604. Saying the Hard Things

[00:00:04] Here's Ed Taylor with today's episode of Lead2Serve, a leadership podcast.

[00:00:10] Hey everyone, welcome again to another episode of the Lead2Serve podcast. You're right in the beginning of Season 6.

[00:00:20] My name is Ed Taylor. I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:00:26] I'm your host for the podcast as for another season we have Pastor Bob Claykamp joining us. Welcome again, Bob.

[00:00:36] Yeah, it's a privilege to be here.

[00:00:37] Glad you're here. That was one of the number one feedbacks for the podcast when we first started it that more and more people wanted to hear a dialogue.

[00:00:45] And we drew you in and the feedback with our dialogue has been so good. Grateful for everyone that sends us a note, sends us a text message, leaves us a voicemail, puts a good review on the podcast, helps us to improve and grow, gives us ideas for topics.

[00:01:04] We would love to hear what your ideas for a topic. What would you like for us to say and talk about?

[00:01:11] What we're thinking when we put this podcast together is that you're in the office with us.

[00:01:17] We're actually in a studio, but the dialogue and discussion is a lot like how we talk at staff meeting or when we're talking about different topics or we have a pastor's meeting and a topic comes up, we just talk about it.

[00:01:30] And we are talking live. We're talking out loud. This podcast is not scripted. We're not reading off a script, although we do have a few things jotted down like scriptures or ideas that we have thought ahead a little bit of what the topic will be, but we're not scripting it because we want to think out loud and grow together as well.

[00:01:51] We want to bounce ideas off each other, growing in grace. And we want to appreciate again, your response. And remember that the goal that we have is to help you grow in your servant leadership so that you'll glorify God in all that you do, that you'll remember that it's Jesus who is our sufficiency.

[00:02:09] And the better you serve, the better you lead and the better you lead, the better you serve.

[00:02:13] We have Pastor Bob Claykamp, Pastor Ed Taylor, and a brand new topic. The topic today, kind of building on our last episode, is saying the hard things. And I think last season we had a topic of doing the hard things, which would include this.

[00:02:34] But saying the hard things is specific to a passage of scripture that Paul shared with the Ephesian church in Ephesians 4, verse 15, speaking the truth in love that you might grow up in all things unto him who is the head in Christ.

[00:02:55] A very important part of your spiritual effectiveness as a church planter is that you not only are honest, as we saw last time, but that you say the hard things.

[00:03:18] You speak the truth in love. The importance of speaking the truth in love can't be overemphasized because we have been put in a position to say things.

[00:03:31] You think about the role that you have, for example, as a parent. The role that you begin with as a parent of your children is to say things to your kids that other people won't say or say things to your kids that other people don't have the authority to say.

[00:03:48] Or to say things to your kids that they will only receive from you. And if you don't tell your kids the truth and share the hard things, then you may open them up to never hearing it and making serious mistakes or a whole host of things.

[00:04:06] But Bob, in your initial thoughts of, you know, when you're looking at this topic and saying the hard things, what do you think?

[00:04:15] Well, I think that it's not just what you say. It includes how you say it. Because even though you might be speaking what's true, how you're saying it could cancel out the receptability of the person you're trying to help.

[00:04:33] Unless your goal isn't really to help, but it is to hammer them into the ground.

[00:04:39] And so, I mean, there's a lot of things that go along with this. It's not just trying to correct them, but it's how you do it.

[00:04:48] But Proverbs has a lot to say about that. Proverbs chapter 27, verse 5. I'm reading from the New Living.

[00:04:55] An open rebuke is better than hidden love. Wounds from a sincere friend are better than many kisses of an enemy.

[00:05:05] And so we got two pieces I think we should talk about. First of all, saying hard things, and then what we say, and then secondly, how we say it.

[00:05:14] Knowing the topics ahead of time, thinking them through, can you think of an example recently or at all in your life where you had to say something hard and how you felt about it?

[00:05:27] Did you delay it? Did you avoid it altogether? What are you thinking?

[00:05:38] Well, first of all, when you find out that something needs to be dealt with, I can have a tendency just to react.

[00:05:50] And I want to, unless it's some kind of a situation where there's a life that's in danger or something,

[00:06:02] I try to wait 24 hours just to let myself settle down and not deal with it out of an emotionally charged,

[00:06:13] being frustrated, angry, or whatever else, because that will come out more than what I'm trying to correct.

