601. Authenticity and Transparency Are Essential

[00:00:06] This is Lead2Serve with Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast.

[00:00:37] I was looking at the listener numbers recently, and those are going up.

[00:00:42] And now we're going to make a concerted effort to keep the seasons close together.

[00:00:48] But I have to say it's a little challenging because I've invited Pastor Bob Claykamp

[00:00:54] to be a regular part of the program.

[00:00:57] We'll just introduce Bob right now.

[00:00:59] Welcome, Pastor Bob.

[00:01:01] It's great to be here.

[00:01:02] I still have some notes on your experience for the sake of those that are new to the podcast.

[00:01:08] Bob has 30 plus years of ministry experience starting at living in a communal Christian home,

[00:01:17] one of the original Jesus people.

[00:01:20] If you walk the hallways of our church office here, we've got an authentic poster of the movie

[00:01:28] Jesus Revolution, like an authentic poster from the movie theater.

[00:01:32] Actually, it's from the movie theater across the street.

[00:01:35] But if you come and walk the hallways, you ever come and visit us and you walk the hallways,

[00:01:39] if you look carefully at our poster on the wall, you will see Bob and Jeannie there on the poster

[00:01:48] as a part of the original Jesus Revolution.

[00:01:51] You were there, right, Bob?

[00:01:53] Yeah, we were there.

[00:01:54] We didn't know what was going on.

[00:01:55] We were just trying to take care of what's in front of us.

[00:02:00] That's an interesting thing you just said.

[00:02:02] That could be a future topic.

[00:02:04] What you just said, we didn't know what was going on.

[00:02:08] We were just a part of it.

[00:02:10] We're looking back at it and we're making it all about what was going on.

[00:02:14] But living it, it was just a daily abiding...

[00:02:18] We had nothing to compare it to.

[00:02:20] It was just you were taking care of things.

[00:02:24] Taking care of things and trying to keep yourself from making mistakes that you'd regret.

[00:02:31] And so you're looking back on it and you go, that was the grace of God just stepping in so many times

[00:02:39] because it could have gone horribly bad.

[00:02:43] Yeah.

[00:02:43] So that communal Christian home, then he was the founding and senior pastor of Calvary Chapel in North Phoenix.

[00:02:52] And then he headed off to missionary work in Exeter, England, which is where I met him.

[00:02:59] I actually met him through his son, who's a part of our team here.

[00:03:03] And now is a minister with the Poiman Ministries, helping churches around Colorado, around the United States, and even around the world.

[00:03:13] So it's good to have Bob.

[00:03:15] And adding my schedule and my schedule and our producer's schedule, it makes for some challenging arrangements.

[00:03:25] But we're here in studio today talking about topics that are important to you because a lot of the topics that were developed for this season came from suggestions or thoughts or discussions that I have had recently with many of you.

[00:03:40] So be sure to share the podcast.

[00:03:42] Be sure to put it on your social media.

[00:03:44] Like it.

[00:03:45] Leave a good review.

[00:03:45] The algorithms and the different ways that podcasts are found are really found consistent to listenership.

[00:03:54] And I looked at our numbers very, very positive, very encouraging.

[00:03:58] I am super encouraged.

[00:04:00] I'm actually a little surprised, but at the same time, very encouraged.

[00:04:04] And our goal is to speak to the leader, to speak to the servant, to speak to the pastor or the CEO or the mom.

[00:04:13] Of course, you're going to hear the perspective from pastors because Pastor Bob and I, that is our role in the body of Christ and in the world.

[00:04:21] But ultimately, the essence of lead to serve is to help your servant leadership so that you'll glorify God in all that you do.

[00:04:28] And the better servant that you are, the better leader you will become.

[00:04:33] And these discussions are like inviting you to my office.

[00:04:37] If we were sitting around on the couch or on the chairs in my office, talking ministry, talking things out loud, we don't have scripts.

[00:04:46] We have some notes, but we don't have scripts.

