In this episode of the "Lead to Serve" podcast, Pastor Ed Taylor chats with Pastor Bob about leadership, servanthood, and staying fruitful in ministry at any stage of life. Pastor Bob shares his journey from pastoring in Exeter, England, to his current role with Mission Assist Ministry. They discuss the importance of faithfulness, the value of older leaders, and the need for rest and rhythms in ministry. Pastor Bob emphasizes that God has a purpose for everyone, regardless of age, and encourages listeners to live each day with intention and purpose, fostering a multigenerational approach to ministry.
Key Words:
Leadership, servanthood, ministry, aging, Pastor Ed Taylor, Pastor Bob Claycamp, Calvary Church Colorado, Calvary Chapel, Mission Assist Ministry, fruitful ministry, discipleship, older leaders, younger generations, church community, multigenerational ministry, faithfulness, God's purpose, spiritual journey, personal growth, encouragement, cultural changes, worship styles, balance in ministry, rest, engagement, community support, podcast feedback, impactful living, Christian perspective, obedience to God, relationship with God, purpose across all ages, church roles, mentoring, senior pastor, Downey California, Exeter England, North Phoenix, faith and purpose, seed planting, transitions in ministry, joy in serving, urgency of purpose.
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Calvary Church presents lead to Serve, a leadership podcast with
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Ed Taylor. Hey, welcome to the Lead to
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Serve podcast with Pastor Ed Taylor.
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My name is Ed and I'm your host for this podcast.
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We're in season #7 it's a leadership podcast.
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It's a servanthood podcast. It comes from a Christian
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perspective, but we are open to input of what your perspective
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might be but I believe the best insight on leadership and
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servant it comes from the greatest leader and servant that
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has ever lived God in human flesh, Jesus Christ.
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And our goal is to help you grow in your servant leadership so
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you glorify God in studio is Pastor Bob Klaykamp.
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Great, good to be here. Welcome, Bob.
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He is the leader of the mission assist ministries.
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He overseas it, it is a ministry that he is responsible for.
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He goes around helping with Jeannie and others, helping
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churches around the world. And since he's been back just
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real quickly, since he's been back from the mission field in
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Exeter, England, which how many years has it been?
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Almost 7 seven years the cumulative ministry of Pastor
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Bob because he hasn't pastored a church he did for many years
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pastor a Calvary Chapel in north Phoenix, but he's not overseeing
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a church like the lead or senior pastor.
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But in the last seven years, he has been this floating pastor
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where he's actually it's. Been the last 15 years. 15 well
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Exeter. Well, Exeter I was.
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You were a senior pastor. Pastoring, yes, but I was also
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going out and helping out other guys in the UK.
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At a dual relationship, but do you think that you're so this
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would be a good insight. Do you think that you were also
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see you were doing both equally like senior pastor, you had the
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weight of a local church? Because I know we talked about
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that, no. So how?
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I wasn't doing both equally. I had to focus on that local
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church. It was a small church, maybe 50
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people. Half of them were university
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students, yes, and so, but I also made myself available to
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the pastors and missionaries in the UK and Europe and that was
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so challenging. That's what my thought is,
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because I, I know that that's the priority, that you would be
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the senior pastor, lead pastor, but now for the last seven years
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you don't have that. So it's opened up a tremendous
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amount of opportunity for you where you have helped church
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transition. I mean, when you send me a list
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of all the things you do and you keep that running list, I'm
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like, I don't think he has a big enough hard drive to keep track
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of all the things that the Lord has you involved in.
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And real quick before we get into this, I really feel like
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this is from the Lord, like you are older.
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I'm getting older. I'm I'm behind you a generation.
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You're getting older. I'm getting older.
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But you were given a word, you were given an encouragement from
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the Lord about the latter years of your life.
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Can you share that word right now?
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Like how it was given quickly and and maybe an example of how
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you see it being fulfilled. Well, I think it came out of me
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reading Alan Redpath's book on Joshua, devotional commentary on
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the book of Joshua That's Victorious Christian Service or
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leader or something, I can't remember exactly.
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But in that book I was reading about Caleb and I think I was
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around 50 years old or so. I was pastoring in North
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Phoenix. And just the, the whole sense of
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yeah, I've been involved in ministry for some time now for
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20 years or 30 years. But what's what's it like to
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finish Well? And do I just rely upon what
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I've always done? Or do I want to hear fresh words
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from the Lord for new vision, new calling?
