Leading Interactive Bible Studies and Hope for Gen Z with Dan Hamlin

[00:00:00] Our lives are a continuation of this narrative that God's been telling since before the world began.

[00:00:08] So we should be excited about that, right?

[00:00:12] Like it shouldn't just be, oh, our story's exciting because it's happened to me, but this text I don't get because it happened long ago.

[00:00:23] No, this is part of my story is the faith that's been passed on from generation to generation has now come to my life and my life is intertwined with this narrative of the biblical text.

[00:00:40] Hey, welcome to the Expositors Collective Podcast, episode 341.

[00:00:45] I'm your host, Mike Neglia, and our guest for this week is Dan Hamlin.

[00:00:51] Dan is a youth pastor at Calvary Chapel Santa Maria in the central coast of California.

[00:01:00] And I know that a lot of youth pastors and people who work with kids listen to this podcast.

[00:01:08] So when I get a chance to have a conversation with somebody who is actively involved in pastoring and teaching the Bible to teenagers,

[00:01:18] I want to grab that opportunity to ask the sort of questions that might help and be an encouragement to those of you who are also vocationally involved in investing in the youth.

[00:01:33] But this isn't only just limited to that category of Bible teachers.

[00:01:38] Dan has wisdom about leading group Bible discussions, how to have an interactive Bible study that doesn't get swayed off into tangents,

[00:01:48] and then also about telling stories in a way that helps the communication of the message.

[00:01:54] There's a lot of great stuff in this, and I hope that it encourages you.

[00:01:59] As you may know, Expositors Collective is going to Kampala, Uganda in September.

[00:02:06] We're putting on a three-day preacher's training event, and we're looking for sponsorships.

[00:02:14] Not sponsorship for my travel there or for Brian Kelly's or for Ed Kampion's travel.

[00:02:20] We're covering that ourselves, but we want the rural pastors, the ones that are out in the outskirts of Uganda,

[00:02:31] to be able to afford to come in and receive their training and encouragement at no cost to them.

[00:02:40] So here's a clip of myself and Pastor Zeddy Mzungu and Brian Kelly talking about how you can give.

[00:02:49] You can go to our website, expositorscollective.com.

[00:02:53] There's a button that says Give.

[00:02:55] It'll bring you to a site where you can scroll down and find Expositors Collective Uganda,

[00:03:01] and you can sponsor an expositor.

[00:03:03] All right, here is Zeddy Mzungu, followed by my conversation with Dan Hamlin.

[00:03:09] Hey, what's up, Expositors? Mike Neglia here, and I'm thrilled to let you know

[00:03:13] that the Expositors Collective training event is coming to Uganda, Africa.

[00:03:18] Yeah, and Pastor Zeddy is my name.

[00:03:21] I do pastor Calvary Chapel Kampala, and we're trying to get over 200 pastors to come to Kampala.

[00:03:27] It's in the middle of the city, so some are going to be traveling from way out of the country,

[00:03:31] so we're asking you guys to get involved in some way.

[00:03:34] We need your help to help these pastors get into the conference.

[00:03:38] The conference is free of charge.

[00:03:39] We want to provide it free of charge for those who can't attend.

[00:03:42] However, some of these pastors are coming from remote areas.

[00:03:44] They need to cover the cost of transportation, food, and lodging while they're there.

[00:03:48] It's going to cost about $100 per pastor, so if you can help us sponsor a pastor to get to the conference,

[00:03:54] we'd really appreciate it.

[00:03:56] You can do so at the Expositors Collective website.

[00:03:58] Yeah, that's right. Thanks, guys.

[00:04:00] I appreciate your prayers, and would you help us sponsor an expositor?

[00:04:12] Hey, welcome to the Expositors Collective podcast.

[00:04:14] Sitting across from me is Pastor Dan Hamlin.

[00:04:18] How are you?

[00:04:18] Good, good. Thanks for having me.

[00:04:21] So, I'm not good at small talk.

[00:04:24] Let's get into it.

[00:04:25] What was your first time teaching the Bible?

[00:04:28] My first time teaching the Bible was, I was about 20 years old.

[00:04:33] I had inherited a Bible study from a mentor friend of mine who was moving out of town,

[00:04:41] and the Bible study had been at his house,

[00:04:44] and he said, Dan, this is now your Bible study,

[00:04:48] and it will be meeting at your house.

[00:04:51] And so that was basically how I got into it.

[00:04:54] Yeah.

[00:04:55] It was, as a 20-year-old with no Bible training

[00:04:58] or just someone who had elementary knowledge of the Bible,

[00:05:03] it was definitely not the best.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:06] So, you, how many weeks notice did you have?

[00:05:11] I would say he gave me about a month's notice.

[00:05:16] Okay.

[00:05:16] Yeah, if I remember right, it was, that's over 20 years now.

[00:05:20] Okay.

[00:05:20] But, yeah, it was about a month's notice.

[00:05:24] He told me he was thinking about moving,

[00:05:26] and then, which we were all bummed because he was one of my best friends,

[00:05:31] and, you know, we loved the Bible study,

[00:05:34] but I didn't think he was going to just be like, okay, take it over.

[00:05:38] But it worked out because my dad was, he's a Bible teacher,

[00:05:42] and he would help me a lot.

[00:05:44] So he would a lot of times, you know, do the lesson

[00:05:47] and let me have a couple weeks off,

[00:05:51] and then I would do one,

[00:05:53] and then I would be like, I was terrible, Dad.

[00:05:56] You do it again.

[00:05:57] Yeah.

[00:05:58] Oh, well, that's ideal.

[00:06:00] Like, that really sets you up for success.

[00:06:03] Yes.

[00:06:04] Yeah.

[00:06:04] And my dad's always been super supportive like that.

[00:06:08] He is a great Bible teacher,

[00:06:12] and he would very graciously let me do poorly without coming down,

[00:06:21] like discouraging me, if that makes sense.

[00:06:23] So I would do poorly, and he would never be discouraging about it.

[00:06:29] He would be like, that's okay.

[00:06:32] Like, you know, you just need to do this.

[00:06:34] Yeah.

[00:06:34] Would he let you know that you did a bad job,

[00:06:37] or do you think you knew, and he knew you knew?

[00:06:40] Exactly.

[00:06:41] Yeah.

[00:06:42] I knew, and he knew I knew.

[00:06:44] So it was more like, if you want to take next week off,

[00:06:49] I'll do it for you.

[00:06:50] You know, it was like giving me an out.

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:54] And he loved being around,

[00:06:58] because it was for like young adults.

[00:07:01] It was all pretty much young adults,

[00:07:03] and he just loved being around the young crew and stuff.

[00:07:08] Yes.

[00:07:08] I think he enjoyed it.

[00:07:10] Even when he wasn't teaching,

[00:07:13] he just enjoyed kind of being a part of it.

[00:07:15] That's great.

[00:07:15] You mentioned that, yeah,

[00:07:16] your friend said that he's giving the Bible study to you,

[00:07:19] and it's going to move over to your house.

[00:07:21] Now, was your house also his house?

[00:07:24] Were you living with your parents at that point?

[00:07:27] Yes, exactly.

[00:07:28] I was living out with my parents,

[00:07:29] so my house was my dad's house.

[00:07:31] Okay.

[00:07:32] He more or less had the choice.

[00:07:34] So it'd be hard for your dad to not be involved.

[00:07:36] Exactly.

[00:07:37] He kind of had the choice but to get involved.

[00:07:40] Now, okay, I know it's 20 years ago.

[00:07:43] Do you remember, like,

[00:07:45] did your friend, like, finish a series or finish a book,

[00:07:49] and then you started from scratch,

[00:07:51] or did you continue in the same,

[00:07:53] like, continue the same book?

[00:07:55] No, yeah.

[00:07:56] I started pretty much from scratch.

[00:07:58] He just, he said goodbyes,

[00:08:03] and it wasn't like, he moved an hour away,

[00:08:06] so he would come around every once in a while,

[00:08:08] but it was just, he was done with the Bible study,

[00:08:11] and there wasn't any sort of series we were going through

[00:08:15] or a book we were going through,

[00:08:16] so it was just, here it is, it's yours.

[00:08:19] Yeah.

[00:08:20] I forget exactly where I started.

[00:08:23] I do think I started in one of the Gospels

[00:08:25] and just started teaching through that.

[00:08:27] Good call.

[00:08:29] I didn't, yeah, there was no direction.

[00:08:31] Okay.

[00:08:31] Yeah.

[00:08:32] Okay.