[00:06:22] And I've been guilty of that. I mean, I have responded, knee-jerk reaction, and it never goes well.

[00:06:32] Absolutely never goes well. And the desire to help gets overruled by how I did it.

[00:06:40] And then that's when you have to go and own it. I mean, sometimes in your marriage, you have to say the hard things,

[00:06:50] but how you say it, when you say it, like you had mentioned as another side of this, is also so important.

[00:06:57] And also doing it face-to-face and not through an email, not through a text, but face-to-face.

[00:07:06] I mean, that's what Jesus says in Matthew 18, to do.

[00:07:10] And so, I guess you learn from your mistakes.

[00:07:15] You try to be a little more refined and mature in dealing with it,

[00:07:21] but you're still called to step up, because accountability is part of the body of Christ.

[00:07:26] Yes. First thing I think of when I think of saying the hard things is, I don't like doing it.

[00:07:32] I see my role in the body of Christ over the years more exhortive in my ministry, more direct.

[00:07:40] It's something that our family is very much, our family, my wife, my three kids, we've always been direct.

[00:07:47] We can handle it. We may not like it, but we can handle it.

[00:07:51] We want to hear the truth.

[00:07:53] It might end up being a serious discussion that might end up being a severe discussion,

[00:08:03] but we appreciate directness. We want to deal with things.

[00:08:07] While I can't say that we're never passive-aggressive, that is not a characteristic of our family, our home.

[00:08:14] We're not passive-aggressive in a very general sense.

[00:08:18] We like direct. Just tell me how it is. Don't beat around the bush.

[00:08:22] But I don't like doing it, because that's how God uses me in the body of Christ.

[00:08:25] He uses me in the body of Christ, just like he does at home.

[00:08:29] Bob, if you ask me my opinion about something, then I'm expecting you,

[00:08:34] I'm expecting you to already process in your mind that when I come to Ed,

[00:08:38] I know he's going to give me exactly what I need to hear, even if I don't want to hear it,

[00:08:43] or he's going to, I trust him, but I want to hear it.

[00:08:46] And even somebody coming to me might say,

[00:08:49] I don't want to hear it, but I really do need to hear it, so I will, and I'll wrestle.

[00:08:52] And for me, you've got to understand, if you're coming to me, I'm also at the same,

[00:08:55] I'm probably thinking the same thing you're thinking.

[00:08:57] I really don't want to say it.

[00:08:59] I really don't want to be the vessel, because now I'm going to open myself up.

[00:09:02] Now you're going to be mad at me.

[00:09:04] Now you're going to disagree with me.

[00:09:06] Now we were having lunch together yesterday, talking about the Dodgers, laughing and enjoying,

[00:09:13] but now you've asked me for my opinion or my biblical insight,

[00:09:17] and I already know you're not going to agree with me, or it's going to be hard to receive.

[00:09:22] And so my thought is, I just don't like doing it.

[00:09:25] And I don't mean I don't like doing it as unto the Lord.

[00:09:27] I love being used by God, but I wish sometimes that there is more,

[00:09:36] because there's other people in my life, like I have people in my life too.

[00:09:39] I know they'll give me straight shooters, boom, boom, boom, they'll give it to me.

[00:09:42] But I also, I prefer to have people that are encouraging, that I'm going to laugh with,

[00:09:47] that we're going to joke around, we're going to goof off.

[00:09:49] And so I think in telling the truth, this is an area, as we've said in a previous episode,

[00:09:54] that I value highly because of my past, I really do want to tell the truth.

[00:09:59] I want to improve my, the way I do it, of course, but I definitely want you to know,

[00:10:03] I don't want you leaving my presence, wondering what I think, wondering, like,

[00:10:09] I don't want, if you walk to me with mud on your shoes, I don't want to add more mud.

[00:10:13] I don't want you to walk into the mud with me.

[00:10:15] And like, now I'm stuck.

[00:10:17] I want to unstuck you.

[00:10:19] But the reality of helping you get unstuck is the truth might be painful and it might hurt.

[00:10:24] So my first thought is like, ah, yeah, this is how God uses me in the body of Christ.

[00:10:30] And it is not always well-received.

[00:10:33] Well, you did this with me about a year and a half ago.