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Because I need to do what He wants me to do and not what's
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easiest, not what's convenient, not what's comfortable.
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I need to hear from Him and then apply the same faith and finish
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well. And so the whole phrase, I want
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my latter years to be more fruitful than my former years,
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no matter what I've done in the past.
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Fruitful means that you plant things first before there's
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fruit. And so there's work, there's
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planting, there are steps of faith.
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And so whatever that looks like and, and the Lord just impressed
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upon me, that's, that's fine, but don't block me.
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And because at the time I had no idea I'd be doing this, no idea,
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not even close. But it all started unfolding,
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especially when it came to turning the church over in 2010
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and then looking at how the Lord had been using me during the
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process and touching the lives of other pastor and and building
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a, a bridge of relationship to be able to speak into their
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lives. That was a common theme both of
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my wife and myself. And so that's what led us into
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what we're doing now since 2010 really.
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And then that supposed to do over in in Exeter where you
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think, oh, I've got this down, I'll just go now.
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I know I'll correct all my mistakes wrong.
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You have to. The Lord took me there to break
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me and to teach me some things of my own prejudices, my own
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issues of thinking more highly of myself than I ought, thinking
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that I've got, I've got the right perspective, the people
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just follow my ideas. Everything would work out like
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they did back in the States. And the whole issue of
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ministering in a different culture that you've got to stop
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and just humble yourself and say I don't know anything just
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because I have years means nothing.
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I've got to start fresh, and so my latter years being more
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fruitful than my former years is something that the Lord has to
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produce. But I've got to be willing to
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plant seed. I've got to be willing to
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continue steps of faith as long as my body will allow me to.
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You are one of the hardest workers I have met.
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Like you have a lot of energy, you and Jeannie, it's very
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encouraging. You've been a blessing here.
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I think we're going to keep this topic for this.
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We're going to take the topic we had, we're going to move it to
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the next episode because I, I believe we have a conversation
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going here. It's really good.
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And what I'm hearing from you is the importance of being faithful
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today. Right.
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As I, as I step into this, I'm about the same age you were when
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you were given this word, a little bit older than that.
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But I, I, I don't know when it hit me.
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It could have been at when my son passed away where it just
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all time started hitting me and everything stopped and I had to
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reassess. But I came to this conclusion
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and I know I didn't make it up and I'm not even sure where I
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got it, but I use it all the time now.
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And that is I have more years behind me than I have ahead of
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me. Reflecting upon my age where So
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with this conversation starts with age, but it doesn't have to
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be exclusively be age. You could say I have more years
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behind me than ahead of me in this particular responsibility,
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in this particular ministry, in this particular career in
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college. You know, you might be heading
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up graduating high school and all your school years are behind
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you and now you have the whole world ahead of you and what God
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is going to do in your life. But it's important.
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There's a couple of concepts that I hear you say that's super
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important. First of all, for you listening
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in right now as I am hearing Bob and thinking about Bob and how
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he ended up here, there is a future for you.
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Wherever station you're in right now, you have a future.
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It is a God ordained future. Even if you can't see it, even
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if you don't know, like you mentioned it earlier, like if if
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we were taking notes, we put this all together, but this is
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how it is. We have a conversation and it
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keeps going. But as I was listening to you,
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you, you didn't know when you were reading that book what your
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future would be, right? You didn't know.
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You didn't. You didn't know Exeter.
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You didn't know Colorado. You didn't know it.
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You know all the years you served with Poeman.
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You didn't know this new season that you're now launching into
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brand new season. Are you OK with mentioning your
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age? Yeah, OK.
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Yeah, I'm, I'm going to be 74 in a couple weeks.
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So you're 74 years old and you just launched into a nether
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massive step of faith when it comes to mission assist
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ministries and a new direction. A new, not necessarily a new
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direction as much as it is, I would say.
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And you could. New clarity.
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A new addition you've added now the you, you were doing this
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like kind of locally, although your heart's always been for the
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world. But through mission assist, now
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you're, you're taking this new season of serving to the world.
