Episode 110: Author Hannah Brencher on Unplugging

[00:00:08] Hey friends, welcome back to another episode of the In No Hurry podcast. This is your host,

[00:00:13] Cole Douglas Claybourn. Super excited to be back with you for another episode and this

[00:00:19] week is such a treat. I get to have one of my favorite people, one of my favorite authors,

[00:00:24] Hannah Brencher back on the podcast to talk about her new book, The Unplugged Hours.

[00:00:30] And I love the subtitle for this book, Cultivating a Life of Presence in a Digitally Connected

[00:00:37] World. If you read one of her earlier books, Come Matter Here, it was about being here,

[00:00:43] being present in a getting there world and so much of my life has resonated with so much

[00:00:49] of what Hannah has written and as we all know, we are so deeply connected to our phones and

[00:00:55] our devices and they just take up not only our time but our emotions and our creativity

[00:01:01] and so many other things that can negatively affect us. And they're not obviously totally

[00:01:06] all bad, but the way in which we have come to be so reliant on these devices has become

[00:01:12] problematic and that is what Hannah did several years ago. She started unplugging

[00:01:18] for a thousand hours of the year and really it was just a way for her to peel back

[00:01:23] personally. It wasn't anything she was doing for content or a book, it was just a practice

[00:01:27] that she was implementing in her own life to unplug and be more present with the people

[00:01:32] in her life, her husband, her friends, her daughter and it has just changed her life.

[00:01:38] I wish that I could say that I have unplugged in the same way that she has. I've only gone

[00:01:42] through very small incremental periods where I have unplugged from my phone and from social

[00:01:47] media but I did notice a difference when I did that and if you've ever done that,

[00:01:51] my guess is you probably have noticed slightly less anxiety, maybe a better ability to be

[00:01:57] present with those that are around you and that is what this book and this message from Hannah

[00:02:01] is all about. And I'm so excited for you guys to hear this conversation with her,

[00:02:06] to hear her thoughts behind the book or heart behind it and what she hopes you as a reader

[00:02:10] will get from this book. The book comes out on September 17th. You can get it anywhere that

[00:02:16] you get a book and I'll have all the links for all that in the show notes. But I'm so excited

[00:02:21] for you guys to hear from Hannah again. Again, she's just one of my favorite people. Here is

[00:02:25] author Hannah Brincher talking about her new book, The Unplugged Hours. Well, Hannah Brincher,

[00:02:37] welcome back to the InnoHurry podcast. It's so good to have you on here again. How's it

[00:02:40] going? It's going well. Thank you. I am, I can't complain. It's a busy season but really

[00:02:48] excited in book launch season. I say this every time I refer to you. You're one of my favorite

[00:02:53] authors, one of my favorite people. So excited to chat with you about your new book that is coming

[00:02:56] out The Unplugged Hours. Just tell us kind of where this, I guess before you tell us where the

[00:03:02] idea came from, define to you or define what it was to you to be unplugged. I know for

[00:03:08] some people that might be a different, that might mean something different but for you,

[00:03:13] what does that meant to you and what are you hoping people get from hearing that word?

[00:03:19] Yeah, so I have learned over time that like unplugged can take on various different definitions

[00:03:25] and so for me, unplugged. Specifically, I feel like the biggest thing is I am completely off

[00:03:34] of my phone. I feel like the phone is like the biggest culprit at least in my story for what

[00:03:39] makes me feel too connected. I also would be off of email, not streaming a show or like,

[00:03:46] you know, binge watching a show on Netflix. For me, it's relatively whatever I'm doing in that

[00:03:52] moment. I'm focused, I am tech free and it's really about, I've learned over time, like it's about

[00:04:00] attention and where you're placing your attention and I think that that is kind of the key to

[00:04:05] unplugging. It's like, am I focused in this moment or my feet sunk into the ground in this

[00:04:11] moment or am I all over the place? Am I distracted? And so that's how I would classify

[00:04:17] an unplugged hour for me is basically tech free. So whenever you had this idea, because you started

[00:04:23] posting a lot about doing unplugged hours and kind of just pulling away and it's something that I

[00:04:28] have really tried to do a lot of my wife just spent a month off of social media and really felt

[00:04:33] a difference from that and it's just hard for me because my job is so online and just

[00:04:38] things that we do are so tied to it that it feels difficult to do that. But I have noticed that the

[00:04:43] times where I spent less time with my phone in my hand, I feel less anxious. I feel more present

[00:04:49] and you know, that's something that my therapist has been trying to challenge me to do more is be

[00:04:53] more present because it's like you and I are both in theogram fours, which is a blessing in a curse

[00:04:58] and we spend a lot of time in our heads and we spend a lot of time either being nostalgic

[00:05:03] or looking ahead to the future and it's really, really difficult for us to be present. And that's

[00:05:08] what I've learned like for me, that is a very, very difficult thing is because I'm either thinking

[00:05:12] about something that's far ahead or something that happened long ago and I don't enjoy the

[00:05:16] moment that's right in front of me. And so what have you found to be some of this the biggest

[00:05:20] joys of cherishing the moment that you're in? I mean, you just posted recently about how you

[00:05:25] stopped sharing to social media while you're in the moment. I used to feel the same way

[00:05:30] whenever I would be on vacation. I felt like I had to share right then. Yeah, you know, and

[00:05:34] that I try not to do that now, but what have you learned to be some of the biggest joys of

[00:05:39] just being present in those moments? Yeah, so I mean, I feel like that one that you just said

[00:05:45] like that is one of the biggest ones is actually getting to be present in those moments for a

[00:05:50] long time. I felt like I wasn't or I felt like I wanted to be but like you said, like

[00:05:55] my head was all over the place and thinking about this and thinking about the thing I

[00:05:59] had to do next. And so I've definitely felt like now I'm able to like enjoy a moment,

[00:06:06] savor a moment and not even necessarily have to share a moment. I feel like a lot of times like

[00:06:13] it's habits that have built up over time, you know, a lot of us grew up in the age of the

[00:06:19] internet where like, you know, Facebook was coming to the forefront, Instagram coming

[00:06:23] to the forefront and we learned to share bits and pieces of our day. But what we I think maybe

[00:06:30] didn't have the hindsight to see was that it's like, how was that not going to affect us? How

[00:06:35] was that not going to get us to a place where like we needed affirmation or approval or feedback

[00:06:41] for all these parts of our days. And so I really had to get to a place where I could

[00:06:46] learn to savor the moment for myself enjoy the moment for myself. And that was largely,

[00:06:52] you know, the bigger problem for me is like if I can be in this moment and not enjoy it,

[00:06:58] what is wrong? What is actually going on? And I felt like that was a larger issue of contentment,

[00:07:05] which contentment I think is fueled a lot by social media. It's like, we have access to see

[00:07:10] what everybody else is doing, what everybody else is wearing, the size of their homes,

[00:07:15] the families are growing, all these things. It's really hard to be content in that space.

