603. Honesty is A Key to Effective Leadership

[00:00:05] Calvary Church presents Lead2Serve, a leadership podcast with Ed Taylor.

[00:00:10] Welcome again to another episode of the Lead2Serve podcast. My name is Ed Taylor. I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church.

[00:00:18] In studio with me today and for this season is Pastor Bob Klekamp. I'll be your host as we talk about different topics that relate to servanthood,

[00:00:30] that relate to serving in the world, serving at work, serving at home, serving in the church.

[00:00:38] The response to our podcast, I want to thank you guys for your response, for your texts, for your voicemails, for your emails.

[00:00:46] We are grateful to connect with you, whether you're local, around the country, even around the world.

[00:00:53] And you know our goal. Our goal is to invite you into discussions that we have here all the time.

[00:00:58] That's really what these aren't scripted, even though we do have topics and we have written a few notes down.

[00:01:04] They're not scripted. These are real discussions happening in real time as if you're in the office with us or you're in the studio with us.

[00:01:13] You could be in the empty chair that's right in front of me and have your own feedback.

[00:01:18] And that's how I want you to approach these podcasts.

[00:01:20] You're stepping, you're dropping in to a discussion.

[00:01:25] Pastor Bob has been walking with the Lord for over 50 years.

[00:01:29] I've been walking with the Lord for over 30 years.

[00:01:32] So there's 80 years of life with Jesus that we get to tap into.

[00:01:38] A lot of successes, probably even more failures.

[00:01:41] And then there's ministry experience.

[00:01:43] I've been pastoring the church here for 25 years.

[00:01:48] Pastor Bob, what would you say your ministry experience?

[00:01:51] 30 years? 40 years?

[00:01:53] Probably. Well, if you don't count the youth ministry years, it's since 1981.

[00:02:02] Well, I'd count them all. So you count all those years.

[00:02:05] So over 50 years.

[00:02:06] Bob has more years of ministry than we are able to count.

[00:02:09] So we can add that and we get to tap into that.

[00:02:12] And I've been able to serve with him here on our team for the last few years.

[00:02:16] And he's the real deal.

[00:02:17] I mean, that's how you walk away from Pastor Bob and Jeannie and just the real deal.

[00:02:23] And our goal is to help you learn through our discussions as we're just talking through things,

[00:02:31] how to be a better servant of the Lord.

[00:02:33] So that will make you a better leader.

[00:02:35] And as you lead well, you serve well.

[00:02:37] And they're both very intertwined.

[00:02:39] But the better servant you are, the better leader you'll become as whatever topics.

[00:02:45] Maybe you have a topic we want to address that you want us to address.

[00:02:49] That it's just something like if you were in the room, this is what you would ask us.

[00:02:53] Maybe like if you're at a conference and you get a Q&A.

[00:02:56] Well, we can be a Q&A as well and just talk things through.

[00:02:59] You may or may not be satisfied with the answer, but we'll talk it through.

[00:03:02] And we'll give you our perspective on it.

[00:03:06] But we have Pastor Bob Clayham.

[00:03:07] My name is Ed Taylor.

[00:03:08] We're jumping into episode number three.

[00:03:12] And the topic today is telling truth.

[00:03:18] Telling the truth.

[00:03:19] How important it is to tell the truth.

[00:03:20] I guess we could also say the topic today is don't be a stinking liar.

[00:03:26] Don't lie.

[00:03:28] Lying is one of those sins that has been approved or overlooked in the church today.

[00:03:36] And we don't pay as much attention to dishonesty as I believe the Bible does.

[00:03:42] How important it is that we tell the truth.

[00:03:46] I think of the origin of lies, Bob, when I look at dishonesty in my own life.

[00:03:54] This is an area where God has really apprehended me.

[00:03:59] I'm not saying I tell perfect truth all the time.

[00:04:03] I'm sure God always brings about improvement for me.

[00:04:07] But before I got saved, I was such a liar.

[00:04:12] I was always spinning stories to get about whatever I needed from somewhere or whatever I wanted.

[00:04:21] And lying and manipulation, they went together as an unbeliever in my life.

[00:04:26] So that this was an area like alcohol and drugs that God wanted to deal a death blow to because he doesn't want any of it.