[00:10:36] Oh.

[00:10:39] And you spoke some hard things to me because we were getting pretty wrapped up in our situation.

[00:10:45] And then I spoke a hard word to you.

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:48] And that freed me.

[00:10:50] Yes.

[00:10:50] To really take it and receive your hard word, actually.

[00:10:55] Did I receive your hard word?

[00:10:57] Yes, you did.

[00:10:58] I don't remember what it was.

[00:11:00] Okay.

[00:11:00] Is it podcast worthy or should we wait till afterwards?

[00:11:03] No, it's fine.

[00:11:04] Yeah.

[00:11:04] Well, actually, yeah, it is podcast worthy.

[00:11:06] Tell me.

[00:11:07] Yeah.

[00:11:07] I asked you, do you trust me?

[00:11:10] Yes.

[00:11:10] That I can discern the voice of the Lord in this matter.

[00:11:14] Yeah.

[00:11:14] You were stern, too.

[00:11:16] I could see a...

[00:11:17] Oh, I know.

[00:11:18] There was a...

[00:11:19] Now I remember.

[00:11:20] Thanks for reminding me.

[00:11:21] Because it was a hard word.

[00:11:23] And that really is really good for the topic today because I enter into that discussion with you

[00:11:32] with authority that the Lord's given to me, but also respect.

[00:11:38] Like, it is hard.

[00:11:40] You have more experience than I do.

[00:11:43] You are older than me.

[00:11:45] So you're as an elder to me or as a father to me.

[00:11:49] Like, to have to step into that.

[00:11:51] And I'm confident.

[00:11:52] I was confident in what I was sharing and I was confident.

[00:11:56] But you might have felt that I don't trust you because you may come to a different conclusion

[00:12:03] than the word I have and then we'll have to deal with that.

[00:12:05] Like, because that's really what it was.

[00:12:07] Like, do you really trust me?

[00:12:08] Not for a moment did I not trust you, but my delivery may have sent that message to you.

[00:12:16] That, hey, I...

[00:12:18] Or, you know, remembering the situation now that maybe it could feel like because of the sternness of my word with you

[00:12:27] that you could feel like I was trying to take authority over you when I just wanted to help you.

[00:12:33] And I remember, I remember, I'm a...

[00:12:35] I have...

[00:12:36] Although grief has messed it up a little bit, I have a photographic memory.

[00:12:41] And when you said that, I remember your face and your...

[00:12:44] I remember it like it was yesterday once you said it.

[00:12:46] Like, yeah, he was...

[00:12:47] That was stern Bob.

[00:12:50] The Lord was able.

[00:12:51] So he was able to work it out.

[00:12:53] Like, he led you into the decision that you needed to make and how you needed to make it.

[00:12:58] Yeah.

[00:12:59] Yeah, that was...

[00:13:00] That was hard.

[00:13:01] I don't...

[00:13:01] I don't prefer doing that, personally.

[00:13:04] I wish I could be the joker, happy...

[00:13:07] Yeah, it's uncomfortable.

[00:13:09] Yeah, it is uncomfortable.

[00:13:09] It is.

[00:13:10] And that's where we can't let comfort and convenience be the gates that we live by all the time.

[00:13:17] We just have to...

[00:13:20] Obedience is what God has called us to do with his voice to us.

[00:13:26] I mean, we had a situation in another setting where one family was pretty upset with my wife.

[00:13:34] And they chose after service to take her upstairs and just rail on her, just rail on her for like half an hour.

[00:13:43] I didn't even know where she was.

[00:13:44] And I didn't know what was going on.

[00:13:45] But I knew afterwards because she came down crying and you can't...

[00:13:51] You know, just overwhelmed.

[00:13:53] And then I had to deal with my own reaction.

[00:13:57] And yeah, it's...

[00:14:00] Life is that way.

[00:14:01] I mean, we're being worked on.

[00:14:03] And this is the way of the Lord.

[00:14:05] And we're remembering this, especially in the place of servanthood.

[00:14:09] You want to be a better servant.

[00:14:10] You want to be more useful in someone's life.

[00:14:12] These are key elements that are important.

[00:14:15] And they go contrary, especially for those of us that were saved a little bit later in life, raised in the world.

[00:14:23] I mean, until I was 23, I was completely 100% sold out to whatever philosophy of the world was there.