[00:08:33] And, okay, maybe last question on this,

[00:08:36] but was it like a sermon that you were delivering,

[00:08:38] or was it more interactive group, small group stuff?

[00:08:42] It was, I would say, more interactive,

[00:08:45] because it was very casual.

[00:08:48] It was part of a ministry called Christian Surfers,

[00:08:51] which basically is, you know,

[00:08:54] reaches the surfing community,

[00:08:55] and so it's just a bunch of surfers,

[00:08:57] and so we would get together,

[00:09:00] and we'd go through the scripture,

[00:09:02] and I would attempt to break it down

[00:09:07] and get a lesson from it,

[00:09:08] but then there would be a lot of dialogue

[00:09:10] if somebody had like a thought on it.

[00:09:13] It was open to share, so.

[00:09:16] Okay.

[00:09:16] Wow.

[00:09:17] And do you remember your first time

[00:09:21] ever giving like a sermon?

[00:09:23] So kind of, this is a different kind of Bible teaching,

[00:09:25] but kind of, yeah, uninterrupted,

[00:09:27] kind of structured, planned, beginning, middle, and end.

[00:09:31] Yes.

[00:09:32] That was in 2015.

[00:09:37] I had given,

[00:09:39] so I do a bit of freelance writing

[00:09:42] and writing on the side,

[00:09:44] and I had a book come out,

[00:09:46] like kind of a journal-style devotional,

[00:09:49] and so I had the opportunity

[00:09:50] to give the sermon at a church,

[00:09:53] and that was the first time

[00:09:56] I had to come up with an actual,

[00:09:59] you know, full sermon for the congregation,

[00:10:06] and it was quite intimidating,

[00:10:08] quite scary,

[00:10:09] and I remember what I taught on.

[00:10:14] It was in John 5,

[00:10:16] in the Healing Appetit.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] And it's still one of my favorite passages,

[00:10:21] but I look back at my notes from the first one

[00:10:25] compared to like when I teach it now,

[00:10:27] and it's drastically different.

[00:10:29] Okay.

[00:10:30] Yeah, it's just...

[00:10:32] Why?

[00:10:33] How?

[00:10:34] You're on the Expositors Collective Podcast.

[00:10:37] You can't just say something like that.

[00:10:38] Yeah, okay.

[00:10:39] We've got to drill into it.

[00:10:41] I would say one of the biggest things is that

[00:10:44] I go into more detail on some of the context

[00:10:50] of the situation

[00:10:51] rather than just hitting on a couple points

[00:10:56] I wanted to make,

[00:10:57] and so in learning how to study

[00:11:02] and learning how to exposit,

[00:11:04] it's allowed me to explain,

[00:11:08] I think, the context of the story a little more.

[00:11:12] I also noticed my first time teaching on it,

[00:11:17] I had a lot more personal anecdotes.

[00:11:20] Okay.

[00:11:20] A lot more like, I guess, fluff, if you will,

[00:11:24] like stories that might be entertaining,

[00:11:27] but it's not super,

[00:11:30] not necessarily solid food

[00:11:32] or not super meaningful in the context of a sermon,

[00:11:36] and so I've scaled back on that

[00:11:40] in my style.

[00:11:42] I guess I still loved using illustrations and stories,

[00:11:46] but trying not to focus so much on that,

[00:11:52] but even still,

[00:11:54] like I attended the last Expositors Collective

[00:11:57] in Pleasanton,

[00:11:58] and that was one of my weaknesses

[00:12:02] was that in giving my sermonette,

[00:12:05] I still tend to emphasize stories a lot,

[00:12:10] which I think part of that's personal,

[00:12:12] my personality.

[00:12:14] I like to tell stories.

[00:12:16] I like to read stories,

[00:12:18] and so,

[00:12:19] but at the same time,

[00:12:20] I also want,

[00:12:21] I don't want to diminish this,

[00:12:24] the importance of the text or scripture

[00:12:26] because that's what saves,

[00:12:29] that's what has the power to transform.

[00:12:32] My anecdotes don't, you know, so.

[00:12:34] Yeah.

[00:12:35] Yeah, I'd love to come back

[00:12:36] and then maybe hear more about

[00:12:38] lessons learned in Pleasanton.

[00:12:42] Yes, yes.

[00:12:42] But, you know,

[00:12:44] also yesterday,

[00:12:46] I heard you teach the Bible,

[00:12:48] you know,

[00:12:49] I sat in the back row,

[00:12:50] we're doing a kind of a kid's camp

[00:12:51] right now.

[00:12:52] You did a teaching,

[00:12:54] and it started with a story.

[00:12:56] Yes.

[00:12:56] And,

[00:12:57] I think, yeah,

[00:12:58] you used that story well.

[00:13:01] It definitely captivated the kids.

[00:13:03] We talked about a near-death experience

[00:13:05] while surfing.

[00:13:06] Yes.

[00:13:07] A lot of the surfing comes through.

[00:13:09] It's weird.

[00:13:10] You must be a Christian surfer.

[00:13:12] So, yeah,

[00:13:13] like a near-death experience,

[00:13:15] and yeah,

[00:13:16] you told it well.

[00:13:17] You know,

[00:13:17] I was watching my kid,

[00:13:19] my kids cared,

[00:13:19] you know,

[00:13:20] and then you brought in,

[00:13:23] you know,

[00:13:23] that your story is interesting,

[00:13:25] and that pivots into God's story

[00:13:28] and the passage at hand.

[00:13:30] Right.

[00:13:31] Well,

[00:13:31] I appreciate that.

[00:13:32] I do,

[00:13:33] when I started teaching the Bible,

[00:13:37] I do remember kind of

[00:13:38] having the conscious thought

[00:13:41] of how did Jesus teach?

[00:13:43] Sure.

[00:13:43] And,

[00:13:44] because obviously,

[00:13:45] if he's our model,

[00:13:48] then however he taught

[00:13:50] is probably a good model to emulate.

[00:13:53] And I,

[00:13:54] you know,

[00:13:54] obviously he used parables

[00:13:56] all the time.

[00:13:57] And so,

[00:13:58] I did,

[00:13:59] that always stuck with me.

[00:14:00] That's,

[00:14:01] there is power in narrative

[00:14:04] and story

[00:14:05] to connect with people.

[00:14:06] Yeah.

[00:14:07] And particularly with kids,

[00:14:09] I'm now a youth pastor.

[00:14:12] The,

[00:14:13] there is something

[00:14:14] in each of us

[00:14:15] that we connect

[00:14:17] with a good story,

[00:14:20] right?

[00:14:20] Yeah.

[00:14:20] A good narrative.

[00:14:21] And so,

[00:14:22] particularly with kids,

[00:14:23] it is good to,

[00:14:24] I feel it's important

[00:14:26] to use stories

[00:14:27] and illustrations

[00:14:28] to get people's attention

[00:14:30] and kind of draw them

[00:14:31] into the,

[00:14:33] I guess,

[00:14:33] the theme

[00:14:34] or the message

[00:14:34] that you want to be delivering.

[00:14:36] But I,

[00:14:37] I also feel like

[00:14:39] looking back

[00:14:40] at my old material

[00:14:42] that there,

[00:14:43] there was a little

[00:14:44] out of balance.

[00:14:45] There's a balance there

[00:14:46] that you need to strike.

[00:14:47] Like,

[00:14:47] if it's,

[00:14:47] if it's 75%

[00:14:50] and nothing

[00:14:50] but story

[00:14:51] and anecdotes,

[00:14:52] then I,

[00:14:53] I kind of feel like

[00:14:56] that's a little

[00:14:57] out of balance

[00:14:57] and that's kind of

[00:14:58] how my past teaching was.

[00:15:00] Yes.

[00:15:00] Yeah.

[00:15:01] Yeah.

[00:15:02] I don't want anyone

[00:15:03] listening to get the impression

[00:15:04] that like stories,

[00:15:05] it's like something

[00:15:07] that you need to be cured of.

[00:15:09] Right.

[00:15:09] Totally.

[00:15:10] Yes.

[00:15:10] They're great.

[00:15:11] Yeah.

[00:15:11] And I mean,

[00:15:12] I would,

[00:15:12] I would recommend to you

[00:15:13] and to the listeners,

[00:15:15] like we had Chris Brown

[00:15:17] on the show

[00:15:17] two times actually.

[00:15:20] He's a,

[00:15:20] I guess he's currently

[00:15:21] the lead pastor

[00:15:22] of North Coast Church

[00:15:23] in Vista, California.

