How to Watch "Peter Pan & Wendy" (As A Christian)

[00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of How To Watch A Movie As A Christian. I'm Jayvan, I'm Riley, I'm Ben

[00:00:13] How to watch Peter Pan and Wendy and Wendy. Yep, as a Christian. This was a movie that came out around late April

[00:00:22] directed by David Lowry's director horror film director. What's your really? Oh yeah, oh ghost stories stuff like that

[00:00:32] I did see that but I didn't associate that with ghost stories even though one of them literally is like

[00:00:37] a ghost story that's in the title. Yeah ghost stories is the title of a horror film that he made that's what kind of made him famous

[00:00:43] He also directed Green Knight

[00:00:46] movie that Riley Ben and myself right that do you like Green Knight? Have you even seen it? Yeah, it's great

[00:00:52] I love it. Great and we should totally talk about that. We really should we should do an episode about that.

[00:00:58] That's so interesting that it's the same director. Yeah, it is. No that nor would I have been able to

[00:01:04] discern that. The only you can tell is the colors. Peter Pan and Wendy is like so the color

[00:01:10] Great is so muted. Anyways, he also directed Pete's Dragon so he's familiar with

[00:01:17] Kate's movies in general and he directed Peter Pan and Wendy. Fascinating movie that just dropped it

[00:01:25] went directly to Disney plus. Yeah, I have so many questions about you know Disney is going through a lot right now

[00:01:33] in the public eye it's very politically charged even talking about Disney. I know watching it in bed last night

[00:01:40] I'm watching it and my wife is next to me and she turns over and she goes, what are you watching?

[00:01:45] That's it Peter Pan and Wendy she goes Disney sucks. Yeah, and she went to sleep. Wait, what? Why did

[00:01:52] you say that? She said she has said that ever since Star Wars the new Star Wars movies. Okay, she's like

[00:01:58] Disney's going on the tubes this is what she keeps saying. Yeah, like she's like she's like

[00:02:03] She's got it out for Disney. I've does that where it started like it's decline and people hate not Disney or was it

[00:02:10] a little bit before they do live action remakes but live action remakes plus the Star Wars sequels plus just a lot of the

[00:02:17] political conversation. Yeah, has just cast them in this light that people go oh, you know and they're suffering a lot

[00:02:25] $1 billion a quarter. Yeah, they're just losing money and

[00:02:30] They replaced the CEO a couple of months ago with the old CEO Bob Eiger who's like a

[00:02:36] Famous CEO very well known guy people love him but he's just trying to get it back one of the more

[00:02:43] things bobs

[00:02:45] Faves Bob's yeah

[00:02:47] Exactly, so Bob the tomato this was made all in the midst of all the drama is that over like pointing at that there's some

[00:02:55] Something shaking with Disney and and maybe that's why this movie we feel the way we feel about it

[00:03:01] I looked it up on Google said 1.9 star suggests yeah, it I mean it's not well received Peter Pannon Wendy

[00:03:08] And we have thoughts on that but from what I read like scripts for it and David Lourry was working on scripts for it

[00:03:16] several several years ago

[00:03:18] And Bob Eiger stepped in you know maybe six months ago so

[00:03:22] But this was well underway. I'm well underway. I think production started in

[00:03:28] 2021 somewhere around there

[00:03:30] Yeah, so who knows whether Disney will continue to do these you know

[00:03:35] I feel like when we've already done Panocio which was like I

[00:03:40] Think I said the worst movie I've ever seen this was not that but it

[00:03:46] It was in that same train of thought yeah and I and I think that the the fatigue

[00:03:52] Around the live action remakes is hard to disconnect from the mute movie itself

[00:03:57] It's hard to watch it as someone who grew up in the in the cartoon right and we can talk about Peter Hannah said she wouldn't watch it

[00:04:05] Yeah, it's you you're afraid of losing something peer painters are favorite so she's like I can't watch it

[00:04:12] I know I want I'm scared. It's so I get that I get that and Peter Pannon is more than just that cartoon from

[00:04:18] 1953 right it's yeah, it's got a whole legacy to it. It's a whole like it's yeah

[00:04:23] The play was originally written in around 1904

[00:04:27] Had several different names the author kept adding to it or you know

[00:04:32] Adjusting it and then eventually released a novel called Peter and Wendy in around 1911

[00:04:39] And the original author is named jambary

[00:04:42] fascinating dude that um

[00:04:44] He was like born in a family of believers his parents wanted in the go in the ministry and he's like actually

[00:04:51] I want to be a writer and he had this whole thing with his family of like how can I

[00:04:56] Right but also

[00:04:58] like minister to people and

[00:05:01] One of the worst that he present he made a bunch of stuff, but he also made Peter Pan which is his most famous right