[00:14:34] Or there's a lot to choose from.

[00:14:36] But I would choose whatever it was that would most suit me in the moment.

[00:14:40] I did not know of nor choose the way of Christ.

[00:14:44] This is contrary to our flesh.

[00:14:47] I was speaking with a brother recently about the flesh.

[00:14:50] He was talking about a situation.

[00:14:51] And I said, it might make it easier if we use biblical terms.

[00:14:55] Instead of the term you're using right now, let's just call it what it is.

[00:14:59] Your flesh.

[00:14:59] It's your flesh.

[00:15:00] And flesh doesn't necessarily mean completely rebellious sin.

[00:15:07] A brother, I don't recommend this author anymore, but one of the phrases that...

[00:15:11] Because he went off and became...

[00:15:12] Anybody that gets involved in the movement of grace, they have a tendency to go overboard.

[00:15:17] And this brother went overboard to a place of universalism now.

[00:15:20] He was great in the season that I read of him on the topic of grace, and I gleaned some things.

[00:15:27] But I can't recommend it anymore because he is a universalist.

[00:15:31] And it's like, why did you...

[00:15:33] You should have let the Bible be your guardrails, not your own philosophy.

[00:15:36] Different podcast, again, for another time.

[00:15:39] But he gave a definition that I will use forever to help give an angle on the flesh.

[00:15:46] And he defined the flesh as this.

[00:15:48] Your old sinful habit patterns.

[00:15:51] That is a helpful tool in discerning certain behaviors in your life.

[00:15:58] And if you were guilt-ridden and beat yourself up all the time, and you carry that into your spiritual born-again experience,

[00:16:08] that's a fleshly response.

[00:16:10] Because God has dealt with that guilt.

[00:16:12] He has forgiven you.

[00:16:13] He says there's no condemnation.

[00:16:15] So you're choosing to not believe God's word.

[00:16:19] You're stuck in the flesh.

[00:16:22] And there's only one remedy.

[00:16:23] You make no provision for the flesh.

[00:16:25] You deal with death blow to the flesh.

[00:16:27] You walk in the spirit.

[00:16:37] How in Ephesians 4, how God has given us pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints,

[00:16:43] for the work of the ministry, edifying of the body of Christ.

[00:16:46] We're coming to the unity of the faith, the knowledge of the Son of God,

[00:16:51] the perfect man, to the measure and the stature of the fullness of Christ,

[00:16:57] so that we're not any longer tossed to and fro as kids by every wind of doctrine.

[00:17:03] Then we're speaking the truth in love.

[00:17:05] This is in contrast to who we were.

[00:17:08] That's why it becomes so hard, because the essence of, as I'm thinking this out loud,

[00:17:13] is here's my problem.

[00:17:15] If I think about myself, I will waver.

[00:17:18] What will you think about me, Bob?

[00:17:19] I mean, now that you bring back that situation, it was just a dilemma.

[00:17:25] It wasn't even a big sinful situation.

[00:17:27] It was just a dilemma, season of life, season in your life.

[00:17:30] It wasn't anything sinful.

[00:17:32] We don't give the details of it, but I remember it.

[00:17:35] It wasn't like, okay, Bob, begging you not to sin.

[00:17:38] It wasn't that.

[00:17:40] However, it was hard enough where, okay, Bob, you asked for me.

[00:17:44] You asked for my insight.

[00:17:45] You trust me on it.

[00:17:46] I'm going to share it with you.

[00:17:47] But you could be offended at what I say, that this may be a turning point.

[00:17:54] It could be a negative turning point in our life.

[00:17:58] It could be a very positive.

[00:17:59] But because people like to put people in categories, optimist, pessimist.

[00:18:07] If I was given those two choices, I would say I'm an optimist.

[00:18:11] Marie would say I'm a pessimist, which is where you create a third category.

[00:18:17] And I would say, no, no, no, honey.

[00:18:19] I'm a realist.

[00:18:21] Which probably leans toward pessimism, pragmatism.

[00:18:24] So that when I assess a situation, if I only assess it in my own wisdom, I'm like, you know what?

[00:18:30] I'd rather, why is he asking me?

[00:18:32] Because if I tell him something hard, he's going to get mad at me.

[00:18:35] And now, you know, it's going to end up.