[00:15:25] An excellent storyteller

[00:15:26] and we,

[00:15:27] I have a great conversation

[00:15:28] with him about

[00:15:29] how to tell stories well.

[00:15:31] That's awesome.

[00:15:32] And he's big,

[00:15:32] he's big on the fact

[00:15:34] that like,

[00:15:34] yes,

[00:15:35] like we have our stories.

[00:15:36] We have stories

[00:15:36] about almost dying

[00:15:37] while surfing

[00:15:38] and all that.

[00:15:39] But he kind of points out

[00:15:41] that the Bible

[00:15:41] is a story

[00:15:42] and that if you can

[00:15:44] get excited

[00:15:44] about the Bible story

[00:15:46] and then tell the Bible story

[00:15:48] in a riveting way,

[00:15:49] then that's even

[00:15:50] kind of the ultimate win.

[00:15:52] Yes.

[00:15:52] And I,

[00:15:52] and I agree wholeheartedly.

[00:15:54] Like,

[00:15:54] I don't at all think

[00:15:56] we should stop

[00:15:58] using stories

[00:15:59] and illustrations

[00:16:00] and preaching.

[00:16:01] I just,

[00:16:02] I do,

[00:16:03] I think they're

[00:16:04] deeply balanced there.

[00:16:05] Yeah.

[00:16:06] And,

[00:16:07] in terms of,

[00:16:08] I guess,

[00:16:09] what some of my weaknesses

[00:16:10] were early on

[00:16:12] I noticed

[00:16:13] that that was one

[00:16:14] where I would

[00:16:15] pretty much neglect

[00:16:17] the text I was teaching

[00:16:18] in order to tell the story.

[00:16:21] Yes.

[00:16:21] Whereas I feel like

[00:16:22] the story should

[00:16:25] illuminate the text

[00:16:26] you're teaching.

[00:16:27] And so,

[00:16:27] and I wouldn't even

[00:16:28] break it down,

[00:16:29] I guess,

[00:16:29] in terms of,

[00:16:30] of time spent

[00:16:32] on the story

[00:16:32] as much as

[00:16:33] does this really

[00:16:35] break down

[00:16:36] the text I'm teaching?

[00:16:37] Does it connect

[00:16:38] connect to that?

[00:16:40] Or is this just

[00:16:41] like an anecdote

[00:16:43] I'm adding

[00:16:44] to fill time,

[00:16:45] you know?

[00:16:45] Yes.

[00:16:46] Yeah.

[00:16:47] Yes.

[00:16:47] And then,

[00:16:48] finally,

[00:16:49] to quote

[00:16:50] David Guzik,

[00:16:51] who's a mentor

[00:16:52] of mine

[00:16:53] when I was younger,

[00:16:54] he has said

[00:16:55] that

[00:16:57] when,

[00:16:58] like,

[00:16:58] everyone listens

[00:16:59] as soon as you start

[00:17:00] telling a story,

[00:17:01] people are interested,

[00:17:02] you know?

[00:17:02] And then,

[00:17:03] he hates it though

[00:17:04] when preachers

[00:17:05] get really animated

[00:17:06] telling stories

[00:17:07] about their life,

[00:17:08] you know?

[00:17:08] Because it's real,

[00:17:10] you know?

[00:17:10] And they tell their story

[00:17:11] and then it's like,

[00:17:12] okay,

[00:17:13] anyway,

[00:17:13] all right,

[00:17:14] back to verse 12.

[00:17:14] Right.

[00:17:15] And then verse 12

[00:17:16] is boring,

[00:17:16] you know?

[00:17:17] And they give the impression

[00:17:18] that like,

[00:17:18] my life is exciting.

[00:17:20] This is,

[00:17:20] this is real life.

[00:17:22] Anyway,

[00:17:22] enough about real life.

[00:17:24] Now let's go back

[00:17:24] to verse 12.

[00:17:25] Yes.

[00:17:26] So like,

[00:17:27] you know,

[00:17:27] not,

[00:17:28] it's not a matter

[00:17:28] of mustering up

[00:17:29] fake enthusiasm,

[00:17:30] but it's actually

[00:17:31] spending time

[00:17:32] with the Lord,

[00:17:33] with the text,

[00:17:34] so that you realize

[00:17:35] verse 12

[00:17:36] is actually

[00:17:37] more real

[00:17:38] than any

[00:17:39] near-death experience

[00:17:40] we ever had.

[00:17:41] Right.

[00:17:42] Verse 12

[00:17:42] is so crucial.

[00:17:44] And so,

[00:17:44] to maintain

[00:17:45] that enthusiasm

[00:17:46] for the text

[00:17:47] of the Bible

[00:17:47] and our stories.

[00:17:49] Yeah.

[00:17:50] Yeah,

[00:17:50] exactly.

[00:17:50] I feel like

[00:17:53] as believers,

[00:17:54] part of,

[00:17:55] I think,

[00:17:56] the things

[00:17:57] we need to

[00:17:59] realize,

[00:18:00] or one of the things

[00:18:00] we need to realize

[00:18:01] is that our story

[00:18:02] is part of

[00:18:05] this biblical text

[00:18:07] in a way,

[00:18:07] if that makes it,

[00:18:08] like,

[00:18:08] our story

[00:18:09] is a continuation

[00:18:12] of God's

[00:18:13] universal story.

[00:18:15] And so,

[00:18:16] we can connect

[00:18:18] our lives

[00:18:19] to the Bible.

[00:18:20] Like,

[00:18:20] there's not

[00:18:22] a separation

[00:18:23] now.

[00:18:23] I mean,

[00:18:23] obviously,

[00:18:24] it was written

[00:18:25] long ago.

[00:18:26] Yes.

[00:18:27] But the narrative

[00:18:29] continues today.

[00:18:30] And so,

[00:18:32] our lives

[00:18:33] are a continuation

[00:18:34] of this

[00:18:35] narrative

[00:18:36] that God's

[00:18:37] been telling

[00:18:37] since before

[00:18:39] the world began.

[00:18:40] So,

[00:18:42] we should be

[00:18:43] excited about that.

[00:18:44] Like,

[00:18:44] it shouldn't just be,

[00:18:45] oh,

[00:18:46] our story's

[00:18:47] exciting

[00:18:47] because it's

[00:18:48] happened to me,

[00:18:50] but this text

[00:18:51] I don't get

[00:18:51] because it's

[00:18:52] happened long ago.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:55] it's,

[00:18:56] no,

[00:18:56] this is part

[00:18:57] of my story

[00:18:58] is the faith

[00:19:00] that's been

[00:19:00] passed on

[00:19:01] from generation

[00:19:02] to generation

[00:19:02] has now

[00:19:03] come to my life

[00:19:04] and my life

[00:19:06] is intertwined

[00:19:07] with this

[00:19:09] narrative

[00:19:09] of the

[00:19:10] biblical text.

[00:19:11] Yeah.

[00:19:12] Yes.

[00:19:13] Yeah.

[00:19:13] So,

[00:19:14] that's some

[00:19:15] of the ways

[00:19:15] that you've

[00:19:15] grown since then.

[00:19:17] Yes.

[00:19:17] I'd like to

[00:19:18] talk with you,

[00:19:19] Kev,

[00:19:19] I have two

[00:19:20] different things

[00:19:20] competing in my mind.

[00:19:22] I want to talk

[00:19:23] to you maybe first,

[00:19:24] maybe briefly,

[00:19:25] but about

[00:19:25] like interactive

[00:19:27] Bible studies.

[00:19:28] Okay.

[00:19:29] How do you

[00:19:29] lead them

[00:19:30] well?

[00:19:31] Or maybe

[00:19:32] what are some

[00:19:33] like mistakes

[00:19:33] to avoid

[00:19:34] when it comes

[00:19:35] to like those

[00:19:36] interactive Bible studies

[00:19:37] when there's

[00:19:38] Christian surfers

[00:19:39] in your dad's

[00:19:41] living room

[00:19:41] Yes.

[00:19:42] interrupting

[00:19:43] or,

[00:19:44] you know,

[00:19:44] throwing tangents

[00:19:45] there,

[00:19:46] you know,

[00:19:47] or being dialed in.

[00:19:48] Like,

[00:19:48] what's the best way

[00:19:49] to lead those

[00:19:50] kind of open

[00:19:50] discussion group

[00:19:52] Bible study times?

[00:19:52] Yeah.

[00:19:53] I mean,

[00:19:54] I certainly

[00:19:54] don't think

[00:19:55] I'm an expert

[00:19:56] on this.

