Bivocational Ministry, Self-Criticism and 4am Alarm Clocks with Simon Lawrenson

[00:00:00] I think the biggest challenge I've faced from myself is that, you know, that critical kind of self-evaluative kind of not being too hard on yourself, letting the Word of God do what it's going to do, not looking for instant results.

[00:00:15] Expecting that God's going to use it and I think there is that kind of balance isn't it between expecting God to do what he's going to do in his Word because he's promised he's going to do it

[00:00:23] And recognizing that change is normally slow.

[00:00:30] Hey, welcome to the Expositors Collective Podcast, Episode 344. I'm your host, Mike Neglia.

[00:00:36] And the voice that you heard at the beginning is our guest for this week, Simon Lawrenson.

[00:00:42] Simon is pastoring in the beautiful Southampton in the UK.

[00:00:49] And this is a conversation that he and I sat down to have all the way back in the summer of 2019.

[00:00:57] Guys, I can't believe this podcast has been going this long.

[00:01:01] This was originally Episode 73, but I decided to reach into the archives and re-release this episode.

[00:01:09] And here's why. I was having a conversation with somebody in real life and I was talking to them about the surprising benefits of waking up at 4am on Sunday mornings.

[00:01:23] And I was trying to convince this person to give it a shot.

[00:01:28] And afterwards, I remembered this recorded conversation with Simon where we both agree that it is a good and godly and fun and exciting thing to set your alarm clock for 4am.

[00:01:43] And so I went and I scrolled way back, found this episode and then sent it.

[00:01:49] And then I thought, you know what? This episode's too good to just send it to one person.

[00:01:53] I want to send it to everybody.

[00:01:55] And so guys, I hope you enjoyed this re-broadcast of a conversation that is five years old but still rings incredibly true.

[00:02:06] I hope that you benefit from it.

[00:02:09] Happy September, well September 2024.

[00:02:13] You know, I know that life for many preachers and church workers is kind of coming back to, it's kind of picking up pace again.

[00:02:21] Some of the ministries that took the summer off are now back on.

[00:02:24] And I hope and I pray that this can be just a few moments of lighthearted encouragement or that it can even just be something that stirs within you just the energy for this next season of your life.

[00:02:41] Well, my life's getting busy because I'm probably packing to go to Uganda soon.

[00:02:49] I'll be leaving in a few days time to go be part of a three-day preaching training event in Kampala, Uganda.

[00:02:59] And I'm fundraising for it.

[00:03:01] Not for myself, but we're fundraising for the sake of the rural pastors that live on like the far corners of Uganda

[00:03:12] to be able to be transported into the capital city, to join us, to be housed and fed and encouraged.

[00:03:21] So I'm fundraising on their behalf.

[00:03:25] And if you are interested, you can go to expositorscollective.com on the left side of the screen.

[00:03:31] There is a support button and then you can scroll down and there's a tab for expositors collective Uganda.

[00:03:38] They would appreciate it. I would appreciate it.

[00:03:41] And we want to do what we can to encourage, uplift, upskill the local leaders in that nation.

[00:03:49] I'm going to let Brian Kelly and Zeddy Mizungu explain a little bit more of the heart of this.

[00:03:56] And then you're going to be transported back to 2019 to hear my conversation with Simon Lawrence.

[00:04:03] Pastor Zeddy is my name.

[00:04:04] I do pastor Kalbicapa Kampala and we're trying to get over 200 pastors to come to Kampala.

[00:04:10] It's in the middle of the city, so some are going to be traveling from way out of the country.

[00:04:15] So we're asking you guys to get involved in some way.

[00:04:18] We need your help to help these pastors get into the conference.

[00:04:21] The conference is free of charge.

[00:04:23] We want to provide it free of charge for those who can't attend.

[00:04:26] However, some of these pastors are coming from remote areas.

[00:04:28] They need to cover the cost of transportation, food and lodging while they're there.

[00:04:32] It's going to cost about $100 per pastor.

[00:04:35] So if you can help us sponsor a pastor to get to the conference, we'd really appreciate it.

[00:04:39] You can do so at the expositors collective website.

[00:04:42] Yeah, that's right. Thanks guys.

[00:04:44] I appreciate your prayers and would you help us sponsor an expositor?

[00:04:52] Hey, this is Simon Lawrence from Portsmouth.

[00:04:58] So, Simon, why don't you introduce yourself and say exactly where you are from?

[00:05:02] Alright, so I'm the city along the coast from Portsmouth in Southampton.

[00:05:06] I've been there for coming up to 17 years.

[00:05:11] So actually went out from a church from Portsmouth.

[00:05:14] So it's connected and I grew up in Portsmouth.

[00:05:16] So there's some truth to the fact that I'm from Portsmouth.

[00:05:19] So that works here.

[00:05:21] But not presently?

[00:05:21] Not presently. Presently living in Southampton.

[00:05:23] And loving it.

[00:05:24] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:26] And so you said you've been there for almost 17 years.

[00:05:29] Yeah, pretty much.

[00:05:30] And did you go there with the intention of planting the church?

[00:05:35] Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:35] So we were involved with the Calvary Chapel in Portsmouth.

[00:05:38] Okay.

[00:05:38] And we were doing some big kind of Bible teaching ministry weekends,

[00:05:43] week-long kind of Bible teaching stuff.

[00:05:45] Yeah.

[00:05:45] And people are coming from all over Europe.

[00:05:48] And we would get frequent requests.

[00:05:51] We want a Bible teaching,

[00:05:53] expository Bible teaching verse by verse kind of church.

[00:05:56] Yes.

[00:05:56] Not necessarily Calvary Chapel, but like that kind of ministry.

[00:06:00] Yes.

