The More I Preach, the More I Need to Pray — Brian Davis

[00:00:00] We don't show the verses on the screens, we tell them to open their Bibles and we don't have the music on the screen or anything. It's a bit annoying but we print out the lyrics. Kind of very old school and just keep it really, really simple and that's been a blessing. Hey, welcome to the Expositors Collective Podcast Episode 456. I'm your host Mike Neglia

[00:00:27] and the voice that you just heard is that of Brian Davis. Brian is a pastor and church planter in County Clare, Ireland. He is currently serving at Killrush Community Church, which is a brand new work in County Clare and he previously served as a pastor and elder at North Clare Community Church.

[00:00:53] So in this conversation, Brian talks about preaching to a surprisingly remarkably diverse congregation in his small West Clare town. He speaks about his journey from New Age spirituality to trusting scripture and now leading in Christ's church. And why the longer he preaches, the more he needs to pray.

[00:01:21] I think you're going to appreciate his honesty and his desire to help people open the Bible for themselves. So here's my conversation with Brian Davis. Hey, welcome to the Expositors Collective Podcast. I'm here with my fellow Irish church planter, Brian Davis. Hey. But you're more Irish than I am.

[00:01:50] I am. I'm born in America. Me too. Yeah. High five. You're born in America? I was born in New Jersey. I never could have guessed from your accent. Well, like Irish people hear my American accent. Americans do not hear my American accent. That's true. But I was only there since I was like there till I was five and then I moved. Yeah. I moved to Ireland. Wild. Yeah, there you go. Didn't know that. But your legacy is from here.

[00:02:17] My mother is 100% Irish. My father's a mishmash of everything. Okay. And we got right back to Gronja Whale, the pirate queen of Ireland. Yeah. She's my ancestor. Yeah. Very Irish. From Kinsale? No, no, no. Connemara. Okay. Yeah. There's a different pirate queen. You Cork people. Always want to claim everything. Okay. Okay. You're a Cork person now. I've lived in Cork for 23 years. Cork people, they're very balanced people. Oh.

[00:02:47] You know that. They've got a chip on both shoulders. Wow. Wow. Okay. That's enough joking. I've been... Okay. So, Brian. We can joke some more. I must have... In the introduction of this, I would have... I'll record a podcast introduction that explains a little bit about who you are and where you're ministering, but you are currently planting... Is it planting? Planting a church. You're currently planting a church. Yeah. So, you're leading a work.

[00:03:16] You've been involved in, I guess, a couple... Like, years worth of ministry, and now you're launching into a plant. A new era. That's right. That's exciting. Yeah. It is exciting. It is. Well, I'd love to talk about that, but first, the first question always is, Brian Davis, do you remember the first time you ever taught the Bible? I do. I do. The first time properly teaching...

[00:03:41] The first time being asked, I remember my pastor asked me to teach on John just to share something on it, and I went there and I chickened out. You did? I did. I was just like, ah, I'll do it later, and he's like, that's what we had planned for tonight. And so, I actually chickened out. So, you didn't chicken out in the weeks leading up to it? It was a meeting week. No, he kind of asked me just a few days beforehand. I was like, ah, no, no. I'm the knight, like. Really? But I was only a new believer.

[00:04:09] Like, you know, I didn't really know anything, but... So, anyway, that was that, but... I hate that so much. It's such a sad thing. It's just the worst. That's the worst. Then, what did I do? Do you remember what happened that night instead? I think we just kind of opened up some scriptures and prayed and sang, you know? And it wasn't very memorable in that sense, but I remembered I was a bit sad after that. I was like, I shouldn't have, but I wasn't ready. It was definitely not ready, and I needed more maturing to do before that anyway.

[00:04:38] Then the first time I taught kind of on a Sunday was for Christmas service. Oh, yeah, really? Yeah, so that was interesting, and it was fun to do. And then after that, I was... I consider my first time preaching was kind of a Psalm 1. Okay. That was my first time. Okay. Doing a, you know, Christmas is different, you know, like, you know yourself. But it isn't, but it is. Yeah. So... Well, oftentimes churches have a bigger crowd around Christmas time.

[00:05:08] Yeah. Was it on Christmas Day? Was it... It was very close to Christmas Day. Okay, okay. Yeah. So was there a larger crowd than usual? Yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And there's a lot of pressure, you know. Yeah. That's, you know, when you're... I think my pastor was delighted that the pressure wasn't on him. Yeah. He was very, very grateful. Yeah. Because so much things were happening at the time, and it was a blessing to be able to do that.

[00:05:33] But I remember teaching Psalm 1, and I remember studying and studying and studying and studying it, and totally not getting the message at all of it. And I was trying to bring it, mix it with Ephesians, you know. Okay. About walking and standing and, you know, and sitting. Yeah. And that's in Ephesians. And that was like, that was my focus was that. And 12.30 at night, it just clicked to me. It's like, it's not that at all. And I was just so overjoyed.

[00:06:02] I kind of danced. It's like, oh, it's this and that. Yeah. And very different. Very, you know. And I really... And then teaching it, I was... Yeah. I remember it was... It was okay. I don't know. I think I got some good responses. Yeah. I think. I can't really remember, but... Yeah. It's funny to me how that moment of it clicking at 12.30 at night is more memorable than the actual delivery of it, huh? Yeah. Absolutely. Because it's like, oh, you know, you have that kind of... Yeah, it's a kind of epiphany. This is what it's about.

[00:06:32] Yeah. And then you can see then... And it really helped me just understand all the Psalms, getting the first Psalm right, and then seeing what the rest of the Psalms is about. So, yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. They say, yeah, Psalm 1 is kind of the entry point. It's like the welcome mat into the rest of the Psalms. You understand that? Yeah. And then I continued to teach the Psalms then for about three years. Did you? Yeah. Couldn't like one after the other or... No, just randomly. Okay. You know. You were a Psalm guy. A Psalm guy. Once a month, I was teaching the Psalms.

