In this episode of the Lead to Serve podcast, Pastor Ed Taylor and Pastor Bob Claycamp talk about the impact of insecurity in leadership, particularly within pastoral roles. We explore how insecurity can manifest in behaviors like control, harshness, and comparison, ultimately hindering a leader's ability to serve effectively. Drawing from personal experiences and biblical examples, they emphasize the importance of finding one's identity and confidence in Jesus to overcome these challenges. If you don't overcome your insecurities, you will hurt many. The conversation highlights the need for humility, repentance, and a focus on serving others rather than self. It's important to reflect on your own insecurities and seek growth through faith and reliance on God.
Key Words: lead to serve, podcast, Pastor Ed Taylor, Pastor Bob Clay Camp, servant leadership, ministry, insecurities in leadership, pastoral ministry, identity in Christ, overcoming insecurities, spiritual growth, church community, external validation, personal anecdotes, control in leadership, comparison, 2 Corinthians 10, leadership challenges, humility, self-reflection, godly sorrow, repentance, growth in faith, gaslighting, manipulation in leadership, biblical perspective, David, Saul, Absalom, vulnerability in leadership, consequences of insecurity, community in ministry, true leadership, servanthood, encouragement for leaders, insights on insecurity, leadership effectiveness, navigating insecurities, importance of identity, challenges in ministry, fostering dialogue, leadership development.
[00:00:06] This is Lead2Serve with Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast.
[00:00:10] Welcome to another edition of the Lead2Serve podcast with Pastor Ed Taylor. In studio with me
[00:00:18] today for another edition is Pastor Bob Klaykamp. Welcome again, Pastor Bob.
[00:00:24] Great to be here.
[00:00:25] How are your prayer walks going?
[00:00:27] They're going good. As long as it's sunny.
[00:00:30] As long as it's sunny.
[00:00:31] Yeah, when it starts getting cold and the snow starts blowing, I'm not sure how that's going to work.
[00:00:35] You don't take your walks in the snow?
[00:00:38] No, because falling down is a 911 event.
[00:00:41] We do not want to fall down. I agree.
[00:00:44] Welcome again to another edition. We are in studio talking about things that are relevant to our
[00:00:51] servanthood. You remember our goal is to help you grow in your servant leadership, in your servanthood,
[00:00:58] so that you'll glorify God in everything that you do, because the better servant you are,
[00:01:04] the better leader you'll become. These times are designed to discuss important topics, and they are
[00:01:09] important. They go right to the heart of the matter. Related to your serving the Lord, my service under the
[00:01:15] Lord, no matter where you are, home, work, church, at the market, wherever you might, at the airport,
[00:01:22] on the highway, or in some places they call it the freeway. You want to be a good servant. You want to
[00:01:28] think of others more highly than yourself. Pastor Bob Claykamp, 50 plus years of ministry experience,
[00:01:36] many of those years as a pastor. He's been with us for a few years. He pastored in Phoenix for many
[00:01:42] years. He pastored in Exeter, England for many years, and now in Aurora, Colorado. He is a part of
[00:01:49] something known as the Poiman Ministries, Poiman Ministries, where God uses him around the country
[00:01:56] and around the world to serve pastors, to serve churches. He's always available. I mean, obviously,
[00:02:02] his schedule permitting, but he's available to serve you. All you need to do is reach out to him.
[00:02:06] He has his own website, bobclaykamp.com, bobclaykamp.com. Today's topic, with all that in mind,
[00:02:15] as we start off, is the topic of insecurities or insecurity in the leader, in the servant.
[00:02:25] Typical definition right here from my MacBook Pro. Uncertainty or anxiety about oneself. Lack of
[00:02:36] confidence. And then another definition is the state of being open to danger or threat.
[00:02:45] A lack of protection. Insecurities. Let me just say at the very beginning,
[00:02:53] insecurity in a pastor and a leader has damaged countless people. Agree or disagree, and why?
[00:03:03] Agree. Absolutely agree. Because you end up looking to the reaction of the people as proof of your
[00:03:12] success or failure. And I think that people have been watching, you end up out of insecurity,
[00:03:21] you end up lashing out against those who question your choice and authority. The whole root of that
[00:03:28] insecurity is your identity. And when your identity is in Christ and you're sure of your calling and
[00:03:37] you're walking in love, then there's a security that comes with just being secure in Christ rather than
[00:03:46] looking and focusing on your own weaknesses, your own inabilities, or your own frustrations,
[00:03:54] your own expectations that haven't been met. And then you throw in there how your flesh
[00:04:02] has been patterned to respond when those things happen. And it just creates chaos. It creates,
[00:04:10] it breaks down trust and it's not productive for spiritual growth in the people you're trying to
[00:04:16] help. Those two words, the definition is really great. There's two words associated with it,
[00:04:22] uncertainty and anxiety about oneself. The antidote then just from that simple English definition would be
[00:04:29] to be certain and confident about yourself. And we would add in Christ, your identity, your calling,
[00:04:38] your role, your purpose. Identity is everything to understand who you are and not have to deal. I wish we
[00:04:47] didn't have to deal with the fear of man. The fear of man is a snare. And one of the snares is
[00:04:54] insecurity. And insecurity damages so many people because you enter in, in a very simple way,
[00:05:02] you and I, we enter in to the situation, thinking of ourselves completely, 100%, to protect ourselves,
[00:05:11] to inflate ourselves, to any word that you can think of that involves the word, that involves the
[00:05:18] suffix self, is going to lead to the examination of some insecurity. Insecurity has done a lot of damage.