[00:05:06] There's a lot of myth around the story right about

[00:05:10] Like finding never land dramatizes him hanging out with this widow lady and her kids and getting to know them

[00:05:18] And writing a story for them which ends up being Peter Pan and it's a lot about

[00:05:23] Childhood the spirit of innocence and the spirit of childhood and yet the necessity of growing up and how to grow up

[00:05:30] This film leans hard into growing up wrong

[00:05:33] Grown up wrong which is like a lot of stuff it's like you're taking a review of Peter Pan and taking the themes and putting them into your script

[00:05:42] The original Peter Pan was not so on the nose with its themes

[00:05:47] Captain hook grew up wrong

[00:05:50] It's like do you know it's a it's a metaphor

[00:05:53] It's a yeah, it's a pirate right and so this one like takes a lot of those insights that are in the script of the originals

[00:06:00] But just puts it on the page in a way that's yeah, I've learned a lot about the original Peter Pan from just hearing you guys talk about it

[00:06:08] It seems like there's a lot of history behind it. There's little things like hook hooks voice always being the same voice as the father

[00:06:16] Little they did not do in this film. You know

[00:06:19] I don't know a lot about the Peter Pan story other than what you guys have told me and it almost seems like they made this movie

[00:06:25] With about as much knowledge as I have of it and I'm just curious about why they

[00:06:31] You know you guys have a lot to say because you know the history of it, you know the meaning behind it and it seems like they kind of did gloss over a lot of the

[00:06:40] deeper meanings of it to try and maybe overlay some more modern

[00:06:45] Stories or

[00:06:47] You know things that they're trying to share you know we've talked about it before the lost boys being a

[00:06:52] Ragtack group of boys and girls in this one right and Wendy's like but you're not a boys and then she goes

[00:06:59] So what and then Wendy looks at the camera goes I guess it doesn't matter

[00:07:03] We know like okay on the nose here

[00:07:08] And I'm like

[00:07:10] Okay, you know, it's clear what you're trying to get at whatever you do you but there's meaning to the lost boys

[00:07:16] Right there. What am I tapping on here?

[00:07:18] Yeah, so I get part of it and maybe not many people know fully what the original story of Peter Pan is

[00:07:28] So

[00:07:29] Wendy and her brothers are in a nursery

[00:07:32] Father comes in and is like why don't you grow up

[00:07:36] There's this whole thing where he's yelling at them and scolding them and scolding them

[00:07:41] And there's this conversation behind you know in the back of everyone's minds of when he's been telling the stories about

[00:07:47] Peter Pan in a shadow and all these things and when that happens

[00:07:52] Peter Pan shows up now Peter Pan and Neverland in the story

[00:07:57] It's like an allegory it's it's heard to overanalyze

[00:08:02] It's like her subconscious. It's not a real place the

[00:08:05] 1953 cartoon the narrator at the beginning

[00:08:09] Calls Peter the spirit of youth right right and so that's interesting

[00:08:15] There's less whole like symbolic thing going on in the original story that

[00:08:20] Peter and Wendy or Peter Pan and Wendy

[00:08:23] They like try to flesh it out so they're adding girls to the lost boys

[00:08:28] But you're completely missing the point the point is these are symbols they're two

[00:08:33] Dimensional for a reason because they're supposed to represent truths about reality in the abstract

[00:08:40] They're not actual people the last boys are not

[00:08:44] Actual boys they represent boys that are stuck in not going up and playing and

[00:08:51] Escapeism and fun and only fun and not having adulthood. I think that that speaks to you if you haven't read

[00:08:59] CS Lewis's essay it was titled

[00:09:02] Sometimes fairy stories say best

[00:09:06] What is to be said?

[00:09:08] That's the title of the essay

[00:09:10] Sometimes fairy stories say best what is to be said?

[00:09:14] It's a little clunky. I know

[00:09:15] It's it kind of is main point is this that a fairy tale by nature is

[00:09:20] To dimensional right Peter is the spirit of youth

[00:09:24] Yeah last boys are

[00:09:26] Represent male lossness yes and remaining in childhood and not growing up and if you do so you are lost

[00:09:35] Captain Hook represents a adulthood gone wrong

[00:09:39] They represent they clearly did some things differently

[00:09:43] We could acknowledge that of course we have our feelings on that but I really am curious why is that so bad?