[00:07:22] But one of the things that I keyed into during that time of unplugging and beyond, you know, in like,

[00:07:28] Paul talks about contentment in Philippians four, but what I found to be really beautiful is like,

[00:07:32] I had never noticed that he says in Philippians four, I have learned the secret of contentment,

[00:07:38] meaning it didn't come to me naturally. It didn't come overnight. It wasn't like a life switch.

[00:07:42] I had to learn this. And so that's something that I've leaned into in the unplugged hours. It's like

[00:07:48] learning contentment and being okay if like contentment is an instant or if feeling still

[00:07:54] flare up. But I mean, there have been so many benefits to unplugging that I'm like,

[00:08:02] I just like, I feel like people can't experience them unless they just like do it for

[00:08:07] themselves. And it's hard and it's uncomfortable, but it's like, man, the growth and the peace and

[00:08:13] the clarity like that comes from unplugging is like, it's unmatched. Like when I look back on

[00:08:20] that year where I decided to unplug for a thousand hours, I still look back and feel like that was

[00:08:26] one of the best years of my life. Like because I was fully present in it. I was fully engaged

[00:08:32] in it. And I have continued the rhythm on unplugging since then, but there was just something

[00:08:38] really magical about that year that everything about it seems like it was in Technicolor.

[00:08:45] Yeah. How long did it take for that to become a habit? I know I think last time we talked,

[00:08:49] we talked about James Clear's book, Atomic Habits. And I've read that at the start of,

[00:08:53] I believe it was the start of 2023. It was the first book I read of the year as a way to

[00:08:58] hopefully build some habits. And you know, he talks about habit stacking and other

[00:09:01] ways to build habits. But, and I know it takes a while for sometimes for habits to really form.

[00:09:07] When did you really start to feel like it was a rhythm for you and not a burden? Because I feel

[00:09:11] like at first it may feel really difficult to unplug. I don't know. Maybe that wasn't the case

[00:09:15] for you, but I know for me that would be the case. So when did you really start to feel like,

[00:09:18] man, this is something that I want to do. And maybe you started to even feel

[00:09:22] worse if you were online more. I don't know.

[00:09:26] Yeah, I think that the thing for me was that I was, I was absolutely ready for it. I knew

[00:09:32] that I was ready for it. I knew that there were signs of burnout, that something had to change.

[00:09:37] And so like the experience for me was that I was like sitting in a quiet time. It was my birthday

[00:09:42] and I really felt this nudge come out of nowhere telling me to unplug, telling me to

[00:09:48] power down. And so I've known especially like in my faith if I am anything I want to make sure

[00:09:54] that I am like obedient to those nudges. And I've also learned in my faith too

[00:10:00] that if I'm prompted to do something, it doesn't mean it's not going to be uncomfortable. It doesn't

[00:10:05] mean it's not going to come with resistance, but there's always good on the other side. Like

[00:10:08] there's something good and golden on the other side. And so at that point, you know, I had

[00:10:14] already practiced unplugging specifically for my work, like I would do like focused writing

[00:10:21] and I loved that. But for some reason, it wouldn't carry over to like my personal life,

[00:10:28] you know? And so yeah, at the beginning, it was tough and it was tough mainly because I had like

[00:10:34] been so programmed and wired to think I have to be doing something at every moment. I have to be

[00:10:42] checking something off the list. I have to be checking into something. And it takes a long

[00:10:48] time to like come out from under that programming to remind yourself like no, no, no, like I'm not a

[00:10:55] human. I'm not a human doing like I'm a human being. And I think it's something that you consistently

[00:11:01] have to practice. Here I am like thousands of unplugged hours later. And like right now I'm

[00:11:07] in the midst of a book launch that is like go, go, go. And I've had her remind myself like,

[00:11:13] yeah, you can go, go, go. But like this is not who you are anymore. The unplugging really changed

[00:11:20] that in me. It changed my need to be on always be accessible because there was so much deeper joy

[00:11:28] and abundance in not going at that pace. And so I think there's a certain level like almost

[00:11:37] like a mourning or like a grieving process you have to go through when you do start

[00:11:41] unplugging and then unplugging more consistently because you are letting go a piece of your identity

[00:11:48] in a sense. It's a piece of your identity that said you always had to be creating and producing.

[00:11:53] You always had to be moving and hustling and deeper than that. It was my sense of worth and

[00:12:00] value was like if I'm not producing, then I am not valuable. And it's really hard to let

[00:12:06] that mindset go. That's really uncomfortable. But if you can get to the other side of it,

[00:12:13] if you can keep pressing in like man, I just feel like the fruit is so much better in this place.

[00:12:21] But no mistake, it's definitely hard. Yeah. Are you a three wing?