[00:07:02] And I loved it. Every week, every time I thought, I was like, this is my new favorite Psalm. Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's really great. That's good. That's great. Now, okay. So your first time, you're a brand new believer and chickened out. Then fast forward a couple of months, about a year. Yeah. And then it's Christmas and you're in a Christmas sermon. Mm-hmm. And then Psalm one. And then it's kind of a monthly thing. A monthly thing. Yeah. Yeah. No.

[00:07:29] And I suppose, correct me if I'm wrong, but like you, I guess, identify, you know, as part of like the broader like Calvary Chapel family of churches. Is that... The broader... Yeah. I would identify as Calvary Chapel. I went to Bible College in York, Calvary Chapel Bible College. Yeah. And... I'm not trying to like quiz you or put you under... I'm just kind of saying what Calvary Chapel is famous for is putting people in ministry right away. Yes.

[00:07:56] Sometimes, sometimes it's like an absolute success and it's the right thing to do and the Lord's hand is in it. But my... Sometimes it's like... My pastor was... A flaming like... Pastor, you know, Steve. Of course, Steve. Yeah. And he was a phenomenal man. He, he was Assemblies of God. Sure. So he would have kind of come in kind of into kind of Calvary. Yeah. A little bit later on. Sure. So we still had... Like people in, in Bible College would ask me, what's your denomination of your church? Yes.

[00:08:25] And I would say, we pray Pentecostal, but we teach Calvary Chapel. Yeah. Yeah. And so I like that. I kind of still hold to that. Okay. And I should say Calvary is not the only group that like, launches people into ministry quick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's just, I've, that's what I've interviewed hundreds, hundreds of preachers. And usually it's the Calvary guys that are like, well, I wasn't ready, but I just got... But that's what you do. You, you push them and, you know, you push them into the water and see if they can swim.

[00:08:55] If not, you throw a lifeboat. And then, and then some would be, you know, in seminary for seven years. And then after seven years of seminary, they get to do their first sermon and it's like, well, you know. Yeah. I've just become a basketball coach of Kill Rush, you know, the under 13s. And I send a text to my other coaches saying, we've got a match, you know, and a blitz, they're called, where all the, all the teams come together.

[00:09:23] And one of the other coaches says, but we're not ready. We're not ready. You know, it's, it's going to be disaster. We can't do this. And I said, well, we don't, A, we don't know what the other team is like. And B, they're going to learn more doing this than anything. So I think, you know, when you're not ready, it's good, you know, in one, one regard, I guess. Brian, that's really heartwarming. That's, that's a good, okay. So I always ask about your first time teaching and you kind of gave me three different slices of that.

[00:09:51] And then the next question is always like, how have you grown since then? It's been a number of years and you went from, you know, the monthly psalm to, you know, fast forward and now you're like planting, leading. Is it, what's it called? Kill Rush Christian Fellowship? Kill Rush Christian Fellowship Church. KFC will be great. But we joked about that.

[00:10:19] No, it's Kill Rush Community Church. Okay. Okay. So, yeah. And, and so you're spearheading that you're doing the majority or all of the teaching of that? All of the teaching of that for now. We hope to get people, you know, I'm just seeing what the gifts of the people are like. And yeah, there's a couple of guys definitely could teach. Wonderful. So, yeah. So a big journey, like in that journey, what are the things you've learned? You know, what are the bad habits that you stopped doing?

[00:10:48] Is there anything intentionally that you've started doing that's like helped you, I think, as a, as a Bible teacher or preacher? Yeah. So doing it like from teaching, you know, in my last church with John and Peter, we were three pastors in, in, in three pastors in one. Sounds very much like the Trinity. Three pastors for the, for it. And it was, it was phenomenal. But I really, you know, it was very obvious that the Lord was calling us because it was

[00:11:17] a good hour away from, from that church. The Lord was calling us in Kilrush. And so having to teach every single week, it's been a blessing because you never, you have to make a good rhythm, you know? Sure. So before like, you'd have like a couple of weeks off, you know, before you sort of get around to teaching again, where this is like, I have to develop a good rhythm. Um, and sometimes I have it really good and sometimes not so good.

[00:11:45] And you know, um, it's, uh, like when I, we spoke the other day, you said, oh, I'm just finishing my, my sermon prep. And it was Thursday. Yeah. My draft. Your draft. And then you said you send it out to the elders. Yes. And I was like, wow, that's like, that's like so miles away from where I'm at. I was like, I'm like Friday is my sort of day of doing the sermon. You had yours done on Thursday. So you start on Fridays. Well, no, I don't start on Fridays.

[00:12:13] I start like basically Monday where I'm kind of, uh, I read the passage, read the whole context and, and, uh, I might listen to like a couple of good preachers on, on that as well. And, uh, and then really Friday is kind of when I'm putting it together. Yeah. You know, so I have, I'll be thinking about it during the week and, uh, you know, and then yeah, Friday putting it together.

[00:12:37] And then Saturday, um, it's a kind of a chill day, but spend a little bit of time and then get up very early on Sunday. But I was very impressed with you. You send it off to the elders and you get feedback from them. Is that sometimes not like not, not always. The purpose of you sending it to the elders is to kind of proofread it or. Yeah. Yeah. So they, they proofread it. Um, uh, sometimes making suggestions like, oh, maybe this could be in this order.

[00:13:06] Uh, more often than not, it's kind of just like, oh, it's, it's like, um, have you thought of quoting this verse here? Or that reminds me of this, you know? So sometimes it's like structural changes, but more often than not, it's, it's kind of, it's more like, here's some more verses that could go here. Here's some things that I think about. How long have you been doing that? Uh, in like, since, since like 2020, it was kind of a COVID thing.