[00:05:29] It has hurt people because a man that's been given the privilege of leadership in God's church
[00:05:36] and tries to protect or project, protect or project, his image will do just about anything.
[00:05:47] Yeah.
[00:05:48] Just about anything that's based on self. And a lot of damage has been done. It doesn't have to be big,
[00:05:55] though.
[00:05:56] Well, I think of King Saul, King Saul of Israel. He started off with every potential, every strength,
[00:06:05] every good thing to make him successful. But in his own insecurity, as time went on,
[00:06:11] it led to disobedience. It led to dealing with people harshly. It led to receiving rumors.
[00:06:19] It put oppression upon those under him. It never turns out well.
[00:06:25] It doesn't. Harsh is a word I had jotted down on our prep notes here, because that harshness is
[00:06:32] definitely a sign of insecurity. And I would put it backwards. I would say from harshness,
[00:06:39] if you take harshness at the end and you move backwards, the word behind that would be like
[00:06:45] control. Well, you go back to the basics with you and Jesus.
[00:06:49] Then it would be thinking of yourself like automatically is better than the person in front of you.
[00:06:53] And for a servant of the Lord, you are a son or daughter of the living God. And Jesus Christ is
[00:07:00] your Lord.
[00:07:00] Remember where we came from.
[00:07:02] The title Lord means that he is in charge of your life.
[00:07:05] And so when you take your life with all the different spheres and little arenas and circles
[00:07:13] of your life, all of that has to be brought under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
[00:07:17] Like what happens with pastors? I could speak with pastors, I think.
[00:07:20] And when you examine the Gospels, they want to do both. They want to project some kind of image.
[00:07:24] And you look at the life of the disciples following Jesus.
[00:07:25] My church is better than yours, bigger than yours, I'm better than you, I teach better,
[00:07:29] I pastor better, I serve better, I am better, because look at me, I've got more people in my church,
[00:07:34] I've got more money than you, I teach at more conferences, all the different measurements,
[00:07:38] the projecting.
[00:07:38] Oh yeah, finally, finally, finally.
[00:07:40] But then when they're, and then they get to the place, and there's this big crowd,
[00:07:43] or we talked about in a previous episode of the podcast, when you have to share the truth,
[00:07:48] he had compassion on them, and saw them as sheep without a shepherd, and he went and ministered
[00:07:54] to them, and then there was this feeding of the 5,000, which all of a sudden, now they got put
[00:07:59] back into service, and you just not, and all taking into consideration the person that's in
[00:08:05] front of you, it is not about the person in front of you, it's conforming, it is get along
[00:08:11] with the program, it is, yeah, all sorts of things, I mean, it's following Jesus is just
[00:08:15] being obedient to what he sets before you at the time to do, and let him sort out all
[00:08:21] the rest of it, rather than trying to sort it out yourself, your family, your kids, I
[00:08:26] mean, it's one thing to be important, having your kids in your heart, and paying attention
[00:08:34] to them not being so caught up with work, you forget your family, but, I mean, the Holy
[00:08:39] Spirit has been given to you, as a believer, to be able to guide you, and to lead you day
[00:08:46] by day, and being obedient to that leading will create a lifetime, even though that's
[00:08:54] a fulfilled lifetime.
[00:08:55] And when I put on a strong front, sometimes this whole philosophy that the best defense
[00:09:00] is a good offense, and that's just, you're just flaming people with, and then you blame
[00:09:10] people, flaming and blaming, there you go.
[00:09:12] Yeah.
[00:09:13] Yeah.
[00:09:13] Insecurity also takes us away from a life of faith.
[00:09:16] While the Bible doesn't explicitly say this, we could think it through that a part of Peter's
[00:09:23] failures was his insecurity around the other disciples, wanting to be the greatest, and arguing
[00:09:29] about that, and just not a simple faith that what Jesus said about him is true.
[00:09:35] Jesus looked him in the eye, and he's like, you're going to, you're going to deny me.
[00:09:40] And that, no, no, if I deny you, then that'll make me look like this, it'll make me look,
[00:09:45] like, just not receiving the truth and really processing it, but rather denying it, putting
[00:09:50] up such a front where, I mean, I know my own weaknesses.
[00:09:55] Sometimes I'm, parts of my weaknesses are revealed in deeper ways that I didn't know,
[00:10:00] but I mean, I have a generally good assessment of myself.
[00:10:04] I have a generally good assessment.
[00:10:06] I have a tendency being the realist, we've already settled that in another episode, the
[00:10:11] realist that I am, that I recognize these, I have a tendency to recognize probably more
[00:10:18] the failures or the weaknesses than I do any strengths.