[00:12:26] I am a three wing. Yes, yes. That's why it's especially hard for you to not feel

[00:12:30] like you have to produce. Yeah, that's exactly right. What did you notice about just being

[00:12:35] with your family? I mean you have a daughter and a husband and I know at times whenever Emil

[00:12:41] and I will go out to dinner, we both are guilty of sometimes being on our phone and checking Instagram

[00:12:45] or whatever. And it just sometimes that can get in the way of being present with the ones that

[00:12:50] you love. And your daughter I think is what four years old now. Yeah, she's four. So

[00:12:56] what have you noticed just about being with your family and being able to watch her grow up

[00:12:59] whenever you don't feel as tied to being on your devices or just cultivating whatever you

[00:13:07] want for social media and other people who you don't know? Yeah, I think I've learned to really

[00:13:12] appreciate the mundane and the ordinary day-to-day life which I don't think I fully appreciated

[00:13:21] before this. It's not to say that I couldn't but I don't know there's something that I was

[00:13:29] inadvertently without even realizing it like just doing a million things at once. Like being with

[00:13:33] my daughter but also like anytime she would go to do something cute or fun or whatever, here I would

[00:13:39] be taking out my phone to like thrust in her face to like record it. And so I really had to step

[00:13:44] back and get to this point of like it's enough. Like it's enough if I'm the only person that

[00:13:51] knows that this happened. It's good enough and that took a long time to get to that place.

[00:13:57] But you know I think one of the beautiful things that has come through the unplugged hours

[00:14:01] like is like really rich traditions that we've built as a family but also like what I like to call

[00:14:09] I call it like slow documentation meaning that like I am journaling more. I am taking more

[00:14:16] pictures on like a point-and-shoot camera. Like I have these like five-year memory diaries

[00:14:24] that I fill out or like little books for Lane and Novi that I can write notes in. Like I think my

[00:14:29] journaling bibles are much richer. I have recipe books and cookbooks. So it's like a slower form

[00:14:35] of documentation that like other people may not see all the evidence but I have all the evidence

[00:14:42] that I was here, that I lived, that I was invested, that I was present and for so long I

[00:14:47] was confused by the fact that I felt like I had to present all of this evidence. You know? Like

[00:14:53] I had to let people know it was happening. Let people know I was doing this thing and like sharing

[00:14:58] parts of your life on social media can be really beautiful but it also comes at a cost because

[00:15:04] if you go to share something like a piece of writing or like a big project that you've been

[00:15:10] working on or something you feel really proud of, like if you don't get the reaction you were

[00:15:15] hoping for or maybe you were expecting, how can that not change the way that you feel about the

[00:15:23] hard work? You know what I mean? Right. And so that was something like especially even in

[00:15:29] the book writing. Like I didn't really share my book writing process and when I finished I was

[00:15:36] like I have to get to a point where I can tell myself like job well done and like no one gets

[00:15:42] to take that away from me. And so it's kind of the same thing in the vein of like family was like I

[00:15:48] had gotten so used to like sharing my relationship, sharing my daughter online and then something in

[00:15:54] the unplugged hours was like it's not that I just like don't want to it's just like this is mine

[00:15:58] and I want it to be mine and I don't want anything to taint that or to let other people

[00:16:04] get their fingerprints all over that. Yeah. Yeah, I share this anecdote quite a bit. When I

[00:16:10] started doing this podcast it was like the fall of 2019 and I think I just had this idea that

[00:16:15] you know a lot of people would listen right away and I had this vision of what it would be and I'm

[00:16:20] ever being like 10 episodes in and just being like nobody's given me any reaction to this

[00:16:25] like nobody's listening to it like I thought they would and I was having fun doing it but

[00:16:30] I was letting that dictate the result or the idea of my results to the point where I almost

[00:16:36] quit doing it and I was like so just like I felt so much discomfort about it and then I had to realize

[00:16:42] just really what what I was doing was sitting in my discontent and not being content with what was

[00:16:47] there and be you know I was I was able to connect with a lot of really cool authors and like just

[00:16:52] a lot of really cool people and I was like that needs to be enough like I don't need to do this

[00:16:56] because I want millions of people to listen or whatever. I just was like I enjoyed doing it

[00:17:01] so I had to really retrain my thinking of you know I don't want to feel pressure to post so much about

[00:17:07] each episode because I was doing that for a while. I was making all kinds of clips and you know trying

[00:17:11] to do what I thought was right and I was like well as an author you probably hear this too it's

[00:17:16] just you hear like you got to do so many things online and like really promote your work and

[00:17:20] you got to be good at social media and it's like you feel the pressure of I really got to

[00:17:25] build this social media following but also want to be true to myself and like for me

[00:17:28] I've never been one that where that felt natural to be super self-promotional it just was how I was

[00:17:34] raised like I just did not like that's always felt really unnatural to me and so I'm like you

[00:17:38] where I've started you know anytime that I'm writing stuff I rarely post about it it's

[00:17:42] really done more in the quiet than it is in public where it used to be if I wrote a chapter

[00:17:47] I'd want to share it on my Instagram story everybody look at what I did I finished some

[00:17:52] writing today you know and there was a time I mean we went through a hard season where

[00:17:56] you know a tornado hit our house and we were displaced and so I didn't write for like nine

[00:17:59] months because I just wasn't in the space to do it so when I did write a chapter after that I did

[00:18:04] share because I was like okay I'm actually clear-minded yeah that was different but for a while it was

[00:18:09] like I wanted everybody to see everything I was doing to feel validated and it was so empty

[00:18:13] because it didn't really mean anything because I was like I know that I was what I was doing

[00:18:16] was good enough so I love what you said. And that's so true like what you just said about

[00:18:21] like the you know when you started putting it out there and you're like okay well no one's like

[00:18:25] really responding to this I'm not getting the traction I thought I was going to get and I think

[00:18:29] that that's like the shift that we have to make of like okay I don't actually get to control

[00:18:36] the results of this I don't on the internet we do not control the results of it but we can

[00:18:42] control the output we can control what we are doing and what we are showing up to do every

[00:18:46] single day and I think that's the most important part because it's like you were working your butt off

[00:18:53] and I'm glad that you did not quit but like that I've learned to make that the measuring tactic

[00:18:58] rather than the results because I don't control the results I leave the results up to God but

[00:19:03] like can I look back and say job well done because you showed up faithfully and consistently

[00:19:08] and you gave it everything that you had. Yeah yeah I love that and I love like in the book

[00:19:14] you talk about how you're not advocating for a completely digital free world like you're not

[00:19:19] trying to say throw your phones away throw your devices away because you mentioned you know my

[00:19:23] mom calls and gets to talk to my daughter on FaceTime and they get to share a breakfast date and

[00:19:28] they get to have moments like that so there are obviously good things about technology I think