[00:06:01] In our towns, in our cities.

[00:06:03] And so during that process the Lord was kind of calling us to step out,

[00:06:08] go out, do something not to show where.

[00:06:10] Okay.

[00:06:11] And then we would just make these connections.

[00:06:12] And so we made a connection with a couple of families who lived in Southampton.

[00:06:16] Yeah.

[00:06:17] Although in all honesty the places that we were praying against going,

[00:06:21] if we can pray against, were Southampton just because of the rivalry

[00:06:24] between the two cities.

[00:06:25] Okay.

[00:06:26] And so the Lord has really worked on our hearts over the years.

[00:06:30] Kind of like an Israel Nineveh type rivalry or Judah Israel.

[00:06:34] You know, if you can avoid the city during football season,

[00:06:39] if any times Portsmouth are playing Southampton it is chaos.

[00:06:43] Is it?

[00:06:44] Really dangerous.

[00:06:44] Well there's a bit of rivalry between the city of Cork where I live

[00:06:47] and everywhere else in Ireland.

[00:06:49] So yeah, it's not one city specifically that we're in rivalry.

[00:06:53] It's just all of it.

[00:06:54] Hey, so when you started the church, you were teaching, preaching.

[00:06:59] Yep.

[00:06:59] Was that the first time you ever taught or preached?

[00:07:02] No.

[00:07:02] So the first Sunday morning I ever preached was 2 Peter chapter 1.

[00:07:11] Yes.

[00:07:11] And it was horrible.

[00:07:13] Yeah.

[00:07:14] 2 Peter is a complex book.

[00:07:16] Did you pick it or were you assigned it?

[00:07:17] No, I picked it.

[00:07:18] Why?

[00:07:18] Because there's a verse in there that I think just it caught me.

[00:07:24] Yeah.

[00:07:24] Where he talks about very great and precious promises.

[00:07:28] Okay, okay.

[00:07:28] And you know, he talks about putting on faith and faith virtually.

[00:07:33] Yeah, this is a good about list.

[00:07:34] But it was that first bit, the very great precious promises

[00:07:37] that really caught my kind of attention.

[00:07:40] Okay.

[00:07:40] And then, you know, I had almost committed to it.

[00:07:43] Well, I had committed to it.

[00:07:44] Yes.

[00:07:45] And then I couldn't go back.

[00:07:46] And so I had to preach it.

[00:07:48] Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:48] And fortunately, my pastor was away.

[00:07:54] And so I preached it and you know, no one ended up leaving the church.

[00:07:59] Okay.

[00:07:59] I didn't get stoned.

[00:08:00] Yes.

[00:08:01] And I'm hoping people forgot it quite quickly.

[00:08:05] Sure, sure.

[00:08:06] So yeah.

[00:08:07] So that wasn't part of a series or anything.

[00:08:10] You just as a once off.

[00:08:11] Literally my pastor was away for the week.

[00:08:13] Oh, I see.

[00:08:13] Okay.

[00:08:14] And for weekend and he said, can you step in?

[00:08:17] And I was a little bit anxious.

[00:08:20] I've been teaching kind of the youth.

[00:08:23] Oh, okay.

[00:08:24] But it wasn't like anywhere near.

[00:08:27] It was, it was sketchy.

[00:08:29] Okay.

[00:08:30] Okay.

[00:08:31] On a Friday night.

[00:08:32] So that was, that was, that was, you know, a big step up.

[00:08:35] Yes.

[00:08:35] So he went away for a weekend and he said, you know,

[00:08:38] Simon teach whatever you want to teach.

[00:08:39] Yeah.

[00:08:41] And so I did.

[00:08:42] Okay.

[00:08:43] And it wasn't disastrous.

[00:08:46] It wasn't disastrous.

[00:08:47] And actually, you know,

[00:08:48] Oh, it wasn't good either.

[00:08:49] It wasn't, you know, I didn't think so.

[00:08:51] I'm, you know, I tend to be my, my worst critic.

[00:08:54] Sure.

[00:08:55] And my, my dad came along.

[00:08:57] Yes.

[00:08:57] My dad's believer.

[00:08:58] Okay.

[00:08:58] And he's, he didn't say to me, but he said to my mom that he

[00:09:02] wished he could preach like that when he was my age.

[00:09:04] And so I was like, well, that's, you know,

[00:09:06] that's, I'm okay with that.

[00:09:07] That's great.

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:09] That's great.

[00:09:09] Okay.

[00:09:10] So that was your first one and you've,

[00:09:12] you've preached many since then.

[00:09:14] Yes.

[00:09:14] At least, at least 17 years probably more.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:17] And how have you, I guess grown as a teacher or preacher

[00:09:20] since then?

[00:09:22] I think the biggest challenge I've faced for myself is

[00:09:26] that,

[00:09:29] that,

[00:09:30] you know,

[00:09:31] that critical kind of self-evaluative kind of not

[00:09:35] being too hard on yourself,

[00:09:36] letting the word of God do what it's going to do.

[00:09:37] Yeah.

[00:09:38] Not looking for instant results.

[00:09:40] Not looking, expecting that God's going to use it.

[00:09:43] Yes.

[00:09:43] And I think there is that kind of balance, isn't it,

[00:09:45] between expecting God to do what he's going to do in his

[00:09:48] word because he's promised he's going to do it.

[00:09:50] Yeah.

[00:09:51] And,

[00:09:51] and recognizing that change is normally slow.

[00:09:56] Hmm.

[00:09:57] Yeah.

[00:09:58] And response is normally slow.

[00:09:59] Right.

[00:09:59] Right.

[00:10:00] And I think over the years I've been guilty of

[00:10:03] probably beating myself up a little bit too much where

[00:10:06] I have thought this is the sermon to bring revival to the UK.