[00:04:49] So it's not scripted like we're reading off a script.

[00:04:51] That's why there's bumps in the road or a few ums and ahs along the way because we're talking it out loud like you're in the office with us.

[00:04:58] And it's like a mentorship and teaching opportunity where maybe our thoughts are not fully formed, but we're forming them as we talk.

[00:05:07] So welcome.

[00:05:07] Welcome to season six, episode number one.

[00:05:11] The topic today is authenticity and vulnerability.

[00:05:17] Authenticity and vulnerability.

[00:05:20] And Bob, start with the thought that authenticity has become a highly valuable thing in our culture today for some obvious reasons.

[00:05:32] But after, I'll give you an example, after a Bible study, maybe I'll share in a Bible study before a group, before the many people that come to church here.

[00:05:43] I'm a guest teacher at a conference somewhere.

[00:05:45] And I'll share something about my life.

[00:05:47] I'll share a struggle.

[00:05:48] I'll share an argument with my wife or whatever it might be.

[00:05:52] And inevitably, someone will come up and express appreciation because what I shared is connected to what they're presently going through.

[00:06:00] And they'll say something like, I'm so grateful for your authenticity and your transparency from the pulpit.

[00:06:07] And because it really ministered to me.

[00:06:09] And my thought is, I'm not trying to be authentic and I'm not trying to be transparent.

[00:06:14] I am just me.

[00:06:16] This is my life.

[00:06:18] I want to be as open and honest as I can in that sense, but I'm not trying to be authentic.

[00:06:27] I'm wanting to take the gospel, the Bible study, and let it live through me.

[00:06:35] And so why do you think authenticity is such a valued characteristic today?

[00:06:39] Well, I think that people are, they can pick up on when someone is just trying to spin a story or has an agenda.

[00:06:53] It's all around us in the media.

[00:06:55] It's all around us in the media.

[00:06:58] And people get guarded.

[00:07:00] And being able to speak and yet show an application of everyday life, not just in general, but also how you personally have struggled with that particular thing and how you've come through it.

[00:07:18] Because that's where they're living.

[00:07:20] We're not talking to Bible school students.

[00:07:23] We're not in seminary.

[00:07:25] These are people in the congregation that work on everyday jobs.

[00:07:30] They struggle in their families.

[00:07:32] Maybe they're a single mom, single dad, or they've just had a relationship breakup, and they're trying to process, okay, what does this look like in my world?

[00:07:44] It's good to know.

[00:07:45] It's good to be washed by the water of the word.

[00:07:48] But what does all this look like in my world?

[00:07:52] Because I have to live it out.

[00:07:53] And that's the point.

[00:07:55] When you're ministering, they're there to hear the Lord speak to them personally.

[00:08:02] And many times the Lord uses, well, just about every time, the Lord uses the messenger.

[00:08:13] I mean, Jeremiah was called the weeping prophet because the message was so heavy, but he lived of what that looked like.

[00:08:22] I think along with authenticity comes vulnerability.

[00:08:26] I was driving into the studio today, listening to the radio broadcast of my teaching.

[00:08:36] And I was listening to something I delivered earlier this year.

[00:08:40] And I had mentioned how I found the first Bible study I ever delivered.

[00:08:45] And I was mentioning that in the study.

[00:08:47] I was saved in 1991, and I'd already attempted to teach my first public Bible study to about five people in 1992.

[00:08:57] And I found the cassette, cleaned the house, and I hadn't yet listened to it at the time of that Bible study.

[00:09:03] And I'm explaining all that.

[00:09:04] And the topic of today, I can think back to how different I am today than I was then.

[00:09:11] Because in that first Bible study, I'm confident that I was worried about what people were going to think about me.

[00:09:18] I was worried about how I would be received.

[00:09:22] I was worried about countless things where I was the center of that delivery.

[00:09:27] I was the center.

[00:09:29] Even though I had the Bible, and I remember it was a Bible study in Colossians, I was wanting to help.

[00:09:35] I was wanting to be used to the Lord.