[00:19:32] we all recognize that so in terms of just striking a balance or setting good boundaries

[00:19:37] whatever you found have been good rhythms for you in that way. Yeah I'm definitely not

[00:19:42] anti-tech I think that tech is amazing I've loved it since you know the moment I could get on the

[00:19:49] internet when I was in like sixth grade I've loved the internet. I've been building websites and

[00:19:55] creating things since then and so for me it was never like I want to get off the internet I want

[00:20:00] to get off social media I think it's such a beautiful privilege to be able to cultivate

[00:20:06] a community and a readership via online platforms is something that authors didn't have 20 30 years

[00:20:13] ago um and so I definitely think that the tools are beautiful but like that is what they are they

[00:20:19] are tools and so like we have to be mindful to use them and not allow them to use us um

[00:20:24] and so there are a few things that I do you know like I try to have pockets in my day

[00:20:30] that are tech-free that like I am not on the phone I am not I am doing a single task

[00:20:35] and that's what I'm focused on and my phone is away and those are things like you know reading

[00:20:41] while my daughter is playing or bedtime or morning time like when I'm getting up and I'm

[00:20:47] doing my morning quiet time or when I'm doing focused writing I have these different

[00:20:51] pockets throughout the day that technology doesn't touch um the same for weekly rhythms you

[00:20:58] practice a weekly Sabbath we have a tradition on Friday so we call pizza Friday where like we

[00:21:05] watch a movie and like and that's unplugged time for us because we're both we're enjoying a film

[00:21:11] together and I think that that's like there's nothing wrong with that of like watching a thoughtfully

[00:21:16] produced movie together and enjoying that together it's when you're like double screening

[00:21:21] that you're like oh okay this is where yeah it gets tricky um so I practice a Sabbath we have some

[00:21:30] traditions um it really ebbs and flows in different seasons like but one of the things that I do that's

[00:21:38] been such a helpful tool it's like at the times where I'm feeling really like overwhelmed or like

[00:21:43] maybe feeling like I'm too plugged in I will take a step back and I will like write out what I

[00:21:49] call my what's not working list um and that's where I will just like write down all the things in the

[00:21:56] moment that feel like they're not working and so it might be some bigger things but a lot of times

[00:22:00] it's like the smaller stuff of like I just feel really dehydrated or I'm comparing myself a lot

[00:22:06] today or I feel way too plugged in and then when I create that list I try to come up with

[00:22:11] micro shifts or like micro moves that look like shifting me back in the right direction and so

[00:22:17] for anybody that does start unplugging I do feel like there is a like there's a constant reorientation

[00:22:23] process in different seasons some seasons like right now I'm required to be more plugged in

[00:22:28] than typical but I'm also more mindful of like the times then when I am offline and taking a

[00:22:36] break and taking a rest um yeah but I think one of the biggest mindsets had to be like dismantled

[00:22:43] in it and once I was able to dismantle this mindset like I feel like the unplugging happened

[00:22:48] a lot more seamlessly was this mindset of like I'm holding the world together I have to be on

[00:22:56] and working because if I'm not then nothing is going to be working I will not be relevant

[00:23:02] anymore that is going to be the thing that keeps you on the phone more than anything else

[00:23:07] if you are convinced that you are the one holding it all together yeah like how can you get off the

[00:23:14] phone like that's what's tricky about the tools we're holding is like they can always convince us

[00:23:19] that you could just be doing one more video one more post one more email one more task and when I

[00:23:25] learned to release control of that belief that I'm holding it all together the allure of the

[00:23:30] phone went away to an extent not all of it but like it was kind of like uh oh is this is my currency

[00:23:37] piece in this moment or is it like this like hurried frantic racing and if it was the hurried

[00:23:44] frantic racing to me that was a cue in itself of like step back this is not good for you this

[00:23:50] is not peace we want to follow the peace yeah I mean that's that's all so good I mean you

[00:23:56] mentioned the word hurry there a couple times I mean obviously the name of this podcast is in no

[00:23:59] hurry and I created it because it was coming out of a season where we had just moved to a new city

[00:24:05] and I was teaching at the time and I was just so busy I was in charge of the yearbook and I coached

[00:24:12] both boys and the girls tennis teams and it was like I was always always always doing something

[00:24:17] even if it wasn't on my phone I was just always doing something and then I felt like I had to

[00:24:22] share everything online like I was posting everything about our tennis programs everything

[00:24:26] about our you know whatever whatever it was and I was like I am so burnt out and it was right around

[00:24:32] the time when uh the ruthless elimination of hurry came out and then to hell with the hustle

[00:24:36] and it was like that was the that that was the message at the time was like we have got to

[00:24:42] just slow down and I had a guy on my podcast last year he's a pastor in Australia and his

[00:24:49] name is Adam Ramsey and he wrote a book called Faithfully Present and Emily and I just listened

[00:24:53] to it as we went down to Florida and a lot of the same things just about like you know how time is

[00:25:00] always ticking and different things about you know just how to be present and what the Bible

[00:25:03] says about it and it's like I feel like this is a message that is being circulated it feels

[00:25:09] like there's a lot a lot of times there's like a certain message that I notice that a lot of

[00:25:12] different people are talking about and I feel like right now that is what I'm hearing a lot

[00:25:16] is being present like I said my therapist has mentioned that to me and it's a prompting

[00:25:20] that I've felt on my own heart so it's just kind of cool how like God works in different seasons

[00:25:25] and you notice things and I don't know I just feel like this idea of being present is is just very

[00:25:30] palpable right now I don't know if you have felt that what's holding you back from it I think

[00:25:36] just all the all the all the that's a good question Hannah um I think it's flip it back

[00:25:41] onto you I think it's all the habits I've that I've developed of like being on my phone

[00:25:46] and you know I'm a journalist and so I feel like when it's just very habitual when I log

[00:25:53] into my computer it's like the first thing I do is go to check Twitter and yeah it is I'm not as

[00:25:59] I am not as likely to check it now well I guess I'm still likely but I don't spend as much time on

[00:26:04] it because I used to have tweet deck I don't know if you ever used tweet deck were you ever

[00:26:07] familiar with that no it was like I mean I know what it is but I never used it so like