[00:04:35] Because of my past, he doesn't want any of that in my life.

[00:04:39] You don't have to have a past of being dishonest like me to have this be relevant.

[00:04:44] But God has really dealt with this.

[00:04:46] And then when you start reading the Bible and you find out, ah, I can see now why.

[00:04:51] First of all, I can see why he would take away alcohol and drugs from me.

[00:04:54] Not only because I saw the difficulties and the brokenness and how many people I heard and how much damage I did to society.

[00:05:01] That's obvious.

[00:05:02] But the Bible.

[00:05:03] The Bible is the reason why he took it away.

[00:05:04] Do not be drunk with wine, which is in excess, but be filled with the Holy Spirit.

[00:05:10] Ed, for what I want in your life and how I want to use you, and it's true for every believer, but speaking my own personal experience, Ed, for what I have in your life, you're going to need the Spirit.

[00:05:19] That's just the bottom line.

[00:05:21] You're going to need to make room for the Holy Spirit to overwhelm your life.

[00:05:29] So dealing with that, but telling the truth is directly related to the origin of lies.

[00:05:35] What did Jesus say?

[00:05:36] John 8, verse 44.

[00:05:38] You are of your father, the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

[00:05:43] He was a murderer from the beginning, does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him.

[00:05:51] When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources because he's a liar and the father of it.

[00:05:59] That's the backdrop.

[00:06:01] And then Jesus gives the contrast because I tell the truth, you don't believe me.

[00:06:05] And lying puts us right at square in the hands of the devil.

[00:06:09] He's the origin of it.

[00:06:10] This is where he dwells.

[00:06:12] This is what he stands in.

[00:06:14] But what are your thoughts, Bob?

[00:06:16] Like initially lying.

[00:06:17] Have you ever had a problem with lying yourself?

[00:06:19] Yeah, I mean, it comes in.

[00:06:22] It comes in, especially if you've made a decision or a choice you don't want somebody to know about.

[00:06:28] Then you can spin it and you can create a false narrative.

[00:06:33] It can happen in your marriage.

[00:06:35] It can happen with your kids.

[00:06:37] And you don't approve of it when they lie to you, your children.

[00:06:42] And yet maybe they're learning it from you.

[00:06:45] And the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth by Jesus.

[00:06:51] And so God wants to work in the realm of truth.

[00:06:57] And if you're not being truthful, then his Spirit is going to work against you.

[00:07:05] Jesus said, and you'll know the truth and the truth will make you free.

[00:07:09] And there's freedom in just being a truthful person.

[00:07:13] Now, there's a...

[00:07:15] And you also have to speak the truth in love, which is another issue altogether.

[00:07:20] But right now, I think that when I look back on the times that I yielded to dishonesty or maybe something called half-truth,

[00:07:30] which is a full lie, it's because I was afraid of the consequences and didn't see that I was creating interest on top of the consequence.

[00:07:43] Yeah.

[00:07:43] This is such a deep topic.

[00:07:46] I have a lot of thoughts going through my mind all at the same time.

[00:07:50] I'll start with a brother that came up after service recently.

[00:07:54] He hasn't been here for a while.

[00:07:56] Years.

[00:07:56] I think seven years.

[00:07:58] And I recognized him, know who he is.

[00:08:00] Remember walking with him, some very difficult situations.

[00:08:04] And my counsel to him was to tell the truth.

[00:08:07] I remember my counsel to him is he needs to come clean.

[00:08:12] He needs to tell his wife what's going on and come to the realization that he needs to bring his marriage back into the light.

[00:08:20] Well, I didn't know all this, but he left the church.

[00:08:22] I knew that.

[00:08:23] But he had connected with another counselor at a church locally here.

[00:08:27] And through the counsel, that counselor, and this was paraphrased, counselor's name or anything, so I'm only taken for what the guy said.

[00:08:36] But I'm hoping it gets developed over time.

[00:08:39] But the counselor said that, he said, well, you know, because I told the brother to tell the truth, the counselor said, well, you know, I don't think you need to do that.

[00:08:48] Ed is just like that.

[00:08:49] Pastor Ed's like that.

[00:08:50] You need to leave that church and come here because that's bad counsel for you to tell the truth.