[00:19:56] I feel like

[00:19:57] you obviously

[00:19:59] learn each time

[00:20:00] you do it.

[00:20:01] For me,

[00:20:02] I notice

[00:20:03] it depends on

[00:20:04] a lot of

[00:20:05] the flow

[00:20:06] in momentum

[00:20:07] depends on

[00:20:08] the questions

[00:20:09] I ask

[00:20:10] to the group.

[00:20:11] Yeah.

[00:20:11] And so,

[00:20:12] if you're

[00:20:13] have it planned

[00:20:15] out

[00:20:15] and you have

[00:20:16] certain questions

[00:20:18] that you know

[00:20:19] will hopefully

[00:20:20] be relevant

[00:20:22] to the text

[00:20:23] that you're studying,

[00:20:24] I think that's

[00:20:25] super helpful.

[00:20:26] Obviously,

[00:20:27] with kids,

[00:20:29] sometimes

[00:20:30] it just goes

[00:20:31] off the rails

[00:20:32] and you just

[00:20:33] have to reel

[00:20:33] it back in.

[00:20:34] And there

[00:20:35] are times,

[00:20:36] like,

[00:20:36] we're doing

[00:20:37] this holiday

[00:20:39] Bible camp

[00:20:40] right now

[00:20:40] and we have

[00:20:41] four to

[00:20:42] 12-year-olds

[00:20:44] and sometimes

[00:20:44] the younger

[00:20:45] age,

[00:20:47] like four

[00:20:47] to say

[00:20:48] eight,

[00:20:49] ask some

[00:20:49] really funny

[00:20:50] random questions

[00:20:51] and you have

[00:20:52] no control

[00:20:53] over it.

[00:20:54] And so,

[00:20:54] I think part

[00:20:55] of it is

[00:20:56] just also

[00:20:56] being able

[00:20:57] to kind

[00:20:57] of go

[00:20:58] with the

[00:20:58] flow

[00:20:58] and react

[00:20:59] in a way

[00:21:01] like where

[00:21:02] you're not

[00:21:03] so dead set

[00:21:04] on your notes

[00:21:04] that if

[00:21:05] something like

[00:21:06] that happens

[00:21:06] you can't

[00:21:07] address it

[00:21:08] and come

[00:21:09] back to

[00:21:09] where you

[00:21:10] were,

[00:21:10] you know?

[00:21:11] I mean,

[00:21:11] not to say

[00:21:12] that we

[00:21:13] all lose

[00:21:14] our spot

[00:21:14] from time

[00:21:15] to time

[00:21:15] or whatever

[00:21:16] but just

[00:21:16] kind of

[00:21:16] be,

[00:21:17] I guess,

[00:21:18] in the

[00:21:18] mindset

[00:21:19] of allow

[00:21:21] the Holy

[00:21:22] Spirit to

[00:21:23] also lean

[00:21:24] on the

[00:21:24] Holy

[00:21:24] Spirit.

[00:21:25] You know,

[00:21:25] that if

[00:21:26] a kid

[00:21:27] asks some

[00:21:27] random

[00:21:28] question

[00:21:28] and it

[00:21:29] takes a

[00:21:29] weird turn

[00:21:30] that you're

[00:21:31] going to be

[00:21:32] okay and

[00:21:32] you can

[00:21:33] reel it back

[00:21:34] in.

[00:21:35] But yeah,

[00:21:36] it is

[00:21:37] hard.

[00:21:37] You can't

[00:21:38] be like,

[00:21:39] silence,

[00:21:39] five-year-old.

[00:21:40] I'm

[00:21:41] expositing.

[00:21:42] Exactly.

[00:21:42] It depends

[00:21:43] on the audience

[00:21:44] too.

[00:21:45] Of course.

[00:21:45] If it's a

[00:21:46] kid like

[00:21:47] that,

[00:21:47] you're

[00:21:47] like,

[00:21:48] I would

[00:21:49] probably ask

[00:21:50] a much

[00:21:50] worse

[00:21:50] question

[00:21:51] than that

[00:21:51] when I

[00:21:51] was his

[00:21:52] age

[00:21:52] or

[00:21:52] whatever.

[00:21:52] You know,

[00:21:53] it's like,

[00:21:53] so,

[00:21:55] I guess

[00:21:55] the reality

[00:21:56] is,

[00:21:57] yeah,

[00:21:57] the audience

[00:21:58] determines a

[00:21:59] lot of that.

[00:21:59] When it's

[00:22:01] older kids,

[00:22:02] it gets a

[00:22:02] little tougher

[00:22:03] because you

[00:22:03] do,

[00:22:04] there is the

[00:22:04] expectation

[00:22:05] of,

[00:22:05] well,

[00:22:06] they're a

[00:22:06] little bit

[00:22:06] older and

[00:22:07] they should

[00:22:10] just out of

[00:22:11] decency or

[00:22:12] respect,

[00:22:12] like,

[00:22:12] respect the

[00:22:15] what's going

[00:22:16] to do.

[00:22:16] What's

[00:22:16] taking

[00:22:16] place.

[00:22:17] You

[00:22:17] wouldn't

[00:22:17] interrupt

[00:22:18] somebody

[00:22:18] in a

[00:22:18] conversation.

[00:22:20] But all

[00:22:21] that,

[00:22:21] I feel

[00:22:22] like it

[00:22:24] comes with,

[00:22:25] at least

[00:22:25] for me,

[00:22:26] I feel

[00:22:26] like each

[00:22:27] time I

[00:22:27] do it,

[00:22:28] I'm learning

[00:22:28] more of

[00:22:29] how to

[00:22:29] respond to

[00:22:30] those

[00:22:31] situations.

[00:22:32] most of

[00:22:33] the youth

[00:22:33] I teach

[00:22:34] are very

[00:22:35] well

[00:22:35] respected,

[00:22:36] respectful,

[00:22:37] very well

[00:22:39] behaved,

[00:22:39] very

[00:22:40] respectful.

[00:22:41] So,

[00:22:42] I don't

[00:22:43] have too

[00:22:44] much of

[00:22:44] issues with

[00:22:45] that,

[00:22:45] but yeah,

[00:22:46] there are

[00:22:47] times where

[00:22:48] it's just

[00:22:48] kind of,

[00:22:49] you just

[00:22:50] got to

[00:22:52] realize that

[00:22:52] people are

[00:22:53] people and

[00:22:54] hopefully it

[00:22:55] doesn't throw

[00:22:56] you off your

[00:22:57] game to

[00:22:58] the point

[00:22:59] where you

[00:22:59] can't collect

[00:23:00] your thoughts

[00:23:01] again.

[00:23:01] Yeah.

[00:23:02] Well,

[00:23:03] I said I

[00:23:03] had kind

[00:23:04] of two

[00:23:04] competing

[00:23:05] questions in

[00:23:05] my brain.

[00:23:06] And the

[00:23:06] other one

[00:23:06] is,

[00:23:07] you know,

[00:23:07] you addressed

[00:23:08] like how

[00:23:09] the heck

[00:23:10] do you

[00:23:11] teach

[00:23:11] teenagers?

[00:23:14] So,

[00:23:14] like,

[00:23:15] yeah,

[00:23:15] you are

[00:23:16] like vocationally

[00:23:17] these days

[00:23:18] a youth

[00:23:19] pastor,

[00:23:20] which means

[00:23:20] you teach

[00:23:20] teenagers a

[00:23:21] lot.

[00:23:22] Right.

[00:23:22] What are

[00:23:23] the things

[00:23:23] that you've

[00:23:23] learned about

[00:23:24] communicating

[00:23:25] the Bible

[00:23:25] to teenagers?

[00:23:26] I feel

[00:23:28] like

[00:23:30] there's

[00:23:30] a lot

[00:23:30] of negative

[00:23:33] stereotypes

[00:23:33] about this

[00:23:35] current

[00:23:35] generation

[00:23:35] that in

[00:23:38] my experience

[00:23:39] in interacting

[00:23:40] with the

[00:23:40] ones I

[00:23:41] do,

[00:23:41] it don't

[00:23:42] really hold

[00:23:43] true.

[00:23:44] Okay.