[00:09:48] What is it messing up what are we losing with the representation like they're adding in representation

[00:09:54] Which I think we all agree that's nothing overall. Oh my gosh the diversity thing which has been

[00:10:00] Part of the conversation or controversy of Peter Pan

[00:10:03] To me that doesn't matter at all like you can do that as much as you want in this story

[00:10:10] It's I feel the same and I was reading an article last night of a Cherokee nation director

[00:10:19] Talking about this film and how she appreciated that they get

[00:10:23] Native American representation more accurately this woman who plays tiger lily is

[00:10:28] I forget the name of the tribe but she's speaking her native language and there's all this work to represent it

[00:10:34] Well, and she's like she's applauding that she's like that's cool and so to me the the idea of like

[00:10:41] Representing things correctly is fine and having diversity that has literally nothing to do

[00:10:47] That's not the problem with this movie what we're saying is diversity

[00:10:53] proper representation maybe and how maybe they are saying it to maybe correcting some issues on the first one

[00:10:59] You know there's a disclaimer on the first one right

[00:11:02] Great good things

[00:11:05] What are we losing though? What did we lose because it would be a little naive to say that we're just gaining something there

[00:11:12] Right so it's what they're doing I think is

[00:11:17] Could be a noble act. I think we all agree there but there I just know in my gut

[00:11:22] Something's being lost and translation here and that is what so a couple of things

[00:11:27] First of all, let's talk about girls being in the lost voice in the original story of Peter Pan

[00:11:33] Peter Pan explains to Wendy that the reason why it's only the lost voice is because girls are too clever

[00:11:41] And they they have

[00:11:43] Proclivity to have a motherhood spirit to mature faster to this is biologically true

[00:11:51] Age yeah, so it's almost to be me. It's almost a little demeaning to women to have them in the lost voice

[00:11:57] It's part of the point is that in the original story they're not there and they're not there for a reason

[00:12:02] Because the story is trying to say something about boyhood boyhood and the lossness that comes with remaining a child

[00:12:09] Because it's speaking to the two boys so Wendy represents something else so the lost boys are representing the

[00:12:14] Lostness of the two boys fighting in their room. Yes women represented by Wendy

[00:12:19] There's a symbol of maturity and motherhood. Yes, so it's respecting both I think that's where it's kind of funny

[00:12:25] Is it's by having lost boys isn't not respecting women?

[00:12:29] It's actually pointing out a flaw or maybe not a flaw but a just a truth a reality about boys and boyhood

[00:12:36] Right

[00:12:37] Yeah, so what does so what about Wendy then? Or I was there more of this too. I kind of hard

[00:12:42] Kind of started spacing out at that

[00:12:44] In the movie you look look at the 1953 animated musical version

[00:12:50] What I find really interesting about the way that the writer's tackle that is Tinkerbell represents

[00:12:57] Immatured you within womenhood. That's well insecurity of her image

[00:13:01] Oh, interesting jellysie image jellysie. She tries to kill Wendy and

[00:13:07] She actually betrays where the lost boys and Peter pans hide out is two captain. Is that part of the original play?

[00:13:13] I'm not sure okay, but in the musical version that is something out play there and what they're trying to explore is like

[00:13:21] Yes, there's image-urity present within boys. That's what it generally looks like

[00:13:26] But there's also image-urity within girls and that's generally what that looks like and it's different

[00:13:31] And it's different and in this modern version you have none of that

[00:13:36] Tinkerbell is not even a character Tinkerbell

[00:13:40] Could be cut out of the movie. She yeah, and it would not matter

[00:13:44] Okay, there was a scene in it where it's like the only thing she says she goes up to Wendy and says

[00:13:49] Thank you for seeing me. Thank no. Thank you for hearing. Oh, thank you for hearing and I just want

[00:13:54] You didn't say anything you didn't do anything you just

[00:13:59] We're a vessel for pixie does and that was your whole thing help. She's a lie. She's literally a salt shaker

[00:14:07] So is it so bad that they lumped in I mean, I think I know the answer here

[00:14:11] But they lumped in both of the immaturity of both genders into one group of people called the lost boys

[00:14:16] wink I think so because what ends up happening and that's not the only flaw that Javans pointing

[00:14:23] I he's pointing also to Wendy herself

[00:14:26] Who's been lumped into that same thing where at the beginning of the story she's sword fighting

[00:14:33] Where is it the beginning of the 1953 version? She's the one telling the stories

[00:14:38] She is a preteen

[00:14:40] Maybe semi-young adult who's ready to grow up

[00:14:44] She's willing she's picking up toys and and

[00:14:49] Michael John, you know, she's becoming a mother leave voice yes, and that's her character

[00:14:54] She's willing to be a grown-up

[00:14:56] So her presence in neverland is contrasted with everybody's immaturity

[00:15:02] Tinkerbells Peters specifically Peters the Mermaid which are like a symbol of raw

[00:15:09] pornographic sexuality right like Peter just has these muses these these

[00:15:15] Mermaid that are like these half naked sexual creatures that he can just flirt with anytime