[00:08:56] And the brother said, he says, you were right, Ed.

[00:08:59] And you were right because it all came out a year later.

[00:09:02] And it came out with all the consequences and everything.

[00:09:06] And I, yeah, I mean, to counsel someone to tell the truth is not bad counsel.

[00:09:13] Now, how to tell the truth, when to tell the truth, to have somebody there with you, whatever it might be, that varies from place to place.

[00:09:22] But it's never good counsel to tell someone to lie.

[00:09:28] I don't understand that.

[00:09:30] Maybe one day I'll get introduced to this guy or gal.

[00:09:33] I don't know the counselor itself.

[00:09:35] Like, we'll be able to talk this through so I could hear their perspective.

[00:09:38] But the brother, like, like it's, he was living his marriage in a lie.

[00:09:43] And it was going to be, he had to, he had to carry the burden of this sin.

[00:09:48] And he made himself open to the condemnation of the enemy.

[00:09:52] He opened himself up to shame and undue guilt.

[00:09:57] And he was lopping, not only did he have, and I won't, I don't remember exactly what the sin was, but let's put it in time.

[00:10:04] Not only did he had, had he committed some kind of sin that his wife didn't know about in time, but every single day he has a new sin that he has to deal with.

[00:10:13] And that's dishonesty.

[00:10:15] And you have to do something with that.

[00:10:16] You can't confess it to the Lord because if you confess it to the Lord, the Lord's going to say, tell the truth.

[00:10:22] You're going, I don't want to tell the truth.

[00:10:23] So you're not confessing it to the Lord.

[00:10:25] What are you doing?

[00:10:25] You're stuffing it down.

[00:10:26] You're stuffing it down.

[00:10:28] You're ignoring it.

[00:10:29] You're hardening your heart.

[00:10:30] So by the, who knows how long it takes where you don't even think about it anymore.

[00:10:35] But then the Holy Spirit will break through and go, well, wait a minute.

[00:10:37] No, no, no, no.

[00:10:38] I don't want.

[00:10:39] And that creates such a difficult, so that's a thought, like tell the truth.

[00:10:44] It's important that you tell the truth, that you walk in the truth.

[00:10:48] It's interesting.

[00:10:50] Sociologists tell us that we see or hear 200 lies.

[00:10:55] Every day.

[00:10:57] Every day.

[00:10:58] 200 lies.

[00:10:58] We see or hear.

[00:10:59] We've even come to expect people to be dishonest at times where in our relationship with them,

[00:11:06] we just don't even expect to hear the truth.

[00:11:10] Politically, it comes out.

[00:11:13] In the business realm, it comes out.

[00:11:17] You know, even with this example, just trying to return the excess change a cashier might

[00:11:23] have given to us will cause some kind of response from them where there's so much thievery these

[00:11:29] days and it's getting so bad.

[00:11:31] But then they give you a couple extra dollars and you go, I'm sorry, but you gave me too much

[00:11:35] change.

[00:11:35] You're like, what?

[00:11:36] You're like, ah, you know, and that just that initial response.

[00:11:39] And then they did a survey of 31 colleges and universities revealed that 15,000 juniors

[00:11:46] and seniors that were interviewed were cheating.

[00:11:50] 63% of science majors were cheating.

[00:11:54] 74% of engineer majors were cheating.

[00:11:58] That's a scary one.

[00:12:00] And then 87% of business majors admitted to cheating.

[00:12:05] And out of everyone, 42% said that they felt like they had a good reason to cheat, lie, and be dishonest.

[00:12:16] I wonder if we were able to be hooked up to a lie detector and pastors, leaders, spiritual leaders,

[00:12:24] Christians were given the same survey, what the numbers would be like.

[00:12:28] Because there's a phrase, Bob, maybe you've heard it, maybe you haven't heard it, but

[00:12:32] maybe you're related to it, where it's said of pastors or leaders that they are evangelistically

[00:12:42] speaking.

[00:12:43] Have you heard that phrase before?

[00:12:44] Yeah.

[00:12:45] The phrase actually relates to the dishonesty in the statement that an evangelist was making.

[00:12:53] It's directly related to those evangelists that were traveling, doing tent ministry and describing

[00:13:00] to people how many people showed up to their event.