[00:18:37] Now I know your character.

[00:18:37] I know it's not going to happen.

[00:18:40] Because I've watched you.

[00:18:41] And I've seen you.

[00:18:43] I've observed your life.

[00:18:44] But the enemy, he has devices.

[00:18:46] He has schemes.

[00:18:48] And I would just rather, I just want a peaceful life.

[00:18:52] I don't want more problems and more people mad at me.

[00:18:56] And it's just a real emotion for me.

[00:18:59] Even in my marriage, like if Marie and I are in a good season and like, why would I want her mad at me?

[00:19:06] Or upset?

[00:19:07] Or why would I want to say, like, who in the world would want that?

[00:19:11] That's human.

[00:19:12] So if I think of myself, I'm going to shy away from this.

[00:19:17] But if I think of the Lord and I think of you and I do unto others, as Jesus said, the way I want you, then I am going to tell you the truth.

[00:19:28] Which leads us, and we have a few minutes left in the episode, to segue into the how.

[00:19:35] That's important.

[00:19:36] And so the reality of, I'll briefly take us back to the discussion.

[00:19:42] When I'm in a discussion with you, in particular, with Bob and Jeannie, I'm entering in with respect.

[00:19:50] And I'm entering in valuing what the Bible says.

[00:19:53] You're my elder.

[00:19:55] You are, obviously, you're a man of God.

[00:19:58] You're my elder.

[00:19:59] I want to do it with respect.

[00:20:01] I want to do it with just respect, just on the human realm, on the spiritual realm.

[00:20:07] But also, like, I know who I am.

[00:20:10] I mean, I'm not anything special.

[00:20:12] I'm not any better than you.

[00:20:13] You're not any better than me.

[00:20:14] But I want to be able to do it.

[00:20:16] And one of the tools, just before you get to yours, is one of the tools that I have developed over the years.

[00:20:22] And I do it when I do the live radio broadcast.

[00:20:25] I do it after service when I'm sensing something.

[00:20:27] Something is I will look you in the eye and I say, are you okay if I say something really hard to you?

[00:20:34] Are you ready?

[00:20:35] And that gives you the option if you want to keep going.

[00:20:37] And if you say yes, then directly and indirectly, you've invited me to say the hard thing because I told you it's going to be hard.

[00:20:45] That has proven to be very, very helpful.

[00:20:48] Because on one occasion, at least one time, I can remember somebody saying, no, I don't want to hear that right now.

[00:20:53] Okay?

[00:20:54] Yeah.

[00:20:54] Well, understand, I'm here.

[00:20:56] And if this isn't the right timing, because it doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to hear it at all.

[00:21:01] I'm not reading anything into it except in that moment.

[00:21:04] No, they don't want to hear it.

[00:21:06] And it's probably not the right timing for them.

[00:21:08] So just in some of the ways that you think delivering over the years, how?

[00:21:13] How do you deliver hard things?

[00:21:15] Well, you do it face-to-face.

[00:21:17] And you do it in a setting that's not building up like a group of people, you know, where you say, let's get together and talk about this.

[00:21:29] And you've got a whole thing set up where you've got a whole crew of people in the room waiting for that person to come in.

[00:21:35] I mean, it's in love is the issue.

[00:21:39] Love is considering, how can I help them receive this in the best way?

[00:21:46] And, I mean, it could not be the best way, but at the time you think it's the best way.

[00:21:53] But it comes back to Galatians 6, verses 1 through 5.

[00:21:58] In the New Living, it says,

[00:21:59] Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly, and the New King James says spiritual, should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path.

[00:22:17] Be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself.

[00:22:20] Share each other's burdens, and in this way, obey the law of Christ, which is the law of love.

[00:22:27] If you think you are too important to help someone, you are only fooling yourself.

[00:22:32] You are not that important.

[00:22:36] Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done before the Lord.

[00:22:44] And you won't need to compare yourself to anyone else, for we are each responsible for our own conduct.

[00:22:51] Yeah, that's so good.

[00:22:52] I was thinking of 1 Corinthians 13 from the New Living.

[00:22:57] If we're going to do it in love, timing is always important.

[00:23:02] Face-to-face, if it's an offensive thing or it's a hard thing.

[00:23:05] Sometimes I have found that somebody will text me something that stirs up, and a face-to-face is impossible, so I just pick up the phone.