[00:13:34] Um, and, and, and it ebbs and flows. It really ebbs and flows. And in fact, I missed two weeks in a row. Like, uh, last week I missed it. And the week before that I missed it. So I'm not on top of things all the time, but I finished it on Friday and then I sent it out on Friday. So I missed, I missed the Thursday deadline, but I still did it. And, and it's just kind of a, you know, uh, now again, there's some elders that get it

[00:13:59] every week and I don't know if they even open the Google drive file or not, you know, I don't even know if they ever open it. But you've done your thing. I feel like I've, I've sent it out. It's not kind of a last minute panic. So if you make a complete mess of it and they never respond to you, it's their fault. Yeah. Because they never told you. Yes. But you've been, you've been doing, I don't make a mess of it. I'm just kidding. So 20 years you've, you've had this church, you've been planting here for 20 years. In fact, uh, 21 years.

[00:14:29] What, what's the date? Is today the, is today the 18th? Uh, no, it's the 7th. 7th? Oh. I don't know. Anyway, I think, I think, I think like tomorrow or something is 21 years from my first Sunday. So, well, yeah. So, you know, you know, um, I shouldn't think too bad if I don't have a whole lot of elders to send it to just yet. Yeah. So that, that's the thing. Like go back to your question. Like, like the pressure. You're like in this pioneer mode. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:57] So it's like, and I'm like, oh, I remember that. I can have a cigar mode and hey, all right. The good old days. Yeah. It's like, uh, I put a whole lot of pressure when I first started trying to get everything to be the same as the church, the other church. Yeah. Right. Because that's the only model that I, that's the only model I know really. Which had this like triumvirate. Yes. But we had like, you know, the speakers, the guys on the sound, we had the, the laptops

[00:15:25] out for the screen and da, da, da, da, and all that kind of stuff, which is always quite kind of stressful in the other church trying to organize that. And, uh, and, and anyway, that was like a big thing to have that right. And to do everything the same as that. Yeah. And, uh, we just kind of just let go of that. And we're like, you know what? I don't need a microphone. I need a microphone for this. I'm just gonna make sure I'm pointing it out the right way. Uh, don't need a microphone. I can project my voice. Yeah.

[00:15:53] In fact, I was speaking to, um, Dave Sylvester yesterday and we were talking to, I don't know what he said. I told him that we don't have a microphone. He was asking how church was and, and, and all that. And then he said, Hey, you should do these vocal training things. I was like, really? Yeah. And then he was going over the phone laughing. It's like 70 years old guy, great preacher over the phone. And I'm doing it back to him. Have you done that before? Have you tried? Never. Never.

[00:16:22] I'm not going to go out. Just, it says it loosens and relaxes the voice so you can project your voice and all this kind of vocal training. Anyway. Um, so we kind of try to simplify everything down to, we don't do, um, we don't show the verses on the screens. We tell them to open their Bibles and, uh, and we don't have the music on, on the screen or anything. We just, we, we, it's a bit annoying, but we print out the lyrics. Yeah.

[00:16:52] Uh, kind of very old school and just keep it really, really simple. And that's been a blessing. Uh, mind you now we are noticing we need, we do need a microphone for my wife when she leads worship. Okay. So we're at that stage where I teach Sheely's worship and she does children's ministry. Oh yeah. I've been there. She's doing all that and, you know, and everything else. But, um, yeah. So that's where we're at really. So it would be kind of an odd look though, if there was a microphone and then she used

[00:17:20] it and you didn't, or is that, but then I think once, once you introduce the microphone, would you probably will use it as well? It depends because when all the kids go out, it's kind of quieter. Oh, okay. And I, my voice is loud, you know, and you know, she, she just doesn't want to strain her voice, you know? Got it. So what, maybe, maybe, I don't know. So what I'm hearing you say is, so I'm asking about like, you know, changing and preaching over the years and you're withholding that insight thus far.

[00:17:46] But you're saying, you're saying in, in leading this new church plant that you've, you're like letting go of the previous model or even the previous level of, yeah. This is what it was. In my other church. Yes. I knew everybody. Yeah. Well, most people, apart from the new people coming in and they were mostly very, and I know they're all very solid Christians, you know what I mean? And very much in the word and they know our style of preaching and everything else.

[00:18:14] We're planting this new church, new work, and we got people from all around the world. So half of them, more than half of them, English isn't their first language. Yeah. Because you're like in very rural, like you're in Kilrush, like West Clare. Kilrush is like, it's like a, it's like a city, but it's like, it feels like an inner city in the countryside. Yeah. Okay. It's, it's kind of a, it's a, it's a rough old town, as they say. Okay. And, but it's, it's, it's a beautiful place.

[00:18:44] It's really lovely. Um, so we have, so yeah, so I, I found myself, it's like, it's like they're not, they're very different to people coming from different, um, sort of denominations and different styles of teaching. Yeah. And I kind of have to try and communicate and try to find a way to communicate with everyone. So you're, my yawning is now contagious to you. I'm very tired. You said you're wide awake a minute ago. Very interested in what you're saying, apart from the yawning in the middle of the story

[00:19:14] of your step of faith and reaching the nations for Christ. Reaching, reaching the nations for Christ in Kilrush, you know, uh, which is mad because it is a little country town. Uh, Cachmendary is about 25,000. So for West Clare, the town itself is about 3,000 people, I think. Um, and, um, they all come to church. No, I just, I wish.

[00:19:38] Um, but, um, yeah, so it's, it, that's, that was the challenge for me is, is, is different languages. There was a lot of Ukrainians. We have lots of Brazilians and there's people from Cameroon, people from Uganda. We got Nigerian lads. Yeah. And, you know, we have, there's Anglicans, we got, um, um, um, you know, the Presbyterians

[00:20:06] from Pentecostals, Baptists, Catholics, all different coming in and they all kind of expect what church is about. And so here, you know, you are like preaching sort of, you know, expositary preaching, which we, which they may not be used to at all. Sure. Um, and so it's like, they're like, why is he going to so much detail and reading everything, every verse or, you know, all these kind of thoughts go through your mind like that.