[00:23:44] I do feel

[00:23:45] like because

[00:23:46] of the

[00:23:48] digital age

[00:23:49] we live

[00:23:49] in,

[00:23:50] the social

[00:23:51] media age,

[00:23:52] whatever you

[00:23:53] want to call

[00:23:53] it,

[00:23:53] where we

[00:23:54] have access

[00:23:55] to information

[00:23:57] and videos

[00:24:00] and things

[00:24:02] that take

[00:24:03] our attention,

[00:24:04] we have

[00:24:05] access to

[00:24:07] them at

[00:24:07] our fingertips,

[00:24:08] that it

[00:24:09] does,

[00:24:10] I would say,

[00:24:11] create a

[00:24:13] overall maybe

[00:24:13] lower

[00:24:15] attention span.

[00:24:17] Okay.

[00:24:17] But with

[00:24:18] that,

[00:24:18] I don't think

[00:24:19] that means

[00:24:21] that there's

[00:24:22] any less

[00:24:23] interest

[00:24:23] or any

[00:24:24] less

[00:24:26] intelligence

[00:24:27] and ability

[00:24:29] to understand

[00:24:30] scripture.

[00:24:31] And so,

[00:24:31] I teach it

[00:24:33] pretty much

[00:24:34] like I would

[00:24:35] teach adults.

[00:24:36] I,

[00:24:37] you know,

[00:24:38] try to

[00:24:39] use stories

[00:24:40] and illustrations

[00:24:42] that are

[00:24:43] meaningful to

[00:24:45] the text

[00:24:46] and will get

[00:24:46] people's

[00:24:47] attention.

[00:24:48] try to

[00:24:49] devote humor

[00:24:50] as much

[00:24:51] as I can

[00:24:51] because,

[00:24:52] you know,

[00:24:53] most people

[00:24:53] like to

[00:24:54] laugh,

[00:24:54] especially

[00:24:55] kids.

[00:24:56] That's true

[00:24:57] for adults

[00:24:58] as well.

[00:24:58] And so,

[00:25:00] in terms

[00:25:00] of the

[00:25:01] youth,

[00:25:01] I do

[00:25:02] feel like

[00:25:04] one of

[00:25:05] my,

[00:25:06] I guess,

[00:25:07] concerns,

[00:25:08] or not

[00:25:08] concerns,

[00:25:08] but one

[00:25:09] of my

[00:25:10] things I

[00:25:11] pay attention

[00:25:12] to is the

[00:25:12] length,

[00:25:13] how long

[00:25:13] I go,

[00:25:14] because I

[00:25:15] remember as

[00:25:16] a teenager,

[00:25:16] my attention

[00:25:17] span wasn't

[00:25:18] super long,

[00:25:19] and then add

[00:25:20] to that

[00:25:20] just our,

[00:25:21] the kind

[00:25:22] of culture

[00:25:23] and society

[00:25:24] we live in

[00:25:24] now where,

[00:25:26] with all

[00:25:26] the information

[00:25:27] we have

[00:25:28] access to,

[00:25:28] it is

[00:25:29] shorter,

[00:25:30] I feel like,

[00:25:31] so,

[00:25:31] but with

[00:25:32] that said,

[00:25:33] I still go

[00:25:34] 20 to 30

[00:25:35] minutes per,

[00:25:36] for a message

[00:25:37] to them,

[00:25:37] and I,

[00:25:38] like I said,

[00:25:39] they,

[00:25:39] they,

[00:25:40] for the most

[00:25:41] part,

[00:25:41] are extremely

[00:25:42] well-behaved

[00:25:43] and attentive

[00:25:44] and,

[00:25:45] um,

[00:25:45] uh,

[00:25:46] yeah,

[00:25:47] I think it

[00:25:47] just depends

[00:25:48] on,

[00:25:48] I guess,

[00:25:49] the person,

[00:25:49] you know,

[00:25:49] but,

[00:25:50] I,

[00:25:50] I went

[00:25:51] into this

[00:25:52] job,

[00:25:52] I think,

[00:25:53] kind of

[00:25:53] with the,

[00:25:54] um,

[00:25:54] believing a

[00:25:55] lot of the

[00:25:56] stereotypes

[00:25:56] of this

[00:25:57] generation,

[00:25:58] and I've

[00:25:58] been humbled

[00:26:00] to have

[00:26:01] been,

[00:26:01] uh,

[00:26:02] shown,

[00:26:03] I feel like

[00:26:04] the Lord's

[00:26:04] shown me

[00:26:05] that,

[00:26:06] uh,

[00:26:06] he always

[00:26:07] has his

[00:26:08] remnant,

[00:26:09] you know,

[00:26:10] that he

[00:26:10] always has

[00:26:10] people who

[00:26:12] are loyal to

[00:26:13] him,

[00:26:13] faithful to

[00:26:14] him,

[00:26:14] and age

[00:26:16] does not

[00:26:17] determine that,

[00:26:18] you know,

[00:26:19] and there's,

[00:26:19] I've been so

[00:26:21] encouraged and

[00:26:22] excited to see

[00:26:23] a number of

[00:26:25] youth,

[00:26:26] uh,

[00:26:27] just on fire

[00:26:28] for the Lord

[00:26:28] and,

[00:26:29] um,

[00:26:31] hungry for

[00:26:31] his word.

[00:26:33] Even before

[00:26:34] we hit record,

[00:26:35] we were just

[00:26:35] talking and I

[00:26:36] was saying how

[00:26:37] some of these

[00:26:38] young adults in

[00:26:39] your youth group,

[00:26:40] they give me

[00:26:40] hope for Gen Z,

[00:26:41] so that's

[00:26:42] exciting.

[00:26:43] Yeah,

[00:26:43] it is.

[00:26:44] I,

[00:26:44] I have been

[00:26:45] really,

[00:26:46] really,

[00:26:46] uh,

[00:26:47] blown away

[00:26:48] by some

[00:26:49] of the,

[00:26:50] the maturity

[00:26:51] in,

[00:26:52] in the youth

[00:26:53] I've,

[00:26:54] I've dealt

[00:26:54] with the last

[00:26:55] couple years

[00:26:55] and,

[00:26:56] uh,

[00:26:57] there's just,

[00:26:58] I think the

[00:26:59] Lord has

[00:27:00] his people,

[00:27:01] you know,

[00:27:01] he,

[00:27:02] he's not done

[00:27:03] with this

[00:27:03] generation and

[00:27:04] I think he's

[00:27:05] gonna,

[00:27:05] um,

[00:27:05] do something

[00:27:06] special in

[00:27:07] it.

[00:27:08] I,

[00:27:08] I think with

[00:27:09] any,

[00:27:10] uh,

[00:27:10] anytime you're,

[00:27:11] you're ministering

[00:27:12] to,

[00:27:13] um,

[00:27:14] a demographic,

[00:27:15] whatever that

[00:27:15] demographic may

[00:27:16] be,

[00:27:17] there's always

[00:27:18] things you

[00:27:18] want to be

[00:27:19] aware of,

[00:27:20] or like certain,

[00:27:20] um,

[00:27:21] characteristics you

[00:27:22] want to be

[00:27:23] aware of,

[00:27:23] and so,

[00:27:25] uh,

[00:27:25] there's certainly

[00:27:26] this,

[00:27:27] that,

[00:27:27] that certainly

[00:27:27] holds true

[00:27:28] with youth,

[00:27:29] but I think

[00:27:29] overall,

[00:27:30] they're,

[00:27:31] they're,

[00:27:32] the hunger

[00:27:33] and the ability

[00:27:34] to,

[00:27:35] um,

[00:27:36] uh,

[00:27:36] process

[00:27:38] scriptural

[00:27:38] text is,

[00:27:39] is there

[00:27:40] and it's,

[00:27:41] a lot of

[00:27:42] it just

[00:27:43] comes down

[00:27:43] to,

[00:27:43] uh,

[00:27:45] making it

[00:27:47] tangible for

[00:27:48] him,

[00:27:49] you know,

[00:27:49] making it

[00:27:49] accessible for

[00:27:50] him,

[00:27:51] because so

[00:27:51] many of the

[00:27:52] kids come

[00:27:53] from unbelieving

[00:27:54] households,

[00:27:55] and so,

[00:27:56] uh,

[00:27:56] they,

[00:27:57] they might

[00:27:58] not have

[00:27:59] access to,

[00:28:00] this might

[00:28:01] be the first

[00:28:01] time they've

[00:28:02] ever heard

[00:28:02] the Bible

[00:28:03] is coming

[00:28:04] to youth

[00:28:04] group,

[00:28:04] and so,

[00:28:05] uh,

[00:28:05] you want

[00:28:06] to make

[00:28:06] that

[00:28:07] accessible

[00:28:08] and tangible

[00:28:09] and not

[00:28:10] feel like

[00:28:10] it's some,

[00:28:11] um,

[00:28:12] uh,

[00:28:13] mysterious

[00:28:13] thing that

[00:28:14] they can't

[00:28:14] get into

[00:28:15] because maybe

[00:28:16] they're the

[00:28:17] first one

[00:28:17] in their

[00:28:18] family with

[00:28:18] an interest

[00:28:19] in it.