[00:10:22] And so I have a fair assessment of myself, but on occasion, God will reveal even more to
[00:10:29] me.
[00:10:32] And what he's trying to do is put my finger on a place where I'm not abiding in him, and
[00:10:37] I'm not drawing on his resources, and I'm not okay.
[00:10:40] That's the thing.
[00:10:41] I'm not okay with these weaknesses.
[00:10:43] They almost seem like something I want to get rid of, or something I want to, like I'm
[00:10:48] always improving and I'm always wanting to grow.
[00:10:50] And while that's healthy in one sense, it's also unhealthy.
[00:10:54] If I don't just accept, you're right.
[00:10:56] This is something that needs to be taken to the cross.
[00:11:00] And one of the missing links in some of these discussions we're having is godly sorrow and
[00:11:08] repentance.
[00:11:10] Like, so I'm thinking, well, yeah, I have insecurities.
[00:11:13] It's coming out right now in my thinking, like, I have some insecurities myself.
[00:11:16] I can think through, but I'm almost talking to you, Bob, like, it's okay.
[00:11:21] I can have some insecurities instead of like, man, this hinders me and has a potential to
[00:11:27] hinder me to be useful.
[00:11:29] Why am I okay with it?
[00:11:30] Like, why am I accepting of it?
[00:11:32] Why am I not like taking it to the Lord on my prayer walks with Bob in the snow, talking
[00:11:38] about like, Lord, I don't want, I want to have this confidence.
[00:11:41] You've brought me thus far.
[00:11:43] I don't want to have this insecurity.
[00:11:45] And God has done that over the years.
[00:11:47] I mean, I think of, I think of the opportunity to teach at conferences.
[00:11:54] People will always ask me, am I nervous?
[00:11:57] And the answer is, yeah, on occasion I'm nervous, but nervousness comes from a lack of confidence.
[00:12:05] I mean, there is a nerve, I guess we could all be spiritual about it.
[00:12:07] Yes, I'm nervous because I want to handle the text, right?
[00:12:10] And that's true.
[00:12:11] It's true.
[00:12:11] It's true.
[00:12:11] But that's not the nervousness that I think is being asked about.
[00:12:14] The nervousness I'm being asked, I don't know.
[00:12:16] Will they connect with me?
[00:12:18] Will I, am I in the spirit today that I handle the text well?
[00:12:21] Are they going to come with me?
[00:12:22] Like, am I, I know I'll be faithful to give the word, but I, I want to be more than faithful
[00:12:26] to give the word.
[00:12:27] I want them to come with me.
[00:12:29] I want to see life impact.
[00:12:31] I want to see change.
[00:12:32] And so there is a nervousness, especially when I'm teaching a group that doesn't know me and
[00:12:36] I can't rely on any tricks that I've ever used before.
[00:12:40] Like I can use here because they trust me and they know me and they already know my jokes
[00:12:43] are dumb and they already know how I, my style of teaching where I want to connect.
[00:12:49] And it's, if I don't connect early on, uh, it's going to be a hard 40 minutes or so like
[00:12:55] teaching.
[00:12:55] So there's a nervousness, but part of that nervousness is insecurity because the other
[00:13:00] side of that coin is, Hey, I'm here.
[00:13:03] I've prayed.
[00:13:04] I've prepared.
[00:13:05] I prayed over this group and I'm in a conference.
[00:13:08] I like sitting at, I do not like hiding in the green room.
[00:13:11] I don't, I want to be in the plate.
[00:13:13] I want to be with the flock.
[00:13:14] I want to talk, learn, pray, enjoy.
[00:13:16] So I'm here.
[00:13:18] I've given God my best.
[00:13:20] So part of that is I shouldn't be nervous at all.
[00:13:23] I'm just going to trust the Lord.
[00:13:24] It's, it's his conference.
[00:13:25] So I know I have, I know I have those things in me, but I can't, I can't create the habit
[00:13:32] of being okay with it without condemning myself.
[00:13:37] Does that make sense?
[00:13:38] Yeah.
[00:13:38] Yeah.
[00:13:38] I think that, um, a person can identify that he has insecurities or she has insecurities,
[00:13:46] but you can't just get stuck there because it's quicksand.
[00:13:50] And so, um, anybody that has an area of insecurity, I think we all have insecurities
[00:13:56] that's in different ways, but is there hope for a person who has a lot of insecurities
[00:14:03] and they can see the failures and the, and yes, there's absolutely hope you, you can become
[00:14:10] more secure in Christ.
[00:14:12] I don't think you're going to become Superman.
[00:14:15] I just think that little by little, step by step, the Lord is committed.
[00:14:19] I mean, man, man, before the flood, the average age of man was over 900 years and the Lord
[00:14:25] was good with that.
[00:14:26] And so our measly 70 or 80 years, he's okay with that.
[00:14:30] I mean, he's, he's patient.
[00:14:32] And so he already knew what he was getting into when he called us to himself.
[00:14:36] So that's good.