[00:09:37] But my motive was on myself, which would have made me inauthentic in some ways, maybe close to the Holy Spirit of that premise.

[00:09:47] Because a lot of times when I share things, they're not in my notes.

[00:09:49] Like, I don't plan ahead.

[00:09:51] I want to share this particular thing.

[00:09:54] It comes in the moment.

[00:09:55] For example, this weekend I taught, and I mentioned the arguing with Marie, which actually wasn't recent, but I'm sure if we go back, it's more recent than I remember.

[00:10:06] But it's like what didn't happen the moment before I came to church, but it popped into my mind.

[00:10:11] And I've got a split second to decide, am I going to share it?

[00:10:16] Or am I not going to share it?

[00:10:17] Is it going to even be important?

[00:10:18] Is this the Spirit of God saying, Ed, to emphasize this, be really good to share?

[00:10:25] Or am I had an errant thought that I have something undone and I need to go?

[00:10:30] But I think the key to authenticity is to remember that you're a servant of the Lord, that the people that you're looking at, sharing with, ministering to are more important than yourself.

[00:10:44] What are your thoughts on that?

[00:10:47] Well, if you're going through a situation and you haven't come through the end of it yet, you have to be careful that you end up with hope and not discouragement as you're talking.

[00:11:01] And there's things that come into your mind and maybe there's just a sense of rightness that it fits the principle that you just mentioned.

[00:11:13] And yet you don't want to get too focused on your own personal experiences because you're not there for you.

[00:11:19] But it's just like a window.

[00:11:21] It's just a quick window to let light in.

[00:11:24] And then you get back to the text.

[00:11:25] Yeah, Pastor Skip uses that illustration to help pastors that you illustrate with all these windows to help light get through into particular people's hearts.

[00:11:36] I was reading an article recently.

[00:11:38] I jotted down some notes about authenticity and vulnerability.

[00:11:41] The author said that when you're honest and open, especially in delivering the word of God, but in life, period, it's emotionally healthy, spiritually empowering, and relationally enduring or endearing where there's a connection point.

[00:11:59] I like that.

[00:12:00] It's emotionally healthy.

[00:12:02] I guess let's step back for a second.

[00:12:05] What's been valued in culture and such a high value to me is Christianity 101.

[00:12:11] It's the ABCs.

[00:12:13] The ABCs are you are a real person.

[00:12:16] I like the note you jotted down, Bob.

[00:12:18] You jotted down what you see is the real me or it's real about me.

[00:12:23] I can say very specifically of the time I've been able to serve with you for the last few years, I think we know Bob and Jeannie.

[00:12:29] I don't see much hidden in you.

[00:12:32] As a matter of fact, sometimes you'll share things in our devos or something.

[00:12:35] I'm like, does he really want to share that?

[00:12:37] But that's Bob.

[00:12:39] Of course, he really wants to share that.

[00:12:40] That's his life.

[00:12:42] That's where he's walking.

[00:12:44] That's how he addresses things.

[00:12:45] But this sense of emotionally healthy, it's spiritually healthy because you are walking in the light.

[00:12:53] And when you're walking in the light that the Bible says in 1 John that we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

[00:13:05] Being authentic and real and vulnerable and being honest.

[00:13:08] And I think that might be a topic later on.

[00:13:11] But being honest about things puts us in a position where we're more useful for the kingdom, not less useful.

[00:13:19] But when the author says it's spiritually empowering, do you have any thoughts on like spiritually empowering?

[00:13:26] How does authenticity make us strong spiritually?

[00:13:29] Well, it would have to tie in with the fact that I can do this.

[00:13:34] If I'm seeing this person work through their changes and this principle that was just shared applies to what that looks like in everyday life,

[00:13:44] I can take that and have a glimmer of hope in my situation that right now seems hopeless.

[00:13:53] And so often we want all the strategy, we want all the steps so that we can really have a multiple choice.

[00:14:01] But the Lord just asks us to take the first step and to trust him with all the rest of the steps.