[00:10:14] you know,

[00:10:15] six of the families are on holiday.

[00:10:18] You, my kids are sick and my wife's at home, you know,

[00:10:20] worship leaders,

[00:10:21] you know, you know, sick and then,

[00:10:23] Yeah.

[00:10:24] You know, the building doesn't get open until late

[00:10:26] and all of a sudden you're like, well,

[00:10:28] maybe that wasn't.

[00:10:29] Yeah.

[00:10:30] But then what you do-

[00:10:30] Maybe Satan did win this time.

[00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:32] There you go.

[00:10:32] And so, you know, so that kind of being fairly overly self critical.

[00:10:38] Yeah.

[00:10:38] And the sin, which, you know, I look back at absolutely the

[00:10:42] sin of thinking that my preaching is going to trump the word of

[00:10:47] God.

[00:10:47] It's going to be through my preaching,

[00:10:49] Yeah.

[00:10:50] not through the word of God in a power of the Holy Spirit.

[00:10:53] And so-

[00:10:54] So it's not the word that's the power,

[00:10:55] it's your communication of the word.

[00:10:57] Correct.

[00:10:58] Okay.

[00:10:58] And my eloquence and my new perspective and the illustrations

[00:11:04] that I've been able to, you know, and all that.

[00:11:08] And I think, you know, it's helpful to have illustrations,

[00:11:10] it's helpful to be, you know, obviously coherent and clear

[00:11:16] and concise, which I'm not by the way,

[00:11:18] never concise.

[00:11:20] But at the end of the day, I think what I've struggled

[00:11:24] with that balance, having limited time to prepare

[00:11:30] versus wanting to prepare well, but not over-prepare

[00:11:33] so that I become proud.

[00:11:36] So that's a heart issue of mine.

[00:11:37] Yes, yes, okay.

[00:11:39] Trusting that the word of God is sufficient.

[00:11:41] Okay.

[00:11:42] Yes.

[00:11:43] So that's something you've grown in and sounds like

[00:11:45] are continuing to grow in.

[00:11:46] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:11:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:11:48] So now I think my, you know, my prep is different

[00:11:53] and has become different over the years.

[00:11:56] So, you know, when you first start out,

[00:11:59] you are literally preparing for half a week,

[00:12:03] if not more, to teach a 45-minute study.

[00:12:08] And maybe it takes two or three weeks to teach that one.

[00:12:12] Oh, right.

[00:12:13] And then, you know, that sermon time goes down.

[00:12:17] And then, so for the longest, my pattern of prep,

[00:12:22] and I'll tell you how it's changed over the years,

[00:12:24] my pattern of prep was Sunday morning,

[00:12:28] four o'clock Sunday morning, get up, study the text,

[00:12:31] then preach the text.

[00:12:32] Okay.

[00:12:34] For the first time?

[00:12:35] Yeah.

[00:12:36] Really?

[00:12:36] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Really?

[00:12:38] Okay.

[00:12:39] So I like that because I felt that it wasn't,

[00:12:46] because I've been, I was working full-time.

[00:12:48] Okay.

[00:12:48] You know, I was able to say that, you know,

[00:12:53] five or six hours on a Sunday morning,

[00:12:55] the kids are asleep, my wife is asleep.

[00:12:59] I've got the house to myself.

[00:13:01] And it's just me and the Lord,

[00:13:02] and whatever he lays on my heart in those six hours

[00:13:05] is what I'm going to give to the people

[00:13:08] and trust God for that.

[00:13:11] And then I don't know whether it's just a matter

[00:13:14] of getting older, not able to do the four o'clock in the mornings

[00:13:18] all the way through to, you know, the end of the day Sunday,

[00:13:22] especially when we have Sunday evening as well sometimes.

[00:13:25] Okay.

[00:13:25] You know, prep for that.

[00:13:27] So, you know, so over the years,

[00:13:29] that's gone to a Saturday morning,

[00:13:31] Saturday afternoon, Sunday morning.

[00:13:33] Yeah.

[00:13:34] And I think there's, the change in that has also meant

[00:13:37] that I've been able to go a little bit deeper for myself.

[00:13:41] Now, how I'm changing that again is that right now

[00:13:44] I'm trying to teach without notes.

[00:13:46] Are you just to keep things more difficult or?

[00:13:50] Or, or yeah, sorry.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:52] That's, yeah, sorry.

[00:13:53] That's an unwarranted slight.

[00:13:55] So forgive me.

[00:13:56] Well, the issue is, is that I would never do that

[00:13:58] if I was teaching something like Romans or, you know,

[00:14:01] second Peter.

[00:14:01] Sure.

[00:14:02] Okay.

[00:14:02] But right now I'm teaching Exodus.

[00:14:05] So I've got some long narratives.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:07] And I feel like I can take those long narratives,

[00:14:14] grapple with the main idea of the text

[00:14:17] and extrapolate what the main idea of the text is from the text.

[00:14:22] Without half an ago, this is my first point,

[00:14:25] second point, third point, fourth point

[00:14:27] and having to either remember that or refer to,

[00:14:29] so all I'm doing is teaching from the notes in my Bible.

[00:14:32] Okay.

[00:14:33] So whatever I can write in my Bible.

[00:14:34] Okay.

[00:14:34] So the same kind of idea that, you know,

[00:14:37] I'd get up before and teach whatever the Lord gives me

[00:14:40] in those six hours.

[00:14:41] This is whatever I can fit in the margins of my Bible.

[00:14:44] Okay.

[00:14:45] And there was a couple of reasons why I really wanted to do that

[00:14:50] in Exodus.

[00:14:51] I've taken this broad theme of Exodus,

[00:14:54] the God who is.

