structure as well.

[00:35:35] And so you know those view listening if you have a small church or a larger church. You can you can still do these things and so for me it was recognizing. I need to put people in charge of departments and I need to actually empower them.

[00:35:51] You know give them the authority to run the department and something you said earlier Rob about being able to establish. Hey look this is my expectation this is kind of the goal the vision that God's given to me.

[00:36:03] And so I'm entrusting you with let's say the men's department and I need you to really strive to hit this bull's eye. But you know I may be able to put you know these parameters on it.

[00:36:17] And Larry Osborn describes that you just you've you define what the North Star is and then you you like a bowling alley you set the limits of the lane that they can run in.

[00:36:29] But then you empower them and you unleash them to run in that lane you know however they want to do it.

[00:36:36] And so I did this with all of my departments and that really helped set the church up for success because I was putting people in positions of authority.

[00:36:47] That were that were called that area and that we're gifted in equipped in areas that I stink at you know I have no business getting involved in you know. It's good but about you Nate. I love that.

[00:37:01] Yeah, you know I think with the church it's cultivated a less of a dependency upon me among the people you know in the body.

[00:37:13] I'm sure the church is not as in one sense numerically large as it could be if I have really taken that approach like I'm going to try to just get my hands around everything and everyone.

[00:37:27] At least initially but I think slowly over time it's created a healthier culture that has reproduced well.

[00:37:35] I mean I don't I don't even really do email you know I kind of decided early on that I could either be a really good emailer or I could be a good sermon prepare her.

[00:37:48] I just I felt like I just couldn't do both and so that what that does is it really forces the the church to kind of train itself like Nate isn't the be all in all for every Bible question, every observation, every idea, every ministry launch like it's a dead end.

[00:38:12] So just try to go ahead and over and over again because and so it pushes them to other people who are like Ted said in departmental leads or. Responsible in the church so I think itself the church in that way I think in my family life.

[00:38:31] I think my kids I mean pastors kids always have you know nits to pick here and there you know it's never going to be a perfect experience but I think that they have.

[00:38:44] I think they see me as a man who works hard and really throws himself into the calling that God's put on his life.

[00:39:06] I don't think they feel a jealousy over the church so I think that's really helped as my kids age out and start becoming you know young adults.

[00:39:18] I think it's paved the way for like a great relationship in the future and then you know just personally it's it's given me a longevity.

[00:39:27] You know and I've stayed sane for the last 15 years and hopefully many more years because of just kind of a pacing myself you know I remember when I used to run marathons man was like.

[00:39:40] You'd see these people that just got like bro you're not trained up for this I can tell but you're coming out of that starting gate.

[00:39:49] I think you're going to keep up with the big dogs out at the front and you'd see those people I'm like my old five you know just puking on the side of the road.

[00:40:00] Because you got a pace yourself you know you gotta know this is this is the pace I can do right and I'll tell you that's how you make it with endurance so I think that's how it's impacted me.

[00:40:10] I call it developing healthy rhythms is that that yes you know and same thing for me this with the church it's definitely created a culture at our church where everybody's not going to you know depend upon me or look to me you know there are much more prone to look to others and I would say this though even.

[00:40:35] When I was at the church in Oregon and for a while didn't even have a staff and when I left the staff was only two.

[00:40:43] We still had fostered you know that type of mentality with our elders and leaders and you know guys that were doing home groups that you know there were other guys here that this is not a you know it's not a one man show and I think that's so important.

[00:41:03] And I know for me by setting these limitations and knowing what they are I think that I'm doing the things that I know I'm called to do really really well and probably.

[00:41:15] And I'm probably doing more than I ever have done but you know I'm doing the things that I know God is I'm doing the things that I would say are in my wheelhouse you know if I for using that baseball analogy and.

[00:41:30] And with my own personal health I'm no longer exhausted all the time yeah you know where I found myself just exhausted all the time you know my devotional life is strong. I have a regular exercise routine you know that I'm committed to and doing and actually enjoying.

[00:41:50] And as far as my family goes you know having weekly date nights with my wife and you know that sort of thing is it's just it's just created a healthiness yeah by learning to set. You know those type of boundaries it's just been it's been crucial.

[00:42:07] Well I think too about when you you mentioned being exhausted and that will make that makes me think about. And when I'm exhausted people aren't getting the best of me and that includes the Lord is not getting the best of me.

[00:42:20] And and so if I'm doing all the stuff that he hasn't called me to this is information and we all know we hear this all the time you're doing what God hasn't called you to do.

[00:42:30] You're going to be depleting the resources for what he has called you to do so that's that's important. So let's talk about the idea of limitations in regards to depending on the Holy Spirit.

[00:42:46] What's the balance in that you know and and doesn't the Lord put us in situations where we find ourselves in over our heads. So you know we learn to rely upon the efficiency of his grace right.

[00:43:00] And so let's talk about that balance of the the Holy Spirit and depending on the Holy Spirit and the situations that he might put us in as it pertains to limitations. Yeah what do you thought so that night.

[00:43:13] But yeah it's a great question because everything we're doing in ministry in one sense is totally beyond our limitations right I mean. I can't speak to someone's heart in my own strength.

[00:43:28] I have to have the spirit of God to do I can't explain or make clear the scripture in my own strength.

[00:43:35] I have to have the spirit to do that so in a sense it's kind of like what we're saying is we're trying to discover what our limitations are.

[00:43:44] But even once we define what we should be doing those things that we should be doing it's not like oh I got this you know we need the Lord's grace to do the things that are within the scope that he's called us to.