[00:14:07] And there are times that we're even afraid to take the first step because we're so focused on the potential ramifications that we get our eyes off the Lord and onto what we are going to look like if I really do this.

[00:14:22] Right.

[00:14:23] I have sat through thousands of Bible studies, listened to thousands of Bible studies.

[00:14:29] I love the Word of God being taught.

[00:14:31] And there is a tuned ear.

[00:14:33] You do have a trained ear where you're listening to a brother share the word and you can, at the very least, sense pride in a person where they make themselves the hero of every story.

[00:14:50] To me, that's not authentic.

[00:14:51] I don't believe any of us are the hero of every story.

[00:14:53] Obviously, when we're teaching the Bible, Jesus is the hero of every story.

[00:14:58] But in authenticity, there is, or in honesty, just vulnerability.

[00:15:03] If we use the example, you've used the same example with your wife.

[00:15:07] If you talk about a disruption with our wives, for example, it is not true that we win every argument.

[00:15:15] It is not true that we are always right.

[00:15:18] It is not true that at the end of the story, my wife is the bad guy and I'm the good guy.

[00:15:25] However, I have certainly heard that time and time again, where I think a brother is trying somehow to be authentic or let somebody into a segment of their life.

[00:15:38] But they make themselves the hero all the time.

[00:15:41] And it's just, I'm listening just as a brother.

[00:15:46] I'm just a brother listening to a Bible study, just a believer, a servant of the Lord.

[00:15:50] And I'm looking at my life and I'm like, bro, I'm hardly ever the hero in my stories.

[00:15:56] The things that I carry the most with me are the mistakes that I made or the messes that I created or the issues that I stepped into.

[00:16:06] And I want to warn you guys listening.

[00:16:11] Like you want to be careful.

[00:16:12] Listen to you.

[00:16:12] Go ahead and listen back.

[00:16:13] If you're a Bible teacher, listen back to your last 10 studies and see how many times you're the hero or talk to your wife or your friends or the situations that you have been in.

[00:16:24] Just the little frustrations that you carry that nobody even knows.

[00:16:28] You just get so frustrated and you're processing it all.

[00:16:32] And it's always someone else's fault.

[00:16:33] It's always someone else's fault.

[00:16:35] When in reality, it was just a situation you were responding to and you got in the flesh.

[00:16:40] Why don't you just say that?

[00:16:42] Yeah.

[00:16:43] And as you're listening to a message, I mean, sharing a personal story is just like, it's like salt added to the meal.

[00:16:52] But if it's always about the salt, it's going to destroy the meal.

[00:16:57] And yet for salt, you know, it adds a little flavor.

[00:17:01] It adds a little enhancement.

[00:17:03] But too much of it destroys the meal.

[00:17:07] And I think that sometimes we get lost in our story.

[00:17:11] And pretty soon, 15 minutes have gone by on your little story because you felt, oh yeah, and this is important too.

[00:17:19] And this is important too.

[00:17:20] But you've just lost the plot.

[00:17:22] And you're going off and you're wasting time.

[00:17:27] I think of this application too.

[00:17:30] The application for me, of course, is the pulpit.

[00:17:32] But I'm also meeting with people.

[00:17:34] I'm sharing with people.

[00:17:35] But for the Sunday school teacher, being real and authentic with your fifth graders.

[00:17:39] Sharing in an age-appropriate way, the struggles in your life or the difficulties in your life.

[00:17:44] Inviting the kids to pray for you.

[00:17:46] Pray for your marriage.

[00:17:48] Pray for your job.

[00:17:49] There's a realness about it where you are just a servant.

[00:17:52] Or I think about the mom.

[00:17:54] This is something that was added to my life after as a born-again believer, as a dad.

[00:18:00] But I'm thinking about the stay-at-home mom or now ramping up for homeschooling.

[00:18:05] And you blow it.

[00:18:06] You know, the authenticity with a situation where you've blown it with your kids.