[00:14:56] Okay.

[00:14:56] So he's a self revealing God.

[00:14:58] But he's also something.

[00:14:59] He's, you know, he is the keeper of promises.

[00:15:01] He is the keeper of covenants.

[00:15:02] He is the God who hears the cries.

[00:15:04] He comes down to visit his people.

[00:15:06] All that.

[00:15:06] So we're taking one of those themes each week,

[00:15:09] the God who is.

[00:15:11] So I can get that main theme and just kind of relate

[00:15:15] that main theme.

[00:15:16] But I teach long.

[00:15:19] Do you?

[00:15:19] Okay.

[00:15:20] And I have struggled and struggled to teach.

[00:15:25] So every week, every week without fail,

[00:15:27] I'm like, I'm 45 minutes.

[00:15:29] I want to teach 45 minutes.

[00:15:33] And I've read the books.

[00:15:35] I've read the manuals, you know,

[00:15:36] the preaching script out your sermon.

[00:15:39] Yes.

[00:15:39] That way you know you're only going to teach for however long

[00:15:42] doesn't work.

[00:15:43] Okay.

[00:15:44] So I'm teaching an hour, hour and 10 every week.

[00:15:51] And that's normal.

[00:15:52] My people are super patient.

[00:15:55] Yeah, I bet.

[00:15:55] Because when I teach under they're like,

[00:15:58] why was I so sure?

[00:15:58] Really?

[00:15:59] So they're not like critical.

[00:16:00] They're not, oh that's too long.

[00:16:02] But for me, I want to be able to say everything I want to say

[00:16:04] in 45 minutes and aim for 45.

[00:16:08] And so I always, you know, in my mind at least I thought

[00:16:11] if I teach without notes, at some point I'm going to run out

[00:16:14] of things to say.

[00:16:16] Clearly that's not the case.

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:18] Well, okay.

[00:16:19] So your people like it.

[00:16:21] What about your kids ministry director?

[00:16:23] What about the Sunday School teachers?

[00:16:24] They're amazing.

[00:16:25] Oh yeah, really?

[00:16:26] Even was it last week, I taught for an hour and six.

[00:16:32] Wow.

[00:16:32] And the kids didn't come back in until we had finished the last

[00:16:37] song and were already on coffee.

[00:16:39] Yeah.

[00:16:40] So they study along with us.

[00:16:43] So we're, you know, we've just done Exodus 5 and 6.

[00:16:45] They did Exodus 5 and 6 on midweek life group meetings.

[00:16:49] They do Exodus 5 and 6.

[00:16:51] So as a church we're walking through this all together.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:53] And our kids ministry guys are like, they're wonderful.

[00:16:58] Oh, fantastic.

[00:16:59] Oh, you're a blessing man.

[00:17:01] Yeah, I am.

[00:17:03] Okay, that's fantastic.

[00:17:04] And you know, I've gotten an email from somebody, somebody like

[00:17:08] wrote in to say, hey, you know, love the podcast.

[00:17:10] It's great to hear about these teachers and preachers and how

[00:17:13] they're able to, you know, study for like 45 hours per

[00:17:16] on the message.

[00:17:17] And that's nice.

[00:17:19] But he's saying, you know, but I'm bivocational and most

[00:17:22] of my peers are as well.

[00:17:24] And, you know, because you try to seek out some people that

[00:17:27] don't have this like idyllic schedule where they're able to

[00:17:31] block out days upon days to prepare.

[00:17:33] And so, so what you're saying is your preparation starts

[00:17:37] on Saturday, ends on Sunday at 10 a.m.

[00:17:40] Yeah.

[00:17:42] I hear he's my, he's my big problem as well is that

[00:17:46] I'm so I'm a high school teacher.

[00:17:48] So I have, you know, everybody mentioned the holidays.

[00:17:51] Right.

[00:17:51] Okay.

[00:17:52] So when I'm not in school, yeah, I'm full time for the church.

[00:17:57] Then my issue is that if I sit down and study for anything,

[00:18:02] I'll take that whole time and study.

[00:18:04] And so I have to be mindful of my own.

[00:18:06] So I think it's a bit of a grace that God's given to me

[00:18:09] to actually limit my time because I will take all that

[00:18:12] time in trying to, in trying to study.

[00:18:16] One of the best things that ever, I think just was

[00:18:20] invented was the wide margin journaling Bible.

[00:18:24] Okay.

[00:18:24] Yes.

[00:18:25] Because I can work that into my schedule.

[00:18:28] Yeah, I'm looking for mine.

[00:18:29] It's in the other room.

[00:18:30] Yeah, I have one.

[00:18:31] Yeah.

[00:18:31] And then Crossway have just released a series of individual

[00:18:36] books.

[00:18:36] Oh, oh those ones.

[00:18:38] Yes.

[00:18:38] Yes.

[00:18:38] So they have the wide margin on one side and a blank

[00:18:40] page on the other.

[00:18:41] Yeah.

[00:18:43] And if you make one as well, it's a whole Bible like

[00:18:46] that.

[00:18:46] Yes, they do.

[00:18:47] It's like a page and then a blank page.

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:49] And they're amazing because, you know, as you're going,

[00:18:52] you can be jotting down what a text is saying.

[00:18:55] Yes.

[00:18:55] So you're not relying on a block of time.

[00:18:59] It's almost like a drip feed through the week.

[00:19:01] Now I'm still kind of grappling with that because

[00:19:04] I personally don't necessarily like the idea of

[00:19:08] only studying the Bible about what I'm going to

[00:19:11] teach.

[00:19:12] Sure.

[00:19:12] I want something else to study.

[00:19:14] But certainly those books and the journaling Bible

[00:19:22] are gold dust when it comes to having limited time.