[00:26:13] let me just paint this picture across my computer screen basically I had like five columns so it'd be

[00:26:18] like my timeline and my mentions and then like other accounts that I ran and then like lists that I

[00:26:23] created and it was like constantly just scrolling and scrolling and so when Elon Musk bought Twitter

[00:26:29] they basically did away with tweet deck and now I just have to use the regular

[00:26:33] like website and it's not as appealing which is good because I don't feel as

[00:26:37] spend the most time on there yeah yeah that's a lot to keep up with it and so I and I have actually

[00:26:43] turned off pretty much every notification or I've at least put them in like you know on your

[00:26:48] phone where it does like the I don't know like the roundup or it sends you like a bunch at like

[00:26:53] six o'clock or whatever time you want to do it's like I don't get yeah I don't get notifications

[00:26:57] like this anymore like I used to get all kinds of sports notifications and things like that and

[00:27:01] my phone would always be going off and I don't have that every group chat I'm a part of I put it on

[00:27:07] do not disturb just because I can't handle the notifications so I've tried to take measures

[00:27:11] but yeah it is I think it's just become habitual to like oh I have a free moment let me just

[00:27:16] check Twitter let me just check Instagram and this is convicting me to consider finding some

[00:27:22] margin to unplug and maybe maybe the start of the new year I will actually I don't have to

[00:27:27] wait till the start of the new year I can do it right now but you know what I also think too

[00:27:33] like to that point what what I've noticed is like because I have instead of trying to

[00:27:40] change all of these like quote unquote bad habits that are not necessarily bad habits

[00:27:45] but you've been wired like what I was trying to do was re re or not reintroduce but like

[00:27:51] introduced a new habit that habit being unplugging whether you start with an hour you start with

[00:27:59] 30 minutes 15 minutes at a time but like now that it's become a habit in my life what I find is that

[00:28:06] like I'm actually able to feel like I'm enjoying these other platforms more because when I first

[00:28:13] signed up for them I did it because I found it to be enjoyable I liked keeping up with the

[00:28:17] news I liked keeping up with Instagram and so like it's interesting how I didn't take any of that

[00:28:24] away which will be the first thing that people tell you to do if you want to be more present it's

[00:28:29] like delete the social media but like is it really that sustainable for some people it will be

[00:28:36] but for a lot of people that have like digital jobs or like want to be on the pulse of what

[00:28:43] technology is doing like social media is a part of it but I found that like where social media was

[00:28:50] wearing me thin making me just exhausted I didn't even want to post because I was like okay what is

[00:28:56] the next trend what's the next thing I have to keep up with by implementing these rhythms that

[00:29:02] allowed me to step back and recharge rather than behavior modification I have since begun

[00:29:09] to look at all of these platforms with a completely different lens. I remember you told me the last

[00:29:17] time we talked that I assume this is still the case but you had like a time limit on your phone and

[00:29:23] laying is the only one who knows the password to it so once you're locked out you're locked out

[00:29:27] is that still the case? It's not because I honestly don't need it anymore okay I think when that

[00:29:32] first happened that was because I didn't feel like I had much control over it and then as I

[00:29:38] actually started tracking my unplugged hours and that became my metric I naturally just wasn't

[00:29:44] on my phone to the point that I needed a time limit anymore and so like it's interesting yeah

[00:29:51] because I've actually never thought about that I'm like oh yeah I don't have that anymore because

[00:29:55] I think because I've done so many unplugged hours when you start unplugging and you have

[00:30:02] a way to track it because I feel like you can't really measure what you don't manage or you

[00:30:07] can't manage what you don't measure. I started just to see the results for myself and I saw the

[00:30:14] gains it's like when you're going to the gym and you first start it out and you don't really want

[00:30:19] to go and you're not seeing any results but then when you start to see those results they become

[00:30:24] self motivators and so I was seeing that in my own unplugged journey was like oh wow I am

[00:30:31] more peace filled oh we have created more of these traditions oh I love what me and my

[00:30:36] daughter just created together in this or I love getting used this time to say like oh man I've read

[00:30:42] two books over the last week rather than I scrolled and can't remember anything of what I scrolled about

[00:30:48] and so I think that's what's so interesting about it was like you start to see the results

[00:30:53] compound and then you want more of them and like one of the things that I do like in my

[00:31:00] with my courses my online courses I teach you know discipline rhythms routines all of that

[00:31:06] but in my course your routine overhaul at the beginning of the course I have students create a

[00:31:14] list and it's like basically a list called the person I'm becoming and they write down the

[00:31:20] person in which they want to become and that takes on various forms whether that's success or

[00:31:25] you know that I'm an early riser or I'm a present mom or I'm the friend that shows up

[00:31:34] with birthday gifts I'm clean and I'm organized whatever it is um and so what's funny is that I feel

[00:31:41] like those things a lot of them a lot of the goals a lot of the things that we say that we want to

[00:31:46] become are not necessarily tech related like it's not the first thing that you write down

[00:31:51] is probably not going to be I have X amount of followers on Instagram you know um and I

[00:31:57] started to realize that the things that I had written down was like oh the time that I've

[00:32:02] given to scrolling or to like mindlessly watching another love thing on Netflix like

[00:32:09] I can use this time to actually cultivate habits that bring me closer to this person that I said

[00:32:16] that I wanted to become and I feel like that is the most valuable thing in the world that is

[00:32:21] like a motivator in itself it's like you're telling me that if I just dig in and I get

[00:32:25] really present I could actually become this person like game on yeah you asked me what was holding

[00:32:31] me back and I think we've probably touched on this to some degree but like what I hear

[00:32:35] when you're describing that is a lot of people and I would say that I fall into this category

[00:32:40] there's probably some fear about that because it's such a change of rhythm it's so counter cultural

[00:32:46] that I know for me I deal with a lot of FOMO and so it's like this idea of uh you know

[00:32:52] what am I missing out on I mean I remember last year at the beginning of 2023 I had a

[00:32:55] goal of not being on Twitter for all of January and I don't know if you recall this I don't

[00:33:00] know if you watch NFL but I think everybody knew this the NFL player who nearly died on the field