[00:23:15] There's a lot more.

[00:23:16] Texting can be used for one thing.

[00:23:18] Email a little bit more.

[00:23:20] Phone call a little bit more.

[00:23:21] Face-to-face is always the best.

[00:23:24] It's always the best, but it's not always available.

[00:23:27] I think that the motive is most important.

[00:23:30] And texting an email is so limited in that as you're crafting it, you have an inward dialogue that you're answering while you're crafting, especially the hard emails, but you're making up the other side.

[00:23:43] You don't want to answer something that you make up.

[00:23:46] You want to be able to talk about it.

[00:23:48] And you want to be able to look at it.

[00:23:51] And face-to-face gives me your eyes, gives me your body, it gives me all that your presence, you can sense the presence of the Holy Spirit.

[00:24:01] You can sense whether you receive something from me, and I need to backtrack, or I need to ask, okay, Bob, I sense we're uncomfortable right now.

[00:24:10] Can I say something hard to you?

[00:24:11] No, I don't want to hear one more hard thing.

[00:24:12] Okay, well, let's pray, and let's do it another time.

[00:24:15] That's hard to pick up.

[00:24:16] You can get it in the tone of voice on the phone sometimes, but with the way that the delay is on cell phones, sometimes you talk over each other, and you're not able to let them finish the last two thoughts or two words because the delay didn't work, or it makes it hard.

[00:24:36] Well, face-to-face, you can also see the muscles clench on the side of the face.

[00:24:42] Or the rolling of the eyes.

[00:24:44] Oh my gosh.

[00:24:45] The rolling of the eyes is never fun.

[00:24:48] But in love, and the essence for me, even though I prefer not to do it, I will do it because it's a matter of obedience.

[00:24:56] And it's also a matter, not just in love how, but in love because.

[00:25:02] Because I love you.

[00:25:03] Like, I love the Lord with all my heart, soul, and mind.

[00:25:06] He's put me in this place.

[00:25:07] He's brought you in my life.

[00:25:09] I get to tell you the truth in love, and I want to be the best at it.

[00:25:14] I want because I have your best interests at heart.

[00:25:16] I'm not just doing it because I have to do it, and I'm not just doing it so I can get it over.

[00:25:20] I'm doing it because God has put me in your life so that I can help you.

[00:25:24] In converse, God's put you in my life.

[00:25:27] So now I need to receive in love, which is a whole different side.

[00:25:30] But for us, if we're going to serve well, as we've spoken in a previous episode, we need to be honest.

[00:25:35] We need to be real.

[00:25:36] We need to be ourselves.

[00:25:37] But then we also have to do it, say the hard thing.

[00:25:42] And 1 Corinthians 13 says,

[00:25:45] Love is patient and kind.

[00:25:46] Love is not jealous or boastful or proud.

[00:25:50] Love is not rude.

[00:25:51] It does not demand its own way.

[00:25:53] It's not irritable.

[00:25:55] It keeps no record of wrong.

[00:25:57] It doesn't rejoice about injustice, but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.

[00:26:03] Love never gives up.

[00:26:05] Never loses faith.

[00:26:07] Faith is always hopeful and endures through every circumstance.

[00:26:13] The church will be so much healthier.

[00:26:15] Your own personal ministry will be much healthier if you just say the hard things.

[00:26:20] Say the hard things.

[00:26:21] And the way you do it, sometimes my wife will say the hard things without saying anything at all.

[00:26:27] Not too long ago, on two occasions.

[00:26:31] Because she can get closer to me than most people can.

[00:26:34] Than anybody can, quite frankly.

[00:26:36] I mean, she can get closer than anybody can.

[00:26:38] And I don't know where we were.

[00:26:40] I'm trying to think where we were.

[00:26:41] But she just handed me a mint.

[00:26:45] She wasn't, she didn't say anything.

[00:26:47] Just handed me a mint.

[00:26:48] And I'm like, okay.

[00:26:50] She might be doing this out of the benevolence of her heart and being kind.

[00:26:55] And she only has a couple pieces left.

[00:26:56] And she wants me to share with her minty gum.

[00:27:01] Or I have bad breath.

[00:27:04] And she can sense it.

[00:27:05] And because she did it twice, I'm pretty confident that it was a bad breath day.