[00:20:33] But what's beautiful, it is I kind of found my sort of, um, my groove, would you say that? Okay. In the teaching and kind of how to communicate to the, to this particular, this group, you know? And, uh, so I learned off a few Brazilian words. I learned a few, uh, Ukrainian words. Yeah. And I try and throw them in. It kind of, it's kind of pops their attention again. And yeah. Rosamish, which means do you understand in Ukrainian? And they're like, yes. Okay. Good, good.

[00:21:03] Comprende? Yes. Okay. Let's keep going. And I'm trying to keep that energy going because it can sound extremely boring. Have you ever tried to listen to a sermon in another language? Yes. What happened? It's kind of boring. Yes. So you got to kind of, I had to animate. I'm trying to speak with my hands and speak with my thing. And it's, it's a bit of a workout, you know, afterwards. And, uh, you know, so, yeah. So that's part of your, your journey that you're in. You got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:32] Now those that are listening, yeah, might be surprised that in a rural, rural town, it is so diverse as you're, as you're mentioning, but yeah, there's, yeah. Shifting demographics in Ireland. Uh, I think 20% of people living in Ireland right now were not born here. You and I. And we're two of them. Yeah. But I do feel very Irish. People would believe that I'm not born here and people wouldn't believe that you, that you weren't. But yeah. So there's different, very different. Yeah.

[00:21:59] The world is changing and wild in Ireland, especially so at a rapid rate. Um, and I've tried to explain this to people before too. Like, I guess, yeah, that kind of the, the church scene, you know, that it is, it's, it's quite broad, you know, like there's, there's not a lot of evangelicals. Um, and there's also not a lot of churches, but like the ones that have some kind of like Christian background, yeah, they kind of come and they expect it to be like how it is back home.

[00:22:24] And then I think it's kind of, it's worth fighting for to say like, actually this church, these are our values. This is what we're doing. Yeah. I know you'd prefer if it was like this, but if we accommodate you, we're going to like deviate from the mission God's called us to, or the DNA that this church has. And so that's kind of a challenging thing, especially in those early years or when the church is small and when like, you know, when there's like two people and then those people represent like 10% of your congregation and they want you to do this.

[00:22:52] It's like, yeah, got to like really dig in and be like, actually God bless you, but we're not going to do that. So that's kind of a challenging thing. Well, one thing I've done, um, kind of the opposite is to kind of try and bring in a little bit of their culture into it. Okay. So like I have the, my Nigerian lads and I love, I've always loved the choruses they sing and they're nice and simple and you can repeat them and then you sing over and, you know, loops around them and stuff.

[00:23:21] And I try and encourage them to do that at the end of the service. I say, brother, would you lead us in a chorus? Yeah. And I love it. They love it. They get right into it and it really encourages them. And then I might ask, can we have a prayer in Brazilian? I have no idea what they're praying. Yes. I just trust the Holy Spirit that it's good. And then I ask for a prayer in Ukrainian at the end. And so we haven't a mishmash. We are multicultural. So we're just trying to bring that in. But I'm, I'm not. Yeah.

[00:23:50] But the preaching obviously is, is in English and I'll, you know, we keep to the, the style of teaching, you know, this way. But Brian, yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's, I'm, I'm learning something new and we're doing it differently. Yeah. Okay. So you are sticking to the pre, you're not, you're not changing the preaching. And so what is your preaching philosophy? You kind of mentioned expository, like how'd you come across expository teaching?

[00:24:18] You said some people think it's weird as they first encounter it. Well, it's just. Did you think it was weird when you first encountered it? No, I, I loved it. Okay. Um, um, I love, I loved it. And, and, you know, listening to Chuck Smith, it was just, it's just so beautiful. Like, you know, you're just like, wow. How'd you come across him? Chuck. Yeah. Um, well, to the Bible college. Okay. Uh, we had to listen to Chuck tracks. Okay. And you've done that, I'm sure. I, I, yes, that's right. Yeah.

[00:24:46] And I, I, I listened to, um, slow. I didn't do what everyone else did. They sped it up, sped up his voice. Yeah. I listened to the normal tone. So just to put it out there, listen to him normally, um, and, and other preachers and things like that. And I just thought it was amazing just hearing the word just taught so well and seeing the context and how it's all, you know, all interrelated and so beautiful, you know, and, and, you know, um, it's what, what the author is intended.

[00:25:17] Yeah. Yeah. So someone, you know, my, my background would have been very new agey, you know, spiritual stuff. Okay. So when I first became a Christian, that's what I thought it was exciting for me. It's just like this or just like Buddha or just like, you know, this kind of thing. And then after a while I was like, no, this is very different. And then hearing the teaching, it's like, no, this is, this is definitely unique and this is beautiful. So, um, yeah. And what was the other part of the question?

[00:25:46] So you encountered expository preaching. Yeah. Via Bible college. And also my Bible. Probably before that. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Like Steve was doing that. My pastor was doing that. But as I took, I counted Chuck Smith at Bible college. You're right. And my pastor was teaching. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He was teaching, um, verse by verse. Yes. Book by book. Yeah. Going through the Bible. And so you, you kind of jumped straight out of like, can your new age mysticism into,

[00:26:16] you know, expository preaching, praying like Pentecostals, preaching like Calvary Chapel. And was that kind of jarring to go from the, the one, I don't know, spiritual community to the other? Or I mean, to call it, go from darkness to light. Yes, indeed. Well, this is, this is like a testimony really, you know, yeah, it is a, um, so I was deeply

[00:26:44] in rooted in, in all that, the new agey stuff. So, um, I would have been, um, like a guru of sorts in a way in that area for the Qigong healing. And, um, so coming out of that to, you know, it took a long time, a good year for so many of the philosophies and so many of the things that I had to kind of line it up with God's word. Yeah.