[00:19:26] Okay.

[00:19:26] Yeah.

[00:19:27] So yeah, I really appreciate those.

[00:19:29] Yeah.

[00:19:29] Yeah.

[00:19:29] Well, do you have any more advice about people that

[00:19:32] have like less time?

[00:19:34] How do you focus?

[00:19:36] So my routine for study is what I'm using

[00:19:44] notes.

[00:19:45] I've used Brian Chapel.

[00:19:47] But certainly even when you are preaching without

[00:19:50] notes, are you writing down notes beforehand?

[00:19:54] Or are you just reading and thinking that's it?

[00:19:57] No, yeah.

[00:19:58] So I have, I will go through the text highlight

[00:20:00] and jot ideas down.

[00:20:04] The difficulty is when it comes to facts like

[00:20:06] places that you want to give some historical background

[00:20:08] on.

[00:20:09] That's really tricky.

[00:20:10] Yeah.

[00:20:10] But it's mainly, I've been through, I've been

[00:20:16] through Exeter.

[00:20:17] So I started studying Exodus for this current series

[00:20:21] in, where are we now?

[00:20:25] It's May 20.

[00:20:27] Yeah.

[00:20:28] So it was August last year.

[00:20:32] We had our Bible Institute, which is two or three

[00:20:36] days intensive on one book or theme.

[00:20:38] And so that was on Exodus, how some guys come in, teach

[00:20:42] different themes from Exodus and then inter-canonically

[00:20:46] through the rest of the Old Testament and New

[00:20:48] Testament and where they would end up.

[00:20:52] So I started studying Exodus probably June, July

[00:20:56] last year, ready to teach this year.

[00:20:59] So now I've started doing the same thing for

[00:21:01] Romans because I'm going to start teaching it

[00:21:03] Romans in January.

[00:21:03] Okay.

[00:21:05] So what I'll do is, I'll go for a book.

[00:21:09] My thing is blue highlight.

[00:21:13] This is just, I don't know, maybe I should have

[00:21:15] been a geography teacher or something.

[00:21:16] Blue highlight is everything that is related

[00:21:19] to the theme of the book.

[00:21:20] Okay.

[00:21:21] Green highlight is everything that's related

[00:21:22] to the section.

[00:21:24] Yes.

[00:21:24] Yellow and pink is everything that is just

[00:21:26] for me.

[00:21:27] That's good.

[00:21:27] That's just good.

[00:21:28] I just want to highlight.

[00:21:29] Yeah.

[00:21:30] The yellow and pink stuff rarely makes into a

[00:21:34] Sunday morning.

[00:21:35] Okay.

[00:21:35] Because I just feel like that's for me.

[00:21:39] Some of the stuff I want to share, but most of

[00:21:41] the time it's just for me.

[00:21:45] And so then I'll take, I think it's Brian

[00:21:49] Chappell's kind of falling condition focus

[00:21:51] and then the Pre-Pepes-Rosen statement

[00:21:54] and kind of highlight that, you know,

[00:21:58] make sure I've got that down.

[00:22:00] And I feel like if I can get that down,

[00:22:03] then everything after that is just

[00:22:06] explaining what the text says in that context.

[00:22:09] And that's all I do.

[00:22:11] And so I don't spend a huge many hours

[00:22:15] now studying.

[00:22:18] I have my Logos Spiable software,

[00:22:20] which I love.

[00:22:21] Yes.

[00:22:23] And I have my...

[00:22:24] I don't really understand it.

[00:22:25] I have it, but I don't really understand it.

[00:22:27] You and me both.

[00:22:28] It's a fancy copy and paste.

[00:22:30] Yeah, exactly.

[00:22:31] Exactly.

[00:22:31] What I use it for most of all is that,

[00:22:33] yeah, you can type it in and copy and paste it really quick.

[00:22:35] And then it's like this is several hundred-year-old.

[00:22:38] Yeah, exactly.

[00:22:39] I have it on my phone.

[00:22:40] Okay.

[00:22:41] So, you know, if I'm walking or I'm taking a break,

[00:22:44] I can highlight stuff and then it just syncs

[00:22:46] back to my computer, which is nice.

[00:22:49] Oh, that's handy.

[00:22:49] You can download your books and any commentaries

[00:22:52] that you want.

[00:22:52] Yeah.

[00:22:54] So, you know, I'm doing all of that as I go.

[00:22:58] But the bulk study now is done really on a Saturday afternoon.

[00:23:05] And then I'll finish anything Sunday morning.

[00:23:08] Okay, wonderful.

[00:23:08] Yes.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:10] Well, I'm a big fan of Sunday morning 4 a.m.

[00:23:14] It's like the most special time of the week,

[00:23:16] I think.

[00:23:17] So we're on the same time zone.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:19] So we're like...

[00:23:19] We should text each other.

[00:23:20] Actually, you probably don't want the focus.

[00:23:21] You probably want to focus.

[00:23:24] But yeah, so I have an earlier day where I get the bulk of my study done

[00:23:28] and then I try to kind of leave it for a few days

[00:23:29] and then pick it up almost fresh on Sunday morning at 4.

[00:23:36] So it's quite scattered and it might just be,

[00:23:38] you know, seven, eight pages of just text on the computer.

[00:23:43] And then from those hours, I kind of pray through it,

[00:23:45] think through it, finalize it,

[00:23:47] write the introduction and the conclusion at that point.

[00:23:53] Yeah, print the notes.

[00:23:55] The printer doesn't work.

[00:23:56] Panic.

[00:23:57] Because it's quite the narrow margin, isn't it?

[00:24:00] When it is Sunday morning and the sun comes up

[00:24:02] and it's like, oh, isn't that nice?