[00:28:19] Wow.

[00:28:21] Yeah.

[00:28:22] You mentioned,

[00:28:23] you know,

[00:28:23] the shorter

[00:28:24] attention spans,

[00:28:25] and maybe it's,

[00:28:26] you know,

[00:28:26] I think maybe

[00:28:27] you learned

[00:28:27] it's not as

[00:28:28] bad as you

[00:28:28] initially

[00:28:29] thought.

[00:28:29] Right.

[00:28:30] Maybe do

[00:28:31] you have

[00:28:31] any brief

[00:28:31] thoughts on

[00:28:32] like how

[00:28:32] do you

[00:28:33] teach

[00:28:34] 30 minutes

[00:28:35] long,

[00:28:36] long time

[00:28:36] with an

[00:28:37] awareness

[00:28:37] of the

[00:28:38] short

[00:28:38] attention

[00:28:39] spans?

[00:28:39] Like are

[00:28:39] you adding

[00:28:40] certain

[00:28:40] elements

[00:28:41] at

[00:28:41] certain

[00:28:41] points?

[00:28:42] Yeah,

[00:28:43] I will

[00:28:44] try to,

[00:28:45] uh,

[00:28:45] if,

[00:28:46] if I have

[00:28:47] multiple,

[00:28:48] um,

[00:28:49] points,

[00:28:50] yeah,

[00:28:51] I will try

[00:28:51] to add

[00:28:52] maybe a

[00:28:53] couple

[00:28:53] different

[00:28:54] stories

[00:28:54] in there.

[00:28:56] Okay.

[00:28:56] Um,

[00:28:56] again,

[00:28:58] try not to

[00:28:59] make them

[00:29:00] like my

[00:29:00] primary

[00:29:01] material,

[00:29:03] but enough

[00:29:04] to where

[00:29:04] it transitions

[00:29:05] from maybe

[00:29:06] one point

[00:29:07] to another.

[00:29:09] So they're,

[00:29:09] they're not

[00:29:10] just,

[00:29:11] um,

[00:29:11] it's not

[00:29:12] one long

[00:29:13] 30 minute

[00:29:14] thought on

[00:29:15] something that

[00:29:16] doesn't have

[00:29:17] any sort of

[00:29:17] change to

[00:29:18] it,

[00:29:18] if that makes

[00:29:19] sense.

[00:29:19] So,

[00:29:20] um,

[00:29:20] try to

[00:29:21] transition

[00:29:22] with stories

[00:29:23] to different

[00:29:24] points.

[00:29:24] Um,

[00:29:25] I feel like

[00:29:25] that helps

[00:29:26] a lot

[00:29:26] because it,

[00:29:27] it engages

[00:29:28] and it,

[00:29:29] you're naturally

[00:29:31] like we

[00:29:32] said,

[00:29:32] you're kind

[00:29:33] of naturally

[00:29:33] in tune

[00:29:34] with stories.

[00:29:34] Everybody

[00:29:35] likes a good

[00:29:35] story.

[00:29:36] Of course.

[00:29:37] Um,

[00:29:37] and,

[00:29:37] and then I

[00:29:38] also try

[00:29:39] to,

[00:29:40] it's funny

[00:29:41] how you,

[00:29:41] for me,

[00:29:43] we're in

[00:29:44] a small

[00:29:45] enough area

[00:29:46] that I,

[00:29:46] I can see

[00:29:48] my,

[00:29:48] the kids

[00:29:50] faces.

[00:29:50] And so I

[00:29:51] can a lot

[00:29:52] of times

[00:29:52] pick up

[00:29:53] if I'm

[00:29:53] losing them.

[00:29:54] And I,

[00:29:54] I guess you

[00:29:55] can kind

[00:29:55] of do that

[00:29:56] at any,

[00:29:57] any setting.

[00:29:58] But if I

[00:29:59] see that

[00:30:00] I'm starting

[00:30:00] to lose

[00:30:00] them,

[00:30:01] then I'll

[00:30:01] try to,

[00:30:02] um,

[00:30:03] maybe adjust

[00:30:03] my approach,

[00:30:04] ask a

[00:30:05] question,

[00:30:05] um,

[00:30:06] just to get

[00:30:07] people's

[00:30:07] attention again,

[00:30:09] um,

[00:30:09] uh,

[00:30:10] get people

[00:30:10] talking.

[00:30:11] Yeah.

[00:30:11] If,

[00:30:11] if it gets

[00:30:12] too silent

[00:30:13] too,

[00:30:13] that sometimes

[00:30:14] can be a

[00:30:15] bad thing

[00:30:15] because then

[00:30:17] you,

[00:30:17] you lose

[00:30:18] their

[00:30:18] engagement.

[00:30:19] So there,

[00:30:20] yeah,

[00:30:20] I feel like

[00:30:21] there is a

[00:30:28] fear and

[00:30:28] if they're

[00:30:29] not,

[00:30:29] how can

[00:30:29] I get

[00:30:30] them back?

[00:30:30] And so

[00:30:31] usually I'll

[00:30:31] try to

[00:30:32] use,

[00:30:32] yeah,

[00:30:33] little

[00:30:33] anecdotes

[00:30:34] or questions.

[00:30:35] Oh,

[00:30:35] questions,

[00:30:36] um,

[00:30:38] for me tend

[00:30:39] to work

[00:30:39] well because

[00:30:39] you can,

[00:30:40] whatever,

[00:30:41] wherever you're

[00:30:42] at in your

[00:30:42] sermon or

[00:30:43] you can just

[00:30:44] be like

[00:30:45] bring a

[00:30:46] question out

[00:30:47] of the

[00:30:47] point you're

[00:30:47] wanting to

[00:30:48] make or

[00:30:48] this text.

[00:30:49] Like,

[00:30:49] what did

[00:30:50] that mean?

[00:30:50] You know,

[00:30:50] what does

[00:30:51] Jesus mean

[00:30:51] by it when

[00:30:52] he says

[00:30:52] this or

[00:30:53] whatever?

[00:30:53] Yeah.

[00:30:54] And all

[00:30:54] of a sudden

[00:30:55] that takes

[00:30:55] the attention

[00:30:56] off you and

[00:30:57] it gives

[00:30:57] them the

[00:30:58] attention and

[00:30:59] a lot of

[00:30:59] times that's

[00:31:00] what they

[00:31:00] need.

[00:31:01] And you're

[00:31:02] right at

[00:31:02] any point,

[00:31:04] at any

[00:31:04] unplanned

[00:31:05] moment,

[00:31:06] you know,

[00:31:07] you could,

[00:31:07] you could

[00:31:07] ask a question

[00:31:08] about the

[00:31:08] verse in

[00:31:09] front of

[00:31:09] you.

[00:31:09] Totally.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:10] All right.

[00:31:11] That's gold.

[00:31:12] Yeah.

[00:31:13] Is there

[00:31:14] any like,

[00:31:16] on the

[00:31:17] are there

[00:31:17] like resources

[00:31:18] for youth

[00:31:19] pastors that

[00:31:21] have been

[00:31:21] helpful for

[00:31:22] you?

[00:31:22] Is there

[00:31:22] like a

[00:31:23] youth

[00:31:24] pastor

[00:31:24] collective

[00:31:25] podcast that

[00:31:26] exists out

[00:31:27] there?

[00:31:27] Yes,

[00:31:28] I believe

[00:31:28] there is.

[00:31:30] Do you

[00:31:30] know what

[00:31:30] it's

[00:31:30] called?

[00:31:34] There,

[00:31:35] can you

[00:31:36] edit?

[00:31:37] No edits.

[00:31:39] No edits.

[00:31:40] Because I'm

[00:31:41] not positive.

[00:31:42] I can find

[00:31:42] that out.

[00:31:43] Sure.

[00:31:43] Yeah.

[00:31:44] Yeah.

[00:31:45] But yeah,

[00:31:46] there's a

[00:31:47] couple resources

[00:31:47] I use.

[00:31:48] There's

[00:31:51] student

[00:31:51] ministry.

[00:31:52] There's

[00:31:53] called

[00:31:54] rooted.