[00:15:21] That's pure immaturity and Wendy's like you know

[00:15:25] And Tiger Lily who represents like the helpless

[00:15:30] In the eyes of a young man the helpless damsel and I can save her and I'm a hero and Wendy's just like you know the whole thing she's growing up

[00:15:38] And it's her presence to read and to instruct and to be a motherly parental grown-up figure

[00:15:47] That just enchants everyone so I watch this movie who am I tracking with who's like my

[00:15:52] Leading figure showing me the way out. It didn't really seem like there is Peter Panning Wendy

[00:15:57] There's no Peter Panning that's what I'm saying into oblivion because I maybe that's why I just was so incredibly bored

[00:16:04] Yeah, I don't if it's it cuz it was the thing that

[00:16:07] It was kind of pulling me through no driving narrative force. I didn't feel like he rightly and I were texting about this last night

[00:16:14] The only thing you can just ask that thread anytime

[00:16:18] You texted me

[00:16:20] He texted her group chat

[00:16:22] That's right, and then take right me. I'm also here. No, I thought maybe you might be asleep

[00:16:28] It was like 10 p.m. You thought I might be and you thought a text or a way to

[00:16:33] Yeah

[00:16:35] I was probably

[00:16:38] Fascistly our whole conversation which was so good and amazing

[00:16:43] I'm gonna go to the bathroom

[00:16:47] Gosh what was my point. I'm sorry

[00:16:50] Okay, no we were talking about how the whole movie

[00:16:53] The driving narrative force of it is

[00:16:57] Guys, it's Peter Pan

[00:16:59] But not the the great

[00:17:02] error is this

[00:17:04] There are multiple but the great one is this Peter Pan is the main character of Peter Pan

[00:17:09] You could call him the protagonist his names on the title, but the but the issue is the original story

[00:17:16] ideologically

[00:17:17] does not look kindly on Peter Pan Peter Pan's at never ending youth and

[00:17:23] Like if you watch the 1953 version

[00:17:26] He's

[00:17:27] Pist off at Wendy he's jealous and possessive of Tinkerbell

[00:17:32] He's in constant battle with the Indians

[00:17:34] He's in constant battle with Captain Hook when Wendy starts to like tell stories what's he doing?

[00:17:40] He's wouldn't he's like leaning over here and he's like

[00:17:42] You know because his character and chip-a-dales actually pretty accurate then yeah

[00:17:47] He's meant to be the like classic immature idiot that we all are some times

[00:17:55] And the point is yes, he's the protagonist but ideologically he loses in the original story

[00:18:03] Ideologically Wendy wins yes her view of motherhood and growing up and being or embracing adulthood is what wins the day

[00:18:13] Yes, Peter Pan and it's different

[00:18:16] She wins the day both in neverland and also with her parents. Yes in the original story

[00:18:22] Okay, wait so the original it's telling a story of growing up and it's kind of showing you realities of like

[00:18:30] This is this this in this but follow Wendy's

[00:18:34] You know

[00:18:35] Follow what she's doing and you'll grow into adulthood

[00:18:38] This one's maybe tell me from wrong here. It seems like it's more just pointing at things and saying

[00:18:44] But it's not

[00:18:45] Revealing to me away through

[00:18:49] It's not helping me kind of understand a reality as much as it is

[00:18:53] Just point it's pointing at different things they kind of want you to know

[00:18:57] Yeah, like here's a good example in the original Wendy is kind of the integrated mature adult who still treasures

[00:19:06] The spirit of youth. She's still as childlike wonder. Yes, whereas her father is like oh these bedtime stories

[00:19:12] Put enough of this silliness right now that's why his voice is capped in hooks voice

[00:19:16] That's as a tradition amazing in the stage play that began with the stage play and is continued through the cartoon

[00:19:24] And every basically everything except this version

[00:19:28] They don't understand the tradition that they just not know they don't know what their do

[00:19:33] No, but my point is Wendy is this grown-up who loves Peter?

[00:19:39] Right Peter himself is this immature buffoon who can't grow up right

[00:19:44] But she has integrated him into herself

[00:19:48] Whereas this Wendy in this version I think the moment you can point to is this when she slaps Peter in the field

[00:19:54] Yeah, what in the world what the heck

[00:19:59] Well that was fun

[00:20:06] Okay, so what happens is what happens? I was very confused

[00:20:09] No

[00:20:12] I don't know either

[00:20:13] She lies to never let with Peter bad, which that was a

[00:20:17] Fine sequence. Yeah, really good or full and they've they fly and oh it's never let they show up

[00:20:23] Pirates are like pirates attached pirate to ten balls

[00:20:27] Then perhaps act they take Michael and John captive. Yeah chain them up in school rock