[00:14:38] He's, he already knows the strategy and he's going to take us step by step and he's not
[00:14:43] going to compare us with anybody else.
[00:14:45] And when you're in a position of leadership, there's all kinds of pressures upon you.
[00:14:52] Especially if, if those of you that are listening are in a denominational setting, you've got
[00:14:56] expectations of those who are the district superintendent and, and you've got to put in
[00:15:02] your reports and all that, and it makes you look bad and there's all that.
[00:15:07] And, and you just have to.
[00:15:08] Well, I think that if you have.
[00:15:10] Come to the place to say.
[00:15:11] If you're in a family setting.
[00:15:12] First of all, and my security is in Jesus and he enables me to do what I can do.
[00:15:19] When I can do it.
[00:15:20] Then you need to communicate.
[00:15:20] How I can do it.
[00:15:22] I have to operate within the measure of grace that he gives me.
[00:15:25] You need to communicate to them.
[00:15:26] I don't have the same grace as somebody else.
[00:15:29] Like you were saying.
[00:15:30] And so I have to be okay with that.
[00:15:32] Even when I know it's going to create problems for me.
[00:15:37] And so this is my, this is my hope to be just okay with it because God's in charge.
[00:15:41] I think it's extending grace.
[00:15:42] This is a normal part.
[00:15:43] Just to have grace space in the family.
[00:15:44] But you guys listening in.
[00:15:45] To, but you got to communicate what your expectations are.
[00:15:49] It doesn't mean it's okay.
[00:15:50] Because if you don't do that, then it creates conflict.
[00:15:51] Or what I like to say, it's natural.
[00:15:53] I'm speaking from personal experience.
[00:15:54] But what we really want is the supernatural.
[00:15:56] Okay.
[00:15:56] And so I have my issue.
[00:15:59] Being able to.
[00:16:00] Personally.
[00:16:00] Stay, stay in a place of usability.
[00:16:03] I have to be careful.
[00:16:03] Because this can really stop you very, very quickly.
[00:16:05] It can hinder.
[00:16:07] Because insecurities.
[00:16:08] Because my wife.
[00:16:09] Quickly morph into pride.
[00:16:11] My attention.
[00:16:11] And pride brings a halt to the work of God in us in ministry right away.
[00:16:17] Sometimes she has three or four minutes between the things she says.
[00:16:21] Now we're talking humility and all of the characteristics that will make us more helpful.
[00:16:25] But you use the word comparing.
[00:16:27] And it reminded me of the scripture that Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 10.
[00:16:31] And so there's.
[00:16:31] We dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend them.
[00:16:35] I'm not myself.
[00:16:36] But there's.
[00:16:36] But they.
[00:16:37] There's dead air time.
[00:16:38] Measuring themselves by themselves.
[00:16:40] That she's uncommunicated.
[00:16:41] And comparing themselves among themselves.
[00:16:43] And so.
[00:16:44] Are not wise.
[00:16:45] I've got to just learn to grow in that.
[00:16:47] I mean, I've been married.
[00:16:47] In one verse that you and I both mentioned.
[00:16:49] But 54 years.
[00:16:49] I mentioned the self.
[00:16:51] And so.
[00:16:51] And it's.
[00:16:51] And he mentions it.
[00:16:52] I'm still learning about that.
[00:16:54] And so.
[00:16:54] I've got to.
[00:16:55] Just.
[00:16:56] Choose my time wisely and be sensitive to the moment.
[00:16:59] And you mentioned comparison.
[00:17:00] And both of these.
[00:17:01] It's just not wise.
[00:17:02] It's not helpful.
[00:17:04] Because you have a role.
[00:17:05] I have a role.
[00:17:06] And together.
[00:17:08] God's chosen to use us.
[00:17:10] But we can't excuse it.
[00:17:12] I was.
[00:17:13] There was a situation in my life.
[00:17:15] A few years ago.
[00:17:16] Where I was publicly.
[00:17:18] Made fun of.
[00:17:20] By a brother.
[00:17:22] And.
[00:17:23] It was not good.
[00:17:24] And I.
[00:17:25] I believe that that.
[00:17:26] It required a.
[00:17:28] Sit down meeting.
[00:17:29] Which I asked for.
[00:17:30] So that I could share it with him.
[00:17:32] And come.
[00:17:33] Just like we've been talking.
[00:17:33] Say the hard things.
[00:17:35] Matthew 18.
[00:17:36] Let's work through these things.
[00:17:38] Let's see if we can come to.
[00:17:40] A conclusion.
[00:17:41] And I shared that.
[00:17:42] And he admitted that.
[00:17:44] And he.
[00:17:45] Gave an apology.
[00:17:46] I'm sorry for that.
[00:17:47] But in his apology.
[00:17:48] He said.
[00:17:49] I'm sorry for that.
[00:17:50] But you know.
[00:17:50] I'm just insecure.
[00:17:52] And he began to take away.
[00:17:54] The.
[00:17:54] Apology.
[00:17:55] With trying to explain to me.
[00:17:57] How insecure he is.
[00:17:58] And this is the way it is.