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Yeah. And you're being able to say,
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OK, my, my, I mean, I know you're going to say yes to this,
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but you would see there is a fulfillment happening right now
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that your latter years are more fruitful than your earlier
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years. Are you seeing that?
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Yes, yes, I am. And as long as the Lord gives us
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the stamina and the health and our bodies are able to to
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endure, I mean, it will be there are rough times, but there's,
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you know, I guess it's just the adventure of it because you're
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walking into things that you, you watch the divine
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appointments unfold and you go, I could never have set this up.
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And so you just walk through it and you see what happens when I
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mean, it's, it's, it offsets the other, you know, when all of a
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sudden there's a train strike and you're stuck or you got on
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the train and it's the wrong day and you've got all these tickets
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and, you know, and then you watch how the whole thing works
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out. It's, it becomes, you know,
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interesting. But part of the new vision is to
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invite especially American pastors and their wives to come
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with us over to the UK. If those American pastors and
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wives want to be involved with a particular work over in the UK,
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especially the UK because of our history there.
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Just to have them see the boots on the ground, what it looks
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like, what they lived through. And if you if you want to help
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them, if you want to come alongside and support them,
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First of all, understand what they live in.
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And then that helps you develop. How can we help them in a way
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that's not going to crush them or make demands that they can't
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fulfill, But it it resonates and you have to be there for that.
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Let's come back to the that's come back to the reality of
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where you are 70, almost 74. I, I get this, this word in my
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mind as you're talking to you guys listening in right now that
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you're not too old just like that.
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Maybe you need to hear that you're not too old.
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So you could be turning 30 and going into a new phase and you
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think, oh, or 40 or 50 and and you seeing young people being
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used and you think, well, I'm just too old now.
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Well, wait a minute Caleb, as you go back to what you said.
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Caleb wanted what was promised to him.
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He was 85. And he's give me my mountain.
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Yeah, I want with my inheritance.
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Nobody else wants it. But he wasn't saying I want my
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mountain because I want to get it before the young people do.
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Or like, like we, we, we, we, we need to embrace our age,
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whatever that might be, but also take along the younger people
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with us. They're not a threat to us.
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Young people are not a threat to our lives at all.
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And, and I'm hearing you and I'm like, you're just going along
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God, you're following the Lord. You're you're serving, loving,
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caring, doing what God's called you to do your position and
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posture is not toward a person or toward an age your position
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imposter is toward obeying God right doing what he's called you
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to do and being faithful today, planting seeds, working hard
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reaping in the latter days does not mean and and you like like I
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want you to speak to that. It doesn't mean you're too old
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like OK Bob, you're 74. There's no place for you.
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Let me let me speak to that real quick and then you because, but
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then you can follow up with your thoughts because we I was
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praying here is a leader years ago, I was praying God send us
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an older man that can speak to us from the wisdom and authority
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of his age. And I mean really the beginning
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of my of my prayer was we need a grandfatherly figure on our
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staff. We need a team member that can
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walk in the room with the authority of age and experience
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besides everything that you bring, but just when you're in
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the room because of respect, we're going to honor and respect
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you. That's what the Bible says, but
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also we're that means you're, it's going to open up and you're
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a man of wisdom and experience and, and you are speaking forth
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the word of God to us. And even in my own life, I was
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asking God for Someone Like You, and then you got a heart attack.
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And nice, we're in the UK. The health crisis that rearrange
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your whole life that started moving this direction and you,
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you've been added here now for the last seven years in a
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variety of different ways. Just a tremendous addition.
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But when I think ministry, I do take into account age.
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It's not like we, we overlook it because if you're younger, you
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probably live more immature. We want to mature like it's not
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like we don't see age. It wouldn't be fair to say that
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we do. Of course, we see age and
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experience and we see giftings and such.
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However, whenever we talk age, Bob, it almost seems like people
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automatically, well, you know, this church is just for the
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young people. They're singing young people
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music and young, young, young, young, young.
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Yeah, but you're living proof. You're only one small example of
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the living proof that God wants to use you in every season.
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Yes, every season, Yeah. And I, I remember doing a Bible
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study here actually, and I was mentioning my age and I started
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in my mind kind of like complaining.
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And the next day on a walk around the neighborhood, the
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Lord was speaking to me and says you need to stop talking about
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your age and how difficult it is.
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It is none of your business. It's my business.