[00:24:05] Oh, Sunday's coming.

[00:24:06] Yeah.

[00:24:07] And you know what?

[00:24:08] I went through a phase,

[00:24:09] I don't know if you've done this,

[00:24:10] I went through a phase of printing my notes

[00:24:12] and then literally going to another room

[00:24:16] where there was nothing, no PC, just a kitchen table

[00:24:18] and then scrolling my notes and then going back to my computer.

[00:24:22] What do you mean scrolling?

[00:24:23] Like writing over, crossing stuff out, arrows back

[00:24:27] and editing it down so I can compact stuff

[00:24:30] because I'm typing as I think in.

[00:24:33] Yes, yeah.

[00:24:33] And I want to get rid of anything that's superfluous.

[00:24:36] Yes, that's right, yeah.

[00:24:36] And I find like, oh, I've repeated myself there

[00:24:39] or that has actually better fitted up here.

[00:24:44] So, you know, I went through this process

[00:24:45] of printing my notes out, then scrolling over them,

[00:24:50] typing them back up.

[00:24:52] And then I use Dropbox and my iPad.

[00:24:56] Oh yeah, yeah.

[00:24:57] So I don't print my notes out for teaching

[00:25:02] when I was using notes.

[00:25:03] So I just put them on my iPad.

[00:25:05] And I've only had two or three times

[00:25:09] where that technology has let me down.

[00:25:11] And it's let me down, big time when it has let me down.

[00:25:16] Like I've had to go home and re-upload my study.

[00:25:25] Yeah.

[00:25:25] You know, I only live five minutes around a corner

[00:25:28] so that works but sometimes you know,

[00:25:30] I've locked the computer before it's uploaded

[00:25:35] to Dropbox, before it's synced

[00:25:37] and so there's nothing there.

[00:25:40] Or, you know...

[00:25:41] And did you discover this like after the set of worship

[00:25:44] as you're about to step up?

[00:25:46] No, actually that time, the first time I found it

[00:25:51] as I was praying before service.

[00:25:53] Okay.

[00:25:54] And it was kind of like, you know, that lump in the throat moment

[00:25:58] where you're like, oh my goodness.

[00:26:01] And it's always potentially the most difficult text.

[00:26:04] The one that you probably feel like

[00:26:06] the most underprepared for has got some kind of nuance in there

[00:26:09] that you really have to explain because it, you know...

[00:26:13] And you've got this killer quote that really unlocks everything.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:18] Well, I had the analog version of that this past Sunday

[00:26:20] where, you know, I print my notes still

[00:26:22] and I have them on a clipboard.

[00:26:24] And I dropped my son off to Sunday school

[00:26:26] and then I walked down, I chatted with some people

[00:26:29] and then I sat down and then I got up

[00:26:31] and then I realized I don't know where my notes are.

[00:26:33] So to trace everything and to go back into Sunday school

[00:26:35] where my son's one and a half and he sees me

[00:26:38] and starts crying because, you know...

[00:26:40] I'm looking for my notes.

[00:26:41] And then I just placed them somewhere on that journey

[00:26:44] but I was like, you know, checking the wrap out

[00:26:45] through him again and everything.

[00:26:46] Yeah.

[00:26:47] Yeah, but yeah, found it.

[00:26:48] But it's a panicky feeling when it's like services...

[00:26:51] The call to worship is like in four minutes.

[00:26:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:54] I mean...

[00:26:54] And you can preach without notes but I can't.

[00:26:56] No, seriously, I would struggle if I found out

[00:26:59] halfway through my notes weren't there.

[00:27:01] Right.

[00:27:02] Like Joel Turner?

[00:27:04] Yeah, Canadian guy.

[00:27:06] Yeah.

[00:27:06] So he was preaching over here in Cornwall

[00:27:10] at the festival, at the Croatian festival

[00:27:13] and he told me he'd got up on stage, open his iPad

[00:27:16] and the first part of his notes were there

[00:27:18] so he's just preaching.

[00:27:19] Oh yeah, okay.

[00:27:20] And then the rest of it wasn't there

[00:27:23] and he just had to...

[00:27:24] He had literally, he was just, you know...

[00:27:26] he was making up.

[00:27:27] Now he was a former comedian

[00:27:29] so he had kind of the stage presence to pull that off.

[00:27:31] Yes.

[00:27:31] I would have been praying for a hole in the ground

[00:27:34] to just swallow me up.

[00:27:35] Did that happen at Creation Fest?

[00:27:37] At Creation Fest.

[00:27:38] Oh, because that's like a big crowd.

[00:27:39] It's a big crowd.

[00:27:40] Yeah, I mean there was a couple of thousand people there.

[00:27:43] And that goes on to that TV show as well.

[00:27:45] Live stream, you've got TV, the whole thing.

[00:27:46] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:47] Now I didn't notice.

[00:27:49] Right.

[00:27:49] Now they either tell...

[00:27:50] Well, he's a great communicator.

[00:27:53] Sure.

[00:27:53] And so whatever he was communicating

[00:27:56] impacted a lot of people anyway.

[00:27:58] Maybe, you know, that's the law just used that.

[00:28:00] Anyway, you know.

[00:28:00] Absolutely.

[00:28:01] So I think sometimes we can...

[00:28:03] I think I can have a overinflated view

[00:28:08] of my study time and my prep.

[00:28:10] Okay.

[00:28:11] And I think we should be studying.

[00:28:14] I think, you know, we should be good stewards.

[00:28:15] Yes.

[00:28:16] We have to be.

[00:28:17] But at the same time,

[00:28:19] I think when those moments happen

[00:28:22] that's when we really rely on the Holy Spirit.