[00:13:05] And you might ask them, hey, Bob, you were pastoring in North Phoenix.

[00:13:10] How was attendance?

[00:13:11] And you say, Ed, you will not believe.

[00:13:13] Attendance was out.

[00:13:15] It was stratospheric.

[00:13:16] It was unbelievable.

[00:13:17] There were 5,000 people that came to that one Sunday morning.

[00:13:22] It was unbelievable.

[00:13:23] I was so amazed.

[00:13:24] It was so, I just couldn't believe it.

[00:13:27] And I'm like, but Bob, I haven't visited your church, but I remember you saying that the

[00:13:34] sanctuary only held 500.

[00:13:37] And so if the sanctuary only held 500 and you 5,000, how do you, well, it felt like 5,000,

[00:13:47] you know, like, like you would never do that.

[00:13:49] But like, we get that where you go to a pastor's conference or you're there and he's like, how

[00:13:53] are you doing?

[00:13:54] And you just feel this burden or people have a burden to over-exaggerate attendance figures,

[00:14:03] how God might be using them, how they're feeling in the, how are you doing, Bob?

[00:14:08] I'm doing fine.

[00:14:09] Really?

[00:14:10] And again, you don't have a problem with that either because you wear it on your face actually.

[00:14:15] And so you don't have a problem with that.

[00:14:16] You don't say I'm doing great when you're not doing great.

[00:14:19] But are those forms, I mean, I know they're forms and lies, but like, how do you view them?

[00:14:24] Well, it, it happens.

[00:14:27] I've been to enough pastor's conferences to know that there's great peer pressure to make

[00:14:35] yourself look successful because you don't want, you want people to think the best about

[00:14:39] you.

[00:14:40] You, it's all about identity and, and trying to find your identity and things that aren't

[00:14:45] helpful at all.

[00:14:46] And sometimes it's because, um, how you want to appear before others instead of how you

[00:14:56] are before the Lord.

[00:14:58] And there's the temptation to even, and, and, and it switches to not outright lie, but just

[00:15:06] only like not entirely being truthful and, and heading into a direction that, that goes,

[00:15:14] um, something completely irrelevant and to try to deflect even.

[00:15:20] So it becomes a habit.

[00:15:23] And if you don't deal with it, it grows, it, it stretches into other areas.

[00:15:28] Pretty soon you're doing it on your taxes.

[00:15:30] Pretty soon you're doing it, you know, with your, uh, in your marriage and you're doing secret

[00:15:35] things behind the scene.

[00:15:36] And it just, it, it's a living thing.

[00:15:39] Uh, but it's a, it's a cancer really.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:42] Living in the darkness is not living in the light and any little bit of darkness we let

[00:15:47] in, especially with our mouths.

[00:15:48] We're talking so much.

[00:15:50] I mean, the numbers are startling these 74% of engineers.

[00:15:55] Um, I mean, we were, I think of the building here, I'm not a construction guy or anything,

[00:15:59] but like we engineered the roof here to, in our sanctuary so that we don't have to have

[00:16:06] any pillars, but we trusted a guy, uh, or a team of people to engineer those trusses so

[00:16:14] that when people are here, they're safe.

[00:16:16] That's the essence of it, that they're safe, that we're thinking of others and walking in

[00:16:21] the light.

[00:16:21] But this whole issue of lying is not good.

[00:16:23] Uh, it's not good in leaders.

[00:16:25] It's not good in us, uh, as pastors, servants, it's not good being dishonest with kids.

[00:16:31] You know, as parents, you do not want to be dishonest with your kids.

[00:16:35] Uh, you want to be able to deliver the truth to them in an age appropriate way.

[00:16:39] That's the key age appropriate or situation appropriate.

[00:16:42] I'm listening to the episodes we've been doing, Bob, and I'm thinking, man, it almost

[00:16:46] begs the, an episode on it's an, it's more important how you do something.

[00:16:51] It's just as, or more important how you do something as much as it is how that you do

[00:16:56] it.

[00:16:56] Like sometimes we're just like so focused on doing it, but like, no, how you do it is

[00:17:01] very important, but you definitely don't choose dishonesty over honesty.

[00:17:06] The God will not bless that.

[00:17:08] Uh, God will not bless a lie.