[00:20:32] Kid and then what happens up Peter pants saves them and when he in the lost boys go into save them

[00:20:37] Peter pan saves the day saves the day

[00:20:42] Saves the day and then they're rescued and they're all walking across the you know the the cliff

[00:20:49] So whatever and he's like I save the day or whatever and she turns around and punches him in the face

[00:20:56] And then it like cross fades

[00:20:58] To the next scene and I was like oh

[00:21:01] And I woke Brittany up. I said Brittany you have to watch this. I re-wound it and then

[00:21:07] She watched I showed her that 30 seconds scene and she's like

[00:21:11] Disney sucks and she went back to sleep. Okay for real

[00:21:16] What or what why? I can't remember

[00:21:20] But the Maddie only put his life on the line and saved her brothers

[00:21:24] I don't understand

[00:21:26] What an idiot. It's just imagining Rosie's grabbing Samwise and how dare you destroy the ring like it's like that

[00:21:32] You're just like how dare you be a hero

[00:21:35] I was flabbergasted baby that's it

[00:21:39] I don't to be overly cynical but like

[00:21:43] The man or the boy is being the hero when the girl should be the hero

[00:21:46] I can't think of it makes you think things like that because you're trying to and I think what you pointed to

[00:21:52] About her going I guess it doesn't really matter

[00:21:55] It's these lines and these actions of these characters that they don't follow any motivation of a character

[00:22:03] It feels like a writer going

[00:22:05] Stick it to them. I want to go into it being like I want to know what they're trying to tell me

[00:22:10] And then they just tell me like she I

[00:22:13] I'd have to re-look it literally felt like she goes

[00:22:17] I guess it doesn't really matter and it's like okay

[00:22:21] Can you be just a little more

[00:22:24] I don't know woo me

[00:22:27] Please

[00:22:31] It's just in the first date

[00:22:35] After all of those you're kind of like is that really what your chance to tell me is this really what this movie is about

[00:22:41] So, you know

[00:22:42] Maybe Britney's right maybe she's like really right about this

[00:22:46] My wife is the best

[00:22:50] discerner of

[00:22:52] Hidden messages

[00:22:54] She's like within two seconds this sucks. I'm out she's got the best

[00:23:00] Vib on things like that and so she didn't have to watch the movie

[00:23:03] She's like I could tell this is I might go on the filmmaking school it is a cinematography school other than the color grade

[00:23:11] It's like pretty wonder wonders the music was pretty

[00:23:14] It wasn't very catchy very generic fantasy

[00:23:19] Be

[00:23:20] Sure, and then the musical numbers were atrocious

[00:23:24] The pirate singing I was like oh yeah those were

[00:23:28] Those are bad the lullaby that came out of nowhere. Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, you know anyways

[00:23:35] There was some merit to it and I was willing to give it a shot. Okay to give it its deal

[00:23:40] So original story is aiming on like

[00:23:42] Growing up childlike wonder. Yes

[00:23:45] You can be an adult and still enjoy life and have fun and have magic in the world

[00:23:50] The ending of the story that conclusion is when they Wendy gives that in some capacity to her parents

[00:23:56] Yeah, the death of the top of ghost. I remember this one. I was a kid. Yeah exactly

[00:24:01] So what is this movie the Peter Pan and Wendy the modern version

[00:24:06] Just to give it its deal was it what is it trying to say?

[00:24:12] We're like that that pulp fiction me

[00:24:14] Yeah, I don't know there's no like

[00:24:21] Girls are just as good as guys

[00:24:26] But in here's I think that's a worthy point to make

[00:24:30] Okay, that's what I was gonna say not in this movie the things that they're saying

[00:24:34] I agree with

[00:24:36] Racial diversity

[00:24:39] Obviously yeah

[00:24:41] The proper representation between men and women

[00:24:45] All of this yes 100% these are biblical values

[00:24:49] These are things that happen in the kingdom of God

[00:24:51] This is not what Peter Pan is about no

[00:24:54] So yeah, why take the why take the

[00:24:58] Peter Pan and put on this other

[00:25:02] Overlaid message let's kind of I know this is me being a pastor

[00:25:06] But there's this biblical hermeneutic

[00:25:08] Yeah, principle of interpretation

[00:25:11] Called exegetical constancy and I

[00:25:15] Strongly disagree with this and it's this that

[00:25:20] Through the different passages of scripture the same symbols always mean the same thing. Oh, yeah

[00:25:26] He's I've talked to you guys about this like so in one parable

[00:25:31] The birds the crows or whatever

[00:25:33] Pick at the seeds of the word of God right they eat it away

[00:25:37] They steal it away like the enemy right in another parable the crows nest in the mustard tree