[00:27:09] And Pastor Steve is phenomenal at, um, disciple, uh, discipling someone. And he really just honed in on myself and John as well, you know, and, uh, yeah, the Lord knows we needed it. And, um, um, it was, I was very blessed like that to really kind of point it back to the scripture, back to Jesus, back to God, you know? Um, yeah.

[00:27:34] So yeah, it, you know, my, my brain needed, uh, I remember someone saying to me, you're being brainwashed, you know, you ever heard that? You guys are getting, I said, well, I need my brain to be washed, to be honest. I needed cleans. I needed to change all that. And, and it's, it's, it's a spiritual, it was very much a spiritual bottle, but a long time I remember not believing in the devil, like, you know, and then I asked God to show me, and that was a terrifying thing. I won't get into that now, but I was like, okay, now I know the devil is real.

[00:28:04] Now I can believe in more of the scriptures because, you know, when you don't believe, you know, I believe in this and this and this, but I don't believe in that part of the scripture. You kind of, you know, it does deteriorate, you know, a bit. And then I was like, more and more, I started believing in more and grasping it. Um, you know, that was it. I was all in. I was like, this whole thing is the word of God. Wow. This whole thing is amazing. Wow. So.

[00:28:35] That's, that's great. Thank you for, there's much more to your story than that. Yeah. Thank you for letting us send it. I just don't, I'm not sure where you want the conversation to go or not, you know. Well, I'd love to talk about maybe, um, the idea of, of even teaching and preaching as like a, as a spiritual act, you know, even as we're kind of, you can't even joke about like praying like Pentecostals, but preaching like Calvary Chapel, you know, like

[00:28:59] the idea is that like some people are like, it's more spiritual to pray and you, you know, it's slightly academic to teach and preach. Would you see that distinction? Like what's, what's the spirit of God doing in your teaching or in, in good, in good. I was going to say good teaching. That implies you're not like, but like when the Bible is preached and taught, like what is the spiritual reality? What's taking place there? You're kind of more tuned into that. Hmm. That's good.

[00:29:28] Well, you know, the disciples, like when they asked the Lord, like they asked him, they didn't say to him, teach us how to preach. I said, teach us how to pray. And, um, I find that the more I'm preaching, the more I need to pray. And that's been like huge for me. I, can you say the most successful times or whatever, the, where I feel like the spirit

[00:29:55] was moving and the preaching was good is been when I've been praying more, you know, uh, I'm praying for the church individually in my head, you know, and out loud and praying for everybody and, um, and praying for the word that it would be impactful. That, that's been huge. That's been a real mind, eye opener for me.

[00:30:16] Um, the, and seeing then how, yeah, there's times where I definitely did too much study and I got kind of like, you're kind of just overwhelmed with so much going on in this passage. It's like, which way do I go? You know? And then you try and cram so much in and, you know, cause, cause you want to do it right justice. You want to get everything in, you want to get everyone, you know, get the, the, the,

[00:30:45] the passage, everyone to understand that. And, um, you know, that's, uh, and then I heard that people only retain, you know, 15% of what you say. So I was like, okay, well, that's really interesting. I better find the most important, you know, uh, points in it and make sure that they are clearly most importantly out there rather than, and then pray into that, that that would really, um, impact them.

[00:31:14] Um, so yeah. Does that? Good. Yeah. That's yeah. It's yeah. I'm still learning and growing. Like I, you know what I mean? I, I, I consider myself still a new, even, even though I've been teaching for 10 years, uh, I still consider myself fairly new to this. Like I feel I'm still excited opening up the scriptures as well. Like it's like, Ooh, it's like Christmas morning, opening up your prezzies. You know, I got really excited reading it. Yeah. I'm terrified as well. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I have a terror.

[00:31:44] Sometimes I just like, I'm not ready for this. I, I, I don't know if I can preach this and I'll tell you something, um, just between you and me. Okay. Okay. A couple of weeks ago, I had a, I had a, a terrifying dream, uh, the night before preaching. I dreamt that I was standing at the pulpit and I'm falling asleep, a bit like you and me now. It is late.

[00:32:09] Uh, but I was falling asleep as I was, as I was, as I was preaching. Now I've seen, I've preached before and you see people nodding off. Yeah. They think we can't see them, but we can. But it's terrible when it's the preacher doing it. And my dream, I was like, I'm going to have so much confusion going on. And then underneath me, the floor was cracking and the floor was falling apart. I was, and I had to move closer to the pulpit to, to, to, to, to kind of this. Have you ever had a dream of this? Not really. Okay.

[00:32:37] Anyway, the funny thing is I was at this men's breakfast there last week. And so this happened two weeks ago, this dream. And, uh, at the men's breakfast, we had this kind of question and answer time, or we had to write down a question and we put our hand in the ball and we sat in the group. There's about 60 something men, 70 men. And I was with Shane Angland. I got matched up with him. And so we picked out a question and his question was, what was, what did you dream last night? And do you dream often?

[00:33:06] And I was like, I don't remember last night's dream, but I'll tell you last week's dream. And I told him about this thing and he was like, yeah, bro, that's intense. It's funny because I didn't remember the dream until I was actually in the middle of preaching and I remembered it. And this fear came over me and, uh, it was just like, oh, wow. I was like, oh my goodness. And I was like, oh no, I literally looked on the ground. Am I going to, cause I, I had been so busy those few days beforehand. It was my daughter's birthday.