[00:17:59] And it's the way he's always going to be.
[00:18:00] He always has been.
[00:18:02] And it's the way he's always going to be.
[00:18:03] And I'm.
[00:18:04] I'm like that.
[00:18:04] That's not much of an apology bro.
[00:18:06] Like.
[00:18:07] Like.
[00:18:07] That.
[00:18:07] Like you.
[00:18:08] You need to own this.
[00:18:10] But not just own what you did.
[00:18:11] Because I'll get over it.
[00:18:12] It's you.
[00:18:13] You.
[00:18:14] You have this position.
[00:18:15] Of leadership.
[00:18:16] And you.
[00:18:17] Will use it.
[00:18:18] Whatever moment.
[00:18:19] To think you're going to get a cheap laugh.
[00:18:20] At the expense of someone else.
[00:18:22] And it wasn't even a cheap laugh.
[00:18:24] It was the kind of situation.
[00:18:25] That made the room awkward.
[00:18:27] It made it a very uncomfortable thing.
[00:18:30] And.
[00:18:30] And I know that in my life.
[00:18:32] As I experienced that.
[00:18:33] I just.
[00:18:33] I don't want to.
[00:18:35] Let my humanity.
[00:18:36] Be an excuse.
[00:18:37] To not grow.
[00:18:39] Because I'm.
[00:18:40] I've seen over the years.
[00:18:42] God allowing me.
[00:18:43] To be in situations.
[00:18:44] So he'll deal with the insecurity.
[00:18:47] He'll deal with it.
[00:18:48] It's kind of the.
[00:18:49] For.
[00:18:49] A long time.
[00:18:51] I really wanted to.
[00:18:52] Teach at conferences.
[00:18:53] So God would give me an opportunity.
[00:18:55] He taught me at.
[00:18:55] He let me teach at the senior pastors conference.
[00:18:58] When we still met at Marietta.
[00:19:00] The room was filled with 1200 men.
[00:19:03] All pastoring churches.
[00:19:04] Wonderful men.
[00:19:05] Great churches.
[00:19:06] And.
[00:19:08] And I.
[00:19:08] I was given the privilege to teach.
[00:19:11] Almost like.
[00:19:12] Is that what you wanted?
[00:19:13] Yeah.
[00:19:13] Lord.
[00:19:13] That's what I want.
[00:19:14] And.
[00:19:14] And I prepared.
[00:19:15] And I.
[00:19:16] And I was ready.
[00:19:17] And.
[00:19:18] And in the teaching.
[00:19:19] I bombed.
[00:19:20] I went over time.
[00:19:21] I lost my place.
[00:19:23] I.
[00:19:23] And a few other things.
[00:19:25] The teaching itself.
[00:19:26] I think the Lord honored it.
[00:19:27] But.
[00:19:28] I know that.
[00:19:29] As I go.
[00:19:29] Do a debrief.
[00:19:30] Looking back on it.
[00:19:31] It was all about me.
[00:19:33] And God wanted me to see it.
[00:19:35] He wanted me to feel it.
[00:19:36] He wanted me to be back in the.
[00:19:38] The lunch area.
[00:19:40] Where the guy.
[00:19:41] The table behind me.
[00:19:42] Is criticizing me.
[00:19:43] The table over here.
[00:19:44] Is telling me.
[00:19:45] They're talking about how they would have done better.
[00:19:47] They.
[00:19:48] There was.
[00:19:48] There was a lot.
[00:19:49] And God was just like.
[00:19:51] Ed.
[00:19:51] This is what you want?
[00:19:52] And I'm like.
[00:19:53] Yeah.
[00:19:54] Not really.
[00:19:55] Not really.
[00:19:56] And.
[00:19:56] But.
[00:19:57] What he was trying to show me.
[00:19:58] Wasn't all the other tables.
[00:19:59] Wasn't the other people.
[00:20:00] He was showing me.
[00:20:02] He was.
[00:20:03] He was training me.
[00:20:04] And.
[00:20:05] And he didn't tell.
[00:20:05] I didn't get this sense of the Holy Spirit.
[00:20:07] Gave me this.
[00:20:08] Burden back then.
[00:20:09] But now looking back.
[00:20:10] I can see.
[00:20:12] Like.
[00:20:12] Ed.
[00:20:12] I'm preparing you for the ministry.
[00:20:14] I have for you.
[00:20:15] And if you don't get through this.
[00:20:16] And if you stay here.
[00:20:18] And you.
[00:20:18] You think that this is the end.
[00:20:20] You.
[00:20:21] You think that this is the end.
[00:20:22] Your little desires.
[00:20:24] Then.
[00:20:24] You'll never be usable for me.
[00:20:26] Yeah.
[00:20:27] And so let me give it to you.
[00:20:28] Let me.
[00:20:28] Let you stand there.
[00:20:29] Let Pastor Chuck in.
[00:20:30] And.
[00:20:30] Sit there and fall asleep on your teaching over here.
[00:20:33] Which he's tired anyway.
[00:20:34] Like that's.
[00:20:35] That's just the way it is.