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How old I have you here. If I want you here till you're
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125, that's my business. I'm going, please no, he goes.
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No, no, it's but you have to just stop looking at yourself as
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the world sees you. You have to start looking at
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yourself as I see you. And there's this siren song in
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the world that once you hit 65, you have a right to do nothing
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but play golf and, and take it easy and spend all the money
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that you saved up. And I mean, God has different
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callings and different plans for everybody, each individually.
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But for me, retirement is not something that's to be my goal.
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Heaven is my goal. And, and Jesus is very, very
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clear about laying up treasure in heaven as long as you can.
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And so God has been gracious. He has helped us.
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I have to trust him for my future, our future.
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But at the end of the day, as long as my body is allowing me
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to function, then I'm going to just take these steps and and
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see what happens. I'm, it's not reckless.
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I'm not trying to be reckless or impetuous or knee jerk and all,
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but, but looking at the opportunities that are before
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me, I want to, I want to use them carefully, prayerfully, and
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then just do it. Just just take a step of faith
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and see how it goes. You're a great example too, Bob,
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of the significance of an older man pouring into younger men,
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that that's the place that we really need to be when we think
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of young people. We need to think discipleship.
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Yeah, salvation, discipleship, I, I just think these things
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need to be said out loud. I don't know how many it will
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affect, but if you're older today than God's word to you is
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you're not too old. If you're younger today than the
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word is, you're needed. And they're both goes big, big.
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It goes both ways. If you're young today, you're
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not too young. The Bible says don't let anyone
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despise your youth. Or if you're older, you're
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needed today. The whole body of Christ is
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needed for the sake of the ministry.
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But listening to Bob where this conversation just took a turn
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off from the original topic that we had where his this was a word
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that God gave him, but it's a general word for all of us there
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that that God has fruit for your life all the way to the end,
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right? There is something God has for
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you all the way to the end and you cannot allow the changes in
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the church because you've seen quite a few.
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I mean you, you've seen in your generations, you coming from the
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Jesus Revolution days of of the hippies and you were a hippie
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all the way through now into the 21st century.
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We can't allow the changes in culture, the changes in time,
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the changes in people, the change in our own church prevent
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us from doing what God has called us to do that we want
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that like we want young. Like I think of music.
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You're a musician. Yeah, I think of music.
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The music today we're singing today is not the music we're
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singing 30 years ago. But why do we associate that
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already with being bad? Because.
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And we're. I want to stay on the topic of
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age where? Well, when you 30 years ago and
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I, this hit me one day in a Bible study.
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So I just said it out loud. But you know, Bob, if and this
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isn't you, but we're in the room together.
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If you don't like the music today, then just stop for a
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second and remember you had your day.
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There was a season in your life where you are actually the
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author of music. You were this, this that was
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your and it was for you. God had a season and an episode
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for you. Now there's a new generation and
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this is their music that they're writing from their hearts to
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worship God. So instead of either or, it's
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both. We get it all.
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We get the hymns. I wouldn't.
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You and you and I both weren't alive for the hymns, but they
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get to come along. And then our choruses, which I
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was raised, I was raised on a lot of choruses, and we bring
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them along. And now some of the music that's
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being done today is just another example where we need it all
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music wise, but also people wise.
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We need and want you all in the place of ministry.
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We want you to be fruitful in your 70s as much as the young
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man that's in high school that I was talking to.
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I want him to be fruitful. Yeah.
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And the danger is you start using your own experience base
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as the standard by which God blesses things, right?
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And whether it's music or whether it's what the church
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looks like on the outside or the inside or how people dress, I
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mean it all. You're, you're comfortable in
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those early days when you first became a Christian and, and God
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spoke to you so much and that was the environment and you like
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those songs and, and it just was that made you cry and you, and
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you were just releasing your heart.
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And nowadays I've heard this so much.
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Nowadays it's like, Oh, there's too many words and, and it's
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like, it's like you've got spiritual Constipation or
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something. You're all, you're all messed
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up. I mean, come on, you know, you
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just you, you're not understanding how the Holy
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Spirit is using people and you're, and you're all backed up
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with your ideas on what's spiritual and what God smiles at
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and what he frowns at. And you've elevated just like
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the Pharisees. You've elevated your personal
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preferences to the level of Scripture, and you've missed it.