[00:43:59] You know when Paul said I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me there's first of all a huge context.

[00:44:06] So that you know he's saying like I can be content in any situation I think I can do that if Christ strengthens me I can do these things he's not saying.

[00:44:18] I could play basketball like Michael Jordan through Christ strengthens me like he didn't believe that kind of thing. But it's a great point that your question brings up because we're called beyond at times are our natural abilities or spiritual giftings.

[00:44:41] I know for me part of my daily prayer life there's two verses that I pray on this subject each day one is the classic verse from second Corinthians 12 where Paul said that his.

[00:44:58] That God strength Christ strength was proved in his weakness and I just asked the Lord Lord take my weakness today take my limitations today you know and help me I pray that you prove yourself strong like there's just so many things I'm not good at.

[00:45:14] That I need to do today and so prove your strength and then the second verse that kind of goes with this comes from Job chapter three it's kind of a little forgotten.

[00:45:25] Section a scripture but Joe it's Job talking and Job talks about how he says when I was at rest when I was at peace when I was at ease all of this Bethelmy and if there's any like clue as to any flaw.

[00:45:43] In Job's life I mean such a righteous guy but if there was any flaw it was that he really did like that he's he liked that piece and I you know I would never like beat Joe over the head with that I mean it's like a corpus he did compared to what you're going through.

[00:46:04] But I resonate with that and I see how in my own nature I can idolize.

[00:46:11] You know margin or rest or peace and so I've just each day I'm asking God like God this can't be an idol in my life I want to I want to be responsible I want to live out the Sabbath rhythms that you've embedded into creation itself but.

[00:46:30] I also you know that's not my God you're my God and so if you ask me to step out onto the waters. I'll do it you know and I think that's been helpful to me to keep me moving forward even when I don't want to.

[00:46:49] Yeah that's excellent and you know you're hitting on something I think is true of all of us but I've seen this a lot of the even more so in the younger generation as I think all of us we.

[00:46:59] I think all of us we crave ease and we crave comfort and we crave routine you know we like having all our ducks in a row and our.

[00:47:09] And so but you know ministry isn't like that I mean ministry can be different every single week because of you know the different things that are going on and so.

[00:47:19] These are just being thrown at us or those things that just come up that definitely we know like okay this is going to you know this is going to take me beyond my capacity beyond my.

[00:47:30] And so the limitations I think you know second Corinthians twelve is is key you know that we realize and we can rest in and know that.

[00:47:38] The Lord is going to be strong in the midst of our weakness and his grace is sufficient but when it comes to the situations where.

[00:47:49] And so I'm pressing to take on something that I'm going to step into something I'm going to step into a role I'm going to step into you know something that I just am feeling like you know is man it I don't know this is you know beyond my capacity or my beyond my where I have a little bit more of a choice there's.

[00:48:08] And things we do we know of a choice was just like we're going to step into that but where we have a choice to me a great.

[00:48:16] And a person to look to an example to look to is is an EMI and what is an EMI I do you know he has his job and he comes to this place where he hears about Jerusalem and what happens he gets a burden.

[00:48:31] And I found in my life that that's usually when God is looking to stretch me in my capacity. Have me step beyond my limitations as it starts with a burden and I've come to learn this that if a burden doesn't go away.

[00:48:47] It usually is from the Lord I'm trying to push it away I'm trying to say no but it just keeps coming back and you know with me and Maya he has this burden that just is weighing on as hard as he's praying and fasting.

[00:49:00] And finally it shows up in his countenance where the king notices that he's sad you know because the weight of this burden and so two things I see in the EMI that I've seen in my own life is that when God is wanting me to take that step and depend upon the Holy Spirit and and God's grace it usually starts with a burden.

[00:49:25] So I hear that won't go away and then the second thing we see in EMI is not only does he get a burden but he gets a plan.

[00:49:32] And so when the king finally asks him he's like you know this is what I need and this is what I want to do and and so usually in my heart that's what I found is that it starts with this burden.

[00:49:45] And then as I'm weighing you know maybe I'm trying to push away now I can't do that and it keeps coming back and it keeps coming back but then it it segues into a plan that then I need to step out into so I love the picture of me and Maya.

[00:50:00] Yeah and some people in that regard they they will talk themselves out of that thing that God's calling them to do I'm all the reasons that I can't do it and so they're hearing the voice of the enemy that's speaking to them telling they can't do those things or they're hearing their own voice.

[00:50:18] I'm telling them they can't do those things and so they can back off you know just stepping out and doing those things that God's called them to do.

[00:50:28] And as well Rob you had talked about how we crave oftentimes ease or comfort and or routine and I would agree with that and I think the opposite into that is also true where sometimes people are craving greatness or they're craving position or power or prominence.

[00:50:48] And they get away from being faithful and little you know they want they want the platform they want the you know that I want to do that thing and they they just lose sight of.

[00:51:00] And you know the the principle of as your faithful and little God will make you faith very much and so I think sometimes people are limited from being faithful and much.

[00:51:12] Because they haven't been faithful and little and so maybe come up against that lid of you know gosh my limitations are why why can't I be.

[00:51:23] Speaking why don't I get the opportunities to do this why don't I why am I hitting all these limitations right sometimes it's a matter of humbling yourselves and being faithful and little such a good word.

[00:51:35] Thank you for listening today our goal with this podcast is to help you lead well through every season and challenge of ministry.

[00:51:43] If you have questions for Robert Ted about this podcast or would like to request information regarding another topic you can reach us at leadership collective podcast at gmail.com. We'll see you next time on the Leadership Collective.