[00:27:12] And she was sharing, she was doing the hard thing.

[00:27:15] She was helping me out without having to say anything, without ever doing anything.

[00:27:19] Just coming alongside to help me out.

[00:27:21] Because it is out of relationship.

[00:27:25] And that is something we need to take into consideration as well.

[00:27:30] How we deliver the truth will be directly related to how much equity we have in someone's life.

[00:27:36] How much do they trust us?

[00:27:37] How much, like how close are we?

[00:27:41] If the closer the relationship, the more in depth that you can take the truth and deliver it.

[00:27:49] The farther they are, you may not have the equity to take them that deep.

[00:27:54] And maybe sharing the truth of them is giving them a series of questions to ask.

[00:27:58] So that they can be open to the work of the Holy Spirit in that way.

[00:28:02] Because the Holy Spirit ultimately is the one that's going to reveal the truth to them anyway.

[00:28:05] He's the spirit of the truth, going to lead them into all truth.

[00:28:08] The Bible says we're just a tool.

[00:28:10] But sometimes in the conversation directly related, we can deliver the truth immediately and it can be received.

[00:28:18] And all that's necessary now is the Holy Spirit confirms it.

[00:28:23] Or even better, you know, Bob goes out on a walk on Tuesday, talks to Ed on Wednesday.

[00:28:29] And Ed only confirms the spirit of God in Ed confirms what God already said Tuesday morning.

[00:28:33] And the reality of saying the hard things.

[00:28:36] Okay, that's the end of our episode again today.

[00:28:40] We've come to the end.

[00:28:41] We want to keep these in.

[00:28:43] We want to honor your time.

[00:28:45] We want to honor the time limit.

[00:28:46] So we could go on and on.

[00:28:48] This is a great conversation.

[00:28:49] Maybe you want to add to the conversation.

[00:28:51] You can always go to the website, edtaylor.org.

[00:28:56] We post these episodes with a summary after the fact.

[00:29:02] And you can comment on the blog post if you want.

[00:29:05] You can re-listen to it.

[00:29:06] The feedback that we really want is if the podcast is blessing you, leave a favorable review.

[00:29:12] It helps a lot in its rankings, which then help a lot in getting it before fresh eyes.

[00:29:20] People looking for this type of podcast that don't know anything about us.

[00:29:23] And for those of you that have joined the Lead to Serve team and family just recently,

[00:29:28] because of reviews and because the algorithms, welcome.

[00:29:31] I am glad that you're with us.

[00:29:33] We are in season six of Lead to Serve.

[00:29:37] And we want to help you grow in your servanthood and leadership.

[00:29:40] The topic today was saying the hard things.

[00:29:42] And we're always open to your feedback, show ideas.

[00:29:46] You can text us 720-608-0012, 720-608-0012.

[00:29:55] Or you can email ed at edtaylor.org.

[00:30:00] Ed at edtaylor.org.

[00:30:02] Pastor Bob Claycamp, he also has a website.

[00:30:05] You can contact him through his personal website, bobclaycamp.com.

[00:30:10] We are here at Calvary Church, and you want anything to do with our church here,

[00:30:14] you can download the app that we have.

[00:30:16] Just put my name in your search bar of the app store, Ed Taylor, and the church app will pop up.

[00:30:23] Our website is calvaryco.church.

[00:30:26] But we'd love to develop a relationship with you, mentoring, teaching, equipping.

[00:30:31] That's our heart.

[00:30:32] We feel an obligation here at Calvary to pour into other churches, to pour into those that want to serve the Lord,

[00:30:39] to pour into pastors.

[00:30:41] And we are here to serve you any way that we can.

[00:30:44] We have a team of pastors here that are here to help, serve, pray, encourage, support, fill a pulpit if you need it,

[00:30:53] if we can do it, and so much more.

[00:30:56] And we would love to connect with you.

[00:30:59] This is, again, the Lead to Serve podcast.

[00:31:01] We'll post another episode next week.

[00:31:04] Until then, the Lord bless you, encourage you, and strengthen you.

[00:31:08] Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor,

[00:31:13] a leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:31:17] If you have a leadership question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to Serve podcast,

[00:31:21] please email it to pastored at calvaryco.church.

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[00:31:32] Thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you next time right here on the Lead to Serve podcast.