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That's another topic, another episode, but I want to let
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everyone know this is what happens whenever you talk at
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length with Bob. This is what happens all the
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time here. We've asked Bob to do this and I
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don't know if he will, but we've asked him to and I'm asking him
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again. He needs to write the book of
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his Bob isms because you just heard a brand new Bob ISM when
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he used the phrase spiritual Constipation.
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That's a Bob ISM and it it, but he what he was describing was
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they are all backed up. They're they're stuck there.
00:22:08
That, that, that attitude that you describe, it kills churches.
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It does. It destroys, it takes away life.
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Yes, yeah. And you come in and you come in
00:22:21
with a critical spirit, and you leave with a critical spirit,
00:22:25
and you write off what God is actually doing, and you're
00:22:30
missing the life that is changing people in front of you,
00:22:36
and you don't even see it. You pulling it back to the
00:22:40
original topic in your life personally and as someone who's
00:22:44
has some years that's aged, I don't want to say older, but
00:22:47
older than us by comparison that you have a few years on.
00:22:51
Well, everybody's younger. You know as you full circle
00:22:54
this, that it's the same thing. If, if you're going to bear
00:22:58
fruit at every stage of your life, then you too can't be
00:23:01
backed up along the way. You can't allow yourself to get
00:23:04
stuck. You I think of some spiritual
00:23:06
attacks that could come as we get older, as as we're talking
00:23:10
about the young, you know, part of it is the young people.
00:23:12
Oh, this is church just for young people.
00:23:14
It's silly. That's not true.
00:23:16
Even though young people might get platformed.
00:23:17
And one of the reasons we make space for the young people would
00:23:20
not only be in the next generation, but they got all the
00:23:22
energy and it's so beautiful to watch them.
00:23:25
It's so beautiful, like and that's that we we just have a
00:23:28
convenient memory because we forgot we were the young people
00:23:32
at one time. And there's a, as you get older,
00:23:35
you got to work smarter, not harder.
00:23:37
And so then you got to ask the Lord, OK, what's that look like?
00:23:41
What's that look like for me? How can I continue to serve in a
00:23:46
way that's fruitful, that doesn't depend so much upon my
00:23:51
physical strength, right? And you are not pastoring a
00:23:54
church anymore and you've had these three what you went from
00:23:57
Phoenix to Exeter pastoring a a smaller church than Phoenix.
00:24:01
And then then you started the appointment ministries serving
00:24:04
with the appointment ministries. Now you're you're overseeing
00:24:07
your own ministry mission assist along the way you've had to
00:24:12
battle through knowing what what are the rewards?
00:24:16
They're not just who showed up. The reward can't be who showed
00:24:19
up for church anymore. The reward can't be I like that,
00:24:23
like you've had to adjust your life accordingly where your
00:24:27
reward is just pleasing the Lord and obedience.
00:24:30
Yeah, because there's there's a confidence when you hear from
00:24:34
the Lord and you spend some time with him and it's not based even
00:24:40
on what you do. That's not even the foundation,
00:24:43
it's being with him, letting, letting that relationship.
00:24:48
And it's fascinating that when you spend time with the Lord,
00:24:52
just you and him rehearsing who he is, what he's done.
00:24:56
And in that whole conversation, all the sudden he'll drop, he'll
00:25:00
drop a thought into your heart that has to do with what you've
00:25:04
been praying for on a whole nother subject And it all makes
00:25:07
sense and you're going, of course, why don't I think of
00:25:09
that? And that's just he wants that
00:25:12
relationship first before, I don't know how else to say it,
00:25:18
but but before you've been praying about all these things,
00:25:21
well, just put it over here, spend some time with him and
00:25:25
he'll drop a piece for the next most important thing.
00:25:30
I think the significance seriousness of, of this episode,
00:25:34
just taking a turn as we're talking is exactly what we need
00:25:38
to be open to. And the topic now ends up
00:25:41
becoming, you're not too old, you're not too old.
00:25:45
God has a purpose and a plan. And old doesn't necessarily even
00:25:49
have to be in the 70s. It could be you.
00:25:51
You turn 30 and that's a significant number for you.
00:25:54
And now you're thinking, I'm not so young anymore.