[00:25:43] Right and so exegetical constancy says birds bad here birds bad here

[00:25:51] That's wrong

[00:25:53] Frankly the better view is this story means this

[00:25:58] This story means this and that's my point is that these they're importing

[00:26:04] Story beats themes and messages

[00:26:09] That are fine

[00:26:11] But they're importing it from one story and putting it into a foreign story

[00:26:15] It and it feels like the body is just wants to reject that surgical

[00:26:21] Procedure and go no

[00:26:23] That's not what Peter Pan is Peter Pan

[00:26:26] Speaks to boyhood it speaks to womanhood it speaks to

[00:26:31] Imagination youth growing up it speaks and it has very spit I mean this is a very preachy fairy tale

[00:26:37] I think and the images of it are actually

[00:26:41] Quite readily available for most people right this that's why I think it's lived for a hundred years

[00:26:47] But if you import other messages and go like for example when she flies at the end after walking the plank and

[00:26:55] Says this magic belongs to no boy

[00:26:59] That's not what is that meat? Why would this character in this place say that thing?

[00:27:05] There's no motivation to say that other than

[00:27:08] one of the writers

[00:27:10] Pled one of his messages or her messages from another story and put it in over here

[00:27:15] And that's just like that's wrong. That's not how you tell stories you let each story say its own thing

[00:27:22] The outcome of this kind of way of storytelling to make sense with it's called exegetical

[00:27:28] Constancy Constancy I could see this being both in the biblical stories in another stories where

[00:27:35] You say birds bad and this one over here when that's clearly not the message that can either make you go

[00:27:41] I don't get it

[00:27:42] I don't understand or you get like really radicalized right and now you're all about this whole idea

[00:27:48] That I've come up with about birds being bad over here and in the same with Peter Pan it does kind of seem like I'm on the side where I'm like

[00:27:55] That was just a boring movie. I just am like kind of right, but then there is this other side that you could see it kind of

[00:28:02] It kind of of let's a fire under radicalization. Yeah, it's making it's kind of inciting you what we say

[00:28:09] Push for something well I think you say

[00:28:11] What's one of the cliches that we say like

[00:28:15] Bad things hidden under every rock or you see bad things in every corner? I don't know there's we have phrases for that right

[00:28:22] Like you just tend to see the negative and everything or whatever right that's what I think it fosters

[00:28:28] It fosters oh you see these themes in every single thing you watch. Oh you see this kind of

[00:28:34] You know massage knee or or patriarchy in every it's almost like it's saying this was the same as the other one

[00:28:40] We're just pointing it out right and you're like no, and you're like no, that's not true

[00:28:45] Yeah, so wow interesting and let me just speak to some of the more controversial things all absorbed the controversy here. Thank you

[00:28:53] So the Peter Pan since it was created has been

[00:28:58] Criticized for his portrayal of certain people group specifically native Americans

[00:29:02] Now J. and Barry was British

[00:29:05] British and so he had very much a different relationship to Native American cultures than Americans

[00:29:12] But but the thing is

[00:29:14] What he's speaking to is something I did as a kid which is play Cowboys and Indians

[00:29:22] When you play Cowboys and Indians what are you doing you're tapping into a kind of

[00:29:27] mythological American story like as we progressed westward we fought the Indians blah blah

[00:29:34] It's just like I don't know historical thing it's largely false but sometimes true

[00:29:39] It's I don't know it's an American myth right we fought the Indians and we won or whatever

[00:29:44] You know remember the alamo. I don't know but it's a game that kids play Cowboys and Indians right

[00:29:49] Here's another game they play who's gonna be a pirate we got to fight the pirates that's another game

[00:29:55] Other things mermaid what are mermaids? They're like at times they're depicted as images of sexual

[00:30:02] You know sure there's the sirens. They're different sirens. It's the Caribbean it's the same same thing yeah exactly

[00:30:09] So anyways my point is Peter Pan is in an eternal war with the Indians

[00:30:15] What does that mean?

[00:30:17] Playing Cowboys and Indians playing Cowboys in India's forever. Yeah, so while the original one may it may have some truly

[00:30:24] Offensive depictions. Yes the point and I think that we can as modern people with a little bit more sensibilities

[00:30:31] Correct that it's still saying the same thing that this is a foolish endeavor

[00:30:36] That's always do exactly young boys are in this eternal battle with Cowboys and Indians and they shouldn't be

[00:30:44] That's the point and

[00:30:46] Young boys are constantly fighting Captain Hook. They're what are they doing? They're fighting adulthood

[00:30:52] They're fighting the tyranny of adulthood gone wrong. They're they're in this constant battle and it's never ending

[00:30:58] Young boys are constantly looking with lust at these images of sexuality and they're just like oh, yeah