[00:31:54] R-O-T-E-D.

[00:31:56] I actually

[00:31:57] listened to

[00:31:57] their podcast.

[00:31:58] Yes.

[00:31:59] That's a

[00:31:59] great one.

[00:32:00] They did a

[00:32:00] great series

[00:32:01] through the

[00:32:02] summer on the

[00:32:03] mount.

[00:32:04] And some

[00:32:05] great stuff

[00:32:05] of like teaching

[00:32:06] at their

[00:32:07] conferences,

[00:32:08] but then

[00:32:08] act like

[00:32:09] good conversation

[00:32:10] about like,

[00:32:11] here's how

[00:32:12] to teach

[00:32:12] the

[00:32:13] summer on

[00:32:13] the

[00:32:13] mount.

[00:32:14] So,

[00:32:14] yeah,

[00:32:14] totally.

[00:32:15] So,

[00:32:15] that's one

[00:32:15] of my

[00:32:16] favorites.

[00:32:16] They do

[00:32:17] a great

[00:32:17] job.

[00:32:18] I'm thrilled

[00:32:18] because I'm

[00:32:19] not into a

[00:32:19] lot of

[00:32:20] youth ministry

[00:32:20] stuff.

[00:32:21] In fact,

[00:32:22] that's like

[00:32:23] the only

[00:32:23] youth ministry

[00:32:24] I've listened

[00:32:25] to.

[00:32:25] You found

[00:32:25] a good

[00:32:26] one.

[00:32:26] Let's just

[00:32:27] end it

[00:32:27] there.

[00:32:28] We

[00:32:29] wholeheartedly

[00:32:29] endorse

[00:32:30] Rooted.

[00:32:32] Yeah.

[00:32:32] So,

[00:32:33] that's one

[00:32:33] of the

[00:32:34] primary ones.

[00:32:35] I do,

[00:32:37] there's

[00:32:37] another one

[00:32:38] and that's

[00:32:40] the one

[00:32:40] I had

[00:32:41] space

[00:32:41] nominated.

[00:32:42] Okay.

[00:32:42] We'll

[00:32:43] link in

[00:32:43] the show

[00:32:43] notes.

[00:32:44] Yeah,

[00:32:44] perfect.

[00:32:45] For Dan's

[00:32:46] second

[00:32:46] choice.

[00:32:47] The silver

[00:32:47] medal.

[00:32:48] Okay,

[00:32:48] kind of

[00:32:48] last question.

[00:32:49] We always,

[00:32:50] every episode

[00:32:50] always starts

[00:32:51] with like

[00:32:51] your first

[00:32:52] sermon and

[00:32:52] then we

[00:32:53] always end

[00:32:53] with like

[00:32:54] how are

[00:32:54] you

[00:32:54] trying to

[00:32:55] improve

[00:32:55] for your

[00:32:56] next

[00:32:57] sermon?

[00:32:58] Kind of,

[00:32:59] if I could

[00:32:59] put a spin

[00:33:00] on that

[00:33:00] question,

[00:33:01] how has

[00:33:02] Expositors

[00:33:03] Collective

[00:33:03] helped you

[00:33:04] improve

[00:33:05] over the

[00:33:05] years?

[00:33:06] Okay,

[00:33:06] well,

[00:33:06] like forgive

[00:33:07] the self.

[00:33:08] Yeah.

[00:33:09] I mean,

[00:33:09] it's the

[00:33:10] Expositors

[00:33:10] Collective

[00:33:11] podcast.

[00:33:11] Yeah.

[00:33:11] We should

[00:33:12] talk about

[00:33:12] it.

[00:33:15] I think

[00:33:16] I've been

[00:33:16] to three

[00:33:16] now and

[00:33:19] each time

[00:33:20] I feel

[00:33:20] like I

[00:33:21] have

[00:33:22] learned

[00:33:23] in a

[00:33:24] good way

[00:33:25] what some

[00:33:26] of my

[00:33:26] weaknesses

[00:33:27] are,

[00:33:27] those things

[00:33:28] I need to

[00:33:28] work on,

[00:33:29] which is

[00:33:30] essentially

[00:33:30] what you

[00:33:31] want from

[00:33:31] a training

[00:33:32] like that

[00:33:33] because,

[00:33:34] if we

[00:33:35] want to

[00:33:36] improve,

[00:33:36] we need

[00:33:36] to know

[00:33:37] where to

[00:33:37] improve.

[00:33:38] And like

[00:33:39] I mentioned

[00:33:39] earlier,

[00:33:40] one of the

[00:33:41] last ones,

[00:33:42] I realized

[00:33:44] that,

[00:33:44] and this

[00:33:45] was what

[00:33:45] really got

[00:33:46] me thinking

[00:33:46] about how

[00:33:49] balance

[00:33:50] works with

[00:33:52] illustrations.

[00:33:53] And it

[00:33:54] just,

[00:33:56] there needs

[00:33:57] to be a

[00:33:57] balance there.

[00:33:58] And this

[00:33:59] last time

[00:33:59] I was there,

[00:34:00] I realized

[00:34:01] I still

[00:34:01] struggle with

[00:34:02] that.

[00:34:02] Some of

[00:34:03] that may

[00:34:03] be because

[00:34:04] I do

[00:34:05] speak to

[00:34:05] youth,

[00:34:06] you know,

[00:34:07] not making

[00:34:07] excuses or

[00:34:08] anything,

[00:34:09] but I do

[00:34:10] feel like

[00:34:10] there's,

[00:34:12] we get

[00:34:12] into our

[00:34:13] routines and

[00:34:15] that comes

[00:34:16] out in

[00:34:17] our preaching

[00:34:18] and the

[00:34:20] expositors

[00:34:21] for me has

[00:34:22] been great

[00:34:23] because it's

[00:34:24] allowed me

[00:34:25] to actually

[00:34:27] process and

[00:34:29] look at

[00:34:30] preaching as

[00:34:32] a tangible

[00:34:33] thing,

[00:34:34] if that

[00:34:34] makes sense.

[00:34:35] Whereas I

[00:34:36] think in

[00:34:36] my mind

[00:34:37] before it

[00:34:38] was always

[00:34:39] kind of

[00:34:39] this intangible

[00:34:40] of like,

[00:34:41] well,

[00:34:41] I'll make

[00:34:41] notes and

[00:34:44] of,

[00:34:44] you know,

[00:34:45] thoughts that

[00:34:46] I have.

[00:34:46] Yeah.

[00:34:47] But I

[00:34:47] hadn't,

[00:34:48] there was

[00:34:48] no order

[00:34:49] to the

[00:34:49] chaos.

[00:34:50] Sure.

[00:34:50] Yeah.

[00:34:51] So the

[00:34:53] expositors

[00:34:53] collective for

[00:34:54] me has brought

[00:34:55] in order to

[00:34:56] the chaos,

[00:34:57] allowed me to

[00:34:59] realize areas

[00:35:00] I need to

[00:35:01] hone in on.

[00:35:02] It allowed me

[00:35:02] to realize that

[00:35:03] there's ways

[00:35:05] of doing

[00:35:07] things.

[00:35:07] The first

[00:35:07] one I

[00:35:09] went to,

[00:35:09] I didn't

[00:35:09] even know

[00:35:10] you could

[00:35:11] manuscript a

[00:35:12] sermon or,

[00:35:13] you know,

[00:35:14] I was,

[00:35:15] my mind was

[00:35:16] blown.

[00:35:17] I was like,

[00:35:17] wait,

[00:35:17] you can write

[00:35:18] it out

[00:35:18] beforehand?

[00:35:20] So,

[00:35:21] you know,

[00:35:21] there's things

[00:35:22] like that

[00:35:22] where it's

[00:35:25] very practical

[00:35:28] tools that

[00:35:29] I've been

[00:35:29] able to

[00:35:30] use in

[00:35:31] my prep

[00:35:32] because,

[00:35:33] like I

[00:35:34] said,

[00:35:36] I kind

[00:35:37] of have

[00:35:37] this idea

[00:35:38] of,

[00:35:39] yeah,

[00:35:39] you make

[00:35:40] notes and

[00:35:40] then you

[00:35:42] kind of,

[00:35:42] it's like

[00:35:42] you're juggling

[00:35:43] and you just

[00:35:44] throw the

[00:35:44] balls up in

[00:35:45] the air and

[00:35:45] hope the

[00:35:46] Lord,

[00:35:46] like,

[00:35:47] brings them

[00:35:48] back to

[00:35:48] your hands,

[00:35:49] you know,

[00:35:50] and that it

[00:35:51] all makes

[00:35:51] sense at

[00:35:52] the end,

[00:35:53] but it's

[00:35:55] kind of

[00:35:55] allowed me

[00:35:56] to,

[00:35:56] I guess,

[00:35:58] really hum

[00:35:58] in on

[00:35:58] areas I

[00:35:59] need to

[00:35:59] improve on,

[00:36:00] which has

[00:36:00] been a

[00:36:01] huge blessing.