[00:18:11] They know you blew it.

[00:18:12] You know you blew it.

[00:18:14] The best thing to do is to agree with it and ask for forgiveness.

[00:18:18] We're always drawing from our kids the need for them to correct and the need for them to step up.

[00:18:24] But then the Father in Heaven is asking us, well, wait a minute.

[00:18:27] How about you?

[00:18:28] And there's a realness that you can connect with your kids on a level that you haven't connected with before

[00:18:33] because you get to step into, you know, I know you know.

[00:18:38] I know you see what happened.

[00:18:39] And I just want to ask you for your forgiveness because I did blow it.

[00:18:43] And there's a realness.

[00:18:44] You're real.

[00:18:46] And people see the real you.

[00:18:49] The question is, do they do that?

[00:18:52] Or they watch you, especially when you fail.

[00:18:53] So the question is, do you agree with that's the real you?

[00:18:57] That you don't always hit the mark.

[00:18:58] That you do stumble at times.

[00:19:01] And how important it is for us to walk in the reality of what Paul said.

[00:19:07] I taught this recently.

[00:19:09] And Paul, he said in Acts 20 verse 18, he says,

[00:19:13] You know from the first day that I came to Asia in what manner I always lived among you.

[00:19:21] Which ties us back to what Peter taught us.

[00:19:25] Shepherd the flock of God that's among you.

[00:19:27] Everything we do in our ministry and service, in the church, at work, at home, at the beach,

[00:19:35] at the reservoir, wherever we are, we are among people.

[00:19:39] So the question then is, how do we live?

[00:19:42] What is our life?

[00:19:43] Is it hypocritical?

[00:19:45] Is it two-faced?

[00:19:47] You know the life.

[00:19:48] How does it feel with people watching your life, Bob?

[00:19:51] Well, there is a, and sometimes an insecurity.

[00:19:58] Because you have your own issues that you're dealing with.

[00:20:03] But, you know, when Jesus said that we're called to live the crucified life.

[00:20:09] If any man follow him, come after me, let him deny himself.

[00:20:14] Pick up his cross daily and follow me.

[00:20:17] Sometimes we forget that we're so afraid of being wounded that we forget that you can crucify areas of your life.

[00:20:29] Drive a nail through your foot.

[00:20:30] Drive a nail through your hand.

[00:20:32] But somebody else has to drive the last stake.

[00:20:35] And God uses situations to reveal that, you know, you're just trying to hang on.

[00:20:44] And he uses difficulties.

[00:20:46] He uses other people that maybe don't have the right motive or they're in the flesh.

[00:20:51] And that becomes the other stake in your hand.

[00:20:57] And yes, it's painful.

[00:20:58] And yes, it's hurtful.

[00:21:00] And yes, I want to protect myself.

[00:21:03] But God has called us to love.

[00:21:06] And loving means you open your arms to even your enemies.

[00:21:11] And so vulnerability is something that is a part of the Christian life.

[00:21:17] Because you need to be, first of all, vulnerable to God and completely open to him.

[00:21:23] And then vulnerable to other people in the sense where you're loving them even though you know they're not so loving toward you.

[00:21:32] When you factor in vulnerability, you think of fear, exposure, the reality of somebody finding out or you're just exposed.

[00:21:44] You're this is who I am.

[00:21:46] And it stirs up so many emotions except when you're walking in the spirit.

[00:21:51] When you're walking in the spirit, you just know this is who I am.

[00:21:56] I'm not saying that I'm happy with my flesh.

[00:21:58] I'm not making excuses for it.

[00:22:01] But the reason you're listening to this podcast and the reason why we're doing it and even talking about these important, look, you want to be successful.

[00:22:07] You want to grow.

[00:22:09] You want to be more useful in the master's hands.

[00:22:12] You want to be more faithful.

[00:22:14] If you don't deal with this issue of vulnerability and authenticity, you will be less useful.