[00:33:34] We had a big birthday party and I'm, I'm a very social person. If there's someone there, I got to talk to them until they go, you know, and I was up talking to all night and chatting away. And I was like, I had planned to put in my last bit of my notes and hence the dream. I felt I wasn't ready. Now, I don't know why I mentioned that to you, but, uh, it's, it's, it was like that fear and it was telling me, reminding me, you know, don't leave things to these last minute.

[00:34:02] And that's my kind of my forever reminder of this. I'm, you know, this kind of last minute guy. I always did the jobs in the last minute, you know, which is, um, it's just, it's a very bad habit. That's my flaw in me. That's my, my Achilles heel, you know, relying on, ah, there'll be time. There'll be plenty of time later. Yeah. And that's not always the case because I have a lot of kids. I have a lot of responsibilities.

[00:34:28] I got a lot of work and plus in a new church building, there's a lot of needs and a lot of things. And, and I'm love to serve. I love to bless people. And I always put all that way ahead and the preaching comes secondary. And it kills me that, that, that happens sometimes. And I'm like, oh, and, and because I know this is like the most important thing. It's so important. Yeah. The word of God.

[00:34:55] And I know how blessed I am when I'm in the word of God and I'm reading it and how encouraged and how I can see through the fog when I'm in the word and reading and, and, you know, it's so clear and I know I just want the church to, to, to, to be in the word. I'm trying to encourage them in the word. And I'm giving off this, uh, and I, a bad sermon and it's heartache. It's heartache. And I'm like, Lord, forgive me. I'm so sorry.

[00:35:22] And the good news, he does, you know, and I rely on him and I'm calling on him. Lord, help me, help me, help me. And, uh, he does. And that's been beautiful. Like, and that's, it's, it's that closeness that I have with Jesus, you know, like this time it's like, you know, you know yourself, you read the word and you're just like in tears and how beautiful. And I'm trying to portray that to everyone. It's like, Kai, it's like, I got so blessed reading this. I just want you to get blessed as well.

[00:35:52] You know, see these words and trying to bring it to life to them, you know? And, um, so it's, it's, uh, yeah, it's definitely, it's been a wonderful, it's wonderful. I love it. Like there's probably nothing more exciting. It's so, it's an adventure like in itself as well. Like, you know, preaching and teaching and yeah, that's why you have this whole podcast, you know, and you're, I love it. I think it's the greatest thing. I think it's the greatest thing.

[00:36:18] I know it's the most important part of my week, but I'm also, sometimes it's the exact same thing where it's like, yeah, it's the most important responsibility that I have, but then all these other things and some of them are good. Some of them are neutral. Some other, some of them I shouldn't be, you know, piddling my time away, you know? But then I have this thought of like, well, there's always, I could wake up early. I could, you know, I could stay up late. I could wake up early. And the older I get, Brian, the less I can.

[00:36:43] Like, you know, so I, I haven't fallen asleep in the pulpit and I haven't, you know, dreamed about it, but like. I had that dream and it was, it was a wake up call to me. It was, it was terrifying. Ironically. I was still haunting about it. And yes, it's funny that it came up with Shane there. We're talking about it. And he was just like, he gave, he was like, wow, man, that's really cool. He was like talking about it. Like, yes. But it was like, it's terrifying me and you know, terrifying me in a good way. Yeah.

[00:37:09] Just the idea of like, if this is as important as we say it is, which it is, it deserves our full attentiveness. 100%. All of our energy, you know, or I think as Oswald Chambers writes, he talks about with every power wide awake, you know, with all of who we are, you know, being attentive to, yeah, to the Lord, to his word, to his people. And then the preaching is that act of kind of that most important part. When you're preaching, there's times, okay.

[00:37:36] When I feel closest to the Lord is those times when I'm in prayer with him, you know, I'm going for my prayer walks and I'm reading his word and I'm just like, I'm just like in awe. That and also sometimes when preaching. Hmm. And I was like, man, it's, it's, it's like he assists you, you know? Yes. And he's just their witch. It's like, oh my goodness. Like, I didn't expect, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a mystery. Yeah. It's a mystery. It's beautiful. You know?

[00:38:05] Martin Lloyd-Jones called that the unction. Have you heard that? No. Okay. Unction. Of the spirit. Yeah. Or others. I think Puritans called it like the quickening of the spirit. Like it's just like this extra little boost, you know? And even. Sign me up. I want that all the time, but sometimes it's not, it's not there, but when it's there, it's just like, yeah, it's like, I feel, I feel like the Lord's presence with me. I feel, you know, that this is landing. There's almost like. When is it for you?

[00:38:32] Did you notice, did you do anything before or is there someone in the, is there someone in your congregation who's just praying? It must be that. It must be that. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I remember asking my congregation, the lads to pray for me. Yeah. And I tell you, it was a huge, it was a really good blessing. Really? I said, please, let's pray for Sunday. Pray for me. Yeah. And let's pray that the Lord moves and the Lord, you know, and it really, it's beautiful. Yeah. And it's so simple, you know?

[00:39:00] And we think as pastors, we got to deliver. We got to bring this, you know, that's our duty and that's our job, which it is. But it's like, if we can include them in as much in it as possible. You know, it's really good. Yeah. So yeah, it's exciting. And that's, yeah, there's one else I'm going to say. Like there's times where I just, and just in relation to that, where, you know, that question you had about your spiritual growth as you preach. Yes.

[00:39:31] Which is a really good, interesting question. And I have this, like, I don't know if you have that, like that, this desire of like, as you're, as you're teaching, you just like, I feel like I just want to like step out of the way and say, Lord, here you go. And I just like, I've communicated that before. I said, Lord, I just, I just want to get out of the way and just present you. Here's Jesus. You know, and to really show that. And that's, that's, yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:01] That's, that's that. Yeah. And, and I suppose the clearer we are in helping people, I don't like good preaching that really says, Hey, look at this, look at what the Lord is saying here and helping people to understand the message of scripture. I think that really does allow us to step out of the way and allow, you know, Christ to be seen and heard is by focusing on what he's done and said in the word, you know?