[00:17:11] Uh, he will not bless dishonesty, uh, in our lives.

[00:17:15] And at this point, there are people listening, wait a minute.

[00:17:17] What about, what about, and we'll set those examples.

[00:17:21] I think of the midwives, uh, in Exodus and let, we, we, let, let's just take that and

[00:17:27] say, okay, there's an episode in the Bible that might challenge our thinking a little

[00:17:32] bit and we can study it and look at it, but it doesn't dismiss what I'm saying.

[00:17:36] It doesn't dismiss.

[00:17:37] You can't dismiss it.

[00:17:39] Um, you, and, and just the thought, well, I want to find a way where I can be dishonest

[00:17:44] where I should be dishonest.

[00:17:45] It's such a rare occasion that I'm sure God will sort it out and he'll give us wisdom

[00:17:50] in the moment, exactly what we're supposed to do, how we're supposed to do it.

[00:17:53] And we'll get there when we get there.

[00:17:55] But the reality is most of the time, most, most, most of the time, it is just a simple

[00:18:01] conversation.

[00:18:01] It's just a simple thing where God, we have a relation.

[00:18:05] Hey, how, how many people came?

[00:18:06] Nobody came, you know, not, not a million people.

[00:18:08] Nobody came or how are you feeling today?

[00:18:10] I'm feeling horrible.

[00:18:12] Um, and sometimes you feel horrible so much that you don't want to keep saying it, but

[00:18:18] even saying it is reflecting the, somebody's asking, cause then they don't want to ask

[00:18:22] anymore.

[00:18:22] Cause they just, oh, you know, there was a season in my life after Eddie passed away where,

[00:18:27] I mean, probably for two years, you could ask me every day.

[00:18:29] I tell you, I say the same thing.

[00:18:30] I'm feeling horrible.

[00:18:31] I'm feeling more horrible today than I was yesterday.

[00:18:34] And people just stopped asking, which I don't blame them because they're going to get the

[00:18:38] same answer and, um, that you don't know what to do with it.

[00:18:42] Um, but I'm not going to be dishonest.

[00:18:44] Oh, I'm doing fine.

[00:18:45] No, I'm actually not doing fine.

[00:18:47] You asked, and I want to tell you, and you could just pray for me.

[00:18:50] I'm not asking for counsel or anything.

[00:18:52] It's just rough.

[00:18:53] Um, but one of the things we've adopted here, it reminded me cause the Modesto manifesto

[00:18:59] was a document that the Billy Graham association developed in their organization to help keep

[00:19:05] their leaders above reproach.

[00:19:07] And it actually gets a lot of flack in the current church world today because of one of

[00:19:13] the principles is to not be alone with someone of the opposite sex, uh, primarily for pastors

[00:19:20] with women, but, uh, it goes both ways in a leadership with women, with men, not to be

[00:19:25] so we can honor our relationship with the Lord, minimize temptations.

[00:19:29] And, and unfortunately it gets a lot of flack because, well, what do you mean?

[00:19:33] Is it only women that tempt?

[00:19:34] No, it's not only women that tempt it.

[00:19:36] Like, let's be real about this.

[00:19:37] We're trying to, we're not creating rules.

[00:19:39] We're trying to create principles that might be, uh, and follow principles that might help

[00:19:44] us, uh, to live above reproach.

[00:19:47] Uh, and we're not saying women are more tempting than men or men are more tempting than women.

[00:19:52] We're just being honest that we're human and we don't want to create an environment where

[00:19:57] we would dishonor our spouses.

[00:19:59] So let's set that one aside.

[00:20:00] There's actually more to the Modesto manifesto than just that one principle.

[00:20:04] I have a posted on my website, by the way, edtaylor.org.

[00:20:09] If you just put the word Modesto M O D E S T O in the search bar, it will pop up.

[00:20:16] Um, there are four key elements of the Modesto manifesto.

[00:20:20] And the first one was they resolved, this was their original resolution.

[00:20:25] They resolved to never exaggerate attendance figures at their meetings.

[00:20:30] That was the popular thing to do.

[00:20:33] As Billy Graham was beginning this evangelistic crusade revival type ministry.