[00:33:04] in the Monday night football game for the Buffalo Bills that happened and I was like okay I've got

[00:33:09] to know what happened and I like that sucked me back into that sucked me back into Twitter and

[00:33:14] I was like now I like I've already broken the streak and I stayed on it and then and like

[00:33:19] it was just awful but like I legitimately tried and it was like one little thing got me back on

[00:33:23] there and there so there's like for me it's literally the fear of missing out and you

[00:33:28] you were describing how some people are like oh you mean if I do this I can actually become the

[00:33:32] person I want to become I think there's got to be some fear involved I mean what have you seen from

[00:33:36] your perspective and maybe people that have given you feedback in terms of the fear element of

[00:33:41] unplugging yeah I would say that's the biggest one that you just talked about was that fear of

[00:33:48] missing out is what drives a lot of people to stay connected you know um and I kind of just like

[00:33:54] flipped it on its head of like yeah like you you're gonna miss out that's gonna happen you're

[00:33:59] gonna miss out on things that are happening on the internet and chances are a lot of them are happening

[00:34:04] to people you don't know you've never talked to that football player god like at you can care

[00:34:13] about him but at the same time like is he in your orbit um and that doesn't mean we don't have

[00:34:18] highs and passions in this and that but I think that what I was realizing oh the trade-off is

[00:34:23] if I'm determined not to miss out on anything I'm actually going to miss out on a lot I'm gonna

[00:34:30] miss out on a lot of what is right in front of me I'm gonna miss out on being with my daughter

[00:34:35] being with my family being with my friends like the things that are right in front of me that we

[00:34:40] can almost take for granted because we have this other side where it's like information is

[00:34:46] accessible like at the snap of a finger we can learn and know everything that we could

[00:34:52] possibly want to know and like how does one compete with that but at the same time like when you

[00:34:58] reprogram yourself to be like yeah but like do I need all that information could it be that today what

[00:35:04] I don't want to miss out on is like the sunrise at my own house moving my body a creative writing

[00:35:13] day you know like um I think there is an element probably of like self-sabotage laced into that

[00:35:20] because it is very terrifying to be like oh yeah the person that I want to become but at the same time

[00:35:26] I think like we spend so much time like investing in other people and pouring into other people and

[00:35:32] yet when it comes to things that we said that we wanted to do for ourselves that's usually like

[00:35:37] the first thing that drops unfortunately. Yeah that's really good I mean there's gonna be some

[00:35:44] I think discomfort too whenever that happens like just like I mentioned how that first little bit where

[00:35:49] you feel like okay I'm off of social media I don't want to be on here how do you get past that

[00:35:57] initial pull to want to get back on something because that's for me that was the biggest hurdle and it's

[00:36:02] like what usually once I get past that I'm good like whenever my wife and I have done whole 30

[00:36:07] it's like getting past that first week and a half then I'm like okay I'm good to go the rest of

[00:36:11] the time but it's that first little hurdle that is hard and so how did you navigate that?

[00:36:18] Well I think that's the thing with the unplugging was that it was going hour by hour of unplugging so

[00:36:22] I wasn't going cold turkey off of anything I wasn't getting rid of social media I still don't I haven't

[00:36:28] gotten rid of social media. That was one of my questions was like do you delete the apps or

[00:36:32] anything I guess you don't delete a phone or anything? I used to I definitely used to and

[00:36:39] now I'm just like because it's become such a habit it's kind of like yeah like I don't know

[00:36:45] last time that I deleted the apps and that's obviously something that happens like with growth

[00:36:49] over time but the thing with like the whole 30 it's like yeah the first week and a half is tough

[00:36:54] then you get into your groove but then come day 30 we go a little crazy introduce everything back

[00:37:02] in we always miss the intro no one ever does the reintroduction let's be honest no one does it

[00:37:08] nobody does it and it's almost like well what was the point of the last 30 days you saw all the benefits

[00:37:15] you told yourself a number of times I'm never going back I'm doing this for the rest of my life

[00:37:20] and then you go right back and I think it's because we have to address the root issue and

[00:37:27] if we don't address the root issue habit change isn't going to take place in the same way

[00:37:31] that if you go off the social media for lent and you re-downloaded on Easter your habits

[00:37:36] are going to come back and they might come back even worse because we did not deal with the root

[00:37:41] issue and so I think that's the most important thing it's like okay like what am I

[00:37:47] seeking out social media for what am I saying that social media can give me why am I on these

[00:37:53] platforms to begin with and then reassessing from there like because for me like I show up

[00:38:00] on my platforms because I want to give hope and I want to encourage people like and so as long as

[00:38:06] that's my mission and I have that mission I can show up and follow through with that mission

[00:38:11] but whenever I start to get misaligned or I get too plugged in I have to scale back and get back

[00:38:17] to the why like why did I start this in the first place and so it's a constant journey

[00:38:24] it's not an overnight thing but I think my biggest thing was like okay but like I can't go and throw

[00:38:31] my phone in the woods I'm not going to go live on a commune I have to learn how to work with tech

[00:38:37] because literally everything happens on tech it happens on email it happens you know like

[00:38:44] my business is run a lot of the times via social media and so I have to learn how to work with

[00:38:49] these tools um and that's a little by little shift by shift thing like so for me like I don't have

[00:38:56] email on my phone and that's because yeah I would check it all the time if I had email on my phone

[00:39:02] but I'm not even in a place where I'm going to be responding to those emails I don't respond to my

[00:39:06] emails via my phone unless it's an emergency so why even have it there if later I can designate

[00:39:12] a time to sit down and be fully intentional and present with what's right in front of me

[00:39:18] and I think that's just the biggest thing it's like where are you placing your attention and

[00:39:22] are you being intentional with it yeah do you what do you do in terms of like accountability

[00:39:28] like do you have like this lane is is lane the one that kind of keeps you accountable with this or

[00:39:32] do you have friends that sort of keep you accountable because I feel like for some people

[00:39:36] that might be super beneficial is like hey I need you to hold me accountable I remember like

[00:39:40] whenever I did your um it was your riding boot camp like five years ago I was coaching

[00:39:46] tennis at the time and this was during August of 2019 and I remember telling my tennis players I said