[00:20:36] Or.
[00:20:37] Or everybody upset.
[00:20:38] That you took away time.
[00:20:39] That.
[00:20:39] Because you couldn't figure out.
[00:20:41] And back then I didn't have a timer on the pulpit.
[00:20:43] I relied on the clock.
[00:20:45] But the problem with relying on the clock.
[00:20:47] Bob.
[00:20:47] Is that you have to do the math in your head.
[00:20:49] And then you hear God.
[00:20:50] Like okay.
[00:20:51] It's.
[00:20:51] I've got to end here.
[00:20:52] And it's this time.
[00:20:53] But then this time.
[00:20:54] Minus this time.
[00:20:55] And it was just.
[00:20:57] It was just.
[00:20:58] An event.
[00:20:59] That God was showing my.
[00:21:00] My insecurities.
[00:21:01] I was in the pulpit.
[00:21:03] There.
[00:21:03] And I think if you would have told me at the time.
[00:21:05] I don't know that I would have said.
[00:21:07] Yeah.
[00:21:07] It was.
[00:21:07] It's all about me.
[00:21:09] Um.
[00:21:09] And I don't think it was completely about me.
[00:21:11] But it was a lot about me.
[00:21:13] And there are just things you.
[00:21:15] Nobody's going to be able to say the hard thing.
[00:21:17] God's going to say the hard thing.
[00:21:19] And he's going to deal a death blow to that area.
[00:21:22] Ed.
[00:21:22] When you're thinking all about yourself.
[00:21:24] You're going to be prone to worry about everybody.
[00:21:26] These guys falling asleep.
[00:21:28] These guys checking their phones.
[00:21:30] Yeah.
[00:21:30] These guys walking out.
[00:21:32] You can have a season of work.
[00:21:32] It was highly demanding for a season.
[00:21:34] A man you admire over there falling asleep on you.
[00:21:36] And in your mind you go.
[00:21:37] I need to spend time with the kids.
[00:21:38] Then you don't have any extra.
[00:21:39] The go-to with that thought is you go to the Lord.
[00:21:43] There's an easier way.
[00:21:44] God, I would like to have you block out some time.
[00:21:47] Don't worry about what people think.
[00:21:48] That I could spend with my kids.
[00:21:50] You serve me.
[00:21:51] It's easier.
[00:21:52] And I've found this.
[00:21:53] It's easier to serve the Lord.
[00:21:54] And help me recognize it.
[00:21:56] Any day of the week.
[00:21:57] And not just go.
[00:21:57] But I can make it harder.
[00:21:59] I have momentum.
[00:22:00] Yes.
[00:22:01] I remember coming to a.
[00:22:02] I want to let every day be fresh.
[00:22:04] Every day be new.
[00:22:04] Because I can have some insecurities.
[00:22:06] And when someone that is higher up.
[00:22:09] Day by day.
[00:22:11] But take it to the Lord.
[00:22:12] Because if he's the one who has the schedule.
[00:22:16] And then.
[00:22:16] Or schedule.
[00:22:17] And makes a demand for you to do something that you know is wrong.
[00:22:20] Then all of a sudden you're going to find yourself.
[00:22:23] All of a sudden there's this.
[00:22:24] It was such pressure.
[00:22:25] And then they bring in somebody else to encourage that.
[00:22:28] You're sitting in the living room.
[00:22:28] You need to do this.
[00:22:29] You need to make it.
[00:22:30] And you just know.
[00:22:32] It's a crossroad.
[00:22:33] And you go hey.
[00:22:34] It's a crossroad.
[00:22:35] Let's go up to your insecurity.
[00:22:37] And just bend to what you know is wrong.
[00:22:39] You know there you go.
[00:22:40] Because you don't want to make waves.
[00:22:42] God wants to use the things of life.
[00:22:44] Now are you going to make a decision.
[00:22:45] To teach us about him and about ourselves.
[00:22:48] And then just take whatever happens, happens.
[00:22:53] And I did.
[00:22:55] It was a.
[00:22:56] It was like I just.
[00:22:57] I couldn't believe I was being asked to do this.
[00:23:00] And I'm going okay this is going to like seal my future so to speak.
[00:23:05] As someone who is not loyal in rebellion.
[00:23:10] But it was a serious situation.
[00:23:13] And so I had to do what I felt was the right thing before the Lord.
[00:23:17] And so he brings you to those crossroads.
[00:23:19] To help you grow.
[00:23:21] That's good.
[00:23:21] To help you grow.
[00:23:22] To be more secure in him.
[00:23:26] Yeah knowing your identity is so important.
[00:23:28] I wrote an article on edtaylor.org on this very topic.
[00:23:32] So if you put in insecure in the search bar.
[00:23:36] It'll bring up this article I wrote a couple years ago.
[00:23:38] But here's some things that I wrote down.
[00:23:40] Signs of an insecure pastor.
[00:23:43] Often include.
[00:23:44] Trying to control everything and everyone.
[00:23:47] Finding fault in others.
[00:23:49] Being threatened by others' success.