[00:20:39] The common thing was to exaggerate, to draw more attention, to gain more credibility in that

[00:20:48] we have adopted that, but restated it.

[00:20:51] Obviously we don't want to exaggerate any of the numbers here.

[00:20:55] We don't even place an emphasis on the numbers here, but the way that we interpret that is

[00:21:00] that we want to put up guards in our lives against lying and deceit.

[00:21:04] I mean, that's just the bottom line.

[00:21:05] We do not want to be liars.

[00:21:07] We want to be honest.

[00:21:08] We want to walk in the spirit.

[00:21:11] We want to have a depth of character that you can trust us.

[00:21:15] We want to be able to, to have a level of spiritual maturity that reflects our role in, in life

[00:21:22] or, you know, the, the sense of relationship.

[00:21:25] I mean, uh, if I know Bob, you will tell me the truth, then you will be a trusted source

[00:21:31] of information in my life, good or bad.

[00:21:34] Um, in, in dishonesty, have you seen it pop up in people that have served alongside of you

[00:21:41] or have you had to deal with someone that was dishonest with you?

[00:21:44] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:46] Um, when I was serving, um, in another place, uh, there was a brother that I was considering,

[00:21:53] uh, taking over an outreach, uh, Bible study.

[00:21:59] And he, uh, didn't tell me the truth about some of the things that happened in his past.

[00:22:05] He glossed over it and it all came out later on.

[00:22:09] And I asked him, why didn't you, why didn't you tell me the truth?

[00:22:12] He says, well, my, my attorney says I didn't had to, I didn't have to because it was all

[00:22:17] resolved.

[00:22:17] I'm going, you, you can't, you can't do this.

[00:22:21] I mean, we're, we're in a trusted position.

[00:22:23] Do you understand how many, um, believers have had their trust broken in leaders because

[00:22:32] they, they took that vulnerable step of trusting them to be truthful and then found out that

[00:22:39] for years they'd been lied to.

[00:22:41] That's an interesting addition.

[00:22:43] It's similar to the illustration of the guy that came up after service.

[00:22:46] We have to be careful who we listen to in our council.

[00:22:49] Like if someone counsels us, the Bible says in a multitude of counselors, there's peace,

[00:22:54] but also that there's in a multitude of counselors, it could be very confusing.

[00:22:58] Um, they could give you all in this idea of, I know what the Bible says, pastor, but my attorney

[00:23:04] said, so because it's hard and difficult and might bring consequences, I chose the counselor

[00:23:10] that I wanted to listen to.

[00:23:12] And it wasn't you.

[00:23:13] Uh, it was an attorney.

[00:23:15] And so I'm going to take outside counsel.

[00:23:19] And, and again, that it could be, I could even say that the attorney's counsel was wise

[00:23:25] in the context that he was giving it.

[00:23:27] He was an attorney.

[00:23:28] Right.

[00:23:29] So he's given attorney counsel and he's looking at liability and he's looking at whatever

[00:23:32] different things, but it wasn't the whole message that this brother needed to hear.

[00:23:37] The whole message was God desires truth in the inward man, in the inward parts.

[00:23:43] Like he wants us to flow in honesty.

[00:23:46] It's not good.

[00:23:48] Yeah.

[00:23:48] Dishonesty hurts people.

[00:23:50] Um, I mean, it brings reactions.

[00:23:53] I mean, I was angry that I was lied to because I had given him a personal trust over this group

[00:24:00] of people to, to be their leader and, and develop a potential church plant.

[00:24:06] And, uh, that was a hard one.

[00:24:09] Uh, that was a hard one, but when those things happen, you also have to turn the mirror around

[00:24:15] and say, okay, let's examine your life.

[00:24:17] Have there been any areas where you've done the same thing?

[00:24:20] I mean, it's important to not just be outward, but to consider yourself like we've talked about

[00:24:27] earlier.

[00:24:27] Yeah.

[00:24:28] We have to consider ourself.

[00:24:29] I think the, the significance of honesty also branches off, right?

[00:24:35] There's so many different branches.

[00:24:36] It's not just an outright lie, but then it's, it's rumor.

[00:24:40] It's gossip.

[00:24:42] It's a character assassination.

[00:24:45] It's social media.