[00:22:21] It is vital that you are a real man, a real woman walking in the spirit, honest about your weaknesses, honest about your mistakes, but also repentant about them.

[00:22:33] Wanting to change, exposing not only your life to others, but exposing your life to the word.

[00:22:40] Like you're vulnerable to the word of God where you're opening it.

[00:22:43] And when it says something, you're like, that's me.

[00:22:46] I mean, that's a great level of spiritual maturity where we're listening to a Bible study, reading the Bible and it's like, well, you know, that sounds like Bob.

[00:22:54] I need to tell Bob.

[00:22:55] I'm going to share this with Bob.

[00:22:56] This is all about Bob.

[00:22:57] But then the Holy Spirit's going, yeah, is it about Bob?

[00:22:59] Yes, it's all about Bob.

[00:23:00] And then the Holy Spirit going, is it not about you too, Ed?

[00:23:03] No, no, no, no.

[00:23:04] It's not about me.

[00:23:05] It's all about Bob.

[00:23:06] It says, well, no, you, you, you have this, like it's, you are that man, Nathan.

[00:23:11] You're the one, you're that man.

[00:23:13] And I think of vulnerability and authenticity too, because I know I'm, I know some are listening here.

[00:23:19] They're just fearful of exposing a part of their lives.

[00:23:24] And I want to let you know, you can, whether it's one-on-one discipleship, whether it's ministering to the kids, you know, whether it is sharing with someone at the office, you can let someone into those areas of your life without, without exposing the vulnerabilities of someone else.

[00:23:46] For example, if I use an illustration of my kids, first of all, I need to get their permission because I won't, I won't share something about my kids that they don't, they, I don't want them surprised.

[00:23:59] Or like, if they don't want me to share, I won't share it.

[00:24:01] And that would be true publicly and privately.

[00:24:06] Like, I'm, I'm not sharing things to expose or get the, get the focus off of me.

[00:24:12] It's all for relatability.

[00:24:14] It's just so that this is a situation and I'm talking to you about it, but, but I have also lived it.

[00:24:20] I'm living it or I've overcome it.

[00:24:23] I'm still wrestling with it.

[00:24:25] But not to present myself as when I sit down and think I'm speaking to a married couple or, or a parent and, you know, my marriage is perfect.

[00:24:33] No problem.

[00:24:34] So follow me because we've got a great, we've got a great marriage without fault.

[00:24:38] No, we have a great marriage with fault or we, how do you argue and not get in the flesh?

[00:24:46] I don't know.

[00:24:47] Why don't you tell me?

[00:24:47] I'd love to, I would love to learn that.

[00:24:50] Uh, it's not how I, so my, so I can't answer that question, but I can rephrase it and say, how can you recover after you got in the flesh?

[00:24:59] Well, I can, I can give a few insights on how to recover.

[00:25:02] Uh, and, and I was one final thought and then I'll give you final thought and then we'll close up the first episode so quickly.

[00:25:08] But the issue about authenticity and vulnerability, and maybe even the discomfort you might be listening, you, you, you're listening right now and you're a little bit uncomfortable about it.

[00:25:17] And just know this, things are always uncomfortable to get used to them.

[00:25:21] Uh, and that's why people don't step out in faith or why it's hard for people to do something that's new is, you know, you're just like, you know, I've got a private life and I'm just going to protect my life.

[00:25:31] And I'm, I'm going to have one life that's public and one life that's private.

[00:25:35] You, you can't, you, you're, you, you won't be effective if you are hiding things.

[00:25:42] Uh, you, you, you can keep things private without hiding, but I'm telling you right now, the reality of authenticity being real is something that's valued in culture today.

[00:25:54] Because it's valued in culture.

[00:25:55] This is an opportunity for the church to really shine because the church in Christ, the bride of Christ, we are walking in the spirit, authentic, vulnerable, real.

[00:26:10] Something that will be very attractive to a world that's into the fake, into the produced, into the staging, into the perfectly edited picture for video, for TikTok, picture for Instagram, where authenticity and realness is a bridge builder for the gospel to build trust in someone.