[00:31:03] That's what I'd rather have than grow up

[00:31:06] So to me it's like yes correct the depictions

[00:31:10] But don't lose the point you're kind of correcting what's really true is that

[00:31:16] Things are wrong they're trying to almost write the wrong thing it's telling a story of

[00:31:22] Horrible things that people do I mean even the historical

[00:31:25] Aspective Americans and Indians, right? It's tragedy yeah and you're like

[00:31:30] That but that happened so what do you just knock and tell that story? You know you're trying to like save the wrong thing

[00:31:36] It's actually we're actually pointing at that and saying it's bad. Yeah to add to like a

[00:31:42] Peter Pan adaptation that's so loud within this conversation is hook

[00:31:47] Hook is a live action Peter Pan adaptation with a twist on the story

[00:31:53] Structs a theme. D constructs the themes is still faithful to the themes the main point is still the main point

[00:31:59] And removes the stereotypes the boys still play

[00:32:04] Cowboys and Indians

[00:32:05] But it's not operating off of

[00:32:08] Offensive stereotypes that are degrading to Native Americans and in watch it hook

[00:32:15] Do that movie

[00:32:17] Whoa you've never seen hook no

[00:32:20] He's got such joy ahead

[00:32:23] You live with such hope

[00:32:27] Your future is so bright

[00:32:29] It's got this movie and Zuko this is the same movie director by Steven Spielberg do this movie

[00:32:37] To quote jayman this movie slaps

[00:32:40] It really is it's the movie that this movie could not be yeah really is

[00:32:45] Which it baffles me that Peter Pan and Wendy was even made when hook exists?

[00:32:52] So the way it deconstructs the themes is that the theme is that Peter

[00:32:58] Eventually came back to from Neverland along with all the laws to the real world and he grew up and he became pirate is

[00:33:07] Right so he has to make a trek back to Neverland

[00:33:11] To rediscover the spirit of youth of Peter man

[00:33:15] So somehow they somehow they convey that without saying oh he's going back to eternal boyhood

[00:33:21] That's not it. He's just recovering the spirit of Peter Pan

[00:33:25] And while still being a grown up which is kind of like what grown-up still watching the movie exactly that's why Peter Pan and its themes is so rich

[00:33:34] Yes Peter Pan is eternal boyhood and yes ideologically. That's incorrect

[00:33:39] But at the same time we also

[00:33:42] Yeah, which Wendy maintains even in hook in hook she's like 95 years old

[00:33:48] Maggie Smith who still 95 years old

[00:33:52] Down that beat yeah Harry Potter. She's just the same age forever

[00:33:57] But she's she plays Wendy as an old woman who still maintains the spirit of youth yes, it's brilliant

[00:34:04] It's brilliant okay and adults that are like that I still need to watch it

[00:34:08] Yeah

[00:34:10] Yeah, I was thinking I brought

[00:34:13] Crinn and I went to our in laws the other day so Kurns folks my wife and um my father and law dug was like playing with my little kid

[00:34:22] Rowan and he was picked him up and it was like teaching him how to run around the house and he was

[00:34:28] Being a kid

[00:34:30] He had the child like spirit and it was so fun

[00:34:34] That to me it's such a beautiful thing when adults can just be like

[00:34:38] Let's be kids. I don't know like yeah, it's not like only talk about serious things and

[00:34:44] Be boring and it has a sit down at times time and place yeah, totally yeah, there was a time and place to like

[00:34:51] Pick up your grandson and

[00:34:53] Plan the garden with him you know, or just laugh at him crawling so what what did you think then of this film

[00:35:01] Trying to take some of those themes

[00:35:03] I don't know and maybe I don't know what they're trying to do deep in them so hook

[00:35:07] Used to be a lost boy

[00:35:10] Right, but he

[00:35:12] What went back to the real world grew up came back

[00:35:16] Right, because of his trauma he and

[00:35:19] But Peter Pan cut off his hand. I

[00:35:24] Couldn't fathom it I had

[00:35:26] I didn't understand that I was like I hate Peter

[00:35:30] I hate hook

[00:35:31] I don't like Wendy because I don't really understand where she comes. I don't like anybody

[00:35:36] Hey everybody in this movie it's really true

[00:35:40] So fortunate the person I liked or

[00:35:44] Disliked the least so I didn't like him, but I didn't I hated him the least was hook

[00:35:51] Right and I still did not super like him. I think it was partially just the actor playing him

[00:35:58] I have more of a relationship other than Jim Gaffigan Jim is so good just in there is Jim Gaffigan

[00:36:03] I think he could as Mr. Snow you know, no, I don't think I appeared at the 953 version. Oh, it didn't even kind of do the voice