00:25:56
You turn 40 or you turn 50 or along the way where God has
00:26:01
something for you in every season.
00:26:04
And there was just that time in Bob's life that I always have
00:26:07
with me. It's it's been deposited in me
00:26:09
that the latter years will be more fruitful than the earliest.
00:26:12
And whenever I see you in Genie, that's what I always think when
00:26:14
you send me your list of the things you're involved in.
00:26:17
That's what I think. When there's someone that calls
00:26:19
and asks for your help or I hear you're heading up, you're going
00:26:21
on a trip, I'm like, that's fulfilment.
00:26:23
That's like, because you shared that, because that becomes a
00:26:26
part of your life now. Your life becomes God keeps his
00:26:30
promise. God keeps his promise and you
00:26:32
can get seasons of rest too. You don't always have to be.
00:26:35
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:36
Like we saw we talked about in an earlier episode that you
00:26:38
don't always have to be doing something in order to fulfill
00:26:41
the will of God. Yeah.
00:26:42
Rest is important. Keep.
00:26:44
That perspective, I mean, sometimes you can just get a
00:26:46
little a little too much. And that's where he just says,
00:26:50
hey, I'm going to mix things up. Yeah.
00:26:54
And so then you go, really. OK, we'll see how that goes.
00:26:59
Well, we're coming to the end of another episode.
00:27:02
We took a little turn, which is great.
00:27:04
We'll get into the topic for episode 4 next time.
00:27:07
But thanks for joining us, talking with Bob.
00:27:10
And you can have these same conversations, whether it's with
00:27:13
Bob or sitting down over a cup of coffee talking about one
00:27:18
thing. And then the Holy Spirit says,
00:27:20
stay there, stay there, talk about that, share your heart.
00:27:23
And I know that Bob is an encouragement to all of us.
00:27:27
Again, an answer to prayer. Bob and Jeannie both and
00:27:30
answered a prayer in a season of our church where we just needed
00:27:34
a seasoned voice. We wanted not just needed.
00:27:36
We wanted. I wanted a seasoned voice where
00:27:40
as we're talking because we have a multi generational staff like
00:27:45
we have young kids, we have younger, we have older.
00:27:50
It's great. It's wonderful, but that it when
00:27:53
I say staff and team, it's probably better just to refer to
00:27:56
it as a team where we're together in every part, every
00:28:00
person, just like Paul said to the Corinthians is needed.
00:28:03
I remember that. That's a word from the Lord just
00:28:06
kind of sneaking this episode in, which is really, really
00:28:08
good. If you have any feedback, let us
00:28:11
know. e-mail us.ed@edtaylor.org. Bob can be reached Bob
00:28:17
klaycamp.com. I can be reached at edtaylor.org
00:28:21
or our church, our app. You know, we have a lot of
00:28:24
resources available to serve you.
00:28:26
We want to serve you. Our heart is particularly toward
00:28:29
pastors, churches, but all the way, all the way around.
00:28:34
We just want to see you grow in grace because the coming of the
00:28:37
Lord is at hand. We're talking numbers in age and
00:28:40
everything, but the reality is, is that we don't know.
00:28:43
We don't know how old we're going to be.
00:28:45
We don't know when the Lord's coming back, and we don't know
00:28:48
when we're coming going home to be with the Lord.
00:28:51
So every day has to matter. Every day we've got to give God
00:28:56
our best in whatever it is that He's called us to in the moment.
00:29:00
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00:29:06
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00:29:13
But this is the Lead to Serve podcast.
00:29:15
My name is Ed Taylor, I'm the pastor of Calvary Church in
00:29:18
Colorado, Aurora, Co and we thank Pastor Bob Claycamp for
00:29:23
joining us for another episode. Till next time, God bless you
00:29:25
guys. Be encouraged in the Lord.
00:29:28
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve
00:29:31
with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary
00:29:34
Church in Aurora, Co. If you have a leadership
00:29:37
question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to
00:29:40
Serve podcast, please e-mail it to Pastor Ed at Calvary Co dot
00:29:44
church. And if you like our podcast,
00:29:46
please subscribe, rate or review us on iTunes and share us with
00:29:49
your friends on social media. Thanks again for joining us, and
00:29:53
we'll see you next time right here on the Lead to Serve
00:29:56
podcast.