[00:23:52] Needing to be the center of attention.
[00:23:55] Gossiping and spreading rumors.
[00:23:57] Manipulating people to get their way.
[00:24:00] Constantly putting others down.
[00:24:03] Refusing to take responsibility for their actions.
[00:24:06] Having a quick temper.
[00:24:08] Being jealous of others' relationships.
[00:24:11] Trying to control the conversation.
[00:24:14] Never admitting they're wrong.
[00:24:16] Making everything about them.
[00:24:19] Being self-absorbed.
[00:24:21] Having a sense of entitlement.
[00:24:24] Only caring about themselves and their needs.
[00:24:28] And another one is always trying to bully you into making decisions their way.
[00:24:33] I mean there's another word to describe that.
[00:24:35] It's narcissism.
[00:24:36] But like this insecurity where it's all about control.
[00:24:39] And keep things in a place that.
[00:24:41] It's almost like.
[00:24:42] I just want you to know Bob.
[00:24:44] I want you to know who I am.
[00:24:46] I am me.
[00:24:47] And you are Bob.
[00:24:48] And you're just a notch below me.
[00:24:50] Just don't ever forget that.
[00:24:52] But that's not the words that are used.
[00:24:54] Instead it's this passive aggressive control freak.
[00:24:58] Like.
[00:24:59] And that's the worst.
[00:25:00] And let's be careful.
[00:25:02] You're listening right now.
[00:25:03] You're thinking man.
[00:25:04] That seems pretty extreme.
[00:25:05] Yeah.
[00:25:06] It's the worst.
[00:25:07] But it exists.
[00:25:08] And to think.
[00:25:09] I remember the book.
[00:25:12] Tale of Three Kings.
[00:25:13] Talking about how to deal when you're hurt.
[00:25:16] Or any.
[00:25:16] And when things are coming against you.
[00:25:19] And you've got David.
[00:25:20] You got Saul.
[00:25:21] And you got Absalom.
[00:25:23] One of the things.
[00:25:24] And it may not be a direct quote.
[00:25:26] But this is how I remember.
[00:25:27] One of the principles I brought from that book.
[00:25:30] First of all of course is.
[00:25:31] We all want to be David in that scenario.
[00:25:34] We all want to be David.
[00:25:35] That's a noble cause.
[00:25:37] But many times we're not.
[00:25:39] But he said.
[00:25:40] Even if we are David.
[00:25:42] He said something along.
[00:25:43] Even if that's the choice we take.
[00:25:44] We don't want to be Saul.
[00:25:45] And even if we are David.
[00:25:47] We.
[00:25:48] Have a little bit of Absalom.
[00:25:49] Or a little bit of Saul.
[00:25:51] In all of us.
[00:25:52] Yeah.
[00:25:52] And that would be our flesh.
[00:25:54] That would be our weakness.
[00:25:55] Our humanity.
[00:25:56] The natural part of us.
[00:25:57] But if we're going to serve well.
[00:25:58] I was at a.
[00:25:59] We have to come to terms with this insecurity.
[00:26:01] We weren't going forward.
[00:26:02] We have to admit it.
[00:26:03] In their 14 years.
[00:26:03] We have to pray through it.
[00:26:04] We have to repent from it.
[00:26:07] If you want to go to the website again.
[00:26:08] And just put in insecure in the search bar.
[00:26:10] I even started talking to my leadership.
[00:26:12] Look at these things.
[00:26:13] Maybe print it out.
[00:26:14] And make sure.
[00:26:15] What?
[00:26:15] Before the Lord.
[00:26:16] If you're married.
[00:26:17] Talk to your spouse.
[00:26:18] Kind of sat me down.
[00:26:18] And said okay.
[00:26:19] Let's sort this out here.
[00:26:20] If you want to be vulnerable.
[00:26:21] Are you called to be here?
[00:26:22] Probably something an insecure pastor wouldn't do.
[00:26:24] Did I call you to pastor the church?
[00:26:24] What do you see in me?
[00:26:26] Do you see any of these things?
[00:26:28] Have I called you to lead?
[00:26:29] These are signs that you might be dealing with an insecure pastor or insecurity.
[00:26:34] And a real popular topic.
[00:26:36] I've taught me this.
[00:26:37] It wasn't always popular.
[00:26:38] But you could also add to it.
[00:26:41] An insecure pastor or leader or servant.
[00:26:43] You have no business.
[00:26:44] Uses gaslighting a lot.
[00:26:46] And gaslighting is saying one thing and then denying you ever said it.
[00:26:50] And doing the opposite.
[00:26:52] And it's really a tool of manipulation.
[00:26:55] Where you do something and it creates an environment.
[00:26:59] And then when you're called on it, you completely deny it.
[00:27:02] Like wow, I was there bro.
[00:27:03] It's on video.
[00:27:04] What do you mean?
[00:27:04] I have the quote.
[00:27:05] I have the receipts.
[00:27:07] You wrote it.
[00:27:08] No, I never did that.
[00:27:09] I never said that.
[00:27:15] It's absolutely not profitable in the church.