[00:40:28] And when I say he's done, I mean, from Genesis revelation, I think it's all his revelation. And so we want to make sure that we do that. And yeah. And sometimes there's things that has to be explained. Sometimes there's, I think there's the need for us to make illustrations or to have our funny jokes or whatever, you know, to keep people with us, but it is great. And when people are with you and you can be like, well, look at, look at the problem posed by verse three, but then you see how God has provided the solution here in verse

[00:40:56] four, you know, even see people like follow it along and then, and then, oh, then they get it. And they, and then you're simply like showing the depth of the need and then the wonders of God's provision. And that just feels so good. It does. It does. And it's hopefully it's helping people, you know? And I believe that it is. But the aim of preaching is for me, like one aspect is to really try to inspire them to learn to feed themselves too.

[00:41:24] So we're like, you know, preaching is like a good solid meal they get on a Sunday or Sunday roast. And, but you know, they, they need to eat for the rest of the week and trying to inspire them to, to get into themselves. And, you know, so I'm teaching through Ephesians now. We're coming to the last bit of the, of Ephesians. So I'll send that a text tomorrow saying, if you've got a spare 16 minutes and 27 seconds, you can read Ephesians and encourage them. I time it, how long it takes.

[00:41:53] I time myself how long it takes me to read Ephesians. And I tell them, and then when you put it like that, 15 minutes and 27 seconds, you know, that's it. You know, and they really kind of go to the challenge. And so when they read it themselves, it's really cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, last question. Okay. How are you currently trying to improve as a preacher? So how am I currently trying to improve?

[00:42:20] And you, this is, that's actually been kind of a, that's been weaving through this whole conversation. You do strike me as someone who is trying to, to improve, to feel the solemnity and to be truly awake in the pulpit. But is there something you're trying to improve on? I think praying more. And also just getting that structure to get, get the sermon down as soon as I can. Oh, okay. Yes. You know, and it's kind of like a no brainer really.

[00:42:48] With someone who's very busy like myself, you know, it's, you know, and then I realized I can't, I have to move away. Like for me, I, this is what I do. Sorry. This is what I do on Saturday. I go to the library. I need to get out of my house. If I'm nearby, I'm always on call for the kids and everything else. So I have to physically move away from there. Even if I go to my office, they still come into it. You know what I mean? Like, and so I, you know, I love going to the library and just having that time. It's quiet there.

[00:43:17] And, and yeah. So how am I trying to improve? Yeah. Being more getting in every, every aspect to be more present with the text. Um, and, um, um, yeah, to get more. Let me think here. How am I trying to improve? Every way, really. Yeah. No.

[00:43:47] And every way just to have a, not beat myself up as well on a Monday. Oh. You know, that's. Do you do that? Yeah, I do that. Like, you know, you go through your sermon in your head and you're like, oh, you know, why did I say that? And, um, write clearer notes. Uh, I don't tend to use notes when I preach. Oh, really? Because I can't read very well. Okay. I'm a bit dyslexic. Okay. And so I read the scriptures. Okay. But when I read, I can't read my handwriting.

[00:44:15] So I try and type out my notes. Yeah. But even still, I don't really tend to read them. Um, so it is learning the, there's a guy, there's a preacher. I, I, I, uh, I think you've mentioned him once on in your Haddon Robinson. Yeah. And I, I heard him about Genie Max. It was about 12 years ago. I heard a sermon of his on YouTube and I just was blown. A, his voice is East coast American.

[00:44:44] Then that's where I'm from. Cause he sounds like one of my uncles. Okay. Yeah. And the way he, he, he taught, it was just like, have you heard the one, you know, have you heard the one, the story of this? And he just tells the story. And he's like, he knows that story so well. He knows the scripture. So he embodies it. And then he's just telling, like, he's telling his grandchildren a story. And I, I think that, that I love a little bit of that, you know, where I, I just know the verses so well.

[00:45:13] I know the scripture so well that I'm just, I'm just, it's just coming off out of me, you know, fluidly. And I'm miles away from that. But they get little moments where you're like, you know, you, where you do like, I'm teaching Ephesians. It's my second time teaching Ephesians. And, um, there's certain passages in Ephesians that I just love and I can feel like I can tell it like a story. And, uh, you know, I'd like, that's where I'd like to head towards that kind of, yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:43] That kind of style of things. But, you know, I don't know. I'm tired. If you ask me tomorrow, I'll probably say something completely different. Yes. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I've been teaching through Revelation. Oh, how's that going? Oh man. It's hard. It's really hard. And even as you were talking. Have you taught it before? No, I've been avoiding it for 21 years. I've avoided it for 20 years. Wow. And I've been doing it since Easter of, of this year. It's been a real challenge. It's been really hard.

[00:46:13] And you were talking a few minutes ago, just about like, uh, yeah, just kind of a kind of like the joy of discovering a passage, you know? And I was actually, I'm sitting here thinking like, I'm looking forward to doing that after I finish up Revelation. Cause it's, it's pretty, no, I'm not, I'm not dismissing it. It's, it's true. It's wonderful. What's the hardest bit about it? The hardest bit about it is that I am, I read too many commentaries. I read way too many commentaries and I...

[00:46:43] What was that? Like Spurgeon said, like you can, then, then you have this, such a, so much information. And then, and then of the information with Revelation, especially, they all disagree, you know? And I, dumb me. And do you want to give everyone's opinion? Yeah. Well, no. Which is good. I've learned to not give everyone's opinion. Okay. But, and then even sometimes I'll just specifically skip certain things. Okay.