[00:28:24] Right.

[00:28:25] Yeah.

[00:28:25] And I want to be...

[00:28:28] This is kind of the season where I'm in.

[00:28:29] I want to...

[00:28:30] I want the Word of God to be going through me

[00:28:35] as much as I'm going through the Word of God.

[00:28:37] Okay.

[00:28:37] What do you...

[00:28:38] What does that mean?

[00:28:38] Like, I want it to incubate for a little while.

[00:28:40] Okay.

[00:28:40] Yeah.

[00:28:41] You know?

[00:28:42] So I want to know...

[00:28:43] I want to know what the text says for me

[00:28:45] before I know what it says for someone else

[00:28:47] and let it kind of narrate.

[00:28:48] So you want those, like, those kind of pink

[00:28:50] and yellow highlights to be real in your heart

[00:28:52] before you go through the blue and green

[00:28:54] for everybody else.

[00:28:54] Absolutely.

[00:28:55] Absolutely.

[00:28:55] Okay.

[00:28:56] And I think that's important.

[00:28:57] Yeah.

[00:28:58] Because I think, you know,

[00:29:00] if I struggle with some of the implications

[00:29:02] of the text and implications of how the gospel

[00:29:04] is working out from that text,

[00:29:06] you can bet it's other people

[00:29:07] who are going to be struggling with that, too.

[00:29:09] Yeah.

[00:29:11] And I think we should struggle.

[00:29:12] We should wrestle with it.

[00:29:13] Yeah.

[00:29:13] We should live in that tension.

[00:29:15] Yeah.

[00:29:15] Well, I got a comment

[00:29:17] and then maybe a final question.

[00:29:18] Sure.

[00:29:18] So the comment is just like...

[00:29:20] You mentioned with Joel and then yourself,

[00:29:23] you know, the notes disappear

[00:29:25] and then that's like,

[00:29:26] oh, we got to trust the Holy Spirit.

[00:29:28] Is there a way we could just trust the Holy Spirit

[00:29:30] with our notes?

[00:29:31] Or is there a way that it doesn't have to be this?

[00:29:33] And this is obviously more for myself,

[00:29:35] but like, you know, why is it the crisis?

[00:29:37] It's like, oh, well,

[00:29:37] yeah, Holy Spirit,

[00:29:39] I really got to lead on you for this one.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] And I think for me,

[00:29:42] it's just that pride element.

[00:29:44] It's just that you can do with your notes

[00:29:48] and God ordains your notes.

[00:29:49] Absolutely.

[00:29:50] The Holy Spirit is working through your prep time.

[00:29:53] But I think there's sometimes that He will use moments,

[00:29:59] not so that the Word of God is more effective,

[00:30:03] but it's more effective in a different way for you

[00:30:06] as the preacher.

[00:30:08] I don't know.

[00:30:09] I've probably taught too many sermons

[00:30:13] where I felt that it's a scattering

[00:30:19] and it's a scattering onto Stony ground.

[00:30:21] Right.

[00:30:23] And I want to be reminded

[00:30:27] that God is in that scattering

[00:30:30] and it's up to the seed and the soil

[00:30:34] as to how the seed is taken up by the soil,

[00:30:37] not the sower.

[00:30:40] And I just need to be reminded that actually

[00:30:42] it's the Lord that is sowing the seed.

[00:30:46] I can prep as much as I like.

[00:30:48] I can not have prep as much as I like,

[00:30:51] because as the other,

[00:30:52] I can not prep and then come across arrogant

[00:30:56] and say, well, I've got this.

[00:30:58] Well, there's that balance.

[00:31:00] And so I'm only doing this for a season without notes

[00:31:03] because I just know my own heart will be kind of like,

[00:31:05] oh, you don't need to see.

[00:31:08] January is coming.

[00:31:09] Romans one.

[00:31:10] Exactly.

[00:31:11] There's no way.

[00:31:11] There's no way I can do Romans without studying

[00:31:13] without prep.

[00:31:15] The final question then.

[00:31:17] So you mentioned just a few minutes ago about like the

[00:31:19] the centrality of the gospel coming through.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] Like what do you mean by that?

[00:31:23] And yeah, like,

[00:31:24] certainly you don't mean the gospel in Exodus, right?

[00:31:27] Yeah, for sure.

[00:31:28] What?

[00:31:29] So like, tell us more.

[00:31:31] So look, so there's this,

[00:31:32] there's a strangest, strangest story in Exodus

[00:31:39] where Moses is being called back to Egypt.

[00:31:45] And God says, go out and meet Aaron, your brother.

[00:31:48] And so he takes Zipporah and his kids and he's walking

[00:31:53] and the text says that the Lord met Moses

[00:31:56] and sought to kill him.

[00:31:58] Yeah.

[00:31:59] Right?

[00:31:59] And you're kind of like, what?

[00:32:01] Wait, how does...

[00:32:02] Yeah.

[00:32:03] Why is that even there?

[00:32:04] And so then it says,

[00:32:05] Zipporah took his son Gershom,

[00:32:10] circumcised him.

[00:32:11] And if that's not enough,

[00:32:13] took the blood and wiped on his feet.

[00:32:16] And then fathered a bridegroom of blood.

[00:32:19] Yeah.

[00:32:20] And so why on earth?

[00:32:24] So, you know, of course,

[00:32:25] you know, that text is talking about the Lord met Moses

[00:32:28] and sought to kill Gershom rather than Moses.

[00:32:33] And that covering of blood was that precursor

[00:32:37] to the covering of blood for the Passover

[00:32:40] and ultimately covering your blood for the cross.

[00:32:42] Okay.

[00:32:44] So you see these kind of types of shadows?

[00:32:46] Yes.