[00:26:36] Because the more trust you have, the better you can serve them.

[00:26:39] Any final thoughts, Bob?

[00:26:40] Well, I think vulnerability starts with the Lord.

[00:26:43] It starts there being honest with him.

[00:26:46] Sometimes we don't want to be vulnerable to our spouse or to our relatives because of the pain or the difficulty or the pushback.

[00:26:57] But the Lord already knows your issues.

[00:27:00] And so, just agree with him because that's part of the tribulation in our life is fighting against what God already knows is true.

[00:27:07] And so, the foundation of this authenticity and vulnerability is before the Lord be absolutely honest and let him encourage you from the truths of his word on the things that are right.

[00:27:21] I like that.

[00:27:22] I like that, that agreeing with him reminded me of the word later on in 1 John 1.

[00:27:28] In verse 9, it says,

[00:27:30] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[00:27:35] That word confess literally means to say the same thing or to agree with God about our sin.

[00:27:41] And when we agree with God about any matter, it brings about such a great strength in our lives, a more faithful servant.

[00:27:52] And I pray that the topic stirs up your thinking in this topic of authenticity.

[00:27:58] We want your feedback.

[00:28:00] So, we're at the end of the first episode.

[00:28:02] I want to thank you for joining us, talking about authenticity and vulnerability, how it lays, how it's used within our lives to make us more useful, to build trust, to build bridges, to draw attention to the most authentic, the most vulnerable God, the one true God who loved us so much that sent his son Jesus into our lives.

[00:28:25] That's who we're representing in the world today.

[00:28:27] So, give us our feedback.

[00:28:28] Give us feedback.

[00:28:29] You can text us.

[00:28:30] Many people do.

[00:28:31] The text number, my personal text, 720-608-0012.

[00:28:38] You can email me and I forward anything if you mention Bob.

[00:28:41] I mean, I actually forward anything related to the podcast to Bob as well.

[00:28:45] So, you can just use my email, ed at edtaylor.org.

[00:28:50] Make sure it's .org, ed at edtaylor.org.

[00:28:52] But also, Bob has his own website and ministry.

[00:28:55] So, Bob, fill us in on how to contact you.

[00:28:58] Okay.

[00:28:58] You can go to bobclaycamp.com and that's our main website.

[00:29:04] My email is simple, bob at bobclaycamp.com.

[00:29:08] So, there you go.

[00:29:09] Makes it really easy to remember.

[00:29:11] We want your feedback, interaction.

[00:29:12] A podcast is more dialogue, but it's when the feedback comes in, when the emails, when the text messages come in.

[00:29:19] That phone number is 720-608-0012.

[00:29:23] You can leave a message there as well.

[00:29:25] I rarely answer it.

[00:29:27] So, if you try to call it, I probably won't answer it.

[00:29:29] But I do answer the text messages and I do listen to the voicemail.

[00:29:34] So, that ends an episode, the very first episode, season number six.

[00:29:38] And when I started this podcast, I didn't really think ahead to season six and how God is really refining our conversation and drawing us into helping so many of you.

[00:29:51] So, give us your feedback.

[00:29:52] Leave a good review on wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:29:56] It super helps.

[00:29:57] But until next time, this is the Lead to Serve podcast.

[00:30:00] My name is Ed Taylor.

[00:30:01] I'm the pastor here at Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:30:05] And stay tuned.

[00:30:06] We'll post episode number two next week.

[00:30:11] Thank you for joining us for this episode of Lead to Serve with Pastor Ed Taylor, a leadership podcast from Calvary Church in Aurora, Colorado.

[00:30:19] If you have a leadership question you want to hear answered on a future Lead to Serve podcast, please email it to pastored at calvaryco.church.

[00:30:27] And if you like our podcast, please subscribe, rate, or review us on iTunes and share us with your friends on social media.

[00:30:34] Thanks again for joining us and we'll see you next time right here on the Lead to Serve podcast.