[00:27:19] So any other, I mean, we're coming up again to the end of an episode.
[00:27:22] Any other final thoughts on this?
[00:27:25] Well, here's the thing.
[00:27:25] Is that if we don't deal with the things the Holy Spirit's trying to deal with us,
[00:27:32] between him and us, then the Lord will let it play out.
[00:27:38] And we'll use the world's circumstances to be the teacher.
[00:27:42] Yeah.
[00:27:42] Because one way or the other, he wants to free us.
[00:27:46] Yes.
[00:27:47] And so if it takes the hard lesson to free us, then he'll let it go to the hard lesson.
[00:27:53] But he always starts with telling us the truth.
[00:27:57] You know, listen to my wisdom.
[00:27:58] Listen, you know, cut it off right now.
[00:28:01] Because if you don't cut it off right now, just know that I will use it.
[00:28:06] And it will grow and grow.
[00:28:08] It's the difference, right, between humbling yourself before the mighty hand of God and having God humble you.
[00:28:14] They're both painful.
[00:28:16] But I have found to humble myself is a little bit less painful.
[00:28:21] Where I'm presenting myself to the Lord.
[00:28:24] I'm repenting.
[00:28:24] I'm coming to terms rather than having to have the world's circumstances.
[00:28:28] Having to have deeper consequences for continued unrepentant sin.
[00:28:32] Because that's what this is.
[00:28:34] This is not merely a defect.
[00:28:35] It's not merely a problem and a weakness.
[00:28:40] Insecurity and the effects of insecurity.
[00:28:42] Some of the is sinful.
[00:28:44] And sin always comes with a consequence.
[00:28:48] Or as the Bible says, the wages of sin is death.
[00:28:51] And sometimes that is death of a ministry.
[00:28:54] It's death of relationship.
[00:28:56] It's death of effectiveness.
[00:28:58] It's death of respect.
[00:29:00] Respect you.
[00:29:02] And the deceptiveness of this is that people still come to church.
[00:29:09] Your team still serves with you.
[00:29:11] They're still, but from different motives than what you would really want.
[00:29:16] Their motives are, you know, the people come to church because one, they probably don't know the truth.
[00:29:21] But two, they just want to hear from the Lord.
[00:29:23] This is your home church or this is where relationships are.
[00:29:25] And people, they stick around and they stick around because this is also where God calls them.
[00:29:32] And maybe they haven't found another place yet or they haven't found another job and they need their paycheck.
[00:29:37] And so there's a piece of, I'll put up with this, but I really, I'm planning my exit.
[00:29:41] And it's, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:29:44] We want to walk in the light, see us in the light.
[00:29:46] We want to grow.
[00:29:48] We want to deal death blows to the areas of insecurity because it makes us unstable.
[00:29:54] Stable in the confidence, like you said in the beginning, Bob, the confidence of our identity in Christ.
[00:29:59] That's what we want.
[00:30:01] We want to walk in our identity of who God's made us.
[00:30:04] And we're just a servant.
[00:30:05] That's our identity.
[00:30:06] We're no big shot.
[00:30:08] We're no, we have no super self-importance.
[00:30:11] We're servants.
[00:30:12] The way up in God's kingdom is always down.
[00:30:15] And if our savior, the Messiah of the world died to himself and presented himself to the cross willingly, how much more are we to follow in his footsteps?
[00:30:26] So thanks again, Bob, for being with me today.
[00:30:28] We are coming up to an end of yet another episode.
[00:30:32] The topic was insecurity.
[00:30:33] If you have any feedback on that, we'd love to hear from you.
[00:30:37] Text us 720-608-0012, 720-608-0012.
[00:30:46] You can text there.
[00:30:47] You can leave a voicemail there.
[00:30:48] You can also email ed at edtaylor.org, ed at edtaylor.org.
[00:30:54] We want you to leave a review if it's positive because it helps get the word out on the podcast.
[00:31:01] It helps tell when you share it on social media, people really do click it.
[00:31:05] They do listen.
[00:31:06] And then they start listening to the archives and we're just watching our audience continue to grow.
[00:31:11] So thank you for that.
[00:31:13] This is the Lead to Serve podcast.
[00:31:15] We'll be posting another episode next week.
[00:31:18] So stay tuned.
[00:31:19] The topic next week will be a good one.
[00:31:22] And it'll be something to challenge your thinking.
[00:31:25] It's one of those that we're going to talk out loud.
[00:31:27] Remember, we don't script this.
[00:31:29] We don't sit down and read scripts.
[00:31:31] We're talking out loud, dialoguing, discerning the Lord's heart on matters.
[00:31:36] And we'd love to hear your point of view.
[00:31:38] So God bless you guys.
[00:31:39] Until next time, the Lord bless you, keep you, and encourage you.
[00:31:44] Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor.
[00:31:49] A leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.
[00:31:52] If you have a leadership question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to Serve podcast,
[00:31:57] please email it to pastored at calvaryco.church.
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[00:32:07] Thanks again for joining us.
[00:32:09] And we'll see you next time right here on the Lead to Serve podcast.