[00:47:10] So you, you say like you give, sometimes you give everyone's opinion, but then you can't, but you say like, I lean towards this one more. I only do that every once in a while. Okay. Um, but, but, you know, this coming Sunday is Revelation 20. Um, the millennium is there and that's, that's the most divisive part. And there's, uh, you know, people I respect in, in my church in various degrees of leadership that would hold a different view than I would on this. Oh, you'd be fighting words. And no, and, and you know what?

[00:47:40] I'm not trying to, you know, listen, we can't, we can't both be right. So, you know, I'll, I'll take one for the team and I'll be right now. Um, so we have, we have, so I, I definitely want to like understand that view as good as possible and, and have something nice to say about it and then say, but here's, here's my view. Um, but then it's also, I don't want to spend too much time on that section because I'm doing it one chapter a week because I think the most chapter, I think the most, is that how

[00:48:09] you normally do it or no? For Revelation? Yes. No, but for Ephesians? No, no. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a paragraph guy. As we, we did that before in, in when I was in serving in Northclair, we kind of spit up the gospel of John. We do a kind of a chapter each. Yes. And I hated it. A chapter's a lot, dude. I hated it. I didn't, I didn't hate it. I loved it, but I went, I wanted to stay on a couple of verses and just, that's it. Like, you know, anyway. With Revelation though, it's like, as I'm going to chapter a week, it's like, there's

[00:48:38] always something nice and encouraging in every chapter, you know? So you find that, you do the big overview and then I kind of zoom in on the, on the, on the small bits. But anyway, all that to say is that I, I want to, you didn't ask me, but I want to improve my next sermon and that I want to have just like a joy about it, you know? And I think it's because there's, you know, I call it like, it's the wild and wonderful book of Revelation, you know?

[00:49:04] And it's also like, it's contentious, you know, it's like coriander, you know, with coriander, you either love it or you hate it, you know? And there's all these various cilantro for our fellow North Americans. With like, yeah, again, my, my problem is I'm just, I try to understand what, you know, the post-millennials would say about this passage and this and that, and what did Augustine say? And I just need to be like, Hey, you know what?

[00:49:34] The Lord is revealing this to us and he has spoken this to my heart and I want to communicate it to you guys. So that's what I need to do. One good thing in Revelation is just reading it. You know, you'd be blessed. I believe it. I believe it by faith. I believe it by faith, brother. I believe that by faith. It says it. Yeah, I know. Bless it. I know. So, um, yeah, that's really good. I know. Fair play. So you're almost done. I am. What are you doing after? Maybe James, maybe James. James, which I think is like the exact opposite, you know, it's like, it's like, here's how

[00:50:04] you live on earth, you know, whereas Revelation is like, here's the heavenly realities and here's, you know, what's coming there and then, whereas James is very much here and now. So I think that's what I'm thinking of. It's actually funny as I was at a place having lunch and then bumped into a group of our young adults from church. It's nice to see like people in church, like they're out socializing together. Cool. It's cool to see. Yeah. And then I went over to say hello. And then what's even more cool is they're like, Hey Mike, what are you going to preach after Revelation? And I'm like, thanks for care.

[00:50:33] And then, and then one of them said, would you do James? It's my favorite book. And I was like, the answer is probably yes. That sounds great. Wow. Because you, that's cool. You care. Like someone cares. So it's like, yeah, actually cares. So I want to change a book. Yeah. Good book. So basically if you want to influence like the future of Calvary Cork, just like butter me up and say something nice. Okay. I think we're done. That's good. Yeah. Thank you, Mike.

[00:51:00] And you, any, you see you're an occasional listener to this podcast. Which? You're, you are an occasional listener to the Expositors podcast. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, yeah, I, I'm subscribed on YouTube. Okay. But it hasn't been coming up like, and I, I kind of just go on YouTube when I'm doing dishes or going for a drive. I got Flickup whenever it's coming up. But unfortunately it hasn't coming up as much lately as it used to. I don't know. I bet if you were to like leave, leave a thumbs up. Is that what it is? Leave a comment.

[00:51:29] I don't do, I don't do that stuff too much. I left, I left comments before. Leave a comment on this one. I'm not going to watch my own one. Thank you. I agree with Brian. Okay. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. There you go. Cool. Bye. I hope that this episode and all of the Expositors Collective helps you to grow in your personal study and public proclamation of God's word. All right. Thanks for listening all the way to the end.

[00:51:57] That was Brian Davis of Kill Rush Community Church. I appreciate his reminder that the Sunday sermon should encourage people to keep feeding on God's word throughout the week. And his honesty about prayer and preparation really speaks to me and to us. So if this conversation encouraged you, I would ask you maybe one of two things. Could you leave a comment?

[00:52:26] Leave a thumbs up. Leave something on YouTube or Apple Podcasts or Spotify, however you're listening to this. Even as Brian himself was saying, due to how the nature of the algorithm works, that if people aren't engaging with this content, it doesn't get shown to people. And then it's more than likely to just be disappearing into the background of the internet.

[00:52:52] And I believe we have important stuff to say that is encouraging those who are going to encourage others. So leave a comment. Say where you're listening from. Say what you liked about Brian. Say anything. Leave a negative comment. I don't care. Whatever it takes to just interact with the algorithm and help more preachers and Bible teachers to come across this content.

[00:53:20] Or the best way to help people find this stuff and benefit from it is to send it to them directly. So if you are in a pastor's group chat, if you have a team at church, if you are considering planting or if you're thinking through what it means like to truly have a multicultural church,

[00:53:46] and you're thinking through that with other people, maybe this episode is something that's worth copying, pasting, and then texting to them. Anyway, I hope that this conversation and all that we do at Expositors Collective helps you to grow in your personal study and your public proclamation of God's Word. Thanks for listening, and I will see you next Tuesday.

[00:54:12] I've got a bunch of fresh interviews that are going to be coming out, and I can't wait for you to listen to more of them.