[00:24:47] Uh, I think of the scripture where it says the first one to plead his case sounds right

[00:24:52] until his neighbor comes and reproves him.

[00:24:54] And so even in a situation that involves a third party, if they come and talk to you,

[00:24:59] they, they could be telling you the truth, just not the whole truth.

[00:25:02] They don't, they, they don't have the whole truth or they might share their, the truth

[00:25:08] in such a way where it favors them, or this is how they experienced it.

[00:25:12] At the essence, the importance is that we, we tell the truth.

[00:25:17] You want to be effective in ministry and you know, you're listening to this season.

[00:25:21] You go, this is simple.

[00:25:22] This is simple.

[00:25:23] Another simple topic.

[00:25:24] Yeah.

[00:25:24] Yeah, it is because these get overlooked.

[00:25:27] These simple topics get overlooked where we forget that telling the truth all the time

[00:25:35] is what God requires.

[00:25:37] This is what will make you more effective.

[00:25:39] Uh, and I, I'm, I might be butchering this, this quote, but I remember hearing that when

[00:25:45] you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory.

[00:25:49] So I think it's something like that.

[00:25:50] You tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory because the truth is the truth.

[00:25:54] And I don't need to worry about what I told Bob or what I told Jeannie or what I told Marie

[00:25:59] or what I told Andy, like in all of this, because I told him all the same thing.

[00:26:03] I told him the truth and I don't need to worry about what I said.

[00:26:06] Or if Bob comes up and asked me a question, I don't have to process all the way back and

[00:26:11] go, well, I wonder how I said it or what?

[00:26:13] Well, no, I know what I said.

[00:26:14] Or if I forgot what I said, I can recall the reality of the situation and it will be the

[00:26:20] same as what I told you before.

[00:26:22] Uh, I don't have to have a good memory.

[00:26:25] And when you hear something about somebody and it's not firsthand because you didn't see

[00:26:31] it personally yourself, just know there's always a backstory.

[00:26:35] And so when you're going and you're going, well, that was a reliable source.

[00:26:39] And so I'm, I'm gonna, you know, I happen to share this.

[00:26:42] Oh, it's just a prayer request.

[00:26:43] I mean, wait a minute.

[00:26:46] Being a person of truth means that you think the best first.

[00:26:50] And maybe there's a good backstory that sheds a whole different light upon what's going on.

[00:26:57] Don't be a person that continues to really foster half truths that are unverified.

[00:27:03] Yeah.

[00:27:04] And I would add to that, don't become a person that gets used to not telling the truth.

[00:27:10] Don't get, don't become a person that, cause I think of how uncomfortable it can be.

[00:27:15] I think of how sometimes, uh, having to tell the truth, which will be a, uh, uh, future episode

[00:27:22] where we're going to speak the truth and love, but having to tell the truth may is so uncomfortable

[00:27:28] and so hard that we choose, well, maybe I just won't say the truth so I can preserve

[00:27:34] relationship or I won't say the hard thing, or I won't do the hard thing.

[00:27:39] And it puts us in a position of great discomfort and great.

[00:27:44] I would say great dishonesty brings great discomfort and doesn't put us in a place of great usefulness

[00:27:51] from the Lord, especially as third parties.

[00:27:53] I mean that, again, I'm thinking jotting little notes down of future episodes because many

[00:27:59] of the problems that we have when it comes to honesty and dishonesty is third party.

[00:28:03] It's always a third party.

[00:28:04] Um, not always, but often a third party where man, uh, you and I are doing great, but then

[00:28:10] you add a third party and we have a differing opinion on it and a different perspective.

[00:28:13] And then that person might be working the, and it's like, oh man, that's where messes come

[00:28:19] and I can't control the mess.

[00:28:20] I think I have, I've learned that over the years.

[00:28:22] I cannot control all the messes that people create through sin.

[00:28:26] Um, I can't even control the messes I've created through sin, but what I can control is my personal

[00:28:34] inner life, my personal walk with the Lord and obeying him moment by moment, including telling

[00:28:39] the truth in the moment, not being dishonest, uh, and making sure that I'm not following the

[00:28:47] ways of the devil.

[00:28:48] Cause the, he is the author of all lies.

[00:28:51] He's the father of lies and I don't want to be associated with him.