[00:36:02] Yeah,

[00:36:03] well,

[00:36:03] excellent.

[00:36:03] Yeah,

[00:36:03] thanks for

[00:36:04] coming.

[00:36:05] Yes.

[00:36:05] Not once,

[00:36:06] not twice,

[00:36:07] but three

[00:36:07] times.

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:09] And yeah,

[00:36:10] glad to hear

[00:36:11] it.

[00:36:11] And I,

[00:36:11] you know,

[00:36:12] I remember

[00:36:13] in the early

[00:36:14] years of my

[00:36:14] own sermon

[00:36:15] preparation

[00:36:16] journey,

[00:36:17] the exact

[00:36:17] same thing,

[00:36:18] just open

[00:36:19] the Bible,

[00:36:20] write down

[00:36:21] thoughts,

[00:36:21] thoughts about

[00:36:22] every verse,

[00:36:23] and then

[00:36:24] maybe open

[00:36:25] a commentary,

[00:36:26] write down

[00:36:27] some interesting

[00:36:27] thoughts about

[00:36:28] some of those

[00:36:29] verses,

[00:36:30] maybe look up

[00:36:30] a dictionary,

[00:36:31] and then just

[00:36:32] like,

[00:36:34] and then just

[00:36:35] stand up in

[00:36:36] front of people

[00:36:36] and then just

[00:36:37] like,

[00:36:38] give like a

[00:36:39] book report

[00:36:39] on these

[00:36:40] things that I

[00:36:41] found,

[00:36:41] you know,

[00:36:42] just like

[00:36:42] this,

[00:36:44] yeah,

[00:36:45] this unceasing

[00:36:45] stream of

[00:36:46] information

[00:36:47] connected to

[00:36:49] the verses

[00:36:50] in sequence,

[00:36:51] you know,

[00:36:52] and you

[00:36:52] know,

[00:36:53] there's

[00:36:54] worse things

[00:36:54] to do

[00:36:55] than that,

[00:36:55] I guess,

[00:36:56] but I'll

[00:36:56] bet it's

[00:36:56] like,

[00:36:57] what if

[00:36:57] you took

[00:36:57] that

[00:36:57] information

[00:36:59] and arranged

[00:37:00] it in a

[00:37:00] way that

[00:37:01] was helpful

[00:37:02] to people

[00:37:02] and that

[00:37:02] made sense,

[00:37:03] you know,

[00:37:03] and was

[00:37:04] memorable,

[00:37:05] right?

[00:37:05] Because,

[00:37:06] you know,

[00:37:06] like the

[00:37:06] goal isn't

[00:37:07] to just

[00:37:07] for people

[00:37:08] to listen

[00:37:09] to you

[00:37:09] for 30

[00:37:09] minutes.

[00:37:10] The goal

[00:37:10] is for

[00:37:11] like these

[00:37:11] truths to

[00:37:12] find place

[00:37:13] in their

[00:37:13] heart,

[00:37:14] to change

[00:37:14] lives.

[00:37:15] And,

[00:37:16] you know,

[00:37:16] if somebody

[00:37:17] remembers what

[00:37:18] you say,

[00:37:18] then there's

[00:37:19] a greater

[00:37:20] increased chance

[00:37:21] of it actually

[00:37:21] taking roots

[00:37:22] and then

[00:37:22] causing that

[00:37:23] life transformation

[00:37:23] to take place.

[00:37:24] Yes,

[00:37:25] yeah,

[00:37:26] I agree.

[00:37:27] It doesn't

[00:37:29] have to be

[00:37:30] like this

[00:37:30] big daunting,

[00:37:32] at least for

[00:37:33] me going

[00:37:33] through the

[00:37:34] collectives,

[00:37:35] I realized

[00:37:36] that preparing

[00:37:38] a sermon

[00:37:38] doesn't have

[00:37:38] to be this

[00:37:39] big daunting,

[00:37:41] unattainable

[00:37:41] thing.

[00:37:42] if you have

[00:37:43] to do it

[00:37:43] every week,

[00:37:44] there needs

[00:37:45] to be some

[00:37:46] sort of

[00:37:48] cohesion

[00:37:48] to it.

[00:37:49] And I

[00:37:50] think for

[00:37:50] me,

[00:37:51] it's kind

[00:37:51] of broken

[00:37:52] it down

[00:37:52] into an

[00:37:54] attainable

[00:37:55] thing,

[00:37:55] you know,

[00:37:55] where,

[00:37:56] okay,

[00:37:56] I can

[00:37:58] come up

[00:37:59] with a

[00:37:59] finished

[00:37:59] product

[00:38:00] in a

[00:38:01] certain amount

[00:38:01] of time

[00:38:02] and it's

[00:38:02] cohesive

[00:38:03] as a

[00:38:03] point.

[00:38:04] And it's

[00:38:05] true to

[00:38:05] the text,

[00:38:06] you know.

[00:38:07] Yeah.

[00:38:08] Well,

[00:38:08] that's great.

[00:38:09] Well,

[00:38:09] Dan,

[00:38:09] thanks.

[00:38:10] Thanks for

[00:38:10] endorsing

[00:38:11] the Rooted

[00:38:11] Podcast

[00:38:13] and our

[00:38:14] events.

[00:38:15] And yeah,

[00:38:16] I know

[00:38:16] that we

[00:38:17] have a

[00:38:17] lot of

[00:38:17] youth

[00:38:18] leaders

[00:38:18] who

[00:38:19] listen.

[00:38:20] And so

[00:38:20] I wanted

[00:38:21] specifically

[00:38:21] to have

[00:38:21] stuff for

[00:38:23] those guys.

[00:38:24] So thanks

[00:38:24] for encouraging

[00:38:25] them as well.

[00:38:25] Thank you.

[00:38:26] Thank you

[00:38:26] for having me.

[00:38:27] It's an

[00:38:27] honor.

[00:38:28] Well,

[00:38:29] and to

[00:38:29] those who

[00:38:30] are listening,

[00:38:30] I hope

[00:38:30] that this

[00:38:31] conversation

[00:38:31] and all

[00:38:32] that we

[00:38:32] do at

[00:38:32] Exponsor

[00:38:33] Collective

[00:38:33] helps you

[00:38:34] to grow

[00:38:34] in your

[00:38:35] personal

[00:38:35] study

[00:38:36] and public

[00:38:36] proclamation

[00:38:37] of God's

[00:38:38] word.

[00:38:43] All right.

[00:38:44] Well,

[00:38:44] thanks for

[00:38:45] listening.

[00:38:45] I hope

[00:38:46] that was

[00:38:46] an

[00:38:47] encouraging

[00:38:47] conversation,

[00:38:48] whether you

[00:38:49] are involved

[00:38:50] with Christian

[00:38:51] surfers,

[00:38:52] teenagers,

[00:38:53] Gen Z,

[00:38:54] or if

[00:38:55] you're just

[00:38:56] listening every

[00:38:57] week,

[00:38:57] hoping to

[00:38:58] grow in

[00:38:58] your personal

[00:38:59] study and

[00:38:59] public

[00:39:00] proclamation

[00:39:00] of God's

[00:39:01] word,

[00:39:02] I appreciate

[00:39:03] you.

[00:39:03] I hope

[00:39:04] this helps

[00:39:05] and can't

[00:39:06] wait to

[00:39:07] next

[00:39:07] Tuesday.

[00:39:08] Next

[00:39:09] Tuesday,

[00:39:09] there is

[00:39:10] a great

[00:39:11] recording

[00:39:11] from Brian

[00:39:12] Stupar

[00:39:13] talking about

[00:39:14] the character

[00:39:15] of a

[00:39:16] Bible teacher

[00:39:17] and the

[00:39:17] importance of

[00:39:18] having our

[00:39:18] character

[00:39:19] lead the

[00:39:20] way.

[00:39:20] All right,

[00:39:21] see you

[00:39:22] next Tuesday.

[00:39:24] This podcast

[00:39:24] is a part of

[00:39:25] CGN Media,

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