[00:39:52] every day that I show up to practice I want every one of you to ask me if I wrote today

[00:39:56] and they did love that and uh yeah that was like probably the most productive month I've ever had

[00:40:02] and it was just there you go like I and I had these you know 15 to 18 year olds keeping me accountable

[00:40:07] but it worked so what do you what do you recommend me do you have a rhythm in terms of somebody

[00:40:12] who keeps you accountable with what you're doing here or somebody that is starting that they may need

[00:40:17] that little extra help you know talking about going to the gym it's usually better if you go with somebody

[00:40:21] so I don't know any thoughts on that yeah I definitely feel like especially like if you're

[00:40:26] starting out on this journey if you're listening and you're like I have never unplugged before

[00:40:30] accountability could be huge like we have plenty of online trackers that you can use to track

[00:40:37] your unplugged hours but it's amazing if you invite somebody into that experience if you

[00:40:41] ask somebody hey like do you want to do this challenge with me this month or this year like

[00:40:47] we were talking about earlier like I had a time and a season where my husband was holding me

[00:40:53] accountable to being on the apps because I was like I don't want to waste all my time doing this and so

[00:40:58] I had a limit and then Lane had my passcode so that I couldn't bypass the limit and that

[00:41:05] worked for a season I think I'm definitely in a season right now where like maybe it's just like

[00:41:09] I need accountability and other things in my life or other habits that I'm growing but when

[00:41:14] you're starting something out like I 1000% think accountability is amazing and I you know I think

[00:41:23] I mean I think back to like when I first started like pre this concept of unplugging

[00:41:31] like I remember years ago that I was like going through a breakup and all I wanted to do was be

[00:41:39] online to be like oh is he posting is he this is he that you know and my friends took my social

[00:41:45] media passwords away from me and that whole month I was completely off of line and they were good

[00:41:50] friends um but that was like one of the best months that I've had in so long because if I

[00:41:55] wasn't online I was actually like in my life like you learn very quickly when you're like oh I

[00:42:00] can't go on social media so I better go find something else to do you know and so that's

[00:42:06] where I think accountability can be really key to making sure that you are successful that you're

[00:42:13] not doing it alone yeah that's really good well the last question I always ask and I feel like the whole

[00:42:19] conversation that we've had kind of answers this question but I mean maybe you could think of

[00:42:23] some rhythms you guys do for your Sabbath but the name of the show obviously is in no hurry so

[00:42:27] I mean what are some things that you do personally and maybe you guys do as a family

[00:42:31] to sort of just slow down I mean you mentioned the pizza night which by the way every time

[00:42:35] you post one of these pizzas it makes me so hungry they always look so good but what are what are some

[00:42:41] of your favorite rhythms to just slow down whenever you guys have the moments to do that

[00:42:46] yeah you know I definitely think like the biggest rhythm is practicing a weekly consistent

[00:42:51] Sabbath um and so for me Sabbath happens from Friday night into Saturday nights um and that's

[00:42:57] just mainly because you know we go to church on Sundays and I often feel like getting up

[00:43:02] and going to church does not feel restful like it's a thing it's a big occasion you know and so I

[00:43:09] feel like Friday into Saturday is really my time to unwind from the work week to really just get to

[00:43:17] unplug be with my people take a breather take a break but most importantly not work

[00:43:24] and that's the hardest part it's like I'm not on email I'm not doing that extra project even

[00:43:28] though I can like I'm releasing control and giving it back to God during that Sabbath time um and so

[00:43:38] yeah it's funny because even just like I'm thinking about it where it's like yesterday was a pretty

[00:43:43] busy day for me but like there was like this hour hour and 15 minutes like before I had to like

[00:43:51] hop on to like prep for a live class I was teaching last night that like I just put my phone away I sat

[00:44:00] down and I finished a book that I had been reading and what's interesting about that is just like

[00:44:05] practicing that or like mono-tasking to be like I'm gonna sit down and finish this book

[00:44:11] just being in the unplugged hours I feel like in a sense like makes you feel like you're

[00:44:18] moving slower makes you see the piece of like toning it down of like walking a little slower

[00:44:25] for you to realize it's not a bad thing it's actually a really good regenerative thing and

[00:44:31] so it's like I look back on just like that hour and was like oh that was so that was a sweet time

[00:44:37] right there and like Novi was playing around me and like she was content because I was present

[00:44:43] with her and when I've even noticed that like with her it's like if I am reading on my Kindle or I'm

[00:44:49] reading on my book she's way more at ease and like can play around me than if I'm on my phone and so

[00:44:58] I would say one of the people that keeps me accountable is definitely Novi I've given her

[00:45:02] the language since she was very little to tell for her to tell me mom get off your phone and

[00:45:08] she does and I listen to her because like I will I will check with her like on days where I'm

[00:45:15] feeling like oh I think I was maybe too plugged in but I'm also super hard on myself I will go

[00:45:20] and I will check base with my four-year-old because four-year-olds if they are anything

[00:45:24] they are honest you know um but I think that's like yeah I don't know I just think that there

[00:45:31] is a piece that comes just from releasing yourself from the hurry and the anxiety that I think

[00:45:37] the phone produces yeah yeah that's really good I love the idea of your daughter keeping you accountable

[00:45:44] she does she does like I'll be like hey do you want to FaceTime Abuela and she'll be like

[00:45:49] no and I'm like okay like we're not like I'm not gonna yeah like I'm gonna honor the boundaries

[00:45:55] that you have for the screens and I'm gonna honor the boundaries that you want me to have for

[00:46:00] the screens yeah well I just think about that in contrast to how many families we see out in public

[00:46:05] that just hand an iPad to their kids when they're at dinner and they just let their kids kind of go

[00:46:10] into the land of you know the internet and watching videos and I just I understand it

[00:46:16] but Emily and I have talked about like we already are trying to think like you know if and when we

[00:46:20] have kids what kind of rhythms are we going to establish with our kids in terms of screens and I

[00:46:25] think Emily even has some ideas of like at what age do we even want to start introducing screens

[00:46:29] because like I see kids that are two or three years old that are looking at iPads and I'm like

[00:46:33] that can't be good I mean I don't know the science behind it but I don't think that can be good