[00:36:13] Oh, we should

[00:36:17] Because I saw Jim Gaffigan warn me you were like a Jim Gaffigan's and he's me and so I was waiting for him to do a voice and he's like

[00:36:23] And have pocket you know, he just did his normal thing

[00:36:28] No one talked

[00:36:30] Browder. No, no, no this even Peter's like it's good. Oh, yeah Peter Peter was reading a teleprompter behind the camera

[00:36:38] Every lie for real he's like I love being me

[00:36:43] All as I'll get

[00:36:46] So okay so Captain Hook has this deeper motivation

[00:36:51] Here's where I got truly confused he kills Peter you know

[00:36:56] Violet way

[00:36:58] Oh

[00:37:00] Right I suggest yikes

[00:37:02] I don't know how Peter came back to life

[00:37:05] No cuz the Native American woman went there and rubbed them on some is

[00:37:10] Yeah, I don't know what that meant you know in an interview the girl who plays guitar really

[00:37:18] I remember she's crey crey native American. That's the tribe

[00:37:22] So she's like oh yeah the original Peter bands like my favorite movie

[00:37:27] Oh man, this is so ironic

[00:37:31] But but yeah her character I think was lost on it. She

[00:37:36] She turned into like a girl boss which is cool like she reminds me of the character in the predator the new predator and prey

[00:37:43] Movie that was phenomenal. I thought seen it. I hear this is a good predator for this

[00:37:48] Sing this one native American girl with an axe. Yeah tremendous

[00:37:52] But it reminded me of that and to me it was like okay cool

[00:37:56] But I don't know who Tiger Lily is for this story anymore

[00:38:00] But um so Peter comes back to life

[00:38:03] The part that really

[00:38:05] Truly made me face palm was the climax

[00:38:09] The finale of the movie

[00:38:11] So when Peter's holding on to hook and apologizeing yeah and saying sorry and he's like crying for a

[00:38:17] What he did to him in the past the problem fundamentally is

[00:38:21] The emotional depth of your film happened in a

[00:38:25] In the past off-screen. I never saw it. I don't know what happened between them right

[00:38:30] I have a vague idea but it was only described in exposition you're trying to cash in on an

[00:38:36] Emotional bank that happened off-screen

[00:38:39] Right, and it doesn't work right you know what I mean yeah so anyways

[00:38:43] Peter apologizes

[00:38:44] I'm like oh

[00:38:46] If Captain Hook

[00:38:48] Reckon they reconciled I'd go oh that's a different take interesting

[00:38:53] The madacly cohesive right but he still fell off. Yeah, so Peter's holding hook and he's like you can fly just have

[00:39:01] Happy memories and then we'll be reunited in reconciled and hook goes

[00:39:06] I don't have happy memories and then his hook falls off and which may be go-

[00:39:10] Poor guy yeah, he has no happy memories is probably Peter's fault. I'm imagining it

[00:39:17] Remove my favorite scene from the cartoon which is at the fairy end when he's standing in the crocodile

[00:39:23] Jaws and he's at

[00:39:28] He bites really fast

[00:39:35] That is so

[00:39:36] Oh

[00:39:44] Okay, so Peter pans written by J.M. Barry

[00:39:48] Brilliant storyteller obviously Peter Pan in the public consciousness for a century

[00:39:53] Whoa yep, okay well the 1953 film is overseen by Walt

[00:40:00] Who is another J.M. Barry?

[00:40:03] Like he's a once-in-o-generation guy right story teller brilliant people

[00:40:07] We have people like that still they're around

[00:40:11] But they didn't make this movie

[00:40:13] Mm-hmm. This is the problem I think the fundamental problem is that

[00:40:16] The storytellers are not trying they don't know

[00:40:21] What a story is meant to do it reminds me of like let's say like the sermon on the mount Matthew six

[00:40:29] Jesus has these points he's making

[00:40:31] Right now let's take Matthew six and just plug it right in to Matthew 13

[00:40:36] Right, but Matthew 13 Jesus is telling stories parables one after another, right?

[00:40:41] You cannot take the sermon on the mount and put it in Matthew 13

[00:40:45] It doesn't work a story is not a sermon

[00:40:47] And that's one of the problems is that

[00:40:50] Walt Disney J.M. Barry knew this they their story tellers

[00:40:54] This one is told by preachers or something

[00:40:57] Where they have some message from some other source and they're just

[00:41:01] Ploppin it in in the middle of the scene and it just it feels preachy. It's a really devaluing

[00:41:08] Story take a cue from Jesus people what a good storyteller and what he accomplish to those stories

[00:41:15] She this has been how to watch the movies a Christian

[00:41:19] Well, I'm J.M. No no no see a church there it is there we go cool

[00:41:27] You