[00:32:46] But I was just chatting with someone about this today.

[00:32:49] Yeah.

[00:32:50] Is that, I mean, I don't know about you,

[00:32:51] but I was raised in church thinking and I was led to...

[00:32:56] You know, I just came out believing that

[00:32:59] if you really want God to kind of accept you

[00:33:03] and approve you,

[00:33:04] well, you have to be like David

[00:33:05] or you have to be like Daniel

[00:33:06] or you have to be, you know...

[00:33:08] And so, you know, you read the story of Daniel

[00:33:10] and the lion's den, right?

[00:33:11] Right.

[00:33:11] And well, you have to be strong

[00:33:15] and you have to pray a few times a day.

[00:33:16] You have to be like Daniel.

[00:33:17] Dare to be Daniel.

[00:33:18] Exactly.

[00:33:19] Yes.

[00:33:21] And yet that's not what the Bible is saying.

[00:33:23] The Bible is saying that even as an 80-year-old man

[00:33:28] he could look back on his history

[00:33:30] and it wasn't about how faithful Daniel was.

[00:33:33] It was about how much faith he had in a faithful God

[00:33:38] for all of those years.

[00:33:41] And that's the gospel.

[00:33:43] It's about being, you know,

[00:33:46] theocentric.

[00:33:46] It's all about God first and then our response.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:51] Not what we can do to get God's approval.

[00:33:55] And the great story is that

[00:33:58] we don't gain God's approval.

[00:34:01] Jesus has gained his approval

[00:34:02] and he invites us in to walk in that.

[00:34:05] Yeah.

[00:34:05] And that's the gospel.

[00:34:07] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:34:08] Yeah, thanks.

[00:34:09] And I was being sarcastic just so you know.

[00:34:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:34:13] And Exodus, you know, Exodus is wonderful

[00:34:16] because it's, isn't the gospel about this massive cosmic battle

[00:34:21] if you like, between Satan and God?

[00:34:26] And it's about, you know, God's word versus Satan's word,

[00:34:31] which is the Garden of Eden.

[00:34:33] How Satan deceived man.

[00:34:35] And, you know, God shows up in Exodus and says,

[00:34:41] I am that I am.

[00:34:42] This is my name.

[00:34:43] Thus says the Lord.

[00:34:45] And then all the way through Pharaoh says,

[00:34:46] well, who is the Lord that I should serve him?

[00:34:48] Yeah.

[00:34:48] And God says, well, I am the Lord.

[00:34:50] And God says, thus set the Lord in Pharaoh says,

[00:34:52] thus says Pharaoh.

[00:34:54] And you've got this argument all the way through Exodus

[00:34:56] and it ends up in Matthew chapter four in the wilderness.

[00:35:00] Yeah, that's the word.

[00:35:01] Potentially the same wilderness.

[00:35:02] Okay.

[00:35:03] That Jesus and Satan are in and Satan goes, thus set.

[00:35:07] And Jesus says, no, thus set the Lord.

[00:35:08] Wow.

[00:35:09] And you've got this battle all the way through.

[00:35:11] Yeah.

[00:35:11] And so the whole thing, you know, it doesn't,

[00:35:15] it doesn't end at the cross, it ends at the empty tomb

[00:35:18] and then Jesus comes back.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:20] And, you know, I think that if you can lead people

[00:35:24] to that point, that's the goal of preaching.

[00:35:28] Absolutely.

[00:35:28] Yeah.

[00:35:29] It's a lifting thing.

[00:35:30] I'm personally, I'm happy right now.

[00:35:32] I've got a smile on my face just thinking through these connections

[00:35:36] and, you know, I know the story, you know?

[00:35:38] I'm just hearing it.

[00:35:38] I'm just like, yeah, praise the Lord, you know?

[00:35:41] And so why would we deny that to our people?

[00:35:43] Absolutely.

[00:35:44] Why would we rob them from a chance to just like worship

[00:35:46] in on the spot in their seats, just hearing the good news,

[00:35:50] you know, that the Israelites are going to go into the,

[00:35:54] the wilderness, they're going to be tempted,

[00:35:56] they're going to fail again and again.

[00:35:58] But I know somebody in that wilderness who was tempted

[00:36:00] again and again, but yet was faithful on your behalf.

[00:36:04] You know, he crossed through the door, you know, all these

[00:36:05] things like it could just cause people to be so excited.

[00:36:08] But if all they get is, you know, you need to stop grumbling,

[00:36:11] just knock it off, quit grumbling.

[00:36:13] That's just another, another brick in the backpack.

[00:36:16] Yes it is.

[00:36:16] As Brian Chapel says.

[00:36:17] So, yeah.

[00:36:18] Well, thanks so much for your time.

[00:36:19] Thanks for having me.

[00:36:20] I really appreciate that.

[00:36:20] And how can we listen to your teachings?

[00:36:23] Where are they?

[00:36:23] So, Calvary Sotten, which is short for Southampton,

[00:36:27] CalvarySotten.co.uk.

[00:36:29] And we have a podcast.

[00:36:30] You can just search for that on my channel.

[00:36:32] All right.

[00:36:33] Awesome.

[00:36:33] Thanks so much.

[00:36:34] Thanks.

[00:36:35] All right.

[00:36:36] Well, thanks for listening all the way to the end.

[00:36:38] I think by now you've probably set the alarm on your

[00:36:41] phone for 4 a.m.

[00:36:43] And you're going to give it a shot, right?

[00:36:45] Well, whether you wake up early or not and however

[00:36:48] your biological clock and your comfort levels are,

[00:36:52] I hope that this conversation and all the videotech

[00:36:55] expositors collective helps you to grow in your

[00:36:58] personal study and public proclamation of God's word.