[00:46:36] the science is not yeah the science is not good and I think like you know I always try to say

[00:46:43] you know what like I don't I don't know what that person is going through I don't know

[00:46:47] because there have definitely been times when we've gone to a restaurant and we're like you know

[00:46:51] what okay there is an iPad and we're gonna give her the iPad you know like um but we did

[00:46:56] like little things like we started from early on we would take her to Waffle House and do like

[00:47:02] a restaurant training or sit in the restaurant and like very Atlanta you to get a waffle house

[00:47:08] waffle house it was a low stakes environment but it's funny now because we can go to other nicer

[00:47:13] restaurants and she knows how to sit in the restaurant and order and like be a part of a

[00:47:17] restaurant experience for me that was the bigger thing was like we could hand her a tablet when

[00:47:23] we go to a restaurant but like restaurants are fun it's meant to be a fun time it's meant to

[00:47:29] be a fun experience and if I don't teach her that at a young age like how is she ever gonna know

[00:47:33] that I'm curious to see all of these kids growing up like if they'll know how to be present at the

[00:47:38] table you know and we're the same way like we don't she watches things from a screen and that's

[00:47:44] where like a big TV screen is where she thinks that she can watch things and then we use

[00:47:49] we use the tablet for educational games that she and I do together and so it's different for

[00:47:55] every person but I definitely see the correlation between screen time and the moods and the emotions

[00:48:02] and the development of children yeah that's really fascinating I'll well Hannah thanks so much for

[00:48:08] sharing all this what are we're talking about unplugging in here I'm gonna ask you about your

[00:48:12] social media and where to connect with you and where to buy the book so in terms of

[00:48:16] where you are online whenever you are online what are the best ways to connect with you

[00:48:19] and then those who want to buy the book what are the best ways to do that yeah you can buy me at

[00:48:25] hannahbrancher.com or Hannah Brentner on social media platforms the book is called The Unplugged

[00:48:30] Hours and it is available Amazon Target book retailers wherever books are sold

[00:48:36] all right well my friend thank you so much for joining I'm so excited for people to get

[00:48:41] this book and to read it and I really hope it speaks to them I know it's going to speak to

[00:48:45] me and I just hope people will take away from this the benefit of being present and I think it's

[00:48:51] what's really cool is to see the evolution of your books I mean you know come matter here I think

[00:48:55] kind of had an element of this of just mattering here in the moment in a getting their world

[00:49:00] this is very similar I think in a sense and it's it's really cool to see kind of how

[00:49:05] your life has progressed and and how you've you know just grown and how you've interpreted

[00:49:10] the the current moment and the social media element to it and just I don't know I love I love

[00:49:15] seeing the progression of your books I know you shared before how in some cases like an idea for

[00:49:20] your next book sometimes can be found in a previous book yeah fighting forward I guess kind of came

[00:49:26] from something that was written in come matter here and I don't remember if this and fighting

[00:49:30] forward has it has unplugged our in it okay so there you go um the box putting your phone

[00:49:37] in the box yes the catalyst for this so I don't know what the next book will be but it's got to

[00:49:42] be somewhere in this is like very Taylor Swift of you with these like Easter egg in your books

[00:49:49] that's the greatest compliment that you could ever give me well and well you've actually

[00:49:52] correct me if I'm wrong in your writing boot camp did you not talk about the art of Taylor

[00:49:58] Swifting is that something that you wrote about yes yep it is something that I wrote about

[00:50:02] but like not in the best way it was more like you might not want to write about that person

[00:50:08] but Taylor is like the one person that seems to do it and make millions off of it but yeah

[00:50:13] so I'll have to go through because like maybe the next book is somewhere in here you never know

[00:50:18] you never know I've got to keep the tradition going yeah well I'll read it and then I'll try

[00:50:24] to take my guess as to what I think your next book will be about and shoot me an email and

[00:50:29] then I'll write it because I don't know what it is yet well Hannah thanks again so much this is great

[00:50:35] and I'm looking forward to the book and I hope everybody gets their hands on it and enjoys reading

[00:50:40] it awesome thank you it is always so good to talk with Hannah and I so appreciate her coming on

[00:50:50] the podcast this week to talk about her new book the unplugged hours I'm so excited for

[00:50:55] this to be out in the world and for you to get your hands on it again you can get that pretty

[00:50:58] much anywhere that you get books there'll be some links in the show notes as well for her social

[00:51:02] media and her website she has plenty of content related to this book as it's been getting close to

[00:51:08] launch time and I'm just so happy for her and I always love talking with her and I love what she

[00:51:14] does on social media she's so genuine and just so real and authentic I really think too just as

[00:51:21] we close out this year and we enter into an election season there's just a lot of pressure

[00:51:26] as it relates to social media you're going to see a lot of opinions and a lot of

[00:51:31] vitriol and discourse and just things like that and especially when the holidays come it can be easy

[00:51:36] to feel comparison and just a lot of other emotions and so I really think this time of the year

[00:51:41] is a really good time for us to maybe think about unplugging or at least disconnecting

[00:51:47] to some degree from our social media and our internet usage because it's just so nice I think to

[00:51:53] take a break especially whenever a lot of the conversation online can be really toxic

[00:52:00] especially during an election season and so I don't know maybe use this as an opportunity to

[00:52:04] just kind of peel back and be present with the ones who are in your life but thanks so much for

[00:52:10] tuning in this week if you are not already connected with me I would love to connect

[00:52:14] with you on social media I am at Cole Claybourne on Instagram and Twitter you can find me on

[00:52:19] Facebook at Cole Douglas Claybourne and also my website Coleclaybourne.com and a link to my

[00:52:25] sub stack is in the show notes as well so I'd love for you to subscribe to that if you enjoyed

[00:52:29] this episode I'd love for you to share it with somebody who you think might benefit from hearing

[00:52:33] Hannah's words and also tell them about her book I think anybody will benefit from that male

[00:52:38] female regardless of what age you are I think we all can benefit from the message that's in

[00:52:43] this book but in the spirit of unplugging I hope you guys find some time this week to relax

[00:52:48] and not be in a hurry and I'll catch you next time