[00:28:54] I want to walk in the truth as Jesus.

[00:28:57] Jesus declares himself, John 14, six.

[00:28:59] I am the way, the truth and the life.

[00:29:02] So I want to be in his life, following his way, abiding in his truth.

[00:29:07] Any final thoughts?

[00:29:09] No, this is, uh, this whole topic is something to really chew on and to bring before the

[00:29:16] Lord in your life and let him search you.

[00:29:18] I mean, don't be afraid of the Lord.

[00:29:20] He's a God of truth.

[00:29:21] He's also a God of compassion, a God of understanding, a God of mercy.

[00:29:26] He's also a just God.

[00:29:27] And so, uh, be vulnerable to him with that.

[00:29:32] And because if the spirit of truth lives in you as a believer, then the Holy Spirit is

[00:29:37] going to guide you and, and help you to be more and more of a truthful person.

[00:29:42] Thanks, Bob.

[00:29:43] Well, this concludes another episode of Lead to Serve.

[00:29:47] And we are so grateful that you would join us in our discussion.

[00:29:53] Uh, this is season six of Lead to Serve.

[00:29:57] And it's a podcast that we started here just to talk about life and ministry as it relates

[00:30:03] to your servant's heart, your desire to serve the Lord.

[00:30:06] Your feedback is super important.

[00:30:08] You would please, we ask you would leave feedback first and foremost by leaving a review, leave

[00:30:14] a positive review, share some thoughts or notes if it, if wherever you're listening to

[00:30:20] your podcast allows so that people will see it, read it.

[00:30:24] We've noticed our listener ship has increased.

[00:30:27] So thank you for that.

[00:30:28] We've also noticed more positive reviews.

[00:30:31] Thank you for that.

[00:30:33] Uh, we are going to make a concerted effort to record more often, even though it is very

[00:30:40] challenging with full schedules, uh, on top of ministering and serving.

[00:30:44] And Pastor Bob gets to travel all sorts of places all the time, helping churches, ministering

[00:30:51] and my schedules up and down with various things that God allows me to be a part of.

[00:30:56] So I appreciate your patience in between seasons, but we get them done.

[00:31:00] We get them posted.

[00:31:00] They're ready for you.

[00:31:02] Um, this is season six.

[00:31:03] Leave us some feedback.

[00:31:04] You can do it directly to us.

[00:31:06] The phone number to use to text us or leave a voicemail is 720-608-0012, 720-608-0012.

[00:31:19] And that's a, that's very helpful to, if you have show ideas or feedback or somehow God

[00:31:24] has used it in your life, we definitely want to hear it.

[00:31:27] It's always soothing to our souls.

[00:31:29] And then you can email as well, ed at edtaylor.org, ed at edtaylor.org.

[00:31:36] It has to be .org.

[00:31:38] Otherwise you'll be emailing Santa Claus and he stopped forwarding emails a long time ago.

[00:31:43] Uh, he started to do it in the beginning and I haven't gotten one from him in a long time.

[00:31:48] Uh, so .org is the right email.

[00:31:51] Um, but we'd love to hear your show ideas, your show feedback.

[00:31:54] Uh, we'd love to hear what God's doing in your life.

[00:31:56] Um, make sure you share this, share it with your friends, share it with the leaders you

[00:32:01] serve with, share it with your pastor, uh, put it up on your social media.

[00:32:05] Uh, the way things are all set up today, it's so easy to share an episode of a podcast, bookmark

[00:32:12] it, use it, but we're grateful to be a very small part of the huge work that God's doing

[00:32:17] in your life until next time.

[00:32:18] We'll post another episode next week.

[00:32:21] This is the lead to serve pastor Ed Taylor, pastor Bob Clay camp.

[00:32:25] Uh, we'll be with you next time.

[00:32:28] Thank you for joining us for this episode of lead to serve with pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership

[00:32:33] podcast from Calvary church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:32:36] If you have a leadership question, you want to hear answered on a future lead to serve podcast,

[00:32:41] please email it to pastor ed at calvary co.church.

[00:32:44] And if you like our podcast, please subscribe rate or review us on iTunes and share us with

[00:32:49] your friends on social media.

[00:32:51] Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right here on the lead to serve podcast.